This is Chris Young, co-author of Modernist Cuisine. I'd like to invite you to check out Chefsteps.com. It's a free website we've created as a place to learn new cooking techniques and collaborate with curious cooks from around the world. Sign up now at ChefSteps.com. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network.org, a nonprofit member supported radio station.
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Become a member and support us while receiving the newsletters, advanced invites, special discounts, and a membership card. We need your support. Visit our website and click the donate button to become a member today. Thank you for believing in us and enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues.
This is Dave Moran, your host of Cooking News coming to live from Roberta's Pizzeria on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245. Joining the studio today with this dash of the hammer lopez. Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. How are you doing, guys? Good, man.
I had to switch up the theme music this week. Yeah, I noticed that. But like it's like, you know, you'll people they'll not only is Nastasha like to keep me on her toes, but uh Jack and Joe in the engineering booth like to keep me on my toes. Cause yeah, you're ready for one, you get the other. That's how the life goes.
Call in your questions to 7184972128. That's 7184972128. Before I get started, uh, you know, in the audience you probably won't care, but here in the studio you'll enjoy this. So guess why I was late today. I was actually slaved to be on time today, guess.
I don't know. Well, it wasn't the train, because you rode a bike. That's right. I don't know. Bike ticket!
Woo! Oh man, really? Yeah, yeah. Big ol' bike ticket. What?
Well, I was trying to. So, believe this or not, but you probably won't. Like, I normally take a route that the but the bike, the bike program on the computer tells me to go from my house to the studio. And there's one really unsafe intersection. So they didn't attempt to go around, not use that intersection.
I went down another place and went down like for like half a block, which is my maximum. In Manhattan or Brooklyn. A one way street. And the cops are like, woo and hit me with a and they're getting smarter because they no longer hand out uh motor vehicle tickets to bikes, which is what they used to do. So any biker could just go to court and say, yo, Yana, I was on a bike.
A bike is not a motor vehicle, sorry. And then like, you know what I mean? And that was it. But they have a new kind of summons, but here's where they get you. I can't pay by mail.
I have to physically go to court. Well, you can go online and plead not guilty, right? No. Nah. What?
No. No. This is new kind of ticket. They're trying to shaft bikers into actually having to go to court, like none of us work or anything. Hey, look, I was breaking the traffic regulations, like, great.
Although it's a little bit of an insult to uh have a ticket for the privilege of riding these Brooklyn roads, as uh as Neil Diamond would say, which by the way, much as I don't hate Brooklyn the way Nastache hates, I have I I think Brooklyn's fine. The worst roads that I have seen on the east coast of the United States. You agree with me, Jack? Joe? Yeah, uh yeah, I do.
Yeah, I mean, especially in the bike lane where we're forced to drive, it's like imagine if amusement park rides weren't fun. Imagine like the biggest moguls you've ever seen skiing, and those are that is Bushwick people. That's what that's what it's like. I drive a car and I basically have to get new brakes every like you know six, seven months or something. It's yeah, yeah, and all the cars trying to avoid the potholes and try not to bottom and scrape their stuff out.
Nothing more fun for them than to run into a biker who's trying to go next to them at you know in their in their normal spot. You know what I'm saying? So I'm pr and I'm proud to have my money, my ticket penalty money go towards supporting the awesome roads of Brooklyn. All right. Let's start off with some, hey, look, my fault though, right?
So my usual trick of just, you know, being extremely honest about what I was doing, and nice of the officers didn't work on this one. These guys are there to hand out freaking tickets. They're on an anti-bike. The guy literally said, if you want to break the law, get off the bike and walk across. I wouldn't have given you the ticket.
I'm like, What? Wow. What? Okay. Okay.
This is not a show about biking. Okay. Here are some uh questions in from before. Uh Tom Fisher wrote in last week. I tried making sous vide creme en glaze using this uh method on your site.
That would be cookingissues.com. Uh everything went fine until I tried to bag the mixture. It seems like the blending incorporated far too much air into the mix. And the first time I tried to bag the mix, it quickly doubled in volume and made a huge mess. Before I get going, let me just tell you what the procedure is, right?
So people know what the hell I'm talking about. So when we make uh, you know, when you make your normal creme en glaze, you know, you're careful, you stir it, you don't get any air into it, you temper the egg yolks, blah blah blah. When you're making it uh sous vide uh or low temp, what you do is you you throw uh I'll give you my recipe, you throw 10 egg yolks into uh a blender, you throw 170 grams of sugar in there, a little bit of salt, uh whatever flavorings you might want to add. You don't have to add the things like vanilla later because they're gonna be in a bag and they won't volatilize off. Then you're gonna add 500 mils of uh milk and 500 mils of uh heavy cream.
And actually, what I do is I add the milk. I don't add the cream in the blender step, I add the milk, turn on the blender on high, blends it, it does aerate it, which is the source of the one of the sources of the problem with uh Tom's uh English mixture here. Uh and but uh it also breaks up the alaza on the egg yolks so that you don't need to uh strain your creme en glaze after. The two big advantages of well, the three big advantages, well, some of the big advantages of doing uh um creme en glaze, uh low temperature or sous vide are one, if you use the blender, you don't need to strain it because one, there's no alaza in it, and two, when you're cooking low temperature, you're never gonna curdle it. So there's no little curdles of egg yolk that you need to strain out, right?
So you get rid of that whole straining nonsense. That's one big advantage. Two, uh flavors are preserved uh very well in the bag, and certain flavors like cinnamon, uh it's really easy to get that awesome kind of red hot cinnamon flavor. You like red hot spice though? Yeah, see?
Something she likes. See, I know the secret things that she likes, like red hot. Uh so I could have won that pork chop or whatever it is we gave away. Uh so anyway, uh so it gives you that uh red hot thing because the vacuum intensifies the extraction of flavor out of spices like that, uh cinnamon. And uh another advantage is it's extremely hygienic, right?
Because you don't need to pour it into something and then cool it very quickly. You can just take the bag, put the bag in ice water, chill it down, and three, because uh you've killed all the vegetative cells in it when the cooking, right? You haven't sterilized it, so it's not safe, uh, you know, uh not refrigerated, but it lasts an extremely long time. So these are some of the benefits. However, uh, so what I do is I blend the milk, the egg yolks, the sugar, the salt, and maybe the flavoring.
Then I add the cream and just put the blender on low to stir it to combine because you don't want to froth it up too much because that's stuff you have to get rid of later. Now, to finish the rest of his question, so remember, he has uh Tom was having problems if it was blowing up and making a huge mess, which is true, right? Uh okay, after cleaning, sorry, Tom, that cleaning sucks. Cleaning creme en glaze, make sure out of the bottom of your vacuum machine sucks. Really sucks.
Uh after cleaning, I moved the mix to a hotel pan and tried to de-aerate it in the vacuum sealer. But even after many cycles, the mix still had a frothy, bubbly texture. That's true. I eventually bagged it in Ziplocks and circulated the mix and it came out fine. Where did I go wrong?
Thanks, Tom Fisher. Okay, here a couple of things. One, creme glaze bubbles like a weasel, and there's just no way around that, right? If you are going to deerate in a pan beforehand, which I don't, by the way, but if you are going to do it, you have to start with extremely thin mixtures in the hot uh when I say thin thickness, not like thin consistency, uh mixtures in the hotel pan, like like a couple of milliliters and do it in four batches. Then you can get a full rise, bubble pop, drop, and boil out of a creme glaze in a vacuum machine.
Not a heat boil. I don't want to hear anyone talk to me about heat boils, not a heat boil, it's just a vacuum boil. Uh, and you can do it. However, uh, what I s like what I normally do is I remove all of the plastic thingamajig, like things that look like cutting boards, the spacers, take them all out. Do not use a bagging attachment.
This is worthless. Do it in a normal, like uh like 10 or 12 inch wide vacuum bag, uh, I guess 10, I think 10. Uh, only put half a liter of product into it. Or, you know, like basically if you make the liter batch with 10 egg yolks and 170 uh grams more than a liter, half in each bag, right? Put the bag over the edge of the uh vacuum machine and then cut a hole in between the seal bar and the edge of the machine to let the air come out.
This way you have the maximum expansion room in the bag before the mixture starts boiling out all over the vacuum machine. It gives you the maximum space for it to inflate, right? Then drop the lid. Oh, the other thing, I'm sure your mix wasn't cold enough. It's vitally important that you use cold, cold, cold uh egg yolks, cold, cold, cold milk, cold, cold, cold cream.
The sugar is never cold usually unless you do your mise en place beforehand and throw it in the fridge for a while, but very few people do that unless you're working for demos. So sometimes when I'm doing demos, I'm fortunate enough to be able to have the uh sugar be cold like that. But you've already aerated it in the vacuum machine, so even though it's cold, it's gonna want to boil over a lot. So what you do is you close it and then you wait. Keep your finger on the stop button.
Just keep your finger there. Do not take your finger off. It's gonna start sucking a vacuum, right? And then all of a sudden it's gonna start boiling up a little bit, and you're like, oh, I'm okay, right? It's okay, no problem.
And then boom, it's gonna make a run for the border and start spraying up out of the back. At that instant, right before the mixture hits the seal bar, boom, hit stop. Boom. As soon as you hit stop, the seal bar stops, seals it, and stops any more of the egg mixture from coming out, right? Now, you haven't getting rid of all of the air in there, so it will get some flotation in your in your bath, which is why you should weigh it down and crush it down.
But it's good enough. And it gets rid of uh, and then the further cooking is gonna pop the rest of those air bubbles, and so you do not have a frothy mixture when you're done, right? You simply don't. Now, if you do pack your stuff in a zippy, right? I've noticed that it tends it cooks, it's fine, and you don't have as many problems with uh, you know, with the overflow, like you say, but there are a couple of other unintended consequences.
First, there's more, you're not getting hardly any air out from the blending step when you do it in a zippy. So, what you're gonna have to do is let it sit for a while for the air to kind of like come to the surface and then kind of re-get that air out in the zippy before you cook. One. Two, uh, in side-by-side taste tests, I've noticed that uh creme anglaise, not so with it with that's been put in a blender, one, and it's cooked in a zippy without using a vacuum, has more of a cooked egg flavor, more of a sulphurous cooked egg flavor, than uh creme anglaise cooked in a vacuum bag. That's just been our experience.
We've tasted it side by side. It's not that it's bad, it's that if you taste it side by side, you would always choose the one that in a vacuum bag. And uh was there another thing? Oh, last but not least, vacuum bags are extrem, I mean uh sorry, zippies are extremely uh fragile at creme anglaise temperatures, and they feel really, really flimsy. Now, uh this is gonna dovetail into uh what uh John Riper wrote in to us a couple weeks ago, but I haven't had a chance to read yet.
Uh there's no safety issue as far as SC Johnson Wax uh uh a family company is concerned, but uh there is uh a possibility of structural failure. Okay? So there you have it. Now on to uh John Riper, who sent us the uh the awesome uh Ducili uh Filberts slat you know, Filberts a hazelnut, right? You like those suckers, right?
They look like wood, they're kind of awesome. I'm gonna talk about those more in depth. Uh John sent me on a little bit of a native nutcake. I'm on a kind of a, even though they're not native, with a name like Duchili, how's that gonna be native anyway? But they're important, but whatever, they're old, they're heritage varieties.
Uh, but I became interested very recently in hickory nuts, shag bark, shell bark, hickory nuts, and also butternuts, which is a white walnut, you know what I mean? Anyway, so interested in that stuff. Uh you can't get butternuts uh this time of year. Anyone that had them is sold out, and the supply is extremely rare because all the white walnut trees are dying because of uh well, because they're dying from disease. It's kind of a horrible story.
But uh uh I I do have some, even though it's also very hard to get hickory nuts at this point, I'm getting some hickory nuts in, so we'll test those, we'll play around with some native nuts, and then we'll talk about it. Yeah? Sure. You excited about the hickory nuts? No.
Ah man, how could you not be excited about the hickory nuts? It's like it's like the hickory nut is supposed to be as good as the pecan, like as good as the pecan. Like some people say even better than the pecan, and yet nobody uses it anymore because it's more difficult to harvest and they're more difficult to crack. It's like it's like we you know, I've grown up my whole life thinking that Southerners have a lock on native nuts, the pecan being, you know, fundamentally a gift from heaven. And here I find out later that us northerners also have a you know a a godlike gift from heaven nut, the the the Shag Bark Hickory.
And and and I'm 42 freaking years old and I never had one. Is there any justice in that? No. No, none. No, no, no.
Okay, my my iPad decided that it didn't want to work. Okay, there we go. Uh so anyway, so John wrote in, uh, not about the nuts. Uh he said, I've been meaning to write the attached letter. He wrote it, he wrote an attached letter, which I don't have here, uh, to SC Johnson ever since Dave shared their email about safe cooking with Ziploc bags a few weeks ago.
In my experience, it's pretty rare for big corporations to go out on a limb over much of anything, so it's worth applauding when they do. More useful though is the chance they'd throw some sponsor support your way. So you hear that, S. E Johnson's they're not, they they don't listen, they don't know, they don't care. But I I am uh glad that they did write us that email saying that zippies were okay to use, and I haven't got any pushback from that.
Have we had any emails saying that we're bad people? No. Because of that? I mean, we've had emails saying we're bad people, but not because of that, right? Right.
Okay. Adam wrote in last week uh about gluten. Gluten. I like that word. You like that word?
Gluten. Uh Dave, Nastasha, etc. Hey guys, you're et cetera today. They're not they're not happy and they're they're they're glum in the other room. Okay.
Uh I've been thinking how gluten is composed of two separate protein types, glutenin and gliadin. And I'll uh I think I think it's gliadin, not gliden, gliadin. Gliadin. Uh I wonder, is it possible to make a wheat-free? I like saying wheat with a wheat like married.
Yeah, wheat. Anyway, is it possible to make a wheat-free loaf of bread that behaved like regular wheat bread by combining flours containing these separate gluten components? Wheat flour uh is typically 11 to 13% protein, 80% of which is gluten, and uh gluten is about a one-to-one ratio between glutenin and gliadin. I guess you know it depends. Everything depends.
But anyway, uh, can I duplicate these conditions without wheat flour? I've not been able to find a detailed list of flours and their gluten and gliadin fractions. There are gluten-free websites that list gliadin-containing grains, since gliadin is the primary issue in celiac disease, but these sites do not post hard numbers. I have not found references for a good source of glutenin. Uh would this approach to constructing a loaf of bread work?
For example, while rye flour contains gluten, pentasins, pentasins are uh uh five carbon sugars. Uh, you know, the polymers of five carbon sugars. Okay. Pentasans are present that prevent the gluten from forming effectively. My alternative flour combinations have similar negative interactions.
The bakery network website, WW that big the bakery network.com, describes how to isolate gluten from flour and then separate the glutenin and gliadin by rinsing with alcohol. Perhaps an alternative approach would be to mix isolated glutenin into a dough made of gliadin-rich flour with the protein relax and reincorporate into a dough. Thanks for your thoughts. Adam. Okay.
Uh first of all, I mean, clearly this approach would not help. Uh clearly this approach would not help if someone actually had celiac disease because they can't have the gluten regardless of where it comes from, right? Duh. Uh but uh the question is, is there some source of just straight glutenin? Uh not not that I not that I know of.
And I wouldn't necessarily see the, I wouldn't necessarily see the point of uh getting something that's high in gliadin and then adding just uh glutenin when you could just buy vital wheat gluten at the store, you know, and add the vital wheat gluten to uh your bread mix and increase the protein component. Now, as for pentasans, but you know, the what pentasans uh are interesting, um I think you can add enzymes that break them break them down somewhat, and I think there are some enzymes that break them down naturally to kind of reduce the viscosity over time. But they they seem to uh reduce the uh ability of gluten networks to form in two different ways. One, they actually interfere with uh the the interaction between the uh the polymers that are formed when you hydrate uh the gluten, right? And secondly, they increase the viscosity of the water matrix within it and therefore make it difficult more difficult for the gluten to hydrate.
So they have a two-step thing. They are actually inhibiting the formation of the network uh, you know, on a molecular level and increasing the viscosity, making less of the water available to the gluten to hydrate. So that's what the pentasans are doing. Now, my presumption is that by doping up to a certain level with vital wheat gluten, which I used to do all the time in low protein flours, just dope it with vital wheat gluten, um, you can ameliorate some of these effects. But I don't know that you're going to be able to make entirely wheat-free, i.e., from no wheat products, including no wheat gluten stuff that has gluten in it.
Uh on a separate note that's interesting, uh pentacans, I don't know, I haven't read any human studies, but uh people are very worried about feeding um high pentasin grains to animals uh because they can lower the feed conversion ratio uh because what happens is is the same thing that happens in the in the dough, the pentasan's increase the viscosity, happens in your gut because they don't get broken down uh right away, and so this increased viscosity can lead to a lower absorption of certain nutrients in uh chickens, for instance, that are fed grains high in pentasins. Uh if you want, you can read the article. Increased small intestinal fermentation is partly responsible for the anti-nutritive activity of non starch palysaccharides in chickens. You can go read that if that's the kind of crap you like to read. Which I guess I am.
I guess that's me. Yeah, on a side note, uh, I was looking through and I saw Time magazine a couple of months ago came out with an article saying, you know, how twenty check this out, Stuff gonna believe this. Twenty-eight percent of people in the US said to the Time magazine people, or something like close to twenty-eight percent, said that they were trying to reduce the amount of gluten in their diet. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's crazy. So, what's happened is is that the gluten free market has freaking exploded. Like it's like it's a multi-cajillion dollar industry, because uh all of these people who are like, well, there's some people who are allergic to it, so maybe if I just don't have it too, it's gonna be better for me, even though I'm not allergic to it, even though it does no harm to me at all, even though it does nothing but make my bread delicious. It's new organic. Yeah, but it makes no, it makes no dang it's makes no dang sense.
But you know what? Good. Here's two things. Good, good, good, good. Like, make a buck.
You know what I mean? If you're gonna if you're gluten freak, so like Piper, who works with us, I'm gonna call him out here. Piper who works with us, he's the uh Booker and Dax lab manager there. He's been on the show once or twice, right? Is that true?
Uh Piper is celiac. He's legit, you know what I mean? Like the man can't have gluten. In fact, he like muscles through it like when he took his test at the French culinary, it ate all the gluten, got the huge rash and all this other stuff, and you know, the horrible problems, right? So he's legitimately gluten free, and so and there is a huge rise in actual cases, or so it's reported to me, of people uh, you know, with actual intolerance to gluten.
And so if twenty-eight percent of uh the people around there are sheep and believe this craziness that they should get rid of gluten too, even though it has no effect on them, then I say God bless them, because it means that there's more people pouring money into problems that are gonna help out actual people with problems like Piper, right? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Oh, speaking of gluten-free flowers, uh in Africa, did I already talk about this?
In Africa, they have a type of millet called phonio. Did I talk about this, Jack or Joe? Not that I can remember. Yeah. So uh there's an increased uh interest in kind of the lost crops of Africa, and there's a bunch of different peop reasons people are interested.
Me, taste, right? Uh people in Africa, economics, uh three, I don't know, I guess those are the main ones, right? Economic well, it's economics, politics, uh, ecology, um, you know, soil use, the, you know, uh and and you know, taste. Uh and a lot of the uh, you know, uh like crops that are originally from that area are different species of millet. Millet is not a single uh type of grain in the way that uh you know, wheat is.
There are a bunch of different grass families with small seeds uh that are called millet. Uh and you know, they're they're they're combined care their their characteristic that they share is that they're all members of the grass family and that they all have extremely small seeds. So uh a lot of these are very high in, you know, the ones that they use, the small millet, the large millet, and this tiny, tiny, tiny one that's known in Senegal as phonio with an F, uh, are very high in proteins, but apparently not uh gluten and gliadin. So they can be consumed by uh gluten-free uh folk. Now, phonio, I had a loaf of bread in Senegal that was composed, they said, it could just be lying, right?
Could just be lying, but they said it was 80% phonio and only 20% wheat, but the texture was like a hundred percent wheat bread. So maybe there's some good uh ideas there for gluten-free people with phonio. If anyone has any experimentation uh that they can send in that they've experimented, I would love to hear about it. I hear that long fermentation times uh make for better millet-based doughs, but I haven't done any research yet. I did bring some back, but haven't had time to play with play with it.
I've also heard that Thomas Keller's $15 a pound exclamation point, exclamation point gluten-free flour is pretty good, but I would bet not for bread, I bet for pasta. That's what Mark uh Ladner uses at Del Posta, right? He uses Thomas Keller's fantastically expensive flour. Yes. And he likes it, right?
We I tasted it. Were you there when I was there? Yes. Yeah. Uh yeah, yeah, I tasted it.
It was good. I mean, look, is it as good as the no side by side? He gives you the one with the gluten, and you're like, that take the gluten. But like, it was pretty good, right? Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it better because they cooked it better, better than a lot of normal people's real, well, real, gluten full pasta that was, right? Yeah. What am I with my Yoda? You hear how I put that sentence together?
No damn sense. All right. Uh Mark Jensen. Should we take a break? Yeah.
Yeah, that's great. All right, let's go to our first commercial break cooking issues. This is Chris Young, co-author of Modernist Cuisine. Together with photographer Ryan Matthew Smith and Chef Grant Krilly, we've created something exciting and new at Chefsteps.com. Each day in our kitchen at Seattle's Pike Place Market, we're working on new recipes, as well as updating classic ones that we love.
And we're always looking for new techniques that make the impossible possible. At chefsteps.com, we publish it all online with detailed step-by-step demonstrations, as well as explanations of the science that answers the why behind the how in the kitchen. And through our forum, you can engage with our team as well as a friendly community of curious cooks from around the world. If you're interested in becoming a better cook, if you want more from the creative team behind modernist cuisine, and if, like us, you're a fan of Dave Arnold in cooking issues, then we think there's a lot you'll like. And the best part, Chef Steps.com is entirely free to learn.
I love that they say they're a fan of cooking issues in that ad. That's quite nice of them. Well, you know, we had the we had the Chris Young uh last week on the show, and we're put in the awkward position of having to cut Chris Young off to play a Chris Young promo. First time it's ever happened. Yeah, yeah.
That was good. You know, uh, you know who does their see here's what here's something you gotta like about the Chef Steps. I mean, look, there are sponsors, so you know, but still true. Here's the nice thing that even the people who do you know who does their web work? Oh.
Michael Natkin. Really? Yeah, he does their web and software. That's right, I was in touch with him. And so, like, you know, even the person like doing the web work is like a louded and loved food figure.
It's great. You know what I'm saying? It's a good community you got coming here. Yeah. Speaking of community, can I do a quick pitch?
Yeah, sure. Still membership drive. May is almost over. And uh if if any listener becomes a member by the end of this show, I'm gonna go ahead and title the episode their name. Oh wow.
Whoa. So, you know, act now. This is but this is like re a real act now, not like where you call in and you get five sham wows for the price of one or something like that. No, no, it's not like that. Okay.
Uh, but uh That's Heritage Radio Network.org and click the donate button on the right side right there. Can you put a shamwow button there? We can sell shamwals off that thing? Take a slide. I wish I had sham.
You know, if anyone's listening and wants to send us some shamwows so we could use them over here. Here's something I it's not mine to give, to give or to say we should have a contest for it, but there is an awesome pair of cowhair chaps in the studio that I've tried to steal like three times. Maybe that should be like a like a thing once. I think we should make shamwows that have the logo, the cooking issues logo on them. That'll be sweet.
And then if you call in and become member. You get some cooking issue shamways? Yeah, exactly. No, it'd be awesome. Well, back to the chef steps for a second.
You know who I haven't really spent a lot of time hanging around with from Chef Steps is Grant. He's like, you know, Grant and Chris. Grant, apparently, huge badass. Awesome guy. I mean, I met him a couple times uh at the when Modernist Food was doing their like uh tour de cuisine around the around the country and in the in the Seattle.
But uh apparently just like a monster cook. That's what I hear. Anyway. Okay. Uh by the way, still time to call new questions.
Dude, 718497, 2128, that's 7184972128. Mark Jensen writes in regarding eggs. Mark Jensen here, fork in the road mobile galley. You know, I'm gonna have to have galley kitchen in my next uh apartment. It's kind of depressing.
I don't like galley. You like galley kitchens? It's okay. I mean, because I want like right now in my apartment, I'm moving my apartment. It's kind of it's it's good because each of my kids are gonna have a room, but my kitchen now is like kind of being it's kind of beat down at this point because it's been ten years and I've done anything to it.
Like literally. But it's like sweet because you can fit eight people in my kitchen cooking and interacting and having fun without bumping butts. You know what I mean? Because I'm not worried about I'm not a commercial kitchen, the space isn't at a huge premium there. So I'm a little worried about how tight it's gonna be the next time around.
What do you think? And Stash is like, don't care, don't care. Okay. Uh fork in the Road Mobile Gallery from Mexican, Kentucky. Here's a question.
Lexington. I need to go back to Kentucky at some point soon. I had a good time. I like Kentucky. I like bourbon and I like ham.
If you like bourbon, you like ham. I mean, horses are okay. Do you like horses? Yeah. But you like bourbon?
Yeah. Do you like ham? Yeah. So, you know, Kentucky. Anyway.
Three yeses in a row. Yeah, right? Whoa. Why what is she doing here? She hates everything here.
Yeah. Right? I don't think they have hipsters in uh I didn't see any hipsters in Kentucky. No, they do in Louisville, for sure. Okay.
Yes, that's probably true. Yeah. Uh here's a question about uses for leftover eggs. Leftover 64 Celsius eggs. Now, for those of you out there, when you're doing low temperature cooking on eggs, uh, 90% of the eggs that you're going to use are one of three temperatures.
62, 62 Celsius in an immersion circulator. If you cook a chicken egg at 62 Celsius for uh 45 minutes to an hour, you're gonna get like a classic eggs, Benedict egg in terms of the yolk, and the outside's gonna be custardy. If you want to make it harder on the outside, white, you can drag it through simmering water on the way to service, okay? And you just cook it in the shell, you crack it out, and it cracks out beautifully. It's wonderful, it's amazing, and the life-changing technique, yada yada.
63 degrees Celsius, right? Or anything really above 62, like 62, 5, 62, three, uh, you know, 62, something there, 63, you get what's called a creamy yolk, where the yolk is creamy throughout, but is more like a sauce, almost like uh thick on glaze or a custard. Really nice. I really like that for uh bro like soups where you don't want it to bleed out entirely, but you want to be able to mix in eventually as a fine sauce or in an aspic. Sometimes I like it where you don't want it to run out entirely.
64 is really, really creamy, but only sags a little bit. Now what I call it is just set. So those are the three temperatures that are gonna comprise 90% of the eggs that you cook in an immersion circulator. Alright? Okay.
Okay. I often run my circulator, uh my food truck for soft egg dishes, inevitably with some leftovers in a service. Never wanting to waste, especially a delicious fresh local egg. I chill them in an ice bath and use it the next day as an ingredient in other dishes. So far, discarding the alabumin and jet that you know the white and just using the yolk.
I started with salad dressings. Caesars, of course, but as an emulsifier in all uh in almost anything. And I just went the next step and subbed them in a Monero's cuisine's Hollandaise recipe, which we talked a little bit about last time. Uh instead of cooking the raw egg yolk bags and zippies in a circulator, I simply blended the uh cold 64 degrees C yolks with the vinegar reduction to make a great base for the butter to emulsify it into. It's freaking fantastic.
It works better than the original recipe. Take that, take that. It works better than the original recipe, and the thick texture uh coming out of the ISI because they were shooting their holidays out of the ISI gun is fantastic. That's a good use. My question, first, I can't think of any dangers outside of temperature control in doing this.
Can you? No. As long as the as long as you um you know are using it with it, it's an RTE food, right? So you treat it like any other RTE food where you've uh you know killed um, you know, the pathogens in it and you know use it accordingly. So if you let it sit out for a long time cold, then you're shafted.
You know what I mean? If you heat it up to temperatures that are going to be like if you put it in an ISI in a warm bane and you keep it in that Bane Marie at a temperature above the kill, you know, the kill point for you know whatever you're interested in, salmonella, listeria, whatever, uh, then you know, no, it's totally safe. So I can't think of any extra uh problems. Uh second, you must have uh have leftover low temp eggs from time to time. What do you like to do with them?
Uh thanks, and please send me a Searsol ASAP. Uh okay. Uh still thinking uh Sears On is the name to go with. Get it on versus off. Anyway, Mark Jensen's uh Fork in the Roll Mobile Galley.
You know, I never I mean like usually what I've never done a whole bunch like for service had sixty-four eggs. We you know would mostly run sixty-two's for Benedict and 62s you can honestly uh reuse the next day straight up. You know what I mean? Like you can because what we do is is we cook the 60 here. And you might be able to do this with a 63 or 64 as well.
So we cook the 60 uh let's say 62. We cook the egg at 62 for uh an hour, and usually we over we overload the the uh the thing, and so you know, once it gets back up to temp, we give it like an hour, an hour and fifteen minutes, right? And then we drop the temperature to 57. At 57 Celsius, there's no creep at all. It's totally safe, right?
And there's no creep at all in uh in the egg yolk texture over the course of a whole service. You could take those same eggs, put them in uh in cold water, whatever, put them in the fridge, bring them back up the next day, you know, so you then you cook off your next uh day's eggs, and then you put uh you know, after you cook them when it's time to re-therm, you throw the eggs from the uh the previous day in when you when you had it at 57, they come up to temp so that they're warm enough to serve in about 20 minutes, and then you 30, and then you can uh and then you can use them, you know, obviously use them first, but you can use them like yesterday's eggs uh without I've never noticed a loss in quality, uh unless you're rough with them and the whites can suffer a little bit. Now that's at 62. Once you get up to 63 and 64 and the whites start to get more set, you might have a little bit of weirder whites on the second day, but you can uh try it. But I think your use of the uh the egg yolk is uh awesome.
I can't think of any, I couldn't think of any uses for the whites. But someone will call in. I mean, you could always just crack them into a pot of boiling water, the thin whites will go away, hard cook those suckers, and then use them in an egg salad, and everybody knows that everybody who's anybody likes an egg salad. Stas, do you like an egg salad? Even Stas likes an egg salad.
Four yeses. Egg salad delicious. Jack, Joe, am I right on this? Yes. Egg salad.
God, I love egg salad. Uh it's really weird. Like it like theoretically you would think that I mean it's it's it's it's perceived as kind of like a low rent kind of a thing, but it's really delicious. Like, why would that be a low-end thing? You like celery in your egg salad?
Yeah. Yeah, you too. I know some people don't like celery in their egg salad. I think they're wrong. Okay.
Uh Mattia writes in about sous vide and safety. Hi, Dave, Nastasha, Jack, and you ready? Others. You like that, Joe? Others.
Okay. Thanks for a great show. Did you give a boo? Did you give a booty? I gave a little bit of a boo.
You gotta have like the boo button. You need a boo button. That's true. We should get like a ghost or something. Yeah, like did what did Booberry ever say a boo on air for booberry cereal?
I'll go through YouTube and I'll pull one out. Do you know a booberry uh contains uh FNDC blue one? I think it's one, right? And uh we have a container of it, maybe two, I can't remember. And uh, if you eat enough of that, you don't uh defecate blue, you defecate green.
Did you know that? No, but did you tell everybody about your cereal puffer yet? Can we get to that before the show ends? Uh yeah, why don't we want to Okay, so that's yeah, maybe I should talk about it. Did I talk about that at all?
Not really, dude. Alright, so it turns out in the olden days, when I say olden, I mean olden. Or currently, they still use this machine in uh Mexico, uh, and where's the other place? Possibly Poland. There's a third Peru, right?
Uh so when you wanted to make puff cereals, here's what you did. You took your grain, you tempered it out to I think around 12%, 12 to 14% moisture somewhere in there, right? Tempering very important. Uh I think you can do it with things other than grain, but that's mainly what they did. Uh and then you put it in a sealed chamber, all right.
And the sealed chamber has a porthole on it with a like a door that shuts down really tight. It's got a huge giant locking mechanism, like a giant vice grip on it. Then you spin it so that it keeps on uh spinning so that everything's even. It's like a tumbler, almost like a dryer, right? Then you put a uh uh uh a propane flame on it, like a big blower, like for a for uh for a furnace.
And you heat that sucker up until it gets up to like a hundred and seventy or a hundred and eighty psi, like three hundred and sixty-five degrees Fahrenheit, something like that. And when it gets up to there, you stop it, and you hit the lever with a lead pipe. Might be a steel pipe, but I'm hoping it's a lead pipe, because that's food, that's food safe, right? Uh you hit it and boom, the thing flies up and boom, the pressure releases, and uh each individual grain just puffs instantly into puffed wheat, puffed corn, puffed rice, puffed anything, right? And this is how puff cereal was originally made, and it was called a puffing gun.
And that is that's why, like if anyone of you remember the, you know, I don't, I was not born yet, but I used to listen to a comedian named Stan Freeberg from the 50s when I was growing up because my parents listened to him. And so, you know, I'm familiar with all the old marketing terms because he was an ad guy. He's still alive. Uh and uh and they the old um motto used to be shot from guns, because that's what they used to say about puff cereals that it was shot from guns because legitimately it was shot from puffing guns. They knew have newer technology called continuous puffers that no longer work on this batch technology, and they're only used in countries that can't uh don't have the infrastructure to support uh moving the larger pieces of continuous puffing equipment around, but they're still used, and they're made by the Piritan Manufacturing Corporation of Omaha, Nebraska, in the same way that they were made decades and decades and decades ago.
And the Museum of Food and Drink just received a couple of weeks ago our very own puffing gun, and I could not be more excited because I'm gonna puff everything. Like anything you I'm gonna puff the hell out of. I'm gonna take dried shrimp, I'm gonna see if I can puff shrimp. I don't know if I can because it's protein, not a carbo, whatever. I'm gonna puff it.
I'm gonna puff it. You name it, I'm gonna puff it. Like, I'm gonna take all these books on this bookshelf, I'm gonna try to puff these bookshelves. Um this summer, if you're in New York City, uh late summer, because we have to build a truck and we have to make it food grade and we have to get our permitting and all that. But look for the Museum of Food and Drink to be hauling a puffing gun around uh as the first step towards our cereal exhibit that we're gonna have as the first exhibit the Museum of Food uh puts out.
What do you think, Jack? And you know where it's being stored, people? Puffing guns being stored at the Heritage Meet, uh at the Heritage Meat Headquarters. Heritage Foods USA. Heritage Foods USA, but yeah.
Because not only is Heritage Radio and Heritage uh Heritage Foods, Heritage Meats a uh a longtime supporter of the museum, but Patrick Martins, our founder, is on the board. On the board. That's it. Okay. I've got great news.
What's that? William McGee just became a member. So that will be the title of today's episode. Yeah? Yeah.
William McGee. William McGee. Thanks, man. William McGee. Nice.
Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, William. I appreciate it. Okay.
Uh Matea writes in about Sue Vid and safety. Uh hi, Dave, Nastasha, Jack, and others. Thanks for a great show. I was recommended your show by a friend and started to try and catch up on your archive. Many hours of listening to Duke.
Nah, don't bother. I'm kidding. It's does like, yeah, really. Uh, to let you know how I am. I'm a computer electronic engineer, impassioned by cooking, and I'm living in Sweden.
A while back I started to learn about sous vide cooking as I'm totally amazed by it, especially cooking tough meats for long numbers of hours, 10, 24, 72 hours. I would like to try to learn to cook most food sous vide, especially all kinds of meat that benefit in both long time cooking and tender cuts, obviously shorter times. I'm currently using the poly science creative circulator, which I think is great, though I'm curious about the safety aspects. Where in the temperature zone is the actual danger zone or safe zones if you invert it. Is the so-called danger zone between 3.3 Celsius and 54 degrees 4 Celsius?
Or between 3.3 degrees Celsius and 60 degrees Celsius. 60, that's 140 for you guys out there. 60 is 140. Always remember 60 Celsius, 140 Fahrenheit. It's one of those magical numbers you need to remember.
Okay. At what temperature can uh uh I pasteurize safely and keep it there for long cooking? Does that temperature start at 55 degrees Celsius? Or do I need to move it up to 60 degrees Celsius? This is my main question.
Uh and which intervals shall I avoid, especially cooking long hours? This is my second main question. Though I'm aware that there are many other benefits to work in the 60 degrees plus domain for tough meats as enzymes get more active, etc. Although you know they get the act well, I'm I'm not gonna get into that, it would take too long. But I'm curious for a pure bacteria parasites killing perspective in this question.
The reason for the question, he said I find different resources that seem to be contradictory. Uh, and I'll reference them below. I'm interested in knowing that I get a decent reduction of all normal pathogens and parasites, including Triconello and cooking pork. What's the story behind the different statements? 54.4 versus 60.
And then he references uh Douglas Baldwin's sites, who he usually has pretty good numbers. Uh Thomas Keller's book, Under Pressure. Uh Thomas Keller's book under pressure specifically uh puts the danger zone at 4.4 to 60. So in other words, refrigeration temp upper sh up to 140. And that's my main gripe with that book, actually.
That's just it's wrong. I think, and you know, I've heard discussions of it with people who are involved. And the issue is they didn't want to get into complicated, they didn't want to get into complicated discussions about temperature versus time. Yeah, that that was like the that was like the unfortunate part about that book is is them saying that you shouldn't keep meats um below 140 60 degrees Celsius for long periods of time when everybody knows that cooking at 55 degrees Celsius for 72 hours is entirely safe and above 544 for any length of time in meat in beef, any length of time, uh not ground beef, but any length of time for a whole muscle cut over 544 uh over 117 minutes. So 117 minutes and above a minimum of 117 minutes guarantees safety according to the old food codes.
So uh so that thing on uh the under pressure numbers is like entirely strange uh thing and kind of I think like the weak spot of that book. The recipes I think seem to be pretty good, right? Mm-hmm. Uh I mean, although I don't know, I haven't cooked a lot of them. Uh then Suvid uh looking at cuisine technology website, it states that the danger zone is between 4.4 and 60, but then they say at the rule of thumb is that vegetative pathogen and parasite development can grow only below 54.4, which seems fair uh compared to the bald wind sites.
And then uh it it references an interesting um there's a bunch of sites that say a bunch of a bunch of different things. I'm not gonna go through each one of them because they're all different. And most of this stuff people are are are basically uh wrong. Uh there's, you know, there's one site that's he mentions that's interesting called uh the a food authority. What is it?
It's something I'll have to look at it and then and call you out later, but it's basically saying that there needs to be more study. Right, right? Which is absolutely true. Here's the real deal, okay? Uh 140 degrees, 60 degrees Celsius, is the temperature at which most of the pathogens that we're interested in are killed in very, very quick order, right?
So uh that number is on the safety uh in the food safety thing. Anything below that is is shown as this uh danger zone because uh they don't trust you to do accurate measurements at anything below that temperature, and if it hits that temperature, you're pretty much guaranteed to have wiped out anything that's a problem, right? And that's why they choose those numbers. And because they assume that there's a lot higher contamination on ground meat, even though the pathogens of interest are the same on ground meat as on uh fresh meat, they put the ground meat numbers even higher because they want to make sure that you rapidly kill everything on there, right? Does that mean that in order to kill bacteria you need to make it up to that temperature?
Absolutely not. Okay? So most pathogens grow very well up to about 40 degrees Celsius, and somewhere between 40 and 50 degrees Celsius go into a static no growth phase. All right. So anything above 50 degrees Celsius, so anything below 50 I don't trust uh uh as as a safety measure for cooking uh for cooking things, for killing bacteria.
And in fact, I don't use anything below 54.4, even though there are probably numbers that but are below 54.4 degrees Celsius that will kill uh most of the bacteria of interest if cooked long enough. I don't have any data that supports the thermal death times for a bacteria at those temperatures, and so I don't recommend any procedures below that temperature for pasteurization purposes, okay? Because remember, the lower you go on a temperature, just be so there's two things you want to do when you're when you're heating something. You want to make it taste good, three things. You want to make it taste good, that's the most important thing from my standpoint.
Two, you want to prevent bacteria from growing, right? And you want to kill the bacteria that are present. Cooking over 50, uh, you know, and definitely over 52 Celsius, which is Bruno Gusot's number, is going to prevent the pathogens. There are bacteria that grow well above that temperature. There's bacteria that grow on thermal vents in 2022 degree uh, you know, uh water.
Uh but the pathogens of interest aren't going to be growing above uh uh it will take Gusot's, you know, nice but you know, number 52. They're not gonna be growing above that number, right? But the question is how fast are you killing them, right? And so for the bacteria that are present that you're trying to kill, right? The lower the temperature above the begin kill zone, the longer it takes.
And I don't have curves that tell you how long to cook a piece of meat to pasteurize it when you're at 54 below 54.4. And so I don't give any uh numbers for below 54.4. So the the the problem is is that uh you know they write the codes and this this term safety zone, danger zone, is is supposed to be like kind of a bone-headed rule that we can all just follow and will guarantee safety. And it is. If you follow that old, you know, uh, you know, fridged up to uh 60 degrees Celsius, 140 rule, yeah, you're gonna make safe products because that's inherently safe.
However, uh it's not nuanced enough. There are many products that are safe. They're cooked below that temperature. It's just a question of now you need to actually worry about being precise and you need to worry about how long you cook something, right? So it puts an extra variable in that the food code under its normal guises doesn't want to handle.
They'd much rather just have a cook at the 60s so it's safe kind of a thing. You know what I mean? Because remember, the regulatory boards out there, they're not, they're not tasked with giving you as a cook everything that you want to make the products as delicious as you want them to do. Their only task is to ensure that food that is served to the public is safe. That's it.
They don't care whether it's delicious. That's not their job. You know what I mean? I mean it's dead. Yep.
Yeah. Okay. Was that helpful or no? Yes. Okay.
Uh Enigo Aguirre writes in on carbonation. Dear Dave, I've been trying to apply carbonation to beverages for quite some time with poor results. I've tried the ISI soda siphon and got very poor carbonation, even after using very cold water. That makes sense. It's very I'll tell you how to do it in a minute.
Uh various types of liquid shaking after each CO2 charge and leaving it in the fridge long enough to help further uh uh dissolution of CO2 or dissolving of CO2. In the meantime, I got a hold of a 300 gram CO2 bottle and a beer regulator that I'm trying to connect with a soft drink bottle through a tire valve. Uh see the photo. I'm still having poor results because there's a slight leak of CO2 through the valve. Uh there are no screws through the valve, and I believe uh I've been searching around a lot and cannot manage the PSI that I'm aiming for.
But I'm working to find a kind of glue that would stick to the plastic and rubber and would tolerate high pressure. Hopefully we'll have it solved by tomorrow, though if you're aware of any simpler way of attaching a bottle to a regulator, I would really appreciate your advice. I'm going crazy. On the product end, I'm trying to work on a gin and tonic made by cold infused quinine bark, citric acid and sugar, and gin. The flavor is more dirty than a GNT, but nevertheless interesting and inspired by your gin and juice that I had a few weeks ago on a trip to New York City.
Would like to serve it in a champagne glass. My questions How do you manage to get such greatly thin and elegant bubbles? I work on it. Uh what PSI temperature combination do you apply and how many recharges do you apply in order to get the right carbonation? And do you know the amount of CO2 that you can uh get to dissolve per liter?
I've read that champagne holds about 12 grams per liter. Is this about right for the cocktail? What are the differences between carbonating soft drinks and other cocktails that include an alcohol? And I understand that with alcohol you need more PSI, but how much? Any other tricks?
Thanks so much in advance. Excuse me for sending such a long email and eagle Aguirre. Okay, first of all, uh so I looked at the picture. He is using a tire valve, which is a Schrader valve that is being uh kind of bolted into the top of a regular PET bottle. This technique goes back to about 2002 from the grandmaster of carbonating at home, uh Richard J.
Kinch. And I noticed that uh his technique was ripped off in a bunch of instructables without uh for well, of course without crediting him because people are D bags. So, uh, you know, I had already had at that point a professional uh a professional carbonating rig at home because that's the only way I knew how to get carbonation at that point when he wrote it. But when I read his uh article on home carbonation, it was before I had the carbonator caps, which is how I do it now. Essentially, his technique is a homemade version of the carbonator cap sold by liquid bread.
I highly recommend that you purchase a liquid bread carbonator cap and the bottle in bag uh syrup uh not the bottle in the bag, the uh the pre mix uh um ball lock valves that go with it. They are they're very cheap. The you can get the cap for uh 15 bucks at any homebrew supply online, and you can get the rest of the stuff which goes right on your hose with no leaks and a hose clamp for about three bucks. And with that, you can turn any uh soda bottle into a really great carbonation uh thing. Aside from the leak, which may or may not be the problem, when you're carbonating straight water, you're gonna want to be about 35 PSI.
When you're carbonating a cocktail like a gin and tonic, you're gonna want to shoot for about 14% alcohol and about 45 PSI. When you're carbonating water, you're gonna want it to be about maybe 40, 35 to 40. You're gonna want it to be at zero degrees Celsius. There should be chunks of ice in it, it should be cold. Uh remember it's gonna heat as you carbonate it and it's gonna get warm because you're not feeling it while you're doing it.
Two, when you're carbonating a cocktail, you're gonna want it to be about twenty-two degrees Fahrenheit when you're working. That's the number where you want 22, 23, at about 14%. That's the number. Uh and you're gonna want to go 45. The reason you need more uh uh carbonation is because alcohol absorbs more CO2.
So to have the effect of CO2 on you, you're gonna need to have um uh higher pressure. The other thing you're gonna need to do is get rid of the air space when you're carbonating. It's a classic thing. That's the reason you got bad carbonation in your in your ISI was the ISI is very difficult, especially if you use a soda siphon, you can actually get better carbonation results out of using a regular whipped cream maker than you can out of the soda one because at least you can purge the head space. If you're using an ISI and you want to get a good result, you throw in, get it very cold.
You can even keep ice in the ISI. You put one charger in, you shake it a little bit, you foam it all off instantly to get rid of all of the bubbles and nucleation sites that are in the thing, and to purge the head space of oxygen and nitrogen, whatever else. Then you throw in your second charger, shake it, let it sit, then it will be carbonated if you release it slowly. When you're doing it in a bottle, you need to squeeze out all of the headspace, which is why soda bottles are so great. Get rid of all that air in the headspace, only fill it uh about three quarters full.
Close it, carbonate it once, let it foam off, getting rid of nucleation sites. Carbonate it again, foam it off again, get rid of more nucleation sites, carbonate it a third time. By the third time, you should let it sit in the in the freezer for a little while to mellow out. Then you can uncap it very carefully and pour it and you should be good. The other problem you're having with that valve is unless you shut off the gas, you're opening up the gas when it's under pressure.
It's gonna make a mess everywhere. But anyway, so go get the carbonator cap. Uh make sure that everyone gives uh high praises to Richard uh J. Kinch, the the granddaddy of the carbonation cap, right? Lastly, they're gonna kick me off here in a minute.
But lastly, Pauline writes out uh from Alaska. I'm a huge fan of your show. Well, potting up some starch for the garden. I heard you discuss ways to screw up immersion blender mayo and suggest my solution a wide-mouth pint mason jar. Works for me.
I also have a question, a topic rather. I was hoping that you might pontificate a bit on smoking salmon and other fish. I live in an interior of Alaska, where they have awesome fish, and make annual pilgrimage to dip net the yearly quota for various salmon species. This is one of the greatest things about living in Alaska. I fillet some, cut some into steaks for near immediate consumption, leave a huge a few whole for extravagant harvest parties, and smoke slash dry the rest.
Not like that palette pasty stuff shaved that they sell in the store. Our smoked salmon should be almost jerky-like and full of smoky, slightly salty, sweet flavor. I love the smoked salmon. Uh I love smoked salmon and want to do better, learn more, etc. Thus, I'd like to hear what you might suggest, including ways you'd like to use this fish candy.
Uh okay, first of all, just so you know, like the like uh I'm sure most of our listeners know that, like, you know, there's salmon, there's Atlantic salmon, right? And then there's Pacific salmon, and they're not the same species. And in the Pacific salmon, there's a bunch of different species that they get up there in Alaska. They get the Chinook slash the king, which is the highest in fat content, the sake, which is you know also known as the red, which doesn't have quite as much fat, but has a real kind of punchy salmon flavor, so a lot of people like it. The coho, uh, which is also kind of high in fat, and then the chum, which is lower, and the pink, which is lower.
They're not bad, they're just lower in fat, and everyone wants the super high-fat salmons, both because of the omega bull crap, but also because they like the luscious flavor of fat. And if you're smoking, actually, high fat is nice because the fat's gonna pick up more on the smoke. Okay. So, um, so here's what I'm assuming you first of all, that the stuff that you're saying is pale pasty shaved stuff in the supermarket. I look, I agree.
Smoked, most smoked uh salmon that you get in the supermarket when it's vacuum-packed is wretched. But the same style of salmon, i.e., not the salmon you're talking about, the same style of salmon is incredibly delicious when you get someone to uh cut it, hand-cut it off of the whole fillet, and you eat it after it's never been vacuum-packed and allowed to get all mushy and nasty. I can attest, they are not even the same product. You know, I I don't know who sells it in Alaska, but when you go to uh New York, go to buy Russ and Daughters and have them hand slice you some of their some of their uh their their salmon. It's incredibly delicious.
But so the procedure that you're using in Alaska, I'm assuming is you do an initial brine. The initial brine is going to kill uh some of the uh or it's gonna prevent some of the bacteria from growing. It's gonna be a kind of a curing step. Then you're gonna air dry it, then you're gonna equalize it, or you're gonna equalize it rather, then you're gonna air dry it, and then you're gonna smoke it. I'm assuming you're talking cold smoking.
Actually, you know what to hear the thing? I did a bunch, a bunch of research on uh on the kind of safety. Uh, and I guess we should talk about it next time because I'm told I'm gonna have to leave now. Should I talk about it more in depth next time? Or should I go?
Do I have time? Next time. Next time? Alright. Well, on the well, Pauline, I'm gonna talk more about it next time.
It's a really interesting subject, especially safety. There's a couple of references I want to give you. They're cutting me off here, but guess what? The New York Times came up with a thing saying uh if you don't have high blood pressure, uh you shouldn't worry about your sodium intake. And not that I believe that study more than any other, because I'm very skeptical, but told you've been saying that for a while.
Told ya! Told ya, cooking issues. I want to give another shout out to William McGee. Thanks for becoming a member, man. Cooking issues.
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