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Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from Robertus Pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the Heritage Radio Network, joined as usual with Nastasha The Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Stas? Good. And we got Evan in the control group today, right?
How are you doing, Evan? Good, how are you? You ever uh you don't talk much on the air? I guess. No, I'm uh been a quiet guy.
Yeah, quite guy. So are we saying, Stas when I rudely interrupted you as is my want? Nothing. Yeah? Yeah.
Anything good going on? No, I was I was just looking up the A classic recipe that that uh I asked you to look up the uh oh and you're looking through. We got the uh for those of you that have uh never written a book before, which was me until like a month ago, uh the publisher comes out with this thing called a blad. A book layout and design thing. So we're just looking at just came in the Blads for the new cocktail book coming out in November.
November! November. You know who else's books are coming out in November? I don't know. For those of you that don't know the like it takes forever to get uh a book uh out because they like even though it's already done, they they go through a bunch of revisions and copy editing and then they send it overseas to get printed, and then it has to get shipped back, and they need to have it in the country for a little while before they ship it out, ba boop ba beep ba ba.
So when you're going through kind of traditional publishing route, it sure does take a long time. Doesn't it seem like it takes longer than you than you'd think it would stuff? Yeah, definitely. Especially because it's like it's done now. You're we're done with it, we're done.
And then now you like we just want it to come out. But uh we have some good friends with books coming out in November. I can't even remember all of them, like a bunch of good ones. Like uh Brooks, his book is coming out in uh October, November, the same publisher. Got the hip pressure cooking book coming out, bunch of good stuff coming up.
Anyways, uh anything good happened uh past couple days? Anything anything horrible? No. No? That's good.
Nothing good, nothing horrible. Uh I got this one off of uh the Twitter, sent in uh it's not a question, it's more just a hey, check this out. Uh, from uh at Jim Guarnieri writes to us, uh, and I haven't told you about this yet, Stas, because I want to get your direct uh reaction. So uh it's it's from uh I don't know whether it's Live Science or Live Science is the name of the website, and the reporter is Charles Choi, and writes about this baby poop bacteria help make healthy sausages. And the tag the tag the title line of the article Pooperoni.
It's a pooperoni. Because what they're doing is some scientists in England were trying to get uh the most kind of uh probiotic. So, you know, when you ferment sausages, right? One of the things you're looking for, well, the primary thing you're looking for is uh a drop in pH so that you can uh inhibit unhealthy things from growing in it by having uh the pH low enough that they won't grow. Uh so typically you get lactic acid bacteria, uh, and they also produce that awesome kind of lactic acid flavor.
And then the question as a as a sausage maker is where do you fall? Do you like a more acidic sausage? A lot of Americans tend to do kind of hardcore uh like really hard pH dropped uh fermented stuff I think 'cause they like the tang and also because you know it's definitely helps enhance food safety whereas you know I knew a lot of people who also like a really kind of mild, less tangy sausage, but they have to play more with, you know, making sure that they're on the safe side. What do you like better? Tangy or not tangy on a fermented sausage?
Um I don't think I care. I like most all sausages. You like them both? I don't like it when it gets so so tangy that the meat kind of gets granular and breaks up weird. Yeah.
You know what I'm talking about? Although sometimes I like it. There's some like citrus, some citrus dried sausages with like that have like like noticeable acid flavor to them other than just lactic. And those I kind of like even though they're crumbly. Whatever, anyway, that's not what I'm talking about here.
So the point is that these researchers in uh in the UK, I think it was UK, say, well, listen, we've growing bacteria they don't talk like that there. They're like, listen, we've growing bacteria inside these sausages anyway, so what if we doped it with some probiotic stuff so that we could say that it helps your intestines, you know, helps you pooper out while you're doing it, right? And so they figured who's got a lot of those uh you know probiotic stuff without a lot of pathogens? Babies, and so they uh they I guess like took a bunch of baby diapers and cultured stuff out and found some bacteria from the baby diapers that they thought were good and they started inoculating it into it making the uh pooperoni. What are your thoughts just reading this I mean that what do you well you know now that you like with a first blush would you have you wouldn't have a problem with pooperoni would you have been cultured so many times.
Yeah I'd be fine with it. Yeah I mean San Francisco sourdough like you know one of them one of s one of the main um uh back when they did testing which was decades ago uh they tested for strains of uh bacteria in the uh in the sourdough starters and one of them was you know the its main substrate is uh the gums of people with periodontal disease. Yeah so yeah I have a problem with that. That's even grosser, right? You'd like to rather poperoni.
You'd rather poperoni than the periodontal disease. Like you know sometimes. Yeah why? I don't know like why is it like that? Oh uh well I mean look it's so far removed anyway and like you know the like the most shocking the most kind of disturbing passage in modernist cuisine for those of you that have it is the one where they uh describe the s the experiment done in the submarine where uh they take all the sailors in the submarine and they they give them a uh a check in the you know a butt a butt check I said we can say that on air they check their butts and they uh they put a uh a phosphorescent powder in on their behinds right and didn't tell them about it and then a day later they took a a black light and walked around the sub uh submarine whole freaking submarine lit up like like a freaking club with the black light like showing the phosphorescent dust all the time used to eating that I'm saying you are so thoroughly coated with like all kind of like nastiness people touching their face, people touching their mouth, people touching their butt, people touching the ground and then wiping it all over every surface and then you touch that surface.
I mean my thing is like look I got mental issues like uh not just cooking issues people I have some mental issues on like for instance public restrooms like I can't use it but I know that it's irrational. I know that my fear and disgust of public restrooms and of touching uh faucets and knobs uh in in public restrooms and areas like that. I know that it's illogical because I know that that stuff is everywhere, but I just can't kick it, you know? I don't know. Mm-hmm.
What about you? You don't like a public restroom either. Nobody likes a public restroom. If you like a like, I don't know, someone can call it. Maybe they're like oh, by the way, if you do have a question related to cooking, call it in two 718-497-2128.
That's 7184972128. Oh, well, so the tagline is the baby poop helps actually make the sausage more healthy, more healthy. It also reminds me of the interesting case. Do you remember that article that McGee sent us about the uh salt risen bread and the clostridium porfringans and the guys in the right after World War I, they had saved some culture from a soldier who had died from gas gangrene, this like Clostridium that like, you know, like ate this guy's leg and like blew it up with gas and stuff like that, and they made bread with it. Whoa.
And they ate it. And they didn't die, apparently. Well, I mean, they're dead now. Now they're dead. Uh at Cless wrote in uh last week, not in time for the last thing.
He says, uh, at cooking issues, if you could read a list of microplane uses that you could think of in the style of John Mashita that would be great. You remember him? I can't I can't do it. I can't I mean look, if if I had a script and I memorized it, maybe I could talk as fast as he can, but he's the guy in the FedEx commercial who's like, you know, got it good, got a good deal deal. Remember this?
Yeah. No, you're too young. Oh, anyway, like for any of you that were alive in the 80s and remember these FedEx commercials. He was like a super fast talking guy on a telephone who would just nonstop like stream of craziness. They're awesome commercials.
I just watched them this morning on the YouTube to get a refresher on it, and they're still good. I like a commercial, it's still good. No? You don't care. Yeah, no, yeah, I'm at some.
Alright, so here are some uh here are some uh uses uh at Clef's, and they and these aren't my own uses, these are just you know obvious uses for uh microplane. So by the way, when you buy a microplane, before I get into it, you know, it there's various different sizes of uh they're not just physical sizes of the microplane unit itself, but actual uh differences in the way that the cutting teeth are arranged. They have ribbon slicers, they have coarse slicer, uh, you know, coarse graters, they have fine graters, they have ultra fine for spices and stuff like that. I tend to use mainly just uh the the normal fine one, which I use for for zests in that. But I mean obviously there's a lot more uses if you're getting some of the coarser ones, if you want to grate things like apples and carrots and stuff.
But I don't I don't do that much. You use a lot of microplane? No. Really? Mm-hmm.
Like you're against it, or doesn't come out. No, I actually use it for parmesan cheese. But that's about it. That's it. Okay.
So uh file like most of these things under uh under I didn't come up with any like killer ones that I hadn't already known about. I'm sorry about that at cla at Clefs. But anyway, uh or should I just if someone's at Clef, should I just call them Clefs? Yeah. Yeah, Clef's.
Yeah, all right. Uh so obviously spices, right? So you got your uh your nutmeg, your cinnamon, your balinese long pepper, your grains of salim, or as they say in in uh Wolof jark. Like what other hard spices you got? Probably a lot of hard spec.
Any hard spice that's big enough to hold in your hand, you could do, right? I mean pretty much. Uh I wonder whether cola nuts would be good. I don't really like cola nuts, but I bet you you could grate them. Anyways, uh obviously any hard product, uh fatty hard product like chocolate or hard cheese, duh, zest, uh any c uh any kind of zest.
I mean duh uh horseradish, if you want a real fluffy horseradish. Although I wouldn't do it with with sabi because I don't think it can grate it fine enough. However, if you have another mortar and pestle thing, but you don't have like the like the good old shark skin thing to grade into a fine paste for wasabi, a good approximation is to take the wasabi, grate it first in a microplane and then grind it in a regular mortar and pestle because it breaks down the fibers to the extent that you can get a good paste grind afterwards. Most people don't think about this, but very, very, very few um uh grinding technologies or blending technologies are good at reducing something from a very large particle size to a very small particle size, the whole range of particle sizes. So sometimes a dual uh a dual action thing like that is necessary.
Now the shark skins guys are good because they fundamentally abrade it like sandpaper, but make it easy enough to get the stuff out after it's done. So it's ideal for that. But if you don't have that, you could probably do a pretty good job by microplaning first and then mortar and pestling it with a standard uh Western style mortar and pestle. I wouldn't you I mean like at home, I don't really use standard mortar and pencils. I have a moca hete I use for things like guacamole and garlic and stuff like that, but it'd be too coarse.
I'd lose so much wasabi and the price would make me so angry. But anyway, uh horseradish, uh other hard stuff like coconuts, but not if you need too much. Can you imagine having to grate all that all that stuff on the chink shing shit? They have the rotary one, but I don't I don't have it, I don't use it. Anyway, uh also nut nuts, like larger nuts that you give you want like a little bit of grated uh walnut, grated almonds, things like this.
Obviously, things like ginger, fantastic, peel it first, uh, and anything related to ginger, any rhizome related to ginger. So you got your turmeric, you got your galangal, which uh, you know, people don't use enough fresh galangle. They really don't. Turmeric, we just did a bunch of demos with it. I can understand why you wouldn't want to use fresh turmeric because it stains the hell out of everything.
Although I used some and it didn't have as much uh you know what I didn't realize this people? Turmeric, uh, the amount of flavor seems kind of directly related to the color intensity. So we had a batch that had a very low color intensity and it had much less flavor per gram than uh than the ones with the higher color intensity. I hadn't realized that. Maybe someone else has some experience with this and they can tell me.
Uh a lot of people do garlic. I don't. You ever garlic, you ever garlic micro microplane? Um I've never done it. I mean, I'm sure it would work.
But yeah, I you know what I secretly I hate chopping garlic. I do too. I hate it. I hate it. I just hate it.
I like handing it off to somebody. I hate it. You know what uh you know what I hate? I hate that I hate that that weird sugary sticky paper sticks to you and the paper sticks to the knife after you smash it. I just don't like it.
I hate it. I don't like smashing it. I don't like I still I still don't like dealing with it. I really don't. I mean I love the flavor of it, but you know, and maybe I'll try this other thing.
Okay. I've never tried Katsu Bushi, but I'm sure it would work. You know, obviously not for what you normally use it for in Dashi, but if you wanted to like grate a little bit of Katsu Bushi over the top of something, I'm sure that'd be great. That's dried bonito for you other folks out there. Uh I have tried it with uh dried uh Chinese scallops and it's fantastic for that as a finishing thing.
I've tried it with botarga, which is great because batarga is so freaking expensive that you want something really accurate, like a microplane that you can make a like a fine grating of the botar over the uh over the you like potaga? I do. Both like the mullet and the tuna, you like them both. I don't know the difference. Right, it's mullet and tuna the two, right?
That they do. I know it's mullet and I think the other one is tuna. I think it is. Uh it's I don't buy it anymore, but the price look, when I was uh like like fifteen, sixteen years ago, I could go to the international grocery on on 40th Street and buy it for uh like I don't know, I could buy like a whole row sack. It's not can't be tuna because it's so small.
But I buy like a whole row sack for like uh I want to say like twenty bucks or something like that. You know what I mean? And it's like so expensive now. It's just so damned expensive. It's like a hundred, it's like over a hundred dollars a pound that stuff.
Wow. It's crazy. I like it though. Uh so then you got uh some cool thing cool things like at Co, they open when they open, they had that frozen foie gras where they froze the lobe and then they microplane the uh frozen foie gras over the top of stuff. That's a good use.
You got your uh Faron uh Adria did his uh cauliflower couscous with a microplane where he grates just the tips of the florets off and they look like uh couscous. Uh people seem to enjoy that. I've never done it. Wiley used to microplane, uh he used to take gel-an and set it like re gelin, you know, the hydrocolloid. He would gel it at really high percentages, like three percent, which by the way, if you're not a hydrocolloid head, freaking unheard of.
Like dance, dance, dance, dance. But he used to then grate it like batarga. He would like make different flavors of this. Like soup. I don't know if he still does it, but it's a technique he used for quite a while.
Also, frozen meats or fish. If you want like a little bit of that flavor over, you want to incorporate it in, that you can just grate with the microplane. And America's Test Kitchen recommends uh using it to get the burn off of cookies if you burn a little bit of the cookies to grate it off. And uh, you know, you could try that on, I guess you could try it on like bread and toast. Don't you hate it when you get a little bit of the I just use the sharp, I just like flat scrape blade my uh knife across the top of toast when it gets burnt.
You ever do that? You try to save it and then you give yourself that piece, you give everyone else the good piece, and you get yours looks all stupid and scraped with the little chatter marks because you chattered when you scrape the thing across it and you feel like a D-bag for wasting the bread, but you didn't buy enough extra, so you can't just like throw it away or feed it to the dog or something. Happens all the time, right? I hate that. God, I hate that.
Uh and as usual, the microplane can be used for its intended purpose, woodworking. And just a great uh uh gross does out, microplanes, they sell them for personal use, and by that it means shaving the uh the dead skin off the bottom of your feet. Yeah. There's a guy at 54 Eldritch, which is where our lab is, and uh, we call the man Coconut Feet because he sits outside with a freaking paring knife and carves the calluses off of his feet, and it looks like shavings of coconut on the on the side of the street, right? We never learned his actual name.
We just call him coconut foot, right? And the wind picks up. Oh, Jesus. Now you're killing me. Now you're killing me.
Uh let's see. Okay. Uh Travis Hawkins wrote in uh on the Twitter love uh the crap you give Nastasha for her friends tomatoes in the fridge. Uh yeah, yeah, nice, right? Nice.
Uh he's just now Sasha's like, great, here comes more punishment. No, no, no punishment for you. Uh could you do a show on other common kitchen uh oh I thought you said kit kitchen football. I thought you said refrigerator faux pas. Yeah we could probably do a whole show on kitchen faux pas.
But I was just thinking you mean refrigerator. Don't put like don't go to get mozzarella here, I'll just do some refrigerator stuff for you. Don't go to uh don't go to the the you know buy your fresh mozzarella and then put it in the fridge unless you really are an enemy of quality. Like uh do you don't put fresh mozzarella in the fridge do you? No.
Because you're gonna eat it that day anyway. I mean and you can leave it out the whole damn day. It's gonna change a little bit but the texture is better. I'd rather have it take on a little bit of a tang than have it get its texture ruined by being in in in the fridge. Now theoretically if you let that giant ball of mozzarella temper out all the way through to room temperature it will they say get back to where it was but I don't believe it and I've done side by side taste tests and the refrigerator just ruins it.
So don't put that there. I actually um if you okay now here's where Nastasha's like Maddie daddy mom. If you happen to have a uh a wine cooler or a place of that temperature I store usually all of my cheese that way instead of storing it in the fridge because it's much faster and I hate it when someone takes a nice piece of cheese and they leave it in the fridge and they forget to pull it out. You know you're gonna forget to pull it out. Like if you're me, like I'll pull that crap out hours beforehand.
Like like at lunchtime if I know I have nice cheese and it's been in the fridge I'm like I'm gonna pull that sucker out like around lunchtime so that like right before dinner when we want to eat the cheese do you are you before cheese uh before dinner cheese or after dinner cheese? Really? I when I'm out when I like when I'm home I like dinner of the cheese beforehand. When I'm out I really like a cheese plate at the end of the meal. And also I obviously like stilton at the end of the meal because that's when I want my port.
I want my port at the end of the meal and port and stilton I hey, look, I know it's tripe, but that is one of the that is one of the few straight up delicious food pairings in the world where uh food wine pairings. Like most food and wine pairings, people are like, eh, mm-hmm. No, that one is really actually good. Do you like port and stilton? It's it's good.
Walnuts, port, stilton. Okay. Uh so cheese. Uh avocados, do not store them in the fridge until they are ripe. Once they're ripe, you may store them in the fridge.
But do not put a freaking baseball uh hard avocado in the fridge. Nastasha has a California girl, can appreciate this. Uh well, you probably like swimming in avocados. Yeah, we had a huge tree. Yeah.
You know, like, so you never had the situation happen like you do here where you're like, I need one tonight and they're all hard. And they're all well, I don't buy I don't I don't shop into a fancy five dollar avocado neighborhoods. Down by you? You gotta go to Styles, Farmers. No, no, even those like you they can be when they're out of season.
Yeah, well, like luckily I live in a neighborhood that plows through avocados like the end of the world is coming, so there's a huge amount of competition for the consumers' avocado dollars in my neighborhood. And so I never pay more than uh like at tops, like at the worst of times, $250 for the Haas, you know, and sometimes much, much less, like 99 cents. Anyway, whatever. I'm sure yeah, you California people are like laughing. Like, they're free for me.
I live in California or in Florida, you know what I mean? Whatever. You know, we have our advantages out here. Hey, you you moved out here. You feel more like a New Yorker.
Yeah, yeah, I know I know. I mean right now I don't know what our advantages are. Well, we don't have weather advantages. I mean, like, you know, it's whatever. I don't know.
I've never I mean I I have lived in California, but I was too young to remember it. Uh coffee. Do not store coffee in the uh fridge. Uh that I don't mean the beverage. I mean, you know, the the product.
You're gonna get condensation as it comes in and out of the fridge or in the freezer, and the water is gonna do you damage. Don't do that. Uh do not, do not store bread in the fridge. Holy crap. How many times have you seen people do this?
Why would you put bread in the fridge? It's like it's, it's refrigeration is the like retrogradation of starch is vastly, vastly sped up by refrigeration. And I've said it before on the show a couple of times, so general rule of thumb is is that freezing of bread, right, it is uh you need to do it rapidly because just the just the amount of time that it stays in the unfrozen zone before it freezes in that horrible retrogradation like heavy zone right around refrigeration temperatures, the amount of time it spends there just as it's freezing and thawing out again is equivalent to uh roughly a full day's of staling uh sitting on your counter. So do not store breads unless they're so jacked with like you know emulsifiers and anti-staling agents like Wonder Bread that it doesn't really freaking matter. That's that doesn't really matter.
I mean that's more of like a miracle of chemistry than bread right potatoes do not store potatoes in the fridge unless you don't mind the fact that they're going to increase their sugar content and so then if you're going to fry them or something like that they'll get overly brown. If you don't care about that do whatever you like. It's a waste of freaking space to store uh you know I don't know I don't know which of you people out there have so much freaking space that you can just throw five pound bags of potatoes into your fridge without breaking a sweat but if you're that person and you're not going to fry them and you're not worried about the extra sugar content and you're an enemy of quality go ahead and do it. Many herbs should not be stored in the refrigerator if you're going to do long term storage. I do this because I don't know because I'm a jerk but you know you get the herbs you bring them home you put them in a plastic bag you throw them in the thing and two days later what happens?
They get that weird glossy gross look they smell like a swamp, and uh you've got tissue damage where they get all waterlogged. You know what I'm talking about, styles, right? Better to do what Nastasha does at 54 Eldritch, which is she puts a glass of water and she sticks the herb into it and it sits there for you know a bazillion years. Now, she has the unfortunate habit of then never using the freaking herb. You smell bad for throwing it out.
Yeah, well, kudos to that. That's actually a good instinct. Uh onion, I don't like storing onions in the in the fridge. I'm just worried it's going to transfer. I don't know.
I just don't do it. I don't know that it's actually bad, although some people say it is. I've never had a nightmare happen, and people have stored onions in my fridge, but I don't do it. Um here's a reverse faux pas, stuff you should store in your fridge, but maybe don't. Apples, store your apples in the fridge.
As soon as you get apples home, store them in the fridge. If you pick apples, store them in the fridge. Apples, as when they're at room temperature, they're respiring. Do I hate that word? I kind of like it, respire.
They're uh and what's happening is is they're um losing malic acid, right? Uh and uh and and changing and ripening on the thing. So, like if you if you want to you know have it go, if you want to lose your texture, if you want it to go uh overripe on you, if you want to lose the acid, and and very few cooks want to lose acid in an apple, then by all means, uh, you know, don't put it in the fridge. But if you want it, if you want to keep those flavors, it's like we had those ash meets kernels in, those really expensive apples, and they got left out of the walk-in because someone was like, Oh, you don't need to refrigerate those apples because they're not gonna go bad. And in fact, we took you know a lot of money in a very fancy apple, and in short order, we erased a lot of its awesome characteristics because it went from being kind of at peak with its good acid content to being lower in acid than I liked and a little overripe.
And as you know, like apples, when they get overripe, they get uh a little bit floral. They end up tasting not necessarily in a good way, but more like a Fuji. You know how Fuji's have that kind of floral sugary taste? They tend to go in that kind of direction, and of course they get mealier, which doesn't matter to me because I'm gonna juice the hell out of them anyway. But it's amazing to me how otherwise trained food professionals can't taste around the texture of an apple.
Uh it's inherently bad. Citrus. Citrus, you can keep it outside of the fridge, but the quality of it stays better if it's in the fridge. Now, if you have cases of lime sitting around, it's not reasonable to put them in the fridge, fine. But if you have a very expensive uh, you know, setsuma or something like this, and you want to maintain its quality, uh, I would keep it in the fridge just to maintain its quality.
Uh the grapefruit, especially, I think, needs to be refrigerated to maintain its quality, otherwise the flavor starts to go. At least I've read about it. I don't have as much. And uh, sweet corn, especially older style sweet corns that aren't like have like all the super sweet genes in them, the colder they are, the better they'll keep their sweetness. The best thing to do is not stir those suckers at all, is to just to buy those suckers and cook them right away.
That's the best thing, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I was like, I don't care. Okay.
Uh all right. Shall we take a uh break? Yeah. Let's go to commercial break, come right back with the cooking issues. Is the only farm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir or slaughterhouse, and it's USDA inspected poultry abattoir or slaughterhouse.
We partner with whole foods to deliver our high quality meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey. One family, one farm, five generations, 145 years. A full circle return to sustainable land stewardship, humanium animal stockmanship. For more information, please visit our website, Whiteoak Pastures.com. Oh, yeah.
I love the way he says abattoir. Abatois. Uh speaking of uh abattoir, uh the what do you like? Do you like slaughterhouse better or you like abattoir? I'm slaughterhouse.
Really? Yeah. I love the that's one of the things I like about style. She's like, give me the blunt stuff. Go blunt.
You know what I mean? Like, much better to go blunt. And speaking of blunt, there was uh on Sunday a I don't know whether it's a piece. What is it? It's not an opinion piece, it's just a an article in the New York Times about uh a slaughterhouse in San Francisco.
Uh, and uh her first name just went out of my head. It's Nyman, one of the owners of Nyman Ranch. Christoph? No, no, no. This is like a blog.
No, no, anyway. I'll I'll figure it out. Anyway, she wrote uh an article on it because the slaughterhouse that they use was affected, and there was a recall on all the meat that was slaughtered in 2013 at this slaughterhouse in the Bay Area, and uh because uh there was some there was some uh unsound uh cows that had been slaughtered in that place. And so the USDA response was to initiate a facility wide recall, even though, right, that the the cows that Nyman Ranch had slaughtered there are, you know, were totally fine, and we're under a lot of uh of scrutiny. And she was saying how ineffective our uh legislation is uh at dealing with situations like this.
So I'm not gonna get into the details of it, but I encourage you to go to the New York Times, as I think it was on Sunday, and uh look it up and check out kind of what's going on with uh with regulations and the way that it's uh harming small-scale producers who are trying to do uh the right thing by producing uh humane sustainable meat. Caller, you're on the air. Uh yeah, Dave, Dan, Seattle. Um couple of questions, uh both related to ramen. Okay.
Um, first of all, are you familiar with Yuzu Kashu, the Japanese citrus pepper paste? Uh yes. I mean, I I I I don't use it much myself, but yeah, I'm familiar with it. Okay. I've just I've gone crazy for the stuff, and I'm using a ton of it.
And I mostly use it, I mostly souvita sou v pork with it, which if you haven't never tried that, I recommend it. But the stuff is crushingly expensive in the quantities that I'm using it in. And when you cook the heck out of it for 24, 36 hours, I'm thinking that some subtlety gets lost anyway. Do you off the top of your head have an idea about how to go about faking this from iron juice rind and whatever? Well, that's the thing.
Yuzu has a very particular flavor, and it, you know, uh, and it has to do with uh the you know, not just the f the fruit itself, but the oils that are in the rind, right? So there are other citruses that are available, and on the West Coast, I mean there are people who produce Yuzu commercially, and it would probably be I mean it's still fantastically expensive. I've at the last time uh we bought some, I I forget what it was some unconscionable amount of money, like a couple dollars per fruit or something like that. But um, it's definitely that would be uh a cheaper way, but I I've never found I found other citrus, like weird citrus. Gene Lester is a fine, you know, a collector of citrus in California in Watsonville, and you know, Nastasha and Harold McGee and I went over to his ranch and we tasted a bunch of stuff.
And they um he had some citrus that like that like was he had Yuzu, which was delicious, he had bergamot, which was great, but he also had like weird citrus that I've never had before that had some of these like strange oils in them that would make a good substitute. But I can't think of uh anything offhand. I am sure though, that this is one of those things that hope hopefully one of our listeners will uh tweet on in something, some recommendation that they have to to get it done. Um but you know, it might be cheaper, like how much do they charge for it? It it's two or three dollars an ounce in the and the three ounce things that they'll sell little jars that they'll sell it to you in.
And it's a it's a blend of Yuzu, to uh Togurachi and um salt. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you could fake it. Uh you know what? We'll figure out how to fake.
I'm sure uh if you can find a supply of the Yuzu, it might actually be cheaper just to just to to make it, you know. Uh uh, because they're definitely upselling you on it. You know where they make it? Do they make it stateside or they ship it in? I believe the stuff I'm buying is from Japan.
I mean, it's you you can't find an English letter on the box, hardly. Yeah, so you're you mean look, you're you're just getting ruined by like everything there, like the cost of producing Yuzu over there, like how crappy our dollar is versus uh the yen in terms of buying power over there and the shipping. You're just getting it every which way on that. So if you could find like a California producer of Yuzu, uh, you know, I'm sure that there's someone that that ships the fruit up there, you could probably adjust the flavor to however you want. You know what I mean?
And you could probably come in way under the line on that. I just never done it, so I you know, I hesitate to give you any recommendations right off the bat, you know what I mean? Uh so but but you think it would be a lot if I can figure out where to buy an entire case of Yuzu, it would you think it will be quite a bit cheaper? Uh oh, a case of Yuzu is gonna set you back. One time, uh I forget some Japanese chef was doing Star Chefs, and Nils and I, he ordered two use he ordered he ordered two Yuzu, and they gave him two cases instead.
And Nils and I just took that thing and we made clarified like fresh clarified yuzu and uh did carbonated cocktails with it. But I mean, I'm pretty sure we blasted through a couple hundred dollars of Yuzu in that on that day. I mean, you're gonna I mean you're still probably gonna be buying them by the by the piece. I don't know that I don't know you're gonna want to invest in a caseload yet, but you know, like uh look out here you can buy uh Yuzu by the piece for a couple bucks a piece at um at some of the Japanese uh markets. The Japanese markets will have, you know, even ones that just do prepared foods that that serve that sell any kind of uh Japanese products for cooking away, usually you'll have one or two sitting around, maybe even if you're lucky, some Sudachi to mess around with, which are also expensive and delicious.
Uh thank you very much. Um uh that's certainly enough to start on on that one. Um related question. Um I'm trying to figure out f fresh ramen noodles. Um, and I've got a couple of decent recipes for I mean the actual, you know, how much uh how much flour, how much lime water, how much gluten, yada yada.
Right. But I've got a brand new meat grinder that comes with the larger whole disc is about the right size. Do you have an opinion whether the pressures to push dough through that would just blow the thing apart? Yeah, I am I I am very skeptical that that will work just because I've never seen anyone do pasta in the the meat grinder and I know that the pasta extruder attachment for the Kitchen aids doesn't really do much of anything at all. Uh I I've had that unfortunate experience, yes.
Yeah, I know. It's no it's no good. I mean every you know everyone wishes we had the you know what the ideas and food guys have, which is that arco Bellino or similar uh extruder. Um the ram what what's the hydration on the ramen noodle recipe that you have? I would ha I would have to look it up, but it's fairly high.
I mean it's there's there's quite a bit of water in it. Yeah and my my br my like uh my brain is a erased now is it is it steam or boil before fry or fry and then steam? I always forget and then dry. I think it's I think it's I think it's quick steam or f or boil, then fry, then dry, I think. My brain is totally erased on this though.
Um well the the recipe I have, which is actually off an excellent blog called Tessa's Japanese Kitchen or something close to that. Right. Um she makes the noodles fresh and just boils them. But I mean I mean I don't think itself a mild simplification of the full deal. Yeah you need a fry step.
Well I guess maybe not like if you're gonna make it fresh, what am I talking about? Like I guess not. Like but we know the commercial one they're like the ramen noodle that you know we grow up with they're fried to expel the water and get a little grease in so that they absorb a lot of the water from whatever they're placed in. You know what I mean? Yes.
Uh so they have a fry step involved with it, but perhap you know perhaps uh you know this is something I would I would defer to someone with actual uh cultural experience as opposed to you know just you know an American's experience of what ramen is like um so I don't know maybe that's the case maybe a fry step is not required but I know commercially that's what's done. And whatnot. But um all right so but regardless the meat grinder thing is unlikely to work. Hey look I don't think you're gonna ruin the meat grinder I just think it's not gonna work. Okay so you think it would just it would just not make noodles.
Yeah well what do you what are you attaching the meat grinder to what kind is it is it standalone with a big powerful motor? Yes it it's a standalone half okay I've I had one KitchenAid tack on meat grinder and it lasted like four or five years. It was great I mean it wasn't great but it was perfectly adequate. It finally died I literally wore the bearings out the bushings out in it. Yeah well what I but but oh sh calm down Captain but then the new one um cracks in a in a month.
They changed it cheapened at something Cabella's half horsepower and um I mean if it bogs down I mean here's my here's my thing. If the motor starts bogging down and heating up then obviously I'd I'd hold back on it. But I think you're gonna be alright you know it's alright to test it. I don't think you're gonna shatter it mean as long as the gears in it uh assuming it's geared down which it has to be otherwise it would go crazy assuming the gears are of some sort of uh metal uh and you don't crush it hard fast you know what I mean like you you you kind of sneak up on it a little bit. I think you're gonna be alright.
I mean, most of the time when you know gears break in mechanisms like that, it's because of a hard stop, you know. Alright, so you don't. It's not likely, but you don't think it will result in metal parts flying across the road. Uh, do not think it will. I mean, uh I won't hold you to that.
All right, very good. And you're gonna obviously want to uh you're gonna need some method to space it that allows you to remove the uh the cutting blade from the from the inside of the grinder. Yeah, um, I I can surely find something to stick with stainless steel something to stick in there for that. Yeah, or double you could double plate it. Uh no, because it'll rotate.
Well, I mean I can do that I think I can just use stainless steel washers. Yeah, all right. Yeah, just you know, you don't want the blade in there because obviously that's gonna be hacking the stuff right when you want it to be whole. Got it. Yep.
Thank you very much. Alrighty, good luck with it. All righty. Uh we have a question in from Lucas. Like Lucas.
Yes, we do need to cook his meat. Yeah. We we certain we most certainly we should do that soon. Mm-hmm. We we we just got a lot of stuff off our plate.
We can do that soon. As soon as we as soon as we get the prototype approved for the Sears all, it's gonna be a load off my mind. I can start uh thinking about cooking again. You know what I mean? Doing some real cooking.
Uh hi, Nastasha, Dave, Jack, and Joe, and Evan now. Uh as you know, I love the show. Long time listener. I heard about Dave's restaurant quality espresso machine he bought from a uh from an Italian mobster while fighting rat infestation. True story, but uh what I don't what I don't think I mentioned is that the guy that I paid to take it home in my car was a a guy who had just gotten out of Rikers for dealing crack and was setting up a uh a food truck downtown, and I accidentally he was like a weird guy.
He he w refused to refer to me as anything but white boy. And like the and I don't know, I paid him 20 bucks to take it home because when you buy stuff at an auction, it's as is where is, right? You don't get to choose, you know, you it it you know you gotta get that thing out of there right now. And I accidentally left the pump. Uh the act, you know, the actual like uh you know, the um uh it's a rotary vein pump that they use in espresso machines, real ones, and uh I left it in his freaking car.
So I had to go out there to his house, which was craziness, craziness to get it. But you know, he actually he's a nice guy. I mean, look, I mean, uh uh other than the other than the doing time for dealing crack, he seemed like a and calling me white boy incessantly. Did you have to call him and say this is white boy? I left my I liter I literally did.
Like, I I forget like why I even had the guy's number or was able to find him. But because he, I don't know, he was like, you know, look up my food truck or whatever, like this, but like I was like, hey, remember white boy with the espresso machine? I was like, which is it's uh yeah, it's an uncomfortable thing to have to refer to yourself as in the therapy. Hey, whatever anyway. Uh okay, well, fighting rat infestation.
I recently bought a house outside of the village and suddenly found myself in need of making coffee. I drink exclusively espresso and wanted to follow in Dave's steps and buy something used, possibly cheap. The question I have is most of the machines I saw are advertising 450 watts of power consumption. I assume this is during the heating process, uh, not once it's uh just kept on standing alone. Basically, how much power does this thing need on a regular basis?
Uh, and did you uh change the water tank to a smaller one? Do you keep it on all the time? Can you use it to mu uh uh can you uh use it to modify it to operate it without access to um uh water, you know, fresh fresh water on on tap. I would love to have it in the living or dining room rather than the kitchen. The second completely unrelated question I want is to work on my Indian cooking.
Where do you buy good quality spices in the city? I know of Le Boit in Midtown, but this is already uh mixed spices, and part of the fun of Indian cooking is mixing them yourself, kind of regards Lucas. Let's go in reverse order here. So for spices, I don't really have a source of like the super highest quality stuff. You know, I end up buying most of my spices at dual specialty shop on First Avenue and like around six or something like that or seventh, and Calustians, and then there's a uh there's another couple of spice shops that are right around Calustian's, you know, in the 20s on uh Lex.
But uh, you know, it look I love those stores, and I you know, I'm I'm not saying anything negative about them, but sometimes they you know, this stuff's been sitting around a lot. And you know, Piper and I used to joke around that everything has like the Calustean smell, which is not look, it's not an insult, it's just like they got a lot of spices hanging around there, and not all the product moves all the time. But if you're buying whole products there, a lot of times you can get really you know high high quality stuff. And for instance, I know dual specialty sometimes has the uh assafetida, the hang in kind of these block chunks, and I find and you might hey microplane, there's another microplane thing, acetata, the the chunks of hang. Uh when it's in that chunk form, even though I think they still have it mixed with fenigreek and all that crap, it's just much less accurate and better in that format.
Now, on to the coffee machines. Here is here's the thing. Uh it uses a boatload of power. They're they're all of those, so you're looking at a two group or three group machine. Uh you can get a single group espresso machine.
Now, the old the the newer ones are, you know, they're fantastically expensive, like the Lammar Tsoko single groups. The single group espresso machines, by and large, you can run those things off of a hundred and twenty volts single phase, and they're gonna pull somewhere in the area of 1500 watts or something like that, right? So doable uh off of a normal plug. They think they want you to use a 20 amp plug off of 120, but it's not 100% necessary. Uh once you're in a two-group or uh situation uh or more, you're gonna need uh you're gonna need 240.
And I think maybe even some of the bigger ones might need 208, but I'm not sure. The one that I had, which is a dual group ranchillo, required uh you know, two two twenty slash whatever, two forty regular, you know, uh regular power, not three phase or anything like this. Now the the thing is you have to the advantage of these large machines is that uh they have a much more stable uh temperature profile in the shot than a smaller machine. And the reason is that the way uh a traditional heat exchanger, commercial espresso machine, the way it regulates itself is by having a very, very large thermal mass. And so they dump a lot a lot of heat into it and they radiate a lot of heat out of it.
And so that and and that's the the way the way it does it. And the bigger the ship, like the the less it steers around with little changes, like pulling a shot here or there. So in a in a in a in an old style um espresso machine, in other words, old style, meaning like a heat exchange espresso machine, and not like some PID dual boiler, blah blah blah blah blah. Although I have to say I've had shots out of some of those, and I still think that I like the the bigger machines end up being better. But if you were to taste the same barista, the same make of machine, the same everything, except for uh the barista was pulling one shot out of a single group and uh one shot out of a two-group, odds are the shot out of the two group is gonna be more consistent and better.
That's just the way it is. I don't think you get that much of an advantage if you're really only pulling one shot at a time out of a three-group or more. I think that once you get up to a two-group espresso machine, the stability the temperature stability is just a lot better. Now but it does throw a lot of heat out. In my experience from a two group from the 80s, which is what I was using, uh I had around a 15 minute heat up time.
Now everyone's going to disagree and says that it takes longer for it to get stable and all this, but whatever. Give yourself a half hour, put it on a timer, have it set to turn on a half hour before you get up in the morning and ha and have it have it go on. And if you you know you shoot hot water through it you can heat the heads up you know relatively quickly. You don't have to sit there and wait for everything to stabilize because you can pump water through it. Now I'm about to discourage you from having it in your living room and here's why.
It's messy. So you you need a knockbox and you have those grinds everywhere you're going to want a source of water to wipe down the grinds and to get all that stuff out and to rinse out the uh to rinse out your your your um the porta filter uh and all and all this other stuff. So I you know unless you can run a small amount of water near the machine like I've I always want it near the sink so I can you know rinse the parts when they're done I can scrub underneath with a scotch brite when it when it's done it's just much more convenient to have it in a kitchen setting. And having that sucker plumbed into the water supply through a filter is life changingly awesome. Now you can get around that you can take and you could install uh fundamentally what's like a water cooler with a gravity feed into a uh pump you know or from a corny keg into the uh rotary vein pump that those machines use and you can run it off a gravity feed with filtered water in uh you know, in a living room, but then you have to figure out a way to get rid of the wastewater as well because every time you pull a shot, when the uh when the three-way the solenoid kicks in, you're shooting a little bit of water out.
Every time you clean it, you're shooting water out. When you're putting the blind in to clean it and do all that stuff, you're shooting water out. So it tends to dump a bunch of water, and you need some place for that to go. And so you either have some sort of a like a improvised larger drip tray, or you have it plumbed into so like wherever your dishwasher goes in, I have a separate takeoff where my dishwasher goes in. I have a condensate pump that sits on the floor of my kitchen underneath the sink.
The espresso machine gravity feeds into the condensate pump, and then the condensate pump pops it through a check valve so I don't get backsplashing into the drain line right next to where my washing machine drains into the uh tap. And that's how I do it. Uh that's what I'd recommend. I don't know technically, because it's been a long time, so I couldn't, I know I I now have one that runs on 120 because I don't have uh, you know, I don't have 220 in my in my apartment. So I couldn't throw an ammeter across my old uh guy, but they do suck power at the get-go.
I don't know what their steady state usage is, but once they're heated up, they don't use as much. You can you can feel when it clicks in and when it doesn't, you can see there's a pressure stat. And the way that the espresso those espresso machines work is is that they they come on when uh the pressure stat shows that the boiler pressures drop below a certain specified pressure. Anyways, so uh good luck with that. Um is that alright?
Yeah, you have like five minutes. Five? What time is it? 49. 49.
So I got like six minutes. So I got I got I got ten, but you're gonna give me five because you know I'm gonna go for ten anyway. It's 55 afterwards. No, jeebus. Alright, so I'm gonna have to go fast.
Uh hi, uh Nastasha, Dave, Jack, and Joe. Uh I asked the questions uh a couple weeks back about the off taste in Agar. I went back to telephone brand. Flavor gone. Good.
Uh using the same juice. I was using uh uh molecu the brand he he wrote R Molecule, but literally the brand is molecule R. Get it? Molecular brand before because uh they sold in bulk. I tasted the Agar alone and it's nasty stuff.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Actually, the same brand my mom used when I was a kid. Go figure. Hey, telephone, generation to generation. Telephone's the best.
Call up your friends. Use a telephone. You know what? Like, I don't even like do you like uh do you like that package? Like, I'm so used to that package.
Everyone likes it. Oh, I love it. I love telephone. I I just like the I like uh, you know, it's it's more expensive, I guess, than buying it in bulk, but whatever, telephone. Uh anyways, I have a few questions about Pectinx and adding body to low alcohol drinks.
As a brewer, I've been using uh generic powdered pectic enzyme from the homebrew store. Is there any benefit to using Pectonex Ultra SPL or are all pectinases created equal? No, they are not. Uh Thomas, this is Thomas from uh San Francisco. They are not created equal.
So the one you're using in brewing is probably optimized fine for whatever it's for uh there. But the the enzyme that I use, the ultra SPL, is very broad-based. It's not a single enzyme, in other words. What what they are is they're a group of enzymes that are produced by a particular strain of, I believe Aspergillus that uh that the good folks at Novozyme have isolated that produces a rather uh uh non-specific broad range uh pectinase and hemicellulase and some not much cellulase activity. So it's much more of a like an enzymatic baseball bat to use the SPL.
So when I called up Novazymes years ago when I was trying to figure out kind of what enzymes to use, because we had been using something called Pectinx uh Smash, XXL, which is uh optimized for the apple uh industry to increase the yield out of apple pumice when they're pressing to get juice and it's optimized for that. And she look literally, she said to me, Look, you know, if you're only going to use one enzyme, just use the SPL. That does everything that anything else is going to do. Uh it's just like it just it just takes care of it all. It's not optimized for any one industry, and so perhaps it's possibly more expensive on a per liter basis, but you're not using that much of it.
It's non-industrial, and it works on everything. So they use that in like olives to increase yield out of uh olives. Uh they use that in uh you could use it in apples, I use it in apples all the time. It's just really broad range stuff. And so, no, they're not all the same with amylases, like a lot of people uh you know use amylase to to break things down uh and they're not all the same either.
Uh, you know, just talk to the folks who convert uh potatoes into into vodka without doing you know using any sort of match and stuff. It's all just with it with the right choice of enzymes to get um you know as complete conversion as humanly possible. Okay. Secondly, do you have any recommendations for way to uh uh ways to add body to low uh alcohol by volume drinks, i.e. back sweetening ciders, etc.
I'm looking for something with high body effects but low sweetening. So far, I've been using beet sugar with good results, but wanted to see if you had any thoughts on the subject. Uh uh, thanks for all the work you do, Thomas from uh San Francisco. Okay, so the uh the issue here is that um the issue is that if you're adding sugar, you can use sugar, but it's gonna make it sweeter. You want it less sweet.
Also, if you're gonna store something for a long time that has live yeast in it, obviously the sugar is gonna ferment. Uh and so, you know, a lot of times people want to add for botting for sweetness now, for sweetness in body. They add a non-fermentable sugar like xylitol. Too much xylitol, and it runs through you like well, like crap through a tin goose, or it's crap through a goose. That's what Patton said, right?
We're gonna run through them like crap through a goose. Isn't that what he said? Something like that. Anyways, and oh crap does run through geese. Man, I hate geese.
Anyway, uh they're good eat. But the um point is that uh you want it non-sweet. So what you're gonna want to do, I think, is find something like glucose syrup. Now, glucose syrup uh is actually uh it has some glucose in it, which is sweet, but it's also got a lot of uh dextrins in it. Things like you know, uh like higher order polysaccharides that are roughly tasteless but add a lot of body and under society benefit, they're not very fermentable.
So a lot of times when I want to make something very dense, like a liquid very dense, without using without making it sweet, I'll put in glucose syrup. Uh and you look at you want like a very low DE, the dextrose equivalent on the glucose syrup, because that means that it, you know, very little of it's been converted all the way to glucose, and you have a lot of uh, you know, larger chain polysaccharides that are gonna add a lot of body but aren't gonna add any sweetness at all. Glucose syrup is you know very dully sweet, very, very dully sweet. And you can buy it at uh you know um pastry supply houses. Um, uh Tony, you asked me a question about soda and cocktails.
I don't know if I'm gonna have time to get to it. Uh so I'm gonna get you next time uh and I'll get you some more information about value. Tony from Brazil, our friend from Brazil, wrote in to ask about uh carbonated cocktails on tap, and it's gonna take me too long to go into the rant on carbonated cocktails to to deal with here. Nastash is like shuddering, just thinking about it. So put it on next week's uh topic and we'll talk about it.
But Sam, I've missed you uh two uh weeks uh in uh uh a row, uh, and I thought I was gonna be able to get Mark Ladner on to uh discuss it, but uh I I couldn't make it work. So I'm gonna just read your question and I'll give you some brief thoughts right now. What's the best approach for homemade pasta sheets in uh lasagna bolognese? How do you like that? Bologna.
Say it with me, says. No. Come on. All right. Uh Marcella Hazan has you pre-blanch and rinse the pasta beforehand to combat sogginess.
Is this necessary compared to classic pasta dough recipe of one-ish cups of flour for about one egg? How do other pasta doughs compare? Like Keller's uh 12 egg yolk pasta, or I've read seven, or gluten dough pasta found in Modern Scuisina home. Thanks, Sam. Uh here's the deal.
Uh yeah, you want to pre cook that to form the uh to form the uh the structure. I should say I've never done it without cooking it, but I've always cooked lasagna before I've uh, you know, fresh lasagna before I've uh put it into because you want the protein to set and you want to uh have it bind and coagulate so that it doesn't get all uh trying to think of a non uh word I can use without non-cursing word. Anyway, shid yard. You know what I mean? Like you want it to be okay.
So but uh I don't know that for a fact. That's a question like maybe Stas can just ask Mark and repeat report back next week. But the thing on uh egg yolks versus eggs, I did a lot of research uh on this one, and there's some interesting articles on it. So if you look on the internet, most people will tell you that aside from the flavor and the color that you that you get in egg yolks, a lot of people say that if you do egg, I've always, by the way, this is just you know, for me, just so you know where I'm coming from. I was always a uh a whole egg guy.
I never I never did egg yolks uh and I never did egg whites. I always use whole eggs, always. And I would typically use one egg uh for every cup of whole of flour, and then I would add enough water to get the hydration where I wanted. That's just what I've always done, you know, since since I've started, you know, making pasta in my twenties. So the uh but it's a very interesting thing.
Now, if you look on the internet, a lot of people who are, you know, cooking, you know, practically cooking will tell you that the um the egg yolk one is harder, right? Uh and like you know, harder to knead and and chewyer and stuff like this. But I think they're making a fundamental uh mental error, and that is this. Egg yolk is uh has much less water in it than an egg white does. Like the water content of an egg yolk is only like somewhere close to uh you know a f the solids are high.
The solids are in the 50% range, when you include the fats and proteins and everything like that, there's not nearly as much water in an egg yolk as there is in an egg white. So in a study of um in a study that you can uh go read, I'm trying to get it to you before uh they rip the microphone off of me. If you go to uh modeling of fresh egg pasta characteristics for egg content and albumin to yolk ratio by uh Christina Alampreci, uh from this was in the Juno Journal of Food Engineering in 2009. And another good uh one is uh getting the name of it for you, uh for cooking of it is the influence of hydrothermal treatment on rheological and cooking characteristics of fresh egg pasta by a uh nuviari. Um but if you go to that first egg one, they say that actually if you adjust for the amount of water that's in the egg product that you're doing, that adding egg uh increases the uh the structure of the dough, something like fresh pasta, because you're increasing the protein content.
And in fact, the protein content, the most important one of them is from the white, is the ovalbumin, and that's what's forming the structure that's causing it to be firmer and have that firmer feeling of an of an egg pasta. Now, uh the homemade rather egg pasta, right? Uh so if you account for the water, the more egg yolk that you add, right, the um the less firm it is uh and uh the less firm it is when it's cooked, the softer it is, and the radically higher the fat content is. My feeling is is that is that people who say it's harder are making a lower hydration dough than they would normally make by using egg yolks and taking advantage of the plasticizing effect and the lubricating effect of the fat in the egg yolk, and it's allowing them to make what they can uh uh a more workable dough that is firmer because it's gonna have a fundamentally lower moisture content, and that's my feeling, but I'm gonna try to do a little more research on it and get back to it uh on next week, or maybe if we can get Mark. And on the way out, uh we had a uh final call, and we actually someone sent us this on the Twitter beforehand, but um Don't tell them why, just tell them to call it.
All right. Oh, yeah. I'm not gonna tell you, but uh I'm not gonna tell you uh why to why to do this, all right? But Damon Sisko wants you to call. Uh where's the number, Stas?
Do you have it on the thing? But the number got erased off my phone. Oh, no, you might have it. Hold on. Just a minute.
All right, Stas is gonna tell you to dial this number. It's not, it's not unpleasant, it's not, it's not pornographic, it's not gonna charge you any money. Doesn't cost any money. Nastasha's about to read you a telephone number, and when she reads it, I want you to write this number down, and then I want you to call it. 719 266 2837.
One more time. 719 266 2837. Have a good week, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network.
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