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Today's show is brought to you by Searsucker Brooklyn. For more information, visit Searsucker Brooklyn.com. Hi, this is Joe Campanelli, the host of In the Drink. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradio network.org for thousands more.
Cooking issues. Cooking issues! Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to the live from Roberta's Pizzery in Bushwig Brooklyn Finally back in Bushwick. How you doing, Stas?
Good. Yeah, Stas back in the studio. It's been about it's been a full month since we've been uh live in the studio. Jack, uh, how you doing over there? Yeah, I've been lonely, let me tell you.
Oh, now you're just making me feel good. You know how sad it was to do cooking issues just with you and Stas on the phone? Well, uh see no what else I heard, like we used up all of the uh all of the phone lines. Someone tried to call in. I heard later that someone tried to call in and they couldn't because of the whole, you know, we were just sucking up the phone.
Hogging up the phone bandwidth. Just sucking that crap up. All right. Well, listen. Uh so we also have with us in the studio today, Moses.
What's your last name, Moses? Moses Jarena. Moses what? Moses Jarena. Jarena?
Here, I'll get yourself a mic, Blossom. So no one gets to hang out here without me pestering them. So what is it that what is it that you do here at the Heritage Radio? I just take care of the social media stuff. Yeah?
Yeah. Yeah, so you like what does that what does that mean? Well, like live tweeting during the shows, taking pictures, you know, general PR stuff. Yeah. I saw well and you're you're on the at Heritage Radio?
Yeah. All right, so listen. Let's say you have a job. I don't know, but you're listening to this on earphones or something. Why don't you instead of live tweeting your questions in, you can tweet a question to Moses at at Heritage Radio.
What's a what's our full handle there? At Heritage Radio? Heritage underscore radio. At heritage underscore radio. You tweet that in, and that's as good as calling, because I don't know, maybe you can't call.
Maybe you're somewhere where you can't call, but you want to tweet in a question. You can live tweet in a question, and Moses will read it uh to me on the air, and then we'll uh we'll go from there. Or you can call in your questions to 718497-2128. That's 718497-2128. Uh so how you been, Stas?
Good. Yeah? Anything anything good or bad happening? Nope. Nothing?
Nope. Nothing? All right. How about you? Well Yeah, what happened to you?
Uh okay, so I've been gone for a number of reasons, but the reason we weren't in the studio last week is I was recovering from a minor minor bout of this surgery. It all happens to us as we uh as we get older. Uh but the good thing about well, the bad thing about the recovering from uh this particular surgery is that uh I was kind of laid up for a number of days and I couldn't really do anything. And I, you know, you're you know how like your mind is kind of scrambled when you're recovering, so it's not like I could do real work. But what I could do is watch Netflix.
And so uh what what I ended up watching, Columbo. I watched like an insane amount of Columbo, and there's there's an insane amount of Columbo actually on on Netflix for you to watch. Stas, you ever watch Columbo? No. No?
It's in LA. Do you Rockford Files? No. Do you watch any of the LA based? Do you care about anything?
Like what did you what LA Stas, by the way, from the LA area. So this is like not what what LA based TV shows did you watch, if any? Uh Melrose Place. I never watched that kind of crap. Columbo, Columbo's amazing.
Jack, Columbo? No, sorry. Jesus. Moses? Wasn't that during like the 40s or something?
The 40s! The 40s! I have heard of it though. Oh my god. First of all, okay, for those of you out there, it's a little bit slower than modern kind of mystery things because you know, back then people could they had what what do they call that thing?
Attention span. People had attention spans back in the uh 70s. But uh Columbo is like the greatest character ever by one of my favorite actors of all time, Peter Falk, sadly dead. Uh, but Peter Falk, you glass eye. I love any actor with a glass eye.
Stuz, you know I love a glass eye. Love a glass eye. Anywho, Peter Falk has a glass eye, and by the way, he used to he like, he was hilarious with it. He got his glass eye when he was a kid. I think it was an accident, and one of the things he used to do was uh he would play baseball, and like if he didn't like the call, he would literally pop his glass eye out and hand it to the ump.
How sweet is that? It's so sweet. Anyway, uh, so Columbo, what's awesome about it is Columbo is like a study in 1970s kind of class warfare. So Columbo is this detective who's like, he's wrong, he's rumpled, he's got the he's got the coat on, he drives a really crappy Peugeot that like no one else drives. It's like all beat up and mangled, and he never and he has a really crappy dog that won't do anything that he says.
Uh and so he has this kind of real rumpled mess thing going on, and all of the murderers that Columbo deals with are kind of rich, either rich, really rich, really smart, really snooty, some combination of like upper crust, and he sits there and kind of systematically takes them down with his like insane like logic. He's like the detective version of a Socrates, who's also an ugly man, by the way, Socrates. Ugly man and kind of you know, like kind of weird look weird. Anyway, so Columbo, amazing show, amazing, but uh there's kind of there's one that I really want to focus on, the reason I'm bringing it up on cooking issues, uh, because otherwise why would I be talking about Columbo, right? Is uh in season seven, I made it all the way through seven seasons.
Season seven, which is the last one on Netflix, 1978, there's an episode called Murder Under Glass. Now, if you're a cook, you got to watch Murder. Well, if you're a cook who cares about like old-style, uh old-style cooking, you have to watch Murder Under Glass. My pri like, you have yeah, do we have have we talked about Who's Killing the Great Chefs of Europe? No.
All right, who's killing anyone seen Who's Killing the Great Chefs of Europe? No. Another great 70. That's a movie, a great movie from the 70s, where uh the shtick is that this guy, I'm not gonna ruin it for you about why, but like all of these the great chefs of Europe, duh, are getting murdered. But here's the awesome part.
They're getting murdered uh using the techniques that uh that are used to make their signature dishes, right? So I'll give you I'll give you one of the signature dishes, pressed duck. I'll leave it there, pressed duck. Uh I'll give you another one. Ice cream bomb.
Great, great, great. Anyway, but like, so that's one of my favorite movies for like seeing uh a particular style of food manufactured that you don't necessarily get to see anymore because they're putting it in in movie format. Now, the common movies that we look at to to see kind of crazy over the top food stuff would be what? Like Le Grand Beauf, which has uh my man Marcel Mastriani, where they're all eating each each other to death, they eat to they eat themselves to death. But it's not really I mean, it's not so interesting from a gastronomic standpoint, like what they're what they're what they're eating necessarily.
The Bad Bats Feast, obviously, classic Cook Thief Wife Lover, but I'm not so into seeing someone like you know, uh the Peter Eaters, which is I guess how you describe the end of that movie. You've seen Cook Thief Wife Lover, right? Do you like that movie? I don't remember it well. You don't remember how can you not remember you seen this thing, Moses?
No, I have Jack? Sorry, we were striking out too. Anywho. We don't have a lot of time. Oh, oh yeah.
Oh, don't have a lot of time. You didn't have a lot of time when you were when you were 12 with to watch a movie. I mean, what the hell are you talking about? I didn't have a lot of time the entire time I've been alive. Give me that crap.
That's okay. I don't have I hate that crap. That's such New York crap. I don't have the time to go watch a movie. This movie's been out since before you were freaking born, Stas.
You had all of your freaking life to watch it. I choose not to watch. All right, you choose not to watch it. Not that I don't have time. I choose not to watch it.
That's much more reasonable. Anyway. The awesome thing about this Columbo. Oh, I watched Melrose Place. I have the time for freaking Melrose Place.
Not time for freaking, you know, like uh like whatever, I'm not gonna get into it. But the uh Melrose Place, really time worthy pursuit right there. Anyways. If anybody wants to sponsor a viewing party, we can maybe facilitate this. I would love to do that.
You know, uh, like I was going to I have to do this thing in Toronto Film Festival, uh, where the movie that I'm a food-based movie, and like all the good ones that like Willy Wonka, which is like one of my all-time, or Charlie Chuck, I can never remember the not the depth one, the other one, although I love depth. Like uh the Gene Wilder, which you've seen that one, right? Yeah, definitely, yeah. One of God's great movies. That's an amazing movie.
Life-changing movie. Chocolate, dwarfs, amazing. Uh has everything. Yeah, everything, everything you can want. It has.
It has like kids turning into blueberries. I mean, it's classic, you know. Uh it's got Gene. I know you love Gene Wilder styles. She's shaking her head up and down.
She's giving the happy stars face, which is rarely seen, but Gene Wilder, I mean, come on now. Gene Wilder? I mean, Gene Wilder. Anyway. So uh that was taken.
I got stuck with Soylent Green, which I like Charlton Heston, right? But I mean, I don't know, Soylent Green. You seen that movie? It's made of people. You familiar with the It's Made of People line?
You've seen Saturday Night Live. No, yes, I I I'm familiar with that line. All right, yeah, it's made of yes, because Soil and Green, the the I don't know why I'm getting into this. But Soil Green is like the idea is that everyone's eating this food and it's made it's made of people, and uh so they're crushing people up in this kind of futuristic thing and then turning them into food to feed other people. Hello, it's called perpetual motion machine that can't work, that can't work.
It's like Ponzi, it's pyramid scheme. You can't crush people to feed people because like you know, it all of like almost right away you would run out of people. Think of how much food you eat every day, you know what I mean, over the course of a year. I mean, like it's unsustainable, even a couple of years. What?
He said it wouldn't work. Wouldn't work. Not even for a couple of years, it wouldn't work. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, as a supplement, maybe, right?
I mean, as a don't waste, as is, you know, as a as a you know, as a don't waste the the meat policy, maybe, but not as an actual, like, you know, regular staple component of your diet. It doesn't make sense. That's like when you see gerbils and you have too many gerbils in a cage and they start eating each other, no one makes it out alive. It's not a situation where you know it's like, oh, you know, I'll I'll eat you will all ten of us will eat one gerbil today and then tomorrow we'll quit. No, it doesn't work that way.
Anyway, back to Colombo. So in this murder under glass, the the the murderer is a restaurant critic in San Francisco in LA, I guess, uh, in the um in the 70s, in the late 70s, 1978. And Columbo is like uh because he's solving the murder of one of the great chefs uh of the of the community there, all the other chefs feed him amazing food, and the entire episode is one amazing long kind of food porn from the 70s, and it's kind of food that you don't see uh, you know, nowadays for the for the most part. And uh what's really awesome about it was is just like the breadth of crazy stuff. For instance, they had fugu in it.
Now who was thinking of Fugu back? You know, Fugu's the poison puffer fish from uh from uh you know in Japanese food. And who the hell in the 70s in the US was thinking about fugu? Uh puffer fish? But not only did they talk about it, not only did they have a puffer fish there, but uh they served a full-on uh fugu course at uh at this dinner that they had, and it was done right.
I don't know if you have you guys ever seen a plate of fugu? I've seen it on the Simpsons, actually. And did they do it right? It's like they look like feathers almost like the fugu. So puffer fish is kind of stretchy, right?
And so they sli slice it thin and it's almost like these kind of like feathered out, it's like on a on like a large kind of circular plate, and it's feathered out in almost like a like a like a like a dahlia kind of effect or like a peacock kind of effect where like the pieces are kind of overleafed on each other and feathered up. And damn it, they did it like dead on. They did it like dead. In fact, Fugu poison was the the the poison of choice in this uh in this Colombo episode but then they they had like this amazing looking pantone they had like a bunch of foie gras stuff which back in the 70s was rare in the US like uh but then he goes to a dinner at a French restaurant and they bust out all of the sick like present presentation stuff from like some of my favorite books. So uh and this is what kind of they for instance like they do a rock lobster that's been eviscerated cooked and then the meat layered in aspect and decorated all the down the down the back of it with the pr sick presentations like salmon uh you know on I speak with truffles like all like all the old school all the old school stuff so you have to watch it just for that but what it made me think of is old books and uh have we done a lot of old book talking on here on the on uh some like like what what have we talked about I don't know you don't know because you're reading another book right now another old book right now if we could talk about it instead of paying attention even when Nastashi doesn't bring her computer she cannot be bothered to pay attention to what's going on in the show she's literally reading a book that I was reading on the subway on the way over here right now instead of paying attention what's going on.
We got a caller. Oh all right well we'll get back to the old books on a minute caller you're on the air hey Dave how you doing doing all right very well uh my name is Antoine just on in from Boca Tone Florida. Nice boca I I'm in fact wearing Florida uh garb right now I have on a uh linen guayaba yeah no way yeah hell yeah hell yeah I got my I got my uh my Spanish uh boss hog my El Jefe de Cerdo outfit on I have a Panama hat I was walking over here with my linen guayabera I'm all set what's up yeah, I was gonna ask actually to a previous episode you had done where you had mentioned you went to uh Boca and I just wanted to see if there's any places you ever recommended here. That's one question. The second is I always like making sushi at home, but I don't like purchasing like expensive sushi grade tuna.
And I was wondering what level of contamination you think there is if I was to go to Whole Foods and just buy their fish and make it with that. Well, I mean, I'm sure like if you see a piece of tuna that I mean, look, let me put it this way. The sushi tuna the the tuna that is used, the high-end tuna that's used out there for for sushi, it it it has as much or more mercury as anything else that you're you're gonna get, right? Because um they're all kind of unsustainably captured and um so the f the first question is is like we're talking like real tuna like blue like bluefin, the first question is whether or not you want to actually deal in the market with that because it's seriously, seriously, seriously overfished right now. But uh in terms of the mercury, like the the issue with any sort of top chain predator fish like a like a tuna is that um as long as they're eating stuff in the wild, that they're bioaccumulators.
So the the bigger they are and the older they are, the more mercury they're gonna have in them. And that's why if you see these kind of low mercury or mercury-free tuna in cans, all they're really doing is they're getting younger tuna that haven't had the time to bioaccumulate uh as much mercury. So there's that on the on the mercury contamination. Now, as far as bacterial contamination, also this shouldn't be too much of an issue with a whole muscle fish because uh bacteria is only gonna get into the inside of a fish where it's been jabbed or or poked. So now you got two remaining uh questions, and that is the quality of the fish in general, and then uh the second thing is the actual kind of taste quality.
So what happens to fish as it gets too old is that it um you know it starts oxidizing, it starts losing its textural properties. And that's where it's kind of like in terms of uh in terms of the the muscle quality, uh the actual taste, muscle quality, texture, and the kind of oxidative stress that the muscle's gone through. That's where the really expensive tuna is gonna start breaking free from the less expensive tuna, right? So, like a really, really fancy uh piece of tuna, not only is it like a high high quality muscle, but it's been treated right. For instance, like tuna that's is just destined to become sushi, they uh usually they're in uh a farm which is a misnomer, it's not really farmed.
What they do is they capture wild tuna and then they uh fatten them up in pens. Uh but they what they do is they send divers out every day to dive around in the pools, at least they used to. I haven't researched it in a couple of years. They send divers to swim around in the pools with harpoons all all day every day so that these tuna get used to seeing these human divers like going around. And then when it comes time to harvest one, actually I they use yeah, they're electric stun harpoons.
They would they would hit them with the thing, which gives them uh uh an electric jolt. The electric jolt is very finely tuned to not snap the spine, because if it snaps the spine uh or you know is too violent uh on the convulsions, you can get blood spots in the meat, and that kind of ruins uh that section of the meat in terms of its uh marketability. Then they bring the sh uh fish on board and they perform eachime where they put the needle through the spine, they do the bleed out and they put the needle through the spine. So all of those effects tend to increase the muscle quality greatly, but they also tend to increase the price. So they're only gonna do that kind of work on tuna that's destined for a high-end kind of a sushi operation.
So right away the f the texture of the flesh is gonna be a lot better in that situation. Also, when you're dealing with tuna, especially the fattier portions, which are, you know, kind of f you know, uh like underneath and forward on the tuna. Like those those pieces, uh, you want to leave them whole uh as long as possible because any time they're exposed to oxygen, they go under oxidative stress. So if you have someone in Whole Foods who's planking the stakes out like, you know, like uh, you know, the day before or something like that, then all of a sudden you get a lot more oxidation on that surface of the fish and it's not the oils aren't gonna taste as good. Not as big of a deal in like the leaner cuts of tuna, but a much bigger deal in the fattier cuts of tuna.
Is that makes sense? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So you can definitely do it, but another thing to do is to just, you know, find whatever kind of like local speci like so many species of fish are actually good for uh sashimi and for sushi, but they're just you know, they're not used uh so widely because maybe they're not available in Japan. You know what I mean?
And so like y they just maybe haven't been used to uh to great effect yet because there's not a a culture of it. So, you know, I don't know what what's coming in right now in uh in Florida that's considered like you know uh good and and sustainable, but I would find something that comes in off of uh, you know, a day boat there that you know is kept like on ice the entire time and then Yeah, we we typically get grouper here, like that's a really good cut. Uh I love I love grouper, but if there's have they start are they start I love grouper, but have they started getting grouper that they actually feel is like sustainable to harvest or no? Uh well I mean like they do all wild cog here, so no, it's not quite sustainable yet. Right.
But I mean it is our freshest catch that we get here often. And what was the other one? Um, no, that was the other one I was just saying, I I usually take on a like I I'm usually more concerned about the contamination part. So like I'll often do like uh prouvi and cevicha, you know, and then put that inside of a roll instead so that I cooks it more than anything else. Right.
I mean uh look, you know, if you if you I would just find like a fish like a fish uh monger that you you trust, especially if you can see the whole fish. Look, if you can see the whole fish before they before they uh chop it up, I mean like you know, it's what they what they always taught me, and I I still believe it is that you know you can if you if you can look at the gills and the eyes, then you can trust a fish. You know what I'm saying? So if you yeah, so it's like c clear eyes and and bright gills. Once the gills start going, like that's when you know that you're you know you're not dealing with you're dealing with something that's been uh sitting around uh a while.
So um, you know, although I mean that that's generally what what I look for. So if you if you have the ability to check out the gills and the and the and the eyes, you know, then uh you know, and obviously see whether or not you you could tell also, like I see a lot of fish that uh even though it's fresh, it got the hell beat out of it on the boat. You know what I mean? And so you can see that the body is like mangled and like you can see like like damage from like literal impact damage on the sides of the fish. And you know, uh the that fish will be fresh, but it won't necessarily the muscle in that area won't necessarily be as good, and it's also indicative of other stress the fish probably went through during uh catch and slaughter that might lead to uh deterioration of qualities.
Is that make sense? Yeah, for sure. So that's that was excellent. I also was wondering if you recommend any places to eat when you're in bulk or the South Florida region. You know, uh we didn't I didn't really uh eat out much.
I was uh I I last time I was there I did a dinner with um or like an event with Chef Jeremiah Bullfrog, who's awesome. Uh so you know, obviously I I like I like him. Uh but we we spent most of I spent most of my time uh just eating as much kind of rare fruit as is humanly possible. And so, you know, down in South Dade I was going to um I mean the fruit and spice park, which I think is amazing. And then also trying to go to the fair child to eat as much of the mango stuff that they had a as they had uh possible.
And you know, I even went to uh what's that place called Stars Roberts? Remember that fruit fruit stand we went to Robert's new I saw it the other day um I can't remember. Yeah, which is like it's really expensive but they have like all the cool all the cool kind of fruit down there. So like literally I was just soaking in uh fruit and then like my actual meals 'cause my family went down with me is like, you know, the my wife, like when I'm especially when my kids are there, when they're there, like I don't really go out to any kind of f fancy stuff. I go to what's easy for for the kids and then spend most of my kind of research time on uh on like the rare fruits that you can't get.
You know what I mean? Totally. Well with that being said I've I've called in before twice and you've always been very helpful and you've given me such great free knowledge. I'd love to return the favor. So I mean if there's something I I have my family in Peru, I'd love to send you other something from there or from here.
Just give me a quest, I'd love to send it. Nice whether it be beer or whatever. That's awesome. I mean someday I'll someday I'll get to go to Peru. It's like you know one of the obviously great culinary uh it's like one of the great culinary stops in the world these days and uh you know it's just I've haven't been able to go yet.
Someday I'll go. I mean apparently it's just uh you know everyone tells me that it's amazing and just getting better and better. I mean if you'll you listen to it. I would love to recommend my family just started one of the first craft breweries over there. Really?
Well, shoot shoot uh shoot me over a tweet at Cooking Issues and uh so you know, so I have your handle and we'll uh we'll stay in touch on that. Please, uh like I said, I'd love to send you something. It's the least I can do for all the knowledge you've given me and everyone else, and it's the least I could do from one food to another. Alright, well, I appreciate it, brother. Thanks so much.
You guys have a great one. Thank you. That sounds like a great idea. Alright, we'll be right back with more cooking issues. We'd like to send a special thank you to our latest business member, Seersucker.
Seersucker is a 40-seat neighborhood spot inspired by the food and hospitality of the South. Chef owner Robert Newton, who hails from Arkansas, has crafted a cuisine inspired equally by his childhood favorites and the Carroll Street green market across the street. He relies upon small local farms and indie purveyors for many of his ingredients. So the menu changes frequently based on what's available and in season. Searsucker's beer, wine, and spirits list is all American with an emphasis on New York State.
Learn more by visiting their website, Searsucker Brooklyn.com. To learn more about becoming a business member, email us. Info at heritage radio network.org. Hey, see, Jack, now I thought Seersucker, I was gonna like go buy some Seersucker suits, and that's why I was even more grooving on the whole boss hog thing when I was wearing like, you know, the the guy vera, because I thought we were gonna like all of a sudden we're like all gonna be dressed in seersucker suits. We could go to Searsucker dressed in seersuckers.
You want to? I think we should. I mean, my most of my Sears I have two Seersucker jackets, both of which were ruined. When you so for those of you that go to Tales of the Cocktail, which is kind of the New Orleans, like, you know, booze soaked debauched cocktail thing that you know we all have to go to every year if you're in the business. Uh like one of the things you're supposed to eventually do is wear a seersucker.
It's happened to me twice that someone has poured a freaking like staining cocktail on me during that during that event. Week. Week. So both my both my both my seersucker jackets are uh they're kind of kind of ruined. Stas won't let me wear them.
Was that the one Stas where you said I thought we agreed that you weren't going to wear that anymore? I don't remember. Remember I had one jacket that had been too stained that I really loved. And you're like, I wore it to some shoot, and Stas is like, I thought we had agreed that you would not wear that anymore. Alright.
Actually, so I was gonna get into some books. Oh, I do have one request, though. It's not Peruvian. If anyone out there, you guys familiar with the sweet gum tree? Sweetgum?
Anyone? No. Jack, where'd you grow up again? New York. Sweetgum tree, dude.
Come on. Sweet, you know sweet crum tree? Okay, it's the one that it's the one that drops the little balls that look like they came from minesweeper. I'm looking at this, yep. Yeah, okay.
It's got a leaf that looks a little bit like a maple, but not, and it drops the little minesweeper balls on the ground. Yeah, there's a lot of those sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the tree, the sweet gum tree, uh Dax loves sweet gum trees because he sucks on the uh on the leaves.
He's like, it has a taste, it has a flavor. Would you like some flavor? Have a sweet gum leaf. And he starts eating them. He doesn't really talk like that because he's a little, so he didn't you know his voice is a little more, but it's kind of like that.
You've heard Dax, he talks like that. Anyways. So the sweet gum tree, uh, which everyone knows I can't pronounce things, so in uh it's uh liqu liquid umbar uh styracophlua is the uh is the uh name of that thing. But uh you can harvest resin from the sweet gum tree that's supposed to be sweet and like good to kind of chew, but I I don't have the ability to harvest any of it because I don't have land with my own trees that I can kind of you can you kind of you know you cut away a section of the bark you let it drip and then you harvest it and it dries out I think it turns into this kind of uh sweet thing but if anyone who can hear the sound of my voice has access to some uh sweet gum resin I will gladly buy some because I'm dying to try it and uh it should have already happened by now because I think they probably do it in May uh you know March April May although who knows what the season that we've had now but it it should be similar season I would guess to when um to when maple to when maple uh flow is although I don't know because I've never made it but you know or if you have access to it you know call me and like you know call in and tell me like how you make it because I just want more information. It's one of those like weird ingredients that uh that I really just have a Jones thing to try the same that like I did with hickory nuts you know a couple years ago which I still love oh hickory nuts.
And um you know and some other like you know I've never had an actual American persimmon. You ever had one? I don't think so. The wild American persimmon I would anyone that has access I would like some I will pay for them. Another one is a I don't know if there are any but I'd love to try uh like an actual American chestnut.
You familiar with the chestnut uh the the destruction of the chestnut tree? No. Did you know that the chestnut American chestnut was favored over all other chestnuts in terms of uh in terms of uh its taste and uh the wood they it's one was one of the most common forest trees in all of uh in all of the United States and in the span of uh 30 years both the chestnut and uh the uh the elm, the American elm, which was the most common street tree in the in the United States, were wiped out due to imported diseases from um you know from uh across, you know, from either China or or Europe or some combination of China and Europe. And so the American chestnut tree is wiped out. I mean wiped, because the funk what the fungus would do is the fungus would attack the tree and then girdle it.
So like the fungus would literally like go underneath the top bark layer around to where the the growing and the and the fluid transportation was in the xylem, grow all the way around it, plug the tree up so the tree couldn't get food anymore, and then die out. Now, chestnut trees are interesting because they ground sprout a lot. So what you'd happen is is that the main tree would die, then you'd get little trees that would come up, they would survive for 10, 15 years or something like this, and then they would die, and that would happen again and again and again. So there are American chestnut trees, but now they're kind of an understory uh tree instead of a real one. But I don't know if any of those produce nuts.
So if anyone has access to an American chestnut, I will gladly pay you for it. Also, butternuts, American but it's not the season. When it comes to being nuts season, we'll talk more about the nuts. Anyway, I don't know what I was talking about. But it but if you have the liquid an bar, if you have the sweet gum, please uh let me know.
So before we uh talk about the uh books, which because who knows whether I'll have time. You know how I get, S. You know how I get. Uh why don't we get to some of the uh questions? Chris wrote in, uh I tried fitting the uh Moses, we got anything on the Twitter yet?
Man, these people. These people. Uh I tried fitting this uh query into a tweet, but could not provide enough info. So I called in, but it turns out you're on travel today, so I'll try an email. Uh I'm hosting a Scandinavian dinner and trying to channel some inner red Zeppy.
Uh I do a 10% brine for this is the one I missed last week. Remember? Yes. Uh I I do a 10% brine first for texture and to prevent protein ooze, wrap it in birch bark seats. Uh then uh uh boiled to soften and kill the nasties and the birch bark, then sous vita 50 seed for thirty minutes and makes a nice presentation when served on the unwrapped bark and adds a little earthy note.
Um and I I'm guessing it's cod. Uh because he says he wants to double down on the cod. So, anyways. Um I want to double down on the cod, so I'm gonna create a buccal cream. This is where we left off last week because turns out stas.
What is it that you hate? Warm fish food foams? Warm fish foams? What about what about like a like a seafood, like like canel of seafood mousse? Who seafood mousse like a canela seafood mousse?
Like, what could be more delicious? What about a seafood sausage? No. Holy crap. You mean if I t if I took it?
Yeah, I'd eat it. I didn't think it's a fish. No, I would eat it because I don't wouldn't want to hear it from you, but I wouldn't like it. You've had it before. Yeah, you don't like it.
Yeah, yeah. I don't like it. Like a poached fish mousse. Yes. What does Mark say about you not liking poached fish mousse?
How is it that you don't like it? What is he doing? Seriously, what is it you don't like about it? I don't like cooked fish very much. And I don't like it whipped, and I don't like it hot.
Uh-huh. You don't like cooked fish very much. But you like cooked fish as an ingredient like anchovies. Mm-hmm. Alright.
Well, so salt cod, can you think of salt cod as more of an ingredient? Yeah, I guess so. So have you had the fritters, the bacalaitos, fritters? I haven't had those. It's like salt cod dumplings that are fried.
It's good. Real good. Stuff delicious. So you might be willing to try that because the fish is more of an ingredient and less of a main thing. So you might also be okay then with like a brandad, where the salt cod is like mixed into wait.
You're not like my son Booker and you don't like mashed potatoes, are you? I do, I do. For real? I like mashed potatoes. Okay.
So you might also be okay with like a brand where the salt cod is mixed into the mashed potatoes, but it's not about being fish. It's about being like an ingredient. Mm-hmm. Alright, so now we're getting a little more reasonable here. Now, a fish mousse, you're feeling that it's gonna be too much like a cooked fish.
Yeah. But you've had it before. Yeah. Alright, so we'll we'll we'll I'll I'll leave it there. How the hell did it even come up?
How do you how does that come up that you don't like cooked fish? What about what about fish sticks? No. Wait, you don't like fish sticks? No.
Did you ever like fish sticks? Yeah, as a kid. And then what made you stop? At what point? They're gross.
They're they're they're not gross. You can make them gross. There can be gross fish sticks, but like fried, uh delicious fried battered fish done well is like a revelation. It's one of God's great foodstuffs, battered fried fish. I mean, Moses, Jack?
Yeah, we're just saying in here there's not much better than like fried fish. It's pretty easy. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's damn simple. I'm not talking like, yeah, yeah, maybe you don't like fried tilapia because tilapia is garbage, it's swimming garbage. You know, or maybe you know, you've had like a bad fried catfish that tastes like dirt.
I can't tell, but like uh like a well-done, like battered and fried, I don't know, pick your white fish, like you know, like uh like you know, cod or place from this no? No. Because you think it's des class? No. But you used to like it when you were a kid.
Yeah, I just don't like fried fish. Oh, Jesus. Alright, okay. Back to the question. The show's over.
Yeah, it's like I'm just too depressed to go on. I'm too I'm too depressed to continue the show. I mean, I don't even understand that. Like, how do you think? Erica Wides is in here and she doesn't really like any kind of product like that, but she even likes fried fish.
Of course. I mean, everybody. And fish sticks, too. Yeah, because f all they are is a not quite as good version of a fried fish, right? So you can knock it on a quality basis, but not conceptually.
Do you know what I'm saying? But look, what I don't understand is how do you grow up liking something and then all of a sudden not like it anymore? Like did a fried fish beat the crap out of your boyfriend at prom? What the hell happened? You know what I mean?
It's like, how do you stop liking fried fish? It's not that she's a vegetarian, my friends, because that would I I could say, okay, she just gave up fish altogether. But this lady pounds sushi and crude o like like she could take the whole freaking ocean down if she wanted to. So it's not a question of that. You know what I mean?
I don't get it. Back to the question. I want to double down on the cod. So create a bacalau cream, 250 mils of heavy cream, 250 grams salt cod, rehydrated and chopped, 250 grams rrrissit potatoes, cooked, blend in Vitamix and strain well. Uh you better strain well if you're gonna put it through an EC because uh anything can clog an EC, even like little like you know, too much vanilla seeds can you know, if you get it clumped can clog an easy.
For service, I want hot whipped cream texture from this, so I strain into an EC and charge with N2O. I hold it at 50 degrees Celsius or 70, no change in texture. It comes out well enough and attractive foam, somewhere between shaving foam. I like that word. You like that word, Sas?
Shaving foam. Shaving foam. Shaving foam and whipped cream. Uh likes it when I put a bunch of H's in them. Whi whipped uh whipped cream, but rather quickly defades into an uninspiring blob.
Stas hates blobs, right? What do you hate more? An uninspiring blob or a leaf fungus? Oh god, you know. Uh leaf fungus.
Uh if I dispense from the EC at cool room temperature, it holds its shape well. So the heat is causing the foam matrix to destabilize and collapse. Any suggestions how to stabilize this? I expect gelatin will be too soft at 50 to 70. How about agar agar?
I've also got Xanthan, but that's the extent of any of my monitor's pantry. Thanks, Chris. Either one will work. If you're gonna do the agar, what I recommend you do is you make a fluid gel of the agar just a little bit in water, do a one percent fluid gel in water and uh dope that in. You're only going to need a little bit to stabilize what what you're doing, uh, most likely.
Or if you want, you can make an agar fluid gel with the whip with the cream itself, but don't make it too stiff in that case. You want it like kind of a l like a lighter fluid gel somewhere in the in the in the range of like uh oh like uh yeah seven tenths of a percent, six tenths of a percent, something like this. Yeah, not even, maybe like ha because it's already holding, right? So you only need a little bit of holding power. So I would say maybe like five grams per liter on the cream, five to seven grams per liter.
Try somewhere in there of agar agar. Uh Xanthan will also do it. You can also do a light fluid gel on the agar and then add a little Xanthan uh to it to firm it up. You just want to the here's the big issue. Whenever you're doing uh an ISI with a fluid gel, remember that uh it will hold itself in the ISI.
So first of all, whenever you do a fluid gel, blend the crap out of it in the Vita prep because it needs to be smooth. Otherwise, it's not a fluid gel, it's just a bunch of little shards of crystals that don't look good. Also, put your finger over the uh uh over the EC whip, over the dispenser on the EC whip every time you're gonna dispense. Flick down, and that'll make sure that all of the fluid gel gets slapped down to where the dispensing nozzle is so that you can dispense properly. Otherwise, kind of no love.
But either of those two things uh should work uh without without too much uh trouble because all you're looking to do is hot stabilize and and uh agar will hot stabilize easily up to 70 degrees Celsius. I wouldn't go much higher because the agar is gonna start to melt in around the 85 in the 80 range, but like if you literally are using a circulator to hold it at 70, it's gonna be no problem. So that uh should work. Yeah? Like that says?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Good answer. She doesn't care. Uh Alex in Toronto writes in, dear Dave, Nastasha, and Jack.
And now Moses. I stumbled across this video, uh, which there's a link, which you can't see because you're listening to this on the radio, but maybe we'll put it on the uh we'll put it on the thing. I stumbled across, I'll say a video, how about that? I stumbled across a video which describes making a rapid infusion sangria using a cheap uh using the cheap vacuum wine savers. Trade name VacuVan.
Uh I would assume this will never suck a vacuum powerful enough to compare with the machines you are used to, but I was wondering if you could give me some sense of how this technique could be used by an extremely frugal home cook. The video claims to create an infusion in about five minutes similar to a 24 hour infusion at atmospheric pressure. If this is true, this would be only slightly slower than E uh EC rapid infusion. Any insights, thoughts or ideas? And here is the link and this will be useless to you.
H T P H T T P colon forward forward U2 dot boo forward slash E D L P U L B M U J W. Well it turns out I watched this video and Stas, you will not believe who uh did the video. It's our boy Clifford Endo Gulliber who's awesome. I love that guy. He's like he's like our he's uh he's our giant Palauan friend.
Uh and he works now for the Food Network. So if you look up uh food network um food network like you know I don't know Vacuvan Sangria Clifford you should be able to to find this video. And Clifford uh actually was one of our interns back at the French Culinary Institute and uh even though Stas was incredibly mean to him when when he started to uh I believe Stas's exact words when when the because about like three or four people came that first day when he was there, right? And Cl Cliff like loves to, and by the way, Cliff is mentioned in the cocktail book because the Cliff old fashioned is you know was his idea to use that coriander syrup to do the old fashioned. And so he's actually in the cocktail book because we have the Cliff Old Fashion in the cocktail book.
Anyway, Stas was like uh Stas was like just like my grandma, we're letting everybody in. Literally, what you said. First of all, why are you calling really bad about what I said about saying you feel bad for Cliff or you feel bad for your grandma? Cliff. Whoa!
So like still still throwing some still throwing some slut down on your grandma. No, that wasn't it's no, no. She would like take people in and help, you know, help poor people and stuff. Oh, that wasn't the implication that you gave at the time. You gave the implication that like any guy shows up and it's community chess grandma.
That's what you that's that's the way Cliff took it. That's why Cliff was like double horrified. Oh jeez, no. Cliff was like double horrified because his first time he's meeting you, and it's like, I can't believe that this lady's dogging her grandma this way. And which I frankly couldn't believe either.
And then at the same time, like being so mean to him before, and by the way, Cliff, extremely awesome guy, like you know, artist, and like, you know. For the first like three months, we just had him move boxes. That is not the case. That is not the case. Anyways, so yes, so the uh the uh using the vacuvan as an infusion technique is a technique developed a long time ago at the French culinary, and but Clifford is using it to good effect to make a sangria, and he actually I looked at the video, he's got some uh elaborations on the technique that uh I don't know.
I I like his style because similar to like the way I I was saying things, like if he won if he see the average person like doesn't pay attention, right? Right? Obviously, like Stas is not paying attention right now. Like, literally, right now, Stas is not paying attention. That is the biggest crap.
Oh, I hate that argument that people say they can multitask. You can't multitask. That's why, like, that's why last week when on the radio, I was like, Hey, Studz, you're like, oh, I don't know, I didn't hear you because I was trying to do an email. You don't, you're not multitasking. I know that's you're null tasking.
People who multitask actually null task. They're getting nothing done. They're called called zero tasking. It's a new thing that I want people to be aware of in the world nowadays, where people try to do so many damn things that they actually do nothing. Like the fact that people are buried in their freaking phones, which I hate.
They're buried in their freaking phones. And when you're buried in your phone, right? I guarantee you that the person that you're now texting, when you're with them, you're buried in your phone texting me. It makes no damn sense. Null tasking.
Do some damn work. This is why people get frustrated with me. They hate me because uh I don't ever answer emails, I don't return telephone calls or any of this stuff. And the reason is is because when I'm with you, I'm with you. You know what I'm saying?
Anyways, it's because I'm old. It's because I'm freaking old. Uh back to Clifford. So uh so he does a sangria where he puts the uh the wine and some fruit juice and some sugar back in the wine bottle. Uh and the the trick, the whole trick when you're using the vacuvan uh to infuse things is to chop things small enough so that they can fit into the wine bottle and so you can shake them back out again.
And then he then, what I like about it is he he ba he basically beats you over the head, which I think is wise because as I said, people aren't paying attention. So he tells you to suck, suck some more, suck, suck some more, suck some more, and then you know, you know, with the vacuum. You know what I'm talking about, Stas? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what am I talking about?
Vacuum, sucking the wine in it. Alright, right. So, like uh sucking uh have to test her like this, like a little child, like like my 10-year-old. Uh so you're sucking out suck some more, and then he says, and when you're done sucking, suck some more, which I appreciate. This is good advice from Clifford.
But then he has this uh technique where he says to lay it on its side to infuse. Now, what you're doing there, by the way, with the vacuvan, is you're just uh it vacuuman is not very good at sucking a vacuum, like in terms of the actual absolute level of vacuum that it can suck, but the advantage that you have if you suck for minutes at a time time on it, is that you're constantly drawing air out of the fruit. In this case, he put apples into the sangria. You're constantly drawing air out the entire time you're doing it. And uh so even though you never get a very good vacuum, you're constantly removing air from the bottle, and therefore you're sucking more and more air out.
This is what's allowing the infusion to happen, is the fact that you let the air out. So then he rests it on its side. And I don't really know why. After the next time I talked to Clifford, I don't know why he tells you to rest the bottle on its side. That's kind of like the elaboration that I didn't I I hadn't thought about before.
I don't really know why he did it. We used to agitate it, shaking back and forth, but I don't know why he laid it outside. Anyways, I'm sure he's got a good reason. It has to be maybe he tested it maybe, or that's better for surface area contact ratio, something like this. Too many warning.
All right. So then he pop then he you pop it, which he didn't show. When you pop it, that's when the actual sangria stuff is getting injected in. Uh and then if you want, you can actually suck another round on it. But I guess the food network didn't want to do that because there's too much instruction, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But anyway, yes, that is a technique you can use. No, it's not quite as good as a uh commercial vacuum machine, but it sure beats nothing. And uh it's not also quite the same as ISI, which you can use. In fact, we did a sangria uh being a vacuum machine, we didn't, but uh Mara from Booker and Dax did it at the uh NRA, not the gun version, the uh National Restaurant Association show. But I'm sure at the at the Rifle Association, they would also appreciate a vacuum-infused sangria, right?
Because what goes better with shooting guns than some sangria, right? I guess beer. I guess like your first choice is beer, but then in the summer, if you didn't want a beer, like if you'd already had a beer or you wanted something else and you were gonna shoot guns, sangria might be a nice choice. Jack, what do you think about guns and sangria? Are you for it?
I'm not a huge sangria guy. Really? Or a gun guy. Yeah. You don't like sh you're wait.
Wait. Well, after that shooting that happened this weekend, I don't really think we should talk about that. Wow. Stas. Jesus Christ.
That's a whole nother show. That's a whole nother show. That's another show. Like the fact of the matter is is that I'm not going to get into it now because now Stas is trying to make me feel bad. But we will talk about it later.
They like the fact of the matter is is that target shooting is fun. No? I've just never done it. Yeah, it sounds fun. Yeah.
Moses. Never done it. I would want to if I had a chance. Yeah. Um, but again, I hadn't even thought about that because I haven't been watching the news, so probably a bad time to talk about it.
Um, in the uh one minute I have left, uh, the books that I was talking about that the Colombo episode reminded me of were uh the modern French Culinary Art, which is a uh version of the Pella Pratt book. Pella Pratt was one of the was one of the great cookbooks. Uh he was the guy who started the Court and Blue cooking school in the 1800s, and he wrote this book, which I think came out in the 20s or 30s at the end of his career, and it's kind of one of the key kind of cookbooks. It's awesome. In fact, Jacques Popin uh listed that as one of his favorite possessions was his Pella Pratt when he was an apprentice in his book The Apprentice.
It's an amazing cookbook, fantastic. And the best edition for English speakers that I've ever seen is the one that was put out in the 70s by Virtue and Co. Uh, and I bought it back in the day at the Strand. Strand uh bookstore, you know, like like 15, 20 years ago, wasn't air conditioned, and so you walked in there and everyone was viciously mean to you. And but there also wasn't a lot, like things were really cheap.
They were like half price off the cover, and there wasn't a lot of searching about and trying to figure out the true value of a book, unless it was a real collector's book. So you could get things ridiculously cheap, ridiculously cheap. And so I was there looking for uh LaRoos Gastronomique was one of my one of the cookbooks that everyone coveted back then, or books that everyone coveted back then. So I would go to the strand and search out good editions of LaRoos, because all the editions are different. And I bought, without really knowing, Peleprat uh and this this issue this uh edition from Virtue, and it is freaking amazing.
It's got all of those pictures in it, and all those pictures were shot in the 70s, and so it's kind of this amazing window into this book that was written in the 30s, 20s and 30s, with like all of the color pictures that you get from a book that was put in the 70s, but it hadn't been mangled very much because it was not it it hadn't bent to the will of like Nouvelle Cuisine or any of the other stuff that it you know was had or was going on. So it's an amazing uh record of that time. I then saw their other books, buffets and receptions, which is oh my god, ridiculous. And some of the stuff in Colombo also in that is like uh you have to see this book from the 70s, uh, and then uh The New International Confectioner. These are the three kind of books uh from them, and they're still ridiculously cheap.
I recommend going out and buying them. And then in advance of this, I went out and bought uh just this morning because these books aren't most of these books aren't collectible yet. So they're uh still extremely cheap. They're fat, fat, fat books. And if you love looking at old, like awesome, like like continental and French books, which you should if you like anything that's kind of interesting because they're just sick records.
Meat dishes meat dishes in the international cuisine. I just bought that for two bucks, cost me 11 dollars to ship it from England. Garnishing and decoration. I don't know if that one's uh as good, but I bought it. Uh Fish and Shellfish, the complete book of meat, and the only one that's so far is collectible, Herring's Dictionary of Classical and Modern Cookery, which you can still get cheaply.
For Virtue and Go, this is Cooking Issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage Underscore Radio. You can email us questions at any time at info at heritage radio network dot org.
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