Today's program has been brought to you by Fairway Market, like no other market, a New York City institution that sells the best local, national, and international artisan foods for prices that can't be beat. For more information, visit Fairway Market.com. I'm Erica Whites, host of Let's Get Real, the cooking show about finding, preparing, and eating food. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit Heritage Radio Network.org for thousands more.
Hello and welcome to the catch up edition of Cooking Issues coming to you pre-taped. Actually, we're live right now, but we're not streaming live, right now, Jack? I mean, yeah, like technically we're always live. I mean, we're not dead. Like we're here.
Yeah. Well, I mean, like, but the thing is like, that never mean what is what does that even mean then? What does live mean? Like, if we're not streaming live, right? Right.
You can't really say it's live, because live implies that, you know, no no opportunity for I guess live implies no opportunity for editing. Right. Right? Although there's always an opportunity. Yeah, but be yeah, there is always an opportunity for editing.
Uh most importantly, self-editing. Uh but the yeah, I mean, I guess it's not like we have time to edit these things anyway, right, Jack? So not really. So it might so as good as live, because we're not gonna edit it. Anything we say is just gonna show up on the screen.
But don't don't bother uh picking up your telephones and calling because we're not at the studio right now. If you're listening to this, we're not here. Right? I mean, maybe we are and if you listen to this next Tuesday at at uh if you really want to get into it, uh I'm sure that most of the time when people listen to cooking issues, we're not here either. When we're podcasting us, you know.
Right. Yeah, but hang you know, but people do call in. It's like it's like, you know, live-ish. Yeah. You know.
Heritage Radio Network, live-ish. Yeah. Well, and like radio quotes. Right. Right?
I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know. What do you think about this, does? I don't know.
I don't want to get into it. Alright, so listen, uh, we are, though, uh, as usual, joined with Nastasha, the Hammer Lopez, and Jack back from uh back from where were you, Jack? I was in Louisville, Kentucky. And how was that? It was awesome.
Yeah, where were you doing? Cool town. I spoke on a panel called Mastering the Media. And did you in fact master the media? I was supposed to help others master the media.
I told them that podcasts are the wild west, and they seem to like that. Yeah? Yeah. Alright. And so, wow.
So, like rate actual radio is like Eastern Capitalist bankers, and this is like 18. We're all in an episode of Hell on Wheels right now. Yep. Like, I definitely don't get to be Colin Bohan and somebody else, somebody else gets to be Colin Bohan and not me. Um you watch that show, Stas?
No. I like that show. You ever been to Louisville, though? It's a cool town. It's a good town.
Yeah, it really is. It's uh, you know, uh, they got things that I like a lot. They got uh your whiskey. Whiskey is delicious. They have a lot of it.
Oh, you know what else they have? You'll appreciate this. I went and uh visited the Flavor Man. They develop all the soda flavors. It's like a lab, a flavor science lab.
And is it actually one man? Well, the flavor man is one man. His name is Dave, but he's got a pretty big team working for him. Like uh it's kind of a good title. Hi, I'm Dave.
The flavor man. Yeah. Right? It's a really cool place. I'll show you photos after the show, though.
Are the were you allowed to take photos? Yeah. Yeah. They've developed, I mean, they can like some they can disclose and some they can't. They didn't grind up your camera.
Do they tell you who uh who you like do they tell you who who the clients are? They can't tell me all the clients. He's like, listen, I do all of the polar brands of soda. Oh god. Yeah.
Hey, you know what up, you know what really ticks me off, Jack, about sodas? And Stas will back me up on this. Everyone drinks these not everyone. A lot of people drink these like flavored seltzer waters. You know what I'm talking about, Jack?
It started with that, you know, rancid lemon, fake lemon lime flavor that tastes like you dripped pledge into your into your water by accident. And then it was like raspberry and black cherry. Yeah, black cherry, yeah, yeah. So here's the thing, right? I'm all for people drinking things that they like to drink.
But the smaller bottlers, and now here's what really ticks, I think Stas off, right? Yeah. You hate this. Yeah. Some of the like larger brand names like Canada Dry, uh hire independent bottlers, right, to do their their bottling.
And these people run seltzer, God's seltzer, unflavored seltzer water, right? Soda water or you know, sparkling water for those of you that have never been, you know, near New York or whatever, because some people don't know what seltzer is. Do you know that? Weird. Weird.
Um they run it through the machines that have had these rancid flavors in them, and they poison so like it's always raspberry with us, right? You crack it open and you get these like raspberry note off your seltzer, and it ruins it. It makes it taste like it's like first of all, it makes you think, oh, they're not clean, they're unclean people. And then it also it's just no good, right? Stas, what are your thoughts on this?
Terrible. Have you no have you noticed this, Jack? Yeah. What the heck is wrong with people? You know what?
I've never had uh well, look, I don't buy seltzer outside anymore unless I have to, because I you know, I make my own. But uh have you ever had that problem with vintage? Vintage. No. Uh no.
No, actually, I haven't. No, God bless a vintage seltzer corporation. Yeah, what's your seltzer of choice if you have to buy it? Oh, I mean, I'm a New Yorker, so vintage. Okay.
Because vintage was the always, it was always uh two bottles for a dollar, right? And any real seltzer drinker only buys one liter bottles because anything less is a waste because you're gonna drink uh a full liter of it, and anything more is gonna go flat. And if your friend comes over to try and drink some and they drink out of the bottle, then you have to throw away two liters because I don't want the friend drinks out of the bottle. Oh my god, you know how it is, or at a party, or they'll crack open a two-liter at the end of the night and they'll pour one small glass and then the whole thing sucks. It's like it's look, any real seltzer drinker will tell you, right?
That first of all, you you you have to drink everything you buy within about a week because you know, you want you want first of all, you want to buy it at a place that has high turnover. So the place where there's dust on top of the bottles of vintage, just ignore because plastic bottles don't hold CO2 that well and they don't last that long, right? So go to a pla you know a place that gets a good turnover of vintage, buy buy a case of one liters. Like that's the way to do it, right, Stas? Yep, yeah.
Yeah. Uh I like how we're never going to catch up because we're not gonna answer any of the questions. Well, one more thing, by the way, Sears all's are shipping now. Uh we got the notice, actually, two of them shipped on Tuesday when we did our non-catch up show. One day, or we're doing a show on Tuesday, we can talk about that then, right?
What about Peter and Emma are gonna be? Yeah, they're gonna come. But anyway, but they're shipping, but uh like we've gotten a lot of flack on the uh Kickstarter over over the how long it's taken us to get the product out. Although we're three months, we're three months late. We're three months late, which in the Kickstarter terms is like not that big of a deal.
And I guess people think because there's not a lot of moving parts that there's not a lot that can go wrong when you're trying to make a uh something like uh like the Sears All. But you're incorrect. You know? You know what happened today, Jack? Somebody said on a on the Kickstarter, they said uh uh what'd they say, S what's gonna happen next?
Uh tape on the Amazon boxes won't hold. Oh. Just lame trolling. Like, you know what? Put your pants on.
Get out of your underwear. Get out of your parents' basement. Get out of your parents' basement, go to, you know, just go outside. You know, like if you're like me and you burn, wear a hat. But get outside, walk around.
You clearly have too much time to troll me. And I, you know, I wish everyone happy searing who ordered a Searsol. Yeah. And I hope I like really all we really want is for people to enjoy the product. That's all we really want.
Is it for people to have a good product they can enjoy? We don't want it to get ruined, right? Which was, you know, we just want people to, you know, we want it to be good for people. Uh except that guy. No, and I have another one.
I hope that I hope that, you know, the tape does fall off. His Amazon tape. That's right. I hope that box is a problem though, then after that. No, once once Amazon is, yeah, I guess what's still until it's in their hands, hopefully with with tape, hopefully a tapeless box arrives mangled, but still with a pristine Searz all inside to this person's house.
And you know what? I still hope they enjoy the Sears All. Of course. I hope they enjoy it. Uh Sear in good in good health.
And with good. Oh, oh no. And then he he he or she, I don't really know. Appended uh worst Kickstarter ever. Which me makes us worse than the people.
He's a comic book guy, then. Yeah, well, makes us makes us worse than uh people who actually never delivered uh a product. You know, I was I was compared uh on Twitter. This is by someone who actually just wants a Sears all, so it's not bad. They were just getting the some agile.
They were getting some agenda, right? Bernie madoff of cooking equipment. Bernie Madoff, I mean, correct me, but more of a Ponzi scheme, right? So if it was a Bernie Madoff kind of a situation, first of all, right, I mean, like, we would have scammed first like something a lot bigger than like a sixty five sixty five dollars, Searz all. But it would work more like this: listen.
Listen. Uh you send me one screen, and then I'm gonna get two people to send you screens, and we're just gonna keep doing this forever. Right? Two Sears all screens. That's how it would have worked.
That's if I was the Bernie Madoff of Sears all. It's a pyramid. It's a pyramid, sweet pyramid scheme. You know, pyramid schemes, like it never like ceases to amaze me how much uh people continue to love a uh pyramid scheme. You know there's a show, I don't know what network it's on.
It's called American Greed. You heard about this? I think Stacy Keach is the uh is the what's it called, the narrator for it. Remember Stacy Keach? The uh actor?
I I don't. I think it's him. He's he's played detective. He played like like Mike Hammer. Uh, you know, your namesake.
And um and so he narrates this thing on American Greed, and it's all about swindlers who have ripped people off with like things that are too good to be true, and it turns out they are too good to be true, and it's always like it's always like someone in Hoboken or Spokane that's like lost their life savings and now like they have to work at a gas station even though they're 85 and like you know, you know, incapacity. You know, it's horrible stuff. But then the commercials in it are literally like the commercials that I saw were to invest in what are clearly schemes. Like pyramid schemes. Like this one lady comes on, she's like, she's like, hey, and like I swear to God, I swear to God, that what they were talking about on the show was uh this guy who said, Listen, uh, I'm gonna guarantee you uh, you know, 12% a year off my real estate investments, and was buying just bunk like real estate that was worthless, and then taking all the new subscriptions and just spending it and paying the dividends out to people.
It's classic made-off style stuff, right? Needed to keep getting new people in because he wasn't making any money because he wasn't actually investing in anything worthwhile, right? Literally during that segment, there was a lady in a commercial who was like guaranteed returns on real estate investments. Can't lose. You know, just blah blah blah.
I was like, holy crap. I mean, like, the world is a weird place. Shame on you, CNBC. Oh, it is CNBC? CNBC.
Shame on you. Shame on you. CNBC with your money reporting. Uh okay, some questions. Finally, people's questions.
Oh my goodness. I just punched up the wrong thing. I punched up st oh, stop playing stereo lab. Hold a sec. My iPhone.
We're gonna get sued because we're not paying our BMI uh ass caps. It's okay if it's through an iPhone speaker through a microphone. I think then all rule all bets are off. Well, somehow, somehow I looked up drop uh dropbox to get my the cooking issues up, but instead it picked up uh stereo lab blips drips uh so let me get the actual uh questions up here. Oh, maybe I should switch back to the iPad.
I'm having some severe bad luck when I'm when I try to iPhone this thing, even with my new Fablet. Fablet. Oh, you're using that word. I know it's a terrible word. Why is it fab?
He is phone tablet. Fab, but it sounds gross. It says gross. Yeah, I don't like it. I only I only use it to be kind of like a jerk because it's it's terrible word.
Okay. Brandon Bird uh writes in it's not Brendan Byrne Arena, it's Brandon Byrd, very close. I would love for him to go to a concert at do they still call it the Brendan Byrne Arena? I don't know. Where did you see Fleetwood Mac?
Stas just saw Fleetwood Mac. You saw Fleetwood Magdalene? That's awesome. She said they played for four freaking hours. Three, three.
They played for twelve hours. They were they were their own opening band. Oh my god. Yeah. And and by the way, Stas, well known, uh, disliker of uh Stevie Nicks before, but now not disliked, just did not like her.
Compared compared to Christine McVeigh. Right. But now you more respect. She's the best. Yeah, that voice is really good.
Oh, don't go that far. Yeah. Still like Christine McCain. But you know, just now she has a presence on stage. Wow.
Ooh, Stevie Nickes? Yeah. Uh, you know who I saw, like uh actually, I guess a little bit later era in uh was uh Ann Ann Wilson from Hartch. Right? Ann Wilson, right?
She kicked from serious behind. It's awesome. She just tore up the stage uh when I was at Tales of the Cocktail. Oh. Yes, tore it up.
Love to see that. Okay. Uh Brandon Bird uh from Chicago writes in Hello, Hammer Dave and Jack, or whoever's working the boot this time. By the way, I fired up a Sears all last week, and uh she uh what was her name, Elizabeth? Yeah.
She was like, oh my god, the boards are breaking, and she just cut the she's cut the cut all the mics out. Oh wow. Because she heard anyway. Uh don't worry, we got Jack. Nice first day on cooking issues for poor Liz.
Yeah. There was lots of shark meat. Oh, all this check all this like fermented shark meat. Great. Yeah.
A few questions for you. I recently used my pressure cooker to render some ground beef fat inside mason jars, and I noticed a curious phenomenon. After cooking for two hours and cooling the jars down to room temperature, they still bubbled and boiled. Bubbled and boiled. Do you like the word boiled?
Or is it sound too much like like spore or Multiple? No, no, no. Boiled this fine. Boiled boiled. Uh somewhat vigorously, even after the jars were cooled to the touch.
What is up with that? Uh okay. So uh answer that first. So assuming you're doing the pressure cooking in uh in the jars, uh a la Modernist Cuisine has a section on rendering out lard in the pressure cooker because the good news about rendering lard in the pressure cooker is that uh okay, okay, look. Let's go through it.
When you're rendering not lard in this case, fat. When you're rendering fat, you need to get the temperature uh above, you want to get the temperature above boiling because uh not all the fat's gonna render out at a hundred. Anyway, so you and you need to uh you need to heat the fat up, not just enough to melt the fat, but to break it loose from its uh the connective tissue where it is and render it out and you get the cracklings and you get the well it depends, with pork, you get the crackless and you get the whatever else, right? You with me, Stas, kind of. The good news about a pressure cooker is that you can't uh you're not gonna boil off all of the water that's in it.
So you're gonna get basically a constant 200 and uh in Fahrenheit, constant like 250 something degrees Fahrenheit uh until you've actually steamed all of the water out. So it's a good way to regulate the temperature of the stuff that you're rendering so that it's not gonna get any burns in it, it's not gonna brown now, it's clear and beautiful and stuff like this, right? Still has a lot of the water in it though, so you have to then separate the water out or like solidify it. So this is like the the premise. Now, another thing that uh people do is they add baking soda to um to the fat when it's rendering, supposedly makes it uh whiter in color.
Baking soda is alkaline, so it's probably shifting, making sure that it's not too acidic. It's probably also reducing the uh you know the amount of uh free fatty acids. I don't really know, but it's like a a known thing to add some baking soda to it. Uh and uh and the monitor's cuisine guys do exactly that. So here is what I think is happening.
Uh baking soda uh starts to uh degrade uh at temperatures, even without so typically when you're using baking soda, right? You take baking soda and you add an as acid to it, uh, and then uh you get a reaction where you're uh you you are forming uh carbon dioxide, right? And that's how the the leavening works. However, baking soda, even not in the presence of an acid, will start to decompose and form carbon dioxide, uh, and it'll do that at temperatures inside of a pressure cooker. So my guess about what's happening, and I asked Chris Young about it too, uh asked him about it.
My guess is that um when you're heating up the stuff in the jar, right? You're decomposing some of the um you're decomposing some of the baking soda that's forming carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide is then going into solution in the water, might also be in oil. I don't know about the solubility of CO2 into oil. I mean, I know N N2O is very soluble in oil, that's why we use it in whipped cream.
I presume CO2 is somewhat soluble in oil, but I really don't know. But uh there's also still water phase in there, remember. So what you're doing is is you're putting a large amount of uh CO2, or not large amount, but an amount of CO2 into um the uh liquid at a relatively uh high pressure, and I'm presuming that um when it cools off as the pressure decreases, the CO2 is bubbling out, or maybe it's still producing CO2. I don't know. It's to me it's gotta be a CO2 effect.
I can't think of anything else reason why after it's cooled to the touch it would continue to bubble unless it's continued production of CO2. That's all I can think about. And then as the pressure reduces, more stuff will bubble out. But on the other hand, as it cools, it becomes more soluble. So who knows?
It's a crapshoot. But this is the only thing I could think of, and Chris seemed like it seemed reasonable. But I don't know. It's an interesting phenomenon. Anyone else who knows, please uh write in and tell us.
Oh, and here's some here's some stuff. Uh this also, by the way, uh, he is a fan of these flavors. Really? Of these seltzer flavors. Like you, I'm a big fan of bubbles.
Hello, seltzer, and quite enjoy mixing carbonated water from my soda stream with fresh citrus juice. Do you like that word? Yeah. Uh I also quite enjoy citrus flavor carbonated beverages from brands like strong. That sound, man.
Yeah, like the can we can we just have that as like our like yeah, I gotta get that on the sound effects board. Yeah. Her flavored seltzer noise. Uh like Lacroix, Lacroix. How do you pronounce?
How do you think that like Americans pronounce this thing? La croix. I guess. The cro the crocs. LaCroix.
LaCroix, I guess. Americans? Yeah, LaCroix. Uh, do you have any insight as to how beverages like that are produced? Is it simply a matter of dosing carbonated water with essential oils or is there something else involved?
Okay. First of all, uh no, no, not essential oils. Essential, when you're using oils, oils have to be suspended in an emulsion. They're typically not clear. When you add them to the classic one of this is citrus beverages like uh sunkis, which aren't clear, they are a little bit cloudy, and it's because they have emulsified oils in them.
Those emulsified oils need to be stabilized. And so for short stabilization periods, you can act if you want to do this, you can do this. You can get essential oils and you can emulsify them with gum arabic uh and very strong into kind of uh uh a water slash uh or alcohol slash uh oil emulsion with gum arabic water. I would do water and then add stabilized with alcohol if you need to put it anyway. Boom.
So you have this like essential oil that's emulsified, it's gonna be cloudy looking, like white, cloudy, like chalky water. That you can then add to soda and you can drink it like that. It's fine. And because the the the emulsion size is very, very small, so you're not gonna get a lot of excess bubbling. It's not like adding like uh lemon juice to it or something like this.
You're not gonna get a huge amount of bubbling out, you're gonna be okay because the particles are too really small to cause a lot of nucleation, presuming you do it right. Right? So you you should be okay there. Uh in the business though, uh the gum arabic isn't stable enough to have it uh suspend for a long, long time. So what they do, what they used to do is they would use brominated vegetable oil.
And uh the bromine makes the oil, remember, oil's lighter than water. So the bromine that they add to the essential oil makes the basic oil droplet uh heavier because uh part of it is the essential oil and part of it is brominated vegetable oil. And that has a weight that's heavier than water. So when you add the oils together into the droplets, they get a relatively neutral buoyancy and they don't want to float out. And by adding brominated vegetable oils, you can get uh a citrus beverage that's gonna be stable through the next ice age, roughly.
But uh you know, that order of magnitude, or you know, till we have a nuclear war, whatever, whatever it is. Nuclear war, ice age, whichever comes first, uh, whatever. Um however, people don't like brominated vegetable oil anymore because uh there might be some health risk, etc. etc. And so people have moved away from it, and now uh like one of the replacements that they're using is uh something called sucrose uh acetoisobuterate or SAIB for not as crazy, which apparently is non-toxic, but I really know relatively little about it because I don't do that, I don't really do that kind of stuff for a living, right?
So I was gonna do that. But the way they make the clear beverages is they use uh um uh extracts, right? So uh the extracts are only stuff that are soluble in uh water and and alcohol, usually. Some of them will cloud when they're dissolved, depending on how they do it, but usually they'll compound those flavors such that they uh don't cloud up when they're diluted and they work. So the flavors aren't gonna be the same.
That's why these things don't really taste like uh real like you're losing whole parts of the of the citrus when they're doing that because they're adding only compounds that are uh that you know are gonna be soluble in water and stay clear. And there's specific people that make that. So you you you're gonna buy uh you're just gonna buy the extract that that's right for that. And by the way, just because the flavor is natural, I don't people do people know this in general. Just because the flavor is natural, flavor man, uh doesn't mean that it's the flavor that you are buying.
Yeah, we talked about this. Yeah. So usually if you say something has natural lemon flavor, right? And you don't want to say uh on it, although lemon's uh whatever, but you don't want to say on it uh natural lemon flavor with other added weirdness, right? What you do is you say the lemon flavor, it has to have some component from a lemon in it, right?
And then wamph. Wamp. Which W O N F with other natural flavors. And all it means is is they make purified chemical uh flavors from natural sources and then dope it back in. So there's really no I mean, in my estimation, no advantage really.
That's why like natural flavor versus artificial flavor, uh, like unless someone literally is doping something with a poisonous flavor, really means nothing to me. You know what I mean? It's like I I don't really care. Like I care, does it taste the way I want it to taste? You know what I mean?
That's all I'm saying. Yeah, he was saying nothing that's labeled cherry would ever have cherry in it. It's all benzaldehyde. Yeah, but it just depends on where they get it. If they get it from a natural source, then it's a natural flavor.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then if there's like one molecule from a cherry somewhere in there, then you're good. You know, it's like it's it's it's an absurd thing. It's an absurdity.
That like, you know, we focus on it's because um as soon as you have something with uh a label, and then there's a rule for that label, then companies will figure out how to work around that label to make the product uh in a way that's good for the company to make that product that fits the letter of the of the law for the label. That's it, you know? Yeah, whatever. But anyway, I have no problem with with flavors as long as they taste good. Do you like apple jacks, Doz?
The cereal? Yeah, I love that. Right? But they they but what do they not taste like? Apples.
Yeah, they taste that's why I like it though. Yeah, well, there was uh we've talked about this on the air before, I think, but there was a commercial a number of years ago where these uh the kids were like, these don't taste like apples, and then Stas was on saying, but I still love them, right? Because in what in 87? Something like that. I don't know.
But like but the thing you were on the commercial? No, I don't know. Might as well have been. That's awesome. Uh might as well have been stuzz.
But like the the the thing is, the point is of all this, is that uh people like apple jacks because they taste like apple jacks, not because they taste like apples. And like whether the flavor is real or not, you know, artificial or natural, uh, you know, you you know, is not an if what you care about is not having stuff that's been dorked and mucked with, then real or natural is not the label you should be looking for, right? Whatever. Uh but's clearly doesn't care about that because she just wants her apple jacks to taste like apple jacks. Right?
Anyways. Fruity rings. Stas, uh, for a minute, I've if I can for a minute. The flavors of gummy bears that you like versus the flavors you don't like are which ones? I like the white ones.
And that's it? I I can deal with the red and the green, but the rest can go. Which are the ones you specifically don't like? Yellow and orange. Well, most people don't like yellow and orange of anything.
Jack, what are your thoughts on this? Is that true? She she's a believer that most people are not a fan of the yellow and the why? The yellow you get too much of a lemon pledge flavor? I mean, it depends.
As a kid, when you got a bunch of yellow and oranges of anything, and they it was always the majority. Oh, yeah. I used to buy the red is what everyone knows. Red ones, yeah. Yeah.
I used to buy the you know how Tic Tacs used to come in dual flavor packs, like they would mix, maybe they still do. You know what I'm talking about? Two colors in one? I used to love the yellow orange pack. Of course.
Oh, the orange Tic Tacs are good. Yeah, like those. Oh no. What about the Tangerine Lifesavers? No, I don't like orange flavored uh candies.
Really? Yeah. Do you like orange uh Sherbert or Sorbet? Yeah, I can yeah, but I wouldn't say. Do you like cream stickles?
Yeah, cream stickles good. Alright, because otherwise, we would have had a fist fight right here. I would have lost. But we would have had no, you know, you have the simian crease. I have the simian crease, but like I don't have like a high enough level of anger right now.
That's true. You know, it's like, yeah, so I have a I have a simian crease. Tell them what it means. What it means is is that you know how what are those two lines? Anyone a palm reader here?
No, but if you have multiple lines in your palm, everyone has multiple lines in their palm. Yeah, and you usually have one that's like coming around your thumb and curving down, and then you have one that curves up coming over from your pinky, right? Yeah. I don't. I got one line that goes straight across.
That means it's a simian crease. So either I'm a monkey, hence the same. Then certain certain, you know, people with genetic dispositions towards mental retardation also have it. But Wee Pop, you know, who I now feel for deeply because he had his Kickstarter uh delays with uh Nomiku from Thailand. Uh came he's like, Oh, in Thailand, that means that you're going to murder someone by accident.
I was like, what the hell? Who the hell has like this specific A like uh palm reading thing? Well, I think like after autopsy stuff, probably they were like, oh, that man has it, and that man has it, and then they all murdered somebody by accident. Yeah, but it was by accident. It was specifically by accident.
It was specifically they did it, but they were doing it by accident. Which seems like I got in a fist fight. Oh, well, he didn't say fist fight, you're just adding this now. You're just gonna be able to do that. No, no, I'm saying that's probably what happened.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. All right, last question from Brandon Bird. Also, a couple weeks back, you answered a question about storing flowers and other powdered starch products in a freezer uh uh from someone who had an allergen concern.
We have another question. That was who had the allergy because it was it, Sam? Anyway, I'll look it up. Uh you mentioned you regularly store high-end flowers in the freezer that you haven't noticed any appreciable decline in quality. I'm wondering why that's so, considering that you advise against storing baked starch products like bread in the freezer because of the negative effects caused by starch retrogradeation.
Best uh Brandon Bird. First of all, freezing bread is okay. Freezing it. The problem is uh refrigeration storage is in bread. So, and the general rule of thumb in the uh in the is literature, the industrial literature, I don't want to say scientific, it's more industrial literature, on bread baking and bread storage, is that uh a single freeze thaw cycle that you go through, uh, and by the way, you want to freeze it quickly and you want to thaw it quickly, but uh that single freeze uh uh thaw cycle is worth about a day's worth of storage in terms of staling at room temperature, which is why if you're gonna but once it's frozen, you don't lose anything.
So if you're going to freeze bread, right, and you're freezing it today, right? Then it's like when you thaw it to eat it right away, it's like you're eating it tomorrow night, right? But if you wait till tomorrow night to freeze it, it's like you you're you're losing another day after that. Does that make sense to us? So it's the if freezing itself isn't the problem, it's as it goes in and out of freezing.
The the real problem is is refrigeration temperatures. Okay. The other thing is that the flowers don't fit those rules at all because starch retrogradation only applies to starches that have been cooked, right? And and you know, hydrated with water, and then over time, those um the starches like uh recrystallize, right? And so then the water becomes a mound that goes stale.
So starch retrogradation is only a problem in starches that have been uh cooked already, and where you don't want to have them uh recrystallize. Yeah? Make sense? Okay. Uh oh, and he also adds uh P.S.
going through your back episodes. I noticed that you solicited names for the product that became the Searsol. Being late to the game, I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring in hopes that you come out with a larger format tabletop broiler in the future. My suggestion, the Hellbender. Hellbenders are monstrous amphibians, the largest salamanders native to North America.
They look scary and have a sweet name. I know you like salamander puns. Piper really used to like salamander puns. And Hellbender sounds much better than Sally Hander, sorry, pipes, or uh Sally Mattock, no offense. He says no offense to Piper.
Nummy, don't worry. Uh looking for Piper, whatever. I don't know. I don't if I see him, I'll ask him. Uh looking forward to getting my all-searing eyes sometime soon.
Cheers, Brandon Bird. Okay. Uh Michael writes in. Hello, Dave and Nastasha, and all mother masters of sound. Ooh, I like how you like that, Jack.
Master of sound. Is that what you said? Yeah. No, and all masters of sound. Okay.
I like Master of Sound, though. I like Mother Master of Sound. That's my next band. Mother Masters of Sound. I like that.
Sweet. Someone make that band. Like just do some garage, what's it called called? Garage Band on your new iPhones. Oh, wait, do you want to tell them about the new baby Jesus here?
No, I don't want to talk about that. We don't have a name for him yet. Okay. There well, although Daniel Gritzer, who is here on Tuesday, came up with a sweet name. What was it?
Um Santa's Little Hipster. Oh, yeah. Santa's little hipster. You know who we're talking about, Jack? No.
He's new. Oh, I know who you're talking about. The new indie Jesus. Yeah, yeah. But he's not, he's not Jesus related, but he is he is Christmas related.
He's Santa's little hipster. Is awesome. And I don't want anyone, he's not a dwarf. Don't come back and say that we're he just looks like an elf with like hipster elf. There's a reason for this nickname, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And it has nothing to do with his height, so don't write in and say that we're bad people. Okay. Uh how much salt do you add to food when cooking, not brinding? Is it possible to calculate?
Is it based at all on water content in food? Also, uh, does perception of salt really change when it is added at different stages of cooking? Also, can one calculate how much of a spice or herb to add when cooking? And ratios of one spice to another overall, are there universal constants? No.
Uh I don't think so. I mean, I always there's certain recipes that you know what's going to happen, and so you add definite percentages. So breads. Uh, you typically add uh percentage, and every baker knows what percentage they are gonna add of salt, and you typically then you're salting on flour basis, not on flour and water basis, because after it's all said and done when you bake, you really care about the the quantity of salt in the final product, not in the uh not in the in the dough, and usually your hydrations level out when you bake, right? I mean, let's be honest.
Uh unless it's like something really really dry. Um and so typically for a given recipe uh style, like a cookie or a bread, you'll use a particular percentage. And I used to use, you know, McGee told me about this uh writer, bread writer in San Francisco who's uh apparently well known, used to work, I think at Acme, and he uh I forget his name, and uh, you know, he wrote that in the old days we would use like a percent uh a percent to a percent and a half of salt, which is what I typically would have used in bread back in the day, bread and pizza dough, things like this. He says modern people are pushing up like over two uh percent on salt, which it seems high, but you know, uh anyway. But the point is that salt levels I guess have been rising up in uh a lot of these artisan breads over the past uh couple of decades.
But yeah, so that has a definite percentage. Uh and I think you can do the same thing with other things made a noise, didn't mean to. Uh with other things that are kind of uh uniform. So you know when rice comes in, like that doesn't have salt in it, and so you could calculate. I haven't done it, but you could calculate a percentage that you're gonna add uh of salt to a rice before you cook it.
What I would do if oh I did, I would take the rice that you make, I would take a batch, uh, make a batch, weigh it, and then you know exactly what the weight is of a of uh particular rice after you cook it, and then do a percentage basis on that, like a percent or so, probably percent, percent two, whatever. Uh but when you're dealing with things, uh other things, especially things that have some their own inherent salt in them, you never know how much salt you're gonna need to add because you don't know what the flavor of the original thing was, and certain things require more salt than others based on uh the levels of other flavors that are present in them. You know, does that make sense to us? And as to whether you should add it before or after, I think a lot makes a difference. If you add salt to bread afterwards, then you're a the then you're a nasty Tuscan person, and we all know Tuscan bread is terrible.
Uh it just tastes awful because they don't put salt in. So you have to clearly uh with bread add it, uh add it um uh uh before, before you make it, when you're making the dough. Uh it can also make a difference, for instance, in bread when you add it, um, because it also changes uh how fast the yeast uh works. When you're soaking beans uh in salted water, the salt can change the rate of the absorption of the water into the beans. So, like in certain cases it makes a functional difference when you add the salt.
But in other cases, I think it almost always makes sense to add salt as you're cooking. Oh, another one, meat. If you add salt to meat before you cook it, if you add it a long time before you cook it, then it can change the texture of the meat, right? So that's why if I'm doing a long cook of something like a steak and I want it to taste like a fresh, like a like a broiled steak, I won't add the salt if I'm gonna cook it for a long time because I don't want the texture of the meat to taste more like a cured texture of meat, which it will if the salt's there for a long time. Well, especially when it's cooking for a long time.
Okay. So there you have it uh uh on that. But it other than that, or for instance, I'm sorry, if you're gonna make a stock, you don't add the salt now because you don't know what form you're gonna use the stock and you're gonna reduce it, and then your salt levels are all wrong. However, when you're using ingredients and you know that the ingredients that you're preparing it into its final state. Like for instance, I'm making a sauce, and this sauce is gonna go on something else, right?
I want the sauce to taste uh the right level of salt, so I'll salt the sauce while I make it. I also want the meat that I'm putting the sauce on to have the right level of salt, so I'll have the meat taste good if you were to taste it without the sauce. I think in general, if you follow the rule, have everything taste good on its own in terms of its salt level. When you combine them, they'll still taste good. I'm not such a fan of saying I'm gonna make one bland piece of crap and then I'm gonna put something really salty on top of it because then the two things are unbalanced on their own.
And what if someone takes a bite of one and not the other? Or what if you have a piece of potato that you didn't salt the water because for some reason you don't like to salt water? I don't know what's wrong with you. I don't know why you didn't salt your potato water, but if you did that, right, and some guy got a big chunk of potato with a little bit of salt on the outside, well, that potato's gonna be bland because the interior of that potato is not gonna have any freaking flavor, right? Whereas a person has a small piece of potato, they're not gonna have too much salt because they have relatively more sauce on it.
So in that situation, I would say add the salt all at once. You know what I mean? Okay. Uh would that make any uh any sense? Yeah.
All right. All right, okay. What do you think, Jack? Is that that that okay? Yeah, I think you got it.
Yeah. Uh oh, and same thing with spices. First of all, spices are even worse, like spices and herbs, because the relative uh pungency or power of the given spice or herb is wildly dependent on how old it is, where it was sourced, uh, the variety it is, etc. etc. So there's really no rules.
That's why when people ask for recipes and you give them a recipe and like, you know, it's got like I don't know, time in it. Well, I don't know how much time you need to add. Why don't you just chop up the time and then when it tastes right, you're done. You know what I mean? But you're not allowed to write a recipe that says add the amount that makes it taste good.
You know what I'm saying? People hate when you write recipes like that. But I'm I'm like I'm famous for uh with with lanterns. I was well known for always just saying, make it taste right, sucker, right? Anyways.
Uh okay. I just fast blasted you something. We had a question from Andrea in Germany that has gone unanswered for a while. Just put it in. You sure we didn't answer that one?
Because I have that one here, right here. Like it's the next one on the thing. But we sure we didn't we didn't get to that one? Yeah, he's sent me a few emails here this week. So Andrea with eggs.
Hi there. I have a question for Dave on uh cooking issues. Uh I'm a judge uh I'm from Germany and listen to your uh show regularly. I have a question regarding baking without eggs. I am not a vegan, but don't tolerate eggs, and all my attempts at baking cakes have been awful.
Uh bunt. I like that word, bunt. Uh bunt and sponge cakes turned out extremely moist and heavy, not light and fluffy at all. This might be okay in a fudgy brownie, uh in fudgy brownie like cakes, but I am looking for a sponge uh chiffon cake. I like you don't like sponge, right?
The word. No. No. Uh sponge chiffon cake that is usually just made with eggs, flour, sugar, and baking powder. Uh and that can be used for layering cakes with whipped cream, as for stress uh Swiss rolls, kind of like an angel food cake, but with the yolks also being used.
I've tried various egg replacers, but they don't work well either. Do you have any idea and a good recipe for that? Thanks for your help. Andrea, okay. Well, uh eggs are uh a miracle, right?
And so like they have various different uh functions, and uh in different cakes they they do various things. Um obviously they add uh structure in the form of uh protein. Let me see whether I actually uh anything. They add structure in the form of protein, uh or uh in angel food cakes, they add um in ancient food cakes, they add uh actual foam, right? So you whip them into a foam and and and you beat it in.
So there's usually not a single egg, and also there are emulsifiers, right? Because when you're adding egg yolks or something, you and fat. You add fat and emulsifiers, which can also, you know, uh improve the texture of cakes. So I don't think you're gonna find any one single egg replacer that's going to replace all of the um, you know, all of the different functions that eggs can perform even within a cake. That said, there are people working on this problem right now.
Uh notably Bill Gates is a big uh investor in uh a company that's doing there's two, I think, main fake egg companies in, they're both in California, of course. And uh one of them is uh already come out with a non-egonnaise, a mayonnaise, right? What's that? You don't do Jack, do you know what this is called? Maybe you could do a quick search for me.
Uh and there's another um company that's working on eggs that can literally uh be scrambled and eaten as though they were an egg. So they're looking to get the color right, the texture, and I guess also somewhat the flavor. Wait, so it's a non-egg product that can be scrambled? That's right. Okay.
And I've seen it. And here's the thing, right? Uh uh and I talked to Harold McGee about this, and I think Nathan Mirvold was actually uh was pimped out for one of the uh one of the products where like they cooked it at his place and served it to someone else, and that's someone else who's by no means an egg expert, was like, tastes like an egg to me. Here's the thing like when you're when you're like this is like a classic vegetarian argument against meat, is that you can just make a meat replacer, and that most people can't tell the difference. Well, most people can't tell the difference between a piece of meat that's been uh cooked to death and uh you know a meat replacer that's been cooked to death because once it turns into a piece of shoe leather, who the hell cares whether it came from an animal or from a vegetable?
You know what I'm saying? There is no one on God's green earth that can take and make something yet that I'm like, that tastes exactly like a medium rare rib steak. You know what I mean? That has the same freaking texture as a medium rare ribsteak. You ever had that happen to you, Jack?
No, of course not. No, no. They're like But like if you want to, you know, serve like good mushrooms or something. I don't know. They're delicious.
They're delicious. But like the meat replacing people are like, when I make an overly spiced chili that would have had overcooked, particalized crappy hamburger meat in it, you can barely tell that you don't have the particalized crappy hamburger meat. Well, that's not really a fair judge of whether or not you're making a good meat replacer. Brooks' hamburgers are pretty good. They're not hamburgers, they're good.
They're a good patty product. They're a good patty product. I would eat it on a bun, and in fact, have many times. By the way, how's this for a word? It's the veg.
The veg? The 100% plant-based egg yolk replacement. Oh, veg with two E's. Yeah. Two G's, rather.
Veg. Yeah. I don't know. I think with, you know, when you got Gates money behind you, you can't do better than Veg. I don't know if that's the one that you can.
Or maybe it's veg. Veg. Veg. No, but it's like supposed to be like the incredible edible veg. Veg?
Anyway. But the point is, is that uh I'm sure that you can make something that approximates a really poorly cooked, uh, overcooked scrambled egg, especially if you're going to dump a bunch of Tabasco sauce onto it and eat it with hash browns. Then yeah, you probably could. But uh replacing an actual egg, whatever. What am I talking about?
It's talking about cakes. So typically when you're doing a cake, uh, it depends on what you want to replace. You need to leaven somewhat, so you're gonna need some way to uh aerate it. You can typically, you could do that with uh commercial leaveners, but in order to get that um spongy chiffani like thing, uh you might want to um uh you're gonna need to add some sort of uh protein to it. Uh not protein, sorry.
Uh some although you could add some protein to it actually as well. That'll mimic some of the stuff. But you're gonna want to add uh something that stabilizes the bubbles in it while it's forming because you're not gonna have the uh egg structure to hold it together while it's baking. So what typically what you'll do in an egg replacer is you'll add some form of thickener uh like some hydrocolide thickener and uh xanthan gum, and xanthan gum will uh hold uh the structure while you are uh while you're baking. But there are some alternatives that uh uh that you could try.
I'll give you some. So Johnny Azini and I, years ago, and I think he actually published this recipe, so you can go uh look for it somewhere. I think he published it. We're working uh we wanted to do an angel food cake style thing that didn't have any egg whites in it. And the reason is we didn't want to have that kind of uh protein uh feeling from the egg whites that you get from uh egg whites in an angel food cake.
So uh we used uh ISIA or EC whippers, uh you know whipped cream whippers to produce the um the foam texture, and we used uh methylcellulose. So methylcellulose, but not actually methyl cellulose, methylcel, which is a Dow brand of sometimes methylcellulose, sometimes hydroxypropo methyl cellulose, blah blah blah. But they have the interesting property that they gel when you heat them, right? So we added, I believe it was methyl gel uh the SG uh I think it was S G A 7 C. It's been a long time, but I think he published it.
I can't remember exactly, it's been a long time. But anyway, so you add this methyl cell to your battery put the m batter in in an EC whipper, you charge it with a bunch of N2O, you foam it into the pan, and you throw it in the oven. The bubbles are formed already from the from the foaming in the in the EC whip, and then uh as it heats, it sets very quickly in um into a gel. The gel holds the shape of the angel food of the angel food cake like thing while it bakes, and then when it cools off, the starch holds it together, so you don't need the egg anymore. So that was one way to do it.
Another way you could probably do it is by making a uh a fluid gel, which I'm gonna talk about a little bit later for a different question that comes in. You can make a fluid gel with um uh you wouldn't want to use agar, because agar will break in the oven at those temperatures, but you use low acyl gel and which is a hydrocolloid. You can make a light uh, you know, uh pretty you can make a pretty thick fluid gel, actually, and use that for the water base of the cake. You could even do it milk-based if you wanted. Uh use that as the water base of the cake, and that will provide some structure such that after it aerates, the bubbles won't pop.
But you might need to pre-aerate, or you could probably maybe get away with just the aeration from creaming. I don't know. Depends on what kind of cake you're gonna make. If you're gonna make one with fat or if you're gonna make one that needs to be aerated by uh by whipped egg whites. If you're gonna do something that needs something like whipped egg whites, you could use uh VersaWhip to whip together um uh a liquid base and then set that with Xanthan or some form of fluid gel so that it doesn't break.
There's a bunch of different things you could uh go through, or you could just try a commercial egg replacer. Does this make any sense? Uh-huh. Anyway. Uh anyway, if that's if you need more information, uh, you know, give me give me a holler.
I don't have any recipes off the top of my head, but again, look, Johnny Azini might have published that recipe we did. It was years and years ago, like six years ago or something like that. Um Chris Shedon writes in on brine penetration. Howdy, Dave, the hammer. Uh oh, you could Joe in the tools.
Well, Joe, you know, Jack. Joe did come back that one week though. Yeah, Joe's around sometimes. Yeah. He's pretty famous.
Yeah, my man Joe. Yeah. Uh we've been brining our chickens, uh, if non-kosher, since the oldie Cooks Illustrated article popularized it. We also brine fish to present uh to prevent protein bleed out. Typically for chicken or pork, we do a five percent solution for twelve hours or so.
Works fine, no problems there, and we like the results. We believe we understand the process, osmotic pressure, higher or lower salt concentrations, etc. But we've seen a number of brines that include non-water soluble flavorings. Thomas Keller's chicken brine, for example, has honey. Okay, that's water soluble.
But uh also bay leaves, garlic, peppercorn, rosemary, lemon, onion, times, parsley, etc. Since these herbs and spices are not water soluble, uh, can they actually penetrate the protein and flavor the meat? Even if they can, can they penetrate more than the surface layer of the fresh flesh fresh, fresh flesh. Even uh if so, which earth spices would imbue more flavor more successfully, and what's the mechanism? Thanks for all the uh great info on cooking issues.
Chris Shelton, uh Shenton, rather. Uh okay, here's the here's the thing. Uh well, eat like a lot of that stuff is water soluble, but the most larger molecules, uh, salt is a relatively small molecule. And also the interesting thing about salt is that salt as well as acids uh radically affect uh kind of how proteins in the muscles act. And so they can have a very big uh effect.
And uh then the question is whether or not like they penetrate the surface or whether they don't. Most spices are really on the surface. Salt, uh, there's some arguments on how much penetration you get uh on salt, but I'm gonna refer all of you, rather than having a discussion of it myself, I'm gonna refer to you to what a couple of years ago was not uh that widely read a blog as far as I can tell, but everyone should go take a look at it. It's uh genuine ideas.com. It's a guy, I think he's uh he's some sort of scientist, his last name is Blonder.
Genuine ideas.com has done the best work on brining uh ever because he did a bunch, cooked a bunch of stuff, and here's what's cool. He cooked a bunch of stuff, and then um after he cooked it and sliced it, soaked it in salt revealing dyes that could actually show the penetration of salt of an actual cooking, not marking uh penetration based on dye penetr dye penetration, but actual on s salt penetration on the cut surfaces of meat. So I just rather than going into it, I recommend you all read that, and then if we want to have some discussion about his section on brining, uh, you know, then we can, but it's it's excellent. So go take a look at that. Um Matt Maroon writes in on foam.
Hey guys, I made an awesome hot toddy using mulled apple cider, angostura uh bitters, dark rum, uh angostura, yeah, dark rum, uh fat wash with brown butter and maple syrup. I topped it with uh La Bernardan's carib uh caramel foam. By the way, when you say La Bernadette, it means Michael Lasconis is formerly a La Bernadette, uh good you know, great, great well-known pastry chef. Uh caramel foam, uh, and then uh give me a link to the recipe. And the recipe is uh quarter cup sugar, tablespoon water, two large egg yolks, uh three quarters cup heavy cream, uh three tablespoons uh plus uh teaspoon of whole milk and a half sheet, uh half half of a two-gram sheet of of gelatin.
So basically you're making a gelatin stabilized whipped cream in the ISI. It was done in ISI, foamed out, bop. Okay. Uh okay, that's how Lasconus did it. One person who drank it noted that if you drink too slowly, the foam melts and leaves an unappealing mess floating on the cider.
You know what? It's like, you know, your friends can't just accept the freaking drink you gave them. They have to like complain about the unappealing mess on the service. It's typical, right? Yeah, typical.
You know what? It's like it's like I was like, uh uh okay, so like when the iPhone was coming out, right? Uh the like they were having problems with the store because I happened to be up. I was working, actually, interestingly, on Searzol stuff, I was working on stuff when the when they went on sale, 3 a.m. my time, right?
So I go on and the Apple store is not working. I'm like, these guys didn't get their store up on time. I was like, oh, yeah, people make mistakes. You know? Your friends should get people make mistakes.
You know? I'm so much more forgiving now. Uh, but like uh after I've had to do after I've had to go through it, I'm much more forgiving of when things go wrong, you know. Uh so you're you know, your friend needs to give you a b a big bad break on that. But anyway, yes, we're gonna solve your problem anyway.
Uh the foam melts and leaves an unappealing uh mess floating on the cider. Is there anything I could do to slow that down, like methyl cellulose or something? The foam uh already has gel in it. Three of the four of us drank it too quickly to be an issue, but I thought there might be uh nice to slow down the melting a little uh if it were possible. So three of the four of you were reasonable.
You just drank that sucker, right? Uh I'm gonna go back to what I said before. You're gonna want to use some form of a fluid gel. So reinforced creams. So forget the gelatin.
Throw the throw the gel, bah, gone, right? Get rid of it. Uh you're also about to go vegetarian. Uh well, yes, but not vegan, because you have egg yolks in it if you want. Whatever you want.
Uh, what you're gonna do is uh you're going to take um the water uh and the milk. Uh and that might be enough, actually. Now you might need to take a portion of the cream as well, and you're going to set it in a 1% uh as a 1% agar gel. You're then gonna blend that gel. Now you have to have enough of it.
You have to make like 300 grams or more of this uh of this agar gel. Uh and then you gotta you could do like you could do uh actually, you know what? 1%'s kind of high. You could do yeah, you can do 1%, and then just add enough cream back to it to get the texture way you want. So you're gonna uh make an agar gel with this stuff, then blend the hell out of it.
Then uh you're gonna mix it with the cream and the egg yolks, you're gonna shake it, right? And then remember, this is a fluid gel, okay? So you're gonna need and by the way, when you blend it, if it looks like little shards, then it's not blended enough. It has to look creamy. Uh so then you put it in the whipped cream container, you flick the whipped cream, put your finger over the tip.
First time doesn't matter, second, third time it does. Flick down, right? To make sure that all the product is slammed against the head of it, then dispense. And the agar fluid gel will prevent meltdown. I do this all the I do this all the time.
Two minutes, but I'm not done with all the ketchup questions. I have a lot of questions this week for uh yeah, so you can still writes in on ISI and soda streams. Hello, everyone at Cooking Issues. This is Mildred from Albany, New York, with a completely different question that I'm gonna try the first batch of mushroom ketchup that we talked about before this weekend. I want to pick up an uh EC whipper so I can try rapid infusions, but my housemates are more interested in picking up a soda stream who just posted a big loss.
Their stock went way through the floor. Hopefully they can pick themselves back up. Uh as a trial. I know that CO2 isn't strong enough to do decent infusions, but uh, but are we doomed to multiple devices? Can one use a CO2 cartridge is one of the types of EC whippers for soda, and then an NO2 uh N2O cartridge for infusion or foam?
If so, are there any specific accessories I can get to make it work? And what additional care and maintenance steps do I take to make sure I don't mess up with the whipper? Thanks in advance, and keep it tasty, Mildred. Unfortunately, you will need multiple things. It's completely un you you will spend more uh if you make uh any reasonable amount of seltzer, you will spend more uh trying to do seltzer in the uh in the whipper than you will just doing it in the soda screen.
The soda stream is much more convenient for making uh things like seltzer and then keep the uh whipper for whipped cream and infusions and stuff like that. You won't regret having them. They're they're they're different, but you can't really get one to do the thing for the for the for the other. I thought you said I had two more minutes. We're done.
You can do more ketchup on Tuesday's show, though. Alright, listen, I have to talk about I did all this research on Christoph and his and cooking bass. Still in your head. And I did all, you know, talk about liquid smoke. What else am I gonna talk about?
We're gonna talk about uh the way we cook brats with the food truck. We're finally gonna get to the autolife step with Calvel and bread, custards, oh my god, fennel, oh my god. All this stuff. All right, so we'll get to it next week, the almost catch up show, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org.
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