Today's program is brought to you by White Oak Pastures, a five-generation Georgia-based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner. For more information, visit whiteoakpastures.com. I'm Damon Bolte, host of the Speakeasy. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for thousands more.
Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network from Roberta's Pizzeria. We're in Bushwick! Brooklyn! Hello.
Hey. Joined as usual with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. We got Jack and we got we've got Wyatt. I'm gonna speak for both of us. We're great.
You're like, I'm not gonna let uh why talk because what if he's non-doable? Well, then what? Then what? How about you, Stas? I'm okay.
Yeah? You got good stuff going on? No. Stas is like the best I can hope for is to not have crap going on. Good stuff is like, you know, way too far.
So apparently tomorrow, V Vice, the Vice, the the network slash never heard of it. Never, never, never heard of that. You've heard of Vice, the actual, you know, like sin, right? Yeah, that I've heard of. And you've heard of the of the uh Black Crow song Virtue and Vice, right?
That I've heard of too. They have this they have this network that's based on that, on that principle. And uh they have a show called The Munchies, and apparently they're gonna air the Foie Gras thing that uh I worked on with them a number of months ago based on the California ban on Foie Gras, but that's not what I want to talk about. Uh what I want to talk about was I had to go do like some last-minute voiceovers last week at their offices in Brooklyn. They're uh they're over in Williamsburg, uh, Jack, by the way.
Green point, I think, no? Uh no, I mean I think it's still Williamsburg. It's like uh the border. Williams Point. Anyway.
That's good. Yeah, I biked over there, and for the first time in like five years, my pant leg came untucked from my sock without me knowing, and it just ripped the bottom half of my pants off. It was awesome. I looked like uh I don't know, I looked like that guy I remember from the Grateful Dead concert. You probably looked like somebody who works at Vice.
Well, there you go. Uh they actually seem like very nice folks. But I was there in the in the voiceover booth, and I they had you know uh Snoop Dogg's reincarnation where he's now you Snoop Lion and he's like smokes a lot of pot in in uh in Jamaica. Anyways, so they had a big poster for that. I was like, oh, you guys did that?
Like, yeah, Snoop Dogg did voiceovers in this room. I was like, what? I was doing some voiceovers in this and I told them I was like, the only reason that uh we started Booker and Dax the Bar was in hopes of getting Snoop Dogg to come in and have some gin and juice, and we're unsuccessful, so maybe they're gonna maybe they're gonna work on that. Yeah. You think?
That'd be awesome. That's awesome. Right? That's good. Also, I have to shout out.
I'm just being uh a jerk, but Helen Holliman runs Munchie. She's awesome. She used to have a show here called You Look Hungry. So did you in fact look hungry at that time? Um I didn't.
Maybe she did. No, I guess I did. Yeah. I looked a little hungrier back then. Like now it's just who cares anymore.
Right. No longer hungry. Uh got another uh interesting story. By the way, should you have questions, cooking uh related or otherwise, why don't you write the uh call them in too uh 718-497-2128. That's 718, 497-2128.
718, what's the new Brooklyn uh exchange, by the way? Does anyone know? No, it's not just 718 anymore, right? I think there's a 646. No, that's but that's everywhere.
That's oh, there's a new Brooklyn? I don't know, I'm asking because I have no idea. Like back in the day, right? You had your Manhattan, which was your 212. Which is I have a 212 cell phone somehow.
We know. We know. Fancy man. And then you had 718 was everybody else. You know what I mean?
And then, you know, 917 came, we had our cell phones, but now it's just it's all over the freaking map. Even Jack, a Brooklyn resident, can get a 212 on his cell phone. The hell's that all about? What a joke. Yeah, pff, yeah.
Numbers don't mean anything anymore, you know? Used to mean like, you know, you could tell something about someone by that by their telephone number. Not anymore. Now it's wasted. So this morning, by the way, you you were familiar with wasabi oil, Stas?
No. Jack, wasabi oil? It's like real wasabi. Well, it's not re no, that's the thing. It's like real wasabi in the way that truffle oil is real truffles.
It's not, you know. So what it what it typically is is um some form of neutral oil carrier with uh mustard oil in it, the spicy stuff, not the unspicy stuff, and then a couple of other flavorings that are added to make it approximate wasabi, right? And even though it's not real, I love it. I think it's good stuff. But but it's were you there that time I had that like half hour or hour long argument with Dave Chang about Wasabi mashed potatoes?
No. Yeah, whatever. I don't want to get into it. But the uh he hates them. He thinks that you cannot make a good mashed potato with any flavoring of wasabi in it.
And I disagree. I think that a potato, I'm not saying that it's not like used or spent, or that like, you know, I don't know, maybe Applebee's had it on their menu at some time or whatever, or I'm not saying it's not like ridiculously cross-cultural in some sort of way, but there's nothing wrong. Like if you were to have if someone, if you were having like mashed potatoes, and somebody dropped a little wasabi in from the sushi that they were eating, and you tasted it, and they were really creamy mashed potatoes, you wouldn't be like, this sucks. Right. You know what I mean?
Right. But I couldn't get that, couldn't get the three. You know another thing that's good? Miso cream miso soup, also good. Is it traditional?
No. Does it taste good? Yeah. Yeah, it tastes good. Anyway, well, I'm not gonna get into it.
I happen to like wasabi oil for various applications. So I have some in my house. Now, wasabi oil is earth-shatteringly um pungent in the way horseradish is, right? To your nose and your eyes, right? So Dax wakes up this morning and he goes to the the pantry, and kids, right?
He's 10, he just turned 10. Totally, they don't care where their body is. They knock stuff over, they're used to it. They're like, it's an accident. I'm like, so it's I mean, it is an accident, and the fact that you didn't intend to do it, but on the other hand, it's not an accident and that you didn't arrange your life such that you wouldn't happen.
You know what I mean? Like, that's that's but what I try to tell him all the time. You know, it's like, so anyways, so he reaches in, grabs something, pulls out, knocks over the freaking bottle of wasabi oil. It does like a triple somersault, opens and pours wasabi oil all over our uh our roomba, our robotic vacuum system, uh, all over the floor, all over Dax's hands. I'm like, oh my god.
Jen Lake, so she hears me saying, oh my god, because it's like the worst thing that could ever happen. And then all of a sudden, Dax, I think he touched his face with his hands, and he starts calling, my eyes! My eyes! And he's running around, we're like flushing him, and I literally, in the pantry, which is closed, couldn't stay in there for longer than five seconds at a time while we were cleaning up all this wasabi oil. He's like, Daddy, you should not have that stuff in the house.
And I'm like, Nah, you should not spill that stuff, Dax. Kind of true. What do you mean? Well, it's cooking. Where they can't up high.
Where they can't. Yeah, I guess, but you know, he climbs on top of chairs and whatever. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, nightmare.
You gotta call her? I do. Alright, call her. Call her you're on the air. Hi, can you hear me?
Yeah, sure. So I have a question about immersion circulators and making stock less broth. I I got a uh one of the uh the fans airstick for for Christmas and I've been fooling around with it. And I was wondering if there's any any reason that you would want to cook in water to make a perfectly cooked meat and make the broth that extracts the liquid. I don't know if you know if if this is you know make a less flavored broth than you would if you just cook it at higher temperatures.
But I sort of like the idea of it of having the meat usable and having the broth flavored, and I guess Indiana would like to see if there's any way to make a per up like a bolito meat soap perfectly cooked with all the meats together, but that's sort of the long term game. Right. I kind of understand what you mean. Here here here are the issues, right? So when you're doing uh a low temp work with uh a stock, you're never gonna get the kind of uh gelatin extraction that you would get um because the temperatures aren't so it's gonna take you know f forever and and whatnot.
But you are on to something, um and I I use this kind of technique uh a lot or used to, uh, for a number of reasons. Okay, so what are they? Typically, when you're when you're cooking a uh a stock, you need a ra relatively large quantity of whatever you're gonna flavor the stock with to make um and you you need a relatively large quantity of water, right? And so this can be anth antithetical to the meat tasting good and to how you're going to make your stock, or you just simply might not have enough of your product around. So the classic one that we always did back at the FCI was uh squab.
You know, you want to make a very strong tasting squab like uh roast bones squab stock, but you you know you don't have that many squab bones, so what do you do? So what we would do then is take an already made stock, pack a not that much, you know, not that high amount of it in into a bag and circulate it, and then you can extract that flavor out of the relatively small quantity of meat and bones that you have and get a really squabby kind of a stock that would be difficult to do in a pot just because you don't have that many of them around, right? So that's that's one kind of an uh an application. But the other thing is is that you you have the ability to do full wet cooking, like you know, like a like a uh a poach, but in a much smaller amount of liquid. So if you start with a cooking liquid that is uh equal to uh or higher in flavor than the meat that you're using, then you will not leach uh you know huge amounts of flavor out of your meat.
You might transfer, like they might equalize in flavor somehow, but you're not gonna leach a huge amount of flavor out. If you add a bunch of water to the to the meat, then obviously you're gonna be leaching some of the flavor out, but a lot of times that's okay because we kind of like the flavor of like a mild poach thing when it's kind of in a stock, or if you're doing like a pot of feur or something like this, you're used to having the meat itself not be as flavorful because it's been leached out somewhat by the stock, but you can create a uh you know, because you're not using as much water, you can have it more intensely uh flavored. However, you're not going to have that much reduction. So you have to take into account the fact that there's no reduction and decrease proportionally the amount of liquid that you're gonna put in. The um other thing is is that usually when you're in a bag at low temperature, uh I mean you can go very high temperature, you could boil it, in which case that's not the case.
But at lower temperature, uh even though you're gonna extract flavors out as you cook in in a in a broth, you're never going to get that shredded consistency that you would get from the higher temperatures because it just doesn't happen in in the bag uh at those low temperatures. Now you could just put the bag in and boil it, which is what we would do, not boil it but simmer it, which is what we would do for squab stocks, because really we're trying to get maximum flavor extraction out. We're not trying to keep the meat uh of that stock at a at a kind of a nice eating texture, right? Because it's hard to get it kind of both ways there. Um the other caveat I would add is any veg that you're gonna put in, you gotta pre-cook because unless you're going to do very high temps, uh like traditional temps, in which case it'll all taste traditional, but if you're not gonna do traditional temps, you're not gonna cook the veg at the same temperature you can cook the meat.
Is this being helpful at all or no? Yeah, no, I think I think it's uh a matter of experimentation too. Because I you know, I don't really have that much experience with the bag cooking. Period. Yeah.
So I think it's just figuring out what works and and what doesn't. I mean, I think that I don't have a pressure cooker, but I'm also thinking that I should get one to combine the method to make a really intense stock and then combine it with meat cooked in bag and then sort of combine them at the end and maybe something, you know, in I I I imagine it could have, you know, more flavor of both elements than than doing uh just boiling in the in the liquid. If that makes sense. Right, sure. Well, there's I mean, well, okay, well, I'll break it down to you there in terms of kind of how to think when you're running your experiments.
And once you start thinking in terms of what the bag does uh versus what your normal cooking does, it's you know, it's it's pretty pretty simple. You got to break the bag down into two different components. You either A, use the bag b well, there's you a use the bag because you want to cook low temperature, right? In which case, now you're talking about uh temperature control phenomenon, right? And that's what you're aiming to work at.
Or two, you're using the bag because you um don't want to have to use a lot of liquid, and the bag is going to keep your liquid in contact with your product, right? So those are the two kind of reasons you you would choose it. The third is you're not gonna lose volatiles out of the bag, the way that you would lose when you're cooking, uh, and that's good for certain kinds of flavors that tend to change a lot because they uh volatilize as you cook. But you have to add to that the fact that there is no reduction in the bag. I mean, that's the primary that's the primary thing that people fail to wrap their heads around.
All other cooking techniques that aren't in the bag, even in some pressure cookers, although pressure if you're used to pressure cookers, you'll notice that you get much less reduction in the pressure cooker, even a venting pressure cooker, non-venting pressure cooker is almost like a bag in that you get almost no reduction, but that's very hard to kind of wrap your head around because when you're doing traditional cooking that's not sealed, right? You're used to at least getting even if it doesn't look like it's reducing that much, remember, as a meat cooks, it gives off juices. And as it gives off juices, those dilute the juices that are in the in the bag or in the pressure cooker, which is why do you do you think let's just say if for an experiment, what's just filled bottle with water, have a you know, a chicken in it, cook it without the bag? Is it you're not gonna get enough gelatin extraction to make have the stock have a body, and you're also just cooking it too low of a temperature to get flavor into the water? Removing it from the the the bag of the equation entirely.
Oh, uh yeah, I mean, look, uh uh uh a lot depends. If you like I used to do before I had the like Jacques Popin had a book that came out in the eighties that was kind of his two-volume set of how to cook the color one, not the black and white one that was great. And he had a uh uh a recipe for chicken salad that uh that was Danny Kay's original recipe. Uh, you know, the composer and actor and uh and uh conductor, actually, I don't know if he was a composer, a conductor and actor. And uh his old recipe for cooking the chicken was to load it into a pot, just barely cover it with water, bring it up to a simmer, and then cover it and let it ride, the same way that you know a lot of people do with uh in fact the way I do it, with boiled eggs, when you're doing a lot of hard boiled eggs.
You know, bring it up to a simmer and let it ride, because it's not gonna overcook that much as it cools down, but you're in that window of cooking temperature long enough that yeah. And uh I used to do that all the time, and I would always, you know, even if I was gonna take out the breasts, hack them up and pack them down, as long as your water to meat ratio is relatively low, the broth tastes pretty dang good. It does not gonna have the gelatin extraction, it's never gonna have the body that a fully cooked stock was, but it tastes quite delicious. Yeah. And so just to finish up, would if you're doing it going back to the bag with a minimum amount of liquid, do you want the liquid w what do you want to do with seasoning beforehand?
You want the liquid fully seasoned beforehand? And then salt the meat, or is that is it different with with a lot of liquid versus the minimal amount of liquid, or is it again you have to experiment to figure out what tastes right? I mean you you have to do some experimenting, but just know that that when you put raw meat into a bag with a liquid, the quantity of liquid is going to increase drastically when you cook, right? And so in general um you I kind of have to over-reduce. It doesn't necessarily mean over spice, but it just means kind of over-reduce.
Um and in in general, like it's hard to say with the specific recipe you're going to use. In general, when you're putting something into a bag, vacuum sealing it in a bag, a rule of thumb is if the seasoning in question has an aroma, right, then you decrease it, the amount that's going in. And if you have something that's no aroma, which really what we're talking about here is salt, right, then you keep the level the same because the bag tends to intensify flavors that um are very high in aromatics, think rosemary, think sage, and also like those herbs can, if they're in direct contact with uh meat in a bag, uh actually imprint themselves and make a little kind of like green spot and kind of like a weird funky flavor right at the point of contact if there's a hard vacuum sucked against an herb without any sort of liquid in there. So it as a general rule of thumb, I would uh salt everything as per normal. If the meat has the right amount of salt on it and even your hyper reduced stock has the right right amount of salt in it as it's reduced, then when they all come together, they should be okay.
Um and other things, you know, you decrease in order. Like I don't decrease pepper on the outside of my steak when I'm going to put it in the bag, but I do decrease things like rosemary. You know. Yeah, well, again, it's like another thing is remember if you what I typically what you what I'll do when I'm doing work in in the bag is there's certain things that I know I'm not gonna eat that are only for like uh a stock, right? And they're not gonna be for the final service.
And so those things I'll pressure cook and make a pre-pressure cooked stock that's like done, and then that one you'll at you'll reduce and add in as a base in your bag, and then you can get that nice kind of like poached flavor out with a much more intense flavor in the bag without overcooking the meat. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes perfect sense, 'cause that's a you know, some of these you know, something like turkey wings and bealbone and stuff like that that you're not gonna serve anyway as a meat. Yeah, roast them and pressure cook 'em. You know, hack 'em up, roast 'em, pressure cook 'em.
Remember when you're pressure cooking, you have to um one of two one of two problems will happen. Uh you either need to add a lot more uh alliums, like things like onion or garlic, um, because the the flavors of those things are very highly muted. So you need to add a a bunch of it. The the flip side of that is all of a sudden your stock becomes a lot sweeter. You know what I mean?
Or you can freshen it with a little bit of um like sauteed, whatever you like, you know, leeks, shallots, onions, whatever you like. You know what I mean? But you can freshen it up after the pressure cook with that. Or I mean I've come to really like that kind of muted sweet flavor, but I just like easily double or triple the amount of onion that I would add to a normal stock when I'm doing it. But it does come out a bit sweeter, is the one caveat I'll have to give you.
Okay. Well, looks like I have to invest in the pressure cooker. Oh, definitely. Definitely. This is super helpful.
I'll let you know, okay. All right, thanks for calling in. Uh all right, so wait, break. You want to take a break and come back with some more cooking issues? Mm-hmm.
All right, Jack. Hey, wait, Dave. How do you uh how do you pronounce pho? Oh, I'm terrible at that. I don't know that.
Yeah, a good one there. Yeah. I forget how you said it, but it was uh I never heard it quite like that. Well, there would I even mention Vietnamese? I thought so.
I don't know. I think it now I was probably saying something else, man. Oh no, pata pho. Oh French. Oh.
Yeah. Oh, my bad. Pata fe. We'll be right back. Special break song today by a band called Mamarazzi.
This is cooking issues on Heritage Radio Network. White Oak Pastures is the only farm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir or slaughterhouse. And it's um USDA inspected poultry abattoir or slaughterhouse. We partner with Whole Foods to deliver our high quality meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey. One family, one farm, five generations, 145 years.
Full circle return to sustainable land stewardship. You may need animal stockmanship. For more information, please visit our website, White Oak Pastures.com. Okay, Jack. When did you change the background to that to like porn ribian music?
I did that just for you today. Yeah? Nice. I like that. It's like, you know, he used to have like the, you know, does he know that his like well, no, it's an ad, he his ad is without music.
So whatever the break song is, that's what we play underneath his ad. So, you know, it's uh you never know what you're gonna get. Wow, yeah. I like that. Yeah.
Spices it up, you know. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Uh we by the way, we have a question that you're gonna have to answer later that came in uh that you know, hopefully, hopefully uh we get to. Cool.
Uh here's an update from uh Bryce J D on his rumtoff. You remember we were talking about keeping fruits firm uh as they're soaking in liquor over many months. So we have our uh several month later um update. I wanted to inform Dave of my results on dosing rum tough with Novo Shape. Novo shape is the enzyme, it's a uh pectin methylesterase enzyme that uh helps fruits stay firm.
Oh, or anything with pectin, it really stay firm. Like you could use it with cucumbers and you're doing just pickles, but you know, you could do things like soak it, uh soak uh you need calcium with it, but you can soak uh like raspberries with it and then boil the hell out of them, and nothing happens to them. Anyway, the fruit firmed up nicely. I started my batch in June and added fruit and rum throughout the summer. I was unable to use the fruit though, as it took on a nasty brown color.
Look at Mustazes. Oh, yeah, she I saw her. Her lip just went nasty brown colored lip because in her mind I think it's associated with fungus and spools, and we all know how she feels about that. Uh I strained out the solids and was left with a clear pinkish liqueur. The liqueur is quite nice, floral, fruity, and not overly sweet.
I was wondering if Dave may know why the fruit turned brown. It would have been nice to have the fruit for a short bread or ice cream topping. You could have baked it into something, though. You could have blended that stuff up, right? And made some, right?
Even if it's maybe we could have colored cover up the color somehow. Right? Mm-hmm. I don't know. It's gone now.
It's over now. Fruit's gone now. Uh it would have been nice to have had the fruit for a short bread or ice cream topping. Also, was the liqueur clear because the Novo shape allowed the fruit to maintain its structure and not transfer solids into the liqueur. Uh respectfully sent for my iPhone, Bryce JD.
Well, I guess that's probably a good point. I hadn't thought about that before, but that's probably true. It didn't break down, so the liquor remained clear, right? That makes sense. But as for the browning, uh what you're dealing with here is a um a kind of long, long-term browning effect.
You need to add some antioxidants to that sucker, right? So when you're doing it, you're gonna either have to add uh some escarbic acid to it, right? Although remember, that's gonna lose its antioxidant potential over time. Uh, but I prefer it, you know. Like, I don't like the sodium metabisulfates and all those things.
But you're gonna need to add some form of uh anti-u-oxidant to it, and that should inhibit the browning. Most likely what you're looking at there is some form of uh oxidative browning that takes course over a long period of time, even in under the influence of uh heavy alcohol, whether it's enzymatic in nature, even though that those enzymes are like mostly denatured or or destroyed by the um by the booze, or whether you're dealing with the fact that um you know the enzyme is just catalyzing some uh catalyzing something that would take place over a long period of time anyway, so you just need to prevent the oxidation from happening any way you know how. High booze, one way, and um antioxidant, another way. And so I would definitely add some antioxidants to it next time and see whether that helps. But anyone that has experience with uh that I encourage them to uh write in.
Let us know. Okay? All right. Um Joshua writes in about equipment. Greetings from Switzerland.
Yeah, Stas had her happy face on. She likes the Swiss. Well, she doesn't like the Swiss. She likes the country, Switzerland, and she appreciates their fondue and their cheese. I see, it's a fondue thing.
She loves fondue. Stas loves fondue. I was thinking of doing a fondue party next year for the kids. What do you think? That's good.
I think they like it. Yeah, I do. Chocolate, but I wanted to do also the boiling oil, old school, but but Jim was like, meh, boiling oil enough. Kids, yeah, maybe. I don't know.
Remember, my ten-year-old just threw wasabi oil all over the house today, so you know, that was a knockback in that in that direction. This year was sushi. That is an expensive party to throw. The sushi party. Jesus.
I bought the super fancy uh rice too, everything. Full on. Yeah. And man, those kids don't know how to roll. That's pretty hard though.
And then they want me to cut it right away, so like you know, I'm having to wipe my knife in between each cut because the grains are sticking to it. And so the kids just start eating it like it's a freaking tube. Like it's a fruit roll. In fact, he said it's a burrito, and I told Dax, I was like, Dax, who the hell taught you to make a burrito like this? It's like if you made a burrito in this fashion I would be I mean I said that I would I would become violently angry if you didn't fold the edges in I mean it it's not a burrito it's like a taquito it's and a taquito is fried you know what I mean I was saying so like I was so pretzeled by that whole thing and then like you know you have to dip your hand in the vinegared water but they're dipping their hand in the vinegared water and then touching the nori I'm like ah you know what I mean like it's like ruining the crunchiness on the nori and so why'd I spend all the money on the good nori I'm getting the nicest darkest densest crunchiest Nori flaming it with a Sears all to crisp it up.
That's what happens when you throw a sushi party for kids. Well they specifically asked for it but I tell you what Booker Jen likes a fine fair sushi oh god well first of all they're not talking about that on on air by the way if any of you ever meet Dax don't mention that I'm talked about the uh uh wasabi oil because he's embarrassed by it but Jen my wife Jen and I used to laugh at fine fair as our local supermarket and we're like I was like did that tell talk about us in the air already I probably shouldn't gonna get in trouble. Thanks Stas but now I have to tell people what it is. No but if someone's gonna who knows you never know anyway so we're all like hey fine fair sushi who's gonna eat fine fair sushi that's ridiculous. You know what I mean?
And lo and behold one day she wasn't thinking she buys the freaking fine fair sushi and wow I had to go pick her up like she was like on the curb she was on the curb couldn't move anymore and called me and I had to go go get her because she just got debilitated by the by the sweet, sweet, sweet, fine fair sushi. Just don't order, don't order a sushi from a like uh don't buy the the sitting out sushi at the at the supermarket. Don't do that. Jack, do you do that? No.
But listen, my wife is like a very not just educated, talented, but educated food wise. You know what I mean? So she knows it was crazy, so I don't want to hear anyone telling that I don't want to hear this story getting back there that you brought this up on the air because it's not her proudest moment. It's right up there with me licking lye by mistake. Yeah, yeah, you remember that one.
Anyway, how the hell did we get on that? Oh, Switzerland. Sushi. Sushi, sushi party. No, Switzerland, because next year I was saying we could do a fondue party.
Because fondue is a good product. The kids would enjoy that. But it's not really make your own in the same way that pizza and sushi is, though. Maybe it is. Whatever.
Uh okay. My question, this is Joshua from Switzerland. My question relates to kitchen equipment. I'm a proud owner of an immersion circulator and an even prouder owner of a poly science 300 chamber vacuum sealer, which currently doesn't work, but that's another story. Um I would like to know what else I should get to uh experiment in my kitchen.
I would like something that is versatile. I can't read what you actually wrote because it's a lot of little boxes and squares and doodles. Like, you know how that happens sometimes? Like this, see it? See it?
It's like all the boxes and doodles and squiggles, like like Linus when he talks, like Linus from Peanuts. You know they're having a new peanuts movie coming out? And they're changing well, whatever. I'm withholding judgment. I would like to have something that is versatile and which I can use to experiment with various foodstuffs.
My first thought was a centrifuge. Okay, so listen, if your first thought is a centrifuge, I'm gonna assume that you have like you know, a decent well, I assume if you're Swiss, you have a Kun Ricon pressure cooker, right? Because don't they give it. This is Swiss German though? And I'm sure this guy's Switch German.
There's no Italian Swiss person. Well, I was saying, like, when you're born, maybe in Switzerland, they give you a Kuhn Recon pressure cooker the same way that when you're born in Sweden, they give you a copy of the ABBA album so that it can still be like a hugely selling album, right? Um anyway. Um first thought was a centrifuge. Would you agree on that or would you look into something else?
And if you agree on the centrifuge, what do you think about the Beckman Coulter Allegra series? Thanks for your help. Cheers, Joshua. Well, I think a centrifuge is fantastic. I love it, but I mean, all depends on how much cash you have.
The Allegra costs. I mean, if you're gonna spend six six thousand bucks or six thousand euros on the next piece of kitchen equipment and and you're not blinking when you do that, then I think a centrifuge is a great thing to buy, right? Um, because it's extremely versatile, you can do uh a lot of different things with it. I looked briefly at the Beckman Coulter Allegra ones. Um their spinning bucket rotors look like they re only get up to about there's a bunch of different series, so you have to look at what you get.
Um their swinging bucket ones look like they can do three liters, but they look like they only get to roughly 3700 G's somewhere in there, which is like on the verge of what I think is kind of good for that price range. Uh, most of the people that I know who uh get new centrifuges for the restaurant or bar get headach, which is also available in I think it's German. Uh and it's also available in Europe. Wiley Dufresne uses a headache. Um, and uh Tony Canayaro in uh London uses a headache, and I think he also might have one in Paris as barber, I'm not sure.
So I would look at the headches, they have pretty good numbers and uh they work well. But I looked at the Allegra, it should work. If you can get one that'll swinging bucket that'll do 4,000 G's, then you know, all the better. But um it's a good question. Like, if you're gonna spend eight grand, there's a lot of stuff you could buy for eight grand, right?
Like a couple extra circulators, which I would definitely buy, or um what else? I mean, a Paco Jet. I would love to have a Paco Jet. What do you buy first, uh? What do you think I would get first?
A Paco Jet or a centrifuge? Centerfuge. Probably. For me though, but I do a lot of bar work. I mean, I think a lot of chefs would prefer a Paco jet.
I mean, if you look around, more there's more Paco jets than there are centrifuges around. Um good coffee setup is another thing, but it's not necessarily versatile. You know what I mean? I mean, if you could do a lot of bar, if you're not gonna do a lot of bar work, I don't know that you're gonna spend like that much time with your with your centerfuge. It's a good question, though.
Anyway. Um Derek writes in regarding ice. Hi Dave, I followed the procedure for making clear ice in the freezer from liquid intelligence, that's the book, by pouring hot water into a cooler. I left it outside uh um, as it says approximately oh outside outside. 35 Fahrenheit, so you live in the northeast somewhere or north somewhere, for a few hours to cool down, then put it in the freezer.
The next morning I opened it uh to add some stock cubes to an existing stash, and there were ice crystals all over the lid and walls of the freezer. If I were to fasten a piece of plastic wrap over the cooler the next time, would that prevent crystal formation in my freezer or or would it end, or would it mess up the ice block formation? Thanks, Derek. Um well it might mess up the ice block formation. What I would say is put the plastic wrap over it.
That will definitely stop uh some of the you know steam and crap from coming up, and then just remove it right as the ice is starting to form. Uh I would don't leave it on, you're not you you definitely want to get rid of any insulating layer between the ice formation and uh the ice formation front and the freezer as it's freezing, but I don't think it's gonna hurt the ice block formation to have uh plastic wrap over it in the initial couple of hours as it's cooling down, and that should greatly reduce the amount of crystallization you get all over the inside of your um freezer yeah yeah yeah okay um I mean what I typically do is I throw um I throw ice I use hot water put it right in throw ice cubes in and get it down to basically below room temperature and as the ice cubes are melting out and I just don't stir it and I put it in which is another thing but you have to have cu clear smaller ice cubes uh sitting around for seeds which is what what I what I do not really seeds don't think of it as seeds they're not seeds take back that take back the word I said seeds okay look who's here what who's here who's here Johnny Johnny Zini no from Madison Johnny Hunter Really come on in nice we are joined in the studio now unexpectedly uh Johnny Hunter from the uh from the Underground Food Collective in uh Madison Wisconsin how you doing I'm doing pretty well how are you sorry I I just heard recently that you did a pop-up in the Brooklyn yeah we uh we did two days at uh Fitzcaraldo so how was it it was great I have to say we've done pop-ups in Manhattan and the kitchen size is a little bit better in Brooklyn we found out uh yeah yeah I would say that that's true the the benefits were really nice so yeah it was super fun um friend runs the restaurant so we just I was like I had to come out here anyway so we we always try to like line it up between doing events and also other things we have to come out for. So what what did you what did what did you make anything? It was mostly an exploration of like fermented turnips. Yeah.
Um yeah, I don't know. It's like for us, winter is like Wisconsin, so much of our food. So I think it's our it's w we we really try to go big time with like fresh flavors with winter vegetables. That was the whole thing. And then we had a bunch of beef that was we called it old beef, so we aged it out for about six months.
And then we just served that raw. Um what else do we do? By the way, how frozen up is Mad Town right now? Is it's actually really nice. It's like 35.
It was there was like two weeks there where it was like negative twenty. But are people skating on the lakes yet or no? Yep. Yeah. That's the best part.
Uh the if you if you can be active, your life is much better there. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean like uh well, maybe it's probably not smart to visit in the wintertime for a non-person from there, right? Uh I think the first two weeks of January generally have these days that are just like people just don't know how to deal with it. It's like, you know, you get in and it's like really cold, and there are things you really need to be recognizing of like, you know, layering and just like having hats and good gloves and and making sure that you're not, you know, you don't have your kids out in like the the the harsh wet elements.
But the thing is is like people are just really industrious about it and like it's just a reality. Yeah, yeah, well. Yeah, you know, us us wussies here from New York, you know, we look down on the people from the south who can't handle the code, but we're like, you know, we're nothing. We're we're we're jack odds to you guys. I'm glad you're here actually, because I have a uh coffee, uh not coffee, a centerfuge uh another centrifuge question in, and I would like to talk about your story.
Your centerfuck story, if possible. Uh okay. So we got a question in last week from Steven uh Hoppy from Chicago. Uh and he said that contact he he wanted to know whether or not he should buy the centerfuge, and I said, Meh meh. I think that's what I said, roughly.
Meh. What was did it was it because of the brand or because of whether or not he should get it? Uh I couldn't see on the inside. There was a lot of like issues and it didn't get to a high enough. There's a lot of issues.
Anyway, I contacted a seller and he said they don't have a rotor for the unit. That's a parchfuge. You know? Yeah, I mean our maybe I just explain our experience with centrifuges because we have the University of Wisconsin there. Yeah, right.
And so they l we get about we I have like 15 now. You should go into business selling these suckers. Um it's been this thing where you know I've learned a lot about how to take them apart and use them and stuff, because it's just like it's like if something's not working, I was like, well just grab it out of that one. We we we haven't even plugged them all in yet. So you know, it's hard when I see people looking on eBay and asking a lot of questions, it's like, well, I gotta go and inspect them and look at them and stuff.
And so you do, you know, and I should say I do like getting new rotors because we had that experience where the rotor broke. That's what I wanted you to kind of talk about. Johnny is the only like cook I know of that's had a real freaking failure. Like a real freaking rotor failure. You want to describe this?
Yeah, so we have um what's the brand now? It's uh they had the square buckets. That I can't remember, but it was it's not the the Joule or what? Uh not the juan. I think wasn't it like didn't Beckman cool down use?
Yep, Beckman. Yeah. Um so we we had a Beckman and it had a glass top, which was awesome. Oh yeah, I've used those for they're awesome. Yeah, yeah.
Um and we you know, we went through and we, you know, visually inspected everything. Um but we didn't there there there's a there's a centrifuge company in town that will, you know, pressure test the steel and stuff like that. We need to disgrace everything. Yeah. So we did that, we do that now.
Anyway, so we had a bucket, we had a bucket that that broke because it had a hairline fracture that we didn't know about. And uh it threw the bucket into the wall of the centrifuge, which then moved the centrifuge three feet um and like shook the building, which is just like a concrete floor, and everyone was just like someone was standing, you know, near it, and it wouldn't it wouldn't have hurt anyone bad. Not bad. I mean like you know, like you know broken leg maybe, but it also happened like within the first week that we had it, and uh so like the centrifuge was definitely a scared thing around the kitchen, so we've taken a lot more precautions now. I'm glad you soldiered on.
He's like, it wouldn't have hurt any worse than stepping in a bear trap. That happens like every every other day anyway. So man, and yeah, the building's not like some sort of puny flimsy building that you should be able to hear minor things through. It's like it's an old bus station. Yeah, well, the here's the good news though.
The good news is, and I had been worried for a long time because it's the same class of centrifuge that you know a lot of us have, which is the three-liter bench top fuge. Um and they all roughly do about they all well, they hold roughly three liters and they roughly do about four thousand G's. And I had never seen one fail, so it always been my impression that no one would die. And then when Johnny was like, hey, it happened. I was like, hey, did anybody die?
He's like, No, I'm like, sweet. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was uh that Mark the Spark was the person sitting next to it. Oh classic. Classic.
Uh all right. So uh we had a uh this is more of a comment on uh last week. Uh remember we were talking about my uh new coffee grinder thing that I was working on, Orphan Espresso. Remember us talking about those guys? You know those guys orphan espresso?
Yeah. Do you know them personally? No, I just seen their products. Yeah, I really want one of the Pharoses, but the guy they just don't care. They make them when they come in and they sell out in like two seconds.
Yeah. The Lido too you can get. But um anyway, so then um who was it? Joel Esposito, who has a really good grinder, wrote wrote in this comment, which I thought was interesting. Um I am a coffee espresso, uh coffee slash espresso, so pour over slash espresso uh enthusiasts, and just wanted to comment on the hand grinders mentioned in the last show.
At the office I grind my morning cup in a Malkonig uh EK forty three with ninety-eight millimeter burrs, one and three quarter horsepower motor motor and photos attached. So that that happens to be a very large but a flat burr grinder. Uh and it's uh super popular over the past couple of years. It was uh not designed necessarily to be a coffee uh grinder, but since I think about like 2013 or something, there's been like a cadre of people that have been using it for coffee. And um the interesting thing about it is um um you you know how for those of you that don't know or think about grinders, right?
So every grinder we uh a lot of people like they split it into well, is it flat or is it conical? But you know, really even within those within those categories, every grinder has its own kind of gr grind profile, right? And so like the people who really care about this, what they do is is they take the grinds out of a coffee grinder or any kind of grinder, and then they plot particle size, uh the the frequency of the distribution of particle sizes. And for most good espresso grinders, you get what's called a bimodal plot, where you get some uh you know, uh a large peak that's centered uh in the kind of general range where you want your um coffee particles to be, and then you get another peak lower in what's called the fines, and you get these kind of fine particles. And um so there's a lot of debate as what the kind of ultimate uh grind profile is, but the truth also is is that uh any grinder, the more you tune it down to be finer, right, the more bimodal the plot becomes because you get more fines out of something when you when you tune it down.
So then the there's a lot of questions, and you can just go on the internet and look up particle distributions for different coffee and you can see it. But the this uh the EK43 is renowned for making of like a good kind of grind ratio that can work with a lot of different kinds of coffee etc. It's more even, isn't it? That's what that's what they say. Yeah, there's fewer particle.
There are fewer fines, I think. I gotta go back and look at the thing, but you gotta remember also, uh I mean, think about what a fine is doing. So if the fines are doing two separate things, right? A fine is A gonna extract faster because it's fine, right? And B in um things like uh espresso uh fines migrate to the bottom of the puck and like cause higher hydraulic pressures, so that you know you need a you would need a coarser overall thing to make up for the fact you have these fines because the fines are packing in between and causing, or in a filter they can clog up filters, right?
And so they can s they can change your flow rate as well as infuse differently. So I mean that there's m it's mul multimodal what's going on again, multimodal with what's going on with anyway. So that's just a little uh little preamble to Joel's uh comment here. So here's what he said, which I think is really interesting. Uh oh, let me get to it.
Um okay. At the office I grind my morning cup in a Malkonig EK forty three. Uh at home I grind in a small Hario hand grinder, very small burrs. Uh that's the little little which by the way I have it, but I just hate grinding it because it just takes so damn long. I know.
It it this is how I time like heating up my water. He's like, I try to beat it with the grinder. Actually, I have a I have a burr grinder now, but oh yeah, and I sit there and like you know how you get angry when you're turning that knob and and it and you you push it too hard and the beans fly out of the hotel. And then the knob comes off and then the threads get stripped. Um I'm familiar with all of those things.
Yeah, it's nice. It's it works. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh so they uh the hand grinder, very small burrs. Uh the former is a beast powering through a cup's worth of coffee before I can hit the off button.
That must be nice. Uh the particle size distribution is incredibly even, and the first uh uh cup I ground in it had practically no fines. I think he's talking about the Malconig again here. Okay. However, after breaking in the Malconig, I've noticed uh a marked increase in fines production, which uh seems to not only create muddy flavors in the cup, but somehow simultaneously masks the wonderful volatiles that I paid hard-earned money for in single origin coffees at the local indie shop.
It's not a huge issue for single cup pourovers, but when you're brewing two to four cups, six ounces each, the pesky fines impede the flow of water and slow the extraction rate. Makes sense, right? I've done side-by-sides, actually back to back, seeing as I can only prepare one cup at a time uh of the hario unsived versus oh, and then uh he didn't mention this, but he he bought a uh a humble, which is a manufacturer, uh, uh a 500 micron sieve. And so he's sitting there. Uh somehow this got confused in the in the in the email thing, but what he did was is he took his heart his uh his hand grinder and put it through a sieve to get rid of the fines.
Yeah, so there's that guy in Madison who does that. Professionally? Well, he like he he works at shops and stuff and he'll like sieve the coffee. What a bitch, huh? Yeah.
Anyway, but I mean I I love it. I appreciate it. Anyway, so um so he did the he did a side by side of the Hario unsivved versus passed uh through the uh 500 micron sieve to eliminate the fines. Not only does the flow rate improve, which we would expect, uh, but he gets the same quality that he gets out of the 98 millimeter um flat burrs on the uh Malkonic. He says it's an equal cup quality.
That was like a three thousand dollar grinder. Yeah, somewhere in there. So there's always he's saying for like a hundred and hundred bucks or like si I mean, the sieve would be like fifteen bucks to create. Yeah, like thirty maybe. Yeah.
Like if you buy it pre-made. Yeah, it's like thirty bucks. Yeah. So this is what he's saying. Uh oh, by the way, he says he doesn't waste the fines, he simply adds them.
And he said actually, he says it's as good as the Malconi was before like when it was brand new before it started creating the fines. Yeah. So it goes back to where he back to where it once belonged. So he said he doesn't waste the fines, I simply add them back to the rest of my coffee during the final phase of extraction or uh run them through my Goggia cra uh classic, which surprisingly produced a drinkable uh shot of espresso. Uh this method still has a wider range of particle sizes, but all that matters to me is the perceived end result, knowing that I may uh because remember there's larger ones in there that you wouldn't get in the Malconic like bigger ones.
So therefore he says knowing that I may have failed to extract a few parts per million of solids from a couple of larger coffee chunks doesn't bother me. The bottom line is the $35 Hario plus a sieve produce a cup comparable to a 2k plus grinder. We we used to use the harios to grind pepper for our salami company. And we would take drills, take the top off, and just like grind the pepper through it. It was great.
Yeah? Yeah. I had to I don't know whether I've seen a lot of drill mods. You know, as someone asked, okay, I uh my whirly pop from my roaster, I put a motor mod on that with a small one. But someone asked me to post it.
I'm gonna probably go to home barista and I'll post it on something like that because I have like a you know um um an STL file to put it. Yeah but uh do a lot of people put drills onto the hararios or no? I'd never I was just like grinding pepper one day. Is there a bitch? I have the Lido, the Lido 2 grinds, I mean it's a slower than you know, my you know, Ranchillo, but it's a lot faster than the Hario.
Yeah. Yeah. We um we also use the drill for Cavitelli makers. Yeah? Oh, could book book Yeah, you just put a drill on the back, just whip through it.
Another note on the Hario, by the way, is that uh so there's a big um there's a big thing I'm gonna do, right? And they're gonna kick us off a second. There's a big thing I'm gonna do with uh whether or not your burr should be suspended on both like anchored on both sides, right? When you're doing a burr and a grinder. Uh and so a lot of the people that have done kind of mods do one side mount only.
The guys at Orphan Espresso, um, they're a believer in firmly mounting the burrs. Yeah. Right. Uh and you know, that's I guess one of the reasons they say that they get like good distribution on their stuff. I think it moves.
I noticed that. Moves up and down, yeah, but not left and right. Yeah. Right? Oh, the hario you mean?
Yeah, the hario moves around. Yeah. So if you mount it on the bottom, that would be great. Right. Well, he sells, so that's why the Orphan Espresso sells for 14 bucks a uh a plate that you can bolt into the bottom of your Hario that mount pins it on both sides that you then adjust and tack it down for 14 bucks.
And he's what he says in the in the thing in his explanation of it is that, well, if you do this, it will no longer be good for espresso. But it's good for coarser coffee. I want to go back to the sieve. Why can't you just create a a wider sieve to let the grinds go through that you want? And then a thinner one, and so then their middle packet you get, you know, completely consistent.
Oh, yeah, you totally could. Yeah. I mean it seems like You totally could, but you you could choose exactly the range you want to pass. You get I mean if you're a real n like nutweed about it, you could just have it like you could get small one and put it in one of those little blah blah blah. You know those little and then like just grind into the and just pull the middle guy out.
Like put a little, you know. And then you can make like another extraction with the fines and the large and you know, compare it. But I don't know. Uh the people say that that some difference in in grind size is good for flavor. It gets a little too flat out at the same extraction.
I don't know. Well, yeah, I mean, look, they're gonna extract differently with bro with brewing kinetics, right? It's all about the kinetics of it, it's gonna change. But I guarantee you you could sell someone if you had like mega coarse and then like the fines and then like the in-betweeners, you could definitely like, especially if you did different brewing styles for each one of those three things, you could be like, well. Yeah.
But I need to become an expert in kind of pourovers, because I don't know any, I'm not so we but that would be it'd be interesting thing, right? Like like take the same exact bean, grind grind them at the same time, produce three entirely different cups of coffee with them. Yeah, with a you know, forty dollar hand grinder. Yeah, and uh and a little wagon of w- Well, you know what I'm modifying modifying my Lido 2, which is the Orphan Espresso hand small hand grinder, um, to be stationary. Oh, that's nice.
Yeah, so see, because I I hate unscrewing the glass because every time I unscrew the glass jar from it, so it's got a glass jar, just like a Hario does, but y it's very easy to screw up your uh grind when you unscrew it. So I'm and I always break the jars. Really? I'm not gonna use a jar anymore. Yeah.
Jar, we can get rid of it. It's all plastic now with a little cup. That's what I that's what I'm doing. Uh okay. So there are there's some we're not gonna we don't have time, but I got some good uh comments back, especially with like a uh a liqu on liquid intelligence, the book, with someone who's got a um a method to fake the Thai basil dacquery if you don't have access to Thai basil, which is kind of cool.
But we'll have to get to that. Who doesn't have a like do they not have like an Asian grocery store? Yeah, they went to somebody's house or something like this. Yeah. Okay.
This has come up before uh for me before. Um but but actually I wanted to mention these two Amazon I have two favorite Amazon reviews that just came on. I got a three-star and a one star, right? Recently. The one star I think is the three-star thing is worse than the one star.
They're they're both pretty bad. But why don't you why are you? So the one star is a great book for a chemist. For the layman mixologist, it is too much useless information. But that's one star?
That's one star. One minute requires chemistry. Too much of a degree. Which is not true, dude. Let me tell you what, one star is I've given you incorrect information.
This useless person could just open up to the one like f four-page section where I just put like 50 classic cocktails in with like how to make them and their specs and easy to look at format. Rip it out and throw the rest of the book away and it's worth more than one freaking star. But also, why uh why is that a criticism? Like, why would you buy this book? You know, if you want like just easy cocktails.
Like, you know, like it's like this book is for a specific audience, you know. If you were to just to do, oh, here's 50 classics. Who cares? Yeah, that book's been written. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anyways, that's it. That's that person, they need they need to get crushed. You know what I mean? But here with here's the other one. The three star was this was a gift.
I think it was liked, but I can't read it since it was not for me. It was a gift. Three stars! If you can't rate it, you can't rate it! Don't rate it.
So was the person giving it as a gift? Yeah. They gave it as a gift to someone else. They were gave it three stars. I'm like, I don't really know whether it was good or bad.
I think the person I gave it to liked it, but I can't really rate it. So I'll just rate it in the middle because I don't know. It could be, you know, like what does that have to do with it? A one star review should be that the the author is like either grossly inaccurate, or if the book is horribly written, or they suggest something abhorrent, like chumming babies. You know what I mean?
And like anything else, you're just a jerk. You know what I mean? Uh, people. People. I flag.
We we sold a lot of your books at our butcher shop because people just buy stuff during the holidays. Oh, nice. So I was a little worried. People are just like, we're just gonna buy what's ever here. We have like two books there.
And like they're like, okay, well, let's be good. So a lot of people are like, hopefully, there's a lot of people out there searching for their own home centrifuge systems now. Well, but remember, like in the book, I say like I don't expect you to buy any of this crap. Yeah, you know what I mean? But uh I'll give you ways around it, but uh why not tell you how we do it?
Why not tell you how we do it? Alright, so we're not gonna get to Alex and Toronto's question, nor are we gonna get to uh Louis uh Frederic Michel. Hope I got your name right. He said good luck with pronouncing that one. But uh but the thing is if I'm gonna do it America style, it'd be like Louis Frederick Michael.
Right? That's how you do it American. Michel, probably is how it's uh supposed to be pronounced. But on the way out, Jack, you're gonna have to chime in on this one, and Johnny, you chime in to Dave, Nastasia, and Jack's favorite bands and Johnny's favorite bands. And PS, can we get Dave to do a certain mix a lot style?
I like big burrs and I cannot lie. And I won't. I won't. Why not? You've done it.
But you won't do that. Big burden. Oh, well, those other brothers can tonight. You've done it before. Yeah, come on.
I've never done big butts, have I? Yes. Really? Yes. Do it.
If I've already done it, we'll have to search the thing. So what do you got, Jack? What's your current favorite? What do you listen to? I answered him.
This was my list. You can make fun of me if you'd like. So it was uh Radiohead, Bjork, Outcast, Apex Twin, The Flaming Lips. Oh, yeah. That's my list.
Well, Stas saw Bjork at a party, and you know what Stas's comment was? Dirty tennis shoes. Yeah. She said, the lady is so rich. What's she doing with dirty tennis shoes?
I don't like Dirty tennis shoes? I'm wearing the dirtiest tennis shoes right now. You're not Bjork. Yeah, you're not true. I did get on the train today and I saw someone's white shoes, and and these are like three weeks old, and they're white and they're now they're gray.
I was like, oh my goodness. I like the phenomenon of people that wear only white and they get filthy, like filthy white. That's like Kareem Rasheed, the famous designer's got the filthy white going, which is kind of sweet. At least it used to. Okay, what do you got, Johnny?
What do you got for us? Uh Sonic Youth. Yeah? Yeah. Like old school Sonic Youth?
Old School Sonic Youth. I like that. Nice. Alright. Stas, what do you got?
I don't know. Come on, just name some crap you like. Uh or who do you hate the most? Who you love to hate? Yeah, Nastasia's hate list.
There you go. No, when I was working out yesterday, I was listening to The Croachy. Oh, Jim Croce? Dean Nick Dean Nick. Like Stas likes any anyone who crashes an airplane in the south with smashes.
Is that true? No. No? Like that little girl in Kentucky or whatever. Oh man, the one in the crawled or that was crazy.
We talked about it on the show for some reason. Anyway, what do I like? Stas does like the crochet. So for those of you that don't know us, like Stas and I have a couple of like internal running jokes that we do that we don't do on the air. So Jim Croce was uh well known.
Well, one of his famous songs was uh Yeah Operator, right? And then he's like talking to this operator, and he's like like chewing this freaking operator's ear off. So Stas and I are joking about like the hell's wrong with you. The operator doesn't give a crap. You know what I mean?
And then like he at the end is like, you can keep the dime. Well, of course she freaking can. She's trying to. It's a phone companies. Well, yeah, whatever.
Right, it's not even hers. The other one that we always do is the uh what's that song called? I know it's oh, I just had to say I love you in a song. Where it's like, calls up this lady, and he's like, I know it's kinda late. I hope I didn't wake it.
He keeps on freaking talking and talking. It's like 3 a.m. in the freaking morning. He keeps on talking and talking, and Stas and I are like, the phone rings at 3 a.m. And you're like, who died?
Who dies? And he's like, I know it's kinda late. And you're like, what the hell? Anytime like he called us, he'd be like, eh. That would be all we got.
Anyway, I'll talk about my favorite bands next time. Cooking issues! Uh well, what I I like so many different kinds of bands. Give him one. Yeah.
Yeah. Uh for country, I like Merle Haggard. Perfect. All right. Cooking issues.
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