Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information, visit Heritage Foods USA.com. Hey, hey, hey, I'm Jimmy Carboni from Beer Sessions Radio. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit Heritage Radio Network.org for thousands more.
Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network at Robertus Petruina in Bushwick, Brooklyn, every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245. Joined as usual in the studio with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing? Good.
Good, good. Glad to hear it. And of course, we got Jack in the engineering booth. Hello. And special guests in the studio today.
We have two of them. We didn't get uh even though Harold McGee is in town, he's not our special guest today. He's on a he's on a leash for the Museum of Food and Drink. More to announce on that in the next couple of months. But we are super pleased to have in the studio with us today.
Ariel Johnson, who is the uh the head researcher at MAD with 1D. You want to describe what that is, Ariel? Oh, so MAD is uh started as a symposium and is like a food and food research nonprofit uh that's run out of restaurant NOMA in Copenhagen. Yeah. And and NOMA is like uh anyone ever heard of that restaurant?
Maybe maybe a few people. Maybe a few people have heard of that restaurant. Um also Don Lee. And uh Don, you want to tell them what uh what you do-ish? I currently work for uh Cocktail Kingdom, doing a little bit of product development and also working on trade education now.
Yeah. Uh yeah, more like uh more like Don is the evil overlord that runs kind of the back the behind the scenes of the way the cocktail like world works. Like that's your his actual title is is Evil Overlord. That's yeah, that's the subtitle. Yeah, yeah.
The invisible hand. He's actually, yeah, yeah, the invisible hand that feeds uh or or removes. But he's not an evil overlord. Benevolent, though. Benevolent overlord.
In the sense that an overlord can be benevolent. In a true uh kind of uh Aristotelian platonic, you know, kind of uh philosopher king. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, so he runs he runs he runs the kingdom for the betterment of it's aptly named Cocktail Kingdom.
Yeah, that is apt. You know, because he yeah, runs the kingdom. Anyways, Don may or may not also uh oh and by the way, uh Ariel uh before she was the uh the researcher at um at uh Mad there uh Noma uh was a your postdoc there, right? No, no, I was uh like PhD student. PhD students so got her PhD from UC Davis, and her uh thesis was on the bitters.
B bitters, correct? Correct flavor chemistry. Flavor chemistry, specifically of bitters. Uh and so uh we have them on the we're gonna get some by the way. If you have any questions uh for this crew, I encourage you to call in to 7184972128.
That's a 718-497-2128. And uh because we have no sense of uh brains, like we like uh I didn't heat up water beforehand. Um we're gonna be tasting a little bit later on uh in uh the program this product called Vipova. What the hell does that mean, Vipova? Did anyone read their literature?
No. No. I think I think they had some kind of statement that it's about like vitality and something else. Vitality? It's one of those invented words.
Yeah. Yeah, nah, vitality. I don't know what the Pova part. Pova, like Pavlova? Maybe.
Pavlovian. Do you like? Well, I was thinking of like the uh the Oh, like the delicious dessert? Yeah. Yeah.
Do you like those? Yeah, they're delicious. What are your thoughts? Meringue's and fruit and cake or you know what's a good word, like not related, but I'm just thinking of piping stuff out. You know what's a good word?
Dequoise. Decoise, that is a good word. Good word, right? So uh Ariel may or may not be an expert in the chemistry of what's uh going on uh in this, and Don may or may not be an expert. Oh, what is this Vipova uh stuff?
Uh this Vipova stuff is uh a legal tea with cannabis extractives in it, and Don may or may not be an expert on cannabis extractives. When he is in certain states, jurisdictions and countries, he's an expert. Now he's Lan D, right? Oh, oh yeah. Yeah, we have another person in the studio, his name is Lon D, and he's gonna be discussing his maybe first hand knowledge with maybe products uh like this, right?
Yeah, he's coming soon. Yeah, yeah. He'll be here in a minute. So uh so you guys want to weigh in on exactly what it is that we're gonna be tasting here, what this Vipova stuff is? Anyone?
Anyone? Anyone? Well my my guess is that it's basically like uh they just took some hemp oil, extracted some you know, cannabinoid compounds into it, and then put it into the tea in the same way you would make like an earl gray tea instead of bergamot oil. It's just some kind of cannabinoid oil. Yeah, they took one of these like low THC strains that you can get um that's like high in the other cannabinoid compounds, and then enrich that by like a fat extraction entity.
Okay, so why do I want that? First of all, is it is it a tasting? Like, do you like the tea? If you had had marijuana tea a lot or extractives, do you like the taste of it? I've never actually tried doing a water extraction in the kind of a tea sense because you're not gonna extract it because it's a oil soluble.
Exactly. So you normally wouldn't do that. Uh the flavor though would be, you know, it just would tastes like dried grass mostly. It'd just be bitter. It wouldn't really be a specific kind of uh like maybe sort of vaguely herbal.
Right. Like your bumate? Uh a little bit more green than your mate. Do you find your remate nasty or good? It's okay, but it's it's almost more of a bark kind of uh uh flavor.
It's more tannic. Hmm. Really? It's not woody. It's surprising that it's like why is it compared compared to marijuana, I would say.
Oh, uh oh, mata is more than a any ideas you guys on why anyone would want this to have this stuff? It says it gets rid of schizophrenia. It says it does a lot of things. Count me in. Yeah.
Yeah. Uh there's cancer, apparently. Yeah. I mean, so like cannabinoids as like a class of compounds tend to have varying different effects on like the brain and your neurochemistry. Um, and where like THC is really good at psychoactive effects.
Cutting you stoned. Um the cannabidiol has like other less sort of stoning mental effects. Like well, it's like supposed to help with like anxiety and depression and can like stabilize more like uh other mental disorders like schizophrenia, apparently, maybe. Well, it's just according to their data or stuff you've read, I've got to be a few. I mean, I actually I Googled this this morning and there's like there's a lot of interest in like C B D as uh as like a therapeutic cannabinoid.
Right, right. A lot of interest, but but no uh not a lot of uh studies in except for specific. Oh yeah. So did you know okay. It acts on like different brain receptors than THC.
Right. So is the is the question is is that for those folk that self-medicate with marijuana to to get themselves mentally right, which you know we all know. You know, uh so is the speculation that's not actually the THC that's helping them self-regulate, that's just a side benefit. Well they might want to be looking for like a high cannabidiol strain rather than a high. So why not both?
What's wrong with just having both? Well, you could do high both, but why not? Yeah, why not do why not do both? Why not do both? Indeed.
Uh Uncle Sam, that's why. Yeah, yes, he's holding us back. Exactly. Government conspiracy. So like uh the like uh d do this like does this uh C B D stuff and I say what is it, cannabba what?
Cannabidiol? Yeah. Does this cannabidiol stuff uh like uh make you confused at all or no? Can you operate heavy machinery while you're using cannabidiol? I guess we'll find out.
Like uh well, I have no heavy machinery to operate. I'm sure we can find it. We can probably get some. Yeah, find some Jack, you got any heavy machinery over there? Um I'm not d would you count recording equipment as heavy machinery?
Only if you lift it up and try to throw it over your head and put pretty heavy. Yeah. I can make heavy sounds, I mean. Oh my god, do you have one? Let me we should get one before we go to what's the stuff that makes you hungry after you've uh smoked up.
Is it this stuff or is it? I I don't know. I think it might be THC though. Oh, that's straight up THC? I I think like the um this helps like counter some of the like negative effects of THC, like uh paranoia and such.
So this is not gonna make you paranoid. This will not I don't think so. We'll find out. Yeah, we'll find out. Well, but Stas says it takes like five hours to kick in, so we'll have to let you guys know next week how we feel.
I don't know. I don't know how this works. By the way, so like we're not gonna have to load up the chopped and screwed version of Mary Kate and Ashley's uh pizza song. Pizza. I think we should Piazza.
Share that with the world, Dave. Pizza. That's like I just learned about that yesterday. See, I'm so behind on my internet like uh viral videos that uh, you know. Anyway, we didn't talk about the chicory ice cream last week, right?
I didn't get to that one. I did. I did talk about chicory? All right. I like to get I like to you sure I got to the chicory?
I think so. Jack, did I talk about chicory last week? I don't remember. I don't think so. Stas was just about to Ellie wrote in and was just about to get nuked because Stas was like, Yeah, I don't care about that question.
I don't want you to answer it ever. Whoa. Okay, and uh Ariel, you'll be good on this. Uh and you never you ever do you like you Don, a frequent denizen of New Orleans, do you enjoy chicory coffee? It's okay.
You hate it, like a good person would. It's it's quaint. It's the the custom of uh you know of New Orleans. So the same way they'll have a beignet when I'm down there. I don't really look for one up here.
I'll have uh you know a little chicory coffee with my beignet. Yeah, I think it's n well, I don't like milk in my coffee, and they dump so much milk into it to make it palatable that like I don't know, yeah. Do you know that I don't know? I'm not gonna get into it. Okay.
Uh I was recently trying to make chicory ice cream and started off by simmering the milk, turning off the heat, and dumping the ground chicory root in it like I would do in making coffee ice cream. Well, that did not go too well, and the milk curdled a bit. I suppose chicory is acidic question mark. I assume chicory is acidic. Right?
I don't think it's looking it up for you. Or is it maybe some other reaction to cause the curdling? Maybe a lower heat would not cause this to happen. What is the best way to infuse something like that? Uh ISI or maybe cold infusion in the fridge for a longer period.
And idea, any idea if there's a listing of some sort of rule or th of thumb for ingredients that could curdle milk like that and should be infused some other way. By the way, I did not throw away the curdled murk milk murk. Pizza. I strained it very well and blended it with 50% sugar by weight. I'm hoping to use it in cocktail experiments and see how it tastes.
Any pointers about that spirits methods. Any pointers on that, Don? Like chicory whey? Chicory whey. Chicory Hway Whey.
You could I mean worst case, just try to try freezing it and using it as your ice. You can add a little bit without making too much chicken flavor. But he turned it into a simple syrup. It's already a syrup, yeah. Shake with it.
Shake it. Yeah, shake. See what happens. Shake, shake. Like a Polaroid picture.
Yeah, shake it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. See you shake your tail feather. Anyway, my point is is this.
Here's your problem. You have many problems. I almost guarantee you, you know what I mean? I mean, I don't know. I'm not saying I may, I mean, in terms of chicory and ice cream.
Like, but uh, I think what it is is uh milk is one of those things that's balancing, like, you know, balancing itself on the edge of curdling pretty much all the time. So if your milk is older and it's had bacteria growing in it for a while, it might be slightly more acidic, which is gonna make it more apt to curdle. So you could raise the uh pH a little bit with a pinch of and I wouldn't do this, but you could raise the pH a little bit with a pinch of baking soda, yeah, Ariel. That's gonna but not a lot, because if you take it, if you take it too high, it's also gonna be stable. Like pro like milk wants to be in a specific kind of range of pHs, which is where it kind of comes to you in the jug or out of the cow, right?
Uh now, uh assuming that wasn't your problem or partial when you're heating it, the milk's gonna be less stable. And also uh there's a lot of um like uh like phenolic compound, polyphenolic compounds in chicory that uh you know, much like uh tannins are gonna cause uh and it might actually be tannin, I don't know. Yeah, it could be uh that are gonna cause uh things to curdle. So the same way that if you make an extraordinarily strong uh infusion of like sumac or any other kind of bark and heat in milk, you can curdle it. So uh there the good news is that you might be able to do exactly what you're doing if you add the sugar first, because high sugar concentrations allow you to stabilize.
So, like for instance, if you make a fifty it if you do a 50-50 milk uh uh sugar thing, you can dump acid into it and it'll thicken, but it won't break. You know what I mean? Um because there's just so much sugar that I guess it's I don't know why. It's just like not allowing the proteins to get together and curdle uh as well. Yeah, or like like complexing them in some doing something.
I mean, sugar binds water, so proteins bind water and that's how they fold. Right. So if you're assuming that I like a typical ice cream base that I would use would have a liter of milkslash cream and would have 170 grams of sugar. So I don't know if that's enough to stabilize it for what you're doing, right? Uh so you could either do a cold infusion, uh, but you or definitely add after you add anything that's gonna stabilize, like egg yolks or um anything like that.
I would just do your infusion after the stuff has been uh stabilized. Or else just do like a hardcore tincture of chicory and then add it as an alcohol, but just not too much so you lower it lower the rate. But uh almost certainly you're dealing with uh you're dealing with a ta tannin or other similar kind of like phenolic y crap, right? Yeah, I would imagine so. I mean I was tannin's a phenolic thing, right?
Tannin is a phenolic thing. Yeah. Yeah, and those like bind to proteins. That's how that's how like astringency happens. And that's uh as Mirville would say, why?
That's uh that's uh why uh we put milk in our chicory coffee, because it's unpalatably like uh like a stringent and and bitter, right? It's astringent and bitter, and the astringency stuff is the stuff that's binding with the milk and getting wiped out, which is why we add milk to tea and super strong uh super strong um tea in milk, I can get that to curdle in the presence of liquor. So in other words, like things that will like alcohol destabilizes, acid destabilizes, um uh tannins destabilize milk, heat destabilizes milk, sugar protects kind of milk uh to a certain extent. I think egg yolks pretty much pr protect it to a certain extent, starches can protect anything that thickens the matrix so that the matrix. Anything that thickens it so that the proteins can't agglomerate together is gonna stabilize.
Yeah? Yeah, maybe I mean it made me think for a second, like uh there might be some sort of like plant proteases in chicory, so like you can make like a like a thistle or a nettle cheese. So then you get like uh protein curdling via like protein breakdown like a rennet. Is chicory related to cartoons or something? I don't think so.
I mean it might be, but I I have a feeling your your tannin theory might be more correct. Right, but it is true. There are there are plants that have enzymes that coidle things, and so maybe it's there. So hey, so so liquor boss and bitters boss, like uh what uh any any commercial amaros that uh are chicory based? Hmm.
Nothing that know of. Not nothing springs to mind. Since you guys well, since we know at least Don has had chicory coffee in the past five years, like what do you think it would take like do like what kind of amarrow kind of bass would you want to make with something like that? Would you wanna do like a bitter's bass with it? Is it not a c is it not an interesting enough bitter?
Uh it's it's not that interesting to be honest. Uh I do birch before I would do trickery. Yeah, birch isn't that bitter though. Yeah, but that's why you add other things to it. Yeah, but as a bittering agent, you wouldn't use it as a bittering agent, like if you're gonna do like a a southern amoro, let's say.
Like a New Orleans amoro. Yeah, maybe. Like a like a birch and cane syrup and R Right, but it's not nearly as bitter as like Quasia or something like that. Right. Yeah.
Yeah, but br uh chicory isn't that bitter either, so it's that's what I'm saying. Well the chicory's not as bitter, so like you wouldn't pick it as a straight up bitter in because you'd use something else that is like bitter. Right. But uh so if he's got the chicory syrup already, he can do like a cafe burlot if he wants to go kind of New Orleans style, then you're adding coffee, doing a little like you know, rum flame job. Flame job.
Yeah. Flame job. Yeah. Is our t is our uh tea water hot yet? Oh I can check.
Yeah, so ooh. Doesn't it doesn't it make a little like happy sound? It's one of those jobs. Is it Zojirushi? Yeah, I think so.
You know, uh uh my Zoji Rushi rice cooker at home, I have the induction, the 18 cup, the one before the pressure, but at the time I got it, which was over a decade ago, it was the highest end one. And uh Booker, uh, you know, he's on the spectrum, right? So Booker used to not be able to stand the noise of the the music that the Zoji Rushi, and so he wouldn't let me cook rice. And so I had to rip like one day I just ripped open the Zoji Rushi and like just cut the speaker wire. So now like I forget that Zoji Rushi uh equipment plays tunes for you when it's done.
I don't even remember what the tune sounds like. Do you remember you know what a Joshirushi done tune is? I I have both a rice cooker and a uh like the hot water thing, and they play a different tune, but I could not tell you what those tunes are. Oh, so you sh but you're s like you theor do you think subconsciously, you know, oh my tea is ready. Or like or oh my rice is ready by the tuna place.
Well, I never do uh both at the same time, so well uh well assuming you did, like it should it should just come out and say rice. And just let you choose the languages, right? Rice. Yeah. Yeah.
Maybe. I never remember in uh I don't know how to say rice in in uh Japanese, and I never remember which one's rice in Chinese, the chow or the fan. Uh one's fried, one's rice. For the record I'm Korean, not Chinese. I well I know this.
But uh noodles are min, right? So uh chow is the is the uh the frying. So fan is the must be the rice, yeah. And so for completeness in Korean, what is it? Uh well it so in the Chinese character version it's poten.
Uh but it's usually you say pop as the kind of the the modern Korean way of saying it. And then in Japanese it would be uh Gohan, right? Is rice. Oh, okay, Gohan Society. Yeah.
Yeah, nice. All right. Well, it just goes to show how little I know about languages. Okay, uh is it ready? We are obtaining the correct vessels for brewing tea.
And what is the correct vessel for brewing tea? I would imagine a tea cup. Yeah. Are you are you guys gonna do like gong fu chai kind of stuff on this or what? No?
No. Should we play trippy music? Yeah. Uh when we're drinking it, we should play some trippy music underneath. I think so too.
Do you know how long this needs to steep for? Till it's done, yo. Uh okay, and uh Ellie also writes in P.S. Dave, the uh Lebanese halawa or halva, made from sesame paste and chock full of pistachios, kicks that Mexican uh fake halva, which is you know, remember the uh what's that stuff called again, uh Don? The Mexican, the uh I loved it.
I love it. No, it's called like the the wedding cookies? No, no, the the one that's basically like peanut paste. Yeah, yeah, it's got the like the little rose on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know. Other than being like the the peanut cookie. I don't know, it just went out of my head. It's this that stuff's delicious. But Ellie here is saying that like real hava kicks the crap out of that peanut stuff, or like the Brazilian version.
Anyway, I don't know. I don't know. What do you think? Are you a halva? I like hava.
It's okay. I'm not a big hava fan. But we do like those peanut that the peanut thing? Occasionally it's so dry though. It's named after uh Marza Pan.
It's called Mazapan. Maza pan, that's what it's called. Because it's like marzipan, but it's like maza pan. So it's what's hilarious is it's like java, but named after marzipan, and it's like neither, which is yeah, whatever. Classic.
Okay. Um see we got uh any more questions in. Did I handle the one about cooking I had to handle the one about batching your food, right? The one who wanted a guy who wanted to cook lean foods or uh Chris. Yeah, I handled that.
Uh all right. I handled uh the fermentation. I can't believe it. I I actually I actually think I got through. Did I deal with I dealt with Peggy with uh from Australia, her questions, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay. Oh yeah. Thank you. Remember that whole conversation?
Yeah, but there's another Australian. No, no, no. There's a Pittsburgh again. Oh, well, that's for today. That's today.
I'm trying to actually get through last week's last week's uh stuff. Which I think is uh, you know, like good. I think I think I've done it. I think I've done it. All right.
So wait, what milk? We're not we're not putting milk in. I'm not putting milk nor am I putting sugar in. Brew this stuff up. Brew it up.
Well you don't have to. I think the barista is just being nice to you. I don't I don't like when people are nice to me. I don't appreciate it. I know you don't.
I hate it. All right. Now, today's questions. Uh from Luke. Hey all.
Uh can you pass this question on to Dave uh and the crew? Is it possible this is a good one, Don, for you. Oh yeah. Is it possible to make cocktails while you're camping? My question is about ice.
How would it be possible to transport and or make ice while camping for a week? Thanks for the great show, Luke. Go uh hiking on a glacier. That's the easiest way. Uh uh exactly, which Don has actually done.
Like Don went camping uh in an R V though, so it's R V camping. But still camping. Still camping. That's another way to do it, have an R V in Iceland. Yeah, just go uh, you know, if you go in the winter, you go winter camping, go a mountaineering up in rainy air.
It's a glacier, it's always there. Yeah, of course. Then they probably want the hot beverage. Right. Yeah.
Well, but that's not the question. That's not well, presumably that's not the question. Right. The other question is how much stuff can you pack in, right? So it you can bring ice and uh you can bring ice and then like bury it in a pit in the ground uh and like a you know 40 pound block of ice will last a long time buried in a pit in the ground in an in an insulated container.
But now you're packing 40 pounds of ice uh in uh with you. Another thing you can do is uh you could you could does anyone make uh like a spot chiller like with CO2 cartridges that no one does, but if you wanted to take a fire extinguisher with you, you could basically make dry ice and like a pillowcase on the fly, use that to chill water if you really wanted to. Right. So pre dilute the stuff and then sh shh bring a dry ice bag. Yep.
I'm surprised no one makes like a uh so a dry ice, a dry ice uh maker attached to a twenty uh ounce CO2 like air gun bottle should be able to make on the order of seven ounces of dry ice, which is enough to chill like a good bit of cocktail. Right, but you the you're now you're carrying all this stuff in. So the real baller move is, you know, like if you're gonna go uh kind of like long distance backcountry uh Appalachian Trail kind of thing, you have people like leave you supply drops. So you just have a bunch of Sherpas go out multiple days in advance carrying big blocks of ice, buried in advance at your campsites. And then when you get to the campsite, you just have to dig it up.
Yeah. That's the baller move. That is a baller move. Also, you know, I think if you stick with um if you stick with uh drinks that are meant to be uh enjoyed at warmer temperatures, like old fashioned or something like this, you're not gonna get it down to technically to old fashioned, but if you dig a hole that is uh by the way, when you're bringing liquor camping, you should always uh buy the uh they make little uh bottle sacks. They're like like uh they're like water bottles that are plastic that hold liquor and they're incredibly light.
And of course you should only drink boxed wines when you're camping because it's incredibly light to bring boxed wines with you. And Jordan Anna's making cocktails on her burning man. Yeah, but she's going with an RV, that's easy to do. And you can buy ice every day there. She said you can she didn't want to.
She wanted to whatever, I don't want to get she there right now? No. No, it's uh two weeks. It's uh what was it, the last weekend of August, first weekend of September, something like that. Yeah.
Anyway, the other thing you can do is if you are going to be by a moving body of water, like a river or lake uh that you know has some kind of flow, a deep enough lake, if you are boating in any way, you can just get a mesh sack, you can put all the everything you want into watertight bottles, like like an Algene, drop it in, and then just hang that off the back of your boat. The water temperature will be pretty cold, so you get fairly cold drinks. So even if you have sodas or beers, it's a common way of chilling it if you're on the lake or like on a on a river. That's the same. Yeah, and the lower you go, the cooler it'll go.
And if you and I was gonna say if you're not, if you dig down to about three or four feet underground, uh even if you don't hit water, you're probably gonna get down to temperatures close to like uh in the fifties somewhere. And you want a real old school baller baller, sweet sweet baller trick. If you um if you put your uh bottle in a uh in a jug, clay jugs are the best, but you put it into a jug and then you put towels that lean out over it, you'll get wicking and evaporation, and you can basically turn your your bottle into an evap cooler. So if you wrap your bottle in uh in something that has a water reservoir so it stays moist, but it wicks up and air moves across it, you keep it in the shade, it will it will uh evaporate off, and you could probably get a good and if go on any of the old see back the the golden age of the camping book was roughly roughly eighteen eighty to roughly nineteen forty, right? That's the kind of the golden age of the camping book.
So you can look up uh there's uh a guy named Mason who wrote a famous one uh called Woodcraft. There's a bunch of famous guy named Sears who's who's uh went by the you know the pseudo-Indian name of Nesmuck wrote one. And all of these folks have these uh old um tricks on how to keep things cool. Now they're not gonna make ice, but they try to keep things uh as cool as possible. They're specifically worried about like stuff going bad that's refrigerated, like for instance, the animal you just shot in the face.
Uh but uh they all have uh strategies uh for for things like that. Another good way is to go camping in the high desert. It gets pretty cold at night. You get some serious evaporative cooling there. You could probably get a good temperature delta, like 20 degrees or something like that.
So, Dave, I'm back country camping by Lake Superior next week. So I'll try out some of this stuff. Yeah, yeah. Well, you should get a hold of that book, one of those books, Woodcraft. I think Mason does it.
There's another one, a famous guy, I can't remember his name, but they're all published between, like I say, like the late 1800s and the and the 1940s. So they all at they they they are prior to the leave no trace model of camping. And so like the first thing they do is fell a number of large trees. And then and then like, you know, like you know, have the person who brought your you know, you know, camp equipment in with you. Like some of them tell you how to trek a loan, but also some of them tell you how to do like the old gentleman's camp where you do have people that you hire to carry all your crap in.
Right. Nice. Like all your cartridges and guns and it's like burn a 30-foot circle for your campsite and salt the earth when you leave. Oh, you would not you would not believe uh Ariel, you would not believe like the would they're like if you need to make a uh uh a fire to cook on, like literally they fell two giant trees and make a V so that you have like like a larger fire fire as it goes down to a V, and then they fill the entire interior of this like 15, 16 foot long V with logs, light the whole sucker up down to coals, fell another tree to make like cross braces for like spits. I mean, it's just they're freaking bananas.
These folks are bananas, and they have people carrying like large cast iron. Remember, like things like Dutch ovens used to be camp camp equipment. Yeah, yeah. Would you carry one of those things into the woods? No, you would not.
No, you would not. Car camping. Car car camping or hired people camping. You know what I mean? That's glamping.
Yeah, but it used to just be like the way you did it. But then there was like the nutbags, like the Mures and whatnot, who would just like you know, go out there. This guy, Nesmuck, I told you about, he was one of the uh original like uh canoe portage guys all around the Adirondacks up in upstate uh New York, and he had someone build him like a uh traditional Native American bark canoe. He was a small guy, he was a very small guy, so he could get away with a short kind of a canoe, a small canoe. His canoe, I think weighed uh like under 15 pounds.
And so he just you know would just like you know go out with that and like his backpack and uh you know and chill. People, yeah, you can't really do that anymore. It doesn't really, I don't know. This stuff looks weird, man. This stuff's got emulsified colour.
So like the the tea bags have this sort of like greasy greenish color to them. And then as soon as you put the tea bag in the in the water, it becomes kind of cloudy. Does it is there any actual tea in it? It does have a bitter back to it. It has real tea in it.
Yeah, it tastes kinda like I was gonna say it tastes somewhat like tea. It tastes like tea. It's been it's been brewing for like four and a half minutes now. You've been brewing for four and a half minutes now. Not Don's.
Wait, are you drinking it? Yeah. Are you drinking? He's gonna do the news. There's two new.
Oh, do you want one, Jackson? No, no, no. I mean, I yes, I yes, I do, but I I should not. I'm w I'm working. Yeah.
Like we're not. We're not working. All right, I'm I'm sipping this uh this c oh. Oh dude. Dude.
How much of this do I have to drink to get anything? Well, you have the packet. You have like the I think the promotional. I don't think it could be. Well, as long as there's no psycho.
Well, there's gotta be psychoactive. Why why am I doing it if there's a why? Why? The aerial stuff. Hey.
It's like, you know, it's like it's like uh it's like O'Doules. All of the beerness, but none of the beerness. No, like in other words, this stuff what's it called? In my head, it's it's I'm saying uh uh CJD, which is Jakob's Kreigfeld disease, which is not what we want to see. See exactly C B D.
This has supposed to have some sort of benefit for me, right? I'm supposed to vibe my POV is supposed to get vibed up. It's it's like it's uh it's like homeopathy, though. It's you know, it's gonna make everything better. There's no science behind that.
Is it I don't know, is there well I don't know, like the I I don't know. Like someone's gotta call in, someone's gotta read. What do you think though? What do you think? Do you like the flavor of it?
It's not very good tea. First criticism. Second of all, I mean it definitely tastes like the like the cannabis oil. Uh I don't like that flavor. It's not Jack, you don't like that flavor?
No. By the way, I've learned a lot about Jack. And when he when we're gonna drink that, this is uh like that's the music that he puts on. Like I was thinking more like you see, I'm I'm not a user, right? I was thinking more like I was thinking more like Pink Floyd metal.
One of these days I'm going what's it chop you into little pieces? You know that song? Any of you guys listen to that old style Pink Floyd stuff? Yeah. Sometimes, yeah, it's good stuff.
I had to go with the royalty free, also, you know. Yeah, that is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you think Pink Floyd's gonna like really get on our case for telling people that we're gonna some one of these days we're gonna chop them into little pieces?
I mean, Roger Waters, yeah. I could see it happening. Wow, wow, calling him out. Yep. All right, let's take a commercial break and we'll come back, see whether or not we're uh psychoactively affected on the cooking issues.
Hello out there, it's Steve Jenkins. I'm with Fairway Markets. White Leghorn, Red Wattle, Bourbon Red, Navajo Churro. Well, these aren't names you're likely to hear at a Fairway Butcher Counter or any other counter today, but before the rise of factory farming, you would have. And at Heritage Foods USA, you still do.
Heritage Foods USA exists to promote genetic diversity, small family farms, and a fully traceable food supply. You see, we believe the best way to help a family farmer is to buy from them. And Heritage Foods is honored to represent a network of family farmers and artisanal producers whose work presents an immeasurable gift to our food system and to biodiversity. The meat we celebrate, whether it's Heritage Turkey, Japanese steaks, Berkshire pork, or Navajo Churro lamb chops, is the righteous kind from healthy animals of sound genetics that have been treated humanely and allowed to pursue their natural instincts. It's a simple fact.
Animals raised according to this philosophy taste better. And as we like to say, you have to eat them to save them. Visit us at oh, we're not. And we're back. And we're back.
Oh, by the way, I like how you cut him off right when he was gonna say to visit our website. He got high. He had high. I got high. I got hi.
Uh HeritageFoods USA.com. Speaking of That was the website. Yeah. Speaking of website, uh, like pretty soon you guys are gonna be able to. What's it called?
Live? What are you gonna live? They're gonna be able to live do? So many things. There's a forum there.
The new website's really awesome. Yeah, the live stream, you can there'll be a chat. So you can like actually chat us live. I'll I'll have it all pulled up here. So you know you can harass us, ask us questions, make comments, and then uh I can pass those on to Dave.
Right. So the way it'll work is is like let's say I'm not saying you're doing this, but let's say you're at your place of uh work and you have the headphones on, which by the way, when I was a kid you couldn't do that crap. You couldn't put headphones on when you're at work. You know. Anyway, let's say you have your headphones on and you're children's workplace.
Yeah, yeah, your cubicle. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, you have them on and you're listening to us, but you can't call in, but you want to say so you what you do is you'll stream crap in, Jack will see it, and you'll be like, hey Jack, tell those idiots that they're wrong, they're morons. And he'll say, uh, you know, blah blah at Hoosie Mutz at McBla says that you are, you know, idiots, right? And then you That's what will happen, yeah.
That's exactly how it's gonna work. And uh there's all there's other benefits, this new website that you guys uh helped pay for. Is this true or false? True. One hundred percent true.
Yeah. Um I have a caller. Oh, all right. Caller, you are on the air. Hi, this is Jeff.
Um hi Dave. Hi, Don. Hey Jess, how's it going? Hi, good. Um my question is kind of for both of you.
Um, I I know you and I got in a very intense conversation in New Orleans um in regards to categories of food. And I just wanted to know kind of Dave's perspective. Um we got in a pretty intense argument about um if a quesadilla it falls under the category of a sandwich. And I just wanted to know what they think. Okay, listen.
Listen, listen. Uh okay, okay, okay. I gotta calm down here. Let's let's just let's look at this in a from a number of different perspectives, okay? Define sandwich, Don.
I believe a sandwich involves two things of starch. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Rice? Something in between. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Squish rice? Alright, alright, alright. Arranged horizontally. I think you can make things with rice crackers. Oh, no, no, no, no.
That is a no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. You could make a you could make uh what is it? Uh uh. Rich crackers with peanut butter.
Is that a freaking sandwich? Is matzah with peanut butter in between a sandwich. You know what an Oreo is? A sandwich cookie. Not a sandwich.
So sandwich is an adjective as well as a noun. Sandwich is a category of the of the way you stack. First of all. It could be a bad sandwich. No, no, no.
First of all. Sandwich you don't want. Sandwich is sandwich is made here here's a sandwich is with bread. B red. B red.
What's it once again I go uh I go to the matzah example then. It is the the the bread of suffering. It is the you know. Are you gonna deny the Jews their bread when they're running away from the Egyptians? Two pieces of pizza flipped on themselves.
Are they a freaking sandwich? Only if there's something in between, but it's not pizza. Is it calzone a sandwich? No, because it's round. It's calzar.
It's like it's like a burrito. What? Burrito, definitely not a freaking sandwich. Clearly, much like a wrap. Oh, have a calzone.
Oh yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Quesadilla not then, because it's it's folded. Okay, here's the question then. What about a freaking if if you if you were down to the last slice of bread and you wanted to make a sad grilled cheese and you folded that last piece of bread in half with cheese and you've made it on a griddle, is that still a grilled cheese? If you believed in God, you would cut the bread in half rather than fold it.
Or even if you were an atheist with like uh iota of self-respect. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like my i but I don't know that this folded thing, for instance, a lobster roll is a sandwich.
And it's made on a split bun. Definitely not. It's a freaking sandwich. It's a hot dog a sandwich then? Obviously not.
I mean, in other words, it is a sandwich, but it gets its own category. Right? It gets its own category. The only thing that gets its own category is a hamburger. Hamburger gets its own freaking category.
What's a paddy milk? What's a patty milk? It's a kind of hamburger. My question is, is it now a matter of horizontal versus vertical? And how you actually consume it.
How would you construct a vertical quesadilla? No, that's that the hot dog is a vertical. Or or long, then it is why. The split in the bread is vertical, is what you're saying. Exactly.
Okay. So whereas a Italian sausage is a little bit more than a little bit of a big thing. So when you buy a crappy. When you buy a crappy hot dog freaking bun, and you open it too much to toast it because you're one of those people that toast their freaking hot dog buns, right? And it breaks into two and you hand them that crippled hot dog that falls through the thing.
Is it now a freaking sandwich? No. No, because if it's fallen through, it's still vertically stacked. It's not horizontally stacked. But then if you have to like rotate it 90 degrees.
Now it's a sandwich? Now you now you have a failure of a hot dog. So the Oxford Dictionary, what do we think? An item of food consisting of two pieces of bread. Two pieces.
With meat, cheese, or other filling in between them. Eaten as a light meal. What the hell? So would you say that it's shows what they know? Oxford, by the way.
Oxford English Dictionary, world renowned for being crappy when it comes to definitions of food or etymologies related to food or historical timelines related to food. World renowned for being the worst. Where did he go? Where'd she go? To life.
To life. The company subway, right? Do they manufacture sandwiches? A sub is a subcategory of sandwich, yes. Even though they're not split all the way in two anymore?
Look, in the old days, they would take the knife and then go shippy shippy shippy shippy shippy and rip the V out, and then the V would be a pseudo top to it. Now they just slice it in half because they're too inept to use the V slice anymore. And that's why if you get a subway now versus a subway 15, 20 years ago, it used to be you could eat them without it spraying all over the inside of everything, and now everything sprays everywhere because it's just how you eat a subway sandwich that's spraying everywhere. Because I get lots of toppings. I enjoy mayonnaise and mustard.
And so like the stuff like they they put it at the end and it freaking extrudes out of the side of the most important thing in sandwich is not the definition, it's the construction, the layering that goes into a proper sandwich. That's true. It's true. The worst thing you can do somebody is to silo their uh burrito. Have you ever done this as a joke?
No, what is it? When you give them when you make a burrito for somebody, you make them in silos of all the different ingredients the the wrong way. No, but that shows why a burrito is a piece of crap. Because it's got just too much freaking like I want my rice and beans separately. I want a small object, like that I can consume.
Burrito's e burrito, first of all, uh like a burrito is an inferior chimichanga. Right? And an inferior inch it's like an inferior it's an inferior product, no? It's an inferior product, I agree. Yeah.
What do you think, Ariel? Inferior to what? Well, like, for instance, like it would be better just if you deep fried it and turn it to a chibichanga. That's true. I would always rather have like two or three tacos than a burrito.
Oh, a hundred percent of the case. Yeah, I'd rather have taquitos than a burrito. I would rather have enchiladas, even though it's totally different than a burrito. And I would rat I would rather have a quesadilla, frankly, than a burrito. But is it a sandwich?
Quesadilla? Here's another thing. Like, is a s is an open face sandwich, even though it's called open faced sandwich, a sandwich. Not according to the Oxford English idiots. I would say yes, because the normal form is closed, and you have to denote that it has been opened.
But it doesn't serve they don't start it with an extraordinary. But don't a sandwich you have to eat with your hands. Oh. Here's an interesting question. Bill de Blasio would say you can eat anything with a knife and fork, including pizza.
In i i in Denmark, where I usually live, we have like open face sandwiches. Which are impossible to eat with your hands. You like literally cannot. Smorgus is always open. Oh, yeah.
Smore bread is always, always open. It is the net the normal form of a smorgas is already open. Yeah. So you didn't take a sandwich and open it to make a smorgas. It always.
But then if you ask a Danish person what a s'morabrod is, they're oh, open face sandwiches. But why would you ask a Danish person that? They're just being polite. They're trying to translate it because they all speak English and they're not worried about the like the nicety, the fine points of the language, right? You mean, right?
We got a tweet in. This is why this is what's this tweet about sandwiches? It's our buddy Elliot. He says sandwich argument, the same as pretzel argument. A sandwich is one thing, everything else subcategory.
Well, but the pretzel argument to me is there's no such like a pretzel rod is not a freaking pretzel. It's a pretzeloid. So sandwichoids, maybe. Okay, here's a case of pretzel? Pretz, it's like is Pluto a planet?
Nah, it's planetoid. I mean, it's in the same realm, although I don't I don't really think of anything with unleavened bread, sorry, matza-based sandwiches, as like like the actual hardcore category to me. It has to be leavened. So anything that with a tortilla base or like a roti is not a sandwich. Uh like anything that's got an unleavened bread base to me is not really technically how I think of uh uh as a sandwich.
To me, it has to be kind of a leavened bread base. Um I think it can be opened or closed as long as you uh designate it. I think it's like anything else. It's like pornography. I know it when I see it.
You know what I mean? It's like it yeah, a sandwich is you can just tell what it is, but a pretzel is super freaking clear. A pretzel, okay. Uh a pretzel is a uh a wheat dough that contains no oil. You hear that?
Bachman's. Uh pretzel contains no oil, right? Uh it's usually made with a sourdough kind of a leavening technique. It is rolled into a uh into a tube shape, twisted into a pretzel shape, right? It is a pretzel shape, right?
Uh it is then uh cooked in an alkali solution, briefly, to get and if it's not cooked that way, then it is a pretzel-shaped piece of bread, right? And then you can either cook it hard or soft, and you can have it with salt because you like things that are good, or without salt because you're a bad person. Or sometimes sugar. Some idiots dip it in butter, but I don't like that. Do you like that style?
This soft pretzel dipped in butter. It's not my favorite. Hey, here's one. I mean, I like butter, but like bagel's clearly a bit here's the interesting one. Is a bagel a sandwich?
When you cut it open? A bad sandwich. I don't believe in eating bagel top and bottom together. We've had this discussion. You shouldn't.
So it's a you could make a bad sandwich. Yeah, I've heard people like say that I'm bad because they like to eat their bagel top and bottom of the sandwich. Yeah, because those people are just wrong. We all know that. Well, I think the reason is is because they're eating a bagel that has no backbone, no structure.
So there's like if you have a bagel. Yeah, like a bagel should be eaten with like open food. Whatever you have on it should be open. Yeah, it should always be open. Always.
An egg sandwich on a bagel? You're opening that up? No, that's wrong. You should never put an egg sandwich in a big bagel. Egg sandwicher roll.
Come on. Jack, how long have you been in New York? Egg sandwich goes on Kaiser roll. 100% of the time. What?
Yeah. You're you one out of every five times. I get an egg sandwich. First of all, first of all, in my mind, I have that nasty, sallow, like uneven bagel in my head that you get at the joint that's making the egg sandwich. That thing's just an abomination anyway.
That was made like eight years ago, that bagel. Yeah. What do you think about the croissant sandwich? I mean croissant sandwich. Slicing a croissant open and putting something inside is a long tradition.
Is it a sandwich? No, it's a pastry. Ooh. Hmm. Hmm.
Different thing. Anyway, like I was saying, like there there are things like uh for or against. I would like if I said, if I said let's have sandwiches and someone handed me a hot dog, I'd get angry. If someone said, let's have sandwiches and they handed me a quesadilla, I would, I would, I would tell them to go to hell. Do you know what I mean?
I mean, that's just like honestly what would happen. If someone handed me something that's like closer to a sandwich, frankly, if someone if I said I want a sandwich and they handed me an open face sandwich, gravy poured all over it, like a piece of toast, some freaking like shredded dry as hell turkey and gravy on the top, I'd be like, I asked for a freaking sandwich. You know what I mean? Like, and you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Here's my question. I think we've done this before. BLT season coming up, people. And by the way, by the way, I had some of Nastasia's tomatoes on my first BLT of the season.
They were delicious. Thank you, Nastas. Yeah. Uh BLT sandwich. Do not let people make their own BLT sandwiches.
Because they will not put mayonnaise on both the top and the bottom piece of toast. Do not overtoast your BLT so that your mouth becomes excoriated from the BLT as you chew on it. That's true. Do not make a BLT from a bread with too much structure. This will ruin the effect of a BLT sandwich.
Do not make a BLT with some wimpy kind of like fancy Dan lettuce that doesn't have good crunch. My preferred BLT lettuce is iceberg. Crap on all of you. Anyone anyone gonna come out against me on this? What do you use?
No, I think that's correct. All right. A good tomato. Right? And like three strips of good bacon, salt, pepper, that's it.
You should also salt the tomato separately, and you should pepper the mayonnaise on each side of the bread. Amen. That is how you make a freaking BLT sandwich. What about a refrigerated tomato? Oh my god, you gotta get Daniel Chris.
Alright, listen. Listen. Listen. Get out! Uh we have uh we listen, Nastasia told me uh we're gonna get kicked off the air soon.
Hey, what are your thoughts on this cannabinoid tea? By the way. Canab what is it? Canab a dial up? Cannab a dial.
Cannabadiol sounds like cannab a canab a uh you like it or not? Um you're feeling anything. I'm not I'm not feeling anything. Um I'm thumped down. It's uh it doesn't make the tea taste any better.
Like adding bergamot to tea makes delicious earl gray. Adding cannabin whatever oil to uh to the tea makes it taste like muddy something. But it's a functional thing. It's a functional thing. I'm feeling a function from this tea.
Yeah, but you you're not supposed to. Anyway, listen. Nastasi tells me that we're gonna be on hiatus for a month because we're going on hiatus for a month while they sit, and when we come back from the hiatus, the new website will be up and running and you can live tweet us now. So let me try to rip through a couple questions like in the st like in instantaneous fashion. Zach from Pittsburgh writes in, how are you doing?
Pittsburgh is the place to go if you like races, huh? It comes from an earlier thing because someone said that to me. I doubt it is much different than any other city. There are good people here and bad. Our food scene is getting a lot better.
It is pretty nice. Check it out sometime. I'd like to. Food questions. Why can't restaurants handle fresh-cut French fries?
So many places like to talk up their fries, but then you get them and they look great, but in reality, they're undercooked, floppy, waxy, and bad. A good French fry shouldn't be so hard to pull off, especially when it's probably your most served food item. To me, it is a sign they just don't care about quality. Well, that's right. Uh it actually is more difficult than most people are willing to take on to make a good French fry.
It's not diff, it's not difficult in the sense that you don't need to have a PhD to do it, and you don't need to be uh, you know, a rocket scientist, but you do need to do more steps than most people want to do to make a good French fry, even if you don't use the enzymes or any of my other stuff, requires at least two uh at least uh one boil step, at least a dry step, and a single fry, and then probably a free step and then a fry. So if you're not willing to do all that crap, like with a soak beforehand, you know, you're some sort of soak, whether or not you use the enzyme or not. So like you're talking about a several hour prep and it do it. So most people are like, I'm gonna make a high quality French fry. See, here's the thing.
Here's the thing. Orida, right, or whoever you're buying your French fries from when you're buying Cisco, whatever it is, like, yeah, yeah, most of the stuff they make is direct compared to what could be made at home, but they have a lot of research time and decades of French fry under their belts, right? And also frying French fries from frozen turns out to be a good way to get good uh crust texture. So I often, depending, especially if I can't do my enzyme treatment, I will freeze my fries because for a quality reason, right? So you're going up against, it's like trying to make ketchup.
Like Heinz does a good job. You know what I mean? So you in order to do a better job, you have to actually put in more work than you think. And most people who make their own French fries simply don't know how to do it or they don't care. You know what I mean?
Okay, we have one more I want to uh uh get in before we go. Uh let's see one more hold second uh okay you ready for this this is a complicated one uh we have uh call by the way the best uh Twitter uh thing a Jews boosh a ju Instagram a j Instagram a Jews boosh he's or uh I guess he's orthodox David Statman he's orthodox so anyway he wants to use the Sears all on a Sabbath right so uh here's the thing he's like you're allowed to transfer a flame but you're not allowed to make a flame so the Burnsomatic TS8000 that we use you press the button click click click click right and it causes the frame and it's a flame and so he's saying the button's the problem right and then but transferring the flames okay so he wants to get a different torch and uh and pass uh basically just turn the gas on and pass the the flame to the Sears all that way. My feeling is uh David now I'm no rabbi but my feeling is just saying no rabber are you sure? Pretty sure but my feeling is that uh you are not allowed to turn the valve on. Can anyone do that Jack like while we're while we're signing out can you do a quick uh search on whether or not you're allowed to open and close valves on the Sabbath?
Yes. Yeah. I don't believe you're allowed to open and close valves on the Sabbath. It sounds dubious. Yes I don't because I would believe that that's the functional equivalent of a circuit, and you can't turn circuits off and on.
Anyways, so my feeling is you're gonna be shafted uh on on the valve. Now, what you could do, what we could do is you could hook um no don't do this, it's incredibly unsafe. Please don't do this. But you can hook up a timer to turn on a torch at a specific time, uh, including the piezo ignition, and as long as you set it up, right, at the right time, you can do another option is that you could find you need to go read Alan Dundas's book, uh, The Sabbath Elevator. Okay, there's a whole book on the Sabbath elevator by a guy named Alan Dundas, who, interestingly, found uh interestingly found out only about things like the Sabbath elevator uh late in his life.
He's a folklore expert, even though he's actually uh he's he's Jewish, but he just didn't know much about it, I guess. I don't know why he's not not doing the research. And uh he uh did a bunch of uh stuff on when it is okay to use uh you know the uh the uh Sabbath goy, right? Yeah. So for instance, in the elevator, like technically, you know, I can push the button for you because I'm a goy, although you gotta make sure that I'm not Jewish, because if I'm Jewish but not practicing, like that's not cool.
But you're not technically supposed to be like, hey dude, can you press that button? They just have to know to do it, right? So you have to pre-hire the goy to show up. Invite a goy to dinner on Sabbath. This is my plan.
Invite a goy to dinner on Sabbath and tell them, like, you know, when you get here, uh when you get here, it might be nice, like when I lift my hand in the air, if you were to take my TS8000, ignite it, and depress the button that keeps it on. And then they could do that, and then you could sear with it, and then you'd be like, and then they would know that when you put it down, you'd be like, and when I put the thing down, it might be nice if it didn't stay on and burn my house down. You know what I mean? Yeah, Sears Alkoi. Sears all goy.
No valves. No valves. See? You're gonna have to go with the Sears all goy. Yeah.
Sears all goy. We'll come back in one month, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts on the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage Underscore Radio.
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