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Hello, and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking It's just coming to you live every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 or one-ish on uh the Heritage Radio Network from Ruby's Pizzeria in Where's Roberta's Pizzeria Anastasia? Bushwick. Bushwick Where? Brooklyn.
Where? Brooklyn. Brooklyn! Morning, Nastasia. Good morning.
How are you doing? It's not morning. Somewhere it is. Also, we've been speaking since like 745. Yeah, but do people who are listening to this know that?
No, they're listening to it at like midnight, somewhere in the somewhere else. They don't know what you've been doing. They don't know your life. This is a con constant radio mistake you make. I feel like they like hearing about our life.
Yes, but with context. You would want to talk about the centerfuge. Imagine this. Imagine this. Yeah, we could bring it up that way.
Oh my god, can you believe what happened earlier? Oh, and that's all we say. No, because when I say that, then you're prompted to say, well, we've been up since that early because we've been talking about the centrifuge, which you should all know in like how do you how do you pronounce uh the way your your man Trump says it? I don't know. Chiana on the phone with China.
Yeah, in fact, that is true. Uh we did a after work their time before our work. See that when you're when you're when you're building something that's 12 hours time zone away, you have to kind of arrange your calls either like early in the morning or like late at night. There's no I guess that's not true. They could arrange it so it's early in the morning or late at night for them.
Yeah. Instead, we organize it so it's either early in the morning or late at the end. We like it better late at night. Anyway, this is uh again, people don't care. But we are working on the centrifuge.
I had a tweet in earlier asking for updates, etc. etc. The updates are that uh we look, we've had a working prototype uh for some months now, but we're not going to officially release anything until or give a date until we are sure that we have the future production kinks pretty ironed out. Right, Nastasia? But we are we're still planning on doing a pre-order.
It's still gonna be under a thousand dollars. You will get a d uh pre-order discount, that's still our plan. And we hope to have it on pre-order somewhere between three and five months before the actual delivery date. And we might have a tiered uh early bird system where the early early birds get it for less than the later early birds, etc. etc.
Right? Isn't that our current plan? Okay. Or something like this. Something similar to that.
We're not committing to early bird, definitely. Yeah, whether there's levels of early bird, we don't know. But the issue is we're gonna go on uh pre-sales and you're gonna get a discount because you're buying it before it comes out, and what that's gonna do is there's a substantial amount of tooling that we need to make to get it made, and we don't have the cash to front it, so the pre-orders are basically gonna go towards the tooling to get it produced. As for the specs, the specs are going to be that it is um it's gonna hold uh 500 milliliters uh at a time uh of liquid or oil or whatever, but it's gonna have the ability with a built-in pump to pump liquid through the rotor such that you can do more than 500 milliliters at a time. So the most I've ever done.
And it depends on the solids content, etc. etc. But the most I've ever done in one shot is five gallons. Uh but obviously that has you know not that many solids in it. I did five gallons of uh cider, I filtered five gallons of cider with it.
Anyway, we're pretty excited about it. The whole thing is gonna be smaller, uh well, it's about a little bit bigger than a queas art, wouldn't you say, Mastasia? Food processor, yeah. Yeah, a little bit bigger than a Quisinard food processor, much smaller than like a kitchen aid mixer, right? Easily fits under counter, uh, easy to lift around, move around, etc.
etc. You buy them like potato chips, you're not even gonna want one, you're gonna want two, you're gonna want three. Am I right, Mistacia? Okay, our goal is to put in anybody. They ask us, my partners, they ask us, how do you know how many people are gonna buy it?
I said, Well, this is how many modernist cuisines sold. Well, we had the number a while ago, but I don't know where it is now. And we figure if someone's willing to shell out five hundred dollars for a book, a lot of these people don't already have the centrifuge. They're gonna be willing to shell out less than, less than. We don't know what the final number is gonna be, but less than a thousand bucks, hopefully as low as we can go, right?
And so we're gonna price it as low as it can. But uh less than a thousand bucks to be able to do some of those tricks. And we can do most of the tricks uh that you can do for modernist cuisine. We've tested pea butter, for instance, all these kinds of things. The recipes are different because I'll go more into depth later, but uh I have to rewrite some of my recipes to get them to work in a smaller centrifuge.
But that's part of the work that I've been doing is uh figuring it out. And if anyone really cares, they can ask me to do a an ABC's centrifugation on air later in terms of the actual uh science and math behind it, but I don't think that many people care. No, but I never really talked about uh I mean there's a there's a there's a number of factors in a centrifuge. We run into the same problems that people run into with uh with uh things like induction burners, right? They compare watts of an induction burner with BTUs in a gas stove, and nobody really knows how to compare them.
So comparing, for instance, something that acts more like a fixed-angle centrifuge versus swinging bucket. The two main kinds of centrifuge that people deal are called fixed angle. Obviously, what that means is that they the liquids are held at a fixed angle in the rotor uh uh as it spins, and the other kind is called swinging bucket, where the the products are in buckets that, as you might guess, swing out when you open it, uh, when you turn it on, rather, and that's and that's how they work. Uh they have the two different kinds of rotors have different characteristics, primarily based on uh the fact that having an angle helps with certain kinds of uh pelleting, i.e. getting solids to deposit and stay solid at the bottom of a rotor.
And also fixed angle rotors definitely uh uh usually the uh cloudy bits have a shorter distance to travel before they hit the bottom of the tube. So fixed angle rotors act differently from swinging bucket rotors, but usually swinging bucket rotors have a much larger capacity than a fixed angle rotor, albeit at a slower RPM. So this kind of this centrifuge kind of uh tries to bridge the gap between those two, so it works uh it works at a considerably lower G force than the uh than the equivalent swinging bucket would. Also uh, you know, the the centrifuge, like how well something a centrifuge separates solids out is based on uh uh a variety of factors that are um inherent in the product itself. So the the viscosity, which we work on with uh uh like enzymes like Pecan X Ultra SPL, but also out in the speed of the rotor, which is something I can't change too much.
Uh but the the other and the diameter obviously they work in tandem because that's where the force comes from. But the the the big one, the important one that you get to manipulate is particle size. So the um the the speed at which you set the sediment stuff out goes linearly as the force is increased. It goes uh linearly as the viscosity decreases, but it goes uh by uh by the square of the particle size. So you what you really want it, and also the density difference between the solids and the and and the liquids.
But so so a lot of my recipes to get the smaller centrifuge to work like a big guy, it has to do with increasing the particle size. So I already went through and went through it. If anyone didn't understand that, which I'm sure is 100% of people because I wasn't very clear, then you can ask me to explain it later at a later date. Be like, what did that guy say about particle size? Like that the truth of the matter is is that a lot of the recipes that I use in uh liquid intelligence for things like lime juice to centrifuge lime juice out.
Uh lime juice is more difficult to centrifuge than other things because the enzymes don't fully break everything down because of the extreme acidity in lime juice. And the way that I make that work in a centrifuge, regular, you know, the the bench top three-liter centrifuge that I use at the bar, is uh wine finding agents. And what those wine finding agents do is they is they make the particles agglomerate together, they become bigger. As those particles become bigger, it becomes, as I said, uh, you know, by the square, easier to filter them out or smash them to the bottom of the uh centrifuge buckets. And so uh I do that trick with this centrifuge, and I can centrifuge basically anything so far.
They'll you know, a few things aren't as good as the big guy, but pretty much the results have been good, right, Stuzz? Yeah. It's just a matter of making sure they're consistent so that when it shows up at your house or at your bar, you are safe and happy, right? Those are the two main things we want you to be in that order. Safe, happy.
Yeah? Mm-hmm. Anyways. So we'll give you updates as as we know them. But like if it doesn't go on, we mean look, we're still hoping to deliver it this calendar, if not early next calendar, but I don't want to promise anything, but if we don't pre-order by the end of this year, I think we're in some serious trouble anyway.
So expect that to happen. Right? Mm-hmm. Is your sister, by the way, still on dunk meals or no? Did she do any?
I haven't asked her. But she said she was gonna keep on teaching on. Every other week she'll call it. Every other week we call in, so we didn't frighten her away. Did you explain to her that I I realized that she didn't write the dunk meals and therefore she shouldn't feel bad about me insulting the dump meals?
Yes. We had a caller, we had a uh uh a question in about the dump meals. Maybe I'll hit that one first, even though we're we're way behind. Oh, uh another thing. Remind me after you come out of break, mozzarella.
All right. You cook anything interesting by the way over the week? No. No? Did what did you do this?
Oh, you went to a wedding. How was the food at the wedding? Good. Come on, really? Really good.
Good for a wedding or good? Just because they had like a whole pig and a raw bar, they went all out. Oh, how's the whole pig? Good. Good.
I'm trying to look at you. See, I see what I'm doing for you people is I'm reading Nastasia's face, and I actually saw that she enjoyed it. How was the skin? Was it chewy or crunchy? Crunchy.
Really? Mm-hmm. I love a crunchy skin. I love a crunchy skin. How big was the pig?
Not like that big. Oh, how many people did wedding? Three? Who is she doing? No, that was just the appetizer hour.
Oh, oh. She she's showing a pig that's like maybe two feet long. And anyone there who's cooked a pig knows that until the pigs get like longer than that, it's all like bones anyway. There's a few skinny little mothers that will, you know, pigs, baby pigs, and that there's not a lot of meat on them, right? Right.
Good news is is that they're fairly uh I I don't think the little guys dry out as easily, right? So it wasn't as dry? No. A lot of fat coming out of the skin. Did you meet the ear?
No. Who who at the wedding? There's always one. Who at the wedding. Nobody.
Come on. Dave, it was like one part of like sixteen pieces at a happy at the cocktail. There was no one like me there who walked up, ripped off the ear and started eating. No. Yeah, you know what?
I've said this before, Nastasia. You better get yourself some new friends. I know. You need new friends. Anyway, let me find this.
Uh let me find this thing we had. Judy from Malden writes in this is regarding dunk meals. Couldn't help but pause to jot down a note while listening to you shout down dunk meals. It is true. I got mighty angry over the uh over the dump meals.
I did. Uh you don't have to trust my opinion though, since I don't mind wraps. Ooh. She goes on to say, yes, it's essentially edible cardboard, but I can't help myself if I don't want all the bulk of the bread. Here's key.
This is why I know I can trust her. I may be a garbage individual, but I'll call a rap a sandwich. Now you see, I have infinite respect for someone who comes out, because I say it to myself all the time. I may be a garbage individual, but props. Props.
Am I right? Mm-hmm. Major respect. I got a lot of love for Malden right now. Uh I know you guys feel that maybe America's Test Test Kitchen, which is, you know, you know America's Test Kitchen affiliate, yeah.
Uh, can be a little tone-deaf at times, and it's true. But I've spent seven years reading cookbooks cover to cover and cooking mostly dishes that make sense when only one person is eating 98% of the time, uh, and you have no access to outdoor cooking. So those are the things. Cooking cooking for yourself a lot of the time, and no access to the outdoors. Okay?
Okay. So I've cooked my way through America's Test Kitchen Slow Cooker Cookbook, which I get you is their answer to dunk meals. And certainly not all the dishes are winners, but some dishes, like shredded barbecue chicken, that is literally chicken and a slightly slightly doctor uh uh but some dishes like a shredded barbecue chicken that's literally chicken and slightly doctored with uh uh barbecue sauce talk about a dump meal. Uh but in other words, like she's saying some a lot of them aren't winners. They a lot of them that she's saying, I guess, blow.
But uh I kind of really want to send you guys a copy because she says something interesting. Uh uh the mailing address, which we'll send Nastasi, you can send her the mailing address. Okay. Uh I'm sure uh Dave will do a look inside on Amazon. I didn't get a chance this morning because as I said, normally the time when I would be looking inside that for you to make comments.
Nastasi and I were talking to uh the factory in China. Uh anyway, um sure Dave will do a look inside, but here's uh another important uh paragraph. The first lesson was that most slow cooker recipes are mediocre at best. Best because most of the time one cannot simply dump a bunch of ingredients into a slow cooker and walk away. True.
Obviously. That's why I was yelling at your sister about not browning the meat beforehand, because that's garbage. Uh, one needs to develop flavor using a host of mostly new and interesting techniques that are contained in the book. So apparently America's test kitchen has a bunch of new techniques that allow you to just dump a bunch of crap into the slow cooker and and uh get a good result. Um microwave spices first and aromatics, tomato paste, etc.
etc. Uh par cooking hearty vegetables in a microwave, blah, blah, blah. Uh so anyway, so we'll take a look at it. Um and uh, you know, and it says obviously soy sauce and tomato paste were secret weapons for building flavor, as I yelled at your sister for the teriyaki sauce. But we'll try it.
We'll try it. Uh so if you send us that, uh Judy, we'll take a look at it. Right? Yeah, I like a response. And next week, we will have uh Nastasia's sister, the correspondent, coming in with her dunk meal.
No, she's gonna call in again. That's what I meant, calling, calling with her dump meal. And hopefully, Nastasi, you can warn her a little bit beforehand. I think she knows now. Like that I'm gonna have some violent reactions towards some of the stuff.
I know last week we covered the uh Shy's question on uh Burmese tofu, right? The chickpea polenta? I don't thought we got to nothing. I thought we covered it. Uh okay.
Uh I wanted to call uh remember I wanted to call Francis Lamb, but I couldn't get in touch with him because he was. We talked about it, right? I think that was when I was driving. Yeah, you talked about it. So anyway, so if Shy, if I didn't get to your question on the uh on the uh Burmese tofu, which is essentially not tofu, it's essentially a chickpea polenta, right?
And uh again, I've never tried it, but there's also Italian variants of chickpea uh polenta, it's called Pinella. Uh I haven't tried those either either, but uh I'm sure it works. But it's definitely not a tofu style thing. It's much more like a polenta, but it sounds delicious. I've never had it.
Uh you also had a question on um using molds that I'm not sure to to make tofu ripen like cheese. And uh usually the cheeses that are uh the molds that are used for uh fermented tofus aren't classic Western cheese molds, but they have run tests uh with like penicillin rogue for T, but they've uh bolstered the problem is that a lot of those flavors um in cheeses are uh fat breakdown products. Uh so in general they have to dope the tofu with fats first, and sometimes what they do with milk solids as well, which kind of defeats the purpose. But they'll dope the tofu with fat such that um the molds can uh make similar uh fat uh oxy f fat breakdown um you know, light paste style flavors that you would get from cheese. But it has been tested, I think, in the 70s, although I don't know anyone that does uh commercial stuff.
Uh shirtleaf, uh, in his uh and uh his his wife who I can never pronounce her name, they have all the soy books, and if you look online, they have an exhaustive uh search of the literature bibliography on um cheese is uh a tofu uh inoculated with different uh molds. So I go check on that. And and uh Shy, if I didn't get to your actual question uh accurately, just send back again. I know it's taken forever. I feel bad about it.
I feel bad about it, right, Nastasia? I mean, we've had a bunch of weeks where we've had a bunch of crap going on, right? Chris, did I get to Chris's Gravlocks question? I don't think so. Okay.
Uh called in a long time ago. I have made Gravlocks, secured uh Scandinavian salmon a few times before, but have now been asked to make it for my sister's wedding, which hopefully didn't already happen. You know, otherwise we're host. Uh I'm concerned that I'm producing something that is safe to eat and would like to know about the principles which make it safe to eat. The procedure for curing fish is to prepare a mixture of salt, sugar, black pepper, and dill.
Sources vary quite a bit in the ratio of these ingredients and also in the ratio of curing mixture to the massive fish being cured. Spread it over uh longitudinally sliced salmon fillets with the skin on. Place the two fillets together and wrap in cling film then cure in the fridge for about 48 hours, uh flipping every now and again, which by the way, I emailed Nils and that's pretty much his recipe. I have Nils' recipe, Nils Norn, uh uh here. I'll I'll give it to you before I continue.
Uh Nils uses 1.5 uh sugar to one salt. Uh if you use the kosher salt, blend it until it's fine, otherwise it doesn't melt properly. Uh Nils mixes a salt and sugar mixture with chopped dill and black pepper. Even though white pepper is more traditional, Nils hates white pepper because of the moldy taste. Hates, hates, hates it, hates.
Actually, I actually'm not a huge fan either. You like white pepper? Mm-hmm. Because it's moldy tasting, right? And do you care about seeing black pepper on your product?
No, to me it's a sign that there's black pepper there. I love black pepper. I hate white pepper. You know who loves white pepper? Wiley.
Wiley Dufrain. Loves white pepper. He's not a huge fan of black pepper. You know what I think he is? Wrong.
I think Trump would probably love white pepper. Whoa, I'm gonna tell Wiley you said that. You think Trump is a white pepper fan? That's not what I said. He said I think what?
He said he thinks. See, that's very Trumpy in yourself. You don't actually like I'm not ascribing to any opinion, but I've heard some people say Trump likes white pepper. I get all my information from the internet. Yeah, yeah.
Wow. Wow. So you're s and I I am I sensing some there's a there's a racial overtone to the to the pepper argument all of a sudden. I hadn't even never even never occurred to me. Although I guess it fits white being moldy.
Uh anyway, uh even though white pepper is more traditional. I debone, scale the skin, and leave the uh leave it on as the skin, and here's a key thing that Nils says as the skin is really good to sear after it's cured. When you remove it before you slice it, but it's cured, he likes the the seared, cured skin. I rub the mixture and put the flesh sides together. Don't weigh it down, just make sure to turn it after 24 hours, or less if it is a smaller salmon.
So anyway, so that's Nils's direct from Nils' uh mind. And Nils' Gravlock's pretty damn good. I mean, if I had to say, give me some Swedish crap, I would go to Nils and say, Nils, can you cook me some Swedish crap? Wouldn't you do that, Nastassi? Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I haven't seen Nils in a while. Hopefully I'll see him soon. Um I also understand that there might be some risk of contracting parasites. That you hate what's the worst word for parasite in your mind, Nastasia?
I mean, you don't mind the word parasite, you just hate all the things associated with it. Worm. Spoor. Mm-hmm, spore, like what else? Anything?
Cysts. Cysts. Uh parasites, which can be mitigated by using fish that have been frozen to below a certain temperature for an extended period of time. Probably not attainable in a home freezer. Actually, it is.
Whereas a lot of fish, especially farmed, which is a lot of what your salmon's gonna get unless you're getting the wild caught, uh, it's much better for them to freeze it properly at the source and ship it than to go through the the whole uh cold chain uh unfrozen. You know what I mean? Like a lot of all your sushi that you eat uh supposedly has been frozen to kill parasites, and so freezing is not what it once was. Like very high quality frozen fish is kind of the best that you can get for some of these bigger things unless you're catching it um you know right away, unless it's off of a day boat or something like that. But you're not you're not getting unless you live in Alaska or in uh Washington, you're not getting salmon anywhere close to its source.
You know what I'm saying? So anyway, so I would just buy stuff that's frozen ahead of time uh so that you don't have to uh worry about it. I would like to prepare and slice this in advance. How far in advance can I prepare it? And will slicing in advance increase the re risk that somebody might get sick from the fish.
Yeah, of course. Anytime that you're taking something that's a whole muscle and cutting it, you are introducing the possibility of uh adding bacteria. So if you get like any kind of contamination on it, uh listeria or whatever, you're increasing the surface area on on which it can grow. And you know, the the knife, if it's not fully sanitized, I mean, are you gonna get someone sick? Like maybe not, but you know, um yeah, you definitely increase the increase the risk.
Now, if you I don't know if if you want to if cheat it and you can add something that will kill bacteria like uh nitrites or something like this, but I don't really I don't know a lot about um cured uh fish safety, but definitely you're increasing the risk. It's still a small risk, right? Anyway, uh also do you have any values for the ratio of curing mixture to fish and the composition of the mixture? Anyway, I gave you nils and stuff on that, but uh not sure how to answer on the safety. Uh look, I would slice it, I would slice it um pretty soon thereafter and keep it really cold, you know, keep everything really cold, like you know, sanitize your knife, it's probably not gonna be a problem.
But yeah, anytime you're doing something like that, you're increasing risks. And maybe someone in the chat room has something to say on that. Um, should we take a you want to take a break? Come back with more cooking issues? Oh, let's take a break and come back with some more cooking issues.
Hi, this is Peter Kim, the executive director of Mofad, the Museum of Food and Drink. We're a nonprofit founded by Dave Arnold, the host of Cooking Issues here on the Heritage Radio Network. And we want to take people on a learning adventure through the world of food. We just opened Mofad Lab, our gallery space at 62 Bayard Street in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, where we are currently showing flavor, making it and faking it. Flavor features some very cool sensory interaction.
Flavor tablets deliver tastings of vanilla and umami. And the Willy Wonka inspired smell synth lets you encompose over half a million different flavors. So come on by and visit Mofad Lab. We're open five days a week, and tickets are five dollars for kids and ten dollars for adults. Learn more about the Museum of Food and Drink at Mofad.org.
Peter Kim, huh? Peter Kim. Peter Kim. You know that the entire time he was talking about uh talking about us on cooking issues, that he was uh like making snide faces. He was just like you know what I mean?
I can see his face. I could see his face of disgust as he mentioned cooking issues. I could just feel it. That's so Peter. Yeah, I know.
So Peter. We gotta get his butt back in here so we can. I asked him to come today. And it was too busy, me, me, me, me, me, me. Yeah.
Working on the uh on the next exhibition that we're gonna do. Which they're gonna do a Kickstarter later on uh to make money for the next exhibition. Don't worry, Nastasi made her Kickstarter face. You're not involved. That's all right.
Nastasia hates Kickstarters, which we can get. If anyone ever wants Nastasia to get to if you want Nastasia to rant, like get her started on running. Unless I hate you, then I'll tell you that they're a good idea, which I did once. Someone asks you, should you do one? You're like, Yeah.
Yeah. It's so fun. Sometimes look, sometimes it's necessary. And first of all, there are some people who enjoy interacting with people. For them, maybe it'll be good.
For you, living nightmare. Some people may be okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Also, if you were gonna do a Kickstarter and you didn't actually have a product you needed to deliver, if it was not actually a product, yeah. If it's a nonprofit, you know I think it's better. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's like whatever. Anyway, Rachel from Hong Kong wrote in. Hey, uh, Dave, Nastasia, and David in the booth.
And any other special guests. No, no other, no special guests today because Peter apparently doesn't think that we're we're worthy. Right. We're worthy. Not even uh not even the chance to talk about MoFad and a free lunch is enough to entice him.
Entice him in. Uh a little bit late to the game and only found out about your podcast this January. Spent the last six months powering through the entire backlog. Yes, I'm one of those nut jobs. Wow.
You know, I I feel for anyone that you're friends with. You know what I mean? That's like a lot of screaming and ranting to wade your way through. Yeah. Uh bit gutted that I didn't quite make it uh to wish Jackie Molecules Bonvayor Von Voyage, but now I'm taking comfort that we still get to hear him on the Heritage Radio Outro for now.
We gotta get Jack to record some more outros. Someone just beat down the back wall. You hear that? Somebody beat almost punched through the back wall, like Kool-Aid style. Did you call out for Kool-Aid?
Oh, yeah. Remember that? Oh! Whoa, man. David, you are quick on the button today.
That is some strong Kool-Aid oh yeah noise. I have my coffee. Yeah, sweet. What kind of coffee do you like? Black.
But like, do you are you espresso man or an American cup of coffee man? Um, well, in summertime I do cold brew. Um I like Americanos. I don't like it. I don't like I don't like milk really.
I like milk, but not in my coffee. Yeah, agreed. I like milk formed into cheese. Oh, which I was supposed to talk about later. Let's get to the question.
Oh, nice segue. Yeah, but I gotta finish. I gotta finish Rachel. So I know how you feel about vacuum sealing chicken uh for low temp cooks, but texture aside, because my theory is that especially the higher the vacuum, if it's cooked in a vacuum bag, it affects the texture of the chicken, makes it spongy, and gives it that uh you're more apt to have that feeling. I'll describe it this way that when you bite into it, it's excessively juicy at the beginning, but then turns to fibrous pulp as you chew.
You know what I'm talking about in Stasia? You felt it. Yeah, that's my feeling. Uh but texture aside, assuming I've pulled a hard vacuum on a bag of chicken breasts and cooked it through to pasteurization time and temp, how long uh will the cooked chicken uh then keep in sealed bags refrigerated before spoilage occurs? Uh I tend to batch cook, and I've had bags keep uh almost two weeks uh smelling and tasting okay uh so far.
But recently I had a batch smell off after six days. I reckon it's an anomaly. Uh might have effed up the seal on that batch. Well, the question is if you effed up the seal on that batch, the one that smelled off, like did you get uh did the bags blow? In other words, did they inflate?
So a lot of times uh if something's gone wrong, there's two things that can happen. You can just see that you have a loss of seal. Uh this is especially, I forget to say, did you bone them? Did you bone them? I can't I can't see.
So if if you if you don't, let's say you let's say you have chicken breasts. Now, this is before I get to your safety question. Let's say you have chicken breasts and the bone, there's still a bone attached to them. Now, if you suck a very, very hard vacuum, like a like vac like like wait till the machine gets down to its full vacuum and then allow it to suck for an additional 30 to 40 seconds, right? You'll evacuate most of the air, most of the air out of the bones.
Uh, and then you'll, you know, you'll be able to get a good seal and you'll be able to uh have the bag stay tight. However, if let's say that chicken was a little bit warmer than the rest of the chicken, then it's never going to get down to the super low vacuum. You might not pull all the air out of the bones. And in that case, when you cook, air will seep out of the bones because bird bones are hollow, and you'll get a puffed bag, right? So that's one way you can get a puffed bag on a chicken.
Uh but let's assume that didn't happen, right? You can sometimes you can get a pinhole leak, right? And usually if you look at it really closely, you'll see there's a little fold in the bag seal where it didn't seal right, or the edge of the bag got too close to the edge of the bar, and sometimes you can get a little pinch or a crimp mark in the in where the sealer is towards the edge of the bags, and you'll notice you don't have a good seal, or there'll be like a little piece of herb or something that cut across one of the bag ceiling points, and you can see. And there you'll see you'll get some leakage in, and what you'll have is a not tight bag. That usually won't give you a blown bag.
A blown bag happens when there's bacterial growth in the bag, and it literally inflates from uh gas that's being produced. And if you get a blown bag on anything that you weren't specifically trying to get a blown bag on, so for instance, like if you're making sauerkraut, you're trying to grow lactic acid bacteria in an anaerobic environment. In that case, if the bag doesn't blow, it's not working properly, right? So uh anytime you get a blown bag, something terribly um wrong uh has happened. Anyway, uh I reckon it's an anomaly.
I might have messed up the seal on that batch, but I'm also curious as to what makes stuff go bad in the absence of air and any pathogens since it's been pasteurized. For reference, I tend to cook my chicken bla uh breasts in flattish 200 gram uh bags, I guess portion of 200 grams, at 62 degrees Celsius for about two to three hours. Uh, thanks in advance and for all your uh time doing the show every week. It's been an awesome source of information. I'm not entirely sure what I'm gonna listen to now that I've wiped out the bat law uh backlog.
Cheers, Rachel from Hong Kong. All right. So there's there's a lot of stuff uh uh going on here. First of all, as regards the shelf life, I'll read this is from the the um the Minnesota, this is Minnesota's food code. I don't know why Minnesota, that's the first people that came online when I when I popped it up, right?
So it's the Minnesota food code requires the shelf life under refrigeration of products that are vacuum packaged in a retail store, right? So that would be like what use so it's like be limited to 14 days. However, food manufacturing uh places that are inspected by USDA or state get 30 days or longer. And the reason is is because they don't trust retail operations to have the levels of safety and quality on the products as they go as they go into the bag, and they don't trust the uh pasteurization procedures and the cold chain holding ability of a retail outlet to guarantee safety for 30 days or longer. But if everything is done right, right, then they're like, oh yeah, 30 days, no problem.
So you can keep stuff that long as long as you're cooking stuff properly and maintaining it. Now, as for bags that appear to have been pasteurized and still uh still blow off and go bad. Now, you're quite right, most spoilage bacteria, especially things that stink and smell bad, do not grow in uh anaerobic environments, i.e., they will not grow in a vacuum. And in fact, that is why uh people are worried about the safety of vacuum cooked products because typically uh when things spoil uh in an aerobic environment, i.e., with oxygen, when they spoil in an aerobic environment, they smell terrible. And so you can use sliminess, like it grows slime, you can take smell, and all these things indicate that bacteria have been growing on it and that it's no longer good nor safe to eat.
The problem is is that in a vacuum, that's not the case. So in a vacuum, you can get pathogens that grow. Uh they're particularly worried about things like botulism, listeria, uh, perfingids, these sorts of things, uh, that can grow in the absence of producing a smell or sliminess, and sometimes in the absence of producing a gas that would indicate that there has been growth at all. And that's why people are worried about the safety of vacuum-packed foods in general. Now, when things go wrong in a bag, usually it's due to improper pasteurization.
And so uh that can happen, and and then you can get the growth if you don't kill all the vegetative cells, typically in a pasteurizing procedure, and 62 degrees Celsius for two to three hours in something that is fairly flat is more than enough to properly pasteurize um a chicken breast. More than enough. Um typically, right, if you get blow off in the bag, you're you're getting something that can grow in an anaerobic environment that's not spore forming. So we're talking about uh lactic acid bacteria. Most of the time you're gonna kill lactic acid bacteria.
100% of the time, if you pasteurize it, you're gonna kill uh the lactic acid bacteria and they're not forming spores, so you shouldn't have that kind of a problem. Typically, when you do have that kind of a problem, I ascribe it usually either, as you say, to a leak where bacteria can get in, or to a situation where you have like two or three bags touching each other, and in fact the temperature on the inside of that bag didn't actually get up to where you think it should have fast enough. So sometimes that can incubate bacteria in the bag, in which case it probably tasted bad right when you took it out of the bath, or um it it hasn't killed everything and it can grow later, or you have like a knife jab, and some bacteria have survived on the inside of the meat that somehow got there, it didn't pasteurize all the way through because you had layer on layer on layer, and then uh it grew over time. The other thing is is that I I have this uh sneaking suspicion that in certain cases of this there are other things going on. And so if you go to this book called Principles of Modified Atmosphere and SUV product packaging, edited by Jeffrey Farber and Karen Dodds, if the pH inside of the bag, and so this has happened enough that it it warrants some um some thinking, at a pH greater than about 5.8, right, there are things that are like thermophilic and mesophilic that might be able to survive and can grow in uh anaerobic things.
For instance, uh, and this is just, you know, off the top of uh Wikipedia and this book's head, I haven't researched it. Uh Enterobacteria uh uh Broccothrix and Chevonella putrefactions, which is also known as alteromonas putrefactions, and they can cause stink and grow in an anaerobic environment and may not be killed unless you really make sure it's pasteurized right. But I have a sense that that's kind of what's what's happening. Um obviously if it smells bad, don't uh don't eat it, right? Does that make any damn sense?
Anyway. Gus wrote in, uh, hey, my name is Gus. I'm a college student in Kentucky majoring in biology and chemistry. Uh absolutely love how scientific and detailed you guys get on the show. Uh without my two years of biology and chemistry classes, I'm not sure I'd be able to understand half of what you guys are talking about, but that's what I love.
In my spare time, I love to make uh bean to bar chocolate. Nastasia hated making bean to bar chocolate. Do we make that? All the time, remember? We didn't just make the ketchup thing.
We made a couple of batches first of regular bean chocolate. Remember grinding all of the cacao nibs cacao in the uh champions and then all of that cocoa liquor mess everywhere? No. It was drowned out by the other nonsense we had to do. Yeah, you didn't hate that as much as you hated like all of the nut butters.
Yeah in in the sand thing. Yeah. Well, you said you're never gonna do that again. Never. Never.
In my spare time, I love to make bean to bar chocolate. I order the raw beans and then ferment, roast, winnow, grind, and finally conch them. I ground them by hand for a while in a mocha jete before recently upgrading to a countertop melanger. Uh I usually end up with some pretty delicious results, and I enjoy the process. However, I'm pretty blind as far as the science uh behind it all.
Like sugar and fat structure, tempering, blooming, etc., and would love to learn more. Do you know of any books or other literature that really dive deep into this? The nerdier the better. I haven't had much luck finding anything, so any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
Uh keep up the great work. Gus, okay. So back in the day when I used to order when I used to Xerox all of the technical books out of the uh science and business industry library in uh here in New York City. The classic chocolate work was by uh a fella named Minifee, and it was just known as Minifee Chocolate. It's very industrially oriented, and it's also it's been updated a couple of times, and it is, I think, still one of the industry standards, but it's a extremely expensive, like uh like 150, 200, and B is I think a little bit out of date.
However, I'm sure they have it in the line in your library at school for you to go look at. Um it's not what I what I recommend. Um the the kind of book that came out uh I don't know what it was 10, 15 years ago, that everyone started um buying, that it's it's a couple of things. It's blessedly short. You can do an Amazon look inside of, and it's only 30 bucks, is uh The Science of Chocolate by uh Stephen uh Beckett.
Uh there's a paperback, there's a hardcover, and uh one of them I forget is on on Amazon Prime for like 30 bucks, and it's decent. It's short and it's to the point, it gives you the science. It's still focused on um on bigger operations, not necessarily on on kind of what you're doing, but I would get that, and then in terms of the actual, and that'll give you some of the science, but in terms of the actual like putting your hands to recipes, I would go on any of the websites out there where people are doing their own kind of bean-to-bar stuff, like uh chocolate alchemy and stuff, which is who we use when we were originally getting the Santa. There's a lot of different mélangeurs out there. I would say uh, in addition to the Melanger, you'd be uh you'd be good if you went and got yourself a champion juicer.
That's still what I would use for the initial grind out of the um of the uh the you know the cook the cacao uh beans or nibs or whatever you're using to do it. But yeah, so I would get a hold of champion, but yeah, get the science of chocolate second edition um and let me know what you think. I think it's pretty good. I don't think there's anything better at that price point, that's for sure. Um I'm assuming that you don't have infinite money to spend since you're a college student majoring in biology.
Am I right so I'm assuming? All right. Uh Barry wrote in this kind of a hard question. I don't know what to answer. Maybe like take I wanted to get McGee on this, but you know, he's been in Spain, so I don't know.
Barry writes in rather than wait to see uh if there is a show, uh here's my question for the next show. How uh I guess it was a show a week where we didn't necessarily gonna have a show, I don't know. How does a chef create the taste sensation of individual flavors that meld into one? For example, if I make shrimp etuffe, it tastes like shrimp etuffe. But when um when a chef does it uh on the initial bite, uh, which when a chef does it, on the initial bite, one tastes the red pepper, then the celery, then the onion, followed by the tomato.
As one chews, each uh one of the clear individual flavors melds together uh to taste like a shrimp etuffe. Uh, how does this how does this work? And secondly, how does a chef create an initial spicy flavor that passes and is followed by a different lingering spicy flavor later? Well, huh? How do you create things that meld?
It's a complicated, that's a really complicated question. I don't really, it's in uh it's kind of hard. I've never really used kind of do those kinds of things, you know, kind of naturally. One thing you can do, uh, Barry, is um you include things that that bridge. So for instance, like if you need something to linger and you're gonna add some acidity, you want to and you need to draw, for instance, the front of the palate towards the back of the palate, and you know something's missing, you can add an acid, like something like lime that's gonna pull, and so like a lot of spicier cuisine you see, and I think it's not just because that's where it grows, you'll see lime in it instead of lemon.
And the reason is is that lime's gonna integrate across the flavor palette longer than um lemon will because the malic acid has a longer trail out. So like when you're tasting something, a lot of times when things integrate, it's either because you've put something in with too high of a high note, like a particular spice, that just hits one note too hard, and you need to bring the rest of the stuff up to kind of beat that note down, or a lot of times what happens is is you'll have um uh a drop down somewhere in the mid palate of your eating. I when I think about flavors, I tend to think about uh the time progression of what goes on in in in in something and then try to figure out kind of where things um drop out, and usually that's where you'll notice things don't meld well, like a lot of times in the in the middle of the palate, and that's where you know that's why we tend to add a bunch of salt, which rounds out all the flavor. That's why we tend to hit everything with acid at the end because it doesn't just brighten but it rounds everything out. But I don't really know how to answer your your question, other words.
I guess I need more thought on it. Need more thought about how to how to round it out. What do you think, Nastasia? Do you know what eggs at duvet is? Eggs in like in a duvet cover?
It's when you fart under the cover. What does that have to do with this? You just think about it? Welcome to my life. People, welcome to my life.
Trying to talk about how to make flavors meld together. She's like, you don't meld together parting under a cover. Etuffey. Going to New Orleans, by the way, for Tales of the Cocktail, speaking of uh at Tufay. Harass him down there, everybody.
I'll be there a blessedly short period of time. I'm going there from I'll be there a Thursday night and Friday night. I know your cell phone number circulates somewhere online. Please, please. I'm bringing the centrifuge with me, by the way.
So for those of you the Tales of the Cocktail, I'm gonna do a demo of it for the uh cat program, see get some feedback for some uh some bartenders. Nastasia, evil. You're just the evil person. You know what I'm saying? Yep.
You just like, you know, have to be mean to me for no no reason. Well, one time I put my away message when I went on vacation and said, if you want to contact Dave, it was for the people that we work with. I forgot that the radio show people email me. Yeah. And then your number was there.
Nastasia also put the like swipe credit card for the original seal, Sears all over. I don't know how that happened. And people are calling me, they're like, Who are you? Why did you charge my credit card? I'm like, what are you talking about?
I'm like, what are you talking about? They're like, you're a thief. And a lot. I'm like, what are you talking about? And then remember, like, people will be like that people would order a Sears all on uh Kickstarter, right?
Or Shopstarter. And then they would forget. And they didn't know what Booker and Dax was. You know what I mean? Why is it men?
Why are you going sexist on this? No, because it was usually like the wives of the men who bought why is this charge on my bill? Why does it mean like did you check with your husband? I checked you I said, Did you buy a gift for anyone? Right.
And she's like, no. And because I remember that one specifically in that chair. I was like, oh man. I was like, Nastasia, how the hell did they get my personal number to call about credit card stuff? So weird.
Yeah, they matched, I don't know. Yeah. And so, you know, to get back at Nastasia, like the time she sent me on Spirit Airlines next to uh, you know a dog. Next to well, a w a woman and her fake uh service dog. You know what I mean?
The uh I gave them her number. I was like, you need to call Nastasia. Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, Mark calls in. This is a burning man question.
I'm not gonna be able to answer this question right now. I gotta think on it. Okay, so go to Montserrat. No, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna talk about it, and then someone else will have a suggestion, I hope.
One big searing question. Searing question that's part of the joke here. Uh I'd like to serve a thousand creme brulees at this year's Burning Man Festival in the Nevada Desert. But what to serve these in? First of all, we gotta ask Jordana.
Jordan Rod. She's gonna come on the show in three weeks, I think. Won't it burning man? That'll be before Burning Man, because she's going to. Yeah, because she served some sort of cocktail at the Burning Man last year.
She didn't use limes. I don't want to get into it. I don't want to get into it. She came, we talked about how to do what we wanted to do. You insulted her, and then she And then she did something else entirely.
Which is fine. Just don't ask. You know what I mean? But anyway, but that's not my point. My point is is that is that uh Mark, let me ask you this.
Is the Burning Man crowd the creme brulee kind of crowd? That's the question. What do you think? I think no, but I don't know. Are you gonna be able to chill these creme brulee?
Anyway, whatever. Uh the creme brulee is sorted. Some investigation has led me to this product. Dr. uh Odeker or Oetker Creme Ert Ertker.
It's that German brand, they make the vanilla zucca as well. You know what I'm talking about, right? You see it, Doctor? Yeah. Uh creme brulee mix.
It's prefab, just need milk and cream. Uh foolproof and tastes okay, and it's cheap, which will come in handy since we're gonna prepare this in an RV with a very limited kitchen. Uh we also get to insult the French uh kitchen at large. Now, by the way, I looked at the ingredient list for that sucker, and it's uh starch and carrageenan and milk powder, so it should stay in the heat because the carrageenin should keep it set no matter what. It's not uh gelatin-based, so or anything like that, so the carrageenin um should work.
Um I can't work out how to make the ramekins, however. They must be edible since there's no waste at Burning Man, and we definitely don't want to bring pottery rammickens, although how burning man would that be to like literally like slipcast a thousand things, eat the creme brulee, just shatter it into the freaking desert, and it becomes part of the earth. Pot of the earth. Seems like it's very burning man, right? You know what I mean?
Like those little like freaking like you ever do Burning Man? Oh no. What if you had no family? Would you ever do Burning Man? Uh don't don't but don't people have to get naked?
I don't believe in naked. Oh no. I don't like heat except on your funeral, that's what you want to be. I don't like heat. I don't like heat.
I like it it. It gets cold at night, like super cold. I like that. I like cold at night. I like the desert.
Well, yeah, you yeah. I don't really like collaboration. You get to choose who you want to be with. I like to kind of like be left alone. You can do that too.
Then why go to Burning Man? Can I be left? Can't I just go camp there by myself? Mm-hmm. Not in Burning Man.
But you really want to be all alone in the desert? Not all alone. Yeah. So you can like choose who to speak to. Isn't it like large petroleum fires?
I I don't know. I don't know. I've never been. I've never been. Look, I look, uh uh, I've had plenty of friends who have gone and said it's life changing, although I'm not sure their life afterwards was better than their life beforehand.
You know what I'm saying? Like I've gone, I've known people who like it was life-changing in the sense that like they ended up breaking off their engagement and then like going to a downward spiral for five years. You know what I'm saying? I think it's different for everybody. Kind of like LSD, different for everybody?
Like some people they spiral off, and some people it like you know leads to enlightenment. It can go either way. What did Jordana say? She loved it. Like obviously she's gonna go again.
Is her uh boyfriend Daniel going? No. Did he go to first? You can't even walk up a rock without crying. Like Wow.
Wow. Nastasia insulting our friends on air. Alright. I can't work out how to make the ramekins. They must be edible since there's no waste at Burning Man and we don't want to bring pottery rammickins.
I'm thinking of a caramel or cornetto slash cookie ramekin uh alternative, but making these will be very labor intensive. And also they're gonna get soggy, right? They're gonna get soggy. Marmickins? A cookie ramekin.
First of all, think of all those freaking cookies. I think a super ball or move would be to slip cast a whole crap ton of these things. It's heavy though. Where is it coming from? No, do it in the Vada.
Then you have to bring a plaster mold? Yeah. I guess it would take a million years. And you wouldn't be able to fire them, so you'd get clay in your creme du lait. Right.
Although wouldn't it be hot enough to fire them? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. Thousands of. By the way, PS.
Although you could build a giant fire outside of your RV and be firing the clay mannequins. That is super baller. That is what you are supposed to be there for. That is so super ballers. Like slip casting in the desert is super easy.
Here's why, right? You got your you got your slip mix, right, which is like a liquid, and then it's just these plaster, these two plaster um uh things. So you pour it in to the to the ramekin. So you let's say you have this big piece of plaster that has the cup mold shaped in it. You ever done slip casting size?
No. So what you do is is you you pour it in, you fill up the entire cup mixture, right? And you let it sit. Depends on how thick you want it, but like like the ones I used to do, you only had them let out clear. Do you use the earth as the I don't know, it depends if they have clay there.
But you let it sit, the slip mix, you let it sit for like, you know, however long, like 30 minutes. The plaster absorbs the moisture from uh the slip mixture and forms a leathery um layer right next to the plaster. You then dump the rest of the slip out, and you have this thin, perfectly hollow. I used to make uh vases this way for art for an art sculpture. I was doing the uses.
And uh, and then you have this thing that you can then go fire, and then you do it again. You could do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. You could keep making them. And I made big, like uh like two and a half feet tall vases, and in the course of a couple of days, I made like 40 or 50 of them. So if you're making little ramekins in like in a like a master mold thing, you could make a crap ton of them.
It just seems super baller to like make a kiln out in the desert. Whatever, you're not gonna do it. Maybe you will. Maybe it'll be. It just seems like a super baller thing to do, or maybe get someone else to do that.
Or have your camp do it. Alright, but going back to a cookie, I think cookie's a pain in the butt. And also, in order for a cookie to work, it's gonna have to be so thick that you're gonna be hauling eight tons of cookie out there. You know what I'm saying? And they're gonna break.
What do you think about? I mean, you could do like a like a creme brulee tostada shell. No. That would hold anyway. You hate that idea?
Also, the problem is that how you get the creme brulee wants to be cold, right? Are you gonna chill it? But if you chill it in the ramekin that's edible, the ramekin that's edible is gonna get all nasty, right? It's gonna get all floppy and nasty because there's gonna be a liquid contact. You get me?
Mm-hmm. See the problem? Mm-hmm. Why does he want to do creme brule? Whatever.
Anyway, that's not the point. But the point is the carrageenin, like the ultimate would be if you could do if you could if you could set the the creme brulee in a tube. A tube! Who is that uh Alaska Senator? It's a series of tubes.
Remember that? That's how you describe the internet and uh set it in a tube and then slice it into discs and let them thaw in your ramekin. Then you could use almost anything, because it wouldn't need to be around that long before you served it. It wouldn't get soggy, right? But the issue is is that I don't know if the kerragen in they're using, I didn't have time to look it up, is gonna be freeze thaw stable, but you gotta run a test on that.
Um anyway. Oh, yeah, maybe unless we freeze the creme brulee and blocks, cut them up uh in portions and coat them. Yeah, but lots of work. By the way, I'll think on a little more. Uh they said best I could find were pre-frab waffle bowls.
Not quite it, but we'll do. That's kind of expensive. I'll think on some more. Maybe someone in the uh in the cooking issues land has uh some theories. One thing I'll say, remember, creme brulee is one of the few things I recommend using a naked torch on instead, especially for Burning Man, naked torch and not a Searsol, because it just is.
It's one of those things. But I'll I'll think on that, I'll think on it some more. I thought you didn't believe in naked. Uh I only if only for creme brulee do I believe in naked. Uh all right.
So uh all right, quick one. Daniel Royce saying, question about pressure cookers. Uh I'm not even gonna get the talk. I made mozzarella uh this week, and by the way, it's one of the do you ever have anything in your life, Nastasia, that like you've had such a traumatic experience that you won't ever do it again? Uh yeah, I like ravioling.
Yeah. So like 23 or 24 years ago, right? 23 years ago. I was like 22. And I was uh at my wife's apartment.
I was still in college or just gotten out of college. She was in, she was uh, you know, had her first job. There was no internet, and I wanted to make mozzarella. And I'll just say that it was a freaking catastrophe. Like a freaking catastrophe.
There was no place to look it up. I was just what I could gather from books on how it was done. I didn't know how to make curds, I was not a professional, and my wife for the past 23 years has made fun of my mozzarella attempt 23 years ago so much that I have never tried it again, ever, until last night. And I have to say, success. But we'll talk more about it later.
But yeah, she likes she was like, she was like, you should leave that kind of stuff to the professionals. This was, you know, obviously I wasn't a food professional at the time. But you know what? Like this weekend, I was like, I'm tomatoes are gonna grow. Where my tomatoes are growing, there's no good mozzarella.
I need to learn how to make mozzarella again. And plus, you know what? Damn it, I am a professional now. You have that cheese shop near you. In New York.
No, in Connecticut. Cheese shop. Do they make mozzarella? Yeah. Is it good?
Yeah, we yeah. The mozzarella's good. Got a minute. I'll look it up. Okay.
A minute. Daniel, I'm gonna get your question in a minute. Question about pressure cookers. A good hundred episodes ago, a caller asked about what pressure cookers you would recommend he buy and and why. I'm having a hell of a time finding the episode.
Thought you might answer it again. What stovetop pressure cooker would you recommend, ignoring price? I think you have mentioned the Coon Recon model in the past. That's the only one I like that I've used myself personally. How does that model compare to the Fissler Vitaquiq?
I hate the word Vitaquick because it implies that you're keeping vitamins inside in a pressure cooker, which is ho ho hocum. But uh it looks like a really good unit. The fissler vitaquick uh looks like the Coon Recon in that it has a pressure uh gauge that goes up and down and so allows you to um gauge the pressure without it venting. And as you might know, in my tests I've noticed that venting pressure cookers uh tend to make stocks that don't uh taste as good. That's been my experience backed up by many, many trials.
Uh so anyway, so the fissler vitaquik looks good. I don't have any personal experience with it. Uh America's Test Question rates the fistler quite a bit higher than the Coon Recon model. Again, I don't know, I've never used uh the fistler. Uh, are their assessments valid in your opinion.
I also can't get a hold of their. Someone can send me their stuff. I don't have their password to their website. They claim the Coon Recon model had the most evaporative loss out of all the models they've tested. If that's the case and they're not testing the Kun Recon right, the Kun Recon, if you overshoot the pressure uh gauge, you'll get evaporative loss because it's telling you to turn down.
But my Coon Recon, when it's operating properly, is dead silent and there's no uh there's no venting out of it. Uh so you say, have you found this to be true? No. I also I looked up their thing. Uh I uh I looked up their uh test.
They recommend the Fagor, and I hate, I don't know, I hate it. I didn't like that the Fagor. And they made a classic error. I'm gonna leave you with this, and we can talk more about it next time if you want more questions. They made a classic error that people with the Fagor pressure cooker make.
The Fagor pressure cooker, when you close the lid and you turn on the heat and it starts building pressure, a little button goes poop and indicates that there is pressure in the unit. It does not indicate that you have reached your operating pressure. So if you use the Fagor model and think that that little yellow dot is an indication that you have reached 15 PSI on the inside of your pressure cooker, you are mistaken. The only way you can figure out whether you've actually reached that pressure is whether or not it's venting steam through the pressure regulator that's set to that pressure, right? Because the button doesn't know whether you're at 5 PSI or 15 PSI or what.
It just knows that it's sealed and that you started building pressure. Claha sick mistake. Anyway, we can talk more about it next time on cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network.
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