This episode is brought to you by Jewel, the emergent circulator for Sous V by Chef Steps. Order now at Chefsteps.com/slash J-O-U-L-E. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. We're a member supported food radio network, broadcasting over 35 weekly shows live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. Join our hosts as they lead you through the world of craft brewing, behind the scenes of the restaurant industry, inside the battle over school food, and beyond.
Find us at heritage radio network.org. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Itro is coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like, you know, around 12 or so to about one o'clock. Uh uh from Roberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn. Oh, got uh as usual, David in the booth.
We do not have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, because she she might be in the middle of the air right now over the Atlantic Ocean, or maybe somewhere over Europe. She was in Rome for her birthday. I think either today or tomorrow or something like that. So uh in her stead, we have uh Don Lee, the I decided maybe I should stop calling you since like we work together a lot. Maybe I should stop calling you evil in public.
And I'm just gonna go to Puppet Master. It could be evil, you know. What do you prefer? Evil cocktail overlord or pub cocktail public. The true evil is convincing you that it's not evil.
Right. That's what now, when you were in, let's say you're in Star Wars. Okay, the Emperor is By the way, call in your questions to 7184972128. That's 718 4972128. Do you really think that like Luke and or Anakin didn't think that that stuff was evil what the Emperor said?
That's the thing, it doesn't work about that movie. When he's like, you know, strike me down. I mean, obviously you're not supposed to. I mean, he's been he's been treated the entire time, you know, told not to do that. Luke's from likes these this backwaters, you know, and so is Anakin.
So it's not like they grew up with like movies and novels. So okay, here's where we're gonna get all like a hate down from people, but like you ever read the Old Testament? Yeah. Yeah. So you read the Old Testament and you're like, hello, like you were there, like the people who were on the initial trek out of uh Egypt, right?
Right, right. Like, let's say you see the Red Sea part. You're walking on dry freaking land, right? Could be moist. Moist.
Right, but you're not sinking in. Right. Right. You're walking across it, and then it closes up behind you and swallows your enemies. Right.
Well, all the plagues before, you know, right. All that. Like, oh, you know, why would you make a golden calf is your question? That's right. Right.
Makes no sense. Right. The guy that saved you says, you know, wait here, chill. Chill. Yeah.
I'm gonna go get some stuff. And it's like, no, golden calf immediately. Right. But it's the same thing as Star Wars. So I mean, it's the same, it's very similar idea.
It seems unbelievable from the outside, but it must be that when you're living in that time. Right. Well, and if you get into the like no now defunct uh expanded universe, uh, the emperor was a huge space racist. What first of all, first of all, expanded universe. Yeah, he was.
And and and what do you mean now defunct? The universe imploded, it's already uh when Disney took over Lucas, they kind of said, okay, everything that's in the expanded universe, not canon anymore. Because they're gonna make it. So what? If I pay a trillion dollars, like I can't erase the crusades.
Yeah, but this isn't the crusades, this is fiction. Well, it is and it isn't. I mean, like, you know, I'm sure some of the people that already worked on it are dead. Now their work's erased. Yeah.
It's well, it's not part of the canon. It's part of this like legacy thing. So, you know, Han and uh Leia no longer have twins who have the force. Uh, Grand Admiral Thrawn doesn't exist. Wait, who doesn't have the force anymore?
Uh well, they don't have kids anymore. Well, they got Kylo Wren. Spoilers, if you haven't seen the uh this is all too confusing, Don. Like, why can't they just like leave well enough alone? Well, you know, because it's Disney, it's the mouse.
And he, you know, in the same way that the mouse will live forever in the copyrights and will always be putting out mouse products. Now Star Wars is going to be there forever, you know, for the next for the rest of eternity, there's going to be a new Star Wars property every year. And the movies are like top tier canon, like all the books, that's just kind of like secondary. Right. But no, first of all, let's straighten this all out, people.
Canon is canon. There is no tier within the canon. It's all canon. Well, no, there's not. No, there's there's the trilogy series, and then there's these stories, the side stories.
No one, no one's like, no one's like, you know what? Deuteronomy, we're gonna throw that crap away, but Genesis we're gonna keep. Isn't that called the New Testament? No, we'll keep that stuff. Not really.
That doesn't count anymore. No, no, there is a Bible analogy isn't it? There's stuff in the New Testament that supersedes some of the old stuff. Right. So that's different.
So they're saying, like, you know, all that old stuff, that actually didn't happen. That was a fever dream. No one said that. No one said that. Disney's saying that.
In the New Testament, that never happened. Yeah, but Disney's saying that. You know, it's a that was a thing, you know, people were spinning their yarns, but now this is the real thing. Anyway, again, this is not obviously we're not supposed to be talking about religion, and I guess not Star Wars either. And we're not supposed to be talking about it, which is religion for some.
It's true. Recognize religion. Right. It's not a political show, not a religion show, and not a it's a family friendly show. Yeah.
In general, Disney. Family friendly. They are very friendly friendly. I will not say anything negative against the Disney Corporation other than I think it's ridiculous to like add and array stuff out of uh Canon. Yeah.
So let me uh Dave, you want me to get the pre-roll out out of the way, actually somewhat pre. Yeah, yeah, bang it out. Today's you know, the thing is, Dave, I still did you look into this? We're brought to by like two people. You can't be brought to by two separate people.
You can you can edit the copy on the fly if you want. Well if they brought you halfway each. Is this like one of those footsteps in the sand freaking things? Today's program is brought to you by Modernist Pantry, providing magical ingredients for the modern cook for free videos, recipes, tips, and tricks. Visit modernistpantry.com.
And better yet, visit blog.modernistpantry.com. All right. That's beautiful. Thank you. All right.
So Don, you brought some uh interesting snacks here. What do you got here? I got here uh no mouth noises on air. No mouth noises. I got a couple of weird snacks from uh Sophie's dad.
And uh the first is a sweet butter flavored fried oyster snacks that they suggest you use instead of bacon bits on uh on your salads. I can believe that. I can believe that. And this is from where's this from? This is uh product of Korea.
All right. We'll try that, we'll rip that open, we'll eat some during the break. What's the other one? The other one is some kind of like fried all crunchy olive. It's a sour cream and onion flavor.
I don't know where that's from. And it's named Sky Cielos? Yeah. Is that does that mean sky? I don't know.
Made by Dumet. Possibly Dumay. All right, we'll try those in a minute. Meanwhile, let's get to some questions. Uh oh, yeah, we gotta caller, caller.
You're on the air. Hi, Dave. This is Ron uh from New York. Can you hear me? Yeah.
Hey, so I have a quick question followed by another follow-up question. Uh one is I have a friend who's um making some fresh sausage and serving it outdoors. So we want to parcook it in a combi oven. That's all he's got. He doesn't have an emergency circulator or anything like that.
Wait, wait, wait. Let's back up. You have a friend who owns a combi oven and not an immersion circulator? Don't ask, yeah. He was convinced that he needed a combi oven.
Does this person still have a mother? Is this person's mother still alive? Get her to slap him. How do you not have a circulator and you own a combi oven? That's the that might be the I'm I'm gonna answer your question in a sec, but that might be the most ridiculous thing I've heard in I'm gonna make up a number here, the past 22 days.
I will let him know that. Yeah, okay. You know what? You know what circulators cost now? Like nothing.
They're like potato chips. They're like 150 dollars. And he's got a combi oven. You got some rich taste potato chips. The electricity bill, even on a gas oven.
The electricity bill on a combi oven is gonna those nice ones. Yeah, it's gonna far exceed. But I mean, uh okay, whatever. Go ahead, go ahead. Question.
So anyway, he he's got a fresh sauce. We have fresh sausages that we want to par cook in the combi oven. I just wanted to I'm assuming 100% steam. Yes. Um I just want to know time and temperature.
What's the follow-up question would be What's what size sausage is? How does the steam work in a combi oven when it's set under 212? So have you read the uh have you read uh Modernist Cuisine actually has a uh a good explanation of uh this. Um so and uh I guess they don't do uh look inside. But uh if you have access to modernist cuisine, I recommend you go look at it.
But basically what they do is it kind of I'm sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna take this uh question off to the air. I gotta I gotta run. Okay, all right. So uh thank you so much. All right, no problem.
So I'll I'll may I'll give you the answer. So the combi ovens, uh what they do is they inject steam into the oven and then uh like that kind of it cancels out over over the over the period. So the temperature actually kind of fluctuates a bit. The steam is always being created above the temperature of boiling water, and then when it goes into the oven, they just uh don't inject enough of it to raise the uh temperature of the oven uh high enough, and they have a giant fan and they vent out anything that they're not using to keep the that's one of the reasons there's such monsters on electricity, and one of the reasons why something like a uh CVAP oven, while it doesn't have nearly the uh power that a combi oven has, takes much less electricity to run because they're just maintaining it by using the Louisiana method of uh existing, which is just constantly be soaked in water all of the time. Right.
So like in Louisiana, like, you know, that's it. It's like a hundred percent humidity, you live in, you know, you live in a delta. You're that's it. You got a hundred percent humidity. That's what you got.
And so in a CVAP oven, i if you know if you're below uh if you're below um the uh if you're you know, if you're below boiling, they just heat the water up to the same temperature as the oven cavity, and then that's it. You're in a hundred percent humidity situation. Now, you're not getting huge energy transfer over. It's not like it's nowhere near the energy transfer that you're gonna get out of a um out of a uh immersion circulator, which is a measly hundred and fifty dollar investment. Uh now the good news about a combi oven, a real combi oven, is they do have very good energy transfer at the expense of accuracy, especially uh in the lower uh registers.
Now, when you have a combi oven that's gonna have maybe 10 degrees, 15 degrees of swing uh over, I forget what it is. I wish I'd known it was gonna get called in because I would have just looked it up a modernist uh modernist cuisine because they you know they have all the stats there. But uh it's a good big swing, and uh what you're looking for in a combi oven is what I would like to call the the the integral of the number. So the the if you it were to integrate the temperature swing over time, it would come out to be relatively even. And so then the question is how thick of a food item do you need in there before uh it basically smooths out to being an e even temperature?
And so whether or not that makes a big difference in your sausage is highly dependent on how thick your sausage is. Uh that sounded bad. That sounded bad. I was gonna say something, but it's a family show. Family show.
Family show. That sounded terrible. It didn't. Uh the length of your sausage doesn't make any difference in this case. That's really the girth.
It's really the girth of the sausage that makes a difference. Again, family show. Wow. Uh the good news about sausages is that there are sausages where the temperature you cooked them to is is important. For instance, let's say that you're an enemy of quality and you uh craft a low-fat sausage.
Right. But let's say you craft a low-fat sausage. Low-fat sausage, if you overcook a low-fat sausage, it's like an overcooked hamburger. It's garbage. You know what I mean?
It's like it's gonna be garbage. Um, which is why you should never do that. But you can do that if you um if you're using like low temperature cooking with kind of just a finish off. But uh, in general, for me, like uh doing a low temperature cook on a sausage is just making sure they're all done through without having them cook forever, and it lets you do a real fast finish, and they tend not to split as much, you tend not to explode your casings as much. So I would do um I typically do 140 Fahrenheit, which is 60 Celsius, and you know, you you know, depending on how thick the sausage is, you can uh you know, I usually put them in like an hour before I'm gonna uh use them, and then you they can just ride there for as long as you want, and then you can you know, if you want to, if you think they're riding a long time and you think you're getting texture changes, which you probably won't, because remember ground anyway, I would just you know, you could turn it down a couple of notches to like you know, one 135, which is uh, you know, 57, somewhere like that, and let it ride.
Now, uh some people are gonna think it's too pink on the inside at 140, but if you're actually riding it at 140, which is 60 Celsius, and then you sear them off on a grill, then everyone's gonna love them. Yeah, you said he was gonna parcook them, finish them later. So yeah, so I would do that. I mean, it's enough of a cook, and then so if you're gonna cook them, parcook them and then chill them all the way down and then uh and then like fry them from cold, you could go a degree or two higher, but I really don't think you need to. I l don't I like my sausage at 140 at 60.
So, you know, I would test one and and see whether you like it like that. It's it's gonna have shades of pa the pinkness will still be in the center when you roll it off and fry it. But I'm okay with that. And again, it depends. Let's say you're doing those little thin Ligurian sausages, they take like like no time.
And so, you know, uh those, you know, uh even just to finish off is gonna probably depink the the inside. But if you're doing like, you know, but killbasa's already cooked, but if you're doing something with that form factor, like a large Italian sausage, and yeah. What you should never do with a sausage is try to grill it from raw. That's a huge enemy of quality move. I mean, like, you know, the way we were always taught to do it was sausage in the pan, water cover, water evaporates.
Yep, you know, but the problem there is is that you're never actually gauging when it's done because you don't know exactly how long the water's gonna take to evaporate, and then it spits and puts that scorching, disgusting nastiness on the bottom of your pan. You're really better off immersion circulator, immersion circulator, either in oil, like oil, like oil poaching sausage is great. Beer poaching works, but the problem is is that the first like the first like 20 or 30 sausages, it doesn't have to be beer, you know what I mean. Like the first 20 or 30 sausages taste different from the next 20, 30, 100, 200 sausages. That's why you need the uh the sausage brand Solera, New York City, you know, streetcar style.
Streetcar style, which you know I've drank I've had, I've I bought it and I drank it years and years ago because believe I forget who it was, I think it was timeout in New York. Like they didn't have like they asked me about it. I was like, have you what did you just go taste it? And they're like, No. They're like, did you go t check the temperature?
They're like, no. They're like, that's why we're calling you. So I literally went downstairs, I said, here's five dollars. Can I have a styrofoam cup full of your hot dog water? The guy was like, okay.
And then I shoved my thermometer in it, registered the temperature, and took a sip. So easy. It's the easiest test in the world to run. This is something I will say to people certain tests are just easier to run than to ask someone how to do it. Yeah.
Especially if you live in New York and the hot dog cart is downstairs. Hot dog water, delicious. Tastes exactly like a hot dog. Why hasn't anyone made that ramen yet? I don't know.
That sounds like an Ivan Roman question. Yeah. But like, I mean, it's good. It tastes like hot dog. Right.
So, like everyone who gets all uh bent about like, you know, leaching flavor out of things and ever you ever notice people get super bent about like leaching flavor out of things? There's no flavor being leached out of a hot dog. Now the texture is going to be the texture of a of a dog that has been in water, but an emulsified sausage, and I won't get into the particulars of this because then Don and I will have to find E trainer one of you and kill you because we have you know we have stuff in the works. But the the um the you know the texture of an emulsified sausage, it already has water in it anyway, and so there's no I mean extra water, excess water in it anyway, because it's a battery you know what I mean that's been emulsified. So there's no reason not to poach them.
You know what I mean? Assuming that the flavor, the liquid that you have it in is fully flavored. Right. That was a long-winded well, whatever. Dave, you removed our shot oh no, he turned our shot clock so that the the two strange folks that are eating pizza outside can see what the the radio tells.
I have it on my I have it on my phone here. All right. We have uh we have a ramen question actually let's take him to order. We haven't had done any questions. We have any more callers?
Uh yeah we do actually all right caller you're on the air. Hey Dave, I I just got a quick uh comment actually. Um I just wanted to comment that the the quality of the show uh the last couple episodes has been fantastic. I've listened to you know all hundred or two hundred episodes I think uh but uh but the the guests recently have been doing a great job of challenging you and providing their own uh perspective it's been hysterically funny um so I just wanted to to thank you for that. And I wanted to make a uh a quick comment that um you know you often say it's a it's a family show, and I think you made that comment just now.
You know if you're talking about like how to use methacellulus F50 and all the different techniques, I I don't know that this is really a family show anymore. And I'd actually appreciate a few more uh F bombs and swearing in the show. So that's uh that's just uh my perspective. Thanks for the great show. All right, point taken, but I will say this uh a number of years ago, uh maybe three or four years ago, I got um I got a you know question in, and it you know, it was a question from uh you know the parent of a like 10-year-old who for some reason listened to the show.
Who knows why this happens? Bad parenting. Bad parenting. No, but yeah, but who knows why this happens? And then I was like, oh, I don't wanna, you know, because I have kids, so I don't wanna if I'm gonna do something that is, you know, it's earmuff, let them, you know, let people let people know.
But, you know, if any of those that know me in the real life, right? Uh Don. Yes. Uh I have a mouth on me. Oh, yeah.
I mean, like, you know, like uh uh and and you know, I think Don was on, we were talking about this before in reference to to bars and to you know, kind of how to how to treat your fellow employees in a professional situation in kitchen professional situation. And uh I don't want the salt salty nature of the business to change because then I would have no place in it, right? I mean, like uh so I'm a big user and lover. In fact, my my wife gets very angry because my kids are now old enough that I've started to pepper the salt into uh my daily conversation with the kids, and she's like all mad about it, but you know, I consider uh a good fluid rapid fire, ever-changing burbling of curse words to be the hallmark of a smart person. You know what I mean?
It's like I I I think that's right. And uh I I think that uh that that one 10-year-old's uh experience is is sort of uh uh affecting the enjoyment for all of us adults. Well, you know, you gotta you have the code switch though. Sometimes you're in front of the, you know, in front of house, you gotta talk to guests, you you dial it back. Yeah.
And then when you go back to the back of the house, you know, you're let loose. As I get older, I think I might have mentioned this on the air, but as I get older, certain things like I've I've like lost, I've lost I've like lost my control, not like yelling at people, but lost my control like uh in front of customers like a couple of times. Like you don't, you know, and and act like they're not a customer, but you don't want to do that. You really don't want to do that. You want to try to stay as uh, you know, two zones as possible.
But I will tell you this. We are thinking of doing another Nastasia and I are thinking of doing another uh different radio program, like unrelated to cooking issues, where we basically get to do whatever we want. So the theory of it, see whether you guys like this. The theory of it, and I should I should get to some regular question questions, but like the theory of it is that when you go to dinner, did we already talk about this on air, Dave or not? Uh no, this is news to me.
All right. So don't worry, Dave. Not not right away. But the You're leaving me? No, no, we're doing this radio show, but we're gonna do on the network.
Oh, okay. And uh uh but not related. So what Don, what what do you not do at dinner? What do you not talk about at dinner? Politics, religion.
Right. So what I want to do, and I have ruined so many dinners in my life. Like so many like dinners. I can't see that. Yeah, just obliterated because someone says something, and I'm like, what?
And then that's it. You know what I mean? What? And that's it. Uh, and so what uh what we want to do, Nastasi and I, Nastasi and I have these arguments constantly off air too, like half of our time spent arguing with each other.
Because believe it or not, Nastasi and I are like very different. Like, I mean, I guess you can believe that anyway. Um, and it extends beyond her dislike of biscuits. But the uh coffee. She's not that she doesn't like coffee, it's that she's ambivalent.
It's not that she's ambivalent, she pr specifically buys crap coffee to make me feel like I'm some sort of uh, you know, fancy pants. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. She she would rather drink crappy coffee. She's one of those people who incorrectly believes it's more American to drink crap coffee. And to me, like that's everything I hate.
Yeah, like well, that's I hate that. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's it's bad to be snobby about coffee, it's bad to like look down on what somebody else likes. That's bad inherently. But she would also salt the earth just to make fun of you.
That's right. Yeah, right. And she also enjoys as you know, to make it back into a family show, yuck yucking my yum. Yeah, she likes to yuck my yum. Anyway, I'm sidetracking you, good.
Anyway, uh, so anyway, we want to do a show, and I'm also like, I think all of us, everyone in the country, probably, if they if they have half a brain, is sick of the echo chamber where we're all only hanging out with people that we agree with. That's why family dinners are so interesting, because you don't pick your family, they just show up and they have different views from you do you know, you a lot of the time that you know than you do. And so we want to have people in where we talk about food ostensibly, but then like a bad dinner conversation, it spirals off into religion and politics, and hopefully we get a good group of people together that disagree, and then we just kind of go off on it. Well, you gotta really get Nastasha to be unfiltered though, because she's so buttoned up on this show. Well, if we get someone else who has uh who's slightly crazier than her on X, Y, or C View, then she will be like, Yeah, Dave, yeah, and then I'll go like ballistic bananas.
You know what I mean? But uh anyway, so we're I would I would definitely watch or listen to that show and volunteer to be that third person. Nice. All right. Well, remember, we need a good mix.
Always need to be people that we disagree with uh you know on the air. Anyway, so uh keep an eye out for it. We're working on it. All right. Thank thanks for the great shows, Dave.
All right, thank you. All right. So uh Darren wrote in, and I can't remember, Dave, whether we answered any of his questions. Tell me if there's a caller, otherwise I'm just gonna keep doing questions. There is another caller, yeah.
All right, caller, you're on the air. Hi, Dave, how are you? Doing all right? I listen to that show as well. Good, thanks.
Um hey, I want to ask you, I've been using um just kind of like the crappy Britta filter for a while now. Um mostly uh trying to get like chlorine out of the water for um homebrewing. Um and I want to try and like look into installing something in the sink. And I'm just kind of curious if you have any recommendations or like what should I be looking for in a system and like how crazy do I need to get with it kind of thing. Good question.
Apartment or house. Uh apartment. Okay, you you do you own it or you don't own it? Do not own it. Okay.
Do you okay? You're what I'm gonna tell you to do is not gonna damage no one's gonna know. Let me ask you this. When you look under your sink, do you see the probably half-inch copper pipe coming out, or is the what's called an angle stop, which is the the thing that it that shuts the water supply, the coal water supply off to your sink. Is it in in the wall directly, or can you see the half-inch copper?
No, you can see it. Oh, ha. Okay. Do you know how to use a torch? Uh no.
Okay. You might need to hire a plumber or just find anyone who knows how to use a torch. The only danger involved here is that you are uh that you could burn your apartment down. It's if you know how to use a torch and you get the shielding, it's like super easy. Here's what most people are gonna do.
They're gonna go to the the big their local big box store, like a Lowe's or a home depot, and you're gonna buy uh like a the GE is the brand I use, water filter, and they come, they're they're basically plastic um canisters that uh screw together and they have an O-ring, and inside of it is a kind of a uh you know a um a circular, a cylindrical filter, and you only need the one that does odor, which is the lowest the the assuming where where do you live? Sorry? What's what city are you in? Uh New York. Okay, your water tastes great other than the chlorine.
You don't need the filter out, probably lead, crypto, whatever they're filtering out. You need just a like chlorine odor filter. And the reason you don't want to get a what they would call higher quality filter is you want the least restrictive filter that does what you need, because um you're gonna your flow is gonna go lower and lower and lower over time. And if you're gonna be doing anything with it, you want as high a flow as possible. But the classic mistake that everybody makes, and I'm looking at you, whoever was the handyman at Sombar when we tried to install our filter the first time at Booker Index, um, what they tend to do is just unscrew the um the connector between the angle stop that I was telling you about and the coal water supply, and they screw a T on.
The problem is is that your angle stop is extremely restrictive compared to the half inch pipe. And so if someone tries to use filtered water, uh you you you want as much because the filter drops the pressure so much, you want as much input pressure and if and cross section area into that filter as possible. So what long story, you're gonna want someone to put a copper T into your line before the angle stop, right? Uh install a full port. I'm I'm gonna say this one more time.
A full port. Actually, you can get uh one of these things with its own stop rod, but install a full port uh ball valve that's the same diameter as your thing. So you can shut the system off if you need and tee it into a G, you know, one of those GE. You don't need a whole house, but the whole house filters last a lot longer, so you get the whole house one because I think what, Don, it's an extra like 15 bucks or something like that, maybe. You'll save so much more money on the filters.
Yeah, and and time and hassle, and then uh you just run it out of that to like a another tap that you can put into your sink. And if you don't want to put it into sink, you don't need to, you can just have a tap underneath. Uh just make sure you can shut it off because things like you don't want to pressurize something crappy like a like a picnic tap, as they're called, because what'll uh if you're a beer person, you know what I'm talking about. Because uh they could fail at any minute, and when you have something connected to city water that could fail at any minute, you have failed. You know what I mean?
So uh I would get uh an actual like line that you can turn off and on. But that's de a hundred percent the way to go. And in fact, if you get a good enough filter, you can just have that be the cold water supply for your um for your sink, and you're gonna go through filters a lot longer, but all your water will taste good out of the coal out of the cold water tap. You the one thing like I gotta say, I would not, if I were you, attempt to run uh a filter like off of the normal angle stop that is there. It's just gonna be a heartache for you.
You can do it, it'll last for a couple months, and your water through that thing was gonna be slow, slow, slow, slow, slow, but then it's like a $50 problem. If you have to hire a plumber, now it's $200 more dollars, right? So now you're a $250 problem, unless you have a buddy who can come just sweat the stuff together, because we're really honestly talking about $15, $20 worth of copper here, maybe. Yeah. Um, and you know, a lifetime.
I've done it in every single apartment I've been in for the past 20 years. You know what I mean? Because that's just like I can't live with that. I can't live with chlorine taste in my in my water, especially in my seltzer, and uh yeah. Right.
Awesome. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Oh, one more thing. You can get a uh a clear one and you can get the not clear one, and when you're buying the GE water filters, here's the main problem the GE water filters have that they're made out of plastic.
So if you cross-thread anything, they become a nightmare and they they leak later. And so you want to make sure when you're putting the fittings into the water filters, not to cross-thread anything and to be relatively gentle with the plastic so that it doesn't uh crack, and you're gonna need to be able to get the thing off. So make sure that you have good access to it to get to remove the bottom uh to get it off because that that becomes uh uh a hassle. And please do follow their instructions to bleed all the air out of it before you're using it or or you know, comedy ensues. All right.
Thanks a lot. No problem. I got a topic for you for when you get your new show with Nastasha. You gotta get uh someone to come in and talk about uh chemtrails and how you're gonna filter out chemtrails in your water. What's a chemtrail?
You know the the airplane, like uh the condensation? Oh, the code. People who think that that's the government, like you know, spraying chemicals. It's not. Okay.
Uh zing. All right. So should we go to a break and then come back with some uh questions? Uh yeah, let's do that. All right, cool.
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You know you'll get great results, so you can focus on sides and sauces, or just pour yourself a cocktail and chill until you're ready for a delicious dinner. For more information and to order yours now, visit ChefSteps.com slash J-O-U-L-E. And we are back. So during the break, Don and I tried uh the fried oysters that we told you about. And the crunchy olives made by the Cielo Corporation.
And uh, here's my feedback. They f like Don hated the fried oysters. I didn't hate it. I just didn't think it was good. Well, so here's what I uh wait.
You grew up in do they have crispy clam strips in LA? Not really. Okay. So if you grew up on the East Coast, you grew up with crispy clam strips. You know who invented the crispy clam strip for hojos?
No idea. Jacques Papin. Swear to God. Jacques Papin went from being Charles de Gaulle's chazniker, being his personal chef, uh, took a job being the head chef of, as Jacques Papin calls it, Lojo, hojo's. And one of his things, it's it is claimed, is the the Howard Johnson's crispy clams strip.
That's crazy. Yeah. Dave, you like some crispy clam strips, am I right? Absolutely. East Coast.
Yeah. So anyway, so these fried oysters taste like imagine if you had crispy clams strips, you bought them in the East Coast, you flew to uh Phoenix, let's say that's where you lived, and you left them out on a counter in 120 degree heat and no humidity for like a day, and then you looked at them and you said, I'm gonna try that. That's what it tastes like. No bueno. Why do you want that?
You want fresh. Well, you say it's an accurate description? Yeah. Well, they're kind of growing on me. I remember this let's rewind a little bit.
I'm the guy that when I worked at Domino's Pizza in college, uh, as a driver, ate a pound of raw bacon because I was bored. And when they said why do you do that? I said, I thought it was cooked. I just thought it was bad quality. So that's me.
Yeah. Anyway, uh, and what do you think about the crunchy olives? Um, they were crunchy. The inside was kind of mushy. That was interesting.
It's well, it's a dried olive, so I don't know. One kind of raisin-y texture. Yeah. All right. I here we have a uh here we have another caller.
Caller, you're on the air. Hey, Dave. I just got some uh leak-proof reusable storage bags, and uh it says 100% P-E-V-A, and it says they're B T A free. I was just wondering uh the usability for Su V. P uh so it's not P-E-T-E.
What's P-E-T-O like P E T A. Yeah. P E V A. Yeah. Googling with uh a bunch of stuff about power curtains.
P-E-V-A. I don't know if I know that that um I don't know. Hey, Don, could Google up that uh resin real quick. But um this is designed for food, right? Yeah, food storage.
I just don't know if you know it's polyethylene vinyl acid in a water bath. Yeah. I'm sure I've looked this up before, but I just don't know much about I don't know anything about that that resin off the top of my head. I've it like uh for some reason it's like out of my head. I have no P V DE.
Anyway, here here's here's my general theory on on uh on these things on plastics. In general, there are certain plastics that um when they degrade might make things that are I mean what most people worry about are plastic plasticizers and endocrine disruptors, so things like phthalates, things like uh BPA, which is why, you know, in general, a lot of people in cooking applications try to avoid PVC. Um and some people avoid um polycarbonate that's gonna go through the dishwasher because when it goes through dishwasher and when it's damaged, apparently you can get um uh BPA from it because that's you know one of the monomers I believe that polycarbonate's made out of. Although again, you're you're it's been what happens is every couple of years, uh someone asks me and I have to re-up my knowledge on it, and that's when I know more about it. So um two classes of things, right?
Uh and so the plasticizers are in things uh the the reason you want to go with PVC, it's the plasticizers that people are usually worried about. So when you're using PVC for food applications, I usually buy what's called Tigon, which is a very high purity, you know, apparently plastic you know, supposed to be plasticizer uh leach-free product. Um in general, you want to stay, you know, with home stuff with things that are like known to be incredibly neutral, like um polyethylene. The problem, and that's why you know polyethylene wrap is so good, but polyethylene is very bad at high temperatures. It loses its uh structural integrity.
So if this thing is meant for food storage, it could be that so for instance, a lot of the the uh Ziploc uh food storage bags versus their freezer bags, it's a thickness issue. So you it's more of a an oxygen permeability issue. And one of the reasons that the that those things aren't cooking bags is because they don't have another layer of something that's tougher, like a nylon that can withstand like uh a lot uh you know higher temperature. Uh and so a lot of times when someone says storage, it's because they know that the service temperature of the of the uh plastic is lower than with the average cooking temperature because the no one is anticipating um no one's anticipating you know you low temperature cooking. There's not anticipating it.
And that was the case with Ziploc bags. And so the Ziploc bag they would say you couldn't cook in it because they assumed you're gonna do boiling bag in it, and that really is kind of above the usable service temperature of a Ziploc bag. And but I got the guys at Johnson to, you know, say that you know low temperature was okay. What do you find on the line, Don? Very little information.
It's a lot of uh housewives talking about whether it's safe for their kids in lunchboxes. But it as the caller says, it's also a lot of uh, you know, uh shower curtain stuff. Yeah. Yeah, so I tend not to I I don't the answer is I don't know. I know that there's someone right now making specifically, because I saw it on like Jewel like got tweeted out to me or something like that, or somebody tweeted out someone's making some reusable, I don't know if they're silicone.
Let me ask you this though. Uh isn't reusing the bag just like super gross. I mean, yeah, but I just hate throwing away plastic bags for every cook. I just feel like I'm you know, like a dirty person. Uh no, I'm with you, but like, in other words, like, what is your dishwasher look like and or your sink?
Like, see, so like um, if you've ever like pastry bags, right? So pastry bags are disgusting to wash out. Everyone hates washing out pastry bags. And you know, that's why you have those conical things to to dry pastry bags, and that's why, you know, the truth is is we all put like we all put stuff we we, you know, like at FCI, we're all using disposable plastic cooking bags, I mean uh pastry bags, even if you're only using it as a liner because nobody wants to wash out those cloth bags. Everybody hates doing it.
Um so like my and you know, my thing, my thing is I'm just worried that you know, people are going to be like, oh, this is such a hassle, and then they're just not gonna want to cook that way because they know when they're done, you know, when they're pulling service, now you have to take the bag and you have all the juices and stuff. Now you gotta upturn that bag in your sink, let it drain and wash it right away so it doesn't get all stank duty, and then you gotta like turn it inside out and let it uh air out in a place that's not stacked up or it's gonna get moldy. So I'd be interested in hearing as you use it over time, kind of how that kind of works out because I would like to have a non-throwing away method um you know to do things. You're either the kind of parent that's gonna use disposable diapers or cloth diapers. And if you're gonna use cloth diapers, you just gotta commit to it.
And it's well, the cloth diaper thing. Now again, I haven't researched this in a long time, but like you know, a lot of people have debunked the cloth diaper because it you know some people have argued, I don't know whether it's true or false or where it comes down, that it's just as bad to run the washing machines as much uh as it is to just get the disposable diaper. Right. But that that could be dependent on where you live, right? Like water is not in short supply here, whereas in California, if you're running your washing machine all the time for disposable diap, I mean for uh cloth diapers, could be problematic.
Right. Yeah. So who knows? The answer is too much. But I'm very interested to hear people's feedback, especially as I'm writing this book.
I I I should be researching this topic more. I've been spending more time on things like the Crown Roaster Pork recipe that I'm working on. The last one I did was slightly overcooked. Slightly overcooked. Um poor moisture management.
Terrible well, good moisture management on the crust, but not in the interior. Right. So again, again, overall poor moisture management. I was kind of sad it was so close to being right, but a crown roast is very difficult to get exactly right because if you overcook it a little bit, it's rotten, especially with like you know, like modern pork. I was so close to it being right though.
That's why gotta get that heritage pork. Gotta get the good stuff. Good stuff kids go for. All right. Anyway, please let me know what happens.
Uh all right. So, Dave, could should I get some uh email questions here? Yeah, yeah, bang one out real quick. So um this one, I think we answered some of these, Darren wrote in. He asked what happened to Indy Jesus.
I don't know. And Jack Inslee, if if we can uh send uh an email to Jack Insley and a ask him to maybe he can call in you know next week with the the story of Indy Jesus and what happened to Stasia. Saw him on the street once, I think. Hey, what's up? This is Jack Insley.
Yeah, that that Jack Insley Jackie Molecules. Uh yeah, yeah. Um then my girlfriend has celiac disease, uh, and now I love experimenting. I found that it doesn't mean much to replicate glutinous food. Uh bringing something new to the table is far more exciting and meaningful.
Do you have uh frameworks or methods that you guys like to use when working in the lab develop well, I don't have a lab right now, but yeah, at home or whatever. Uh developing new recipes. I'm talking inspirational, uh variational, creative tweaking, etc. So in general, what I like to do is I like to look at recipes that naturally don't have whatever X, Y, or Z thing is that you know you don't want to work with and then work from there. So like I would look at like the panoply of naturally gluten-free uh food.
So inherently you're like, okay, I'm gonna go to like I'm gonna look at at um cultures that have a corn-based staple and I'm gonna look at cultures that have a rice-based staple. And if you do that, there's like a zillion like a bazillion things. Like, you know, I've spent uh a bunch of time over the last year working on um idleys, and idleys are gluten-free. Uh, and so and the interesting thing about it is that they develop there are different textures, first of all. There are different kinds of textures you can develop, but there are also I know you said you didn't want to do this, but there there are adjuncts that are added to things to make them act uh, you know, hydrocolloids typically, you know, uh to make up for the fact that you don't have things like gluten, like witness masa, you know, which is you know, God's you know, one of the proofs of God is masa.
It's amazing. Uh nixalization in general, or like I say, Italy's uh uh in in in India. But then um, you know, I don't know, what do you think, Don? I mean I mean, just the way of approaching it, you have two basic ways, right? Unless you're some genius that can create things in a vacuum, you're either gonna take something that already exists that has gluten and try to make it non-gluten, or you're gonna find something that already doesn't have gluten and try to turn that into something that is similar to something that has gluten.
Right. I mean, like the you know, the issue obviously, and you deal with this every day if you know if you have celiac is like the secret gluten, like the gluten that's you know, the secret gluten. There's like uh, you know, why would you think that uh Sichuan broad bean paste has gluten in it? But guess what it does? You know what I mean?
Like you know, right? I mean that's like that's the kind of thing you have to kind of look out for. But uh I think any I it's gonna sound bad. I love stealing ideas from other cultures because they've spent, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years trying to figure out X, Y, and Z with whatever they have, right? So some place that didn't have a lot of glutinous uh uh you know products with gluten in it, or doesn't have a barley-based or a wheat-based uh culture, I mean they're gonna know how to make good stuff with their stuff.
Right. A lot of the problem that I'm finding though is like with the traditional Asian ingredients, especially the fermented stuff, traditionally it shouldn't have gluten, but as a modern manufacturing process, they add gluten. They add they add wheat because it's cheap. So usually if you live in a big enough city with an ethnic population, there's probably some grandmother that is making like miso or like you know, Korean like cochujang like red pepper paste, and not selling it in stores, but has like some local network. Try to tap into that because then you can get some stuff that's homemade, you know, even soy sauce that's homemade that doesn't have gluten.
Right. But I think you know I think he's also just more worried about like on the creative so in other words, there's two problems. There's ingredient sourcing, that's like the secret gluten and things, but then there is just kind of thinking around having uh, you know, gluten. And I think if you try to put yourself in the mindset of cultures that don't have it, you know, in general, then it becomes very easy because you know, you're using a different palette, you're using um I'll give you anything, it give you but doesn't mean you have to mimic the flavors, but you take like the structure. Like Don and I were talking, like I have been fascinated for years.
I have like you know, for a home, probably the largest set I've ever seen of Tulsotes. I have like ten of them. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm in my house, uh, of varying sizes.
At Tulso's the the hot how do you pronounce it in real life? Tulso. All right, uh the Korean stone bowls that are used for for Bibbab. Yeah, the stone bowl one. Yeah.
Yeah. What's the other word gobdole mean? The gobdle bibimbob when they put it in the tulsote. Or is that just so a word that's in my head for now? Anyway.
So anyway, so the stone bowls, like I find are amazing, but I just steal them and like here's the b so h here's a thief's mind, right? You go, you have the bibimbop in the toll soot, right? And you're like, oh, crispy rice, egg, egg cooks, when you stir crispy rice, you need some fun kind of sauce because otherwise the rice is dry, oil, hot bowl, rice, egg, right? Yeah. Herb on top, maybe.
That's what I do. Anyway, point is that like that's it. Like, that's the framework. That's the symphony, that's the sonata, that is the structure. And then I add whatever I want to it now, as long as, you know, like that's the basic structure.
So that's how good thievery works. So like uh uh with idlys, I'm like, okay, it's uh idley rice, um uh fenigreek, you know, uh, you know, whatever you're gonna put in in it for normally, you you uh soak it, uh, you know, let lentil, dull lentil, you soak it, you grind it in a wet grinder, bought one for this purpose. Right now you have the basic thing, awesome. And you can, you know, any number of sauces, you know, eating from breakfast. I've you know, and they're like, I can make this into a dinner thing.
Hell, I can stuff it. So I did I talk about this on air? I do chip, I stuff chili and other things into the idly as though it was a steamed bun, but it's still an idly. That's good thievery. Yeah.
Because you're stealing, you're taking somebody else's culture, but you're not tied to it because it's not your culture. So you can just take the structure of it and use it for other things. It's bad if you're being disrespectful. Right. Don't be disrespectful.
Don't be disrespectful. But I think uh there's nothing I think inherently wrong with like looking at other kind of constructs and struct what's wrong is saying that you're doing an authentic X, Y, or Z. Right. Or trying to pretend that, you know, that you know, you're somehow the uh the the preacher of somebody else's culture, you know, you know, here in the US. That's where it goes all haywire.
Right. But if you're just like, hey, I find that this technique or this structure interesting, I mean, how can anyone get mad at that? Yeah, just be a fan of it. Yeah, or like, but they're or like don't even try your s don't even say you're trying to do that. You know what I mean?
Like, don't even say that what you're doing is related to what they're doing, other than this is where I stole this idea. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, a tribute. Always.
Always. Always. Hey Dave. So I got one more caller, but before that, I I got a reply from Jack Insley. He says, Tell Dave I miss him so much.
And last saw Indy Jesus when he was at a cafe in Williamsburg. I will dig deeper into this. We will get some Indy Jesus information, and we also miss the Jackie Molecules. Not that you're not great, Dave, but everybody misses Jackie Mollech. Understood.
Yeah. Wait, so we have a caller? We do. All right, caller, you're on the air. Uh hello.
Hey. Hey, so uh a couple long time listeners here. We got a quick question for you. Hopefully has a quick answer. Uh do you have any method for quickly peeling uh walnuts?
Ooh, you know, my grandpa used to be able to break a single walnut in his hand. A single walnut. That's very hard. I'm just gonna mention that offhand. I can break, I can crack walnuts, two walnuts in my hand.
Now, when you say uh, but not one. Uh, are you saying that but he was also a jerk, so I'd rather have had him been not so much of a jerk and not be able to crack walnuts. Here's my question for you. When you say peel, do you mean get the shell off, or do you mean to get the skin off of it? I get the skin, get the skin off of it.
I don't have a good technique for it. But uh, Dave, anyone we should put that out to the you know what I this is an interesting problem. Do you have uh are you staring at a giant 50-pound sack of walnuts right now, and that's why you're telling me about this? Uh no, actually, it's just like a uh a project that came up like a week ago that we uh me and a colleague co-worker of mine, we do about like um about 200 grams a day. Uh, and it's just like it's so much to do in one day that we actually end up taking them home.
And like uh my girlfriend and I have this like new thing that we do. It's called uh Net Netflix and Nuts, where we just like sit in bed all day and watch Netflix and peel a walnut. It sounds like a good idea. Family show. Family show.
No, oh, oh Don, you had to take it there. Walnuts. We all know the joke at the beginning of uh of uh of the the Snoop Dogg song with the with the walnuts and the we all know so we're not gonna get into that. That was a Snoop Dogg song, right? Anyway, the uh this is an interesting problem.
I mean, obviously I know how to do it for almonds and um for whole nuts. You know what? I'm gonna ask so McGee, Harold McGee, you know, has access to these fantastic walnuts where there's no tannins in the in this stuff, and so you don't need to get you're talking about getting the membrane off from the shell, or you're talking about getting the tannic skin off. Uh the tannic skin. Yeah.
Uh I'm gonna he has a an in with the walnut board. So I'm gonna see if I can get in touch with McGee. I think he's back in the U.S., he was in Japan recently. I'm gonna see if he can get in touch maybe with the walnut board and see whether or not the walnut board has any uh and I'm gonna see someone today whose grandpa is a walnut farmer. Uh and I will also ask him like what's what's going on.
Is there a good way to do this? So like you can buy the extremely expensive low tannin varieties, but they're not readily available. Um and they're from California. Uh but I I'll look into it. This is an interesting problem.
I don't have any answer for you right now, though. Chad was got another. All right, we'll we'll we'll get it going. Just keep reminding me if if you don't hear about it, remind me because I'm gonna be talking to everyone I know that's got some nut and some some nut knowledge. I'm gonna be pestering them when I when I hear them.
That's that by the way, for those of you that don't, that's how I operate in the real life. So like I'll like when I see someone, I'll be like, hey, you have any ideas on how to get this? That's how I work, right, Don? How to boss that nut. Oh, geez.
No, you want to keep the nut whole. Keep it whole. Family show. These nuts? Uh well, that you know we love the these nuts.
All right, so we still didn't get to so Dave, I know you're gonna make me uh get off the air here. Here's my question to you. Yes, you do have to read that thing before we go. That was not it, but okay. But uh Nastasia's gonna get real mad because she was so psyched that she was gonna miss the show where I was gonna actually answer all the questions.
We've answered like two of the many questions that have backed up. Right. Should can we just schedule like an extra, like we either gonna have to do a no-caller show or we're gonna have to schedule an extra, like a where we actually finish these things off, or Nastasia's gonna be so mad at me. Yeah. We don't want that.
Um yeah, it's up to you. I don't know, however, you want to do it. I don't know. Cooking is people, let me know. Let me know what you think about the new show.
Uh thanks to uh Don for coming in and on the way out, I'm gonna read uh this modernist pantry rollout. You want to do it that way? Sounds good. I got one question and one I want to leave with your your listeners. All right.
So I know you don't have an answer to this, or you have opinions, but I have this question. What is a churro? So okay so like is a churro the actual like the batter, or is it the shape? It is well, in other words, if you were to put if you were to put meat through a churro press, it would not be a churro. Right.
If you were to pour batter into oil and not through a churro press, it would be a beignet or a donut. But it's specific kind of batter. It's not your regular beignet batter or your, you know, it's just it's like this like hot batter. I have to look up the churro recipe. Right.
First of all, let me ask you a question. Are you a fan of uh Italian uh Christmas pastries? Not particularly. Oh, yeah. Yeah?
Yeah. Well, so you know how they have like all kinds of Italian has all kind of like cold fried things. Yeah. Like Struvoli and all that stuff. Like, yeah, so like, but they don't want to eat it fresh.
That's the thing. They don't want to eat it when I think that they should want to eat it, which is funny. So churros, I like a hot churro, but on the subway, they're all cold churros. Oh, that's a terrible churros, though. But they sell like churros.
That's because that's like New Yorkers who've never had a real churro. Uh, the guy selling it is not like, you know, I mean, the guy selling it presumably knows what a churro tastes like. Yeah, but the guy would rather have a real churro set up and be making them fresh if he could. It's just that he's in a New York City subway. See, I don't like this.
Here's my point. It's like if you people, if you are in a situation where you cannot make X product the way you want to make it, then do not make X product, make Y product or Z product. So you do not believe that this person thinks that the churro that he or she is selling is a valid churro. You think that it's always you think this person gets up at zero in the morning, loads up the big board of churros with all that plastic wrap over it and the cart, wheels it onto whatever subway line, like hauls their butt out there and sells it knowing that they're selling crap. Knowing that they're selling to people who won't know the difference and that they have to make this compromise because that's the way they're gonna make a living.
But you could sell anything. You don't need to sell churros. You could sell a different product that's not garbage. Cookies, for instance. You could, but that's what they sell.
I I'm not this person, I don't know. But the question is, do you like a cold donut? You like a cold donut? Yeah, a cold donut's okay. By the way, uh Wiley's opening his uh his place.
Uh dude don't do his own. Yeah, I didn't get to go to the friends and family, and neither did you because we were uh working edible schoolyards last night. But that's when friends and family. Otherwise, we would have been there eating his donuts. I heard they were delicious.
The rest of my family enjoyed them. Anyway, so look out for Wiley's donuts opening up. But to me, the hallmark of a good donut is a donut that is good cold. Not a churro, huh? Churro has to be hot.
All right. All right. Space space racist. So could you could you put churro batter into a waffle iron and then when it comes out, like put the cinnamon and sugar on it? No.
Is that a churro? No. Could you put a churro in a tandoor, John Daragon style? No. No.
No. John Daragon wants a tandoor everything. No. Yes, but you still need a fryer. You could fry the churro and then maybe reheat it in a tandoor.
How about that? Or you know. You can't reheat it in a waffle iron because that would be. Listen, I can't go too much into the technology of waffles because then I'll be divulging things that Don and I are working on. Let me just put it that way.
I cannot go too deep into waffle technology at this point. Give us like three, four months, and I can go into waffle technology. But the origin of the churro, what is it? I will have to do more research. I have to do more research, and we'll leave that with the cooking issues listener.
And here, thank you for coming. Here is our. I was supposed to read this earlier, but here it is. Ready? Modernist Pantry is created by food lovers and cooking issues fans, just like you.
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