Today's show is brought to you by Bob's Redmill, sharing nothing but the best in whole grain nutrition and committed to their mission of good food for all. Learn more at Bob's Redmill.com slash podcast. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. We're a member supported food radio network broadcasting over 35 weekly shows live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. Join our hosts as they lead you through the world of craft brewing, behind the scenes of the restaurant industry, inside the battle over school food, and beyond.
Find us at heritage radio network.org. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 from Roberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn. Joined as usual with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
Good. Got Dave in the booth. Also good. And everybody's favorite punching bag, Peter Kim. He has a knee brace.
Well, by the way, Dave. There are a lot of people who come to MoFad and will say that they listen to cooking issues. And they'll come over, and the first thing they'll do is they'll introduce themselves and say, hey, you know, I'm a big fan of cooking issues and mean to come to MoFad. The second thing they say is, you're the punching bag of the show, huh? And then they punch you.
That's right. Hey, listen, you're not allowed to actually punch Peter Kim, I don't think. Unless he like invites you. Taking a stand. He's gonna like he's gonna end up being like Houdini.
He's gonna have some sort of like uh, you know, latent appendicitis, and someone's gonna punch him when he's not looking, and it's gonna be a nightmare. And clearly he's prone to medical problems, right? Oh, yeah. Uh well, yeah, he's got a he's he's got a little bit of a gimpy arm today. What do you what what do you have here?
Too much uh It's extreme emailing. He's got galloped of the hand. Peter Kim, by the way, uh ex-lawy, you know, I used to I used to have like paralegals finger from all the hitting copy, copy, copy. You ever used to you ever used to make your paralegals do that? Of course.
Did you respect your paralegals at all? What yeah, of course. You did not. You're a liar. Oh my god.
Speaking of respect. Oh, Chat Room says you should offer to take punches for fundraising for MoFed. Oh that's on the table now. That is good. Okay, so chat room, this is something you might not know.
It does not hurt. So uh speaking of paralegals, you know how like when you're in a law office, you get you don't just buy reams of paper, you buy like pallets of paper and they're in those paper boxes, right? They're in those yeah. So the papers come like many reams to a box. But anyway, the lid of a copier box is an amazingly satisfying thing to hit somebody over the head with.
But it doesn't hurt that much. So I like we used to think that what we would do is we had this one really, really strong guy in the law firm that we would just go down into Grand Central with a bunch of these boxes and allow people to smash them over my head for like five bucks. And then, you know, if someone got out of hand and wanted to swing a punch, then like the large gorilla-like person would just you know crush them into a small cube. But you know, then maybe you could do that. Doesn't get hurt, that doesn't hurt so much.
Yeah, sure. I'm down. But it's impressive sounding. Like when like when the when the box like smashes over your head, it sounds like you're doing something. Yeah, my dad who had issues with me leaving this legal career to start opening this museum, will certainly be puffing his chest up with chest up with pride to learn that uh this is my latest fundraising scheme.
Are you referencing the old uh Uncle Jemima Pure Mash Liquor cartoon uh commercial that uh Morgan did for uh Saturday Night Live back in the day? No, I'm referencing my actual dad. All right. Who hates you? Uh as well he should.
I'm sure Nastasia, if he knew who you, he would hate you as well. No, actually no, he likes Dawson. No. Okay, then okay, there you have it. Uh speed of which Nastasia, on the way over here, I was listening to Boston.
And Nastasi and I have a long-running thing with we both like Boston, the band. Uh this has nothing to do with this the city, but like both of us like We made the mistake of wanting to learn more about them. Right. So I don't know whether we mentioned this. Dave, we've mentioned this on the show before, Delp.
Uh I can't recall, no. Well, the lead singer, Delp, who is a normal heighted person, but just look short compared to Delp is his last name. What's his first name? Last name, okay. I don't remember.
Delp. Anyway, he recorded his sister-in-law in the bathroom, a la uh Chuck Barry. No, I thought it was in the bedroom. Bedroom, bathroom, some sort of a horrible like invasion of privacy. And then Oh, without her knowledge?
Yes. And then uh somehow his I guess his wife found out about it. Anyway, so he he took his own life, but in kind of like a terrible way. He like plugged up all of the doors of his room and lit a bunch of hibaches and just like smoked himself to death. Oh.
Yeah. So he can't think of it. And Nastasi and I are like, that's not like a that's a give up your whole life, move away kind of a situation. Not a kill yourself. It's a it was we can't listen to the music the same way anymore.
Because it's kind of like just it's kind of a downer way to start the show. A little bit. So on a more positive note, uh last night I went to uh the WD-50 pop-up down there on uh Front Street. Good. You know, is it doing all of his because his new book the new book is coming out.
Uh in fact, it's out I think next week. Uh check it out. Uh it's you know, I don't know whether it's all the recipes, but it's like a huge portion of the recipes from WD50. They're actually from the restaurant. So if you ever you know decided that what you really wanted to learn how to do is make Wiley's knot foie, which by the way is not like cannot like K-N-O-T as in foie gras tied into a knot.
Uh it has, I think, also the dessert recipes, so not just the savvy recipes. Check it out. It's uh, you know, it's one of those things that's like $75 on the Amaz on uh retail, but I think Amazon's got it for like 40 or 50. And it comes in its own box. It's one of those books that comes in its own box.
What do you think about books that come in their own box, Nastasia? I see a pizza with greens today. That is a completely unrelated fact. Completely unrelated. Uh also out uh now or coming out right now.
This is the season of books. By the way, Miraville, Nathan Mirville with his bread book was uh on the uh at the museum. Well, is it a six volume? Oh, nanny nanny nanny poo. It's like, yeah, it's the same size as like modernist cuisine, but it's modernist bread.
And it's it's same price too. Yeah. 500 and change bucks. And his and his uh employees carry it around in a nuclear resistant case. Oh, yeah, the new the new case is metal.
Why what why do you do you say why he did that? Were they having problems with acrylic cracking or something in the last one? So, and uh just so you guys know if you uh wish to know more, which I'm sure you do, I know I do, about uh modernist bread, uh you can check out a series of podcasts here on uh Heritage Radio, hosted by none other than uh our man Turkell. Is that true, Dave? What is the name of this podcast?
Modernist Breadcrumbs. So episode one is out now on the Heritage Radio Network website. Episode two is coming out uh next Wednesday, and then every Wednesday thereafter we'll do one episode a week. But uh this Wednesday we're releasing the talk that Nathan did with Michael at MoFed. Yeah, so uh I spoke to him after the talk, and what we're gonna do is is we're gonna wait for the the book to be out for a little while, wait for you know folks out there in the community to generate their questions, and then we'll have uh Mirvold on the program and you can ask him all of the questions about the book directly.
Make sense? Makes sense. I hope they have a section on sandwiches in the book. Oh yeah. Why would they have a section on sandwiches?
That's an entirely different bread. It's a book on bread, not a book on freaking sandwiches. Although I think they have a pizza section, obviously. Yeah, but bread defines sandwiches. That's true.
I mean, do you have a section on like air quality? That defines everything, right? No. Like you know what I mean? Like, no.
Like what's the What? What is it? Just because you make a sandwich out of the bread doesn't mean you have shaking our heads in sort of squinting right now. And not following that Trumpian logic. Whoa!
Whoa. Whoa, not a not this is not the political show. This is not the political show. Oh, yeah, that's in the works. Well, uh uh kind of in the works.
Someone get me some freaking guests. Nastasia, do you know any political people? For the tenth time, no. Peter, do you know any political people? I don't know.
You don't know if you know them? I I don't think about it. Don't think about it. Bad people. Uh another book coming out.
Uh Pete Um Jim Mehan Peter. Jim Meehan's uh new uh bartender's manual book is is uh coming out. I saw an advanced copy. And even though there's a picture of me in it, it is still a very good looking book. It's like a very, very pretty book, beautiful book.
Uh, you know, uh like In spite of you. In spite of me. Quotes from uh bar people and bartenders and bar owners, plus you know, Jim's insight uh from years in the business, plus recipes. Super pretty book, super awesome. Uh I would check that out.
Anyway, so Peter, what do you want the show to uh put push out here? No, well, we've got a lot of good programming going on at the museum. We had uh Nathan Miervold last week. It's too late for that. It's over.
Okay, okay, we got stuff coming up. It's over. I tell them about crap they already missed. All right, fine. So we have mean.
The time it's taking for you to interrupt me and harangue me is basically, yeah. I mean, anyway. So uh we've got a natural wine tasting this evening at the museum. Tell them what natural wine means. Well, it's I basically relying on natural.
Wait, you think he doesn't know? No, I think that's not a good thing. No, I think it's one of those words that like we all kind of know what it means, but it really has no meaning. Right. Anyway, so go ahead.
Yeah, sir. Anyway, uh we have a program on Chilean gastronomy with uh chef Rodolfo Guzmán uh tomorrow. What about what what what's going on with that? What's the one? So he's got the he's he's one of the top chefs in Chile, and he's gonna be talking about this new book he just released.
We have some recipes we're doing from that, some cool stuff. Um we've got a food trivia thing next week and a program on the cuisine of Istanbul. Oh, food trivia? Like what kind of food trivia? Can you do a banana grams night?
That's a food. Well, I don't know. You can't have only banana. Yeah, but can't have banana grams or just about food. How do you limit it to food?
Yeah, because it's a banana gram. Oh, that's region stuff. No, let's wait for the new bar to wait for the new bar to open, and you can come have your banana gram tournament. The whole thing. So, what's this trivia thing?
What is this? Is this like a we do a trivia thing once a month now? It's been really successful. So it's about Istanbul? Who makes it?
No, no, separate. So our staff does. So it's not food trivia about Istanbul, which would also be a good thing. No, no, no. We have a food trivia thing.
You should use a little bit of a marks game. They have all the trivia food questions in there. All of them. Every single one of the things. Every single one you can ever think of.
They paid a lot of money for it. I'll give it to you. Uh then we have one uh program on the cuisine of Istanbul. What about it? There's a woman in Robin Eckertz.
She had a cuisine on the sorry, a book on the diverse cuisines of Turkey. And so regional cuisines, life in the villages, cities, farms, and high pastures of the lesser known provinces throughout Turkey. What's she gonna make? Is she gonna make some stuff or is she talking about it? I don't know if there's gonna be food at this one.
I have to say, I really I like I wish I could go back to Istanbul. I really, really, really loved the food there. I thought it was really good. Yeah. Um and then we have uh our friend Jeffrey Porter from Batalia and Bastian's hospitality group doing a Kianti wine tasting.
By the way, uh anything he does, he's gonna bring wacky crap that you can't have anywhere else. Or he's gonna at least yeah, that that's been my experience with him. He always has interesting stuff coming in, so you want to check out whatever he's doing. Yeah, so if you go to programs.mofad.org, you can find all that and get tickets. And how like how much do those tickets cost, roughly?
Uh it's a good thing. What's the range? It's so over and under, Peter. I like 10 to 30, 35. So basically, like less than it should cost.
So it's basically a bargain. You should go to these things. Absolutely. Yeah. Peter.
Dave. All right. So uh for the oh, you if you have questions, you can call them in to 7184972128. That's 7184972128. Next week we will not be here, Nastasia, because I will be in China.
I will be at the Canton Fair trying to research uh suppliers for the next product that's coming out. Uh, you know, post spinzall. Uh it'll be what is a moisture management system. That's my whole life is moisture management system. That's my whole life.
So, Stas, what do you think? Like uh year and a half, the next one? Um, sure. You shoot for a year and a half on the next one. And it'll actually be three.
If it's three years, I will not bring it up. Write this down, chat room. I will not be alive if it's three years. Realistically, uh if it takes three years, I will not be alive. Are you gonna go delp on us?
One can hope. Uh no, I would never hibachi myself. What? You're supposed to be happy by 50. That's four years.
Yeah, so ish. Alright. I'll never be happy though. That's a lie. Like you tell yourself it's gonna get better.
That's true. I want to not be dealing with some of the crap that I have to deal with on a regular basis. Anyway, uh this is Nick, Nick Wong wrote it. Yet Nastasia and Peter were pointing to themselves when I was saying I just don't want to have to deal with some of the crap that I currently have to deal with. They're like, he means us?
I'm like, not just you guys. Uh Nick wrote in. Uh and and a shout out to Nastasia, to myself, to Dave in the booth, and if he's there, also to Peter of overcooked and underseasoned. Oh yes. We talked about that on the air, right?
Just say it one more time. Peter Kim goes to guest. Peter Kim, guest, not even paying for his own food. Dave, did I mention he wasn't even paying for his own food was being paid for? Oh no, I know.
But listen, if if I say yum, then you know I mean yum. If I laugh at a comedy show, you know I find it funny. Family show. Freaking. Yeah.
And then uh no, but Peter Kim's this guy, this kid. How do you like our favorite restaurant? Overcooked and underseasoned. The lights dim. Everybody stops eating classic.
Classic Kim. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like even bringing out all the hits to the case. You know what the thing is, Nastasia, like Nastasia does bring out the worst in Peter, though.
It's true. It's true. Like Peter. There's this dark energy that flows from her. Well, you know what it is?
Because it's like all the small talk and pleasantries that you do with people to be nice. It's like around Nastasia feels ridiculous. Because she hates that. She hates it. Well I can tell that you're not being you.
Yeah. Well, no, no, that's not the case. Anyway. Um. So uh he writes in, Nick, this is Nick.
Always had this issue when dealing with dry aged beef. We would get in the uh 109 ribeye. So 109 ribeye is a specific like uh cut. So it's a uh, you know, it's a a cut you can order that's one of the standard US cuts, the 109, it's the whole kind of ribeye with a certain kind of trim on it. Anyway, uh we would get in the 109 ribeyes, and after trimming off uh um dry age them, after trimming off all the desiccated parts and portioning them, the two steaks on either end would inevitably be a little more dried out.
Not really an issue to cook the portions from the middle, but the end pieces after being cooked to proper temp would look to be undercooked and show more of a rare color. It didn't happen every single time, but it happened enough to pique my interest. I'm guessing it's an issue with the air interacting with the myoglobin on the end pieces, but I'm not sure. I know the steaks have been cooked to the appropriate temperature, but sometimes it's hard to explain that to a guest that it's actually okay. Uh you suggested covering with fat during aging, but I don't have control over the meat during that process.
Is there any way to try and control uh that a little better, uh besides flashing the sliced meat in the oven to manipulate the color? Meat uh is not cooked to low temp or in a bag. Huh. That's a really interesting problem. So you know, I've done like a lot of work with the color temperature of meat, uh sorry, the m the the color of meat cooked to to particular temperatures in bags and out bags, but I've never thought about the um end-to-end variation based on dry aging.
I I I don't know what it is. It could be that it could be the lower moisture content is doing something, or it could be something you're saying. Typically, exposure to more oxygen would make it look less rare. In other words, like even long-term uh exposure to oxygen would make it look less rare than it would uh otherwise, because you would either be um you know you wouldn't be well, exposure to more oxygen would cause it to be in an oxidized state, which would be redder, true, but would denature faster than if it was in a deoxygenated state, so it would look cooked faster. That's just been my experience.
But I don't know, it's an interesting problem. I would like to hear from anyone else out there whether they've noticed this, whether uh dry age meat tends to, and the more the more dry it is, whether it tends to um uh take longer to lose its uh rare color. It's interesting problem. I have to think about it. Might be a moisture issue.
What do you think? Any any of you guys, not your forte, but you have any thoughts on this? Forte. I'd like to talk about air quality. You're a low-quality individual, Peter.
Uh what I meant was it's an unrelated thing. If you like if you if you're talking about sandwiches, like, is it a book about like meats? Is it a book about cheeses? Is it a book about vegetable toppings? Is it a book about the main problem of sandwiches, which is people uh making them too freaking dry or not getting the bread to uh product ratio uh correct, or using a bread that's too crusty for the sandwich that they have involved so that you sit there chewing on it and like can't even get the the bolus of bread down?
Is that what the book's about? No, it's about bread. Now, I'm sure they dealt with the best varieties of bread for a sandwich. Maybe they had a couple sandwiches in there. That would be a section on sandwich, it would not be a section on a sandwich, it would be a section on sandwich bread.
Do the pe you know, the people who make sandwich bread, do they make sandwiches? No. I feel like the cooking issue site needs to have a little barometer of the Dave irritation level. And Dave, Nick just texted and said that he's still waiting to hear Jen on the show. And we've all been waiting.
And he said it's been two years in the making. So well, invite her on. I mean, she's busy, she's working. You know what I mean? But you know, she's doing architecture work.
But uh, you know, yeah, we'll invite we'll invite her on. Maybe she can redesign the studio. Uh yeah, with the big budget that we have anyway. Pizza. Um free pizza, that's what we're paying for architecture in.
Yeah. Pizza. Erin writes in on sterilizing. Uh for the census, I'm 28 male married, and I have an immersion circulator. I've listened to your show since before the long break in the podcast.
When was that? We had like a couple weeks' break? That was in August, which is normal. Um, can you let everybody know that the Sears all's on back order? We'll talk about that in a minute.
Bring it up afterwards. Oh, Jesus honest. It's not, it's not. It's not. Um fake news.
Fake news. Fake news. No one called anyone a moron. Fake news. Love the show.
The question might fall into the category of cooking adjacent or perhaps just issues. My wife and I are expecting our first child around Thanksgiving. Hey, congratulations. Awesome. Um while doing research on bottle sterilizers in big quotes, I found out that they're simply steamers with no pressurization.
Coming from a lab, the term sterilization probably means something different than to uh home applications. No, it doesn't. If you're buying a sterilizer at home, a real one, right? Like the one that if you like, let's say you live out in the middle of nowhere and have to perform surgery on yourself or like dental equipment, those are real pressure sterilizers and pressure canners are also can be rigged up as uh sterilizers. But there are people out there who at home take sterilization seriously and for real, and those people get real sterilizers.
Anyone that calls a uh steamer, a sterilizer is a low-quality individual. What they must mean is that steaming is enough to kill whatever is going to be on a bottle because it's not going to, it's not, they're not planning on having uh spore-forming bacteria that can um, you know, and you're not planning on keeping stuff in uh in an anoxic environment. So you're that's must mean what they uh what they mean. But that yeah, no, normal people outside of a lab, when they say sterilize, should mean sterilize and not just pasteurize and or kill vegetative cells. And I hate it when people don't use those kinds of terms precisely because someday someone's gonna get killed.
Anyway, uh my question if baby bottle sterilizer is simply a steaming compartment, what would keep me from spending this money on, say, a nice big all-clad pot with tiered steaming basket, which I could then use for one uh steaming uh making pasta, two steamed buns, three steamed veggies, and four baby bottles. Am I a bad future father for wanting a nice new kitchen thing so close to the birth of my firstborn? No. No, I mean, look, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something, Aaron.
Your your life's about to change rather dramatically, so buy yourself something now. Like buy yourself something now. As long as you're not gonna bankrupt yourself, yeah, get a nice pot. Like, why would you want something that's just pe like baby stuff is you already have to buy a bunch of like, you know, like very specific baby stuff if you're gonna be um having a kid. Like I'm sure, I don't know, but like if you're anything like uh, you know, we were you're gonna have to buy this expensive, you know, pump, breast pump, you have to buy all this stuff anyway, right?
So why not get yourself something as long as you have the cat? What do you think, Stuzz? Don't know, don't care. You don't care? Why do you not care?
Because I don't have kids. Oh, so you can't see this is nostalgia. No empathy for empathy. Yeah. This is what this is like I have no empathy for people.
That's what you think is. No, I don't care about this subject, actually. What the hell is wrong with you? I don't know. I just I feel nothing for you.
Wow. I'm telling you the truth. This nostalgia's like this, I hope they know that people like this is the kind of what you had to do. Somebody is having a baby, right? Why is it that to do with just having a baby?
You can't have any empathy for anyone going through a change in their life at all. Even just because you have to live with a bunch of people your age who are having babies and you are sick of hearing of their babies, you can't have empathy even like for someone that you don't have to sit and listen to their story because they're not actually in the room with you. I could fake empathy right now. You want me to do that? Oh, jeez.
But you see how the overcooked and underseason came out. I mean, this this is the this is the the the vortex of evil right here. Right. Right. You can't help but get sucked into that.
And I say treat yourself. Oh my god, treat yourself. Is that a reference from uh Parkson registration? Uh registration. Parkson, yeah, good.
Treat yourself. Peggy wrote in, hey team, quick question. Will it spin? Will the spins all turn yogurt into instant lobne? Well, not instant, it takes about 15 minutes.
But yes, you can do it. Uh it's one of my favorite applications for the spinzall. Um you just gotta be careful when you uh load when you load it in. If it wobbl it's gonna wobble as it starts up. If it wobbles too much, it'll go into flashing mode.
You might need to start it a couple of times, but yeah, it's one of my favorite uh applications. Wait, seriously. What is Oh wait, yeah, Nick Wong is on the chat room and he wants to know if the C R Zol is on back order. Nick. Wait, Peter, what were you gonna ask?
Oh no, no, I'd actually want to hear about the Sears all being on back order. It's not on freaking back order. I think I'd like to know the story too. Wait, back order something. Okay, so people, once and for all, I'm gonna say this one more freaking time.
Here's how this works. Booker and Dax, Equipment Corporation, came up with produced the spinzole. Sorry, Searsol. Torch attachment. Turns your torch into a handheld broiler.
Awesome for parties. Blah, blah, blah. Okay. Booker and Dax owned them and sold them on Amazon for a couple of years. Amazon.com approached us and said, Hey, Booker and Dax, we are uh trying to get into the uh low temperature sous-vide cooking space, and we're going to push your product, and so we want to buy them in bulk, and we will just pay you for the whole load net 90 days.
And you will make less money, but we're gonna sell a lot more of them. They lied because they don't really care about it. And by the way, they're Amazon's amazing to deal with as a customer, but as a as a vendor, they're like uh a nightmare, complete nightmare to deal with. Such that like, like if someone calls you from Amazon and says we want to sell your product, just be aware that the minute that person hangs up the phone, they have quit. And another three people have entered their job, right?
And then when you call a person again and try to get another person on the phone, as soon as you have hung up the phone, that person has quit. And there will be another person who picks up the phone. Somebody told me from Amazon, one thing, and I called back to say this guy told me this one thing, and they said he has been erased. Yeah, and we're not talking, by the way, people, I know what you're thinking. I know what you're thinking.
We're not calling the call center. We're talking about Amazon Corporate is calling us. Not Amazon's like call center where it's like, you know, uh a thousand levels of separation between them and Bezos. There should be like a levels of separation between the person you're speaking to and Beezos. By Bezos number, yeah, my Bezos number is is 85.
Yeah. I have 85 reports between Bezos and myself. And by the way, 30 of those reports are a computer program. Right. So like it's but let's make it clear.
Amazon owns these Sears alls. We cannot go into an Amazon thing and take them out. No, Amazon physically owns them. So Nastasi and I made the horrible mistake, which we will never make again, of not owning any of them ourselves. Every single existing Searsol that is not personally owned by a person right now is owned by Amazon.com.
Amazon has in their warehouse 2,500 of them. Okay? They have another 4,000 in their possession on a boat that they own that is traveling on the ocean from China. Right now. Right now.
Okay. They own 4,000. They've already been handed to them. They are on their boat. They own 2,500 that are in their warehouse.
Yet their computer thinks that if they start selling them, they will eventually run out. And so they do not want to sell them. And it's been this way for several months. Too long, didn't read Cyrus Alzheimer Backorder. Peter Cameron.
Peter Camp. Now what were you gonna ask me for? No, no, I was just gonna ask for your definition of instantaneous then. Instantaneous in-that's not the answer to that question. Yeah.
Instance. 15 minutes. 15 minutes, right. So instantaneous. Yeah, so what's your what's your window on instant?
I mean, I mean, are we talking in cooking, instant means like 30 seconds. That's instant. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like by the the time it takes you to perform an operation and you can't perform another operation because this one happens so fast, that's instant.
Anything that's longer than that is not instant. In geologic time, it's instant. You know what I mean? But in cooking time, 15 minutes is not instant. It's fast.
You know what I mean? Faster than going to the store, especially because your store probably doesn't have that product. But anyway. Uh do you disagree? Huh?
That's fair. Nastasia doesn't care because it has to do with other people's palaces. That's not true. I I care about this one. Well, yeah.
Elizabeth Wells writes in. Uh I hope this is the correct email. It is. Um how much fat is absorbed by food of uh various slash any type, but specifically regarding meat, when cooking sous vide. I'm sure temperature plays a part, but there are there any generalities one can make.
I'm a personal chef and occasionally have clients who are overly concerned about such nutritional issues. Well, the good news is meats absorb on a scale of like they don't but they absorb practically nothing. They absorb practically no uh fat uh at all. And in fact, if you dry it off, like almost nothing. They have very few crevices.
Now, things that are battered, things that are breaded, things that are porous, like veggies, these things absorb oil like the end of the world is coming. But uh, which it might be. But the uh yeah, meats have very, very little fat absorption. They're very little uh is actually uh sticking to it, and a lot of it has to do with whether you tell it off, and you're more likely to um add more when you're doing a sear off than is happening with it. So it's not affecting the the nutritional um value of it that way, I would say, at all.
Peter, do you have an end of the world plan? No. My end of the world world plan? Uh I can't talk about my end of the world plan. Why not?
You don't want other people to gangster. No, it's it's it's scary. What is it? Why would it be? I'm not gonna tell you about it.
You're just gonna drink yourself to what is it? No. I there's two people. There's one the ones that are proactive, like you and I, and then there's the ones that drink themselves to death. Yeah.
I mean look, how's the end coming? What's that? No, well, there's there's there's there's two, there's yeah, there's two, there's two scenarios, right? There's the problem with the nuclear scenario is that it's a 15-minute problem maximum. Right, you got no time.
Right? So the only answer is to hope that they miss by a little bit and to get into a subway station if you live in New York City, right? I mean, you know, you don't have time to get out, nothing. You know what I mean? Uh what's but if you're if it's not nuclear, like nuclear.
I think the real thing is reading the warning signs and just you know getting the heck out of a concentrated area. You know what I mean? Before mass panic ensues. I should not talk about this. This is like a bad when I was a kid.
When I was a kid, I assumed, I assumed. In fact, I didn't want to live in New York City when I was a kid, because I assumed we would die in a nuclear holocaust. This was during uh, you know, Cold War times. That was my assumption, my base assumption. I would sit as a kid with a compass because I was one of those kids that liked using compasses, and I would draw radius maps around like lower Manhattan and figure out where like my house was in New Jersey, then look up the blast radius of various size hydrogen bombs, and be like, oh, you know, I'm dead.
And then my dad was like, don't worry. They have these things called MERVs. And so what happens is they actually just send a ring of hydrogen bombs around your whole city. So actually the blast radius is much larger than your calculating. It's like, thanks, Dad.
Thanks for that. One of the things you told me is it's gonna happen on a clear day without a cloud in the sky, because that's the whole thing, and there was that cloud in the thing, but then they bombed Nakala. Oh, in the real life. So in the real life, when you know the United States was the, you know, dropped nuclear weapons on um on Nagasaki, there the original target was another town, Nigata, and they flew over it, and they had very strict orders to they wanted a visual um read on it, and they wanted to be able to like you know photograph everything and they wanted visual run on the bomb site. So there was a cloud, literally a cloud, over the actual uh target site.
And they did a couple passes over the town, and the cloud cover didn't clear over that one site, and so because of that, it was not the city that got bombed. Nagasaki was a city that got bombed. Crazy, huh? You're forever gonna think about that. Isn't that weird?
Wait, so Peter, what are you gonna do? Nick Wong says he's gonna pull a delp. Oh, too long, Nick. You gotta light a hibachi. That's true.
No, he says Peter's gonna pull a delp. Oh. Peter would be sitting there lighting a hibachi and trying to jam the stuff when the thing hits. It's too late. Besides, if you're gonna go in a big ball of fire, like might as well not do smoke inhalation.
Might as well taste delicious. Anyway, I uh I'm uh you know, get I'm a I'm gonna try to survive at all costs, kind of. Well, of course. I mean, I thought you meant you know the world is gonna end. But there's a chance they can miss.
There's lots of things that could happen. Uh yeah, then survive, of course. At all costs. Well, most of Nastasia's friends are go to the roof of the building with a drink. Anyway.
On that note, should we take a quick break? Let's take a break, we'll come back with fewer nuclear warriors. Apocalypse issues. Bob's red mill has been milling whole grains since 1978. When you mill whole grains, you get all three parts the bran, the germ, and the endosperm.
The bran, or the rough edge, makes up about 14% of the whole grain. It's the outer skin of the edible kernel. It contains large amounts of B vitamins, some protein, trace minerals, phytochemicals, but most importantly, dietary fiber. The germ is only about 2.5% of the kernel. It's actually the sprouting section of the seed, what's gonna grow into a plant.
It's usually separated during milling process because it contains most of the fat and therefore has a shorter shelf life. The endosperm is the main energy storage unit of the seed. That's where the growing plant gets its energy before it can start photosynthesizing and making its own. It makes up a huge portion of the grain, about 83%. And it's the main source that's used for white flour.
When you make white flour, you get rid of the germ and the bran and just have the white endosperm left. It contains almost all the carbohydrates. It also contains protein and iron and some of the other B vitamins as well. It's kind of what you classically think of when you're thinking of flour. So all that's there when you're milling with whole grains, but when you mill with whole grains, you also get the bran, which is the kind of rough edge and gives the that's what gives that that kind of color to it.
Also gives you extra fiber that uh helps you to be regular, and you also get the germ, which adds the fat and the flavor, which we all like from whole grains. Learn more at Bob'sRedmill.com/slash podcast. Boof, poof, poof, boop, poof, k. So Nathan uh Mirvald had some interesting things to say about uh bran. He was saying that like it actually is like better at at uh reducing the volume of uh bread than anything else.
And he including broken glass. Broken glass, well, and fiberglass, and like ball bearings, uh they tested when they were doing it. So I can't wait to read the read the book. Should be interesting. He also put the smack down on any nutritional claimed nutritional benefits from whole grains.
Oh, shocking. Wait, Nathan Mirvald was against if a false nutritional claim. Shocking, shocking. Um yeah, no, they're they're you know, uh a lot yeah, that whole crew is like that. Anyway, uh, but wait, so what were we talking about?
Oh, we have a we have a caller, right? End of the world. Oh yeah, there's calling. All right, call her. Hopefully, this is not an end of the world question, but if it is, we'll take it.
Uh well, let's let's just keep hoping that people avoid the big red button. Yeah. Uh but um so my you were just talking about Mirvil's new book. I actually have a uh bread question. All right.
Uh I am I have finally arrived at a sourdough bread recipe that my wife actually likes. But I'm trying to get a little more lift in it. So what what did she not like about other sourdoughs, and what does she like about this one? Um what I did with this one, um I actually just used the pizza pizza dough. I've been messing with another recipe for forever, and it and she just never liked it.
I mean, I tried more of this, less of that, every iteration of it you could think of. And it never worked. But so um she's liked my sourdough pizza dough recipe for a very long time. So I just put that put that in a bread pan, let it rise and baked it, and it actually came out really good. Okay, but you just want more lift out of it?
I just want more lift. How sour is it? It is it is sort of medium sour. The recipe calls for an enormous amount of actual sourdough. Right.
Um, and if your sourdough is um perk is perking well, it will um uh it will raise it then in a matter of like three or four hours. Right. I mean the the issue obviously, so if it's pizza dough, it's probably uh a fairly high hydration, right? And the other issue with it is is that if it's the so more sour it is, the kind of more slack it's gonna be because the um acidity is going to um the acidity is going to weaken the gluten structure, right? So I'm guessing it's some combination of of those things.
Um I don't know whether I don't know how strong a flour you're using, but I would maybe move to a a stronger flour. Uh like try to, but if you like the flavor, you like the flavor. So the acidity level kind of i is what it is what it is. I would move to a stronger flour and or maybe dope it with um with gluten, see whether that is helpful um to get more uh rise out of it, mess with the hydration a little bit. It's been a long time since I've noodled with those things myself with my own hands.
It's you know, for the past I haven't been baking seriously in probably 10, you know, 12 years, probably since when Dax was born. Pizzas, yes, but like I don't I mean, pizza is serious business. I don't want anyone to get mad at me about it, but in terms of like um, you know, Steingarton used to say the crust is the most important part of a pizza, everything else is just garbage. But the uh he said that. I mean, I don't think he's necessarily 100% right.
But it it's structurally easier to get a pizza, obviously, because you don't need the rise and lift and all that stuff. Uh any I don't know, does anyone in chat room have any advice on this, Dave? Uh I'll check and get back to you. We'll check. But I would try I would try those things.
In general, I think uh, you know, getting a nice uh high lift out of a sourdough can be somewhat challenging the more sour it is just because of the acidities effect on the gluten. Epoxy method is being suggested. Wait, hey Siri. Oh my god. I know, I I was wondering.
My phone thought I was asking it a question, and so it's about the end of the world. No, about gluten. Siri was looking something up on the web, nothing. She as usual, she found nothing of interest. At my brother's wedding, my mom was going off in the car and was like, I can't take your father.
I can't take I can't do it. And I guess Siri was listening and she said, When you can't, you can't. Really? My mom was like, what? Really?
Did your did your mom erase Siri off the phone? No, isn't that weird though? Yeah. Oh, by the way, yeah, Nastasia was uh in Portland for a wedding. How do you think?
Joey's wedding. Good. That's her brother. How was the how was the food? Good.
What was the food? It was uh pasta and short ribs and mashed potatoes. Double starch? Double starch. Pasta and mashed potatoes.
Yeah. You made fun of me endlessly for a double purchase. That's normal with my brother because he doesn't eat stuff. Doesn't like condiments, doesn't like lots of stuff. That was big in Cameroon.
You get dishes where it's spaghetti, rice, and then tubers. Wow. A little saucy. Starch on starch on starch. Yeah, it's right.
But with Nastasi, what do you get mad at me for? Protein on protein? A chicken breast and a hard boiled egg for dinner. What's wrong with that? So that's the chicken and the chicken.
It's chicken, two forms of chicken. What's wrong with that? It's weird. And it's one of those things. Salad is mayo and chicken.
It's chicken bound with itself. By the way, Peter loves a gas station egg salad sandwich. Oh, I do. So back to the sourdough for a second. How is it?
So if we go to the side. So wait, so do you think any of these things are going to help you? Well, I mean, the um, I mean, the gluten thing is really easy to try. I keep gluten around because I I put it in my um noodles. I I have a uh a Phillips noodle machine that just makes really, really good uh ramen noodles.
It can be um a little difficult with like softer noodles, but uh with a really high protein uh mix in it, it just makes beautiful stuff. Yeah, I would try for the higher I mean like I've never done uh I've never tried to get around the fact that sourdough has like uh reduces the um uh like the strength of the gluten by adding more, but I mean it's like something I would try. The other thing, obviously, is doing less pitch, so pitching less of the sourdough into it. Um and obviously you'll have a less sour tasting uh bread, but the structure of the bread's gonna the less so the less sourdough starter you use, and the fresher the sourdough is, right? So in other words, like if you if you had an old sourdough that had a like a lot of acidity versus like you know um like refreshing it and building it over the course of a couple of days by you know a a couple of additions and um and doublings before you did it in will kind of lower the acidity, increase the um activity of it, and then you'll have to pitch less, you'll have a longer rise time, but it'll be a slower, uh a less acidic product, and that'll have better structure because the more sourdough you have in there with the old uh product in it, the kind of more it's not just the gluten's gonna be uh, you know, um weaker, but like everything's been kind of eaten, eaten down a little bit.
Um and so I would bet uh the less of the starter you add, the kind of better your your overall uh end structure will be. But if your wife doesn't like the taste of it that way, then she doesn't like the taste of it that way. You know what I'm saying? Well, the times this has succeeded, it was with very, very fresh starter that I've been feeding twice a day religiously for a week. Yeah, right, because it's you know, it doesn't because that it's new product.
So your your your bugs are going great, but you haven't broken down the substrate that much, right? I mean that's like the you know, so that's like a key, but that's kind of a pain unless you're baking every day. It's kind of a pain in the butt, you know what I mean? Well, it is, and I mean I'll I'll keep it going for two weeks and then I'll lose it, and then it takes it takes it five days to you know really reboot, right? And that's just sort of a little cycle in my existence.
Right, I know, and I think that's why most people tend to use instead of like actual sourdough, I think most people who don't can't do it every day, tend to do more the um like very small amount of yeast, very long rise time, uh, you know, kind of an approach um instead, just because it's easier to predict a day before you're gonna bake than it is to predict like you know, a week before you're gonna bake. You know what I mean? Well, and I and I and I've experimented with that endlessly. And she it she likes it as she likes pizza when I do it that way. She does not like bread when I do it that way.
Anyway, we should all read me we'll all read the modernist bread book and uh we'll revisit it when we can when I finally get a hold of it. That's on my Christmas wish list, I can assure you. Otherwise, anybody will buy it for me, not maybe another question. Well, you know, I don't know what Amazon's gonna sell for. 560, uh what do you think they're gonna sell it for?
Like 400? 300 and change? Wiley's book is a $75. I think it's gonna be an Amazon at like $50. I don't know.
Who knows what is an Amazon basketball? I'm afraid to ask. Yeah. Um two quick comments on some things that have been on the show recently. You had a guy talk about making stock in an American pressure canner.
Right. I do that semi-regularly. And by far the best way I have found to make chicken stock in it, especially from a yield perspective, is to put nothing in it but chicken feet and water. Oh, you like d the chicken feet? It's like a hypergelatinous uh and it and and then pressure cook it to death.
I mean, like for at least like an hour and a half. I usually go two plus. You you don't have to brown anything, you don't have to mess with anything. It's just just put it in and cook it. I will try that.
Yeah. And the other the great thing about it is that I get a higher yield than anything else I've tried that produces a stock that good. What are the chicken feet look like when they're done? Can you even dry them and fry them, or are they so gone that you can't even dry them and fry them? I have I have not I have not tried, but I mean you know, two hours at 15 PSI, they're pretty they're pretty far gone.
Yeah, yeah. I I'm a fan of the pressure cooked, dried and fried chicken feet. The feet don't tend to reabsorb a lot of the moisture. When I make when I make it with random bits, I've accumulated in the freezer or for or with whole chickens, which I do sometime when I'm in a when I just like need a batch. It seems like I don't get enough volume of stock back out of the total mix.
Like too much of it stays in the meat. The chicken feet, that problem just disappears. I will try it. I like I like chicken feet. You know who loves chicken feet?
Booker. Nice. He's back on eating chicken. It's the original chicken finger. Do you like chicken feet, Peter?
Yeah, I like chicken feet. You know what you have you ever had the pressure cooked ones? Um don't know. I mean, the advantage of the pressure cooked one is you just eat it. You don't have you're not stripping it off or like gumming the stuff off.
You're just eating the whole damn thing. Okay, I haven't done. The problem with it is that pressure cooked bones, even when they're edible, my issue with them is they still have that little bit of a kind of a calcium-y thing. Do you like that? Yeah, I like bones.
Really? Booker likes bones too. Alright, hold on. I got another question from can I just make an amount announcement? Oh my god.
Like I've said many times before, one question when you call in. One question. This is the hammer. This is the fish. Or we end up on hammer phones.
This isn't a phone call, a personal phone call with Dave. This is a show. Oh my god. Nastasia's just like in a mean mood all day. Do you want do you want multiple questions?
I'm sorry. Do you want multiple questions? Nastasia's like jumping on me. Do you want to do that? Multiple methods.
Let me finish this question, multiple question lady. I recently made Kenji's, uh, that would be Kenji Lopez Alts, Ribolita three times for clients of mine. Uh the first and third time I didn't use Parmesan rind, but the second time I did. What are your thoughts on Parmesan rind, Peter? Uh Parmesan rind.
Parmigiano Reggiano rind of cheese. In my mind, that's probably not the best part of the cheese to be using. Well, that's what they use it for soups typically. Yeah, but you know, it's kind of like dioxidated flavor, too. Does Cesar Chesrae do that shit?
Stuff? Don't know. Uh anyway. Uh the first and third times I did not use the rhyme, the second time I did. That time the finished soup smelled overwhelmingly of vomit.
Like straight up cheese vomit. Uh I stored it in core containers and left it for the client anyway, crossing my fingers. I returned to that client's house two weeks later, two weeks later, to find a container of the soup still in the fridge, and the vomit smell was gone, and there were no client complaints. So I think I'm good. The ingredients were practically identical all three times I made it, other than the rind.
The uh uh Parmigiano rind sold in a package of many rinds together, didn't have any off smells. I've used other rinds uh in the package in other preparations with no vomit smell or anything odd. What gives? Thanks so much, uh Elizabeth Wells. Uh, you know what?
I think I think it a lot of things that are breakdown products can go vomity, especially I think if there's kind of uh acidity in it, so it gets that kind of vomity note. I think a lot of, I don't know if you had acid in the in the ribolito or if this one was particularly a little more acidic, but like cheese, especially very high breakdown cheeses, which Parmigiano is because it's aged for a long time, has a lot of protein breakdown in it. Um uh fat breakdown, all of that's like can give you some vomity smells. Uh do you have the Nastassi? What are your thoughts on cheese vomit?
She actually has a smile on her face thinking about cheese vomit. She's got oh she's she's got that. She's got that murdering everyone smile. Nastasia's got a Nastasia has a smile on her face. That if you see the smile on her face, it means she's contemplating everyone's death.
Maybe Dave wants multiple questions on the calls. No, you weren't, you know, you were thinking I'm gonna murder all these people. Nastasia's got the whatever. But uh butyric acid. That's the um cheesy vomity chemical.
Yeah, yeah. Known in the flavor industry as having both the cheesy and vomity note. Wait, what's well what are you what are you grumbling over, Nastasia? Nothing. Wow.
Wow. Wow. Yeah, Stas's rules. Number one, I don't care. Number two, I do care.
Only one question. Yeah. Uh okay. So uh Tom, and I'm gonna pronounce it exactly as though there's another Tom who wrote in a charcuterie question, but we'll get that when we're adding. This is what this is, Nastasia.
If you like, let me get to it. Uh but uh Tom also wrote in a charcuterie question, but I'm saving that. Johnny Hunter wrote in and said he'd be willing to do a charcuterie show. We should get, you know, him and maybe someone, but should we wait for him to be in New York City or should we do it over the phone? It's better when they're here.
Alright, so we'll wait for him to be in New York City. So next time Johnny's in the city, we'll we'll do something. So Tom, and this is how you pronounce his name, Mel Yuransa. See? Uh hope this is the right email address.
It is. Uh one of the best things I've ever done with a bird in the kitchen is Ken Hom's Chinese American turkey with rice and sausage stuffing. Uh even though the meat came out a little dry, the rice stuffing is freaking awesome. I'd like to make a chicken version of this disc and I want to optimize it. Whenever I see optimize now, because we've been talking about vomit, I see vomitize instead of optimized, but they're different words.
Nice. Optimize, vomitize. Uh optimize it. Ideally, I want nice rendered skin, moist meat, and tons of that delicious stuffing cooked to a safe temp, but I'm not sure how to make it happen. I'm thinking of boning or is it deboning the bird before stuffing it would uh look cool and allow for more stuffing, uh, avoiding Hom's tricky step of stuffing the rice under the skin.
I have a circulator and I'd be open to ordering some meat glue if you think that might be helpful. Anyway, what would you do if you were meat? Do you ever do rice stuffings, Peter? Oh. Just because I'm Korean American, come on.
Of course. No. No. Why don't you ask me? I used to make because you don't like cooking this kind of stuff.
You don't cook whole birds. Yeah, you do like cold chickens. Well, you do? I do. Really?
You ever do like a rice stuffing? No. You ever make dolmas? Nope. So I think you ever make dolmas, Peter?
No, they're made dolmas. Dolmas are delicious. Although I do wonder what other uses of grape leaves there are. Grape leaves, you know, like Greek grape leaves. That's the only thing I know in the world that uses grape leaves.
And you can do like the rice and meat. Is that the same thing? Yeah. Anyway, the point is that if you're looking at the recipe, the way it's been the way it's done is that the duck is steamed with the rice in it. And the rice is like soaks up some flavoring from the mixture, but also it's steamed as though rice is.
And so like you can steam regular rice, you can steam sticky rice, although sticky rice always is steamed this way. And if you do uh if you're gonna do a chicken, you don't want it to get as cooked, right? On the steam aspect, I think you could probably, if you were gonna like keep it open or bone, steam it from underneath and get it to steam, but I would cook the rice almost through and stuff it hot. I think that's the that's the kind of uh key, is almost cooking the rice through with the flavors and then put it in and then letting it gather the last of its juices from the chicken on the inside. And I think that would be kind of the major win.
So the reason I brought this before is if you're making dolmas, like you can uh parcook or you can like uh pre-fry the rice and then get some absorption in and stuff it in kind of parcooked. I think that might be the way to way to do it. It's gonna take a little fiddling around to figure out exactly how much so that it's not like totally overcooked, but that's uh that's kind of a good way to go. I gotta wrap it up. Wrap it up.
Uh all right. Well, we got we got questions on the spinz all, we'll get to uh later, I guess. In that's not all back order, right? No. No, it's not.
Well, it's right now it's available only on Modernist Pantry. Uh do they have their units in it's in the units are in the country. Are they shipping? No, I don't think live yet. They'll be shipping live within probably a week or so.
Uh the units are in the country, and then we're getting the next big order in sometime at the end of uh October. But yeah, keep on spinning, cooking issues. Nice. Thanks for listening to Heritage Radio Network. Food radio supported by you.
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