This episode of Cooking Issues is brought to you by Bob's Redmill, an employee-owned company that has been offering organic stone ground products for decades. With Bob's Red Mill, you're not just getting quality, you're getting flavor-packed, healthy food that tastes great. Visit Bob'sRedmill.com to learn more and use the code CookingIssues. That's one word, all caps, cooking issues for 25% off your order. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network.
We're a member supported food radio network, broadcasting over 35 weekly shows live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. Join our hosts as they lead you through the world of craft brewing, behind the scenes of the restaurant industry, inside the battle over school food, and beyond. Find us at heritageradio network.org. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 on where are we?
Anyway, Roberta Spizzaria in Bushwick Brooklyn. Joined as usual. Well, that was a fast cutoff in the clap there. Yeah, well, they're very disciplined. Well.
Well, McGall will do you first, Dave. Dave in the booth with the with the fast clap. What up? How you doing? Good.
How about you? I'm doing all right. Uh last week I was in Denver, right? We could talk about that. Uh to visit a dispensary.
Uh I did not, in fact, uh deliver a sp uh uh sorry, visit a dispensary. Uh, as you may or may not know, uh, I am not a uh user of marijuana. I I have no problem with it. It's just uh it's never been my thing. I'm more of a liquor guy.
Now I know people who are very, very fond of it. Uh, and it is a fantastic place to go. Are you a dispensary person? No. Really?
It's like when it becomes legal here, will you use it? Maybe. I don't know. I gotta find the right kind, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. Uh, and got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing? Good. Yeah?
Good. So uh we have some uh interesting things to talk about. Uh first of all, today, to today the f well, Bob's Redmill just signed on to uh do more um what's it called uh sponsorship of the of the radio program, right? Love those guys. Love the Bob's red mill.
As we've said many times, it is not Bob's mill that is red, it is Bob's red mill. There it is as a there's no green, there's no green mill, there's no purple mill. It's not like the dude's got like 15 mills and the red mill is one of them. It's just Bob's red mill. And as a part of uh signing on, you know, to be a sponsor of the show, he sent us uh a Bob's bobblehead.
So what do you think of it, Stas? It's right here on the table. It's a hefty bobblehead. And you know, Nastasia, I will say it this way. Uh it's a bobbleheads are the exact opposite of like the camera.
You know how they say the camera like puts on 10 pounds? The bobblehead like takes off 10, 15 pounds. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. Takes it out of the body and adds it to the head.
Another interesting thing, I don't know if you guys know this, but bobbleheads, like a high quality bobblehead, which Bob's red mill bobbleheads, very high quality. They ship with a neck brace on them so that they don't bobble in transit. Did you know that? No. Yeah, the head's totally locked in transit and then only bobbles when it's removed from its bobble brace.
You don't want any unauthorized bobbling. No, no, yeah. First of all, the one thing is that you don't want someone, it's like, why would you here's my least favorite phrase people use? So I'm about to use it. Why would you if you get the milk for free?
Why buy the cow? You know what I mean? Don't you hate that phrase, Nastasia? I thought you were gonna say it is what it is. You hate that phrase?
That's the worst. Well, what do you mean? Because it's just like meaningless. It's circular logic. Well, but it is what it is, is what you it's supposed to be meaningless because it's like I have nothing to add here.
I'm just going to string some words together so that there's not a pause in the conversation. Just say nothing. No one likes it when you just say nothing. If you just say nothing, that's like super awkward. Like, right, Stas?
If you're like, um, I can't believe this broke, this sucks. Oh my God, what are we gonna do? Like, I feel like that it is what it is, is like that one phrase you always say, no choice, no problem. Ugh. No, no choice, no problem is I say that when you know someone's like getting all bent out of shape and there's nothing they're gonna freaking do about it, right?
It is what it is. You don't even usually when you say it is what it is, you could just say nothing if it weren't awkward. Am I right, Dave? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
But like, for instance, on a radio program, you can't just have awkward silence. That doesn't work. And that's about as long as I can let you know. I know, I know. I can't let it go.
It is what it is. Also, let me just let me just throw in one more that I that I really hate, which is let's agree to disagree. Yeah, because that's not an agreement. And first of all, that's such like it's such an aggressive thing to say. You know what?
Let's agree to disagree. No. It's it's saying like I do not accept your logic. I am just going to turn inward and double down on my incorrect thinking. Well, but it also assumes that you're correct, too, right?
I mean, like when you say let's agree to disagree, it's like not only it's it's like I'm still right and you're not worth discussing this code. True. I mean, that's that's presupposing that one person is right in this equation, but that's not always true. No, but I think anyone that says that just believes they are right and also doesn't believe you're worth trying to turn to the correct side. Yeah.
I mean, it's like, I don't know. It's let's agree to disagree on the meaning of that. Uh so also, uh, see, recently, what'd I do? I went to uh Denver, visited a candy factory, which I I'm allowed to talk to. I can't talk about why I was there.
We could talk about visiting the Somebody saw you on a show. Oh yeah. Uh I I am on an episode of Nail It on uh Netflix with uh Nicole Bayer and uh Jacques Therese. Uh I haven't seen it, I won't see it. I won't watch it.
Yeah, they were like, did you see that? No, I'm not watching anything I'm in. Never. Like you didn't ever watch you on a show. No, of course not.
You can't you can barely watch me in the real life, and you know, like in the real life, at least you can make fun of me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like on a show, yeah, you can't even make fun of me and have me know about it. Because, you know, for those of you that know, Nastasi is a cruel hearted person.
Uh that's true. But she doesn't injoy making fun of you unless you get to get her back. She doesn't like like one-sided making fun. Like, she's why she doesn't make fun of dead people because what's the point? They can't come back at her.
You know what I mean? Like, yeah. So for all of her like inherent cruelty, she she likes to she likes to she has a code. Yeah, she likes to, you know, she doesn't mind like taking it as well as as you know, as giving it out. That's true.
And so, and that's the reason why I can get along with her. If she, if she was just a, you know, one way or the other, I couldn't, I couldn't handle it. That's why Nastasi and I, which is I mean, we shouldn't talk about it, bad to say, but like, you know, we can be kind of punishing on people, but we know whether they're gonna survive working with us or not if they give it back to us. Yeah, you know what I mean? When Booker was at work, Mark was like, Nastasi's a mean person, isn't she?
And Booker was like, No, never. I've known her for 10 years. Yeah, well. And I was like, that is so sweet. Yeah, because okay, Nastasia is also preferentially nicer to certain people.
Yeah, so Booker, uh, of Booker and Dax, uh, my children, Booker now is an employee of Pastaflyer. Nepotism. Yeah, someone's like, hashtag nepotism. What? Like, I like how else are you supposed to get your first job?
So and I was super proud he worked the Fry Station, which is like super. I mean, like, what could be better? I mean, that's although he did say multiple times to the other staff members on Friday Station, I'm very sensitive to heat. Yeah, yeah. You know what's funny?
He got he got home and burned himself at home. Oh wow. I was like, you know what? If you're gonna work in the food service industry and you're worried about getting burnt, like, I mean, your career is not very long here. You know what I mean?
Um, do you know John Oliver? Yes. He did a uh string together of Rachel Ray saying that her fingers don't have any feeling anymore. Oh my god, it's so hilarious. So it's Rachel Ray, but he cut it so that she just looks really kind of like depressed and beaten down.
She looks like she doesn't have feelings of any kind anymore. Right, but she's basically just like trying to say that she's cooked for a long time, and so she can't feel her fingertips anymore because they've been burnt so often. But if you see it all strong together, she's like, I have no feeling. He's funny, he's a funny guy. Anyway, uh, so also with Pasta Flyer, not only is Booker working there, but Nastasia now has found a new skill.
What is it, Nastasia? Oh, I am uh I I am a connoisseur of black people made of tread carefully here. Yeah, free hand uh construction paper portraiture. Yeah, yeah, well, portraiture. Yeah, so this Nastasia calls me and says this to me, and I'm like, Nastasia, first of all, what?
I'm like, what? Like, first of all, like you're yeah, as Dave said, you're treading on some super thin ice here. I don't know where you're going with this. Right, Dave. Do you even still know where she's going with this?
I hesitate to ask. All right, Nastasi, where are you going with this? We so we try to get a lot of famous people to to eat our food, and I'm, and I've uh we've catered for Saturday Night Live and then Twice. Twice. And the roots.
And um we have these boxes that we give out, and I try to put something funny about the person on each box, the celebrity on each box. Yeah. So like so like Leslie Jones didn't trust you. She tweeted that out. She said, I don't trust this box.
I'm suspicious. But when you did the roots, what happened? First of all, to say what you did for the roots, which was like. I just did each of their faces on the box. So the hand.
So I know like template. Dave, did you know this was a genre freehand construction paper portraiture? News to me. Yeah, well, there you go. Nastasia with the free hand construction paper portraiture.
And then what happened? And then one of the roots, uh, the keyboardist, uh, posted his portrait on his Instagram, and he got a lot of uh comments from other famous people like DJ Jazzy Jeff and the guy that wrote the Chappelle show. Which I was very proud of. And they were all making fun of the drawing that are the uh freehand construction paper portraiture that I did. Which I like because I can take it.
Because you could take it as a skill. Well, no, what's the one you couldn't take? Leslie Jones. I didn't like that she was suspicious of it. Like it's like she knows it.
What do you mean? She should be suspicious. Uh all right, calling your questions to 718497-2128. That's 7184972128. All right.
Uh so should we do some actual questions on the question based program? Uh start with a shape of water. I don't know what's in the cocktail. So, you know, Quinn Quinn who uh I'll I'll read that thing. It's because it's somewhere.
You put this somewhere in the document, right? Uh not sure okay. Okay, this is from Quinn who called in. He was the one who wanted to know about um, I guess uh working in the business, right? How to get started in this business of kind of tech-related stuff.
He's on Vancouver Island, and he can't really travel. Uh anyway, not sure if you or Dave are big movie people, but I thought you might find this cool. I developed a carbonated cocktail based on the shape of water, and one of the actors from the movie made it. Which actor from the movie made it? Um I've never seen the movie.
Oh, it's a good movie. I liked it. I watched it. Anyway, uh go check him out. Check out the uh Quinn's YouTube, which is what's his YouTube thing?
It's called uh Cooking by Q or something like this. Cooking with Q. Cooking with Q. Check it out. Uh I like carbonated.
I believe it was a mixture of blue curacao, of which, by the way, everyone here knows I'm not a fan of the blue curacao. Because here let me tell you why. Let me tell you why I don't like blue curaca. Uh, even though, so I had a rule at Booker and Dax of no blue curacao uh in the house. Like we wouldn't stock it, we wouldn't use it.
Uh if you want a blue cocktail, just use F and D C blue, right? Because if I want to use a high quality orange product, I'll use Quantro, I'll use Grand Marnier, I'll use Combier, I'll use a uh a good tasting orange product. And then I will just make the crap blue with artificial food color. Because you know how they make blue curacao? They take crappy orange liqueur and then add F and D C blue food coloring to it.
So you might as well just skip the middle person and get a good tasting product and add fake color to it. What do you think, Dave? Uh yeah. Yeah. But then I'm like, hey, guess what?
Let's not add fake coloring to our stuff because I don't like that. Uh now listen, this is me. So then the first thing Nick Bennett does, Nick Bennett, uh, you know, former head bartender at Booker Dax before Jack Shram, goes to start his own program at Porch Light. Very first signature drink on the menu is full of blue Curacao. I was like, Nick, man.
Nick. But it's it's and he still makes it. It's like one of his better known, uh, better known drinks. Look, I appreciate the blue. What do you hate it?
Why do I hate it? Yeah. It doesn't fit my style. I hate it for me. I don't actually mind the taste of it.
My thing is that I would, I would prefer using a better liqueur with blue food coloring. So I literally would just add blue food coloring if you want the blue. Do you know what I mean? Like, first of all, like, why should why should blue drinks just be limited to ones that you want orange flavor in? Right?
I mean, if you're thinking of of like a flavor that would be orange, would it be, I mean, sorry, blue, would it be orange? It would be blue raspberry. Which also doesn't exist. That's like the interesting, like, how did like I like there's been a couple case studies in how the idea of blue raspberry came to be a thing because there aren't any blue raspberries. There aren't even blue blueberries.
You think it would be blueberry, right? The problem is real blueberry has a very heavy purple tinge, and so you can never get it to be blue. In order to get an actual blue color in a stirred style drink, which is or even in like a tiki style drink, uh, you need to start with a clear base, right? And so, like a lot of these uh triple sec uh quantro things are clear, which makes them ideal for uh food coloring addition. Whereas things that have like raspberry, uh like real raspberry or any blueberry in them are so darkly pigmented already, you can't ride over them with that kind of neon blue.
Um but the shape of water uh cocktail, he also adds some uh green chartreuse to it, which by the way, always a good thing. I'm very huge fan of uh chartreuse and carbonated cocktails. Very huge fan. Love, love a little bit, goes a long way. Little bit.
Although you remember that one drink that you didn't like it, but it was called Chartreuse. It was just water, green chartreuse, and and uh clarified lime juice. No, just it's called chartreuse with chut. Oh, you're talking about the hot chocolate. So there's a classic uh hot chocolate and chartreuse thing.
No, but this is just chartreuse, water, and uh, and clarified lime, carbonated. And it's real good, but you have to really real good, but you have to like um you have to like green chartreuse a lot, do you? Yeah, I like drinking it just it's just straight. Yeah, yeah. Made by those crazy monks.
All right. So, okay, now uh back to uh a question here. Uh wait, Dave, tell the story of uh Daniel Day Lewis's role. That's your story. No, it's not.
You can't. What do you mean what even brought that to wine? Oh, I know. He's not in that. He's in what is he in, David?
Uh, I don't even know. The phantom uh, didn't you say he retired and uh and is gonna bake pastries now? No, so for the phantom bread. Yeah, it's a good thing. It's that P.T.
Anderson movie that got like no publicity. Yeah, he made his wife a full-on coutu dress to get into the role. Of course, yeah. So it's Nastasia, like he has nothing to do with cooking. This is your thing, though.
There's nothing to do with cooking. It's like it. Oh, it's like, I don't know. We'll get into it later. Let's see, yeah.
Did you make Nastasia a dress? No. No, no, it's like basically those. Actually, it was Jen, Dave's wife, who was like, you imagine living with him when he's doing these roles. Like Lincoln when he was like Lincoln when he came home to his wife.
Yeah, or like Bill the Butcher Pool. Imagine, imagine like, you know, this method actor, you come home at night and you're like living with Bill the Butcher freaking pool, and he's not showered for like a month, and he's like throwing cleavers into the table and wearing that damn top hat. Like you never know who's gonna come home at night. So we were joking, you know, Daniel Day Lewis's toughest role ever. Loving father of two, and hopefully.
You know what I mean? It's like come home and act normal, you know what I mean? But um anyway, all right. New lifetime movie starring Daniel Day Lewis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like toughest role to date. Um it kind of would be, right? It would, yeah. Yeah, anyway. So Kevin writes in uh long story short.
Of course, I'm not gonna make it short, right? Because I'm gonna go into five tan tangents. Long story short, I wanna open a cafe slash fast casual lunch spot in San Francisco, and had a couple of questions for Dave and Nastasia. Uh Nastasia Don't do it. Uh stay out.
Get out. Well, fast casual. So what's the difference, Nastasia? Before we get into it. What's the difference between quick service, like a quick service, which is what everyone's shooting for, and fast casual?
It's like just one's a subset of the other. Fast casual is more expensive. Like 11 to 12 dollars. And quick service is good sit down and get your food taken. Table service.
Yeah, I imagine quick service, you don't sit, right? Service, you don't sit. Quick service is more like fast food. So fast casual is like that's your Applebee's T G I S. That's still sit down.
You said fast casual is sit down. Can be. Oh man. I don't know. Anyway.
All right. Now that now that you are the expert on opening these uh these situations. All right. Uh had a couple of questions for Dave and Anastasia. Hey, would you ever move back to the uh Bay Area?
No. Never? No. Not ever? Mm-mm.
Why? Why? I don't I didn't really like it. You didn't like the place or the people? Both.
Both. Yeah. Yeah, you got that East Coast attitude. She you know how like um, you know how like shark skin, like Nastasia will always rub against shark skin the wrong way. You know what I'm saying?
It's like a saying someone from someone from San Francisco will will rub their hand along shark skin in the way that won't cut them. I don't like and Nastasi will always go the abrasive direction. I don't like the rich people who dress like crap, you know, like all the Silicon Valley people and all that stuff. If you're gonna like, I would rather be a rich wasp. Okay, so Nastasia used to be a fan of Bjork until what?
What? She got her eyes surgery. She saw Bjork at a party and her sneakers were dirty. And like she's like, that lady is too rich to be wearing filthy sneakers. I'm done with her.
That's true. Yeah, where was she? She was at a questlove salon. Anyway, uh so the whole guiding philosophy is act your income bracket. Yeah.
I don't know. It's nostalgia. It's just Nastasia talking, not me. If I were super rich, I would go live on Central Park South or West and not go to like deep Brooklyn and new pair of sneakers every day. Every day a new pair of sneakers.
Wow. Oh, Zappos would love that. Oh my god, right? Anyway. Uh okay, a little more background.
I run a non currently run a nonprofit that trains folks transitioning out of homelessness, uh, training them in the kitchen. My style of cooking is plant-based, so I guess that means vegetarian, right? Possibly vegan. What do you think, Dave? Is plant based mean vegan or vegetarian?
Unclear. Unclear. I guess eggs, not a plant. So plant based though can have other stuff. I could have a plant based cooking that has bacon as an accent note, can't can't I?
It's based in plants. It's all very vague. It's not based in meat, it's based in plants. Yeah, it's unclear. If you mean vegetarian, uh Kevin, let me know.
Uh plant-based Mexican inspired cuisine. We've been doing dinner pop-ups for about a year now, but want to have more regularity and sell more food by having our own space. Question. When opening a new food business, and here's where you come in, Nastasia, what's your process like for recipe testing and deciding on your core product slash the thing that people will know and seek you out for? This will be our first brick and mortar food business.
Uh, any general advice you'd give me or similar people for starting there first, would love to hear about both of your experiences. All right, Stas, go. Um, I would stick with the pop-ups and not open your own place. Come on, you hated doing the pop-up. That sucks too, but yeah.
Well, the thing, okay. So the main difference between a pop-up. The worst part of a restaurant is employees. It's true. She's like, you know what?
I like everything about the food business except the people that make the food and the people that eat the food. Right? No, the people eat the food are fine. Yeah. But okay, so here's what I'm gonna say.
As long as they're paying. The difference between a pop-up and a uh like a full-on brick and mortar space is that you have more, I would say more control over the consumer in a pop-up scenario than you have in a um in a brick and mortar for this reason. In a pop-up, everyone knows it's kind of a limited time only. People a lot of times are seeking out a pop-up, so they already kind of know what your shtick is. And so you have a little more leeway, I would say, in a pop-up to go outside of someone's normal envelope or comfort zone than you would having a brick and mortar space, unless you have such a well known shtick that people are going or being driven to your brick and mortar space by your shtick, right?
Wouldn't you say that's true, Stas? And so um, it's the same way that like when you're doing cooking demonstrations or a live events where you get to control the customer experience more than you would in a normal dining scenario, you get to go a little further outside of someone's normal zone because you have the ability to kind of steer their mind in the direction you want it to go. Whereas in a sit-down environment, or if they're if they're just coming in off the street for foot traffic, it's not necessarily the same. I think the same goes with press. Press have a different uh expectation of an establishment when it is a permanent establishment than when it's a pop-up.
Wouldn't you say and so you have to like they're worried a lot more about uh and you have to worry a lot more about uh are you cultivating regulars. I'd much rather have um I'd much rather have a like a base of regulars because they're like steady and you get them going and so you have to design also around uh you know you design different kinds of meals, different kinds of things if you expect someone to eat it, you know, once a week, as opposed to that is this a once a month or once a year or once in your life kind of uh a situation, wouldn't you say, Stas? Yeah, yeah. And the other thing is is that I would do I as Nastasia says, I would do a lot of pop-ups beforehand because what you like or even what's successful in one or two pop-ups isn't necessarily gonna be the the hit later on down the road. And there's not only what is a hit, well, here's the the flip side of that.
Something when you're developing something, and Nastasi, you can you know about this more than anyone, like you want that sucker, especially it's fast casual, bulletproof, right? That is true. I'm assuming if it's fast casual, that means that eventually you don't want to have to be there every day. And if you don't want it to be there every day, either you're gonna commissary that stuff out or you're gonna cook it in the back in relatively large batches. It needs to be you knee form, and you're gonna need to make sure that whoever's executing on the end isn't gonna hose your hose your product and kind of and kind of ruin it.
So the hardest part is developing your recipes such that they can be bulletproofed, right? Yeah, well, you know, Mark hasn't not been at the restaurant since we opened. Because nothing is bulletproof. Yeah, but that's what he's working with. They just care about their paycheck.
Wow. Wow. Good luck. Well, that's the thing. Like, don't expect, like, if you're in a fine dining establishment, right?
Or if you're doing something uh, you know, non-profit, you can get true believers. And true believers will work because they're true believers, right? Once you're in a it's just a paycheck environment, then you have to worry that they no longer care. And if they no longer care, then the product has to be truly bulletproof. Right?
That means that's why McDonald, you know, that's why all those places are there's no cooking. Yeah, because nobody cares. Right, right. Grab, put it. No, but the but the hard part there is is that is that if your supply chain doesn't make make sure the stuff's a real cook, right, is on the fly, changing what they're doing constantly based on the input they get.
So if the produce comes in and it's different today than it was yesterday or the week before, you adjust on the fly. That's actually the hard part about doing the kind of bar that like I'm doing. Most bartenders aren't used to having to do lots of on-the-fly adjustment for ingredients, because most bartending work is done with ingredients that you can just buy and they're standard, you know, or they're in a relatively narrow um, you know, range of stuff. Once you start dealing with produce that can be vastly different from day to day, it becomes very hard to bulletproof your recipes. And so I think that's that's what you need to kind of focus on.
Don't focus on what you can make, you know, yourself or when you're leading the crew, what can you pull off? It's more like what is the highest quality, slam dunkingest best thing that I can make that's resilient. So that's why, and resilient doesn't necessarily mean in cooking and in bar, resilient doesn't necessarily mean identical. Obviously, you're focusing on uh consistency, right? That's the main thing, consistency from day to day, from cook to cook, uh, from uh you know, week to week.
But you have to accept the fact that there is going to be variance, and so certain recipes are what I like to call stable. In other words, a change in a particular ingredient one way or the other is not going to drastically change the flavor of the dish. Uh, and some recipes are very unstable. And so um I would steer away from recipes where slight changes in the seasoning, slight changes in the cooking time, slight changes in the hold time on the line, you know, radically changed the um change the uh outcome of the dish. What do you think, Steph?
Yeah, no, how are you finding your employees? And did you were ever worry at Booker and Dax that people were not representing the drink the way that you imagined it to be? Uh n well, no, but uh like the thing about Booker and Dax was is that I loved our team. I loved our crew. You know what I mean?
And um I thought, you know, the the vast, vast majority of the people that I worked with at Booker and Dax wanted to be in the bar uh as professionals and they were devoted to doing a good job. You know what I mean? And that's you know, that's the benefit. In a way, you know, in a way people outside people don't understand how hard it is to try to design a program around people that don't necessarily care about the product. You know what I mean?
Like it's I would say it's probably harder. I mean, look at Mark, right? So Mark now is running Pasta Flyer and before was running Del Posto. Everyone in Del Posto, you know, fanciest Italian restaurant there is here, right? Everyone there was a believer.
Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like they're all, you know, I mean, ever everyone on the team, especially the higher ups on the team, they're all like aiming every day to try to produce the best product they can. What does he think's harder? Working Del Posto or working pasta flyer?
Right. And people don't the like regular outside person doesn't understand. And you're doing what, like two hundred like five hundred covers a night at Del Posto sometimes and three different dining rooms and all like a lot more going on than the two thousand square foot best food place. Right, but you you can trust that everyone on your team, like their primary goal. Now people are incompetent as Nastasia knows, people make mistakes, but everyone on the team is focused on the quality, not on money, because they can make more money doing something else, most of these people, right?
Uh and I felt the same at Booker and Dax. I think it's inherently harder to try to make a top quality product when I mean think of the work involved in having to take yourself out of the equation. People don't respect the amount of work it takes to make a good product that is uh invariant over the over the cook, over the right? Mm-hmm. I would apply this dynamic to heritage radio, in fact.
Yeah? How so? I don't really want to get into it, but yeah, you know, the analogy is uh definitely hitting home for me. Really? Yeah.
And you know, the other thing is Nastasia, so Mark Ladner, by the way, who used to do yoga. I don't know. I don't even know him when he did yoga. But what I mean is he's he's like in general, like calm and forgiving. Yeah.
Right? The opposite of you. Like you're basically opposites. Well, I'll tell you after the show happened. All right, all right, right.
So anyway, so like Mark always, he kind of makes fun of both you know Nastasia and of me, because he's like, You guys think everyone's incompetent. You think that you're you know better than everyone and Nastasian are like, no. No. What we have is we know we suck. That's like all we have.
Like I always tell him and our staff, like, no one is harder on me than me. So like I I I am the the toughest critic of myself. And I think myself, like, yeah. See she thinks she's good at darts, and in fact, she's garbage. She's garbage at darts.
But anyway, um, yeah. The other thing that he hates about us is that we just get it done and don't really think about like the consequences. So anyone that knows a look, like for instance, I'll give you an example. So we're working on the new bar, right? Which I haven't announced yet, so whatever, it doesn't exist whatever.
But anyway, so I'm working on the new bar yesterday, and uh we didn't want to have to do it because we're trying to use as much of the stuff as we had in the space as possible, more on that later. So I have but we have to move the bar. And so our contractor basically said, I can't, oh, the I got the bar, the physical bar. So the contractor said, I can't move the bar, we're gonna have to build a new bar. So I'm like, well, if we're gonna build a new bar, I want it to be something nice, not something garbage, right?
And so then, and then it's like we're sitting, everyone's talking, oh this, oh this, oh this, oh this, what if this, what if this? Yeah, and I can't say this because the family show. I'll I'll say crapped instead of right. So my stepfather's favorite phrase, one of his favorite phrases is you know, choose your favorite, like it could be if, it could be but, it could be, you know, so if we'll use if, right? If we did this, if we did that, if crapped himself.
Meaning, like you sit around, you say, if if if if if if you never get anything done, you never make it to the bathroom, you poop your pants. If crapped himself. Now you replace that with sugar honey iced tea, and you have an actual, an actual Gerard Adonisio phrase. And by the way, there is no one better at the curse phrase than my stepfather Gerard. I mean, he is like, he is like from from birth, gifted with a series of salty, salty phrases.
Uh, but you know, if crapped himself, you know what another it's not salty at all. And only very few people understand this. People who deal with smart people, kids especially, here's what you say. How smart? That's how stupid.
You understand what I'm saying, Nastasia? Yes, you're like, you're so smart, how could you do such dumb things? And so the phrase you could use is how smart, that's how stupid. And so he used to use that on me all the time. He would just look at me and say that.
I'm like, oh crap. Anyway, so yesterday we're like arguing about the bar. So uh Jack and Bobby from the bar and I just go to Rosen Swig's and pick out uh literally one ton, two thousand pounds of lumber. And so, again, I'm not announcing anything about the bar, this doesn't exist, whatever, but like, yeah, solid two and a half inch thick mahogany. Wow, wow.
I'm just sick of crap. I'm sick of garbage. You know what I mean? Like, I have a feeling, and of course the people at Rosen Sweeks believe this because they, you know, sell wood for a living. But I think that you know, the difference between like a thin layer of plywood or like mahogany boards, like laminated together like over plywood, people are gonna be able to tell the difference between that and two and a half inch thick freaking mahogany, right?
So the boards are like 10 and a half inches wide, two and a half inches thick. So it's just three boards, they're 15 feet long, so two of them to make up the you know, two of those sections to make up the bars. That has yet to be determined. It turns out my track saw is not quite, doesn't quite have an enough penetration to go all the way through this stuff. So either I have to buy the fest tool, which is a very nice track saw, else let the contractor do it.
Nice. So you just got it done. Just got it done. That's why I got to the story. Just get the get it done.
Exactly. This is given chat room wood, in fact. Yeah, they seem pretty excited about this. Yeah, so here's what we're gonna do with the mahogany too, right? So, first of all, the reason you know, mahogany, you have to make sure that the mahogany you get is uh there are unsustainable ways.
They the people at Rosen Swee's told us that this is you know um managed, so it's not we're not cutting down the last tree in the neighborhood where it came from. Um where'd it come from? Uh I don't remember whether this one's African or South American. Anyway, uh it's called uh uh Sapelli is the variety, because it's cheaper than the than the other mahogany, and still mahogany is beautiful, one water resistant is the other, and has a nice hand, meaning it feels good once it's finished. So what we plan on doing, the nice thing about the solid material is that when you're when you're running a bar, what you want at the back of the bart on the bartender's side is a nice drain rail.
So the way that a lot of people accomplish the drain rail is you build your bar and then you put a stainless steel drip pan, like a s like a between six and eight, eights better uh drain rail pan on the back, and uh you put um like a perforated stainless over that. And so that's when you're pouring when it spills, it just spills down. You can clean it at the end of the night. So it's a lot better than rubber mats because rubber mats, when you pick them up, they spill. Also, the rubber mats aren't level with your mixing uh with your bar, so you can't just slide your glasses off the rubber mat.
Uh so rubber mats are great for home. At home you should get a rubber mat, but uh at a bar, it's not ideal. But what we're doing is like so much nicer because we're just gonna mill, we're gonna route the tray into the solid mahogany, super waterproof it, and then just put dry decking down on the on where it goes, so that it's just gonna be the the drip thing is gonna be just part of our freaking solid mahogany bar. I'm super jazzed about it. Like I hope it comes out well because uh lifting that much wood because when you buy that kind of lumber.
Did you did you put it? No, you didn't we're on the subway. How did you how are you? We hired a guy named Reggie, and so I sat around making Indiana Jones jokes the entire time. That's just my pet snake Reggie.
Remember that guy from the beginning of Indiana Jones? Anyway, so what you do is this lumber doesn't come because literally they're just like they saw it into whatever width it happens to be. They take the tree, they saw it, they saw the bark off, and so it's random lengths, random widths. And so you have to sit there and just sift through all these piles of lumber, trying to get wood that matches color-wise, and trying to so we and the and the yard dogs, as as Bobby was calling them, are like super, they're like, keep the piles neat, keep the piles neat, keep the piles neat. It's in the Bronx.
And then they're like, that pile's not neat enough. And we're like, hey, Jerko, we just bought half of your freaking mahogany. How the hell am I supposed to make the pile look like it looked before when it's half as full as it used to be? By the way, if you're in the market for one and a half inch thick, uh like uh finished sapelli boards for tables or two and a half inch thick sapelli, now is not the time to go to Rosen Sweets because we bought those suckers out. We bought like all of the good wood.
The stuff that's left might as well be a corkscrew. So give them a couple weeks. Give them a couple of weeks to uh to get back to all right. So anyway, so um hopefully, Kevin, we uh answered some of your questions about uh developing. I don't think we did, but you want to take a break?
Take a break, come back more with cooking issues. This episode of Cooking Issues is brought to you by Bob's Red Mill, an employee-owned company that has been offering organic stone ground products for decades. Our question this week comes from Lucy. She says, I'm working on a homemade gluten-free bread for my son who has celiac. Are there any tricks for adding more structure and rise when using a gluten-free flour?
Yeah, so there's a lot of tricks. Everything with gluten-free baking is about the specific application. So it's it's hard to say. Uh what'd she say she was making? She's bread?
Gluten-free bread. Bread. I mean, depending on whether it's like a quick bread or whether you're actually trying to mimic uh a bread bread. The the thing, the main thing that gluten is doing is providing uh structure. So this like allows you to form things properly.
It's also what kind of holds it together, it allows it to expand and have the uh air pockets in it like a normal bread. So it's providing that structure during the rise uh and bake time. Uh and then afterwards, it's also providing some of the texture from the from the protein afterwards, but the starch then is setting it after. So what you need is something in there to hold the structure while it's rising uh and baking. And there's various ways you could do it.
I mean, if it's supposed to be a tender, egg-y kind of bread, then just add more kind of egg replacer or something that goes in there. And in fact, when you know, people like the good folks at Bob's Red Mill are designing gluten-free flour replacers, they're designing it specifically to try to have those properties when you're baking. But you need to buy the product that is specific to the application you're looking for. So you if you're trying to do bread, not a quick bread, but bread, a risen bread, you need to buy a replacer that is specifically intended for something like that. And that kind of frankly, a standard bread is the hardest of the things to do.
Another trick that I haven't played with too much, but precooked starches are a good way to add some texture and snap to a product, you know, a partially pre-cooked starch base is a good way to add some texture. And that's how the way like a lot of like noodle bases and whatnot are done in uh Asian cultures. Uh, if you have more questions about Bob's Red Mill products, tweet them on in to heritage underscore radio. If you want to go the gluten-free or paleo route when baking, Bob's Red Mill has tons of options. Go to Bob'sRedmill.com and use the code cooking issues.
That's one word, all caps, cooking issues for 25% off your order. And and remember, remember, when you're subbing out a product for a traditional product, there is no one substitute meets all. So, you know, the great thing about Bob's Red Mill is they have a very wide range of products, and just look into their whole range. I'm sure they have a product to fit your specific application. And we're back.
I'll tell you what. I tell you what, Dave. You know what's torture? Having to listen to us during our own break. It's supposed to be a break.
We have to hear ourselves. Take off the headphones. I can't even. I can still hear it through the break from myself. Again, now you know how I feel.
Wow. Why can't we just keep it silent? Well, we know how Dave feels about radio silence, don't we? Uh, true, true. Bringing it back.
Bringing it back. So, we got a question in uh from Jay. Jay says, having problems with my kilbasa. Is he writing in all caps? I just wanted to say that someone was calling in saying that they have a writing and saying they have a problem with their kilbasa.
Wrong show, Jay. Wrong show. Don't we have a show for people who are having problems with their killbasa? What's it called? Uh we had Love Bites.
It's on hiatus, though. Oh yeah. Who was the host? Uh Jacqueline Raposo and Ben Rosenblatt. Yeah.
Yeah. So uh this is the actual problem with Kilbasa, not with anyway. Uh so uh Jay is using uh Poulson's recipe, presumably the one out of the charcuterie book, Brian Poulson's recipe. Um having problems with an off-putting. What do you think about the word off-putting?
Shoot. What? What did you say shoot? You just said shoot on the mic in the air. What are you saying shoot about?
I don't have shoes for dinner. Oh, wait. Literally, Nastasia is looking at the internet and realizing. I just realized I have to go out to dinner and I'm wearing snow boots. Where are you going out to dinner?
Legacy records. It is snowing. Wait, you hope to just have like a Jay-Z sighting or something like this? Nastasia wants. What?
I just can't wear snow boots. Can you fancy them up? Maybe we can spray them and put sparkles on them. Gold snow boots. You can't wear nice shoes when it's crappy out.
Well, you're the one that got dressed this morning, Nastasia. I didn't get dressed for you. I know. Anyway. Uh, we're back to the to you to the actual question at hand.
If any of you have some suggestions for Nastasia going to Legacy Records. No, I think I'm Didn't you already go there? Yeah. And you're going again? Yeah.
All right. Uh using Polson's recipe, I'm having problems with an off-putting, almost sulfurous flavor. The flavor is much more pronounced after pulling some out of the freezer a week later. Uh after stuffing, I use my after stuffing my akiwasa. Uh I use my circulator to cook the sausages in vac bags at 160 degrees Fahrenheit for an hour.
I've eliminated a lot of other possible variables, such as older milk powder that has been sitting in my pantry, for instance. I also replaced the sheep casings with a collagen casing this time around as well, just in case. Is it possible that the cooking environment is causing some type of bad flavor from the pink salt? I intend to do another pat uh batch next week and steam them, but figured I'd get your take on it. Thanks, Jay.
So um yeah, I don't know about this. I was looking at Polson's recipe. Polson's recipe is onion powder, mustard powder, milk powder, uh meat, uh, nitrite, uh, and and some uh some other stuff. And I actually uh texted um Johnny Hunter about it uh from Underground uh Food Collective and Underground Meats in Madison, trying to figure out what's kind of going on. I said, Have you ever had a problem like this just from meat?
And he said, No, it is true that a lot of the characteristic aromas of cooked meats are um kind of sulfur containing uh volatiles, right? The volatiles are, but usually you're not gonna get a sulfurous off note uh from at least and and Johnny didn't hadn't heard about this uh uh either. My guess is are you uh using uh so what is in in your in your ingredient list is heavily sulfur based. The two things that are heavily sulfur based are the mustard and the uh allium, right? The garlic powder or onion powder, whatever you're you're using.
Uh I would guess it's probably that. And so the real question is, especially at those temperatures, are you using fresh garlic instead of powder? Because if you're using fresh garlic, uh that could be a source of these uh aromas, because a lot of funky things can happen low temperature with garlic, especially on storage in in uh in a meat like that. So that's the first thing I look at. Is it that if not most of the super volatile aromas that are made, any unpleasant ones, should flash off.
If it's a bag related, so when you're cooking something in a vacuum bag, you can often get retained uh what I like to call high note volatiles, so volatiles that uh disappear relatively rapidly uh once it's open. But a lot of that is in raw meats, so you have what's called specifically known as confinement odor. So confinement odor is kind of the small amount of bacterial action that goes on in a vac packed uh piece of meat, um, or even I guess it could be other things that are happening in there. When you open the bag, those things are finally exposed uh to the air and they flash off and it has that bag flavor. You know I'm talking about styles, right?
When you open a vac bag of raw meat and it smells like vac bag raw meat. That's called confinement aroma. And so, like that confinement aroma will flash off. And so it's also possible to get cooked notes in uh undesirable cooked notes in bags. Uh, and and it is true, it's like more often than not, uh, pork.
Is it is uh killbasays with beef and pork, right? Anyway. Uh my mom used to send me kilbasas when I started college in the mail. Just specifically killbases. But like the more dried ones that were like, no, like the summer sausage-y type kibasas.
Yeah. And do you did you enjoy them? It was weird. I used to get a salami in the mail everyone, so but not but like a harder salami, like one that would keep, like one that didn't require refrigeration. Yeah.
It would just show up and just sit in the dorm for a while and you'd eat it. What's with the salami sending? Well, you know, like that, like uh, there was a thing in World War II, was it uh Katz's, that used to have a um uh, you know, a thing that's like send the salami to the soldier in the army. Yeah, yeah, send a salami to your boy in the army. Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, you know, what's something you can send to somebody that they don't have, right? That is expensive, that they don't have to refrigerate, that they can eat that's a taste of home. So apparently Nastasia ate a lot of kilbasas last summer sausage at home and realize also that Nastasia's mom would send her plants in the regular US mail, just like a plant, not like a seed, not a seed, Dave. A plant, like tomato plant, a pepper plant go to the home dealer.
Not only is it not probably legal, it's also not advisable. Like she would just go get like a potted plant. I swear to Christ, people, a potted plant, and then put that potted plant in a box with some wet newspaper and mail it. Now, as a formal po as a former postal employee, yeah, I can tell you we do not treat packages well, especially moist packages, do not get treated well. So And that plant killed off the entire community garden.
Yeah, so Nastasia, first of all, everybody knows California is where the stuff grows. I don't know why they call New Jersey the garden state, because all we got is corn and tomatoes, right? Like California, they legit grow stuff there, right? What that means is the mites, the mites that live in California are the hardiest, most badass mites. The mites.
The mites. And so Nastasia got some sort of tomato mite shipped to her, and like our puny New York like garden variety plants cannot withstand the full mightiness of the California mighty tomato mite. You could have wrecked the ecosystem. Yeah. Not could have.
I did. Did 48th Street Garden. No one had tomatoes that summer. I mean the larger ecosystem. Yeah.
You know, there's nothing Nastasia cares less about than other people. So there you go. So uh hopefully uh, yeah, he could Johnny couldn't think of any we were still talking about sausage about Kilbasa, right? So uh I would look at your allium base, right? Uh so if it's not strictly speaking the meat, if steaming doesn't steaming might also solve the problem, I'll tell you why, because um the higher temperatures involved in steaming, if it even if it is the garlic, will probably inactivate uh whatever's going on.
But uh my guess is is that a lot of off sulfur notes have to do with alliums. There's also a lot of like I say, sulfur compounds, because that's the primary kind of flavor compounds in a mustard. Um otherwise, like things like livery flavors are enhanced by bags, but you're not saying like a livery flavor, you're talking what I'm getting from you is more of an actual kind of sulfur thing, not a gamey or a kind of livery note. Anyway, and what do you think, Stuff? Good.
Nail it. I have to have to say nail it. I won't like so someone, a couple people have said that they've seen it. I'm like, uh, I'm like, nah, I can't watch. Can't watch.
Although it was fun to shoot. It was good to see Jacques Therese. Jacques Therese, one of the all-time like hardcore pastry chef guys. Jacques Therese, I think I've said this on the air before, can walk into the French Culinary Institute, just walk in and do like these like hardcore sugar like demos that it would take a normal person, they'd have to work up to it and practice for a while. He can just walk in and like manipulate sugar like it's like it's play-doh.
It's crazy. The guy's a sugar monster. Um okay, dear Dave, Dave in the booth, Nastasia, Peter, who doesn't show any more Peter. Peter is Peter. Working!
Working, busy, busy, busy. By the way, for those of you that don't know New Yorkers, the classic thing any New Yorker says, how you doing? Busy. That's all we ever say, right? If a New Yorker says, I'm doing well, you're like, wait, what?
No. The correct answer from around here. You're not from around here. The correct answer, the the New York way to say I'm doing fine is busy. You're right, actually.
I say that all the time now. That's New York. I don't think people do that everywhere. Like if you're like, you know, living in Spokane, you're not like, how you doing? Busy.
You? You know what I mean? Like, because the assumption here is that you have no worth unless you're busy. Like, oh, you're not busy when you get fired. That is partly true, however.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Busy.
Uh okay. So uh what is it? Peter. This is a question from Uriah. We need Peter to come up with the show.
Yeah, Peter, busy. Uh, this is you, he is legitimately busy. I know. Yeah. What's he doing?
Well, we shut down the uh chow. We're doing a refurb on chow. I owe them a lot of work actually, because we're trying to add some more refurbished changeable books. There's so much stuff. That I have to do.
Book. I owe a book. That's late. So that's I don't tell my publisher, but the book's on the back burner until I get a couple of things knocked out. The bar has to get up and running.
One, there's a new Booker Index prototype that Nastasi, you've seen the first I think it is amazing. For the first proto, that was baller, right? Amazing. Let me tell you that like you think you think that we were, it is true in the past. Booker and DAX, we are trailing edge technology, as we've said many times.
Nastasi has gotten us booked into several. You see, we're in a we're teaching business students now about how to not run a business. It's amazing. We uh hey, Dave Nastasi, we brought you in literally literally, he said this yesterday. We brought you in specifically to talk about failure.
Go! Yeah, yeah. But we're gonna use these kids to help us with this third with the third. Well, fourth. Yeah.
You don't count, we don't count the cube. No. You know, you can still buy the uh buy the uh cocktail cube people, and I recommend it. It makes all of your drinks marginally but perceptibly better. That's our tagline.
Uh yeah, but the next the the next one, I think like the centrifuge is a niche market for people that want centrifuges. The Sears all is a good product, and obviously now we know that if it goes out of stock, there's problems. Uh the cocktail cube is marginally but perceptibly better. And the next one I'm thinking is gonna be just like Hopefully. Like hopefully that's like that's that's the one.
That's the one, right, Sas. That's the one that gets us that that lets you become what the leather man lets me get a house. Yeah, so we say it was like it's like if I get rich, what I do is I just dress up in recycled leather clothing and wander around Connecticut aimlessly. Oh, Leatherman. Yeah, yeah.
That's that's my version of being rich. It's been a while since we talked Leatherman. Yeah, I like Leatherman. You've seen the picture of me as Leatherman. Of course I have.
We used it as an episode photo at least twice, maybe three times. Yeah, it's worthy. I mean, like I use it again. We mentioned it. I looked apart.
I looked apart, right? Every time it gets mentioned, it has to be used as the episode photo. Yeah, tweet into Leatherman. Anyway, uh Wait, do we have that handle? Somebody has to have that handle over there.
Um I'm sure Leatherman, the company owns it, right? Or some or some sort of like, you know, person who wears a lot of buckskin. Yeah, more likely. Yeah. Uh this is Uriel.
Um I wanted to ask about how to make breadcrumbs shelf stable. I've been trying to get better at bread baking, which means I have a lot of leftover failed experiments. Hence I've been making a lot of breadcrumbs. Unfortunately, I don't actually use breadcrumbs very often. By the way, if you don't use breadcrumbs very often, you have a really good application for breadcrumbs, I think.
The fine ones, well, we'll get into this in a minute. It pasta. I love breadcrumbs on pasta. I was gonna say meatballs. Well, on top of pasta.
For those of you that never had it before, you're gonna be like, what is this idiot saying? That's stuch on stuch. You don't put starch on stuch. As uh, as uh what's his name? Uh um uh monk Tony Shaloub said in uh in Big Night, it's a starch, it's a starch.
You know what I mean? Like like uh, you know, you don't with you know pasta with risotto, which is true. I'll never forget my mom when she took me to Friendly's when I was a kid and I wanted to get like all the sides. I got like rice and corn, and she's like, No, two starches. You can't do that.
Yeah, Nastasia, what do you yell at me for two proteins or two starches? He gave his kid an egg and a piece of chicken. That's two proteins. You don't do it. Same protein.
Say proteins. Oh, well, no, different proteins. One's a baby. Anyway, point being is that although it might sound like it's not a good idea, breadcrumbs sprinkled over pasta. Especially with the oil we made in this interview.
Oh, ridiculous. And here's the thing, because it adds a crunch to the pasta, which is, I think, often desirable. And it has a history. So not just for kind of poverty cuisine, people that couldn't afford uh grated cheese, you know, for their pots, but also remember that a huge number of Italian recipes don't have cheese or dairy in them, specifically because they are designed around fast days, which is why fish recipes don't typically contain dairy and or cheese in Italian uh recipes, because all those fish ones are based on uh kind of either Lenten or fast uh fasting day recipes, of which one third of your days typically, right? You used to have just in my lifetime, people still did meatless Friday, but I can vouch for this, yeah.
Yeah, but it used to be a lot more days than just uh Friday. It was like because any random feast uh fast day was uh was a fast day, and so breadcrumbs are a good alternative. And you know, um anyway, so it's like breadcrumbs are are good for that. Uh it's it's my my thing I like to anyway. So back to the Uriel's question.
Um I don't use them very often. Was wondering how they could get the stuff you buy in stores shelf stable. I took Dave's advice and looked on the ingredient list at the back of the can, but didn't see anything helpful. I also tried Googling but didn't see anything there either. Would be great if I could figure it out.
Well, the good news is, Yuriel, that if you just make breadcrumbs uh normally, they are shelf stable, right? So what you want to do uh is I would let them stale out, first of all, like slice them thin, put them on a tray, let them stale out a hundred percent, then you can um toast out the I think the reason people have problems with breadcrumbs is they try to take fresh bread, toast it out, and then um, and then you always have uh a gummy inside and a crunchy outside. Those form those kind of bigger soft bread crumbs, which don't necessarily work in this, or they dry it out like a hundred percent, and then when they pulverize it, it gets real, real small, gets to a dust. I would I would slice them, stale them out till they're hard, pulse them down to bread crumb, and then toast out the bread crumbs. What do you think, Stuzz?
How do you guys do it? He puts yeah, stale um Sullivan Street bread and then oil, herbs. I don't know how to do it. Does he cook then pulse or pulse twice? Uh I don't know.
The point is is if you take if you make your breadcrumbs a hundred percent dry and toasted, and then you hit them in a in a RoboCoup or in a cuisinar, you'll turn them to dust. You'll get big pieces that don't break down, especially if you try to toast fresh bread. You'll toast fresh bread, the cores, which are resilient, will stay as big pieces and the outside will turn to dust. He does it is takes like a hotel pan, puts them in there, and then takes another hotel pan. And crushes them.
Right. So manual crushing is a good way if they're a hundred percent uh dry, right? So you can use manual crushing or like a pestle or something like that to get that's a good way to do it. But uh some combination of staling and or toasting, and then figuring out like when the crushing happens. Probably like a l like it.
But don't burn them. That's the other issue. Is like uh people often don't realize how fast and some once something is dry and the water is mostly gone out of it, it goes from zero to boint like right away. If you want them 100% shelf stable, I wouldn't oil them then because if you're gonna pack them in containers and you've oiled them and toasted them, they might go rancid over time. But just seal them in a container with no air.
If you have a vac, we used to take things like breadcrumbs. Let's say you live in Louisiana and it gets real humid. Uh, you can just take mason jars, put them in a vacuum, and then suck a vacuum on them. The mason jars will suck themselves down, and a breadcrumb will last uh through the next ice age in one of those environments. Alright, we gotta wrap it up.
Yeah, that's it, Dave. What? We actually did a full uh straight hour. Yeah, you should you should get used to this. Yeah, but we had we had a bunch of questions about how to use the spinzall.
I can do that next week, yeah. Mito Yahy writes in the curious okay, okay. We'll Facebook people, we'll Facebook people will get to all of your uh spins all questions. Wait, are we we're around next week, right? Am I gone next week?
No. I'm flying back again from Denver next week on Tuesday. Man. So in two weeks, we will we will get we will get all of your spinzall related questions. Facebook them all in.
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