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Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 from Robert's Pizzeria in Bushwick. We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez late today because there is a police investigation on the L train. Oh God. Yeah.
And we got Dave in the booth. How are you doing, Dave? Good. I'm glad I took a car today. You took a car?
Yeah, I was running late. So fancy. Every time. Well, you okay? So it used to be every once in a while.
This is one of the reasons I decided to just be like screw it when I was late, because it used to be that when I was gonna be late, I would try to take a car here, depending on where I was coming from, because you know, if I wasn't near the L or what. And there's always there used to always be this giant truck delivery that would stop the car for like five minutes, like right in the middle. And you know how, like, in this neighborhood, if a truck needs to make a delivery, they're like, um, stop now. You know what I mean? Yo, I can hear the honking sometimes from in here.
Yeah, yeah. So I was like, you know what? Screw it. I'm never gonna do it again. I'll just be a couple minutes late and not have to because nothing burns me more than spending money to be in a car and sitting there like a jerk.
Especially in this neighborhood in Brooklyn where there should be legitimately there should be no traffic. Oh, and here's Nastasia. I'm Nastasia's gonna climb behind me because she doesn't she doesn't want to walk in front of me. She knows how unhappy I get. How are you doing, Nastasia?
We don't want to obstruct your voice, Dave. Oh, geez, yeah, that's a real problem. Speaking of which, you you missed the uh the intro, which was about the Charleston Food and Wine Fest. When was that? Uh when was that, Dave?
That was the beginning of March. Yeah. Isn't it the beginning of March right now? No, April. No, incorrect.
Oh, April. Yeah, things blur together for me. I'm getting old. I forget. Anyway, but like I was just in Charleston uh last weekend, and I can say, actually, I was in Charleston yesterday.
It's today, Tuesday. Yes. Uh, and I can say uh a cool town. I'd never been there. Why did you take a cruise?
I didn't take a cruise, Nastasia. You took a cruise? I did not take a cruise. Do you have neurovirus now? Uh I have Legionnaire's disease, which is much better.
No, the uh renewable. So, like uh Fort Sumter, where the Civil War began is an island, a fake island, actually. They made it out of granite, but it's an island, and so to get to it, you have to go by boat. And as Nastasia knows, if I was going to have a set a third life after Leatherman, it would probably be Civil War reenactment reenactor. Although I'm now listening to a book, a book about Civil War reenactors, and I'll have to say, Nastasia, that the whole situation is like even more crazy than you imagine it is.
Like the whole like how deep the scene gets. Don't care. Uh I think you you would be interested in hearing these stories. There are people who spend their lives starving themselves to be gaunt Confederate soldiers. Oh.
So they starve themselves to death and practice laying on the ground and looking bloated like a two-day-old corpse. Wow. And they are aptly referred to as hardcore reenactors. That's about as hardcore as you can. I thought you meant you'd been reading about the Civil War.
No, reading about reenactment. How's your uh C V book going? A Sue V book is going great. I started it. In fact, I uh Nastasia can see I have a new piece of equipment in my hands.
I'm going to try to write it on this new iPad with this pencil. Nastasius, like I knew you. I was wondering about that. You were cradling it very awkwardly when you came in. Because I don't know how this thing works.
And like, this is a big phone. Uh but like the uh this is a giant phone. But uh yeah, no. What are you talking to? How does this work?
Although I just realized uh I just figured out how to get the music app in it to work, which was nice, very nice. Uh because I I've always hated Apple's music app. I've always used third-party apps, but the problem is is that since my son Dax bought that new uh Apple music garbage, it's all like uh it's all protected stuff, so none of my old DJ apps can get into Apple music, which is irritating. I'm sure you deal with this crap all the time, Dave, no. Dave's like, I don't know.
I'm having a conversation. I can't, I don't know what you say. Sorry, were you talking to me? Yeah. I was saying, don't you have a problem, like what DJ apps can you use with Apple Music?
You can't, because it's all DRM. So you can't. So Nastasia does a lot of work uh for this show, including uh like just sending me a thing saying answer the old questions without actually retyping the question she wants me to answer. So she's looking at her highlighting saying, answer old questions first, and doesn't realize that I've cop I've had to copy and paste the old and new questions into one document. Just goes to show the level of care that Nastasia has for you people out there that your questions get answered, i.e., zero.
Uh okay. So, but I am gonna answer one of the old questions, uh, new questions first anyway, because here it is. Megan from San Antonio writes in, I liked San Antonio when I went. Did you know? Is that when the hotel room or the Airbnb that Peter booked for you?
And the maid came in while you were No, that was in Austin. While you were what? I was trying to take a shower. She's like, you need to get out right now. I'm like, I'm in the shower, and they said I could stay.
Nope. You gotta get out. Airbnb, whatever, don't even get me started on Airbnb. I saw these anti-Airbnb ads on TV the other day. They're like, they're they're blaming Airbnb for rising rents in New York.
I was like, you gotta be effing kidding me. Well, how does I understand that? I mean, I get like, you know, racist Airbnb, I get that. What's the rising rents argument? I I don't know.
It was just a TV uh there were obviously there was no explanation. Paid for by landlords of America. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? It's like people in our my building, because it's a big co-op, will because they're so nosy.
People are so nosy and so into everybody's business and not wanting anyone to have anything that they don't, that they sniff around for Airbnb people and then try to report them, which I think is like just the most garbage way to live your life. If you live your life that way, get over it and just live your own life. If someone else is doing something wrong and getting some benefit from it, don't let that burn you. You're you, they're them. I have a personal question to ask our listeners.
Well, that's a how do you ask a personal question of 30 people? That's only the live listenership. Yeah, yeah. So wait. So my landlord is selling my apartment.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? Yeah. The one that you live in? Yeah. Out from underneath you?
Yeah. Are they allowed to do that? I guess. I had that happen to me in Philly, yeah. What?
Yeah, but that's Philly. They have no people have no rights in Philly. This is New York City, no way of rights. No values. Yeah.
So my building doorman gave me a tip on another uh nicer place that went up for rent. And without listing it, listing it on the market, they let me have first right refusal. Okay. So I was like, okay, great. I'll take it.
They're trying to do that so you don't sue them for kicking you out of your No, no, no, because it's an owner, unit owner. It's not a building owned. Uh yeah. So I told the landlord that I got another place. She was like, you're supposed to stay till the end of May.
And I was like, yeah, but you're selling it, and like I need another place. And you're renting from the same landlord. No, different landlord. Uh yeah. So she wants me to pay for the last month, even though like if she had sold- Are you asking me an ethical question, or what should you do?
What should I do? I mean, pay that last month, even though she's No, don't pay and let her keep the security deposit. That's what's gonna happen. You're probably she's probably gonna keep your security deposit anyway. How many months security deposit you can do you have?
Is that the same thing though, basically? No, no, what I'm saying is she's lost her security deposit, right? So the fair thing to do, because the landlord's never gonna give her the security deposit back because Well, I have two months, right? I haven't paid for this month, and she's asking for next month. All right.
What do I do? You haven't damaged the apartment, right? I I actually made it better. Okay, that is up for debate. I'm sure it's got some crappy fake fireplace in it that you think makes it better.
It's taking up half the dang apartment. But like if she had sold it, let's go. I made it better because I drilled holes in it. I'd have to move out, you know, two months ago when she listed it. That's not the point.
Okay. That's not actually true. They can't terminate your lease to push someone else in it. That's not possible. Like, they'd have to pay you a bazillion dollars to do that.
I'm sure that's possible, but that's not what's happening here. Right. Right. You're going to finish your lease and she's just not renewing it because she's gonna sell it. Yeah.
The correct answer is just make sure that you don't pay that. I always like I always just let the security deposit be the last month's rent. Yeah, and I thought this month was the last month. So I was like, there's a security industry. You are ethically obligated to pay through your lease.
Okay. Okay. I mean, Dave, back me up on this. I I haven't like technically been on a lease in New York yet. So what do you squat?
I guess. No, seriously, what do you do? I mean, but ethically, you need to pay through your obligation. Where do you live that you don't have a lease? Probably he probably is living on someone else's lease.
No, I have a lease. Yeah, yeah. I just or I mean I don't have the lease. The lease is not in my name, but yeah. Yeah.
Uh yeah, I don't know. But but Airbnb it. Why don't you Airbnb it? I often I said that today. But the building is very snoopy.
What are they gonna do? Keep you out. Boom! Kick me out, eh-hole. Because you're not gonna you're like you're it won't be my.
Yeah, and you're not gonna you're like, you're gonna eat like they're like uh keep your security deposit. Like I'd already planned on that. You're not getting your last month's rent. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like that's true.
That's true. I had this guy once, hack, his last name was Hack, jerk. I lived in this apartment for a year with my well, my future wife, right? Attic, hot as all get out. You know attic apartments, hot as hell, pit ceilings, right?
You know, like because it's you're living under the roof there. And it came furnished, and the day we moved in, pillow was missing from the couch. I dealt with the missing, not not a small pillow, but dang, the the cushion, the freaking cushion. My job's right. We move out a year later.
I had to live with that for a year, right? Then when we leave, he doesn't give us our security deposit. Guess what, guess why, people? Pillow. Pillow in the freaking couch.
And that was a day that I said, Never again will a landlord get my security deposit. And that's the way it's been. Yeah, that you taught me that. Yeah. And I taught everybody else that.
Yeah. I mean, it's not strictly speaking ethical, but it's what I do. I mean, I don't have a landlord anymore, but if I did, that's what I would be doing. It's just it's unfair when you leave to have to fight for your security deposit back, and they have the advantage at that point, because what are you gonna do? Actually, yeah, I had to do that back in Philly the last time I was on a lease.
Uh I had to go to small claims court. Right. Why should you have to waste your time to get your money back? It's obviously a scam. They're just trying to get extra money, right?
Yeah, yeah. He just like dropped off the face of the earth, stopped responding to my emails. Yeah, so I had to like go through this whole process. Sure. I won't get into right now.
And a big landlord. I got it back. I got it back in full. Right. That's good.
Did you get attorney's fees? Uh we didn't it never came to that point. We were gonna just go to small claims court and represent ourselves. And then like before we went to go in front of the judge, their attorney pulled me aside and was like, okay, like you can have the money. Because I like had this stack of paper, like evidence saying why we should actually get double back.
Because like the law is if the landlord, at least in Pennsylvania, if the landlord doesn't give you notice about the status of your security deposit within like 60 days or something, then you can potentially claim double that if they're in the wrong. I like that. Take take take note, Philly. But here you know, I told D I ever tell you about the court case that uh the jury duty I got out of? No.
So I'm sitting in the line for the jury duty, and they they call up the jurors to get questioned. And it was a case where this guy had not paid his rent, got evicted, and the landlord like like chucked in or sold the person's stuff, right? And um I was on the the jury and the the the lawyer said, So, um, you know, do you rent? I'm like, Yes, I I rent. And they're like, uh, do you, you know, what's your opinion of landlords?
And I said, Well, I'm sure there's a good landlord somewhere. I haven't met them yet. You know what I mean? And like that's a good way to get out of jury, dude. They're like, Goodbye, sir.
Did anybody laugh in the room? No, because everyone's bored and everything. They're trying to keep a straight face, but I guarantee you that the person next to me was like, Oh, I should have thought of that. Well, you you you answered in front of everybody. They didn't because I've had to go up to the judge and then they put on this white noise machine so other people can't hear your answers.
Oh no, I yeah, no, those are like all in open yeah, all open. Oh well. I've been in jury duty and they're they've asked the entire room, like, has anyone had family members with addiction problems, or have you had addiction problems? And there's people that were like, 'Cause people are so willing to get out of it that they're like they're like I smoke crack. You know what I mean?
Like they raise their hand and they're like, want to get out of jury duty. I have to say, the one time that I was actually on jury duty, I thought it was rewarding. It was a rewarding experience. I have to go later this month. Yeah?
Yeah. Don't shirk your duty, Dave. I it's my civic duty. I agree. You know, I want people to serve on juries who, you know, have other things to do with their lives, because it means that they're, you know, on top of things.
Yeah. Yeah, I want people on juries with brains. Yeah. Isn't that too much to ask? Uh apparently, yes.
Oh, so back to Charleston. So I was in Charleston, real pretty. Uh I saw on the street, which was uh amazing, Leverpole espresso machine running on the street. And the woman who uh gave me a shot poured me uh uh uh very nice shot. It's a cool town.
You can buy Carolina gold rice on the on the street, which I did. Uh well, you know, in a store that's on the street, like uh like several varieties of uh, you know, kind of small small producer stone ground grits. So I bought the you know Jimmy Red stuff. Yeah, it's good, really good. I had good food.
I was at McCrady, speaking of Sean Brock. Uh what else did I do there? Um that's all. I had a good time. Walking in.
What? What were you there for? So Heaven Hill, who makes among other things, Rittenhouse and Elijah Craig, right? So the written house. Yeah, written house.
Who doesn't love Written House? Bad people. Like Ritten House is just a good product. It costs a lot more than it used to, but you know, we we still written house ride, we still use it all the time. So like uh they're doing this series of they're doing a contest, and as part of the contest around the country, they have the uh these dinners afterwards, and so literally my only job is to fly to this city and sit down at dinner.
Yeah, and then like they're like, why do we have this guy do this? He is poor company. That's not true. That's so I so we talk about like cocktail balance and and whatnot. So the last one I went to, uh the guest judge was uh Jeffrey Morgenthaler, who you know from uh Portland, and uh this this week it was uh Joaquin Simo from uh it's actually Simo.
He told me he's like, You've been pronouncing it wrong, like since I've known you, it's Simo. Joaquin Simo. Anyway, so he was the uh from Pouring Ribbons, he was the uh other guest judge today. If anybody meets Dave at a bar and Peter and I are there, uh cut your conversations short. So Nastasia and Peter ostensibly took me out for my birthday five days late, I'll add.
They took me out of gone. I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, right. Oh, me, yeah, every day, man. I like uh my dream still is to grow up to be a Disney princess. Like, which one would you be, Sas?
Disney princess. I have to think about that. I don't know. Ariel, duh. Why?
Why does every man think she's so no to be her? I want to be her, not be with her, you gross person. She's like 12. Oh dear God. Maybe we should take a call.
Yeah, caller, you're on the air. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Good, how are you? All right.
Um, I have a roast chicken, crispy skin, lack of smoke detector question. Uh wait, you do not have a smoke detector. No, no. Of course, I wish. All right.
I have a large, uh, high ceiling and a sensitive smoke detector. Is it removable or is it or is it hard-lined to the fire department so you can't disassemble it? Honestly, I can't even get to it. Like I have to go borrow a ladder and like I thought about put the shower cap on it or something. So I don't know what's up there.
I'm renting and I probably can't screw with it. Oh another renter. Yeah. Yeah exactly renting issues. Yeah.
Yeah that's the next show. Yeah. Actually I think that's the title of this one. Thanks, Collie. So I've been spat spatch cocking chicken at like 450 and then invariably like 25 minutes into it, it's just forget it.
And then like gone like 500 degrees for five 10 minutes or so at the end, but that inevitably takes a long time and it's not the easiest thing to do just on a weeknight. So do you have any suggestions or yeah sure. So here's the give you a little preview of the book right the the thing about high temp cooking is that you need the high temp for the uh for the kind of crust on the on the outside that's true. But once you develop said crust, right, like other than the risk of b burning the outside like the high heat is not uh affecting the cook rate of your meat that much. It's just affecting to go back to my favorite term of art it's affecting the moisture management at the skin area right so the problem with um like you like there's various ways you can do this.
You can go high early to start the the to kick start the cooking and to s develop the kind of start developing the browning reaction early on so that you can build with the browning reaction during the cook time at the lower temperature, right? And then there's the I'm gonna cook it at a relatively low temperature at the outset, and then I'm going to like crank it at the end to get the skin where I want it, right? And then there's the I'm gonna do a little bit of a both situation. And everything has advantages or disadvantages, but the the problem with cranking it at the end is that it's very hard to judge when you should crank it to get the skin color where you want it. And then if you have to do it too long at that high temperature, you risk overcooking the rest of uh of the meat.
The advantage of doing it at the end is that you're only generating all that kind of smoke at the end, right? The the way that you're currently describing it, which is actually Barbara Kafka's preferred mesh method in her book Roasting, which was kind of a it's it's a book that I do mention in in my book, right? Um, is to just go high throughout. And her argument is accurately that you're not gonna overcook the middle uh of the meat by having a a high temperature, right? Uh, but she likes the kind of uh outside you get based on that.
And that's still a kind of preferred situation for things like roast veg and whatnot, right? Where you're just trying to get high heat in and there's so much moisture you need to evaporate out of the veg to get the kind of flavor concentration out of roasting that you want, that basically fairly high heat is a good way to go the the whole way through, so long as you don't burn. Now, the problem when you're doing something like a chicken, even if it's spatchcock, which means it's gonna cook relatively quickly. Like a couple weeks ago, I I did a whole full-size turkey in like an you know, an hour, an hour and small change, batchcocking, pressing flat, you know what I mean, on a sheet tray with a with a high temp oven. Um the problem is is that you're gonna get uh smoking because as the stuff uh drips out into your pan and evaporates out of the pan, which it's going to evaporate at a fairly ferocious rate because you have a very high heat input there, it's gonna start to make a lot of smoke.
There's just no way around that. So you can either, some various things you can do, you can have uh make sure that you have a drip pan so you could put the spatchcock thing directly on a grate, right? Now you're not gonna get that, you know how when you spatchcock, if you've deboned and you spatchcocked, you'll get that crispy underside where it's in contact with the uh with the sheet tray, you know what I'm talking about? Like you won't get that if you're on a grate, right? In fact, it'll be shielded, especially if you do this, but you'll decrease your smoke factor uh substantially if you periodically refill a uh a tray with water underneath and make sure that the water never runs completely dry.
Now, I'd have to run tests to see whether or not that it's gonna increase the rate of cooking because you've increased the humidity in your oven. I don't know, to be honest, whether it will affect the absolute crispy kinda uh quotient of your skin. I haven't done the test, so I can't say. But that's one way to keep the smoke down, right? Okay.
Uh but another way, the way that I I would recommend is I would hit high, right? Hit high to get the browning started, right? Then add uh then turn it down, right? And add a little kind of liquid so that you're not so that you're not uh like getting like scorched stuff, but turn it down for the majority, then make sure all the liquid is gone because now after you've done the the cooking, you now want to get as much moisture off the surface of the skin as possible to re-crisp it. Because after you do your initial browning, you'll start getting moisture migration through the meat up through the skin, and the skin will lose some of its crispness.
So I I would then jack it again at the end, but just for a short amount of time, like right towards the end of cooking, so that you're not in danger of overcooking. Is that makes sense? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what I would try.
Thank you. Appreciate it. I'll give it a try. Cool. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks so much. All right. Uh so uh this is uh from Megan in San Antonio. I have a question about Day's fermented OJ that he has talked about her numerous times. Uh I listen frequently, and my boyfriend is a bartender in downtown San Antonio.
Well, that's your first mistake. Going out with a bartender, boom, just kidding, just messing with you. Come on, people. Just messing with you. Um got jokes.
Yeah, got got them all day long. Uh so I brought I brought it up to him uh and I want to make this fermented OJ, and he found it very interesting. So interesting that he wants to implement it in a highball cocktail. Uh, we have 64 ounce growlers and airlocks and no shortage of fresh OJ. Uh, and she, you know, apologizes to the barbacks for having to make the fresh OJ.
Uh, when we first pitched the champagne yeast, we let it ferment for a few days. After that, the yeast and pulp settled, and it tasted fizzy and had a dry but meaty, not necessarily unpleasant smell, similar to uh lunch meat ham. Nastasia is gonna make a lunch meat ham drink face, I'm sure, which is just gross, right? Yeah, lunch meat ham. You know, people, there are very few people on this earth who love ham more than I do.
There are people who love it as much as I do, but there are very few people who love it more because how could I love it more? But I don't want to drink it necessarily. Ham soup, yes, hot ham water. I mean, I could see hot ham water. By the way, before I answer this question, Dave, if you could go to a bar, let's say the bar was called the clam broth house.
Okay, and they had a spigot of constantly flowing hot clam broth. Would you see this as a good thing or a bad thing? Uh bear in mind, the name of the bar is the clam broth house. So it's like you know what you're getting into if you go, but what do you got? I hate clams.
Specifically, I hate the broth. You know what I mean? You're not going to the clam broth house. You know what? It used to be in Hoboken.
Wait, this is real? Yeah. Of course, in Hoboken. I think it was Hoboken. It could have been Jersey City.
But the best thing, Google this up. You gotta look at the signs. This they had two signs, and it's just a finger. And it just it just says clam broth and it just points. It's like clam broth house.
Yeah. Oh, right here, right here. And they got one that points like at a clam broth right in. Yeah, they got one that points at like a 45. Oh, clam broth, right here.
And then they got one that points straight down. Straight down, dudes. Like at the doorway. Oh, down here, clam broth. You know what I mean?
And so it's like. And so, like, I had this dream of having the clam broth fountain at the bar, and Don's like, no. Why? Nobody wants clam broth. No, nobody wants that.
People, let me hear from you. Do you like clam broth? First of all, clam chowder, which everybody likes, right? Is all it is is clam broth plus, right? Clam broth plus bacon, potatoes, and and milk.
Clam house, clam broth house, right here. Nastasi's looking at the right ear, right here. Uh I encourage you to Google image search that. How awesome is that, Nastasia? Wait, what did they dispense it into?
Like a bowl or something. It is a fountain. So you would drink it out of a glass, or you would get a bowl of it and then you would eat it with a spoon. Since it closed before I could go there, you're you're asking what I imagine. These are these are questions that need answers.
I imagine that you have a coffee mug, preferably a warm coffee mug kept in like a warmer, that someone hands you, and you just walk up and you just put it under the clam broth spigot, and then you and then the the real problem is that how can you do it? Because you're you you know you can't afford to like one and done your clam broth, right? What do you think their conversation was? What do we want our sign to look like? Right here.
So like what do you mean you can't one and done it? You can't one and done it. Like you don't have like how many liters of clam, okay. So our pump runs 50 liters an hour. We're open for eight hours, so we need 400 liters of clam broth today.
No, you have like a you have like you're recircle you're recirculating your clam broth. Oh, which means that if somebody dribbles or spits or double dips and then puts it out of their glass, it becomes unsanitary. Even if you heat it. Nobody wants clam broth plus spit. Correct.
So that's the question of how do you I mean you could one and done it if you had to press a button to dispense it, but that's a lot less cool than just having like the somehow like having flowing broth. It's like having flowing seltzer. You know what I mean? Like when you go to Saratoga and you have flowing water out of the ground with bubbles. There's just something Yeah, I don't think there's any way around this.
You have to have the button. But the button's a lot less cool. Can we not agree that the button's a lot less cool? I mean uh I don't know. Think about it.
Let's go back to the question. Uh so uh Megan's uh OJ had a uh meaty but not necessarily unpre pleasant ham smell. That's how we got into clam broth house, by the way. Wait, did you know that it was the bone broth of the day and it was supposed to lift the fog of even the most severe hangover? Are you on the website right now?
Uh I'm saying is that I think a good hangover cure. Look, there's a reason why those like clamato things became popular with the tomato crap, and it's because tomato was seen as a hangover or like a morning after kind of thing. Clam was seen as that, you know, which is weird because now if you mention seafood to most people, like most people for hangover now are like, I love bacon, right? That sounds like what like a stevedore would drink first thing in the morning. Which, you know, stevedors knew what was up.
I mean, that's my guess. I think Sinatra's mother was a fixture at the bar. Like they mummified her body. She was hanging on the wall like Silvio Borlusconi here. All right, all right.
So back to the OJ. So, uh, and then she finishes her question, which says, uh, for consistency, is there any temperature range and amount of time you should recommend for fermenting in a bar setting for the final product, just looking for the OJ to be pleasantly dry and can be force carbonated if needed. So, Megan, I think your problem is that you uh, and I this might not be what you want to hear, but often if you're gonna ferment something like OJ on its pulp, it's going to be, even if that pulp settles out, you're gonna have a very different uh taste than if you uh clarify it first. And I've seen like a lot of fruits can have kind of funky tastes if they're fermented with their pulp, right? Uh and so, for instance, even apple cider, right?
If you ferment it with all of its stuff versus clarifying it first, you get a different taste. I know that firsthand because I've tried it, but I think OJ in particular, you're probably gonna get more of these funky aromas if you ferment it entire and then uh let the stuff settle out. So I would try clarifying it first. I'm not saying that you should go buy a spinzole or something, but buy a spinzel. But yeah, find some way of clarifying the OJ first and try it.
Even if you only have a small amount of it, try it. Because I think that's what those uh aromas are coming for from. As for consistency uh for consistency and bar thing, I haven't been that um kind of uh um what's the word I'm looking for? Consistent with it. Like typically I'll pitch, I'll leave it on a countertop at ambient until I get a good fermentation going, and then I'll cool it down a bit, you know, you know, in like 60 or something in uh in uh you know 5560 in a wine situation uh for a little bit at I'll let it go basically almost all the way through primary and then put it into the wine uh cooler to let it settle out before I rebottle it.
But let me know uh and give it a shot. It is hot as hell in San Antonio, so I'm sure like bar top like can be hot if you're if your HVAC is not so good. Hey, Dave, did I answer the question about uh the juice business? I don't know, but we got a caller. All right.
Uh well I well, I got the caller. Somebody figure out if I answered the question about the person trying to start the juice business because I know I spoke about it with Don, but I don't know whether we talked about it on the air. I don't think so. All right, you figure it out, we'll do it. Caller, you're on the air.
Hey Dave and Dave. Um it's uh it's Paul in Seattle. Oh, how are you doing? Not too bad, are you? Good way well, do well.
Um, so I had a question about um some of the recipes and liquid intelligence. Oh, okay. I've been making some I well wanting to make some of the bitters and the coffee rum recipe. Um the ones that require like heating the whipper. Right?
But uh my only EC is a therma whip, like the insulated one. Oh, yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, I was wondering if you did any like testing with the insulated whipper and um how that like affected any of the heating or the simmering times. Yeah, uh I uh. So the people, for those of you that don't know, so the the EC, the whipped cream maker, they have a bunch of different ones.
So like the on the basic level, you have your uh half liter and your liter stainless steel whippers, and then they make what's called uh a thermal whip, and a thermal whip is is it's like a thermos whipper. And the idea of the thermal whip is that you can put a hot thing, so like when you're using one of these things in service and you want to keep a sauce warm in the EC, typically you'll have to put it into a Bain Marie of water to keep it warm, right? Or cold. Uh with this, it's more like a thermos. So you when you use a thermo whip, you either fill it with ice water or you fill it with boiling water, then dump that out, and then fill it either with the cold water, cold, cold mix or hot mix of your choice, seal it, and it stays warmer and or colder for for a lot longer.
That's the idea of the thermal whip. Um the reason I never got into them is A, they're a lot more money. B, they're a lot bigger. So like they're not taller, they're a little bit taller than a half liter whipper, but they're a lot wider because they're insulated like a like a thermos. Uh but I don't think that there's any effective way to do heating inside of it just because I don't think there's any effective way to do heating in inside of it.
Um I'm trying to think like I mean, I can think of ways to modify it. It would be super not cool because you would mess with it. I wonder whether EC would sell you the like a replacement, because you know the tops are completely interchangeable. Did you know that? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder whether they would sell you like as a replacement if you said you lost it, just like the half liter bottom. And then like do it that way. Because it's like the tops are totally interchangeable, but there's I don't think there's any effective way you're gonna heat the uh the inside of that stuff, because its whole point is that you can't do that.
Yeah, I I thought about looking for uh an extra bottom that wasn't insulated on eBay or something, but they don't really seem to sell like just the bottoms. There's not really a market for that. I mean, I wonder whether EC like EC USA would sell it to you or EC North America, whether they would sell it to you or not. Um that is a good idea. Yeah.
Or like, you know, Craigslist or restaurants find someone who like lost their top and is like just wants to get rid of um the the bottom, you know what I mean? Uh-huh. But yeah, you're gonna have a tough time heating. I mean, it's a good piece of equipment, but it does, you know, it's like it it's like a thermos. So it like it exactly does not want you to be able to apply heat to the outside and warm up the inside.
Yeah. And you don't, you know, and you don't want to drill a hole in the top of your uh EC and like you know, thread a heater cartridge into it with a thermocouple and then pray that it you know it's leak proof and then plug it in. You know, at least I don't want to do that, and I definitely don't want to recommend that you do that. You know what I mean? Well, if you don't want to do that, that that kind of says something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. If I'm not if I'm not willing to do it even for myself. Now I have built my own plastic um EC tops for carbonation tests. I have done that.
Uh, you know, so like you find you can find these old um, you can make like a what you here's what you have to do. It's a pain in the butt. What you do is is you take all the parts off of the EC. In fact, I bought uh EC used to make a plastic topped, like non-professional whipped cream maker that has the same threads as their as their current one. And I modified that by like drilling and adding pieces of Bondo and like printed parts, and then I cast that in urethane rubber, like flexible urethane rubber, and then bought food grade rigid urethane and cast a bunch of tops.
And they they worked great, but I mean I don't mean are they you know safe? I mean, they don't go through the safety testing that EC's real stuff goes through. Now I wasn't using high pressure with that because I wasn't putting cartridges on. I was I was carving from tanks with it. So I knew the pressure was never gonna go above a hundred PSI, so I was never gonna have a situation like that uh French blogger that was killed by a part flying off of her, you know, um imitation whipper.
You know what I mean? Um but it's you know, after you have someone go outside of the bounds like that and kill herself, you're like loath to make recommendations to people to modify equipment that's under pressure, if you know what I mean. Yeah, that is fair. Well, the uh the idea to um to reach out to uh EC themselves is uh is a good one. I may try that.
Yeah, I mean look, here's the thing, right? Their main business is to make money off of the chargers anyway. So like they, you know, maybe they're willing to sell you the bottom thing, but like the the only issue like as a manufacturer that Nastasi will attest to this, is if it's outside of what they can normally do, nobody wants to go out of their way unless they really feel like they like you. Right, Sus? Yeah, yeah, nobody wants to go out of their way because everyone's got a workflow, and if you're if it's within their workflow, they're like, sure, because they can just press a button and make it happen.
If it's outside of their workflow, they have to really like you. Story of my life. What outside of the workflow or workflow. Anyway, good luck with it. Let us know what happens.
Tell them it depends. Like most of the people I know who work there have like retired or moved on, so I can't even like give you someone to pester and say that we sent you. You know what I mean? But um, you know, it used to be I'd be like, tell them that Dave says Rick aggressus to sell you that stuff. But like I can't, you know, he's uh he's retired, so I don't know what to do for you.
Well, I'll see if I can get you somebody to uh forward future people to. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Let us know what happens. Alright, all right.
Uh take a quick break. Quick break, back more cooking issues. Think about what it takes to swim a coastline longer than the entire eastern seaboard and leap tall waterfalls in a single bound. What does it take to survive 200 feet deep in icy salt water? What would you be made of?
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Ask for Alaska on the menu, grocery store, or smart device. For more information, visit Wild Alaska Seafood.com. You know what I like to taste in every bite of seafood, Dave? I like to taste. I like to taste young people eager for money risking their lives for the high pay of fishing off of the coast of Alaska and getting killed on the regular.
I thought I read ads poorly. Oh man, that's so harsh. Why do you mean mean? Because I really I was like, okay, there's another person that's not so good at it. No, you're still the worst.
Yeah, it is. Oh, I am the worst. Oh. Can you taste the falling off the boat and drowning, Dave? Can you taste it?
I can. Mm-hmm. Moving right along. Yeah. Uh, okay.
So uh this is from you said I didn't answer this. All right. So Devin in Seattle writes in um for years I've been wanting to create a juice production and distribution business directed towards bars, restaurants, hotels in my city. And recently the uh Times presented itself to move forward on this idea. That is until yesterday when the Department of Agriculture and the FDA told me that raw juice, the same juice that we make and use in bars every day can only be sold direct to customer and wholesale juice must be pasteurized.
So here's my question. Instead of giving up because I hate pasteurized juice, you're taking the FD. Oh no, we did say this. Remember Johnson to the face. And you were like, oh.
What? Remember? Yes. I remember this. We answer this.
Remember, I said take the FDA's Johnson to the face, which is directly reading this, and you're like, family show. Yeah. You don't remember this? Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Nah.
I remember. Dave, you're like one of 30, so you know it's all a blur. All right. Well, so we already answered Devin's question. And the answer is is that you don't know.
Johnson to the face. Johnson in the face. No, you don't have to post pasteurize citrus if you get um, if you get the state, like a uh you buy citrus fruit that specifically says it was picked off the trees and not picked up off the ground. Then you just have to surface pasteurize, uh not sorry, surface sanitize your uh fruit skins, and then you can juice and sell as long as the sale uh as long as it has a note on it saying, you know, not pasteurized may kill you. Uh or the other solution, which everyone recommends, is uh just don't ask people what they're using it for, and you can sell it to them.
If they if they buy it as a retail customer, then you don't have to worry about it. All right. So uh Eric Nystrom writes in my wife and I are going on a restrictive elimination diet for autoimmune disease reasons. Read, not by choice. Um that's a thing now.
People do this a lot. You ever you know people who've done this, Nastasia? No. Where you get rid of everything and then add back to see when you have problems. Yeah.
Previously on cooking issues, you talked about it. Sounds so good. Previously on cooking issues. It sounds like previously on cooking issues. I always hate that in TV shows, though, because now on Netflix, you've just seen the damn thing.
You've just seen it. You don't need to tell me what I previously saw. Because it was like five minutes. Now you can. Yeah, but what if it was like yesterday or the day before that?
Well, most of us, Dave, can remember a show we saw yesterday. Boom. You know, most of us have a lot of things going on, Dave. Oh, yeah, because that's my problem, not having a lot going on. Yeah.
Yeah. Previously on cooking issues. You talked about pressure cooking garlic to make it super mellow, creamy, and de breathalized. So I tried some in my Instapot, and it came out okay, but had a bitter ground note. You have a bitter ground note, Nastasia.
I was waiting for that the whole day. I underlined it, underlined bitter ground note. But still uh made me excited to try uh some base sauces on it in uh lieu of cream or cheese alternatives. By the way, oh, in lieu of cream or milk, uh, because you're getting rid of dairy. Crap.
I was gonna say cook it in dairy, because that's what we used to do. We would pressure cook garlic in milk. Maybe they could make ashwaganda cheese. Uh no, it's the milk that's the problem. Almond, what about almond milk?
I wonder I wonder whether almond milk would uh would help get rid of the bitterness, but it's expensive the same way that regular milk does. Huh. See, my guess is is that with with the garlic when you're doing it, like the my guess is that some of those bitter notes get attracted to and immobilized by the casein in the same way that tannins do in tea. But I don't know. I just knew from experience that if you cooked in milk that the uh the milk A would congeal hard in the pressure cooker with the garlic and you'd get like this weird ugly stuff, you'd blend it back.
But I knew that it would take away some of that earthiness. But I wonder whether other protein-based things would do the same thing. Uh so I don't know. Maybe someone in the chat room has some ideas on that. I don't know.
Uh question, what are your favorite pressure cooked garlic bases based sauces? Anything uh any other things worth pressure cooking for sauce? Onions, like you can make like a really good uh thick onion-based sauce, and you could use a boat ton of onions because in fact, Nils and I used to make an onion ice cream. Do you ever have the onion ice cream sauce? Yeah, I remember that.
Did you like it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was a like you literally pressure cook onions and then you blend them into an ice cream, make it ice cream base with all these onions, and it's still like a little bit meaty sulfury, but like most of that's gone and it's sweet and kind of brown and nutty, and it's fantastic. And you can use vast quantities of uh onions because it goes really um becomes really sweet.
In fact, uh, it's so sweet that you let you l you know knock down a lot of the flavors. So, like like uh my favorite way to do the French onion soup is to double it. So I'll do like a like a huge amount of pressure cooked onions, and then I'll sweat traditional sweat some more onions to get some more of the classic flavor in and do like a a double onion. Um mustard seed is good in a pressure cooker, but uh I've had bad luck with it recently. It's been bitter.
I don't know why. For years, I remember I used to do pressure cooked mustard seed all the time. I don't know whether my palate's changed or whether I just lost my touch. Maybe I've just lost my touch. What do you think, Stas?
Losing your edge. Lost my touch. Yep. No touch left. No touch left.
No skills. Uh just for reference, we can't eat, but hopefully only temporarily. Grains, seeds, and nuts. Ooh, there goes uh almond milk. There goes life.
Grains, seeds, and nuts. That's my whole life. Grains, seeds, nuts. Every seed? Grains, seeds, nuts, yeah.
What does that leave left? So there's no rice, no corn, no wheat, no barley. I mean, seeds, no beans. Right? Because that's a seed.
They both have this autoimmune. No, no, no, no. They're going on, they're going temporarily getting rid of everything and adding back to see whether an item of their diet. When you were a vegan, uh when I was a raw vegan was the angriest Nastasi's ever seen me. And believe me, she seen me very, very angry.
Why were you a raw vegan? I lost a bet on this radio show, but it was when uh Jackie Molecules was uh in the booth. But yeah. The bet was that, and I'm pretty sure that they cheated, but the bet was that that no one could make uh a piece of raw chocolate that I thought tasted like chocolate. And someone gave me something and said, listen, I'm not gonna argue about whether or not the producer's a liar or not.
This tastes like chocolate. I've lost the bet. I'm I'm raw vegan for a week. Do you know who's even madder than I was? Your wife?
My toilet. My toilet's like, what are you doing? What's going on? You know what I mean? It's like, remember when we had uh what's his name who wrote uh catching fire and he was like making fun of uh raw vegans.
He's like, it's not possible to get enough nutrition. That's why they have to eat constantly if you're a raw vegan because your body just can't absorb it. Yeah, that was pretty funny. Anyway, also no dairy, and here's your favorite. We're going uh we're going with the Patriots on this.
No nightshades, i.e., no tomatoes and no potatoes, no solanaceae. Spin it in. The old Tom Brady diet. Yeah, so like basically, Eric, what can you eat? Kale?
Like, what else is there? Like, you know leaves. So basically, they can only eat leaves. Right? What else is there?
Bulbs and leaves. Bulbs and leaves. That's why you're asking about onions and garlic, right? Because they're alliums. You got bulbs and bulbs and leaves, but not leaves as well.
You don't really eat solecey leaves anyway. Anyway, if anyone in the uh in the I have to think more about this. Clearly, I did not, even though it's this question's been on the books for weeks. I clearly have not thought enough about it, right? I need to think about it because I didn't know if someone's done this diet before, and they could Google what they've done.
So meats are okay, right? Looks like meats are okay. I would do like onion pureees, but the problem is you can't bolster it with anything creamy because you have no dairy and you have no nuts. So coconut milk. You could do coconut milk or coconut cream, like a garlic thing as a saucepan.
That would be good, right? Would also make a good uh ice cream. So, like a good, like uh coconut coconut milk slash coconut you know, cream makes amazing ice cream. So you can do coconut products along with the pressure cooked alliums, get some rich richness, put some uh along and then put that back in. And I guess all the only thing you can eat is steak, right?
Or pork. That's rough. I hope you're off that thing soon, Eric. Seriously. Yeah, poor guy.
Yeah. So we have a uh a listener. Okay, I gotta get this right because I'm gonna do it wrong. It's Marcel Masso, right? Not Marcel Marceau, everyone's favorite French mime, if there is such a thing as a favorite mime.
Are you also are you a mime hater, Dave? I I guess I'm ambivalent, they're not really a part of my day-to-day. You're mime mime bivalent? Sure. Like a good mime, when I was a kid, like the mimes to beat were Mominchance, right?
So Mominchance was the mime troop that everybody liked. And if you said everybody, how do people what? Uh Momenschance was a thing when I was a kid, you know. So like the thing was When were you a kid? 70s.
So, like that if someone said to you, if someone said to you, do you like mimes? You're like, no, no, nobody likes mimes. In fact, like one of my high school band name uh concepts was mime aside, right? But but they're like, What about Mominchants? You like Momman Shants, don't you?
Like, well, I don't consider that, I don't consider that miming. They're like, they are mimes. Anyway, so go back like elevated miming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel that there is like in in America, or at least there used to be a big cultural pres prejudice against mimes.
Like, whenever there's a mime in a TV show, it's like you always expect someone to come do something terrible to the mime and then get a big laugh out of how someone has brutalized the mime. Am I wrong about this? No, I think that's right. Yeah, anyway. So this is Marcel Masso, not Marcel Marceau, the famous French mime.
Back to the question. So the question? I haven't written it yet. Read it yet. Marcel from the Hudson, oh, you're just being a jerk.
Uh now you're being a jerk. All right. Running from the Hudson Valley. What is the cheapest DIY carbonation setup, i.e., the best place to order parts? The best place to order parts is from Mark Powers in Guntersville, Alabama.
You know, I have somewhere, I my brother in law just bought it. I should repost or can you post things, Dave? On the radio show page? What on the internet? Yeah, thing things can be posted on the internet.
But is that something we as a web as a website do? Sure. If I gave a list of parts to buy from Mark Powers, you could post a list of parts. Absolutely. All right.
So Marcel, yeah, I'll post that list of parts. The only things you you the issue with them is are you gonna order the tank from them or not? Right? And you have to figure out whether you want the full 20-pound tank in your house, which is what I recommend, uh, or if you need a smaller thing because you're gonna put it under underneath the cabinet. The other thing you can't get from Mark Powers is um you can't get the uh the carbonator cast, but you can get them on on Amazon.
And the whole rig, it you're gonna spend a little more than you would if you bought stuff like let's say a soda screen, but your cost of use is basically nothing because depending on where you live, and you're in Hudson Valley, but I haven't priced it there, like a 20-pound refill on CO2 is gonna cost you like 17, 20 bucks, something like this, and it's gonna do wait for it, between two and four hundred gallons of seltzer. So it's a real low cost of use. So that's what I recommend doing. And and um I'll try to remember to bring the parts list in for next week, Dave, and we'll put it up on the on the net there. Two.
I know that pectin and certain sediments uh are an issue with carbonation, but are all sediments an issue? For example, certain gingery soda brands have a lot of sediment, and certain uh gingery sodas also have crappy carbonation. You know what I mean? So you right, Stas, you've seen this happen. Or like, have you ever carbonated or had like a like a beer that you've made or or fermented and like this and the sediments on the bottom, and then when you when you open it, it starts overflowing your bottle and pouring all over the sink.
That's because like a nucleation site's a nucleation site. That's all there is to it. The only way to get around that that is to have lower levels of carbonation such that it's not going to overfoam or a very low alcohol level and other like a low level of other things that foam so that when it does bubble out a lot, it doesn't build up enough of a foam to overflow your bottle or your or your glass uh that quickly. Uh so that's that's what I'm gonna say about that. Now look, very small amounts of sediment that actually make it cloudy but don't provide a lot of nucleation sites, aren't going to be that much of a problem.
So I don't worry about like hyper hyperclarity, but you know, anything that has chunks enough that are big enough to form nucleation sites are gonna be a problem. And that's anything like way small, all the way down to like microscopic fibers. But if it's smaller than that, uh you should be fine. All right, we gotta go. I should look up what the smallest uh thing that can be a nucleation site is next week.
Well, we got we haven't even finished this question. Well, we gotta go. All right, all right. So I'll get to questions three and four, Marcel, next time. And can I say one thing on the way out?
One thing. All right, Jay, who wrote in about his no no no no no no wait. No, Jay who wrote in about his kiobasa problem, we said it was probably that he was using fresh garlic, and that was the problem. Guess what? We were right!
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