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Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues Coming Deal live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like roughly 12 to like roughly 1245, 1 o'clock, from Burner's Pizzeria in Bushwick. Today we have BDX Crew in the house. She counts as BDX crew. It's true.
BX bar crew. When I say BDX crew, I mean BDX. Yeah, he always forgets I helped him open the bar. So call in all of your BDX cocktail-related questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128.
Since we have a rather large- Oh, by the way, the reason we're doing this uh BDX reunion now is because I've wanted to do it for a long time. And uh we're about to open, it's not Booker and Dax, and everyone here has gone on, except for the one person who's gonna work with me in this group. Yeah, has gone on to do very interesting things. So this is in advance of the new bar existing conditions opening. Uh it's coming, we promise.
That's that's Jack Shram, our one cent future head bartender. Uh I can never escape Dave, and I would never choose to. All right, let's uh so let's go. Why don't we start? Start with you, Jack.
We'll go around the room, we'll say who's in it, we'll say who's in here, and then we'll then we'll just get going. Sure. Hi, it's Jack Shram, uh future head bartender of existing conditions, former bar back at Booker and Dax, also bartender, head bartender. Here's hello, this is Robbie Nelson. I was uh the general manager of Booker and Dax uh very early on, and now working uh with Plymouth Gin and Perno Ricard.
Uh my name is Nicholas Bennett. I was the former bar captain of Booker and Dax, and now I'm the head bartender at uh Porch Light, uh part of Union Square Hospitality Group. When you sing when you say Porch Light in your head, do you sing it in Neil Diamond voice? Always. Every single time.
My name is Donnie Clutterbuck, and I used to work at Booker and Dax. Now I am the head bartender at Cure, one of the many cures in Rochester, New York. And uh you can't trademark that name because it's a common word. So everybody uses it. And now I travel around and talk about spreadsheets and citrus fruit.
Well, also, like you're also like your USB G all that sort of stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean how long do we have? Right? I don't know. Just tell them what you do.
So yeah, I'm the founder and a founder and the president of the Rochester USB G chapter. I own an app called Poor Cost, which is a way to find out what it costs you to serve things from a milliliter bottle in ounces at dollars at a percentage for free. And what else do I do? I don't know. I don't know.
I drink coffee in the morning and coffee at night. Nice. And that's that's that's that. That's we need an app that's just pork cost. It's cost of every cut of pork.
How much does your pork cost you? What have I turned it into ham? Hello, I'm Felipe. Uh former resident, beautiful boy at Booker and Dax. Uh currently bartending at Blacktail.
Hey, I'm Derek Cram. Uh I was part of the last generation at Booker and Dax, uh, now at PDT. Yeah. Uh Stacey Swenson, uh former bartender at Booker and Dax. Um at Dante and Dante at Genuine, uh, where I'm the head bartender and creative consultant for uh Simple Serve.
And and general party time good have her. Now Dante Genuine, unrelated to Genuine the Rapper. Well, not technically unrelated to the different spellings. Affiliated by enjoyment. Yes, yes.
Uh so anyway, so uh we'll just talk about things. Uh we already have a BDX question, someone wants to know some specs. I'm sure everyone's gonna ask specs. Uh if anyone calls in, they're just gonna have us shoot the breeze here, which is also fine. But I figured we'd make a drink.
So uh sorry, not pronouncard on this one, but Heaven Hill came and did a tasting, and they left us a bottle of um, it's just gonna show you how like the mentality works at the cat the like old Booker and Dax mentality, hopefully we keep this mentality. So they show up and they show us this uh sacred bond, you know, uh American brandy, which is good and a good price. Yeah, and of course I just run around the room saying word is bond, girls I'm sugar, like running around like an idiot, calling the spirit word is bond and not ever saying the word sacred. Uh and then we're tasting it, and I think Jack and I both looked at it was like, why have we never made a why in all of the years we never made ourselves a milkwash sidecar? What what were we thinking?
Yeah, first of all, like sidecar, sidecar is one of those drinks, and you guys will, you know, disagree with me, of course, because you're humans. But um sidecar is one of those drinks that I always want to love a lot, and I never quite love it a lot. And I know all of you who know me know that I have an issue with like heavy wood, heavy acid on a shake. And so, you know, the yak. Anyway, so we're not using yak on this, because uh standard side cars, of course, yak.
Do the classic specs have added simple syrup, or is it just cointreau yak and lemon? That's like the original daisy. And by the way, garbagey spec. It's a garbage. Any simple.
Yeah, it needs simple, it needs simple. Yeah, file that onto the long list of garbage classic specs and knowing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh yeah, it's bad, bad people, just terrible people. Uh anyway, so uh we milkwashed some of the uh it's sacred bond, not word, sacred bond.
We uh milkwashed some of that. I should say that's why I was late because I was at the new bar milkwashing. So I milkwashed that, and I have a new thing for all of you. Uh so one of the things we did at Booker and Dax a lot was uh acid adjusting, right? We would take our juices and a jack uh adjustment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We would adjust them, we would adjust them uh up to the acidity of lemon or lime juice. But so we were working actually for a new drink at the bar, the celery drink. Yeah. And uh, and I thought I was like, you know, I kind of want just more citrus, more, more, more.
So I was like, well, why have we never done OJ into simple syrup? So this is now OJ into simple syrup. So we have OJ turned into simple syrup, lemon juice. So instead of replacing the quanch with OJ syrup, and we're also, by the way, so I'll tell you a couple little secrets here for calculating uh bricks adjusting up to simple syrup. This recipe only works, only works for adjusting two one-to-one simple syrup.
If you want to adjust to any other bricks, you must, by the way, bricks just means percentage sugar by weight. Anyway, deal with that. Yeah, so it's not just equal parts, sugar, and juice, it is bricks adjusted to 50. Right, bricks adjusted to 50. So here's how you here's how you do it.
You look up on the internets, or if you have a refractometer, as we do, you look up the bricks of the thing you have, and and here's the magic formula. If you want any other ratio any other like, you know, bricks, if you want to do two-to-one simple syrup, then you're on your own. Go figure out the math. But just multiply the bricks by two and subtract that from a hundred. So orange juice is 11.8 bricks, that's 23.6 subtract from 100 is 76.4?
Something like that. So that formula always works. So then if you have a hundred grams of OJ, you add 76 and change grams of sugar, and you're good. Very simple formula. Just multiply the bricks by two, subtract from a hundred.
Multiply by two. Assuming you're starting with a hundred grams, scale up accordingly. Well, everything's by a hundred. Yeah, everything's by hundreds. By the hundred weight.
Not the ice company. The hundred weight of nothing against the ice company, I'm just saying unrelated. All right, Dave, before I make this, how about we open one of our bottled specialties that are let's do it. And what's oh awesome. So what what Jack, tell them what you're opening here.
So the first thing we're gonna open is a one of our Booker and Axe bottled Manhattans. This one happened to be bottled on July 10th, 2015. It's been in my freezer. Well, it actually traveled with me to New Orleans uh for the cat program in 2015, and I never opened it because we were so liquored up the whole week. You know, it's just it's tough.
Uh so I just brought it home and jammed it in my freezer until an opportune moment such as this one. Not frozen, but the fridge freezer, you know, it's been fleezing in a chilled environment. Except for the time it was in my suitcase and then in a mini-bar fridge for six days. I still have a bottle of chartreuse lying around, but I don't know where it is. It's at the bar.
Okay. Uh by the way, for those of you, for those of you that uh, you know, all of you obviously are family, and I hope to see you at the new bar on a constant basis. But remember, we used to store all of our bottled drinks and our carbo drinks in these refrigerators, and they were a real pain in the behind from a service standpoint because they would rattle and move in and out. Remember our glasses used to fall off and shatter, and then like they would go out of out of temperature, and then people wouldn't put the stuff back in, and I would start screaming and yelling. Remember this?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So at the new place, we could talk about this because they printed it in the newspaper. We're gonna have vending machines, and the vending machines are going to keep it at exactly the temperature.
And so we're gonna have bottled stuff behind the bar too, but people who want to order it can literally just plop a token in the vending machine and yank the drinks. How sick is that? That's awesome. Crazy. Yeah, yeah.
We can't do the Bennett martini because we need something new. Well, maybe we'll make some Bennett Martini. The three eighths, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
What olive did you use in that? Was that uh we're gonna share this, right? Starting to do that. Yeah, we gotta start with we've got two glasses to start with steakbones. So we're gonna go around, we'll meet in the middle.
So uh so we could talk about bottled cocktails if anyone cares about bottled cocktails. Uh one more thing I'm gonna say about the fake sidecar. We'll need it if we like it, which I have no idea. I'm making the classic mistake that uh what's his name? Uh what's his name?
Thomas Keller yelled at me for, which making something I've never made before in front of a bunch of people is like, you're an idiot, you're stupid. I'm like, well, thanks, I'll take that. Uh but we're gonna shake it with an orange, because we don't have shake ice, and I don't have the BDX cocktail cubes. Because whenever I do a demonstration, like like somewhere else abroad, I bring a BDX cocktail cube with me, and then invariably I give it to the person who I'm working with at the event. So I don't have any, so you can get the same the cocktail cube is something to add the texture of shake ice.
And by the way, you can get that texture by shaking with a large piece of citrus in your tin, but if you do it, you're infringing on my patent, and I will sue you. Drink is no good shake with the orange. No, everybody has to shake a drink with an orange. Well, it does actually add a little bit of uh where insta Instagram It does add a little bit of uh like zest flavor, which I also enjoyed. Still good, still tastes good.
How many of these do you want me to make? Should I just make one so we can see if it's good and then make more if it is good? Yeah, do you have this? Do you have the salt? I brought the salt uh the salt?
I don't need it. Oh, perfect. Nice. All right, yeah, make one. So the question for you guys, now you're all, you know, I know where your relative palates are, and you know where my relative palate is.
How close to three quarters do you want to get on this? I'm doing uh like fat half. Fat half? Are you guys okay with fat half? Yeah, I'm okay with it.
Taste the taste the word milk wash word is bond. It's good. It's it's light. One of the issues with uh wooded spirits for me is that they get uh, especially in shaking cocktails when they're extra diluted and extra cold, gets that woody. So if you milkwash, it's uh Jack just took a pull straight out the bottle.
Uh all right, cool. All right, so we're shaking with an orange, infringing on my own patent uh and mixing it. So I don't think that's how that works. What uh Nastasi, why do you have my phone by the way? No, I was texting David from my phone.
Um, all right, because I need to look. Why don't you read me the call? Well, do we have any callers by the way? Dave, do you want me to keep the sticker on the orange when I shake with it? Uh that's the added flavor.
And it's a sign that I washed them beforehand. Dave, I'm waiting for a call. We had a guy who called in twice before you got here. So, you know, such is life. Such is life.
Uh all right, so we had a question. Uh, this is about sauce. Any of you guys cook uh cook sauces? No? Yes, no, asking a group of bartenders about cooking sauce.
What about? I was in a place recently where uh half the menu spelled sauce like sauce, and the rest of the menu spelled sauce like sauce. What's their definitely a difference between the two or though? I think so. Like it seemed like sauce was cooler.
It was just a mistranslation, but definitely sauce is what I wanted. You know what I mean? And they had they had a dish called what was it called? Super mixed chops. Super mixed chops.
Super mixed chops. So here's my concept. You ready? We take we take uh lamb chop. We gotta get different sizes, but pork, lamb, beef, and then we meat glue them into a super chop, low temperature it, keep the pork on the outside so that it cooks higher.
Pork, then I guess lamb then beef, and then or maybe like pork, lamb, beef, pork, so that the you know, thinner. And then we have that's a super mixed chop, and of course served with sour. Souse. Uh the Manhattan was delicious, by the way, and perfectly preserved thanks to the magic liquid nitrogen. I'm gonna taste this word as Bond uh sidecar.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. It's delicious. Okay, caller, you're on the air. We have to come up with a name caller for this drink if we actually like it.
I was thinking something California-based. Is there an easy rider cocktail? There is now. Because he had did he have a sidecar on his motorcycle? No, he of course not.
He didn't he was completely unsocialized. He didn't like people. Like, why would he want another person with him on his bike? Anyway, uh, go ahead. Hi, my friend.
This is Dana Corey. Hey! Dana, Dana Corey, also from Booker and Dax. Uh my question, my question is what's your fascination with dairy, man? My fascination with dairy.
Okay, Dana, Dana, Dana Corey. Tell the story. Dana Corey. Well known, afraid of milk. Like a fear, afear.
A feared of milk. And this being a family show, I cannot tell you the story. But if if Dana comes over to existing conditions sometime after we open it, anyone who can hear our voices comes, we will tell you the story of Dana Cory and milk. By the way, the interesting thing about this story is that this is a story that could make someone afraid of milk who was not already afraid of milk. Dana Dana showed up with uh uh already with a fear of milk.
It's like Indiana Jones already afraid of snakes, gets dropped into the snake pit. It's horrific. That's good. Yeah, it's real good. That tastes good.
Yeah. Easy rider. How are you doing, Dana? I'm doing great and wonderful. Excited to see the new bar.
You know, just waiting my chance to pop in. Yeah, you go. Dana, you live in the great land of mozzarella, but true or false, like until relatively recent hoboken, by the way. Oh, much, yeah. Yeah, but until until recently, though, you didn't uh you weren't like down with how good your your your mozzarella was, right?
Oh yeah, we it's the best, the best. The best. Even you like it even though it's dairy, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I can actually get down with it.
Uh I have uh breakfast with Robbie Nelson from time to time, and I even had put milk in my coffee. He's witnesses. You're just getting better and better, man. All right, getting better and better. See, I like uh so one of my favorite things because Dana is formerly was uh at Miami, is we like talking about the bath salts murderer.
Remember the bass salts? Oh, yeah. Did he murder that guy or just eat his face? Did that guy survive? I there were several, right?
I don't know. I I don't think I'd want to uh to make it too bad. Bass salts. I think he lived. Bassalt the E T lived.
You don't need a face. No, the Etor got shot to death. The E Tor died. Yes. He was shot to death.
Yeah, bad sense. Miami, give me some Miami. And also, Dana and I both have a love, stupid love, uh, inappropriate love for Quad City DJs. I think. At least he indulges me with my love of the quad city DJs.
Yeah. Come on, Radic train. Chew right now. Anyway, uh definitely excited to see you at the bar. Uh wanna come check you out and you know, have a little fun.
Nice. All right, come by. We won't make you drink milk. We won't make you drink milk. Although we now have cream syrup on the menu.
And we probably have new technology though, so it's a good idea. So here's the thing. One of the problems I had at Booker and Dax pissed me off. Pissed me off for like was that uh no one would get the pumps to so we could pump cream syrup and butter. We're not gonna bring the cold butter syrup, are we back?
Are we that was Dana? Dana's least favorite. Dana, that scared the crap out of me. I never worked with Dana, but I would always hear about once the managers left how he would actively 86 nitro metal drinks. No, no, no, we're out of that.
No, don't have it. Just the lavender drink. Just the lavender drink. My other uh, my other favorite, my other favorite Dana thing, and I don't I wasn't actually there for it. I missed it by a couple of hours.
Was uh we very, very rarely, rarely had to throw people out of Booker and Dacks. Yeah, yeah, we had a good crowd. But someone came in and touched one of the crew. Like, someone came in and touched one of the a female crew member. Like kicked Dags, I thought.
Really? He just tried like just like like like leapt from behind the bar, picked up this human, and threw him like garbage onto the street. Super impressive. One of the big guys. Yeah, he was good.
But I could just see that. Like no facial. I can see Dana with no facial expression at all. Just being like, nah. And then just like turning around the bar and just like hurling this dude out onto the street.
Amazing. Good times. Good times. Good times. Hey, uh, Dana, are you familiar in Hoboken with the clam broth house sign?
Yeah, yeah. Oh, here we go. Clam broth house, man. Righty. Clam broth, right?
There's one that's hit, and there's one here. There's one over there, and there's one right here. Get your clam broth. All Steve Ador is 50% off. Yeah, yeah.
I totally want that clam broth house sign, man. We gotta steal that some gun. We gotta build a clam broth cannon before we have this. Yeah, you gotta steal that for me, Dana. And the other thing is that uh, you know, uh, you know, partner in crime, Don Lee, evil cocktail overlord, who could not be here today because we have a tasting with press, you know, opening business, so he like um he is like no one likes clam broth, and I won't serve it at the bar.
I'm like, dude, clam broth is like clam chowder minus everything Dana hates, minus the milk. It's like clam chowder minus the stuff you don't like. That seems to me make a bloody marry out of that. There you go. I think it's hot though, man.
That'd be like kind of nasty. We gotta build the hot broth cannon. Do you guys remember at Booker and Dax? Every year we were invited for the uh Bloody Mary contest. Every year we did something conceptual, and every year we lost.
We once did the the hot uh the hot tomato soup, Bloody Mary, and served it with a grilled tree sandwich. Yep. I recall. Yeah. I had to track down uh craft singles uh cheese in a snowstorm.
It was great. Except no other. Uh yeah, but it was cold as hell, and we're serving like grilled cheese sandwiches, and we still didn't lose because we're like, it doesn't taste like a bloody marry. Duh. Duh.
It tastes better. It's better. It's a grilled cheese sandwich. Who doesn't like if you can eat cheese, you like a grilled cheese sandwich, right? That's a fact.
Yeah, I mean, that's just straight delicious. Straight delicious. All right, all right. So wait, stay on in case anyone has it. By the way, Dana's caller in the case.
I want another caller, but Dana also goes to these very kind of not well known um like cultural things on Cape Cod. Are you allowed to describe those or are those super secret? No, what cultural things? The one the special like events where people beat the crap out of each other at Cape Cod. Oh, fireball, yeah, yeah, fireball.
Yeah, yeah. So talk about this. Oh, yeah, fireball. It's uh yeah, it's uh once the sun's gonna like this. This is yeah in uh at the Pow Wow.
In Mash P, right? Yeah. Uh they play this game, they gather everyone together, and they have two opposing teams. Uh uh just in young males as kind of like a ritual ceremony. And they light this damn ball on fire.
It's a bobwire ball that's lit on fire. And you have to get it from from one end of the post, which is also lit on fire, to the other end. So uh yeah, there's a lot of burnt hands. Everyone's hands look like like Mickey Mouse at the end of the event because it's all swollen, it's all cut up. And that's that's close to chest everywhere.
It's just a ball of fire just flying around. You said it's close to mash pee, right? It's close to that. Every single yeah, yeah, mash pee mash cheese. Mash P the best name ever.
So do you have like like a motor? Are you on a motorcycle right now? But he uh motorcycle or some sort of uh thing. So what what would you eat and drink while you were throwing fireballs at each other in Mash Purtle soup? Uh turtle soup, turtle soup, turtle tumor soup, turtle soup.
Yeah, so the yeah, anyway, anyway. Anytime I drive by Mash P, I'm like, Mash P, and Booker's like, not funny, Dad. That's how it goes. Anyway, someday you'll invite me, I'll go and I'll get someone throwing a flaming ball at me, and I will light on fire again. Although I hope to never light on fire again.
It's nice and serious. No, no, no. Yeah, bet. We'll be there. Uh the only thing is that there's trick about filming, um, because it's a very ritualistic thing.
But yeah, definitely bring the boys, bring the family. Uh, and we'll be down there this fourth of July checking it out. Oh, 4th of July. I don't know. We'll talk about it.
You talk, you come to the bar, you talk. All right, you're talking. All right, cool. Uh, Dave, we got uh who do we who do we got? Uh we got another caller on the line.
All right, caller, you're on the air. What's up? Hey, how are you? Uh long time, first time, first time, long time. Uh, I'm actually from London, but I now live in Boston and spend an inordinate amount of time at Mash P Commons, and I've never seen what you're like contributor to that.
But that's aside. My question is I've recently fallen in love with Negroni. Okay. And I was at the American bar in the Savoy in London, and he sold me on a best cow Negroni, which was actually rather good. My question is, well, can we make a Negroni out or dropping the gin and stubbing it for something else?
Okay, this is perfect because we have Stacey Swenson here. Okay, I'm gonna let I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna give you your time, Stacey. But let me let me let me just say one thing. Like, I am Yo, I'm gonna let you finish, but I'm gonna let you finish. I'm gonna get your time.
But like my issue is is that like, and we can have this argument after after we hear the answer, but uh is it really a Negroni still? Or is it a different drink? I got into almost a knockdown fight at the bar last bar meeting I had because I was like, every damn drink, according to you, every damn stir drink is a freaking Manhattan. Every freaking thing. It's either a Manhattan or a martini.
I got in a huge fight. Any libel. No. All right, so go ahead. Go Negroni.
Um, okay. I don't think we need to be so strict about what we call Negroni, but if yeah, whatever. There's there's a different, there's a there are many schools of thoughts. I guess I guess that the Negroni is just a building block for a cocktail, just like a Manhattan would be, right? So I think a Manhattan, I guess a Manhattan and Martini would be the same building blocks, right?
And the Negroni is a and a Negroni is a different thing. It's pretty much pretty much exactly the same drink. Um yeah, we definitely stretch our imaginations a little bit when we're when we're building Negroni's, and um you can pretty much literally do use any base spirit, and if you switch up your bitters and your vermouth, you can make it taste good. It's really hard to make it not taste good. Basca drapar.
That's the beauty of the Negroni. I uh I personally think that Kampari kind of won the uh won the fight for the Negroni. I think you can now make a Negroni with any three parts as long as there is a strong, a sweet, and then Kampari. So doesn't need why does it need to be Kampari though? There's so many red bitters out there that you can just I agree.
I'm just from a branding perspective, I think I think Kampari kind of has been fighting has been fighting that fight. And Kampari's still agreed. Well, I look at this question a lot when people ask, well, I thought a Negroni has to have Kampari. I don't know, like does it have who who makes these laws? I think I think I think Aperol is a legit, still legit less alcoholic, sweeter less bitter.
Sure, but we've got Luxardo bitter, Contrado bitter, like there's several other do you carry that do you carry the Luxardoxardo? Yeah we use it in our boulevardier why like why that as opposed to a different one I mean do they pay you it's almost as if they did R D and then decided it's the one they like sure that's the I'm just saying like what's the what's I don't know enough about it honestly because we never carried it right oh sorry it's a decision that came a little bit before I was there but um there's a reason why we use each bitter and each cocktail we also want to keep you know a variety on the menu I mean I know for me a lot of times it's I use that because they literally paid for an event and then I don't want to change it because it we wrote the spec with that sure I that might have that might come up in sort of some some decision making caller how how close are we to answering your question oh my god you're you can say that again caller yeah you're turning into Darth Vader or you're totally fine your robot voice sounds like he's going through a cerez all right I wouldn't want to add that if you're gonna use um a base spirit that's as intense as mezcal then maybe lighten up your bitter a little bit and so use something like Aperol or maybe like a like capilletti or something that's not as intense unless you really want like a punch in your face kind of cocktail which I think a mezcal Negroni is Mescal is a huge range though. It can range from like super light to like super hardcore. Mr. Del Maggie do you have any comments on this?
What if there's also like, would you at least agree? Steakbone, would you at least agree mescal well for Vita, because so if you're you're gonna use a mascal, that's cost effective in a cocktail. Right, and most of um I think most of them are super smoky, the ones that are like Vita, for example. Well right, mixed base, mescal tequila, mixed base. I like a mixed base.
Alright, so you go doesn't like a mixed base. Hey, hey No, to lighten it up in a drink, to lighten it, you know. But uh you also agree, like you like white. You still like a white spirit, not like a like an age spirit in a Negroni, right? Or no?
You could you're like, I could do anything, anything. I can't. And with an A spirit is a ball right. Now what about a Kingston Negroni? What's that?
Jamaican rum. What kind of Jamaican rum? Smith and cross. Jamaica, right? Yeah.
Isn't it made somewhere else? Smith and Gross? It does say it does say London rum or something like that. You know, it's a historical I don't care. I don't care where it's from, it's delicious.
It doesn't really matter. We'll call Wendrich. We'll we'll get to the board. Yeah, sure. Have we answered your question?
Basically, compari like compare and vermouth mixed with things taste good in almost any ratio. And hopefully answer my question. Um my final follow-on was what do you reckon? One big cube of ice, lots of ice, or just straight up? What's the right ethica?
Um, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm gonna give you a I'm gonna give you a four beat. How much of your cocktails left? Right. Yeah.
So like I mean, I would down it. That's just me. Then you don't need ice. Serve it up in a chilled glass. I mean, stir it on ice first to the case.
I thought he meant service-wise. Service-wise, but I'm just saying. If you're i if if if you're gonna be like yakkity yakkity, yakity, yakity, yakity, yakity, yakity, yakity, yakity, yakity, yakity, then serve it on a big cube. Big cube. The trick is Negroni doesn't like being too warm, correct?
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's like that's one of the things. I gotta say, Dave, I I'm less yakity yak, more drinkity drink. So great answer.
So keep it up. Thank you. Thank you. And by the way, people, never ever, never ever order a double anything. Just say, give me one now and make me one in exactly three minutes.
You know what I mean? Like that's the correct answer. Every drink is a double now. Dave, I just spoke to the bartender inside of Roberto's. He said he substitutes Suze for the compare.
Oh, Suze. Boba White Negroni. Suze. Suze, like, which one of you is a Suze freak? Ann Robinson's a Suze freak.
I love Suze. We're all Suze freaks. Yeah. He's making my one right now, so. You dirty, you dirty, dirty.
Oh, why? Oh, because we didn't make you a drink. Yeah, that's right. It's not too late. I'll shoot you.
So we're gonna make you uh whatever we're gonna call it. Do we like easy rider? What do we like for names? I'm always always terrible at naming things. Gentle rider.
Dave, quick break while we got it on my own. Take a break. We'll come back with more cooking issues. This episode of Cooking Issues is brought to you by Bob's Redmill, an employee-owned company that has been offering organic stone ground products for decades. Dave, we have a question from Kat this week.
I've seen the Sears all being used to caramelize sugars on brulees and other desserts. What type of sugars work the best? Okay, well, I sincerely encourage you to all go purchase Searsols on Amazon uh calm. I actually use a regular torch when I'm doing brulees without the Searsol head, and the reason is that bruleets don't take on that torch taste uh that you get when you torch things that have fat or high amount uh like high fat like meats or things that have proteins in them. And in fact, a torch is a straight naked torch is a good way to get kind of uh crunchy sugars.
I haven't run the test of different kinds of sugars. I know isomalt crunches up real nice, I know sucrose crunches up real nice, but I haven't tested uh, for instance, like glucose powder or fructose powder on the top of a creme brulee. So I can't really say, but I doubt it works. You want something that holds that you want something that does crystallize nicely, so invert tends not to, so I would I would choose things like sucrose or isomalt or anything that you would use uh kind of in a hard candy situation. You can get a whole range of sugars to test with your searsol at Bob'sredmill.com and use the code cooking issues.
That's one word, all caps, cooking issues for 25% off your order. And we're back! We're talking about the worst things we've ever made. Uh we did a birthday cake, we did a birthday cake bourbon once. Remember that?
We blended up. Oh my god, that's the one. That was delicious. French fried vodka once? Yes.
But that was my Hugo de Papas frites. So it was a lifelong dream. You can make a good jugo de papas frites, but it it it goes like rancid in about a day. That's the problem. Oh, I milk clarified a bottle of red wine recently and then bricks it up to 50, and it was terrible.
It's gonna be a New York sour. No, it's not. To be fair, the wine started as terrible. It's true. It's trash wine to begin with.
It like you would not drink the wine, so why would you think that as a product it would be good? I didn't want to use good wine and potentially ruin it, but you're correct. You're absolutely correct, and I was a fool. Yeah. Uh yeah, so what else were we talking about?
Milk washing. We were talking about like during the break, we were talking about things we've milkwashed and things we've made, like uh Stacy was saying we did a candy corn cocktail once. Not on the menu. That's the kind of crap that would never go on the menu. It was on the menu, but it was only there for a couple of days.
It was like Halloween weekend. Was I gone? No, you because you came in that day to make it for us. I made it for you? Yeah.
Is that for Dave in the booth? Dave in the booth, come get your cocktail. I really wanted to find a way to layer it to make it look like an actual cake. Oh, Nastasia just left you. Yeah.
Oh man. Total gnar. He won't be able to operate the phones if he has a full drink. I'm gonna take the other half. Alright, go so back.
So we're layering flavors. Oh no, I meant literally layering the cocktail. I was like, let's just layer this cake. I got vetoed on that. The most unpleasant, the most unpleasant cocktail world word is puscafe.
This is delicious. Like cafe. You like a style? It's good, right? No, he's saying so.
Yeah, but do you like it? Or do you hate that Nastasia's hater of everything, so she likes it. If she likes it and it's not uh rose champagne, literally, like as soon as Nastasi walks in the bar, someone just looks at her, grabs an AP wine glass, and dumps a bunch of rose bubbly into it. Yeah, the stars bucket. Yeah.
Stas bucket. I just say, Nastasia, would you like a bucket? That's always yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She never orders anything else.
In fact, we're gonna have to carry some sort of rose sparkler just in case Nastasia shows up. Wait, Dave, have you ever heard of uh Quantro buckets? Ooh, what's this? So I I was hanging out with uh some where many cointro people on Saturday, and they taught me about uh a quantum bucket where basically you take a shot of Quantro, you light it on fire, you put your hand over the top to uh to seal out the oxygen so it's the fire goes out and it suctions to your hand, and then you can like shake it up and then you take the shot. It was I know about this.
The guy who used to work for at a recording studio claimed he did this to women all the time to impress. What? Oh, he did it to himself. You light a woman on fire, you throw her in a cup, you put your hand over them. Very impressed.
To what part of the woman is foundation. I don't know, man. You need yourself some new friends, man. Oof. Anyway, so it do you like the I mean like we all know that burning liquor is good.
We do that all the time. Yeah, all the time. We're gonna have the red hot pokers at the new joint. Pokers are back. Yeah.
It's a little late in the season. I thought we'd be open months ago. Anyway, all right, so while you're making the next drink, I will answer a food related question. Uh this one from okay, I love it when people give me the pronunciation of their last name, because I can literally just look at it. Look at this, look at that.
Look at that. Mail mail your this is from Tom Miliaranza. You have to say it really fast. Tom Miliaranza. But no, but it's the Anza, it's the O N.
That's like I just learned that Joaquin Simo's name isn't Joaquin Simo, it's Joaquin Simo. Oh, wow. Melioranza game change. Yeah. So this way, so this is from Tom.
A lot of Mexican sauce recipes. What kind of sauce? Salves. A lot of Mexican sauce recipes have you heat a little oil in a pan until the oil is very hot, then dump in the sauce which is otherwise made, right? It's already a pre-made sauce.
Think of like an enchilada sauce or something. Usually something tomatillo or tomato based to quickly reduce, and as the recipe often claims to sear it. A lot of people say they fry it. They're frying the sauce after it's made. Anyway, this usually results in the sauce violently hissing and spurting, leaving a mess all over the counter, up the walls, on the cook, etc.
You ever got boiling sauce in the eye? It's sucks. I'll tell you something else. When I was younger, my eyes were fast. My uh my little membranes were quick.
Isn't this a is this a nictitating membrane in your eyelid? Is that what that is? Anyway, so like it closes it close real fast. So I never used to get hit in the eyes. But now that I'm getting older, my reflexes aren't so good.
Blinking issues. And blinking issues, and like and uh that's why I had to go to the hospital and get like a big piece of metal uh carved out of my eye instead of just wiping it off my eyelid like when I was young. Anyways, uh my question is is the idea of searing in big old air quotes a sauce BS. Um is there any reason why the same result could not be achieved by reducing the sauce at a more moderate rate? Thanks, Tom Mellaranza.
Okay, so uh the answer is it is not BS. Here's what okay, but it is a pain in the butt, right? Wait, what's going on? We're tasting, what do we do? This is uh two and a half year old martini.
You are yeah, whenever you have a moment, I'd like to make it. Oh, it's so olive this. Yeah, it smells like it's almost as if it's had an olive in the bottle for two and a half years. In fact, this has a history. That's a dirty martini I could get down on.
There's a particular history to this. Family show. Let's find your uh joke. The okay, so wait. You take you taste, you take it going around.
Alright, you taste around for a minute, and then I will talk about the sauce, and you guys can chime in if you have sauce things. So think about it this way. When you're cooking a tomato-based sauce in general, like uh I've said this many times on the show, but if you come from Boston Italian stock, first of all, it's not uh sauce, it's gravy, and it's not pasta, it's macaroni. So it's macaroni and gravy is pasta with tomato sauce. And the worst thing you can do, because you have to cook the gravy for hours and hours, is burn the gravy because it's not fixable.
If you burn tomato sauce, it is a non-fixable problem. And what does it tell you, the fact that you can burn tomato sauce? What does it tell you? What is it telling you, people? That it gets above the boiling point, i.e., you're having reactions happening at the bottom of that that that um are high temperature reactions, right?
And it's because it's so thick that it can't get get out of the way, it locally dries out, heats way up, and you can get you know uh high heat flavors. This is the reason why a lot of people take a like a very nonstick, well-seasoned cast iron pan and cook down their tomato paste in the like just give it a little heat in the bottom of a cast iron pan with some oil before they cook it to get a little bit of high temperature action on their tomato paste. I don't do that because I'm lazy. But uh people people totally do that. And so on a thick sauce, uh, yes, you can get those kind of cooked flavors.
The trick is to keep moving it around so it doesn't burn, and most of those flavors are gonna happen very soon after you add it because you're gonna turn it down such that it doesn't burn. Now, your problem with sputtering is you probably have more liquid in it at that point than you want, so it's gonna sputter everywhere. And if you have a thick layer of sauce and you heat it up at the bottom, and it's thick, like it's tomato, it's got pectin and other stuff in it, you uh build up bubbles, the bubbles stay underneath, and then it takes a long time for them to erupt because there's no convection. So you locally superheat the sales, it forms a large bubble, and then that bubble pops at the surface rather violently and shoots hot spurts everywhere, which is why always cover that sucker. Always cover that sucker.
What I would do is dump cover, let it for a little bit, stir it, and then turn it down. That's what I would do. Anyway, so talk more uh my my clutter buttons. By the way, I told you the day after you started working, I told you, oh my god, I just had to deal with another clutter buck. How many of you are there?
Just me and that person. Yeah. I've never heard of another one. It's like one of the better names. I think it's one of the better last names.
We killed them all. He killed them all. Donnie wasn't born, he just was. I am the hammer. She ran she ran the permissions for whatever library I had to get permission when I did the liquid intelligence book to use Ben Franklin's recipe.
In New York? She lived in New York? I the Eastern C board. Somewhere here on the Eastern C board. So there's at least four of us then.
Alright, cool. Maybe five. All right. So talk to me about the martini. Alright, so the martini is dated 5'9, meaning tomorrow, but two years ago.
So it's 200, 720 something days old. And it spent the first year of its life in my friend's trunk. Oh, Rochester. So hot cold, hot cold, cold, cold, hot, cold. So this is like Linny.
It's the Linny of Crossing Boards for one year though. So it's seen every temperature problem you can imagine. And it still tastes good. It just has a lot of olive in it. It does have a lot of olive in it.
I think it's nice. You should age them all for two years. And it is this actual, this is the actual BDX Nick Bennett spec? Yeah, this is so you can see Jack's handwriting here. Don't read it.
Don't read it or look at the stick figure. But there's a whole bunch of really great stuff written on there from the old days, right? So Nick, tell them about your uh martini spec here. Umran bitters. I don't remember what it is off the top of my head.
Beef eater gin. Uh we use dole and dry. Three stolen dry. Three-eighths stolen dry. Yeah.
Well, yeah, it wasn't a complete uh half ounce or anything like that. It was um orange bitters and dilution, and then we let it sit with uh in the freezer with a small olive castle Castlevania. I can never remember the actual. That's the only one I could ever think I can ever. It's a Castle Wolf and stuff.
I think it's a little can't taste the same as the Spanish Queens, but they're just like little teeny tiny ones. Yeah, yeah. Well, the the thing is it had to fit in the fit in the bottle, yes. That was the main point. Here is said batch spec I have pulled up.
It's uh 350 mls beef eater, 75 ml driver mouth. This is Dolan, uh 300 mls water, 10 dashes orange bitters. Uh that yields approximately five martinis after we put 150 grams of batch into each bottle with one olive. That's like a five to one. And Nick was like, Nick was like, I'm using beef because you use too much tank day.
And I have I have the uh the service, the service recipe here is it says martini, open bottle and serve. Alright, so some some spec questions. Some uh Nick uh Nick from uh England wrote in and said, give me the spec for the hatchback, give it to me. Well, one sec, let me let me find it. Give it to me, give it to me.
That's uh Karen Jarman's hatchback recipe. And someone else asked for Thundernut spec. Tell us. Thundernut is the hardest drink in the world to make. It takes many days, and you absolutely have to have a centrifuge.
I think uh my second day I spilled the entire day thundern stairs. He's walking up the stairs and tripped up the stairs. To be fair, those stairs were terrifying. Yeah, yeah. All right.
Hatchback. Hatchback is uh one 1,666 milliliters of water. Amazing. Uh 335 milliliters clarified grapefruit, 335 milliliters simple, 335 milliliters compari, a liter of tequila of your choice. We ended up using light.
Light blanco tequila. Cimarron, espalon, cabeza, similar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh 26 drops of saline solution, and then you chill it, force carbonate it, and then top it with a half ounce. Top each six ounce pour with a half ounce of uh clarified lime.
Right. That's a Karen Jarman spec, but she said that she was based that on a drink. Whose drink did she base that on? Isn't it like a siesta, right? Whose drink is that?
Uh Katie's. All right. Sounds like a two-on-two. Yeah, I mean it's like it was a classic, I think it was uh really a modern classic from PDT. Uh the Katie over there.
But how did how did you guys name the hatchback? That was like right before I I showed up. I don't know. So like uh what happened was uh what had happened was that like I remember the story, but I don't. You have to tell me because like we were the opening bar crew, like uh so Tristan and like the opening crew, we all were like, we need names for these dang drinks.
And we just went to a restaurant and just started ordering French fries and booze, and we're like, we're not getting up until we have names for all these drinks. And that's where you're telling me I could have had fries? I've become cheap in my old age. But but I like where did the name come from? I didn't remember.
Well, the the story that I heard, and Nick, you were there, so you can testify. But apparently uh you were all sitting around and you were talking about this this comparian tequila drink, and somebody was like, Well, it's basically like uh like a siesta, like Katie's type siesta. And then Dave or somebody was like, Yeah, like fiesta, and then somebody said, Ford fiesta, and then somebody said that's a win. It's a ball. It really is.
I I tell you what, man, like the thing is is that there's so many different combinations of spirits out there that people get so bent on where the spec comes from. If you here's this is the Negroni problem I was talking to you about, right? So it's like if you start from a like this starts from a the drink that I brought here starts from sidecar. Because I I woke up and well, when I say woke up, I mean paid attention when we were in this tasting with Heaven Hill, and I was like, oh, sidecar, right? So this legitimately to me is a sidecar variant.
Yeah, absolutely. But like if you happen to like start with a flavor and arrive at something that is similar to something else but is milkwashed, has a bunch of herbs in it, and then does a bunch of other stuff that no one ever did, then is it really a variant on that other drink that you weren't thinking about or or not? Like, is our saffron Plymouth martini really a tuxedo? No. It's more of a seersucker soup.
We should have named it that instead of Canary, but canary is a canaries. As long as you call it something different, then what does it what difference does it make? Well, I think you just need to like it's upside down. But that's not where the inspiration came from. That's the thing.
It seems such a jag-off move because it's like, well, it's like a tuxedo, except for it's got yellow chartreuse in it and freaking saffron that we wrap it in fuse. But other than that, exactly the same. And we weren't thinking about the tuxedo when we were making it, and it's an inverse ratio. But other than that, it is a freaking tuxedo. Alright?
Do you think if you landed on the planet tomorrow and you didn't have any idea what any classic was, and you were giving a whole bunch of spirits and then you started making cocktails with them, that do you think that it's possible that you came up with a cocktail that didn't have any sort of precursor to it? You know what I mean? No. Like, do you think it would be possible? No.
No. If it tasted good. You know? Right. So then why are you even stress about it?
It's not I stress about the what I stress about is that I think it comes from the Phil Ward potato head theory is that everyone sees everything as a variant, and I don't think it's helpful from a mental standpoint. What I'm trying to describe to somebody, so in other words, like even if it's unrelated to a Manhattan, a specific cocktail, oh man, so many fights. But if it drinks like a Manhattan, it's useful for the customer who likes Manhattans because they can hang their hat on what a Manhattan tastes like. It's useful for them to know that it's in that ballpark. But if you do a bunch of stuff to that drink, even if it is a brown spirit, a uh, you know, an herbed wine, and some bitters, but it has no taste comparison to a Manhattan, or you've done something weird to it where it doesn't taste like a Manhattan anymore, that's no longer a useful peg for them to hang their hat on, and therefore it doesn't really should fit into the what you talk about it.
It but I think it can also be like when when I was bartending, I think something that helped me was realizing that there are these kind of master ratios in a lot of in a lot of respects. And so that's a great way as a bartender to remember how to make the drink. Yeah. Yeah, but that's the thing. So like, but like at what point is it if you start at one point, even if you start with a basis as a drink and you just mute and you just mutilate the hell out of it until it's something different, right?
Like so, oh well, it's uh it's a Manhattan, it's basically it's uh neat whiskey. It's basically neat whiskey. And then I, you know, I it it needed a little bit of sugar and acid, so I added some vermouth, and then I wanted a little more bitterness, so I added some you know, bitters, and then you know, it was a little too strong, so I stirred it, and then I put like you know, a cherry or a twist in it. So yeah, it's basically straight whiskey. You know what I mean?
It's like it's like at what point is it not straight whiskey anymore? You know what I'm saying? I'm defending everybody. I'm not gonna defend your own. That's unusual.
I'm talking what I'm talking about is I think pe like especially bars, I don't really think they give a rat's behind, to be honest. But I think bartenders, when they're thinking about what they're doing, tend to put too much stock in the precedent of what they of what they're doing and thinking about it that way rather than just thinking about the ratios. And for some re for some things the ratios are golden because they are, you know what I mean? But other times I think you can get hampered by thinking of yourself as just building variants. And you know, from the the like the the Booker and Dax perspective, you guys heard me say it a million times don't start with a different cocktail, start with a flavor that you want.
And so I think that like thinking of everything as a variant of something else, even though it's a useful, it's a useful starting place because you know these ratios, I would rather you think about the flavor you're trying to achieve, and if that's best achieved through something that's very close to a Manhattan ratio with a you know an herbed wine, then you know, God bless. The best thing ratio-wise that you ever forced us to do was the three-eighths measurement because nobody uses that, but it's such an easy way to visualize that amount of liquid in a jigger rather than like fat quarter scant half. You know, like those words have a meaning, but it's not as precise. Normal people don't call three eight. Nobody does three eights.
Yeah, it's literally just you, and it's amazing. Yeah, everyone in the doesn't the penicillin use three eighths? Does it? Is it is oh, is it three-eighths? Honey ginger honey ginger.
Like it's a good drink. Batch it together and make the honey ginger. Dave, you want to take one last call? Yeah, yeah, sure. Caller, you're on the air.
Hey, I I thought this show was about food. I had a food question. Oh, this is shorty Josh Eating the chef in existing conditions. What's up, Shorty? I was curious how we all feel about crispy crabs, bacon mayonnaise, and tomatoes.
Uh well, softies? Here's the problem with tomatoes is that soft-shelled crabs and tomatoes, they don't live in the same season. Soft shell crabs, soft shell crabs are in season. Right. They just came into season.
And tomatoes are kind of always in season somewhere, but we're like a month away from having great tomatoes. I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna let the cat out of the bag at what we're gonna do. As long as there's a lettuce layer between the tomato and the crab. I like it, I like a hot house compared. I like a hot house compari tomato, and everybody won't be any bacon man in it.
It's gonna be a bacon mayonnaise. Everybody knows my favorite fact about soft shell crabs, right? The fact that they when you cut you're breaking up on me. Uh I think you're breaking up on me. I'm gonna start with it.
You're you at the bar right now. It's so it sounds like you're at the bar. Right now, this is how by the way, people, in case you want to know what like my actual life is like, it's pretty much like this all the time. My favorite thing about soft shell crabs is after you rip their gills out and after you cut their eyes off, they bred themselves. Oh, yes.
I'm gonna need to see this technique. I've never seen that. Of course you have. You've made soft shell crabs, their legs are still going. You throw them in the thing and they're like, I will help you.
They bread themselves. Yeah. I was really truly enjoying that big one. I was just listening to it for about 30 minutes. And that, my friends, is why you want spritely soft-shelled crabs, not those dead ones that are on the street that have been baking in the freaking sun.
You want nice ones that are still moving. When you guys buy correct shorty, when you buy when you buy uh razors, do you sit there and do you f do you do you flick, do you flick the muscle? Every time you pull out, you you pull on them and they stretch back. Yeah, and you gotta flick the muscle. You gotta flick the muscle.
That may not have sounded too good for the radio, but I'll tell you what's not a family show. Dana Skinner, who could not be here, came up with the all time bar term. Oh man. I don't know if we can we cannot talk about it. It's it's a method of uh expressing just the right amount of uh grapefruit or orange or lemon oil from a twist.
Yeah, slapping. Yeah, yeah. It's a slap. It's a certain kind of slap, certain kind of slap slap. Tataguchi once broke a glass.
Using that technique. It was incredible. We both swim. Woo. So we could do it.
I had another good idea last night, but you're not gonna like it either. All right. Um I was thinking about doing carbonated oyster shooters. No, why though? Why?
How about we serve you something carbonated and you have your oyster? First of all I'm okay with that. I was just playing around with the idea. I thought it was funny. I don't know, man.
Here's my okay, Shorty. Here's my thing with carbonation. Oh wow, I got booed. Not by not by me. That's Dave in the booth.
So like uh like for me, the issue with carbonation with a lot of things is it takes on the note of unless it's a liquor or a booze, it takes on the note of spoilage. So like back like 10-15 years ago when everybody was carbonating fruit, I was like, bad idea because when you start eating fruit and the fruit's carbonated, you're like, Dev fruit's gone south. You know what I mean? It's like it's not good anymore. Fermenty fermenting.
I have a uh specific question for Jack. Yes. Hold on one moment. Uh oh. Oh god.
Uh this is actually a two-part question. Uh acid grapefruit is not clarified, correct? Isn't Bobby? This is Bobby Murphy. This is Bobby Murphy, aka Vinny Bobberino, aka my cousin Vinnie Babberino, aka Bobby.
Formerly next, formerly a Linia, formerly. And I went to meddle school with Bobby. Yes, and Bobby have known each other forever. He was way cooler than me when he was a year younger. Not fair.
Going for the older. Bobby, sorry, what's part two? Uh, do you want the kin fried chicken lunch special? Yes. Yes, a million percent.
Um you can tell they're at the bar because you can. Yeah, alright. Here uh in the neighborhood. Thank you for taking our call. Uh of course.
Thank you, Shorty. Love you guys. We'll see you soon. All right. So you answer Bobby's question?
What? Yeah, yeah. I I told the people we have a tasting today. I like they called it in a radio show. Acid grapefruit is not clarified, and yes, I would like fried chicken.
Listen, Bobby, it's very simple. Is the drink gonna get shaken? If so, do not clarify. Are you going to shake? Do not clarify.
That's one of the great things about this uh drink here is that there's nothing it's double citrus. If you will shake, it is opaque. There's I stole that stolen from uh Kevin Denton. Okay, you're gonna get a reaction from us on that one. Boom!
All right, that's fair. Please, please, please. But like that's why I like this uh this fake sidecar. This fake sidecar, it's got over an ounce of citrus in it, so it's textured up the up the wazoo. Is it a sidecar?
Oh, there we are. Donnie is it's we're trying to be relatable right now. I started with uh I started with the concept of the sidecar. That's what I'm trying to say. I started with the sidecar and I ended up here.
Started with the sidecar, now we're here. All right, all right, all right. Okay, well, enjoy the rest of the show. Well, it's over now. Thank you guys for taking the call.
All right, thank you. Yeah. This is the kind of arguments we have constantly at the bar. Like we're like every someone has uh an idea, and then everyone else is like, no, you know what I mean? And then like, until until we have uh we gotta get out of here.
All right, listen. I want to thank BDX crew, the best crew anyone could ever asked for. I love all you guys. Oh, I promise. I promise this.
Uh, shout outs to Max Brzewski, barback extraordinary. He couldn't be here, but we love him. Oh yeah. Anyway, thanks. Uh, thanks for coming, and I hope to see you guys at the new place.
You're always family. Thanks. Couldn't believe it. Thank you, Dave. All right.
Thanks, Dave. Cooking! Thanks for listening to Heritage Radio Network. Food radio supported by you. For our freshest content and to hear about exclusive events, subscribe to our newsletter.
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