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Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to like, I don't know, 1245. I don't know, like one o'clock. From Virtus Breezer and Bushwick Brr Brooklyn Joined as usual with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Steve?
We got Dave in the booth. Dave, how are you doing? Good. And America's favorite punching bag father. Oh God.
Peter Kim. I'm like, I feel like this, I'm that guy in WWF when they come out, like everybody just booze. You know what I mean? You're the watch out for the metal chair. And I'm somehow and I I act oblivious to it and go around and pump my fist in there nonetheless.
Even though all the kids are like, boo! Yeah, yeah. Eat it up. Peter Kim, boo. So which wrestling character are you?
I don't know. You gotta look up the most hated. Let's see. Who was the who was the most hated one? When I was a kid, it was the chic was pretty hated.
Yeah. The chic. That's old school. That's an older, that's later, though. I'm dating more of the Randy Savage Hulk Hogan era.
No, she was doing it. Jake the Snake Roberts. Yeah, but like, yeah, so like uh wasn't Rowdy Roddy Piper was a heel, wasn't he? But people liked him, but he was a heel, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah.
Well, there was a point at which well Hulk Hogan's been on both sides, right? So he flipped over. Sure, sure, yeah. Are you Hollywood Hulk? Yeah.
Well, my uh spandex uh underwear says so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but like are you good enough, or do you have my show, Peter? Do you have to pre-perf everything so that it rips off properly? That's a trick.
Like if you're if you're got the real muscles, you don't need to pre-perf your clothing to rip it off. It just rips off. Me, I have to put snaps up the side of my pants to get that to work. I like the image of Hollywood Hogan before each match, like meticulously like snipping out little pre you know, pre-perf in his shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've got to get this right. Gotta rip exactly the right places. Um, Peter, you uh and Dave, you will enjoy this story about Nastasia Lopez that she doesn't even know I'm gonna tell you. Oh, juicy. Getting ready.
Yeah, yeah. So check this out. So, like, there was a business, was a business called the name of the business. First of all, as listeners of this show will know, somehow, if you ended up at this podcast and don't know what's going on, like I'm sorry for you. Yeah, apologies.
Yeah, but uh Nastasia and Mark Ladner opened a quick service pasta restaurant called Pasta Flyer, where my son happens to be working at this very moment. He's rolling meatballs. Oh, well, the apropos of the story. Did we tell the story? Did we tell the story about uh when he had to peel the garlic?
And he started crying. And he started crying and like and like you know, like jabbering in Spanish about how he hated peeling the garlic, and he thought that like the whole restaurant was only gonna do one quart of garlic. So then as soon as he finished that court, he was like, I'm done. Someone was like, shaboom, gave him the next court, and he's like, apparently to the merriment of everyone around him. Yes.
Um, anyways. So I walked by, and so like on the same, literally the same block was another startup Italian quick serve concept called meatball obsession. PS meatball obsession. It says home of meatball in a cup. I didn't realize, first of all, this was a phenomenon that it could be a home of, but let's just say, right?
Meatball and a cup phenomenon. Anyway, unfortunately for them, they they closed, but Nastasia, low quality individual that she is. How do you know it was me? Oh, come on. So I'm walking past there today on the way uh up from the bar.
More on that later. I'm walking on my way up to the thing. And for the like, what's funny is is that people on the street might think this is genuine. Only you true listeners of cooking issues will know where this comes from. There's a pasta flyer notice plastered like like like a band, like like a band is coming to play at Webster Hall.
There's a freaking plasters of pasta flyer notices, and here's what it says. We miss our neighbors too. Need meatballs? Come to Pasta Flyer. Deep.
Deep. Oh man. Meanwhile, the attack. And he's like, unless it's nice. And I was like, okay.
And so. Yeah, Nastassi, I guess in her mind, she's like, obviously, not obsessed with meatballs enough. Obviously not enough. So Nastasia is the kind of person who goes looking for a new apartment in the obituaries. Oh, hey, look.
I gotta be honest, when I have a new wardrobe. That's how I got into the Manhattan. That's how I was able to purchase an apartment in Manhattan was literally posted looking for dead people and found one. Jackals. Oh of you.
A whole lot of you. Well, look, here's the thing. There's only so many slots here in Manhattan. And you know what? One of the ways you get one of those slots is somebody dies.
We all do it. Yeah, it's a circle of life. Yeah, it's the circle of rent. Yeah. You know what I mean?
It's like or you know, whatever. Yeah, so we I would love to stumble on a dead person's Manhattan apartment. Well, so here's how it works. Here's how it works. What you have to do is you have to find a neighborhood that is uh in transition, right?
So like a family-style neighborhood where an entire because a lot of neighborhoods in Man in Manhattan, all of New York, are built up around communities. And the community grows up, lives, and dies in that community. A lot of times, though, the children from a particular generation will start moving to a new community. This is like the succession of neighborhoods, which Peter actually, you could talk about if you want how that affects food and food and culture. It's one of the major aspects of New York City life.
Is how these communities can move typically from lower Manhattan areas or in you know, in specific now hot spots in Brooklyn and Queens, and then they radiate to different neighborhoods as they become more affluent, etc. etc. Dave's like updating the power broker on the spot for us. Anywho, so my whole neighborhood uh changed, uh, and all of who used to live in in my neighborhood in lower Manhattan has moved to Williamsburg. Uh and so when that when the parents of those people die, as they started to do in great numbers in uh in the early 2000s, late 90s, early 2000s up till today, all those apartments come up for sale because none of the kids want to live there.
They're all living with their own families in Williamsburg, and so they're for sale and they're not going into the family. And that's how stuff works here. You gotta, you know, find the next neighborhood where you know people have moved elsewhere, and when they die, they're like, Do you want to live in Ma's apartment? No. Just cash out, get the money, we'll split, we'll split it among the three of us.
Yeah, thanks, Ma. That's right. That's how that's how it goes. Yeah. Uh meatball obsession.
We miss our neighbors too. We miss our neighbors too. And Nastasia all the time is like meep obsession, meatballs meatball obsession. So, can we take a moment to congratulate Dave on the opening and the conditions? We are finally open.
Finally open. I I that was the most asymptotic bar opening. No, you know what? Well, it's anticipated. Well, the the assumption there is we would never actually open it.
Yeah, that was my hope. The joke on asymptotic is that you never actually reach it. Yeah. So, like in the limit towards infinity, we open, but that we're going to be able to do that. You're always taking one tiny step closer, but never.
I thought the joke was going to be putting the ass back in asymptotic. Oh, somebody should put him on this show. You're welcome. Nice, dude. He is on the show.
Oh, I see. That's a good word. Anyway, congrats. And uh for what it's worth, I mean, I went on Friday and it was amazing. That's a lie.
Peter Peter is a good friend. Peter is a good friend. Unlike Nastasia, Peter's a good friend. You did go on Friday. It was not amazing.
Yes, it was. Really? The drinks were amazing. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. People. People, let's talk about this. People. People.
Friends and family. If if you're doing a restaurant or a bar, please. Like uh, friends and family is so important. Our ticket times were ridiculous. Like the ticket times were just bonkers.
Our POS system wasn't up and running. Um, yeah, so the the first day of Friends and Family, I can't believe we only did two days of friends and family. I would like to do more. Look, everything's a a mix, right? It took us so long to open, as Peter said, Asymptotic opening.
Oh, you'll enjoy this. I'll tell you after. But like Asymptotic opening, um, it took so long to open, and we're burning through like personnel and money. Nastasia, you're familiar with this, right? And so and so then you're like, okay, well, how many days of friends and family do you want to do?
Because then you're burning through wages, like hard wages, and not just like prep wages, hard wages and product. I brought my own. Wow. Really? You brought your own wine?
Oh my god. For day two. That's the worst. You know what? It's like almost like saved new product.
It's almost like maybe everybody should have done that. Come to see conditions with their own wine. Yeah, yeah. The Corkish fee is I hit you over the head with a bottle. Exactly.
But the uh the thing about it is uh I think if Nastasia was like like a normal civil person, no one would know what to do. You know, like if she if she literally on Friday, she came in and ordered wine and so beat the server down that he wrung it in even though we had no wine in the building. Wow. Because our wine order didn't come until yesterday morning. She also heard, oh, kitchen slammed.
We'll have one of everything, please. I know. Oh, I came to the table and she's like, What'd you get? She's like, one of everything. I'm like, you would.
You would. Well, because I knew it wasn't all gonna come, they were gonna forget, so we were gonna get some. Which is Oh, so you take the kitchen down with tickets? No. Yeah.
The kitchen like anyway, the point also is is that in friends and family, it's harder because in a b in a in a restaurant, the assumption is everyone's gonna have a full meal, so people order stuff, the kitchen's prepared for that. At the bar, the assumption is you're only gonna do about 25% of your sales in food. But in a friends and family, people over order food. So the food ticket times get, you know, get you know, we we we we soaked the kitchen in blood and then wrung it out that night. You know what I mean?
In terms of like just slamming it. And um compared to the first night where people were actually spending money there, like it was a lot smoother, a lot smoother. But anyway, but also, you know, we spent so much time doing our like, you know, cold wells and cold plates and carbonation and all that like Rasimal Tasmal stuff, that you know, it's it was hard for us to fit in like the normal staff training. Like here's how here's how the ticket prints, you know, here's how the all the stuff and all that stuff's super important. Your POS goes down, which you know, point of service, which also stands for the I just always in my head when I say POS, I'm thinking Yeah, pieces, you know, sack of Shivo.
And I'm like, you know, the It's like if that thing goes down, your the customer experience is totally ruined, and they don't know. They don't know why. You know, like if you've never worked in a restaurant before or never had to use a POS system before. And when you hear our POS is down, you're like, what does that mean? I don't care.
I don't care. Like, you know what I mean? But like, or you're like, why can't you, why can't you put $15 on mine and 3285 on on his? Come on, man. You know what I mean?
It's like, you know how many buttons I have to push and like thingamadoodles I have to do, and then I have to keep PLS's are a pain in the butt, right, Nastas? Mark won't even use it. Yeah, lucky. That's how I was at Booker and Dax. Now I I have to work, dude.
I have had to for the past like three nights, I've had to work the floor at the at existing conditions. I hate working the floor. I thought I told you we were gonna do it. Yeah, right. I was like, hey, order order something or don't.
It's all the same to me. No, I can go back into that mode. Yeah. I was I was amused to see you uh in front of house. Oh my god.
Yeah, not a natural fit for you, man. I feel unsafe. It's like it's this is like a whole thing, like, you know, like hanging out in a kitchen, I feel safe. Hanging out behind the bar, I feel safe. But uh front of house is all about small talk, man.
Or like you do small talk. Or it's like it's like it's like you're like, you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know, and then like eh, it just it's a nightmare. I just feel completely I detest it. Can you instruct your servers to never use we?
That well, they have they didn't say we no no they never came up, but it's just a little bit more. Oh, we had that conversation. What are we asking? How are we doing today? We enjoying this.
No, that's not allowed. That's not allowed as it's either we're like you are taking our order. No, but like we we the rest we the restaurant or the we the bar prepare something in a certain way. That's fine. That's right, yes.
Yeah, yeah. But we including people at the table plus the server is but it is true that I am eating half of your food on the way out. I mean that's just you know, yeah, that's just true. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Yeah.
Uh so yesterday, get this, get this. So you're also totally beholden to the the your POS system because there is no like the POS system now, because we're not in the days of writing things on pieces of paper and yelling them at the at the bartenders or yelling them at the cooks to call the orders in. The POS system is literally how the the bartender or the chef is told to cook your cook or make your product, right? So if it takes you a long time, there's a problem with the POS, your stuff doesn't even start getting made until the stuff at the POS system is ironed out. So it's like adding a huge amount to the ticket time.
We're aloha. We're we're ironing the stuff out. But yesterday I think that's what they use here. Alooha. They tried switching to square for a couple weeks and it was like a dismal failure.
Apparently, like square is one of those things where it like works for 35 seconds. People are like, oh, why doesn't everyone use this? Ah you know, because it breaks. That's all anybody was talking about here for weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because once it breaks, your toast. So yesterday, for some reason, Aloha was like, you know what? Let's wait and see how this whole bar thing works, whether this is gonna work out or not. Yeah, before, you know, we let you, I don't know, charge credit cards. Like, maybe you should be a cash-only business until like, you know, we let you process credit cards.
You know what I mean? So we're like, oh crap. So we had to do what's called offline processing. So for those of you that don't know, if the internet's if the series of tubes known as the internet's goes down, you have to process the credit cards offline, and then everything has to be reconciled within 24 hours, right? So otherwise the person who you charge can be like, I don't remember going to that bar.
You know what I mean? And then you're out all the money. So what happens is is like we're like, okay, okay, okay, okay. This thing's gonna be working within 24 hours. We're gonna swipe offline.
And when you swipe offline, by the way, you have to press the button like 85 times. Tell a manager, tell a manager that your system doesn't work. Yeah, no crap. Every time I swipe it, the manager tell the manager, I am the goddamn manager. You am the manager, yeah, yeah.
You know what I mean? And it's like, anyway, so like we're swiping it in, and then Aloha was like, Aloha was like, you know what? This charge is more than a hundred dollars. Maybe it's a fraud, and then it was declining all of the offline charges over a hundred dollars. So all the four tops, like anyone that was like, you know, having more food or or beverage at their party over a hundred dollars, and it was just balancing them.
So we were running people's cards four and five times. That's and they don't understand POS, so that's super embarrassing for the guest, right? So, like you're coming, you're paying, and like all your credit cards are getting declined. You think maybe this is like some sort of like you know, a movie situation where your identity's been stolen, or like Glenn Close is gonna come murder you or kill a rabbit or something. Oh my gosh.
And it's like you're like, and so like it's super embarrassing. So after the fourth time, we were just being like, it's on us, we're really apologize, come back again, and then we had to give them the yeah, our comps were banana llamas because the but would it run the the ticket even without processing? Yeah, because we run the ticket beforehand and then we close it at the end, and then it declines it, so we hit comp it up. So, like Don runs like you know, basically through the jumps through the window outside so he can get on the on the uh on the phone. They've thankfully picked up the phone and they're like, oh yeah, has to be on a hundred dollars.
So then this is the idiots we looked like. We had to sit there and split everyone's check up into sub 100 increments and run their card like four or five times, and then you're at the table, they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So, did you charge me like 23 times? And we're like, Yeah, yeah, and it's like, oh yeah, I'm sorry, the POS doesn't work, we're Jamokes, you know what I mean? It's like it's a whole thing.
It's a whole thing. Oh, geez. And nobody likes for their check. Look, as soon as they ask for the check, they want it to be quick, smooth, and clean. That's all people want.
They got clean, they want to get out. You know what I mean? Ugh. So what why is it that it you had to go under 100? Is that at that setting?
Set that way, you know what I mean? And that's not something we can change or knew about. That's a feature crazy do you have the number and all that stuff to call the emergency number? Don has it. Don's going to tell us the cocktail.
So if any of you want to see a real, a real poop storm. Oh man. Peter, we should go back. Yeah, come like next Monday or Tuesday night I can help you serve Dave let's go and just cause trouble come and cause trouble no Nastasia imagine Nastasi's I'm a great server oh Nastasia is the worst at understanding what she's good and bad at all right then I shouldn't be teaching your son anything I guess that's what I said I didn't say I didn't say you're bad at everything I didn't say you're bad at everything I said that like okay here's another story I told this many times on the air Nastasia comes up to me Dave I'm really good at darts I'm like Nastasia greatest hits yeah I'll say it I'm like it's the classic thing people can understand right away she has no sense of whether she's like she thinks she's good at certain things if I care you know that if I care I do well you seem to you seem to care enough about darts you didn't talk to me for like three days after that the dart incident that was our she's like you barely beat me I was like yeah but I also suck that's when you gave me my review what yeah that's the day that like I irritated your friend oh yeah yeah right yeah yeah didn't say goodbye Nastasi was so mean he was like he didn't not say goodbye he just doesn't know you exist he didn't oh yeah yeah way back in the day he just doesn't think you're worth the air that you read he's like he's like he didn't even know you were here it's like it's like you know by the way heritage radio as a as a uh a bar warming gift has gotten uh gotten us a fern a fern, because it's a low level plant that is planted in a replica of the heritage Radio container Studio. Super cute.
It's adorable yeah we keep ours. Oh wait, we don't have one. Zing. Anyway. Are you want to take a cough?
Yeah, sure. Caller you're on the air. Hey Dave and the crew. How are you doing? How you doing?
Oh well, this is AJ from Charleston, South Carolina. I came across something new the other day I wanted to ask you about. Um carbonated salsa. Okay. You heard of?
No. Uh I had a jar of paste salsa verde um in my fridge, and it was well within its expiration date, but it had been open for about a month. Um and when I opened it up, I didn't hear any like fizzing or anything, but according to the dish, everything seemed normal when I tasted it. It had a light alcohol taste, right? Um, and when I looked at it had the actual bubbles coming up, and then as I ate it again, the um alcohol was had like that bite of carbonation.
So it was actually pretty like dense. Um so first off, I wanted to ask if this is something you would think is safe. And I did have two bites of it um before deciding maybe I should think about this. Um it tasted um actually better. I liked it that way.
Yeah. Uh wait, so now uh your phone cut a little bit out. You so it had been opened and then put back in your fridge. Yes. So it had been opened in the refrigerator for about one month.
Well, I'm surprised that the uh paste corporation doesn't put um benzoid or some sort of stabilizer in it to prevent yeast from going. Was it did it taste more yeast or does it taste more lactic acid? Uh more lactic acid. Yeah. So I'm surprised that uh I'm surprised they didn't put something to stabilize it in, but I mean I guess kind of kudos.
I years ago I did a uh fermented salsa where I uh did a lactic acid pickling of the tomatoes and they got like a little a little fizzy and then used that to make a salsa and I thought it was delicious. I loved it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it was really tasty.
Yeah, I thought it was really, really good. I've never seen it sold in a store. Uh but look, you're I uh at that acidity at the acidity level of tomatoes, um, you know, most salsas are fairly acidic. Uh anything that grows in that and they're also, you know, somewhat salty, ain't none of that stuff gonna kill you. So if you like the taste of it, I mean I'd say go for it.
Unless it was moldy. Mul you know, mouth. No, it wasn't. Always check for that. I don't think uh I don't think the stuff that's growing in that is gonna harm you any.
In other words, I'm uh not I'm not a a uh a food safety microbiology expert, but at my house, if I like the taste of it, I'd eat it. Gotcha. And then to go along with that, is there a reliable way you think to repeat that? Um, just like on its own, or do you think if I wanted to actually do that, I should dope it with some um uh cultures or lactic acid or whatever to simulate that again. Yeah, the latter.
I would uh you could like if you have any a good way to get like uh I mean obviously every medium's a little bit different, but like before if I want to kick start something, if I have some sauerkraut, some like un unpasteurized like live sauerkraut in my or whatever in your kitchen that you like, uh you could like dope a little bit in just to get it started. Although a lot of times th those cultures are in pretty bad shape by the time you're they're in your fridge 'cause they're not like hyperactive. But it's probably better than nothing, you know what I mean? Okay. Yeah, or if I start some fresh sauerkraut and then uh just add some in next time I'd bake it.
Yeah. I mean well, the one thing that I would say is that um salsa salt levels aren't like as high usually as kraut, so I don't know how stable a lactic versus other like stuff you're gonna get in it. You might get other ancillary stuff, but as long as lactic takes over, I don't think you're gonna have anything um from a health perspective negative growing in it. You might have off flavors in it, but I don't think you're gonna have anything that'll you know take you take you or your family out. Okay, so if I go by my senses, I can trial and error and try to maybe make it again.
I mean, someone on the uh, you know, Dave, uh see whether anyone out there disagrees with me on the on the thing, but tomatoes specifically are high acid, and in salsa you're also typically adding more acid in the form of lime and salt. Um I don't particularly think the the chilies are gonna have or or the or the alliums are gonna have any major, I mean I have some, but major bacteriostatic effect on it, although I know that alliums do have some bactericidal stuff, but I don't think enough to um trust to stabilize your your product. Um so, but I mean they're a minor component. I would say it's mainly tomatoes, acidic, and salt, good, and you know, lime, good. You know what I mean?
So I'd say I would eat it. If it tastes good, I would eat it. Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your help and still enjoying the show after years.
Thanks. So thanks for thanks for listening. Not me, I'm gonna disillusion. Yeah, have a good one, guys. Bye bye.
You know what? Your dietary choices. What was it? What? I can't remember what it was.
Well, it's choices? By the way, I'm a little loopy today, so if I answer things crazy, I'm uh don't have very much sleep. This is an opportune time. Oh yeah. Oh, me, me, me, me, me.
I'm not me, me, me. This is the sound. Nastasia. When I combat the Dave about, oh, I've been working so hard. I didn't say I was working hard.
I didn't say I was working hard. I've been I've been I've been watching Westworld. I've been watching Westworld. I haven't been working, just Westworld. I'm kidding.
You guys suck. I one point I at one point I think I I sent you the beaker video. Yeah, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. So good. Me, me, me, me, me.
So uh, see Nastasia, I'm like, oh Nastasia only got two hours of sleep. Oh, must be nice. Yes, that's right. That's the classic old school chef thing. Yeah.
You're like, oh my god, I pulled a I pulled 14 hours. I'm always doing worse than you. Must be nice. Half day. Yeah.
Oh, we're the worst people in the world. We really are. It's like this is one of the things that needs to go away. It's like we're talking about like hiring uh hiring host patients. We really have to staff up.
We're understaffed. We thought we could pull it off with fewer staff. And there, you know, look, when you're when you're when a large portion of your staff is in the tip pool, it's not so much saving the house money that's the most important, although obviously house wants to save money, but you don't want to water the tip pool down too much because then it's not good for your crew and you can't get the same caliber of people to stay because they don't get the same take home. Anyway, uh I don't know where I got so so you need marking. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah. Uh they're they're they're they're in the in the process of of uh of staffing up now. I don't know where I even started with that. I don't even know what I don't even know how I got into that. That's how that's how that's how I didn't.
But the um me, me, me, me, me. Yeah, yeah. Alright, let's take a quick break so you can like recover a little bit. Alright, hold on a second. So Nastasia though.
Oh boy. So the thing that the thing about the thing about the thing about it is is that you already told the meatball story. This is what uh jerks, jerks, jerk, jerk, eat antelope, poop, and die, jerk. That's another Wesley Rose quote, like slightly uh slightly made nicer. Um but honestly, it's such a in a way, like hard business.
We were talking about hiring the host, and we're like, what is a living wage for someone? Like this person, typically the host is not in the tip pool, right? Uh for a lot of places, they're not in the tip pool, although Booker and Dax they were in the tip pool. But like, how much like they need to be like a smart, friendly, like, you know, well dressed person. Like, what is that require?
They have to live in New York. It's crazy. I don't know how like, you know, I don't know the whole industry doesn't. I don't know how it works. The industry doesn't work.
And that's how you get this dumb stuff where someone's like, and and like the mess all those messed up things is that like we're all all on the clock, so now we must be paying OT out of our ears. I don't know what it is. But it's like it's like back in the old days when people weren't following any labor laws or anything like that, especially on the cook side, right? Or side people's like, yeah, they're literally beat each other into the ground and make fun of each other for being reasonable. And it's not cool.
But on the other hand, like you can't charge more for what you're doing because like the market is what the market is, and it's one of the things about the industry that I don't know when push comes to shove, how it how it's gonna sort out. Like, I just don't know how it's I don't know how it's gonna work on a on a fine dining or a like high-end bar or any of this where service is important, like how can you make it work without just grinding people into the earth? Is it just that the rents are too damn high? Yeah. Uh are you a member of the rent is too Damn high Party?
By the way, people who've never been to New York, there's literally a political party here called the rent is too damn high. Because honestly, I mean, that's like the one thing you could I don't know. I mean, because yeah, I don't know where the breaking point is. Yeah. Restaurant owners are not making money, staff are not being paid anything.
Customers are unhappy with how much they're paying. Well, the restaurant owners, I think, like if you get it, I mean, like, I think it really depends. I think the problem is that you try to staff up to do a good job, and it's labor that eats through your your budget. So if you if you can, that's why bars are so genius, because a lot of the labor pools in the tip, which is slightly cheaper for us to run, and your margins are better. So bars are a lot easier, I think, than restaurants.
I think people overestimate, you know, on restaurants, how much you know, money you can actually extract out of that business. That's why the old jokes is you you want to make you want to make a small pile of money, start with a bigger pile of money and open a restaurant. You know what I mean? Like uh I've heard that a million times. Oh, I know, it's yeah, whatever.
But like um, I mean, bars are bars are are easier, but I mean, a lot easier. You can if you get your numbers right. It's all about getting your it's all about getting your numbers right. All right, we'll take a break, Dave. Come back, I'll recompose myself, we'll come back with more cooking issues.
So I got some uh I got some steel cut oats from uh Bob's Red Mill. Uh those of you who are in the Cincinnati area might call that uh I get what do they call that? Pinhead oats, I think. And what I like about them, any kind of c uh cracked grain cooking, right? So you think about your grits, your steel cut oats.
What's nice about them when they cook up is they retain uh their grain texture, but because they're cracked, they also get a nice kind of porridgey uh texture. So if you if you like grits, right, uh you will like this the the stone cut uh oats. Now, what I was doing, what's really interesting to me, first of all, I'm a lazy sucker, so I like I like to put them in a in a rice cooker. I make the stuff in a rice cooker. You gotta be a little bit careful with oats because even more so than other grains like uh corn, oats tend to really boil up in your rice cooker.
So it's when it boils up, it's gonna hit the the roof of your rice cooker. But for those of you that have a brain and like scrapple, scrapple is delicious, right? But East Coast scrapple is is usually corn, buckwheat, some other stuff, right, mixed up with kind of pork trimmings and pork offal, right? And cooked into a block and then uh set and then cut and then you fry it up. It's delicious.
But in the in it more in the middle of the country, they make a product called goeta, and goetta is scrapple made with steel cut oats. Now, you can do a quick, easy version of goeta with Bob's Red Mill uh steel cut oats by making your favorite kind of meat stock, reinforcing it with whatever meat you want. You don't have to be traditional, anything you like. You can use sausage, you can use uh you know, pork hawks, whatever, cook that down in your broth a little bit, and then in your rice cooker, your slow cooker, make the steel cut oats with uh make the steel cut oats with that broth that you have, right? Make sure it's nice if it's a nice kind of gelatinous broth because it's gonna help it set up later.
Make sure to cook it enough to cook enough water off. That's the secret of kind of large grain cooking is making sure you add enough water and making sure that as you cook it down, you cook it so that the inside is fully cooked and the moisture level is low enough when you're done that it's gonna set back into a solid block. Right after it's done cooking, you can stir in the meat that you've already, you know, pre-cooked off, set it into a block, cut it and fry it. Go to Bob'sRedmill.com and use the code cooking25. That's one word, all caps, cooking25, with the number two and the number five for 25% off your order.
Yeah, and we're back. So Dave. Yeah, that was the never ending story. Dave, Dave, Dave. Turns out I give more cooking advice in the commercial than on the show.
Yeah. So uh Peter Kim, by the way, pointing out what a low quality individual I am, says, you know, that I came into the studio, said, How are you doing, and immediately put on the headphones because as Peter was responding, and for me, you know, I'm like, oh wow, Dave's asking how I'm doing for the first time in years. Well, you asked Dave. I'm I'm actually, you know, I'm I'm fine. And uh headphones on.
I can't hear you. Trying to talk to you with my headphones on. Jerk. So uh there was a famous homeless guy in New Haven in the late 80s, early 90s called the how you doing guy. So maybe I'm like him.
That was what he was like, it was like a mantra with him. He's like, How you doing, how you doing, how you doing? So maybe on the how you on the new how you can. But I like I said to Dave, at least leave open the possibility of hearing the response to how you doing. That's what I say.
That's the rule. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And you don't have to laugh for stand-up comics.
So uh talking about the story. Do you know that we've had that argument at the bar, at not at my bar, but at other people's bars so many times, and there's always a split among whether you whether there is a social obligation to at least look mildly entertained when you're watching a stand-up comedian. Show it, Dave. That's all it takes, Peter. I gotta take a photo.
That's all it takes. That's all it takes. So I was just telling Dave that I was up in uh Quebec and Montreal. And I was asking what he thought about Montreal style bagels. And I used what Peter did to uh obliterate a college student once, and they're like, they took Peter out to dinner, and they're like, How do you like your dinner?
And his response was no no no. They said this is the best restaurant in our town. We're so proud of our food. And what do you think of it? And he goes, overcooked and under seasoned.
Classic. And then the kid on the other side goes, so how do you get into this business? He's like, don't. Took a long drag on his cigarette. Yeah.
And then crushed it out in the kid's eye. He's like, he's like, I don't I don't sense you have the moxie. I was like, well, what if well, what do you want to do in the industry? He's like, I just would like to cook at NOMA or something like that. That's true.
That is true to say that. Come on. Oh, I won't even repeat what the chef, Chris Lee, said to someone in the kitchen. No, it's a food show. No, it was not appropriate.
And it should not be the kind of thing that's said to people in the kitchens. But it was the equivalent of, well, I can't even actually. So anyway, Montreal bagels, overcooked and underseasoned. Yeah, why add salt. Under seasoned in particular.
What's the deal with the no salt? By the way, people, people, people. If you own some sort of bagel chain, I was at a bagel chain. I won't like throw them under the bus because while there is while there's life, there's hope. Right?
You can change. Yeah. Don't put salt, you know, rock, rock salt, bagel, bagel salt, pretzel salt, on their everything bagels. Yeah. The hell is that?
Yeah. Everything includes salt. It also includes, you know, dirt and and you know, stars and everything. But like everything in bagel sense means the onion crap, the garlic crack, the sesame crap, the poppies, and salt. Salt.
Like clearly. Yes. So if you don't salt your everything bagel. And do it on both top and bottom of the bagel. Well, that's interesting.
I like to have on an everything I like top and bottom, but if I eat a salt bagel, which is what when I was a kid was my favorite bagel, I like the fact that one side's a little less salty. Right. I want some salt. I think for everything though, top and bottom. But I don't understand, I just don't understand the Montreal bagel with no salt.
Although I will say, bizarrely, probably my favorite bagel in New York City is a Montreal bagel, but made in New York City. Well, they're I like black seed bagels a lot. They add salt. They add salt. But they cook it like in the wood oven, like in Montreal, which I think it's a good combo.
Yeah, I have never eaten a bagel in Montreal. I haven't been in probably 20 years, and I didn't have bagels the last time I was there. How was Montreal? How was the food? Food is amazing, man.
Food is absolutely amazing. And we arrived at this really short two like four-week season of this berry called the Camarese berry. I don't know if you heard about this. No. What's it related to?
Uh it looks like a blueberry, but the inside doesn't look like a blueberry. It's sort of an elongated elongated blueberry, and the inside has like a lot of little small seeds in it. And it tastes like a blueberry, but crossed with like a blackberry and a raspberry. And it's really soft. Oh.
A blueberry is an actual berry, and a raspberry is a multiple aikene. So which is it? But I'm telling you that it tastes, but I can tell you that it tastes like both that and the other thing, even though they're both not berries. Kid, you're a punk. You're never gonna make it to Noma.
Although, to be fair, that was the day that Peter walked in on you. Oh god, we're not talking about dinner on you doing what? The best. The best day. I actually look just like the single best day.
She nearly peed herself out. First of all, first of all, I'll give you look, if if people who have actually listened to, God help you, but people who've listened to the like all of the episodes of this show have heard the story probably at least twice. I'll give you the very quick synopsis. We're going up to give a talk, the three of us, museum-related talk. Uh, and on the way up, Peter Kim.
Dave drove Peter Kim, yeah. Peter Kim is in the back, like trying to say he's on an important call to a newspaper that's the equivalent of the penny saver. I'm just building it up. And so Nastasi and I start making fun of him for doing this long interview that he was real bent about with the with the penny saver, which is like you know, like Craigslist on paper. Irrelevant to the story.
No, no, I'm just building it up. Then Peter Kim buys an egg salad sandwich at a gas station. A fine choice. And thought that the green was somehow green eggs and ham food coloring instead of the mold. That he was eating eating on the way up, and he's like, What?
You don't eat like well. Mr. If it tastes good, I'll eat it. Hold up. Not mold.
And then, and not at a gas station. They're like, Well, we found this one in the bathroom, so we restocked it. Anyway, so then we go up there and like I'm real tired for whatever reason. Peter and I'm sharing a room. Peter and I sharing a room.
And I eat it. Me and Peter, you have your own room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so I go in and I think the door is automatically closing. I need to hit the bathroom because of course I'm driving.
So I go in there, my door doesn't automatically close. Nastassi and Peter try to come up. I don't know what the hell the black. Luggage is so I'm like, I so I'm like, but I had both doors open because I ran into the bathroom and the doors open. Oh my god.
And so like they come into the thing, and I'm like, and I can see there's a mirror. It's like you can see it's almost like a mirror. So I'm like, I'm like, put the put the suitcase in and close the door. And Peter hears closer. No, Peter said, what did he say?
And I said, I think he said closer. No, it's close the door. Close the door. And I thought you were saying closer. Closer.
Well, we were walking down the hallway up to your room. We're bringing your luggage or walking up to your room. His hotel room door is open. So a jar. A jar.
Open all the way. So we're like, are you okay, Dave? Like, it's not normal to have your hotel room floor wide open. Peter brings the luggage into the bathroom. No, I don't bring it up into the bathroom.
Dave's like, and yeah, there was a moment of sheer terror. We locked eyes. And um and then, and then later that evening, Peter was in such a bad state of mind. That's when he crushed those kids at that dinner. Oh, yeah.
Peter was like, Oh, now it all makes me bring it up. Never bring it up. No, and Nastasia's on the floor in the hallway. Just I've never seen her so happy as she is right. Right now she's so happy.
She's smiling like crazy. All right, right, right. Brandon Brandon writes in. I recently received a bottle of amylase from Modernist Pantry to use with my spins off. However, I'm having a hard time finding recipes and procedures online or in the manual.
Could you break down a few of her favorite applications? Thanks. Brandon. No. I have not yet figured out the best thing.
Look, here's the problem. Like with Pectanex enzymes, there are multiple different uh pectinase enzymes, but we've pretty much honed in on the most kind of broad spectrum one that does kind of what we need. It's Pectanex Ultra SPL. The issue with amylase, and I'll take a look at Modernist Cuisine, uh Modernists uh website to see which specific one they they're carrying. But the the enzymes that you're using for breaking down amylases are a wide different range of ones.
So there's the ones that are typically just used, there's alpha and beta amylase that are used in in brewing, and they take they do different things, right? So in pectinx, you're kind of just chopping pectin up. But even the standard brewing ones, some enzymes cut in the middle of a starch uh molecule, and some start on the ends and break themselves, um, break it down in in units. They they function in different ways, but it's even further complicated by the fact that the assumption with brewing enzymes is that all the starch has been cooked, right? So you're boiling uh sorry, you're you're you're cooking the starch off and then and then converting it.
So when you're doing like potatoes or anything like this, when you're brute when you're uh making like vodka or whatnot, you cook the starch, then the amylase enzymes can attack the starch, right? They can't beforehand. So there's all different kinds of amylases that are used at different points. They have different uh tolerances to heat, different requirements for heat. Some of them you need to heat up.
So I don't yet have a good recipe, but I have a bunch of different enzymes I'm working with. We're working on it. I don't yet have a good recipe for take this potato, add this enzyme, do this, and it will go clear. I'm first, before I even worry about that, what I'd like to be able to do is knock the starch out of, let's say, oh, I have an apple, but it's got a little starch in it, how do I knock it out? I have carrot juice, it's got a little starch in it, how do I knock it out?
I've got, you know, pick your product that has a little starch. Bananas other than Cavendish that aren't ripe, uh, that are ripe. There are there are, for instance, very ripe bananas that still have a fairly high starch content and won't clarify, but because they're different varieties, they just retain residual starch. How do you clarify them? Don't know yet.
I'm working on it, but as soon as I know, I will tell you, and uh, hopefully I can work on it, you know, more after the bar's up and running. Um writes in Hello, cooking issues team. Greetings and sending my love from Manila, Philippines. I'm a new fan and listener. Um listening my way up starting from the first episode.
I'm currently on episode 10. Uh so apologies if this question has been asked. Oh man, do you have a long, nasty road to home, my friend? 10. Imagine that's like the opposite of having a present to open.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, it's like a it's like a punishment. I once did an art piece where uh it was a remote control and people controlled hitting me in the face with this machine, and I was trying to box it and hit buttons to disable it. So that's how I would win.
So you were just having a remote control pad, and you were trying to strike me, a physical human being, with this kind of like, you know, punching robot, and then I would have to like be able to go in and punch it to disable it before you hit me in the face so hard that I quit. That was how it worked. And it was mean. It was like a long pipe with like a like a piece of styrofoam on the end of it that would spin around and just hit me in the face and then a jab thing, right? Uh where the hell am I going with this?
I don't know. I don't know. Long road the hoe, watching episode 10. So this is like that. It's like, it's like, it's like you know, hooking yourself up to the punching machine, right?
You keep going. Yep. And why did I do that? Why did it, you know, or like the video you made of uh yourself with uh in an elf suit. Yeah, but I wasn't actually getting hit there.
I just jumped into a pillow and green screened myself getting wood chipped. I don't know if you know this, Peter, but I did not actually jump into a wood chipper. That was a cartoon wood chipper. Uh for those of you that don't know, you can look, uh I have it on posted somewhere on the YouTube's. It's called What I'm Thinking About, and it's an old video I did.
I need to get one with better sound quality and better picture. I found one anyway. That was just basically if you want to know what's going through my head at any one time when I'm staring off in the distance and have kind of a vacant semi-smile on my face. It's just this image of a band playing kind of a repetitive tune and me jumping into a wood chipper over and over and over and over and over again. Anyway, um, so Manila Philippines.
Oh, nice! Uh good find. Nice. This is Babe's head. This is completely terrifying.
Kill me. Kill me. Kill me. Saturday is gonna be at the bar? What?
Jack. Shram? No. What? No.
Jack Insley? Jackie Molecules is coming to the bar? Ooh, nice. Hey, what's up? This is Jack Insley.
Wow. You're quick on the board, my friend. I like that. So I'm interested in making a this is back to John and Manila. I'm interested in making a rum cocktail with coconut milk flavored a gelato.
Ideally, it would be something like a pina colada. Now I have the pina colado song going through my dang head. If you like pina coladas? Yes, getting don't don't do it. Don't do it.
Wait, wait. Is that one of those songs that you think about like you do all the other stupid songs? No, only when someone says pina colado, which people don't say to me. No, like how they eventually end up together. Oh, do they?
No. I don't know that I don't know the whole thing. I don't know the whole thing. I just know something making love after midnight. They put an ad out and then they realized that it was husband and wife same ad.
Wait, is Nastasia talking to me about a story song? Yes. You know what? I f I must be having a stroke. Like I damaged my neck the other day.
You're actually unconscious on the floor of existing editions right now. I'm in Westworld. I'm like, is this real? Is this the is this the future? Is this the past?
Yeah. Like, you know, I don't have feeling in my right arm, and Nastasia is talking about a story song. Like life as I know it is is not the same. Anyway. Hell yeah.
Rolling Stone, Street Fight Man, G Samp. You just hit G8. If you like King the Coladas. Wow. Days on the board going going on fire on the board.
Shorty fire burning on the dance floor. Um, I'm making okay. Uh last one. So uh it's putting gelato in a blender and then shaking it with the juice and booze the best way to prepare it, texture wise. No, just add everything to the dang blender.
Why are you blending the gelato and then shaking it? Just put the whole Megilla into the blender. As if you're gonna have a blender at the bar anyway, right? Just put the whole sucker in the blender and do it, right? Do it.
Don't you think Stas? Yeah. Do you like smoothie drinks like like uh milkshaky drinks? Here's what I'm gonna say about this. Uh you're gonna have Harold McEed me.
What uh okay, Jesus. All right, what are we gonna say, Stas? Go ahead. Sure. Go ahead.
I do. Go ahead. I do like it. Go ahead. You do?
For real? Some. Here's the problem. I really like your Italiano Stellyano. Oh, that's good.
But I'll talk about that. So is putting the gelato in a blender and then shaking it with the juice and booze the best way to prepare it. Well, adding saline solution or rock salt change the texture. Yeah, because if you add that, it'll be real salty, but it'll also melt faster if you add enough. Any other hazards I've not thought of?
John, here's what I would do. Look, if you're gonna make a cocktail, you're gonna destroy the texture of the gelato. I'm assuming you're not talking about a float, right? I'm assuming that John's not talking about a float. He's talking about an integrated mixture.
When you add alcohol to gelato or ice cream or whatever, like let's say, let's say you were doing like the classic Bailey's milkshake, which you know, that's what Peter, that's what Peter puts down every night to get himself to bed. Feeds the baby the milk and then pounds a giant Bailey milkshake directly out of the blender pitcher. Just like anyway. Daddy's nightcap. Yeah, my God.
He's like, oh long, gong Baileys. Anyway, so like if you add the problem with adding too much alcohol to ice cream is it melts it ferociously fast, much faster than adding milk. So you can't use a milkshake recipe and do the same uh thing because the alcohol is going to drastically lower the um uh freeze point of your mixture. So you can it's better in a lot of ways to if you're gonna freeze it anyway, is as Nastasia says the way that we make uh we make our stuff is to just use gelato base, mix in your uh alcohol, freeze that as solid as it gets in a bag, and then whiz it in the blender real quick. That's gonna be your best texture.
But if you actually want it to be a milkshaky texture, you're gonna have to um use a real low alcohol content uh because otherwise you're just gonna melt ferociously quickly. Which is why I always look askance at boozy ice cream. And why you just turn into a milkshake and drink it, or just eat the ice cream and then just drink some booze. Eat the ice cream and drink some booze. Yeah.
You could do like a root beer float type thing. I like a root beer float. The problem is is like how much foaming it is. It's hard, it's easy at home, but in a restaurant scenario. Remember when we used to do, remember, were you there when we did the uh we did the uh balsamic soda fig ice cream?
No float. No, that's it. It was real good, tasted real good. People are like you should make the potato ice cream at the bar. So already we have we like I could do it as a one off, or like when we're doing like fun stuff, I could do it, but you know.
Alright, so have it up. Oh, but I next time. Well, Nastasia's gonna think about this. So for I have, don't worry. Do you have stuff to say?
No, I'll be better next week. Okay, so Nastasia, Sarah, Sarah is a touring uh musician, wants to know about. I'll tell her this. She had a question about going to culinary school and being a vegetarian. Um, so that the for those of you that you know don't know, when you go to cooking school, you have to um cook a lot of stuff, right?
And they teach you to cook meat and and all you know, all this other stuff, and yeah, you are tasting a lot of stuff. We had vegetarians uh who were and you know, pescatarians, vegetarians, and people who had gluten allergies, uh, and you know, there's a variety of people who have different um you know dietary strictures. And yeah, so uh any cooking school worth its salt will make accommodations for you uh based on your dietary strictions. The only thing I will say is is they might be better or worse at it, so it might more or less harm your education, right? So if you if if they're a good school, they will figure out a way to have you have the same kind of experience, especially if you can cook it, right?
If you if you don't mind cooking it but just won't eat it. So I definitely say uh you can go do that, but just make how talk to them about it, be very frank, and make sure that they're gonna be honest with you uh about how your experience will be different from the rest of the people's experience. But if you're never going to cook meat again because you're not gonna you're gonna be a vegetarian special, then it doesn't really much matter how good you get at cooking meat, although cooking meat is good practice and cook uh as one of the things that's cooked because there are other you know, the cooking school might not cook other meat-like things enough to give you the experience for for cooking them, other other protein-based things. But I would just have a firm talk. Your other question about uh dealing with sexism in uh the kitchen, Nastasia said she will think more about it, and we'll talk about it more next week.
I hope also next week to finally get in touch with Chris Young about the modernist uh the uh uh Chef Steps uh pickling question that we didn't get to from two weeks ago, uh, and more about backyard cooking and uh walk stations and tandoors next week on and Japanese knives from Russell on cooking issues. Thanks for listening to Heritage Radio Network, food radio supported by you. For our freshest content and to hear about exclusive events, subscribe to our newsletter. Enter your email at the bottom of our website, heritageradio network.org. Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Heritage underscore radio.
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