This episode is brought to you by Cafe Patoshoe, a student union for adults since 1989 in the heart of Indianapolis. I'm HRN's executive director, Katie Mosman Wadler, with a preview of this week's episode of Meet and Three, Heritage Radio Network's weekly food news roundup. This week we're celebrating black culture through the complicated lens of agriculture. We speak to Carla Hall about her uncompromising soul food recipes. And I was like, what am I doing?
Why am I changing my family's history for another culture? We also hear from Gabriela Rodriguez at Harlem Grohn's Youth Farm uptown. About empowerment and you know community resilience building through this work. Um food is kind of just a vehicle. Leah Pennerman addresses feeling like an outsider in the farming community.
I could count on my two hands the number of uh people who appear to be POC, people of color. And so I literally go around little slips of paper and and and say, hey, meet at one o'clock under this tree so we can talk. Tune in to this week's Meet and Three on Heritage Radio Network. That's Meet Plus Sign T-H-R-E-E, available wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues.
This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from pretty dang close, actually. We were here, it took a while to start up, but we were kind of here, you know, from Roberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn. Joined as usual, not by the guests who are eating pizza, because yesterday, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, what happened? They had a staff party, and anytime anyone has a party in Brooklyn, they can't work the next day. Brooklyn, I love you, Brooklyn, right?
But you are the Portland of New York City. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. You can only tolerate so much work at a time.
Only so much work at one time. You know who is working? We got Matt in the booth. How are you doing? I'm Oregon.
I wasn't allowed to come to the staff party. I'm not a real staff. Wait, for real? Oh, I don't know. I didn't ask.
Somebody who's using a circular saw, though. Uh, yeah, oh, yeah. Liam's here. He's fixing stuff. Fixing the crap that they broke yesterday?
Probably. Look, yes. I've said it on this uh on this air a million times, and I'll say it again. The people I have the most respect for in the world regarding this are nomad ENP. Because they will have a party that lasts until the sun comes up, where people in high heels are shredding their $8 billion banquettes and the entire place is coated in filth, and every single staff member has to be, you know, carted away.
And yet the next day they will be open for, you know, three Michelin star service without missing a beat. And you know what? That's that takes balls. Yeah. That's very impressive.
That's impressive. Yes. Right? That is something to be to be uh uh proud of. Not that you should overindulge, but it's still the fact that they are willing to have fun and then do their freaking job the next day.
Not love you rebirds. I'm not saying anything negative. Matt, am I saying negative? No, no, no. He means it with love.
All love. I'll love. I hope the pizza place next door is open. Nastasia is gonna call during the break and find out. If not, we're dropping.
If not, we're dropping the mic and getting out. Anyway. You get half a cooking issues. Half a cooking issues. They interestingly, the first half, instead of usually what you get the second half.
Now listen, I uh I I thought I wasn't gonna get into this, but I can't help myself. Everything I'm about to say, you should completely ignore because I have no uh what's the word? Expertise in in this at all. But last week, uh last week, Kraft Heinz. You familiar with Kraft Heinz?
Mm-hmm. You know, what happened was Warren Buffett, like, you know, they bought a bunch of that, they merged in I think uh, you know, I forget how long ago, but 2015, I think they merged the Kraft Corporation and the Heinz Corporation together. So, you know, a couple of years ago that was uh running, I think, you know, over $70 a share, and on Thursday or Friday it dropped by half. So it's now at like $34 a share because um they had some bad reports, and you know, they had to write down, I think $14 billion in what's called goodwill on their brands, Oscar Meyer and Kraft and all this. And so the stock went way the heck down.
And I'm saying, how the heck low can Kraft Heinz get? I have been researching, I don't know how to do it, how to buy, I want to buy uh options. I don't know how to do this because I'm not a not right now, but eventually in Kraft Heinz, because all these people who are my age, idiots my age, are saying that these brands that somehow Kraft Heinz is gonna keep going down and down and down, and again, ignore anything I'm saying, I have no financial knowledge at all. But I was like, how far low can you go? As soon as I heard this news, right?
First of all, Warren Buffett, who owns uh, you know, his Berkshire Hathaway owns a quarter of Kraft Heinz, roughly, is not uh is not getting rid of his shares. He's not buying any, but he's not getting rid of it. So I walk up to Dax, right? Because he was in the other room killing people on Fortnite, which is what he normally does, and I said, because he was off from school, I said, Hey Dax, I said, What's the only brand of ketchup? He goes, Heinz!
It's America's favorite ketchup, quoting Wesley Willis, right? And then I looked at their other brands. Nastassi, what do they got there? Capri Sun. I hate Capri Sun.
I want Capri Sun to go out of business. It's a free. I thought I like it. I'm sure you do. Kool-Aid.
Kool-Aid, by the way, Kool-Aid, interestingly, I just researched this recently. Do you know that uh drink the Kool-Aid, not actually originally from the Jonestown Massacre? And in fact, in Jonestown, they did have some Kool-Aid on site, but primarily they drank grape-flavored flavor aid. Flavor aid. So they cheap.
They couldn't even go for the real Kool-Aid. They use grape flavor aid, although some people have said that in photos of uh unopened packets, there was actually also Kool-Aid there as well. But they were drinking primarily flavor aid. And originally, drink the Kool-Aid comes from the electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, where these people, it was a book by who I was Tom Wolf. I don't remember.
Yeah. Who they were driving around in a bus and they would spike uh they would spike the Kool-Aid, and they say, Don't drink the Kool-Aid because it's you know full of acid. Anyways, uh, what else they got there? Orida? Orida.
I mean, come on. Name a tater tot brand, Matt. I I can't even name the one you just said. Is that really? Or right you can't Oh right, O'Right.
Oh, yeah, I I know about that. I mean, if you had to name a brand of processed potatoes. I don't think I could, though. What? How old are you?
Uh 32. See, this is the thing, right? So what they said, what the the idiots my age are saying is millennials like that the brand is not like long-term good because millennials aren't buying these things. They're moving away from processed foods into more towards more natural stuff. Maybe, but like, there's only so many of you out there, Matt.
Like, like I am raising two people in the generation under you, and you know what they want? Heinz. Heinz. Velvita. They own Velvita people.
Cool whip. Cool whip. Corn nuts. Corn nuts. Bagel bites.
Uh bagel bites. Bagel bites. I was on that train when I was younger. See what I'm saying? It's like, first of all, like these brands are driven by teenagers and below, right?
Because they're the ones that are dragging on you like freaking, you know, like like kettlebells at a gym, being like, buy the, buy the orita, buy the velvea. You know what I mean? Yeah, silly me. I thought the parents were in control, but you're telling me no. Yeah, they were planners freaking nuts, man.
Name another brand of peanut. I I can't. That's the only one. Airplane peanuts. Yeah, they also own Lunchables, which I hope burns in hell.
Lunchables is a crap product, should never have been invented, and is is hurting food. I I I I'm good for kids who need a lunch. It's not good for kids. Dude, don't make a lunch, just buy freaking sliced meat. I hate lunchables.
I hate lunchables. They own craft mac and cheese, obviously. Here's another one. They own Philadelphia brand cream cheese. I am pretty sure that the even the store brand cream cheese that I buy is actually Philadelphia brand cream cheese under under a different label.
Now, because I bought Trader Joe's cream cheese, and Booker was like, don't ever buy that again. And and he's not necessarily brand centric, but he's like, it does not taste as good as the Philadelphia brand. They own Grey Poupon, which I'm not a fan of because I don't like that kind of mustard very much, and plasmon cookies. I don't know what those are. Those are the little baby munching cookies.
They're like the little like, you know what I'm talking? Plasmon. Anyway. Uh I feel that this brand's not gonna go anywhere. So I'm gonna wait for it to start creeping up a little bit, and then I'm gonna figure out how to buy you can figure out how to do anything.
Except for I don't care enough about finance to actually like do it. So have somebody else do it. If this was cooking, I would I would be, you know, but you gotta wait for it to start creeping up a little bit because it could stay in the tubes for a while. They have like a loser right now. 30, it's between 34 and 3475 right now.
And the the SEC is the SEC is investigating them right now because they had some accounting um like weirdness with Dave. We should maybe that's the thing that gets us to happy. We should stop talking about this on the air. Oh but anyway, my point is that you know, I feel that the the things that are being railed against them by the likes of Kramer on C uh, you know, whatever his first name is that you know, who's like my age, basically, whatever, crap on him. Heinz is America's favorite freaking ketchup.
That's all I'm saying. So any stockbrokers who are listening should call in and they can sell Dave the stock. I don't want the stock. I want to leverage, I want to leverage myself. Here's what I'm gonna do, but I have to wait for it to start going back up, and then I buy, I buy like three months in the future.
I I buy the right to sell time traveling stock stockbrokers call in now. No, no, it's not not, it's you know, I just whatever. Also, some of their brands are weak. I mean, but come on, people, please. And I'll be wondering.
If it's cra they own cracker barrel, do they own the cracker barrel? Is that related? I don't know. I don't know if they own cracker barrel. They own I mean like I'm not a huge own cracker barrel, but does that mean they own cracker barrel restaurants too?
I I eat they own cracker barrel cheese, which actually is not for a mass market cheddar, it's sometimes the best cheddar you can get in a supermarket. If in the supermarket, in many supermarkets, it's the best cheddar you can get. The very, very aged. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The black labeled one.
Yeah, yeah. They own Oscar Meyer. People aren't like, I wish I was a Kirkland wean, or they were like arguing that like they were arguing that that like Kirkland which is the Costco like home brand already has more sales than Kraft Heinz which is true but also Kirkland makes feminine napkins which Kraft Heinz does not as far as I know in other words they're a more diversified brand they make everything for Costco you know what I mean is that what they're what are they called is that what they're called what are they called in the 70s guess when I was born ding ding all right let me do some questions and then we'll get back oh by the way well I'll talk about France the reason we didn't have a show last week was I was I was in France which was nice but we can talk about it later I should answer some questions uh hello Dave Anastasia this is from Alex in New York have two questions I bought a quarter liter easy whipper now listen quarter liter people normally all the recipes I have are for half liter I also use uh full liter we're talking about is the whipped cream makers here which we you know you use for not just for whipped cream but for rapid infusion or if you're a believer in that kind of late 90s early 2000 things espumas what a gross word right so gross a spuma hello for those of you that don't have Spanish as your native language just use foam just use foam I think thankfully that's over right when was the last time you saw someone did you see uh Jose Andreas on the Oscars no I didn't watch the Oscars because I don't care did you watch it what do you why was he on the Oscars? I don't know was he in a movie no I don't know why he was I heard that uh I heard that Bradley Cooper uh did a good singing job with the lady gaga did really yeah it was good I heard he sang all of his stuff in his in a in the movie. Yeah.
Yeah. I know you're a huge fan of the Lady Gaga. I like, yeah, they're both great. But people were so upset that they got all almost kissy. Who cares?
And his wife girlfriend was in the audience. Wow, that doesn't matter to me at all. I mean, seriously, I'm trying to imagine something that matters less to me. Like the the relationship status of Bradley Cooper and his supermodel wife slash girlfriend or whatever she is in relation to him performing on stage with Lady Gaga is I'm trying to imagine something less interesting to me. Megan Markle.
That's less interesting to me. Megan. Megan, whatever. That is less interesting. And her with her relationship or not with uh or no, what's the other one?
Kate what uh Middleton. Kate Middleton, yeah. Whether or not they are having some sort of like tiffing. Sounds like you're very up on it though. Well, I shop at Dwayne Reed, I shop at Right Age, I see the magazines, and like, and I at least know who these people are.
Like half the people I see on these magazines, I'm like, who's Chad? What is this? You know what I mean? And like, I have no idea what's going on. You know.
Chad. Well, it's like random, you know, spiky haired dude's name, you know. Anyway, uh, point being at least I know who they are, so I can like remember that there's a story about them. Anyways. I bought a point two five liter EC Whipper for quick infusions, and would like to get your take on how to emulate the recipes in liquid intelligence.
I've been using the recipes with the same ratios in time, but only one nitrous charger rather than two. Does that sound right to you? The infusions seem to be turning out fine, but I don't have the ability to compare it to the original recipe. This is a problem. I also I don't have a quarterliter whipper, so I I can't compare it.
Um here's what I'm gonna say. The the folks at uh the EC Corporation, right, wrote they create the fill lines in their whippers to get relatively similar pressures with one charger in whipped cream, which is what they think that that you're gonna use it for. Now, in the book, I only have the the pressures for um one liter and half liter with one and two chargers in them, not for uh quarter liter. But I'm gonna assume that uh they get similar pressures in quarter liter that they that they do in a half liter. I'm sure they designed it that way, which means that I think to get the same pressure, I would overfill the quarter liter whipper slightly uh or a little bit, but I don't know, I'd I'd have to test it.
And what you've hit on is actually one of the main issues I think with all of life in terms of cooking, is you can't really emulate something you've never tasted before, right? Which is Jeffrey Steingarden. That was his, you know, big that was his big thing, right? You know, or is his big thing was, you know, these people they're writing about cooking, they're writing about uh, you know, eating or writing about restaurants, and they haven't eaten hardly anything in their lives. They haven't gone and traveled and eaten a bunch of things, and so uh, you know, come on by and have some.
Although we no longer use wrap, we no longer use the EC uh containers for rapid infusion, we now use kegs. And the reason we use kegs is we have access to nitrous oxide like large tanks. But the nice thing about kegs is is we are putting a known pressure in instead of a known weight. And so we can now have our recipe scale to any amount that we put into the keg. It doesn't matter whether we put one liter in a keg, two liters, two gallons, because we're just using the same pressure all the time, which is, I have to tell you, extremely liberating.
Um if EC ever calls me again to do something, however, I will ask them for their pressure chart as done in a quarter liter whipper, and then I can do the math for you and figure it out. Two, I've been successfully making clear ice at home, but have a small freezer and thus a small insulated container. You know, so clear ice people, by the way, you know, you gotta freeze it in one direction. So you have an insulated container, you fill it with warm water, you can dope it with some regular ice that'll melt out, just don't churn it. You don't want to get any gas into it.
Uh, and then once it's you know at room temperature below, you put it in the freezer, and what'll happen is it'll freeze from the top down because the sides are insulated. And as long as ice freezes in one direction only and freezes relatively slowly, it will freeze relatively clearly if there's no gas in it. That's why you want to start with hot, hot or warm water. Um, and then you know, you could throw some ice in to melt it, but you don't want to use water straight out of the tap. God forbid, cold water right out of the tap, it has a lot of gas in it.
You can get bubbles. So you freeze it down and you get that, then you don't let it freeze all the way to the bottom, you crack it out and you have clear ice. Um, my solution has been to make ice in several batches uh within a week or so before hosting people. I store the ice in ziploc gallon bags. They get a little freezer burned, but I usually just slice the crusty ice off and it's fine.
Would you do uh things any differently? Any tips for storing clear ice would be much appreciated. So if you store stuff in a freezer and air can get to it at all, what happens is ice crystals will sublimate off and you'll get like a little weirdness at the top. Also, um, if there's any melt on it, right, uh when you open and shut the free freezer when it goes through its defrost cycles, you'll get recrystallization at the top, and you'll get kind of nastiness. You shouldn't pick up any flavors if they're in a Ziploc bag.
But here's what I would do with ice. As soon as you pull the ice out, do not put it in any ziploc. Like get it in the shape you want it, put it back in the freezer and get it cold, right? Uh because of what I'm about to tell you. Then once they are cold, i.e.
they have no surface water on them, you can stack cubes or blocks together, right? So the professionals, when they ship them, ship them with little pieces of uh what's that stuff called, Nastasi. No, that little white foam that they ship between the ice. No. Yeah, I know what you're talking about, but I don't know.
Anyway, it's like little thin sheets of white foam, tiny thin sheets that they put in between so that the ice breaks apart nicely. But if it's very dry and you're not gonna ship it, you're gonna keep it in the freezer. You don't need this. Pack it in ziplocks, and here's the trick: get rid of all the air. Now, as long as they are not, you know, shiny and slick when you pack them together, but like very dry and very cold, uh, when you pull them out and temper them up, they should come apart fairly easily.
The very least you'll have the very most you'll have to do, rather, is put like a thin-bladed knife and give a tap, and the block should break right apart, and that's how you store it. And you really shouldn't be worried about any surface stuff because after it melts down a little bit, and after it's tempered, by the way, so you're tempering it typically before you're putting it in cocktails anyway, just a quick rinse underwater will kind of get any of that stuff off. The Japanese, as I've said on this, uh also on this show before, when I visit when Nastasi and I visited Japan, which by the way, we need someone to invite us back. My book got translated into Japanese. We need to get invited back.
I know Jack at the bar wants to get invited because he's working with some Japanese shochu, but we should get invited because it did the book. We shouldn't your publisher set something up. Here's something I don't know if you know. Publisher knows they don't care. Even when they publish it in Japanese.
They they don't care. No, nobody cares. No one has the money, nobody cares. I'd love to go to Japan. Anyway, uh, so uh Nastasi and I noticed when we were out at bars there that uh they rinse the ice off because they they think it's filthy.
Um anyway. Remember that cool bar we went to? Which one? The one upstairs where you ring the bell. Oh, well, Nastassi, in other words, Nasty when Nastasia says cool, she doesn't mean that anything was particularly good about the food.
She's like, it's just cool because it was like in somebody's house. It was like We were the only white people. Uh yes. Well, we're the only non-Japanese people there. So like we walk in, and it's like wild west when the when the outsider steps into the saloon.
Plus, you and I were just walking, and Mark was really upset because you and I were like, well, let's just see what we can find. Did he end up going with us? Yeah. So the three of us three of us walk into this place, which is clearly like a place for regulars. Yes.
And conversation stopped dead. And we and like we just looked at 'em, and I think we just kind of shrugged, and they pointed, and we walked upstairs, and we had like we were in I think it was this person's house. We were, I think we walked into someone's house who was having a dinner party, and they they took us upstairs and sat us in like this like inside-outside kind of upstairs porch. Yeah. And they gave us a bell.
Yeah, they gave us a bell, and then we would ring it and they would just bring us stuff to drink. That is Nastasia's dream kind of experience because it doesn't involve any communication. You're a little bit kind of off your center. You know what I mean? We could never find it.
I don't even know where that was. It was in Tokyo somewhere. It was near where it was near the um raw chicken place. Yeah, it was near the raw chicken place. Uh anyway, so uh that's that question.
Let me see. It's okay. Oh, Sam, who uh was asking about the Faros, which is the coffee grinder, uh, and asked me if I could modify the CAD drawings, smartly realized I was probably never gonna get around to it, and said, I used your old CAD drawings and modified the pieces with a drill works great. Thanks, Sam. I will say this, I uh Sam, there's also in that sorry, this is deep for those of you that don't know what the hell I'm talking about, which is a hundred percent of you except for Sam.
There uh I also I think was able to take out some of the cross brace pieces so that the beans could flow easier uh and so you can adjust things better. Anyway, Sam will know what that means, no one else will. Um whatever. Um this is in from Colin Gonzalez from Los Angeles, who said, please try and be on time so we can enjoy more full-length episodes. This doesn't happen as much in the old episodes.
Well, listen, Colin, I was always late, just not nearly as late as I have been. So I'm now on my original like four to five minute late kind of kind of a situation. Nastasia. I don't know if you know this people. Nastasia always has something to say.
Negative. You know what I mean? That's not true. Who do you have to do? I want you to be on time.
Mm-hmm. I want you to be. Oh. Oh. Yeah, I see.
Yes. Uh I was cooking with a friend recently who has spent some time staging uh stodging nice restaurants in New York for fun. We were uh cooking up a steak and he was leading the charge since he's the guy with professional experience now. We got a pan, a 10-inch cast iron pan, over a campfire. Okay, so here's the important thing.
We're outside. Uh assuming you don't have a campfire inside, although I've always kind of wanted you familiar going back to Japan, you're familiar with like the Aurori? So it's like the old Japanese farmhouse style of uh cooking where instead of just having like a like a fireplace, like you traditionally think of like a European kind of fireplace, you have a central hearth where it's like built around and you build the fire like in this central kind of hearth and you kind of cook around it, which always thought would be amazing, wouldn't it? Like kind of a central chimney, a central hearth you cook around. Um so then you could have of course they have their fancy bing chaton, right?
Uh but they, you know, they're building the fire there. So they as I guess could have a campfire inside, but if it's called a campfire, it's outside, right? Campfire, not fire. Okay. Uh ripping hot before uh so that you got the 10-inch cast iron pan over the campfire, ripping hot.
Before he dropped in a stick of butter with some rosemary. Now you lost Nastasia right away. Nastasia used to work for Cesare Casella, and so uh for those of you that don't know Cesare Casella, uh, you know, great restaurant restaurateur and now ham uh cure purveyor. Doesn't go anywhere without a giant, like not like a piece of rosemary, describe the rosemary. Like a bunch, like a bouquet in your pocket.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like more rosemary than the average household needs for a year in his pocket at any one time. Anyway, so Nastasia there that smell reminds me of him. I saw him on Sunday. I like him.
You like him, but you hate rosemary now. Yeah, you love because it's like eating the person. Wow. Okay. Uh so you dropped in a stick of butter with some rosemary, but rosemary does taste good on steak.
Anyway, uh melted it down and then added the steak to sear. This was interesting to me because when I make steaks, I generally put down enough neutral oil to cover the bottom of the pan or simply coat the steak in the oil. I'll drop in a knob of butter for basting at the end. Knob. Nastasia had a knob face on.
Do you like that word for the for what that is? Uh I like calling people a knob. You know what I mean? In what kind of situation? It's a person of knob.
It's usually a dude, right? And usually it's prefaced with Fing. You know what I mean? It just like it's just like, I guess it's kind of like an 80s, 90s thing, right? But it's where they mess up something?
Uh no. Definitely doing something dumb. Yeah, it's it's a synonym, it's a synonym for like kind of like like dick. He's a dick. You know what I mean?
But it it implies dumber. Like someone who's a dick isn't necessarily stupid. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Like a knob is kind of like he's a dick, but also kind of dumb in my mind. What do you think, Matt? I mean, that sounds pretty right on to me, although I don't use the word often. Yeah. Well, you should.
I should, I'm gonna bring it back into my lexicon. No offense to the knob Creek Corporation. Totally different. Uh, but I definitely don't think of doorknob. No.
Knob of butter is a thing though. Oh, okay. But you would say, what would you say? You'd say like Pat. You know why?
Because you're used to getting your butter as most of us are in stick format. Knob people are used to kind of blocks of butter that you would take like like a chunk off of. I would say chunk, but like I have certain things that I always say, like I I use chunk too often, and I use bucket to mean anything that holds anything. Bucket. And uh my kids, my kids are like, Why do you call everything buckets, Dad?
I was like, uh, you know what I'm talking about, so just do it! You know what I mean? That's the thing. Like, if if someone knows what you're talking about, just do it. Just do it.
Anyway. Uh okay, so a whole stook of butter seam racks. Uh, okay. Uh, whole stick of butter seemed like an excess pool of fat. So much so that I was curious about whether it is even a sear.
Now, listen, I'm gonna finish, I'm gonna finish your question, but I will say this. You can sear in a deep fry. In fact, like deep frying is some of the best crust per unit time. So I like to think of things in crust per unit time, right? And deep frying in not new oil, not new oil, like slightly old oil.
And the reason is is that when you're when you're frying with very, very new oil, the oil uh is so hydrophobic that it can't actually make good contact with the outside of your of your product of your batter if it's batter or or or your steak if it's steak. And so you actually want the oil to break down a little bit so that it's so that it has some kind of free fatty acid, some polar component, because it allows it to wallop your food even faster at those at those high temperatures. Um so like deep frying makes a very good, very fast uh sear. Now, the problem with deep frying is deep frying hits your meat from all directions, and so um it can tend to overcook faster because it's driving temperature in from every direction, whereas a normal searing situation, the top side of your of your product is cooling off and the bottom side is heating up, and you kind of can alternate. Anyway, uh so I was curious about whether that was even a sear.
I also didn't like the result as much. The crust was weak. Whenever we ever hear someone say what? Head elf. Yeah, we were thinking it we're like, the tenor section was weak.
Also, the other one is uh it was is the uh Glengarry Glenn Ross. Right. The crust is weak. You are weak. Saw Alec Baldwin on the airplane back.
Oh yeah, and you didn't have the balls to talk to him. Yo, listen, uh, we connected from Paris to Detroit, Detroit back to LaGuardia. It's it's yeah, it's snowing like a weasel. Why did you do that? Uh it wasn't paying for the tickets.
So, uh, and I was flying first class? I was I got free first class tickets to Paris. Well, I would have said no. No. Anyway, so like I'm on like uh I'm on the thing, and uh, you know, Alec Baldwin gets on the plane.
Uh I wasn't I wasn't on the on the on the window. Dax had the window. So anyway, oh I mean when I was flying over Paris, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so yeah, he got on the plane. And Alec Baldwin is Nastasia's not so secret crush.
No. I don't have a physical crush on him. I just like I Oh your mom wants you to marry him. No. No, I he's not a crush.
I just like him as a person. Okay. I like how angry he gets. He sounded exactly like himself on the airplane. And he talks in like a whisperer.
No, he he was he was he was he had he had seltzer water though instead of wine. I don't think he drinks. Maybe that's why. Yeah. He's uh whoever he was with had some had some white wine, and so I did as well.
Uh but Nastasi's like, go talk to him. Like, if there's the last thing that Alec Baldwin wants to do. Here's the thing, right? He's looking to punch someone. Yeah.
Well, that's what Nastasi wants when you get punched in the face. Like, no one wants to if you're at work, right? Like when I'm at the bar. He wasn't at work. That's what I'm saying.
If you're at work and someone approaches you, that's part of the thing. You know what I mean? It's like if he's on set and you approach him, I'm sure he would be okay about it, maybe. I don't mean I don't know the guy. But like I'm not going to approach someone on an airplane when they're three and a half hours late to get home anyway.
Anyway, uh, the crust was weak. Is this a predictable result? If so, is it because of the water content of the butter? It seems to me that all of that water as the enemy of a good sear would have a negative effect on the result. Perhaps a smaller amount of butter would work, but then you have to deal with the lower smoke point of the curd.
Keep up the good work, Colin Gonzalez. Okay, so here's what I'm gonna say about this. Um I think it it takes a certain amount of energy, first of all, to evaporate the water. Typically, one of the problems with cooking with large amounts of butter is that the um the butter itself, the solids, the milk solids, start to scorch and burn before all of the water has boiled off, and you have to take the water that you have in the butter and boil it off before the temperature of the whole mass of the butter rises back up. Now, that takes energy away from your cast iron pan, so you're dropping the temperature of your pan a lot more than you would be if you just added oil.
Now, if you took your butter ahead of time, melted it down, and boiled off the water, kept the solids in, because let's be honest, you're searing a steak. Do you really care if the butter solids burn a little bit, right? I mean, I stick my steak directly over flame, and almost everybody likes a little bit of Bernie char on the outside of a steak, right? Almost everybody, not everybody, but almost everybody. So I think what's happening here is that you might have gotten the cast iron pan ripping, but you dropped the temperature significantly, probably didn't wait for all of the water to evaporate, and then it took a long time for the um stuff to get back up to temperature.
Now, if you just took the butter and you heated it, got rid of the water, and then brought the butter slowly up to its smoke point and dropped the steak in, you'd be good to go, right? But in general, the ripping cast iron pan, what you're trying to do is take advantage of the stored energy inside of the cast iron pan. And to do that, you really want just enough really hot oil, right? So, like a lot of times, what I'll do is I'll keep oil hot in a pan. Then I'll rip my cast iron, pour the hot oil in, put the steak in.
The one thing you need is you need enough oil or whatever in the bottom of your pan such that every piece of the meat, right, touches the pan. So, like what you don't want to see is, especially if you've done sous vide or pre, you know, pre um cooked the meat somehow, you don't want to see those sallow blonde concave areas where the meat doesn't touch the pan. And that's really what the oil is for is to make good contact. Uh, unless you want a deep fry. But if you want a deep fry, you have to let the entire batch of oil get back up to the smoke point of the oil, which is beyond the burning point of the solids.
But again, you might not care because you're not gonna reuse this stuff. And let's say the whole pan catches on fire. Well, you're outside. You know what I mean? Jen, my wife, is is is extremely afraid of oil fires.
Maybe because I have caught on fire so many times in my life and have caused fires. You know about the famous birthday fire where I got a hibachi so hot in the house that the hibachi's paint caught on fire. And and yeah, it was bad. I mean, it wasn't. The steak was delicious.
Worth it. Uh, do never let my wife hear anyone say that that was worth it because she was like, I asked you to do one thing, and that was not fill the house with smoke, and it was my birthday. No. And of course, I was like, I'm gonna optimize the steak, not my relationship. Oh my god.
And so, you know, which was a mistake. I mean, the steak hadn't vowed to stay with you forever, the wife had. That is so true. Oh man. This episode is brought to you by Cafe Patachou.
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Oh, caller. Call, you're on the air. Hey, this is uh Quinn from Canada again. How you doing, Quinn? What's up?
I'm good. I'm good. I had a question about um mixing fat to achieve a certain texture. Okay. So I know there are the mono and dirion that can fat, but I'm hoping to avoid those if possible, because I'm trying to make the recipe very accessible.
So I'm wondering if I mix something like olive oil shortening and cocoa bar, does the melting point kind of average out? Or does it sort of still start to melt at that lower temperature? Uh it's an interesting question. I've never I've never tested that. Usually, so any shortening has uh it has a range of of melting.
It's a melting kind of profile. Um, you know, different different parts of it will melt it. It doesn't have a single solid melt, which is why, for instance, if you take something like lard, you can and you low temp in lard, you'll notice that certain of the of the fats will recrystallize even like over time, even while you know the m the regular mass of it stays liquid. So it is something that's done on an industrial scale to get a particular texture at a particular temperature right um but like if you're trying to get a particular so if you're trying to get a particular texture I would just choose a fat that has that texture that you want if you have a fat that has a particular flavor let's say olive oil right then I think adding enough of something that is solid to make it more solid is going to kind of drastically affect the flavor of the of the oil you know I mean like you can even see like if you make a one to one if you make a one to one like olive oil butter which people do all the time right it will resolidify ish uh but it never has the kind of the nice well because butter's an emulsion so it's not a good it's not a good uh what's it called it's not a good uh example but it's not it's not kind of the same but you you see it works. I mean that depends on what kind of result you're trying to achieve I have used the mono and diglycerides before I don't particularly like it because you have to add a lot of it to get it to thicken.
There is something else and for some reason it escapes me someone on the chat room hopefully might know about it. There's another compound that's relatively available probably from Monist Pantry um that people use to um to thicken thicken oils up but in general like what what exactly are you trying to achieve? Well I'm basically trying to make manga a butterblock or a little bit of oil. Right. So when you're mimicking butter for pastry, you gotta remember butter does a bunch of things in pastry, right?
So some of the things that that you know you use butter for requires the fact that butter's an emulsion, and some of the things don't, right? So if you're using l uh a substitute, a fat substitute in pastry, you have to be sure that, like, for instance, in in puff paste or in, you know, in anything where the water content is important, you want to make sure that, you know, you kind of uh mimic that. I did something a little bit in reverse, similar with the spinzole, where I took a multi-component fat and fractioned it by melting point so that I could get a firmer, for instance, chicken fat, so that I could do a a chicken fat pie crust, and so that I could um do a non-hydrogenated lard pie crust, you know, with regular lard, which is kind of difficult because the lard if you render lard from the proper it's easy if you have the right kind of lard, but in general you the lard that you can buy or make, you're not using the right kind of fat, and so it has a kind of a lower melting point, and because it has a lower melting point, it's difficult to use in things like biscuits or in things like pie crusts, which is why people buy hydrogenated lard, but hydrogenated lard is by and large garbage. Uh and some people don't you like to use hydrogenated products in any way, so you can fraction it out. But as for making uh butter into something you can use in pastry, I have to find someone who I'm sure someone has thought about this.
Um I don't have any good ideas. I mean, you can use monomodiglycerides, but you're gonna have to use like percentages of it to get it thick, and it's still not going to be exactly like butter. You could also m you don't emulsify water into it. I mean, people do this sort of thing, but I don't think it's I've never seen something that I like as much as butter. But olive oil pastries are delicious.
You ever have that olive oil uh yeah, it was good. Yeah. Anyway. Hope this is helpful. Yeah.
Uh and I think um checked out right at the end there. Okay. Um, there's a couple, no input on that from the chat, but there's a question from the chat. Right, what do you got? Uh two.
A few episodes ago you were talking pizza, and Dave was talking about Neonato. Yeah, Neonata. I just made that. What day is it? I made that again on Sunday.
Okay, there we go. Um, can he direct me on where I can find it and what exactly it is. Where where does this person live? We'll see if he answers. You want to go to question number two?
I'll just do this. Neonata is it's these tiny fish. I believe it's Calabrian. It's these tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fish in like a spicy Calabrian chili oil. And stuff is amazing.
I love it. And so we get it from a place called Calluccio Brothers. C O L C O L I'm sorry, C-O-L-U-C-C-I Glucci O. Coluccio. Uh, and it's neonata as in newly born N-Eo N-E-O-N-A-T-A, not as Dax calls it, neo-Nazis, which you do not want.
You'd not want neo-Nazis on your pizza. Uh so it's neonata, not neonatal, and obviously it stands for kind of newborn. Uh, and I did uh I made the pizza again and it was delicious. So the neonata pizza, for those of you that don't know, you make the dough, no sauce, just neonata. Uh, and then again, because I am not, you know, I don't need to bend to traditional Italian rules on anything.
Uh I put parmigiano cheese on it, and then a little bit of mozzarella, then you cook that sucker up, and then you put fried eggs on top. Damn is that good. And I had some country ham, so I was draping some country ham over it as well and eating the hell out of it, and it was good. Now, the reason that you don't typically find, and I think I said this on the air before, it this is my opinion, that you don't find uh cheese on fish-based things in many Italian recipes is simply because fish-based dishes were fast day dishes, either not just Lent, but many fast days, Fridays, uh Christmas Eve, whatever. So a lot a lot of fish recipes were designed to be eaten on days when you wouldn't have meat, dairy, or eggs uh in in Italians, but whatever.
Uh so what was the second question? Um first of all, these are from Kyle. He says damn, yeah, I'm stealing that. And he is from Connecticut now in Savannah, Georgia. And he was asking you to explain why bromated flour is so bad and why we're one of the few countries that haven't outlawed it.
Uh, I'm not up on why it's bad for you. I mean, it's used to bleach the stuff out, right? And that's what it's for. I don't know. I I'll research it.
Like uh send it into send it into Nastasia and I'll research. All I have to say though, that just because the European Union says something is bad, I'm looking at you, GMOs, doesn't necessarily mean that it is. And just because we say something is good doesn't mean that it is, right? So in general, I find that any regulatory body made up of political people and not science, like, okay, it's not that scientists should run the world. That's not what I'm saying.
I'm not saying scientists should run the world. But I'm saying that if you look at politicians, they generally bend to the to the will, whatever will is the strongest in, you know, in the ballot box or in the political makeup, not necessarily in who has the strongest logical arguments, right? I mean, I think you can see that. Um, so I in general, whether something is a law or not, I don't necessarily take to mean that you know it's based in reason. For instance, in New Zealand, and I've said this a million times, in New Zealand and Australia, you can use uh usual to anesthetize fish.
You're not allowed to do it here because the regulations don't allow you to, and yet uh you're allowed to use it in cooking. Makes no damn sense, right? So does that mean that usuals unsafe to use an anesthetic? Of course not. So I don't know.
But I'll research the the brominative stuff if someone reminds me. Someone has to remind me though. But back to the pizza thing. Uh I think people, uh a lot of people had recommendations on pizza steels, which I, you know, have had and have used. But uh the problem with all of these things is that my oven, I I I unhot rotted my ovens.
Those of you who listen to this show knows. My oven used to get up to, you know, 900 and something degrees. I unhot rotted it so that it is now kind of it's it's a commercial oven, but it it operates in normal person range. And uh it's hard to mod, it's it's hard to make it do even what kind of a home oven can do because the way that the commercial gas ovens operate, which is too boring and complicated to get into now, about like the the holding level of the flame, etc. etc.
etc. Uh, and so the the downside of it is is you can make one pizza well with a steel or with stones, but it's hard if you're serving a lot of people to pump out pizza pizza pizza pizza pizza. Like I used to be able to, not little Caesar's brand pizza, but pizza pizza pizza. Not he just does two, we do at least four, right? Uh and so uh here's my workaround that I do.
I have a uh crepe maker, a gas-fired crepe maker, which by the way, if you can get an actual French crampas gas-fired crepe maker, they are ridiculously awesome. It is one of the best pieces of kitchen equipment that I've ever bought. It's like griddle, it's such a hardcore griddle, and unlike most griddles, like restaurant griddles, they're smaller than a restaurant griddle, but so that they're big enough to cook almost anything that a regular home person wants to cook, but they're relatively compact. You can make them fire off of propane because they're meant to be cooked outside. They're they're awesome.
I love it. The only downside they have is that uh unlike an actual griddle where you can scrape the fat off of it, you can't do that. So it's not really because it just falls off because it's a crate maker, so it's not good for that kind of cooking, but I love it. Anyway, so what I did was is I would throw the stuff into the pe into my main oven, let it cook right until it was set, then I would throw it on top of my uh uh what's what I'm creating maker, kind of like the way they used to do at Oto, right? With the way they would uh stuff, and then I would stick it on there, and then I would throw it into my into the broiler of my brevel, and so I I would have three things going at once.
I would have the pre-cook, the crepe maker, and the broiler going all at once, and I could crank out pizzas almost as fast as I used to using using a a triple, a triple technology. Uh oh, I did another interesting thing with the pizza. So, as those of you that don't know, I'm always researching equipment. One of the things I've always wanted to own my whole life is a Japanese vegetable sheeter. You know what I'm talking about, Anastasia?
Sure does. Yeah. A Japanese vegetable sheet or they make those vegetable sheets. Now, real Japanese cooks, they use an usuba, which I also know how to do this, to take like a cucumber and turn a cucumber into a long sheet, or a carrot into a long sheet, or a daikon into a long sheet, and then chop it up into strips so you can use it as a garnish for sushi, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. KitchenAid now makes and the the Japanese vegetable sheeters have always been very expensive, but they can do one, but KitchenAid now makes one, so I got one.
The one thing the Japanese one can do that's awesome. Have you seen it? It can do the fish netting. So like as you're making the sheet, it has another set of knives that rotates and makes a puncture, so you can make like fishnet stockings out of uh out of your daikon. I don't know how often that comes up.
How often do you need a fishnet stocking of daikon? Nah, no. Never? Anyway, so the one problem with the KitchenAid one is it is uh the core is too big. It doesn't like let you get close enough to the core of what you're doing.
But I threw a potato on that mother and turned it down into like a potato, like a long potato sheet, and it made probably the best potato pizza I've ever done. Because I tossed it with you know, rosemary, sorry, and uh garlic, oil, salt, pepper, and a little bit of chili, and then like laid them on the pizza lay like in between layer with the layers of parmigiano thing was ridiculous. So now I'm going to do like not a lasagna, but like almost like a gratin with like layers of these sheets, like like kind of thicker than a regular gratin, but not as thick as a lasagna. So I'm all about the potato sheets now. I'm all about all about the potato sheets.
Of course, I won't. Oh, uh, see, I don't have time. Shoot, I want to talk about slicers. I had some people talk to me about pressure fryers, which is which is awesome. Wait, uh uh, you're interested in pressure fryers at all?
You should be. Okay. Do you like fried chicken? Yeah. So why are you not interested in pressure flyers?
Frying in my house, I just don't. I'm not really. All right. Another thing, if anyone has an experience in this, I went to a Polish store in Greenpoint the like a couple weeks ago and bought something that I'm now obsessed with, but it's one of those things where I love it so much and nobody else does. You ready for it?
It is mustard pickles. Not mustard pickled eggs, which I love, but literally pickled cucumbers, where it the pickling liquid is some sort of like not quite creamy, but almost creamy, but mustardy based, plus like a little bit of sweet and like sour. Amazing. Like the best hamburger pickle I've had in like a million years, or as long as I guess you'd say 47 years. It's the best hamburger pickle I've had in 47 years, but I can't, but no one else in the in the family likes it.
It's not that they like it, they like it on hamburger, but they haven't, they don't like it on its own. So it could be just me. Yeah. You ever had that happen? This is why you gotta watch out and you gotta let people taste a bunch of the stuff that things that you're working on, because a lot of times you'll think something is great, but nobody else will.
That happens to me a lot. A lot lot. So back to France. On the way to France, and back from France, by the way, on my iPad, I loaded up Hannibal. You seen that show?
No. Is this relevant? It is relevant. Have you seen it? No.
Matt? Nope. So uh a number of years ago when it first came out, people were writing into the show to ask me whether we had seen it, because Hannibal, you know, he's a murderer. Yeah. And he eats people.
Yeah. Yeah. So this show has a lot of cooking references. Oh, it doesn't he use like a centrifuge or something? He does, well, kind of a BS centrifuge.
He centrifuges out blood and then uses just the uh plasma. Um, but he does a lot of interesting cooking. I have some culinary bones to pick with Hannibal, right? Especially on like their description of Ibirico, but the guy clearly has some chops in in the show, and unfortunately, I can't actually get into too many of the details of the cooking because they'd be spoilers. But if you're interested, you go on vacations, and you know the first thing you talk about on every vacation.
Dave, did you have a good time? You're like, yeah, I watched Tropic Thunder on the plane and it like made my life. And I'm like, that was not vacation. That's when I go to work. Oh, Dave.
That was a family vacation. That was not a family vacation. Jen was on the plane with you. Yeah. Yeah.
Tropic Thunder is a great movie. Tropic Thunder is a fantastic movie. Right. That's the only thing you told me about your family vacation. And then this is the most recent really good memory he's had.
Alright, so anyway, I also had Ibirico Ham in Paris because even though they don't make it there, if you pass a shop, it's literally called Beota Beota, you're like, I'm going in. And of course, I had some delicious stuff there. Uh so in non what I watched on the plane related stuff, Nastasia. Um, so I didn't go to any restaurants. So anyone that I don't have any restaurant recommendations.
I had all these people give me amazing restaurant recommendations, so I can probably give you other people's recommendations, but I did not go to restaurants because we were four adults, five kids, and then we met up with Miley and Wiley. Oh wow. So and then we that was two more adults and and two more kids. So I wasn't about to try to go to restaurants with first of all, like even making simple plans, like let's go down the block. Which direction do you want to go in the block when you have that many people is complicated, right?
So in general, what we did for dinner was is that we'd go traipse around the city doing whatever we're gonna do, Musee Dorsay, the Louvre. By the way, the Louvre, Musee Dorsey is so much nicer as a museum than the Louvre. You've been to these museums? Long time ago. The Dors Dorsay is amazing museum.
The Louvre, I mean, they have great stuff, like from a food perspective. I saw the Arcing Bulldo pictures where you know the four seasons where the faces are made of veg and fruit, but there's so many people crammed around all of the work that you're like, hey, you know what I mean? Like, like everyone who goes that I know, like Wiley also, everyone everyone goes takes pictures of people looking at the Mona Lisa because A, who really cares about the Mona Lisa, but you have to drag your freaking kids to it. You show up at this museum and you're like, okay, kids, we have to see the Mona Lisa, we have to see the Venus de Milo, we have to see the Wing Victory. Do they really care?
It's just so they can say that they've seen it. Whereas at Dorsey is an amazing like museum experience. Anyway, so we would go do whatever we're gonna do. Went to Versailles, which is awesome. Oh my god.
So we went to Versailles, we're eating this picnic lunch, and the kids start feeding these ducks. And I'm like, kids, don't feed the freaking ducks. And then a freaking swan shows up, and I'm like, if you feed and I was with some little kids, I was like, if you feed that swan, that swan will come over and rip your face off. I was like, that and uh I'd freaked the kind of kids out, but I kind of should, and the swan was super aggressive about trying to get a hold of our bread products. Swans hate them.
Anyway, so uh so first thing we did was we went to the catacombs, and then I went to one of my favorite cheese uh shops, Catrum, and picked up for the very first night a big thing of Vachram Mondora, which is one of my favorite cheeses. Love it. It wasn't the best one, I have to say. But every day all we did was go out and get cheeses. The problem is is that Parisians, not that they're lazy, but they don't seem to like to have their stores open on Sundays and Mondays.
It's like most of the finest cheese and meat shops were not open on Sundays and Mondays. So of the four days I was there, two days everything was shut, and the last day, um, we spent most of the day at Versailles, but I did get to hit some amazing places. I went to my on the last day, my favorite one of my favorite cheese shops in the world, Bartolomey, which is uh like right off of uh Rue de Bach uh stop in in Paris, which is close. We stayed in a fantastic place in the sixth right near the Luxembourg Garden. Amazing, a lot of good food uh you know, food places around there.
Uh so I walked in and had one of the best Mondors. They're apparently, and it's spelled Bartholomew with like a Y in English, but Bartolome, they're supposedly it's a little jewel of a cheese shop where it's like all kind of old, like wood and tile, and like it's like cool, and it's just like like a little almost like a shoebox at the side of the wall, an expensive freaking shoebox, and they do their like like affinage downstairs, and they're famously kind of not very cool to people, but we I was like almost closed. We had just gotten back from Versailles. Our train was delayed. I run off the train with my cousin Nathan.
We run, we run over there. I run in, I'm like, Mondor. And they give me the I was like, I was like, is that one ready for tonight? You know, I'm doing my basic, my my, you know, my hacked up awful French at this lady. And she's like, yes, yeah, yeah.
It's like towards the end of the season, but this is the best one in Paris right now. I'm like, okay, I take it. I'm like, that tetamon. And like they have a you know, tetamoin is that cheese that you put on a girl and you turn into the flowers. And Bartholomew, one of the things they do, Bartalanet, what they do is they is they they pre-g roll it and then they make the flowers for you so you don't have to have a girl, and they package it and they give it to you.
So I got one of those, and I was talking to Nate. Turns out she speaks English, because I'm talking to my cousin Nathan in English about the Giro, and she's like, so she started to take a shine to me. Uh, you know, even though apparently she's not supposed to, but maybe because I was so aggressive about what cheeses I wanted. And uh they have an electric Giro. She's like, it's not so difficult for us to do the Giro work because we have an electric Giro downstairs.
And she showed me her little affinage space downstairs, which was cool, and then recommended some hyper-age, I think she said three years, three-year-old conte, which was like the best conte I've ever had. And that same day we went to Gilles Varraux, which is the famous uh charcuterie place, and again, I was a little bit aggro, which apparently worked because they were extremely nice to me in the charcuterie place. I was getting all sorts of you know, Lyonnaise uh intestine based sausage, not the outside, whole sausage made of intestine, and just some fantastic charcuterie there. Um also I found a cheese shop that I had never been to, so I've been to, you know, been to Bartolome before, been to Catrum before, uh, both run by women. Uh I went to another shop that I've never been to before, which I recommend if you're in Paris, uh, in near the Luxembourg Gardens, where all they are is a cooperative store selling products that are from the area around where Beaufort is made.
And they had a hydraulic cheese cleaver with like a laser line on it. So they had these giant, like 100 and change pound wheels of Beaufort cheese, three, you know, several different kinds, and then this giant knife with a laser line on it, and they would just turn this giant wheel and go k-chunk and it would go boom, which is so much more impressive than that wire that people cut things with, right? Because it's just like boom, and they would sell it. And they were mean to me on the first day I went there, real mean. Real mean the second day I went there, and the third day I went, they were like, hey, what's up?
And they were like so nice to me. And I was like, like, so it's three times as a charm. I brought you back some Beaufort from there. I can't wait. I have to.
Oh my God. It's like this old gigantic. It's this old Beaufort that you can't get in the US that's summer, it's summer, but then aged over a year. So it's like from not recent summer, the summer before that. And it is ridiculous Beaufort.
And also in there, eventually, once they're nice to you, you can be like, all right, what else? What else here? What do I need to get? And so she like gave me possibly the best wild blueberry jelly I've ever had in my life, but I'm not gonna bring that back because I'm not a chump, I don't check bags. And then she hands me these walnuts, and she's like, these walnuts are the best walnuts.
I was like, well, don't tell the people from Grenoble that they're the best walnuts because they think they have the best. And she goes, These are from Grenoble. I was like, Booyah! It sounds not like walnuts and jelly and some sick Beaufort cheese, and that'll have to be it for this week. Cooking issues.
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