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This episode is brought to you by Nourish and Flourish, a handcrafted, independent publication taking readers on a journey from the soil to the stars. Subscribe today at nourish and flourish dot site. This week on Meet and Three, we are examining the true cost of convenience when it comes to when, where, and how we eat. Dark stores enable workers to eat without any kind of thought to how they're getting their food or how it might have come to be. Doordash, Uber, and Lyft in the past have pledged to spend $90 million to try to exempt themselves from the law.
I could be wrong, uh, but I I think there's gonna be significant regulatory pushback on driverless trucks. Tune in to Meet and Three, HRN's weekly food news roundup wherever you listen to podcasts. I don't know from when. Teleg 1 from Robert's Pizzeria in Bushwright Brooklyn. Joined as usual with Nastasia, the hammer Lopez.
Good. Good. She didn't. I said joined as usual. You say good.
You say. You usually say. I didn't though. So you're supposed to say hi. Hi.
Yeah, there you go, yeah. We got Matt in the booth. How you doing? I mean, good, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Good. Good. I don't know. This is why you get angry tweets. Yeah, yeah.
So uh we got uh Kat from HRN's here to yell in your ear hole about uh the HRN gala. If you like hearing this kind of garbage that we put out, you're gonna have to come to this freaking gala, apparently. Gotta pay the bills. What? Arabian LA.
Are we the f are we like the like the fake NPR? You know how much I hate listening to NPR when they bust out their, if you just gave money. But we don't do that. But we don't do that. Instead, we throw a party.
Oh yeah? Yeah. And what's gonna be at this party, Kat? Dave's gonna be at the party. Uh um Dave's gonna be at the party.
Wine Santa. They specifically do not allow wine Santa at the Britannical Garden. If you do the party, we'll allow it. Do you remember yesterday last year when Stephen Hoppy from from Puerto Rico, like Santa fell over full of like like vodka? And sleep.
Well, because he had already sprayed red wine on the back wall of their fancy like area on their wallpaper. He then face plants and Stephen Hoppy chest like like iron fist punches Santa's chest and Santa's head fell off, and then he like chicken with his head cut off, dead man dancing on the floor, like in his own vomit and vodka. Do you remember this? It was so sad. The best part though was when Nastasia was putting him together, and we have a picture that looks like Santa's groping her because his arms are wrapped around her.
It's a it's amazing. So there's a there's a okay, so there's one fella at the botanical gardens who's like a real nice guy, like an event guy. They're all very nice. Sure they are. And then there was one woman also from the event staff who is like just walked in, saw Nastasia's admittedly broke ass wine Santa, in the sense of like put together like a small child would put it together.
Anyways, like she looks at it once, turns to nice guy and goes, no. And then walks away. 86 wine. And that's why like wine Santa got for over half the event was in a corner like a dunce, facing the corner. Remember this, Nastasia?
Yeah. And yet you want to do it again because you're such a glutton for punishment. I saw a zombie Santa, by the way. That's awesome. All right, listen, before we go any further.
Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa, cat, I'll let I'm gonna give you your time. You also have a caller, by the way, just for their sanity, I'm telling you. I will give them their time. Hold on.
We have in the studio today one of the all-time intern and intern running crews ever, or some of them. We have Nick Wong of UB Preserve. Hello. Formerly Sam, he has agreed today to actually freaking talk. Don't you do it?
Has he? Don't you do it, Nick? Oh my god. Nick is gonna be on permanent 86. I made no such agreement.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, alright, alright. We have Angela Gabots who runs Goldenrod Pastries in Nebraska, where the possibilities are. Endless. Thank you.
Although that used to be Nebraska's state motto, they changed it. It's not as good anymore. Well, you had endless possibilities. What do you have now? Uh what it's not for everyone?
No. That's really what it is? What you're the Hendrix Jin of states? It has recently changed to Nebraska. It's not for everyone.
No, wait. What for real? That is a fact. Oh. So you're like, Hendrick's gin seems to do well by saying that it's not for everyone, so we're gonna do the same thing here in Nebraska.
It used to be the good life, which we stick with, but the good life like the rap song? Yeah, well, kind of, but honestly, it's not for everyone, is what they say. Do state motto change as often. They should not change. Possibility is endless, seems better.
And then it was Nebraska nice. Oh yeah, Nebraska nice. Remember that? Yeah. That one didn't stick either.
Not for that. Not that nice. Not for everyone is what they're saying is, hey, outsiders, get out. Hey, don't come here. That's so crazy.
Well, if people keep saying it's just one giant landing strip, ooh. Uh who said that? Excuse you. When you construct a landmass to be a flat table with a slight grade in one direction, that's perfect for landing airplanes. Am I wrong?
Why'd you guys do that? Uh what's my choice? Is it true? And I've said this to you a million times, and so you can't go back on it now, that if you go to one side of your state and put a marble on it, it will roll all the way to the other side in a straight line. You might have to come out and give it a shot.
I mean, some idiot might put a house in the way, but other than that, it's just gonna like do blue, blue, blue, blue. Marble's not for everyone. Oh, I don't know. Everyone likes marble. You're not the you're not the big ball of twine state, are you?
Is that Kansas? Who's got the big ball of twine? Isn't that Minnesota? Minnesota. Big ball of twine?
Yeah, the world's largest ball of twine. And and I remember back when I was even more mean spirited than I am today. I was like, here's what's awesome and also terrible about New York. Literally, if we were more popular, right? We could get on here and be like, yo, everyone show up at Central Park in like an hour and a half.
And we would have the biggest ball of twine like this. If New York was like, we want to have the world's biggest ball of twine, we could just show up in Central Park, and in like an hour and a half it'd get done. We'd have the biggest ball of twine in the world. And then like Shenzhen would be like, oh no, you don't. And then like the government in China would be like, no, you're gonna, you're twine.
Twine. And then like 14 million people would show up and make a ball of twine that actually changes the gravitational pull of the of the earth. You know what I mean? By mandate. Yeah, by mandate.
Yeah, yeah. But I think we should not talk about China. Uh I mean, I do business in China, but like I don't, I'm not on in the NBA, so there's no way that they're gonna like stop my pregame from. I felt like I was quietly trying to say not to go. What I'm not allowed to talk about the NBA.
We should what's going on? What what is this idea? We have we have Mindy Fun Reason. We have Mindy. Now you you go by Love, like you don't, I always I knew her as Mindy Nguyen before she went by Mindy Love, but it's Mindy Lavoff, so I'm gonna give both.
Okay. But Mindy. That's fair. Let's call you Mindy. I like that better.
Yeah. So Mindy, uh, you know, Mindy had Nastasia's job before Nastasia had Nastasia's job before Nastasia stopped having that job and became, and I swear to God, this was her official title for a number of years, heir apparent at Booker Dex. Really? Yeah. Heir apparent to the Booker and Dax fortune cookie collection, which is a bunch of stale fortune cookies in a drawer.
Because that's what we're worth, people. That's what we're worth. Uh so anyway, uh talk, guys. Oh, wait, caller, caller. You're on the air.
Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Also Cat's here, right? Oh, yeah, but she I said I was gonna give her a time, but the caller is sitting there waiting. You never said when she was in the middle of the city. We were also waiting for you to get here, so that's they can't even hear you in stats.
You're not talking into the mic. Caller. Hey, yeah, uh, is this my time? Is this the time I get? This is I'm I'm giving you your time.
The greatest album ever made. What was it? What did he say? Beyonce, what song was it that Beyoncé did that? Yeah.
I'm gonna give you a mic back, but Beyonce, right? I don't know. I don't know anything about Taylor Swift. I don't really care about her time. Go ahead.
Okay, so I got a pepper mill question for you. Ooh, I like this. Yeah, so I'm looking for an air apparent to my current pepper mill, which is right now about as useful as a giant ball of swine. Um I'm using the OXO um, you know, kind of standard home kitchen pepper mill. It's got a couple different settings on it.
You know, you can figure out like, you know, how how fine or how coarse you want the grinds. Um, but half the time it's just not like the peppercorns are not getting down to where they can be milled. So I have to, you know, keep on switching it to the the coarsest grind and then get some peppercorns down in there, then switch it back to the fine grind, and it's miserable. Yeah, OXO had a really awesome idea. That was those grips.
Everything else, meh, it's okay. You know what I mean? Some of their it's hit or miss. In other words, not every I like OXO as a corporation. They made eight zillion dollars.
Not everything they do is the best thing on earth. I'm gonna tell you what you need to do. I'm gonna ask you some questions first. Do you have or do you have access to a 3D printer? Uh negative.
Okay, it's okay. It's okay. That's not a deal breaker. Now, I don't remember the name of it. I'm gonna tell you what to get, but I don't remember the name of it.
So if you go online, you know, you're familiar with Hario, the the coffee grinder company? Yes. Okay. So Hario makes uh a number of handheld coffee mills. One's called the Skererton.
Okay. Don't get that one. It's fine, but don't get that one. I mean, you can, but don't get that one. If you look on the internet, there is a knockoff, it's not really a knockoff, but instead of being plastic and hourglass shaped like the Hario, it is kind of cylindrical and stainless steel and tall, right?
And it's got like a handle that comes off and on. It's got a hex thing on the top, and it has the same burr set as the Hario. I just in fact, the Hario actually might be better for you since you don't have a 3D printer because it sits better. Those coffee grinders, you've got to make sure that it's not the old style. The old style Hario, you adjust was a nightmare to adjust the grind.
But on these new ones, you unscrew the bottom or lift it off on the stainless one that I'm talking about. And there's a little hand wheel that you click that adjusts the pepper grind perfectly. And this coffee grinder is the best, is the best pepper mill I've ever had in my life. It's the fastest, best, most consistent pepper mill I've ever had, and it's cheaper than a freaking Peugeot or a freaking whatever that like Mooli, whatever that, whatever that one that everyone bought, per what's it? What's the one?
What's the one everyone used to get like 15 years ago? It starts with a P. No, not the Peugeot, the one with the little flap door in the front that's that looks like a little windmill. Anyway, whatever. It's better than that one.
It's the only one I use. And the nice thing is, is that because it's got a bottom container, the problem, the reason I was asking about a 3D printer is what's nice to do is to make a base for just it so it can stand more firmly when it's down. But the good thing about these kinds of things is because they're meant to hold coffee grounds, you can ground a boat ton of pepper into the coffee grind holder and then use it when you're cooking instead of sitting there like a moron over the top of your stock or whatever you're peppering. Yes, I know you should pepper the thing at the end because the pepper just turns into bitterness, but guess what? I like pepper bitterness.
So what you should do is add pepper at the beginning of the cook and at the end of the cook. Nick, comments on pepper. I think you're just a bitter person. Uh that's fair, but maybe it's because you got yourself normal bagels and got me a devil's butthole bagel. Named after you, so that bagel was twice as expensive.
I thought you liked rainbow bagels. We really splurged for that for you. I will take a picture, people. I will take a picture. Uh you know what?
Uh bagels. Did I answer your question by the way? Is the collar still there? I don't know. I think I should.
He's gone. So that so uh on bagels. Uh I'm a huge fan over the past five years of the of the other dough base everything that people put out. Huge fan. Sorry again?
The pumper nickel everything. Oh the egg everything. I like that. Yeah. I mean, whole weed everything.
But the pumper nickel everything? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. On point. On point.
Well, if you dip some of these pumper nickel bagels in the leftover everything spices, it looks like we did that for you. I know. Well, years ago, like 20 something years ago when I lived way up town by Columbia. I I think I've told this on air, I walked into um Absolute bagel, which is run by a family that apprenticed at Essa after they came to this country from I believe Thailand. And I said to the guy, you should make a pumper nickel everything.
And he just looked at me and started laughing and then walked away. And now who was right? Me. Now who's laughing? Yeah, it was.
Well, you should make a what? I don't know. All right. So you actually have yet another caller on the air. Alright, yet another caller.
You are on the air. Hey, yeah, hey. I'm calling for some follow-up to give you some follow-up. Okay. Because about two months ago, I called asking for advice on batch cocktails for my wedding.
Oh, okay. Did it work the way he stuck? I'm sure you're here. You like any sort of wedding thing. Okay.
What did I tell you to do? And was it a terrible idea? Uh you told me to look at you told us to look at punch recipes as guides. You told us to consider using acid-adjusted orange juice in order to keep sort of uh to replace like more volatile lime and lemon juice. I still believe in the what we ended up doing was the punch route.
Uh we didn't actually make the cocktails the day before. We just figured out very scaled up recipes for them and had our bartenders make them by the literal bucket load at the event. Uh so then they could pour it out more easily, and it worked out very well. Uh another happy listener, ding ding ding. And the wedding went well, I hope.
I mean, not just the cocktails, but I mean everything went okay. It was great. It was a great time. We had karaoke. It was all a good time.
And you're still married, so it's sticking so far. So far, so good. Nice. You hesitated. I mean, like, I've Nastasia hates hates when I say this, but my my one major theory, which I'm assuming it's not you.
My one major theory is that most people where they end up splitting up later when they were walking down the aisle, knew that something was wrong. They knew that they shouldn't do it as they were going down to do it. But at that point, there's just so many dang people there, so much punch, like already being mixed, that they're like Yeah, you can't go back on the punch. Can't go back on the punch. You already mixed it.
You can't put it back in the bottle. The ABV's too low. He's not talking about you, by the way. No. He's saying in theory.
Theory. Very good. So I'm happy to hear that that is not the case with you. Yeah. So.
Yeah. Also, shout out to Matt for also getting married. Congratulations. Oh, there you go. No, thank you.
Nice. Nice. You gave him more of a shout-out than we did. Why is everyone nicer than us? I have a theory.
All right. Did you have any uh any other comments? Or you're just uh give giving us the thumbs up on the punch. Great. Oh cool.
Alright. Alright, cool. So uh you want to for those of uh people do you ship by the way, Angela? Did what? Does she what?
Uh ship. Ship. We all poop. It's a it's a famous book, Mindy. Everybody poops.
So let's just stipulate that. Oh, by the way, I see you got sturgeon. Yeah. There's a whole thing here. I hope there's no mouthful.
Sable. Oh, sable, sable. I like sable. Doesn't sturgeon, doesn't the cure sturgeon always have, and it's always, no matter who makes it, like a like a weird kind of mold hit at the end, the taste, the flavor. The old mold hit.
I wish we had some now to know. Ooh, did I tell you? Did I say on air where I thought I'd where I I thought I shortened my life by like five years by eating something? What? Okay, okay.
So for those of you that know and we can talk about this later, because there's a meat study out that we're not gonna have time to talk about it, but I'd like to. Anyway, the one one of the very few things that I believe is actually bad for you is aflatoxin, right? Which is like mold-based toxins, you know, that anyway. So, so like, I brought back from China some sort of like weird like bean cake in a in a plastic McGillakuddy. You know what I'm saying?
Like a little, like it looked like a bit of honey thing, but it was like some sort of bean cake. So, anyways, Jen rightly was like, this has been out. Should I throw this away? I'm like, nah, it's sure it's meant to be out. I'm sure it's fine.
I'm sure it's good. So, like two weeks later, I see it stashed. As soon as something is stashed, which goes with my other thing, by the way, if you wrap something in your kitchen in aluminum foil, just throw it out. As soon as you wrap it in aluminum foil, throw it into the garbage. Because as soon as you can't see it or you don't know what it is, you're never gonna eat it.
Unless you're a label fiend, like my man Nick here, just throw it the hell out. Anyways. So uh it's the same thing. It's like as soon as you put that pasta maker, like in like the back of the third drawer underneath like eight piles of other things, just throw it out. Just throw it out.
You're never gonna use it again, anyways. Uh, and the time it takes you to get it and clean it and fix it after that, you could have just gone on Amazon, it would have showed up the next day. You can make pasta, less hassle, less hassle. Anyways, where was I with this? So I see it and I'm like, I'm not gonna do that thing where it just sits on my shelf for like eight years, and then Jen comes up was like, I told you to throw this away, and then it gets thrown away.
I'm not and I'm not gonna be that guy again, right? So I'm like, I'm gonna eat it. So I open it, and because I'm a jerk moron, I don't sit there and take a bite of it and enjoy. Well, I I enjoy things differently from you if you're a person, right? If you're a person, you probably enjoy taking a bite of something and then eating it and then taking another bite.
We were eating it for spite. I was like, BOM! No, I wanted it, but I was like, bah. So I I chew it, and then as soon as I go goomp, I'm like, ah mold, not like, not like friendly mold, like freaking like toxic, toxic, toxic mold. Now here's the kicker.
For those of you that also know me, it's not like I ate lunch today. I mean, today I'm going to. But in general, I didn't eat lunch, right? So I have nothing in my stomach but this toxic mold thing. And I'm thinking I'm saying straight aflatoxin.
Like I'm like, I'm I'm F. That's it. That's like carcinogen plus plus plus. So but we it's very hard to make yourself throw up on an empty stomach. So I go back into the bathroom and I shove my fist and my I do I do the I do the twinkle tickle with my fingers.
All the way down my throat. I'm like, brrrrrrr! I like bury my hand in the back of my throat and start going with my fingers and then I'm like nothing came out, and so I had to eat the damn, I had to keep that toxic mold in my system, and for all I know, it's still there working its carcinogenic ways right now. Why don't you just gulp a ton of water so that you could like it? I by the time I thought of that, I was so spent from like just that.
Whatever that was. And like, oh my god, like, you know, your back of your throat is not meant to have your finger jamming into it. No, it's like worse than that. It's not actually, it's not worse. It's not, I was gonna say it's worse than when you swallow that tortilla and it goes down flat.
You ever how many times does that happen to you? That's the worst. Yeah. What? You've never had that like tortilla shard.
Oh, a chip. Yeah, yeah. I thought you meant just a soft tortilla. No, yeah. What are you talking about?
No, we're talking about the chip. What's wrong with it? Where the chip shard goes, hey, how about it? And just goes down your throat like that. Yeah, yeah.
And you can feel it. Yeah, the whole way. Uh Louise. Anyway, so do you ship? And so what pepper grinder are we doing?
So my bakery Goldenrod Pastries currently ships. It's a more complicated process, but we'll be starting e-commerce later this year. So you can follow us at Goldenrod Pastries for shipping up now. How do you like you do many fancy like ice things? Do you have like those pizza tents that you put in it to stop that from getting ruined during shipping?
Or do you not ship it? Uh we don't ship the fancy ice things because I had not thought about pizza tents yet. Yeah, pizza tents. Yeah. There's gotta be a way to do it.
Where there's a will, there's you. If anyone can do it, Angela, you can do it. Because of the possibilities? Because possibilities are still in your heart because that's the way you grew up endless. P.S.
This has nothing to do with anything. Her dad used to run like the the Nebraska beef situation, which was kind of cool. Situation. Just all the beef. He's he made me one of the greatest steaks I've ever had.
Is that true? I hope it's true. It was it's the truth. The fat cap on the ribeye tasted like bone marrow. In their house, you ate the fat first.
Yeah. Yeah. Uh so why don't you use by the way? I I'm remiss. So Goldenrod Pastries was founded, I don't know, like six, seven, eight years.
It was about five. Five, there you go. So uh I was had like fabulous and uh Jeremiah on here, and I was like, what? Your restaurant opened what? Like two years ago, they're like five.
I'm like, oh man. So anyway, so like, you know, look, I have no sense of time anymore. Please, please. So uh explain to people what uh inclusive baking is. That's a great question.
So we I started my business because I had to go dairy free, and I wanted to find a way to bake for myself after going to the French Culinary Institute and only using dairy for everything. I had to find a way to bake for myself. So I started a blog and started talking about um dairy free baking and realized that people needed gluten free, uh dairy free, vegan, all these things. So I decided to open a business about a year after I founded my blog. And so we are primarily gluten-free, dairy-free vegan bakery in Nebraska.
And I would say 75-80% of our customers have traditional diets, which is my favorite part. So we make food that's actually just like really good and not good for gluten-free. Now, here's something that people over the internets can't know. But is uh by the way, can you say is the word a whole okay on family shows? Are we a family show?
Anyway, Angela is not one of these people in general who in general. No, she's not one of these people that in general people you would think someone who would have a business like that would not be like you is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, so we like in that's uh you know, a lot of like Dave is trying to pay you a compliment. He's never he's read about compliments. And burning everyone else in the process.
No, no, what I'm saying well, no, but in other words, in other words, like you're not like I am believing this kind of health and um my body, my body, my body, my body, and like you know, like like this sort of like completely like weird, obsessed, like self-centered, like you know what I mean. You know, beating your kids into eating a specific thing kind of a person. Best about golden rock pastries. No, so I brought speaking of kids, I brought my kids to see Aunt Angela at her bakery, and we spent every morning there eating everything at the bakery, and these kids had no clue that anything was different ingredient-wise than any other bakery. And I have to say, these are the best buns, like cinnamon rolls, sticky buns.
We have the best buns. They have the best buns, buns, buns. We do ship our buns merch. Oh wait, oh wait, merch or buns? Merch.
Buns buns buns. Oh, I like that. But the point being that you're such a high quality individual in general that regardless of like what you're putting into it, you're doing it for a quality reason as well. So in other words, like you're not gonna sacrifice quality and produce some sort of dense, gummy monstrosity because you don't care about the I feel that a lot of people who get into this into your segment of the business don't care about food. They care about other things, whereas you care about food.
I think that like, yeah, for sure. A lot of people come at it from a health perspective, and I come at it from like a food perspective. And um, you know, we use a lot of sorghum flour for cookies, and I think that sorghum flour actually makes a better cookie than regular all-purpose flour. And so we're making something that I find to be like a lot better than what I was traditionally making. And so we're making really delicious food that happens to be all of these other things, and we're not sacrificing fat or sugar.
And you know, I get a lot of questions and interviews about why do you do healthy? Whatever. It's like I don't know what healthy is, but also we're not doing that. Yeah, I don't know what healthy is. That's the only right answer.
Like, what is it? I think my question sorghum flour, is it work well in cookies because you don't have to worry about the water uptake because it takes up so much freaking water in like higher hydration things? That is a great question. I'll call back with that question next week. It will be late to answer the question.
Yeah, it has a beautiful texture though. Your cookies have that like shortbread crumble, that tender crisp. Yeah, but it's also like very bendy. It's not like it's not, it doesn't shard. Yeah, um, it's really like bendy.
Go ahead, guys. What's so funny? So Nick, you are Nick and I for for years are we're a UR people. If that makes sense. Yeah, like as in, oh, that is a fluffy shardy cookie.
Yeah, you are a shardy cookie. Yeah. It's funny that like a lot of people don't I guess they didn't grow grow up with it like we did. Yeah, yeah. We are uh They didn't come of age in the UR culture.
We have a UR culture. Yeah. We still do it. We still do it to each other all the time. Yeah.
So we also like uh we have uh a standard nick Nick and I have a standard question that we ask. If anyone says, so like let's say I was giving a let's say I was giving a talk about some what Nastasi, what kind of garbage stuff do I usually talk about? Carbonation. Okay, carbonation. I'm giving like a like some sort of no hesitation from Nastasia on that one.
She's like, I got a list of the garbage. Yeah, all right. So like so I'm giving I'm giving a talk on carbonation, and Nick happens to be the audience, and someone says, any questions? Yes? I have a question.
Yes? It's a family show, I can't say it's a good one. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Leave it out.
Yeah, are you yeah, it's basically like, are you bleeping? Yeah. It's the internet, it's fine. Are you bleeping kidding me right now? Yeah, yeah, and that's his only question.
Then he walks out. Like every time. And I believe at the FCI, you actually did it a couple of times, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because you can't live a joke like that and not do it. Like Nastasia and I have a thing where we're gonna go in front of a when a band is playing, that we're gonna get near the front, and then right when they're rocking out, I'm gonna flip them the double birds, the double high birds. That means the middle finger. And like sit there, but like you gotta be like smiling and like like banging the head and rocking with the full-on, like, but you're fist pumping the bird into them like you're like you're punching them in the side of the head with the with the birds. We did it!
No, we did it. First of all, I don't I didn't at that time, I feel like I could do it now. Didn't know the Phantom Planet guy very well, and we did it to him and he didn't notice. Wait, can you what was that? Can you show us that?
Just like this. Like or like uh the the prototypical if I ever went to a Holland Oaks concert, Rich Girl. Dave, this is a radio show, by the way. We're gonna have to put this on Instagram. Yeah, you know what don't matter anyway, Nick.
Mindy, what do you got going on? Mindy's what do you think? We actually have a question for Nick now that he has spoken. Oh yeah! UB Preserve, by the way, his uh his restaurant right now, not related to UB40 or any other.
What is it? UB stands for what? Underbelly. Underbelly, because there originally was an underbelly, and then this became the preserve, i.e., the original one shut down, and you're preserving the mental attitude of the original, but this is kind of your take on what that thing was. Exactly.
Okay. Yes. Alright. Question for Nick. Alright, this is from Travu in the chat.
Um he has tried the recipe for the sambar shiitake mushroom texture. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What? What? Oh, yeah, go ahead.
The ones in the buns, but can't get the texture like in the restaurant. The ones in the buns, Angela, what do you think about the ones in the buns? I love the ones in the buns. You are the one in the bun. Yeah.
Yeah. There have been so many potential episode titles for this episode already. You guys are great. Alright, so Nick, come on, talk about some shy talks. So the question is: the texture is not correct because you're following the recipe from the Bomba Fuku Cookbook?
Yeah, I think this person, this person is implying that that they you screwed up. Nick did not write the recipe in that cookbook as far as I remember. Okay, I don't know. Yeah, like so. How do you make them, Nick?
I don't because you work at UB Preserved. I will I will try to answer your question though. Is the question like they're just too chewy? They're not chewy enough. Never never firm enough.
Never firm enough. Are you hitting them on the plancha before you put them in the buns? Like you gotta cook them out a little bit. A lot bit. Those things are cooked.
Yeah. Like you pickle them and then you hit them on a plancha and you hit them with more tate. Is it a full pick? That's what happened. Those things do while.
You get a little bit of caramelized sugar action from hitting it with some tate on the plancha with the shiitagis. That gives a little bit of crazy. Cassie is similar, a follow-up question, Nick. I will not make you a pork bun. Uh no.
Well, for you're not your name's not Sinaido. For those of you that know, like the pork buns at Sambar for years were all about this guy named Sinaido. And Sinaido was like the grandmaster pork bun magician of all time because you could walk into Sonaido and you could like, Sinaido, I need a thousand pork buns now. And he would just sit there and like, like he would just same look on his face, buns, buns, buns, buns, buns, buns, buns. And when they're being made, they all look like Hermit the Frog, like when they're open and they got the pork on it with the cucumber.
Sinaido was a genius of pork buns. What happened to Senaido? He got a better paying job. Oh man. Why don't you just want to work the bun station for the rest of your life?
You should have paid him anything to have him continue to make buns. I tried. Alright. Did that answer this question? That wasn't my follow-up, though.
That wasn't my follow-up. My follow-up was sometime during when Bookering Dax existed, like when it still existed as a bar, before they renovated that area and made Bookering Dax not exist as a bar anymore. You went from the mushroom being vegetarian to the mushroom being not vegetarian. Was that just to spite people? I work at UB Preserve.
I had a good time. Did you have a good time when we went to UB Preserve a couple months ago, or did you hate the hell out of us when we were there? Me hating you and me enjoying my time at UB Preserve are two separate things. No, my time with you at UB Preserve. It was a lot of fun.
It was it was really a lot of fun having you do the bar takeover for our Southern Smoke spring fundraiser. We actually had our fall one yesterday. Oh, how'd it go? How did it go? It was really good.
We had a bunch of like 25 chefs from all over the country and Houston local chefs raised $573,000 for the MS Society and also for our own emergency relief fund that helps out industry workers in need. How much? $500,000, huh? $573,000. Oh, closer to six.
Almost six. That next year when we hit six, like, oh yeah, broke our blessers right there. Uh uh, so that was the only time that I've ever been to Houston. What's the what's your Bon Mi shop? It's called like California or something like this.
Cali sandwich. Cali sandwich. It's very good. It was good. It's 350 a pop.
I forget what was it? What's the one to get mixed? Was it? It's what's the one? It's the Doc Biet.
Dak Viette. Very fancy. That's what I think. 350. Super fancy.
Super fancy. I tried to go there twice. The head like pate and everything. First time I went in there, not one person was there working. There were people eating.
Well, one of those people technically works there. I guess. I don't know. I stood around for a while being like sandwich, sandwich, sandwich, and then I left. Did you say it like that?
No. Come on. They've never seen someone from Staten Island there. Oh my god. What?
What? Alright. So, shall I answer some of the questions that people were? Mindy, do you have anything to say for yourself? No.
No? You didn't notice our our matching shirt. We got some shirts made. Let me see. They're for Aangsu.
Oh, nice. Alright, we're gonna talk about Aang Su. Oh, cat, why don't you do your um poor cats okay? So, our gala is on Monday, November 11th at Brooklyn Botanic Art in the Palm House and Yellow Manu Cafe. Like it has been for the past two years, but this year it's gonna be earlier in the year.
It will be warmer. And um, we're gonna have Dave making cocktails, Southern making cocktails, Damon making cocktails from Speakeasy. We're gonna have a bunch of restaurants, daily provisions, Marlowe and Daughters, Marta, Mamapukunishi, Park Avenue Autumn. Many, many, many more. Um, go to heritage radio network.org slash gala to get tickets.
Early bird tickets are on sale until this Thursday, October 10th. Boom. Speaking of giving you your time, Nastasi has run out, so she has to say goodbye. I'll see you all. Bye, Celsius.
I hope so. Tonight, yeah. Yeah, if you want to see this crew, come pester them at existing conditions at some point tonight, but I won't tell you where. Tricks on Dave. So uh question, Dave.
Yes. What are two cocktails you would make with gin and mezcal for the gala? That's my question. For the gala? Not for everyone.
For the gala. I already got the mezcal cocktail in my head. What is it? I'm not gonna tell you. Why don't I gotta tell you?
Come on. Sneak feet, sneak feet. Secret. What about gin? Jin?
First of all, listen, when you're making cocktails at an at an event, when I was like a younger person who cared more about like, you know, doing the right thing, I would do shaking cocktails at events. Nick, you used to see me do all did you go with me? Do were any of you guys at the MTV event? No. No.
Where I did 1,500 aliminute carbonated drinks. It was the dumbest thing I've ever done. Did they really appreciate them? Uh they drank a lot. That's the one where Nastasi and I distilled a Christmas tree.
Yeah. Anyway, real dumb. I don't do that stuff anymore. I'm a big believer in the pump and dump. So, like at events, pump dump, pump dump.
So I'm gonna do uh a drink with the mezcal that goes over a rock. It's going to be our wintertime version of the Saratoga Paloma, which is like one of our better seller salty drinks. Uh so this is a winter win winterized uh on the rock version. The gin, I can't tell you what I'm gonna make because I haven't thought of it yet. What do you like with gin?
Um I I just like gin, period. So I don't think you need to do anything like crazy to it, right? You mean like pink gin? Do you just want me to throw angle and gin and put it in a cup with no ice and you're just gonna sit there and pick it up? I don't know, you're the professional, not me.
I don't know what I would do with gin. Well, what would you I like a Negroni? Yeah, but that requires that you also purchase Kampari and Vermouth. So you're saying we should get Kampari and Vermouth? Well, I'm saying I'm fine with Kampari and Vermouth, but you would need to buy it for the event.
Whose gin are we using? Scottish Kings. Alright, and who's uh what's the other thing I'm using? The mezcal sombra mezcal. Same as last year.
Okay, all right. So it's a lighter mezcal. So sombra's like lighter, not as smoky. Alright, so cool. I might do a different well, we'll think about it.
We'll think about it. Well, think about it. Alright, we'll think about it. All right, all right. HeritageRoynetwork.org slash gala.
See you there. And by the way, don't show up at the New York Botanical Gardens thinking that you're gonna go to a party, because that's in the Bronx. And this one's in Brooklyn. Okay. FYI.
Thanks, Dave. All right, you're welcome. Bye Cat. Bye. How come it doesn't recognize my face?
All right. Oh, I see she's a good salesperson. We'll be back for a half. All right. Nicoleska wrote in and said, My embarrassed friend sent me this picture of her daughter's school photo prop that has been filled to her daughter's specification.
Uh to the daughter specification. Uh and uh Nick thought of us and sent it. It says this. It's uh first day of kindergarten sign for the children, and I will read it for you. So first day of kindergarten.
I am five and a half years old. I want to be a jerk when I grow up. A jerk, a jerk! That's what it says. It's amazing.
It's an amazing photo. Is letting them listen to your show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's amazing. Uh you know, Dax now says, jerk, jerk, jerk, jerk!
That's what he says all the time. I'm gonna kill you! Like that, like he says it as a joke, I think. Richard in Indiana writes in hey Dave, Nastasia. She left.
She didn't care about your question there, Richard. And Matt's such a little bit. She might have you here on time. Please. She left before one.
She left before one. Don't worry, I'm on sauce. This year I decided to start growing super hot peppers for the first time and have tons of pods, which gave me the ability to start playing with different recipes, and I finally came up with something I like. I'm now wondering what it would uh take to turn this recipe into something that is shelf stable. Is it mainly a pH thing, or is there more I have to account for?
Do you know of any good resources I could read to get more up to speed on this? Thanks. Resources, I don't know. If you want to stabilize that crap, go to T I C Gums What You Need to Know When You're Formulating Hot Sauce. And they'll tell you like basically it's Xanthan.
The answer is Xanthan if you want to stabilize it. No, but there's there's also like for shelf stability, you have to have like grammar okay. Well, so according to TIC gums, the added salt acts as a preservative, right? So you're gonna want the residual salt content at being six about six percent for super shelf stable and uh three percent uh thro uh uh a pH of 3.0, and that's gonna make something stable. And if you're worried about stuff growing, you can do a low temperature pasteurization because nothing is gonna like yeast and stuff aren't gonna grow in that.
Uh, but you know, you're not gonna kill the spore forming stuff, but it won't grow at that. However, however, if you look at sriracha, sriracha, right, has a relatively high pH, four, right? It's not an extremely vinegary or acidic uh uh product. It also has a relatively low salt content. It's at 4% salt, which I calculated based on the nutritional panel.
It's probably actually less. I'd count it, you know. I took the weight of sodium as uh as 22.9, the weight of uh chlorine as 35.4 to the math based on their sodium numbers, blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, so uh it's uh it's under 4% salt, and so it's a low salt, so they add uh sodium bisulfite to preserve the color, and that's why sriracha doesn't brown out the way a lot of other sauces do. It gets super.
I have a bottle of sriracha in our fridge that is a crazy color. Crazy what? Like deep, deep dark red, almost purple. Yeah. The longer you keep that, it gets it changes, but not as much as it would if they didn't like jack it.
So you could use ascorbic acid, but it's ascorbic acid gets consumed uh better. And the other thing they use more, the other thing they use is potassium sorbate to inhibit molds and yeast because they're not at a super low pH and not at a super high salt. So a lot of people are like, sorax is not healthy because you contain a lot of salt. And it's what potassium. Exactly.
Potassium sorbate and sodium button. Listen, I'm not a huge fan of you of people using sulfates because I think that a lot of times you could taste them if you put it in at the wrong level. And people overdose them, over, you know, add them. Uh but I don't really care about the other stuff. And as for salt, it's actually low in salt.
That's why they have to add the potassium sorbate. Jerks! Jerks! Um, hold a second. I'm gonna do this and then hold a second.
Joshua uh wrote in about bitter cream. Your bitter cream. I have some catching up on the backlogs of the show since finding cooking issues eight months ago. Finally, I have a question for you. I recently purchased three different pints of the same brand of heavy whipping cream from our local grocery store, and they were all bad.
Though not in the lumpy, sour and rancid bad that I've normally You are. It's too easy, yeah. That I've normally seen in other dairy products. It smelled fine, and the immediate taste was okay, but instead of the usual sweet and silky taste that follows, it had a very sharp bitterness that made me think someone dumped bile into the cream supply. The only ingredients in this heavy whipping cream are cream and carrageen, which is unusual.
Almost everyone has switched to gel-in. Uh so what was giving this nasty bitter taste? Has it gone bad? Contamination, cow's diets? Uh and when I was thinking about this, I had another thought.
Why isn't cream lumpy anymore? It seems that even a few years ago, cream would be lumpy. I think it they're adding gel in now, maybe that's the reason. But anyway, hold on. Uh I will tell you what it is.
I looked it up, and all of the information on bitter cream is from like 1919 and 1920. So I'll give you the cause of bitter milk from the Pacific Rural Press, volume 97, number 11, 15 March 1919. The cause of bitter milk. Every year this season, we receive many inquiries regarding the cause and remedy for bitter milk and difficult churning. There are two different kinds of bitter fermentation.
One that is present at the time of milking, and one that does not appear until the milk has been left standing for uh a longer period of time. Also, the bitter milk is usually more prevalent in the winter than during the summer months. That is because low temperatures, the bacteria which cause bitter milk develop faster than the bacteria which cause milk to sour. So what you're having is a bacterial growth going on in your fridge, right, that can override lactic acid bacteria that's not making it uh sour, but is breaking down the protein and possibly also the fat. So you're gonna have protein breakdowns that are bitter and possibly also lipid uh oxidation products that are making it bitter and also weird on your tongue, which might give you a biley thing.
And it says at the end of that article, this very often happens with cream, and under such conditions it will not churn readily because the abnormal fermentation has hardened the fat globules so they will not stick together. Uh so there you have it from 1919. And there's uh some more information you can look that's more recent, but why do you need more? Oh, what you get this. There's a fault in cream.
You ready for it? Bitty cream. Bitty. It's caused by this bitty cream and sweet curdling. Bitty cream, noun.
Uh sweet cream curdled by bacteria that survived pasteurization. Compare with broken. Bitty brings up my favorite Alan Jackson song, Little Bitty. It's alright to be little bitty. Little hometown or big ol' city.
Might as well share. Might as well smile. Life goes on for a little bitty while. Uh it's really the only Alan Jackson song that I listened to. I will never forget this conversation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, so it's too cold. Wait, one of the things that's the one. It was too cold. Well, it's it's it's too cold for the other stuff to grow, but over a long period of time of storage, as cream gets stored for a lot longer than milk usually does, because we don't use it as quickly, even at the store, right?
It stays a long time in the store. It could be growing these other bacteria that cause it to go bitter. I'm gonna say one thing before we talk about the reason you guys came here because Matt, do I got five minutes? Of course you do. Ah, cool.
So uh Thanks, Matt. Nice. This weekend, this is classic, right? So you guys know Booker always threatens to Booker hates the birthday song, right? Why not?
Yeah. So, like, but he always threatens, he asks every year for his birthday, he wants uh pepper spray. So that at his birthday party, if someone sings happy birthday, he can pepper spray them in the house. I'm like, first of all, don't use pepper spray in the house. I was like take him outside.
But he practices, so you're like, you'll walk up to him and be like, hat shh, and he makes the he pulls out his hand and makes the shh noise. Right before you even get to the pee. Hatch shh. And he like does it. Yeah, he's all psyched.
He's so ready to pepper spray people. And we're like, Booker, that's being a bad host. You're being a bad host. And then he's like, what if I put a sign outside that says, if you come into the house and sing happy birthday, you will get pepper sprayed. I was like, That seems fair.
Well, I was like, but that's also unwelcoming. That's unwelcoming. That's like those signs that say, I'm gonna cut your bike off of my fence. No, just cut the bike off the fence because the bike doesn't belong on your fence. I feel like that's a fair request.
No, but that that is a fair request, but you're not like, or I will pepper spray you. I don't know, she might. Depends. Anyway, point being that I got to see what it was like when someone actually did that because Dax was doing his track and field event at Van Courtland Park, which is cool, actually. Van Courtland Park, never been there before.
Uh 242nd Street, for those of you that don't know it, i.e., way up in the Bronx by Riverdale. Anywho, so didn't you used to live way the hell up there one point eight? No, you know. Uh yeah. Yeah, more songs going through my head now.
Anyway, so like, issue is there's Van Courtland Park has this big thing called the parade grounds. There's like a hundred schools there, so it's like chock full of kids and like coaches and adults, and there's a finish line where all the races end, but then they start all different places. So I'm I didn't get to actually witness it, which I'm forever upset for because I had to be that idiot who posted myself along Dax's race so I could like say, go, Dax, go, and there was still an opportunity for it to help him speed up. You know what I mean? So when I find when he finally finishes the race and I go back, there's ambulances and cop cars everywhere.
Now, luckily, not it was before Dax's actual race, so he wasn't involved. But some like, and this is some like California level craziness, right? No offense. Uh lady goes, ah, get out of my space, pulls out pepper spray and pepper sprays all these kids at the finish line. And the kids are like, ah!
And I'm sitting there and the coach is telling me this, and I'm like bent over, laughing, like crying, not from pepper spray, but from laughing that this actually happened in the real life. She's like, What's funny? What's funny? I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, it's not funny. You know what I mean?
Oh my god. I went home and Booker's like, yeah, that's what they get. Wait, was she a mom? Who was the woman? Unclear, but I doubt it.
I think she's just like a lady that hangs out at the park and was like, ah! My space! Wow. It's wrong. It's wrong.
See, she needs to move to Nebraska where there's more personal space. Like I feel if you need. You have personal space. I don't know. I feel if you need your personal space, New York City, not a good place to live.
I feel like Houston, you give people personal space. Nick, can you tell the story about your uh was it your your sous chef who went out to visit a stockyard? A stock show with his Houston City boots on. Oh, our uh culinary director, Nick Fine, went to the rodeo and was like walking through the uh like you know, oh showing your cattle stuff like that if you want to buy some. Walks by this cowgirl.
She looks him up and down, and this guy, he is from Texas, but he is very much a city slicker. She looks him up and down. This is a real cowgirl, like breaks bowls, spits on his boot and says, You're in the wrong place, city slicker. No! Well, more colorful language, but this is a family show.
What? Amazing. I would marry her immediately. That's Nick's type of girl, right there. Man.
Spit on your ball. Well, that's a strong. That sounds incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, so welcoming.
That's welcoming. Uh all right, so why don't you explain why don't you explain uh your your shirts and uh what's going on? So we had a friend, we all had a friend, and I I think you spoke really nicely about Aang Soo. Was it last week? Week before?
Uh a couple weeks ago. Yeah. It's the last show I listened to. Um, so we had a great friend, and he I think changed the way all of us think about food and think about cooking. Um, and he was wildly inappropriate.
Oh my god. Flat screen TVs. If there was a line that you shouldn't cross, I always used to say he would pull vault across that line. Yeah, he wouldn't be able to see the line anymore. Yeah.
Yeah. Destroyed the line. Destroyed the line and just the questions he would ask you. Because he was actually curious about the answer, were just they would not fly today. Absolutely.
They would no longer be appropriate questions. But he never meant it offensively or to make you uncomfortable. No, but you're saying in a way it's gonna make people think, well, I wouldn't have liked this guy. No, no, no, no. It's not like that.
He was not for everyone, let's just put it in. Yeah, he was not for everyone. He's a Nebraska. He was like, he was like Nebraska, isn't that for everyone? He was he but he was one of the greatest, uh greatest human beings that you could ever meet, and he did amazing things for people.
Uh and I always tell this story, you know, when Dave and I were a two-person team in a closet at the French Culinary Institute. Um, Angela and Eng Su would come in every day after pastry, you know, with these giant trees of what they baked that day and the greatest stories of the pastry chefs and what they learned that day and the adventures they went through. Ingstro and I had a it, you know, it's a pretty intense time. Um and he went through some stuff when we were in school together. I was working for Dave.
I had another internship, and I remember specifically he would call me in the morning to make sure that I was like up because I had had really long nights, and he wanted to make sure I was gonna show up to school and that I was awake, and he would say, Wakey wakey, time to bakey. And I would get to class and he would have breakfast waiting for me. And um, one of the most genuine uh Nick saw him most recently at his restaurant in Singapore. You want to tell you want to talk about uh like his Nasi Lamach and all I never got to have it. So his restaurant in Singapore is called the Coconut Club, and they just moved up to a larger location up the street, apparently.
Um his I guess signature dish, but it's more of like a national dish of Singapore if they have one because there's so many different cultures there. But uh it's a Nasi Lamak. It's uh like a fried chicken leg, some coconut rice, some fried anchovies, some peanuts, a fried egg. Did I say that? Some peanuts.
Not yet. But it's like you can get it for like three bucks on any hawker stand, and he's charging like 1250 a plate. Apparently, that thing's up to almost 20 now. Yeah. But he would source the best rice, the best chicken, the best coconuts.
Like he couldn't find good enough coconuts, so he opened up like a coconut farm. He started his own coconut farm so he could get the best quality product for his food. And like beyond that, it was more of uh he could see, you know, all these hawker stands have these great things, but no one's teaching anybody. You got these 60, 70, 80-year-old masters that are one dish, but they don't let anyone else learn. So, like when they pass on, that's it.
So he wanted to make the best version of this, show all these other people how to make it and be like, cool. Now you go out in the world and you do it too, or like you find like a way to represent yourself with a specific dish and push push Singapore forward in terms of like it's not just hawker stands and hawker centers or like crazy Michelin-star restaurants. There is a middle space for you too. You don't have to be an 80-year-old master to make this. You can I'll teach you how to do this so you have these skills to take with you after you leave here.
Also, like he was interesting. Was that he was always he was uncompromising, but not in a jerk a-hole way about it. He just He knew. He just was like, you know, he wanted it to be good. Yeah, he wanted it to be the best.
And he didn't want to just shortcut if there was a better way to do it. We were I was looking through our recent um conversations, and uh it was about a year ago, so not that recent, and he was telling me how much he wanted to do for his staff and everything he wanted to do to make their lives better and how hard it was and uh what how taxing it was on him, but just how much he wanted to do for them. And um then so I'm working on this cookbook right now, and I was texting with Mindy and Nick, and some things were getting really challenging with my editor, and all of these things were happening, and I app was right after Aang Su passed, and I could hear his voice in my head of this uncompromising personality of what he would do and the lengths that he would go to to do what he knew was best. And it again, this will make him sound like a jerk, and he really wasn't, but um he would say F you man, and I just had this voice in the back of my his voice in my head is like this really specific voice, and he would say F you man and um and just laugh. And like um I thought about him and I was like, you know what?
That's exactly what we all just need to remember, and it's not in a jerk way again, it's this uncompromising um personality to do what you know is and it wasn't easy for him. No, it wasn't never easy for him. No, he didn't have an easy background, you know, and and for him to be able to stand up and say, no, F you man, I know what's right, and I'm gonna keep doing what's right. And I think he had that same conversation with you too, Nick, right? About how much he cared for the people who worked for him.
Yeah, yeah. It's just like I get a lot of crap for serving a $12.50 nice and luck, F U man. You're making uh uh nice and luck for the tourists and not for like F U men, I don't care. Well, it's like the whole sort of like, I'm gonna do what I think is right, is it his family? Was it his uncle or his dad that went to jail?
His dad went to jail for a long time for not bending in the Cantonese newspaper he was working on in Singapore, right? And was like, nah, I'll go to jail. No, and house arrest for like the rest of his life. Yeah, for like 40 years or something like that. Yeah.
Comes from a long line of F U man? F U man. But I think he's uh, you know, to kind of sum it all up, I think that he is he was what's right in our industry and in the world in general, somebody who really wants to make a difference for staff or the community and make food that's wholesome, cultural, delicious, and uncompromising, and really keeping people at the forefront. And I think that's what's what was one of the really really special things about him. Yeah, yeah.
Now that's our shirts. So if you can see. Oh, yeah, our shirts are F U man. Oh, that's what that is. And uh with some dingle-dangle coconuts.
What do you think are the coconuts? Are they are they supposed are they suggestive? We I don't know, you're projecting onto this. Yeah, I'm projecting. We didn't design it, but we felt that someday if you meet me in private, ask me what Aang Su Ask me about what Aang Su said about uh what every child in Singapore has to learn to do with flat screen TVs.
Definitely a private conversation. That is a very private conversation. I don't think I know this one. I'm gonna ask you after we get off the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um also listen, this business, if you're in this business professionally, I'm sure a lot of businesses are like this. But uh, you know, he started a restaurant, was working on another one. He was uh very, very driven, um, you know, had a lot of stuff going on internally, a lot of us do. Um it's very, very hard to start a business. It's very hard to do a good job.
You always have outsiders beating on you. You have to make people feel good in your place. You have to do like the best you can and guide people who maybe don't always see it the way you do. You can't lose them, you can't lose your crew. It's very high stress.
It's a it's a lot of problems. It's a lot to go into this business and to try to do it at that level. Please, let's take care of each other out there. Cooking issues. Cooking issues is powered by Simplecast.
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