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This episode brought to you by Appeal, helping you to enjoy your fruits and vegetables at peak freshness and reduce food waste. Learn more at appeal.com, A P E E L dot com. Uh joined as usual with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez at her undisclosed location in Southern California. How you doing, Nastasia? Good.
Yeah? It's like good. Just want to get to the meat of the show. Just I don't know. Excited to get to that.
All right, fine. Uh we got uh we got John in uh New York City in his upper east side uh uh customer service, Heidi Hole. How you doing, John? Doing well, thank you. Yeah, yeah.
And uh on unusual because she's such a fan of our actual guest. Oh, we have Matt in his booth, in his Rhode Island booth. Didn't mean to leave you out there, Matt. Fancy, thank you. Yeah, yeah.
Uh we have Rebecca, the boondoggler. Algovic's here, our uh intrepid PR uh agent, do not call her a flak. She does not enjoy being called a flag. Is that true? Yeah, yeah.
We we talk about this pretty much every time I'm on the show, I feel like. I know, but like I still don't understand it. And interestingly enough, just challenging. So it's still true. Our guest, by the way, started out his career in PR, and so maybe he can give me a better understanding of why it is considered uh, you know, uh not a good term.
We have on the show today, editor, uh, editor at large, still editor at large, right? Correct? Because that title hasn't changed, right? Uh, it has changed. I'm a free I'm a free age.
I oh, I can't wait to dive into that one. All right. Former, former editor at large, and whatever editor at large means anyway. I've always wondered. It's kind of a cool title, but I don't really know what it means.
Uh at Chow Hound. Uh, we have Joey Splodani here with his new book, Basic, Basic Bitch. And you basically take Kitchen and you knock the K off and you replace it with a B, and you have the basic bitching. Welcome. Thank you.
Thanks for having me. I feel like I um going to be a different guest than uh what you usually have. So yeah, and and uh on the flip side, we're probably gonna be asking you maybe slightly different things than your average uh person interviewing you wouldn't be asking you anyway. So can't wait. I feel like it's uh so so alright, so I was gonna go into things, but since it's recently and you said you're ready to dish on this whole no longer the editor of large and chow hound, uh go.
Yeah, no, so Chow Hound is actually CBS Interactive's food and lifestyle brand. I've been with uh them for about three years, and we were kind of part of this whole Red Ventures acquisition where they took over CBS Interactive entirely. So what's just Red Ventures anyway, before you go, because I read that, but I have no idea what a Red Venture is. Yeah, it's a media company, so they own Point Sky, uh Greatest, Healthline. Uh yeah, so the state of Chow Hound right now is kind of TVD.
So people still assume I'm associated with them, but I'm like, no, because we're not creating any more content. So no no one is. It's not just you. It's just not just me. Yeah, the entire staff was laid off.
So see you as they do. Yeah, tough times, tough times. But it's so strange because you would assume that like, you know, people need this kind of food information via the internet now more than ever. It seems like a weird move, no? One would think, but I think it was just part of this overall deal where honestly CNET was our flagship site, and it's worth a hell of a lot more than Chow Hound's worth, uh, just because of their readership and the advertising revenue that they get.
So we were kind of packaged in with them, and that's just how it how it happened. But ultimately, it's good for me because now I have no more exclusivity and I can do my own thing. So congratulations. Back in the day, if you were gonna buy a uh a printer, man, CNET was the place to go on the on those reviews. You know what I mean?
Like, I gotta buy a I gotta buy a camera, I'll go on CNET. You know what I mean? Like that was the thing. Yeah, I mean, that's still their bread and butter, and they're I'm assuming they're gonna continue with that. But uh yeah, it's it's gonna be interesting to see maybe how they incorporate Chow Hound and potentially some kitchen appliance reviews um into it.
So we'll see. Everything's TVD, kind of like all of this year. So we so when you were working at Chow Hound, like how much did you feel like you know, you guys were you know not given the like the full power that you should have because you were part of this like CNET big brother situation? Like, did it feel like that or did it not feel like that day to day? You know, it was nice because we did really work independently.
We were very unique to the portfolio. There was nobody else doing food in the space uh when it came to CBS. So uh they didn't really dictate a lot of our content other than I would say maybe kind of e-commerce driven things because everybody loves you know, a gift guide. Um everybody loves um God, we were doing just like product ro roundups during some of these like major food holidays and and holidays that we shouldn't even be celebrating. Um that was kind of what they were making money off of, but it's just like every other you know business model how can we make the most money um doing the dumbest things.
Um, but we really did work independently, and uh that was the beauty of it. You know, we really got to delve into aspects of food that weren't like super mainstream. We got to highlight a lot of chefs and restaurants and stories that a lot of other publications really were at tackling. So I was proud of the work that we did. I didn't feel like we had this corporate umbrella controlling our every move, but uh obviously there was still that small element of it, and as a result, we were sold.
You have any you have any uh really uh when you're doing product roundups that you didn't enjoy anything really stand out as something you really hated having to round up a review? So I maintained some editorial integrity here. If I didn't like something, I just didn't write about it uh at all. We just didn't include it. But I will say that's m has more applied to when I did restaurant guides or travel guides.
And, and you know, I would visit certain places that uh, you know, maybe a publicist for a travel board put together, and um I just had to kindly tell them I was not going to be writing about their food. So but product-wise, we if if it sucked, uh, we would just tell the publicist and not include it. Right, but there's certain things that like, for instance, in your book, in your book, a basic picture, you take like a kind of no judgment attitude towards so like e even on you hate. I think I'm very judgmental. Oh, no, but like no, but like no judgment, in other words, like you're heavily judgmental about a lot of things, but you are nice to people who want something, and you're like, you can have it.
You know what I mean? That kind of no judgment. Yes, fully support. Yeah, that's probably better, Rebecca. No shame is probably better than no judgment.
Like, there's always judgment. You know what I mean? Sa same way at the bar, it's like I want you to be happy, but secretly I'm judging you about your order for sure. You know what I mean? But like for instance, like you have a cauliflower uh pizza recipe, and you're like, a few cauliflower people, but here it is because I know you want it.
You know what I mean? So like it's an interesting stance it takes. So I'm sure in Chowhan is the same thing. It's like, well, I have to round up this series of things that I personally despise. Yeah.
However, it's like I want to give you a quality version of this thing that I despise. So that's where I did kind of have to be a little bit more restrained because I was under the CBS umbrella, you know, where I had you know that corporate influence because you don't want to get an RFP from a client that you know you maybe bashed three months ago and you're scrambling to hide that article. So at the end of the day, they're just there to make money, you know, as all these major corporations are. But um, but yeah, that is the tone I took for my with my book, and I did try to apply it to a lot of my writing. I just had to be a little bit careful with the calling out brands specifically.
Right, right. On the cauliflower pizza, by the way. When did that happen? Why did is that an Oprah thing? Did Oprah make that happen?
Uh no, because Oprah loves bread. So she shot the mash from the rooftops. But she has a colour, she has a cauliflower pizza brand. She has a pizza brand. Yeah, and the cauliflower mash.
Uh yeah, she's she loves a cauliflower moment. I mean, she loves listen, Oprah's got her big old like garden that she likes to show off on Instagram every day. And um, I'm sure that she just like had an abundance of cauliflower and was like, I'm gonna make this a thing, and it became popularized. But um, no, I feel like the cauliflower trend was there a lot longer than than Oprah's, or at least after she gave her seal of approval, made it a favorite thing. Oh yeah, so I guess like I just it does it didn't hit my radar until it got Oprah fight.
I mean, I guess you know, like I kind of like just to show you how out of touch I am, I lost touch with Oprah after she decided to sing her own theme song back when she still had that show. I was like, Oprah doesn't need to sing her own. She can get the best singers in the world. I don't have a theme song. You do for the cooking.
It's not a single song. I don't hear everything. I love to say the night show. It's not singing. It's not singing.
He does. He does sing many a jingle on the show. And you do get musicals, Dave. Yeah, it's true. I mean, who who does not love music?
You turned your life into a musical. Look, I love musicals. What do you want out of me? Wait, but Dave, do you like movie musicals? Because I I love musicals.
I'm a Broadway queen, but I hate anything that's put on the big screen. What about Mulan Rouge? Uh, not obsessed. Like, and I'll just go off and say I hated the prom. I don't know if you just saw it.
I know I didn't say it. Hate it. Oh, not just hate it. Loathed and like I just oh, it was a big miss. What about movies that have songs in them but aren't really musicals like Willy Walk in a chocolate factory?
Okay, I can deal with that. Kind of like a Wizard of Oz situation. Um that's fine. I think the only movie musical I was obsessed with was Chicago. Yeah, I never saw it.
Never saw it. What about Sounds? Was that Renee Zellweger did that? Yeah, Renee Zellweg, yeah, and Kathlezeta Jones. Um music, yeah, that's fine.
I feel like some of the the classics I can deal with more. Um because it is like it's supposed to be kind of campy and it it works for the times. But like South Pacific, like South Pacific, yes, no. Yeah, yes, yes. I don't know.
It's just it's kind of a general, I don't know. They rub me the wrong way. I don't know. I agree. Womp womp.
Nastasia doesn't like a movie. I'm not obsessed with those either, because I'm like, you're completely manipulating like my childhood memories, and I just I don't know. Maybe I'm a damaged person and this is like a trigger for me, but let's talk about it. You're talking about that Rebecca, you're talking about the live action Lion King now? Are there other ones?
Are you just calling out Lion King? No, no, I'm Mulan. Oh, yeah, I forgot that happened. No, like the live ones that they do that that are like on TV and they like it. Oh yeah.
Those are like the Grinch with Matthew Morrison. What? Oh jeez. Who based his Grinch off of uh the Joker? Like what?
Really? Every Grinch, every Grinch other than the original just didn't need to exist. And where the hell is Phil Bravo, Nastasi to do his yearly Grinch PS? Are we doing a show next week? I don't know.
I need Phil Bronzo's Grinch. I think we have to do a show next week. So I figured then. Next week. Alright.
Anyone who anyone who knows this show knows that we are fans of the original Thurl Ravencroft, aka Tony the Tiger singing the Grinch song Boris Carloff doing narration. Yeah, that's it. That's the Grinch. But I will say I do love Jim Carrey as the Grinch. I I know that may be an unpopular opinion, but I I think he's a good one.
In my house, that's unpopular. I mean, I look, Jim Carrey's one of those people that like amazingly talented, but like I don't know. Like, okay, Ace Ventura, could you watch that whole movie? Like the first three minutes of the funniest thing that's ever been filmed ever when he's that UPS guy, but the rest of it, I mean, really? I Jim Carrey, I either love him or hate him, you know what I mean?
And Grinches. What about us? He's a he's a great Biden. I think he's a great Biden. You know, but I don't know, what I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how we got into it. Yeah, sure.
Joey, I saw in your bio that you've been struck by lightning. Yes. Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? Can we talk about that? Sure can.
Um I it was the summer before my freshman year of college. I grew up in Florida, and you know, lightning's a bit unpredictable. And I was walking my dog, my dog was on a retractable leash. I lived on a cul-de-sac across the way I was getting the mail. Lightning actually hit the tree next to me, and the current traveled underneath, I guess, because of its roots, but it literally zapped my feet.
Um, I had welts and um like lacerations going up my legs, and literally all my hair was like standing on edge, and I had to go to the ER, and they ran a bunch of tests. But if it was a direct hit, I would have I wouldn't be talking to you right now. But yeah, hit hit the dog. The dog was fine, but this was what was so crazy because the dog was across the street on an uh island of g uh island of grass, but I jumped so high and so quickly when it happened that my dog's entire collar came off over his head without snapping off. Like I jerked it, yeah.
I jerked it that quickly. It was almost like a Houdini trick, and it just yeah, it was it was crazy. And then I was so disoriented, I actually ran opposite direction of my house. All I could see was like checkerboards in my brain. It was so bizarre.
The flash of light ruined my vision for a good 30 seconds. I ran opposite of my house, and um, by the time I kind of realized what happened, I just literally collapsed within our by my front door. It was it was awful. Could could could you what's it like? Could you even hear it?
Was it so loud that you couldn't even hear it? Like did your eardrums rupture? Yeah, no, my eardrums did not rupture, but it was extremely loud. It was like that that pop um of sound, and it was more so just ringing, and my my ears were ringing nonstop after that. But um how how is this not in your bio on on your website.
It is. No, I didn'm not sure. I feel like I'm like it's on the Amazon, it's on Amazon. That's where I Amazon. Yeah, for the book.
I was like, I did all her research, Dave. Joey, Joey, Joey. If I if I was gonna write an about me, and I got struck by lightning, that would be PS struck by lightning. It would be like Dave Lightning Arnold. You know what I mean?
I don't know. I want my other talents to speak for themselves. I'm sorry. That's what I put it. I put it in.
I put it in my book bio. If you get struck right before you arrive on campus freshman year, you've gotta be known as like the lightning kid, though, right? Oh, that's the lightning boy. No, I was just known as the closeted homosexual. That's basically that's that was my college uh nickname.
Um, I I don't know, because it I it's just it's Florida. Like, how Florida can that story be where you just like casually are getting the mail and then lightning hits a tree next to you and you get struck? I don't know, it's just kind of something you brush off. But uh Florida were now uh Naples, Florida. Oh Naples, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You ever go to that big marble uh big marble house? What is that ringling brothers, Barnum house, that big giant marble house? Isn't that in Naples? No, that's in Sarasota. Yeah, I think that's Sarasota.
The the circuit the circus is Sarasota, but I thought one of their mansions was down in Naples. My memory gets bad as I get older. It may be. There are a lot of random ass mansions in Naples, Florida. Yeah, I I went you ever go to the circus in Sarasota?
That was uh that was fun. I used to do that. No, I never never went. Nah, nah. That museum is wild.
Yeah, it did uh the cloud the clown college was there back in the day. It was. Uh did you ever did your taste buds change at all? Or did you have any like lingering like temporary when you got hit by lightning? Was like seriously, your sense of smell, or did anything get whacked out?
Like, did you have like some sort of spidey sense? Like, I'm just gonna kind of curious. No, the only like sensory thing that I noticed right away is that all of the saliva in my mouth was just gone. Like it evaporated. Uh so I I mean my go-to wasn't to go grab a bag of Cheetos.
It was to, you know, get rushed to the emergency room. But afterwards, I I don't nothing was lingering. And even the doctor, like, you know, they did the EKG, they did um the I think they I did I even get an MRI. I don't even remember. Um, but they ran a million tests, blood tests, everything, and I was fine.
Never noticed anything lingering. I wish I had a spidey sense that I developed, you know, after the fact, but no, nothing. Yeah. Well, you you make one up and then blame it on the lightning or attribute it to the lightning. Ever well, you know what?
As I feel like I'm starting to slip mentally, I I you know I keep blaming the pandemic. Maybe I should start blaming the lightning strike. There you go. There you go. So so before we get into the present, one more thing from your past.
You did PR for TLC, which why is that called the Learning Channel? What is anyone learning on that? It's not, they've re they rebranded it as just TLC, even when I was there, but they just didn't want to change it, I guess. Um so even though it stands for the learning channel, we never put that in any of our press materials. It was just always TLC.
And and you you ran the PR for a show that is currently ruining my life here in in my house because my son Booker is obsessed with my strange addiction. Only he thinks it's freaking real. Can you just tell him that like not to try to emulate any of these my strange addiction people? For real? Do not emulate, but it's absolutely real.
I'm telling you. Listen to this. I know. It's not the magic of television. These are actual people who reach out to the production company during casting who have legitimate issues.
And frankly, it's like the only time they can get help. It's a it's almost like a last cry for help, um, either because they're uninsured or they just don't have the means to you know to to find a psychiatrist. But a lot of these cases uh or all of them were real. We just, you know, obviously had to go through the vetting process and make sure that they could be put on television. Um, but it was the craziest experience.
And I would work with the production team being like, okay, which one of these lists of 12 people this season are, I guess, sane enough to be on television and do press interviews. So that was my job as kind of gleaning through and being like, okay, this person drinks their own blood, but they'd be great on Dr. Oz. Well, that that checks out that totally. You know, I I I worked for Dr.
Oz for a summer. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. When he was still doing actual doctor work, he ran a lab at Columbia where my mom's a uh professor, a doctor. And so I would get jobs at the at the labs, and you know, I was in his lab, it was crazy.
It was before he was big, before he was famous, but it's kind of weird. He that summer we were also working with um Dr. Jarvik, who is you know the person who made the purse first fake heart they put into somebody. Yeah, you know, my mom's in a trans map rope, which we're Jarvic quack, dude. I don't know, you see, my many was a nice guy, but like the stu the research we were doing, like it was we fundamentally sowed.
So I don't know how many much you guys think of human hearts, but like the left ventricle is like the strong thing that pumps out to the rest of the body, right? It's like the strongest part of the heart because it's oomph where it pumps the blood out to the rest of your body. And so they when your left ventricle is not strong enough, they make these things called L VADs, left ventricular assist device devices. This is back in the early 90s, numb, maybe not even, maybe late 80s, early 90s, I can't remember. And um, so everyone was making these things.
And so Dr. Jarvik came to Dr. Oz's lab because they developed this one that was like it looked like a little freaking mixer, dude. It was like an inline blender. And we're like, yo, this is gonna like ruin the blood, because blood, I don't know if you know this, blood doesn't like to be hacked up into tiny pieces, you know what I'm saying?
It's like it wants to go gently, like your your heart goes, not you know what I mean. And so we we're like, ah, so like they got this sheep, we put the sheep, the sheep, you know, it's a sheep. And you know, we it's you know, me and the other knuckleheads my age, we're assisting them with the operation, and we have to take care of the sheep afterwards. Sheep wakes up, it's like man, boom, hits the ground, dies. So like, yeah, yeah, it's blood that turned into slushy.
Yeah. We're like, yo, doesn't work, man. Doesn't work. Anyway, uh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah. You know what you don't want to visit? It like any place that they do uh animal testing, they they have a place where you have to, yeah, you have to dispose of the end. Well, the really sad thing is another summer I worked there, they were doing research, another heart, uh heart transplant research, because yeah, you you really when you're doing heart transplants, like one of the big things they've gotten really, really good at it, but when they were like earlier on, they they they used to have to try to figure out what kind of fluid they were gonna put it in, right? So like because they don't just like it it it you know they they have to perfuse it with like uh you know like some sort of fluid to mimic bodily fluid so it doesn't dry out or get all nasty as it's going in literally in a freaking igloo cooler in an airplane, like helicopter, learjet, however they're getting it from like the unfortunate donor to the lucky uh recipient, like it's in this, and so like they we were testing different fluids.
So literally we would get a pig, they would cut its heart out, they would cut a piece of the heart, put it in the fluid, and then take two little four steps and go and stretch it to see how stretchy the heart muscle was afterwards, and try to backcorrelate that to how likely you were to be able to resuscitate a patient or get the heart started again. But the here's the bad part. I don't know, this is why I brought it up. We were not allowed to use the rest of the pig. Once a pig has been used for medical research, even though we weren't putting any nasty stuff into it, it all had to go to waste.
How'd the pressing set? No Sunday morning bacon, that's sad. No, although I have to say, you do you guys know what a bovey is? So the bo above is like an electrocoter cottery device. So like it's it looks like it looks like a little tiny like spatula, like metal spatula, and and it like me and you like it cauterized the things.
Dr. Pimple Popper uses those. Uh oh, nice. Is that is that is that the new Dr. Zismore?
Is Dr. Is Dr. Pimple Popper the new Sismore? No, she's like way beyond that. She has a YouTube following of like nine million people and has a show on TLC actually, now.
It all comes full circle, yeah. Look, uh in my in my heart, the only dermatologist is Dr. Z. So, because I've broke watching stuff on the subject, but anyway. But anyway, thank you, Dr.
Zizmula. Remember this ads? Anyone remember his ads? Anyway, uh, yeah, it's like all these like you know, classic like New York, mopey New York types who are like, Thank you, Dr. Zismula.
I used to love that. Anyway, and on the subway, like the picture of like the the poor like teenager with like you know, like she had all kinds of skin problems, and then her with a big smile on her face afterwards. Thanks, Dr. Zizma. Anyway, uh, so anyway, so the the issue is when you're using one of these, when you're gonna operate on a human, you use a scalpel and you cut, you know, you make a nice cut and you use the electrocottery device to cauterize bleeders.
You know, and then plus we had what we used to call the Mr. Thirsty, you know, the the vacuum machine like you would have at the dentist to like get rid of all the fluids. But the surgeons didn't care because the pigs were on their way out, you know. I mean, they weren't gonna, so they would they didn't want blood everywhere, so they would literally make the incision with the with the bogey with the electrocottery device, and the whole room smelled like a mixture of death and and cooked pork, and so like every day I had to go out and eat BLTs just to reaffirm that I could still do this because it was so gross to me. What you were eating BLTs every day that you were working in this place?
I had to. I had I had to look otherwise, I didn't want to go clockwork orange on this thing, right? Where I can't listen to Beethoven anymore, so I had to like go out and do a bit. You know what I mean? Uh-huh.
Wow. Yikes. I thought I would have taken a couple years. You were stealing the meat and bringing it all back in with it. So I feel like this is a win for everyone.
They they oh they would have caught you. They would have caught you. Like, we we tried to use the parts, so like there was someone like there was someone like a couple floors down who was doing research on a different origin. And occasionally they'd be like, Can we come up and get the ingestions? We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm gagging. Oh my god. It's like, do you want a little formaldehyde with your you know, ham hock?
No, man. I I wish we had the formaldehyde, man. Dude, it's makes this makes your dissection room in high school look so mellow. And then when you uh like like God bless the people who I mean, whatever. There when you get when you're done with it, you have to go to this place that we used to have a sign on it, necropsy room.
That's where all the animal carcasses went afterwards. Oh my god, horror show. Like a complete, a complete horror show. Like, if you like, look, you know, we were very indoctrinated while we were going about the needs for vivisection for medicine and all this stuff, but if you have any anti-vivisection inclinations at all, if anyone secreted a camera into the into the necropsy disposal room, I mean, oh my god, it is a horror show. You know, it's like uh yeah, I'm yeah, all right, yay.
Uh, I'm like, you're triggering a PTSD because I took an animal rights class in college, and I legitimately went vegan for two weeks after that because I was horrified by what I saw, and now it's bringing back those memories. So that again. I was just gonna say thank you for you know speeding up this what was supposed to be a 2021 diet. Yeah, yeah, yikes. Yikes, you know, I'm I'm nothing if not triggering, right, Nastasia?
True. Yeah. Uh so speaking of triggering, you bring up Yankee Candle two times in your book. Do they really have a farmer's market scented Yankee candle? You better believe it.
And do you know how pissed off I am that the their PR person hasn't caught on yet and sent me like cases of them? Like, hey, if anyone out there's listening, send Joey's candles already. Yes, this looks free publicity for them. No, they do. It's a farmer, it's called Farmer's Market, and I'm obsessed.
What's it smell like? A farmer's market. But what's that smell like? No, it's like it's like cinnamon brooms. It's like Joey.
Dave and I have a farmer's market uh scavenger. Is it a scavenger hunt, Dave? Where you have to catch all of the things you have to find one hungover chef, a lesbian couple fighting about some type of fruit or vegetable, children learning about uh strange things, and the smell of lavender. What else was there, Dave? That's epic.
Uh well, well, Nastasia, do you want to pitch our other show where it's like who wants to be a millionaire? But the final nope. All right. She keeps saying no. I do think you should publish the whole scavenger hunt list like in the early spring in the Booger and Bax newsletter.
That's a good newsletter, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Alright. All right.
But we we but we can never in public talk about our other show, right, Stas? Yeah, let's okay. Your PR person is on the phone. So this is like the one week where you can't get away with this. Yeah.
This is why I don't listen to the show the rest of the time. Because I get too stressed. Sure, sure. All right, so Joey, uh, I forget what where you say it, but you you express your your well uh, you know, your correct hatred of malls. But yeah, for anyone for anyone who's old enough, none of you guys, like there used to be a candle store called Wicks and Sticks, and it was not a mall without wicks and sticks.
That is the 70s, 80s candle store like to beat and I feel like I feel like like Yankee Candle they have their own stores Yankee Candle right they don't just they don't only sell like in other places don't they? Yeah they have their and they knock you back right someone opens a Yankee candle door and go right it's like oh I love it. I welcome it with open arms I bathe in it it's a it makes like Sephora smell neutral it's like so it's it's like the entire corner of the mall like King of Prussia outside of Philadelphia like you could immediately tell when you were in like a 300 foot vicinity of the Yankee candle store I love it it's amazing. Good branding I want to make a I want to make a pitch for the wicks and sticks because I don't I have I I can't go into a Yankee candle store because of like triggering like I'll pass out from the aroma but like they don't do a lot of figure they don't do a lot of figure candles right that's why wicks and sticks were so awesome you need an old man candle wicks and sticks you need a candle in the shape of a weird kind of like dark crystal Muppet bird like wicks and sticks you know I'm saying yeah were they scented to reflect the shapes that they wore too like would there be like old man scent because I'm really into that idea uh okay so there so a flavor house that we used to work with David Michael had a of a scent called like old man flavor and body and it was a whiskey flavoring also one then wanted to make Dave's musk scent which is so disgusting remember that Dave well the idea is disgusting. I wouldn't uh co-sign that I am personally.
I mean, I am disgusting, but not because of my aroma. She was so into it it. It's just so gross to think. How do you do that? Do you take samples of like your sweat?
I don't know, man. I don't know. She's she's an expert. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Clayton and answer your question. Clayton in the chat claims that they saw someone having a seizure and Yankee candle because of the smell.
At least that's why they assume it happened. That's amazing. But also, I hope they're well. Yeah, yes. Okay, thank you.
Thank you for being a human, Joey. You're like that person's still alive. Kind of it's kind of rare when that happens, but yeah. Well, you're you're the North Star on the show. To answer your question, Rebecca, no, the figure they had scented candles at Whips and Sticks, but the figures were not scented because back in the 70s, people would buy these candles and then not burn them.
They would just sit on your shelf for decades. It was weird. Anyway. So if you get this book, which by the way, like I gotta be honest with you, Joey. When someone pitched this book to come on, I'm like, really?
Come on, man. Come on, it's not our style. And I read it, I had to say it's a charming book. It's a charming book. And uh because I like the attitude.
Your attitude is hey, listen, like I spend all day like for work dealing with these finely nuanced freaking things. And sometimes I just want what I freaking want, and I just want it. And we all do, and you should embrace that. Would you say it's accurate? 100%.
I always say I'm a professional eater, not a professional chef. And I this book has actually been an education for me. I didn't go to culinary school. I was learning things along the way. I worked with a recipe developer, and I'm the first to admit that.
So yeah, I wanted these no fuss recipes. But I also like wanted people to not be as intimidated by the kitchen because frankly, the majority of my cooking was done at three in the morning, coming back from the clerbs and kind of throwing things in a pot and seeing what happens. And I wanted these recipes to be translated into things that you can actually make or the general public can actually make, but have them be fun. And if they mess things up along the way, you can at like at least make fun of me instead of putting so much pressure on yourself. So yeah, that's totally my tone.
It's just good basic food, simple food, foods that have, you know, you have all the ingredients in your pantry most of the time. Um you're not afraid to use you're not afraid to be like, listen, buy the sumac. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And like, you know, you you you know, you call for cotiha and crema, which kudos to everyone should have kochiha in their in their fridge for when they run out of their uh other graded cheeses.
But like, by the way, interesting call crema, you use crema several times, and I did not know that that'd become like a like a general knowledge thing, or is it not a general knowledge thing yet? To just use crema. Well, but when you're say crema, are I'm assuming I assumed you meant like crema mexicana, like the very yeah, yeah, yeah. You could get like a cacique one, yeah. Is that a general knowledge thing at this point?
Or is that still like rather you need to live in the right neighborhoods? Um, almost kind of live in the right neighborhoods, which I feel I feel like that was the other kind of um side of basic bitching is that you know, obviously it's very, it's very simple, it's very approachable, but a true basic bitch also loves trendy things, you know. You know, like he or she will be like, ooh, moringa, you know, I want to put that in my smoothie, and they have no idea what the hell it is, but because someone said it's gonna, you know, do something good for them, make their skin glow a little bit more, they'll add it. So I feel like crema's one of those things, you know, you see maybe like Aron Sanchez, you know, cooking with it all the time. You're like, ooh, that looks good.
It's creamy and it's on Mexican food. Why the hell not? You know? So um things like a little bit of both. I think it's become definitely more mainstream, but it's also one of those things that's like extra.
Right. Well, and and in your book you put things that are crazy that you don't necessarily like you can't you do kale chips, although you admit that you actually like kale chips. I could be almost all I mean, like the whole kale thing, I don't get. I like cooked kale as a green, but like kale chips aren't kale chips aren't bad, but or like you have a you you you know, you you went through you say a whole bunch of iterations to come up with a uh a smoothie that you found tolerable, right? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Because you're like, you realize that your reader is gonna want these kinds of things, so at least you want something that's not like exactly. Um, you know, it that's the thing. I wanted to tailor it around everyone's individual likes and preferences, and I also wanted to take dietary restrictions into consideration because people participate either in fad diets or they just have genuine, you know, health issues. And I wanted everything to just be easy enough so that it was customizable.
But um, it's funny you say you you like a cooked kale as opposed to a kale on its own. Because I actually prefer, I don't like cooked if I well, A, I should I should preface it by saying if I cook kale, I should be putting on a pair of pens also because it just does not work with my stomach. So but the best kale salad that I swear will change your mind is at the Hollywood Roosevelt. It's so specific, I know. But they do a kale salad with a garlic vinaigrette with like parmesan cheese and pancetta and pine nuts and currants.
It is life-changing. If you hate kale, just fly to LA when you can and go to the Hollywood Roosevelt and get their kale salad. So I'm telling you, it'll change your mind, and I make it now almost every Christmas. So that sounds lovely. Aww, and speaking of kale going through your system when it's cooked, you have a get your motor running recipe for your celery uh green juice.
But is that the reason most people eat those things? Is to get their motor running? Because me, I just drink espresso. Yeah, there you go. I mean, so it's so funny.
I actually just started drinking coffee because of those those issues. I actually have colitis, so I have to be very careful with what triggers a flare up. Um trigger, I feel like is the key word for the day, by the way. Uh yeah. But I so I just now have become accustomed to being able to drink coffee.
But yeah, I think, but I do think beyond just intestinal benefits, with a lot of these smoothies and juices that I put in the book, it really is just capitalizing on these health trends that like Kylie Jenner, you know, posts about on Instagram. It's like, this makes my skin beautiful. And while we can poke the tea. Yeah, like dog tea. The tummy tea.
Yeah. And while we like definitely poke fun in this whole book, is you know, it's equal parts self-deprecating. It's uh it's also equal parts. No, there is some science behind a lot of these ingredients that are trending based on studies that were done that are supposed to help you with either your skin, your hair, your nails, your, you know, your immunity. Uh so that's why it's gonna it's a little bit of both.
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I I can't like you and I, oh wait, I'm not gonna get into the health arc. I don't, I'm one of these guys who like, I just like I'm gonna eat stuff that's delicious, yes, a wide variety in moderation, and like that's my only that's my only uh health thing that I will ever believe in. Although, yeah, like I say, we got in a huge argument, Nastasia got very mad at me. I believe in sports trainers have like very like you know, performance-based individually tweaked out for each individual human and blah blah blah. I believe all of that's true.
So I'm not gonna get into it because I don't want Nastasi to get mad at me again. Uh just so you can get a tone for the book. You know how every book has uh you know how every book has like little things that they have in the sidebars or stuff like that, like you know, anyone who's written a book, we all do it, right? But in this book, they are just the tips. Literally can't even the more you glow and basic basics.
So, like uh that because it gives you an idea of the of and some of the tips actually uh pretty good. I have to say, some of the tips are some of the tips are pretty good. Um being honest too, a lot of those tips I learned as I was making these recipes. Because again, I went into this kind of ignorant, I'll be honest. And when I would make something and throw like a dash of you know, hot sauce in, I would need that translated by a recipe developer being like, okay, that's gonna be a quarter teaspoon.
And so when I'm delving deeper into what I've been cooking all these years, I you know was doing a lot of research and thinking, what tips can I provide that I would have wanted to know, you know, as I'm making my own recipes, and that's how they that's how they happen. So it's my own ignorance that inspired it. This episode brought to you by Appeal. Here at HRN, we care about reducing waste across our food system, from farms to home kitchens. We know that about half of the produce we grow ends up in the trash.
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Learn more at Appeal.com. So look going over your recipes, I noticed that a couple of interesting things. Like uh one is that when you make a dressing, not your Caesar, actually, like kudos to you. Like your Caesar is very like traditional, which I feel like you never get a traditional Caesar salad in the case. My mom's, yeah, it's my mom's Caesar salad.
Yeah, and that that is real. While I enjoy what is called creamy Caesar now, that is not a Caesar salad. It's not, I mean, like, it's good, you know what I mean? But it's like a real Caesar is a thing, and it's uh it's rather austere and it's a thing of beauty. Although it means the anchovies.
If it's that's not the anchovies to me, it's not worthwhile, but that's me. I'm an anchovy lover. Uh I'm sure John has. Uh John, you have probably like very uh what's it called, very strong thoughts about the Caesar, don't you? No.
I do, yeah. When I worked at the Breslin, uh April had some very strong thoughts about it as well. So picked up a lot of what uh what she did there. And was she was she rather traditional in it or no? No, she kind of put her own spin on it, but very anchovy-heavy, and then she put in uh we put in a lot of blanch derbs in there as well.
Give it a kind of green color. It was very good. Yeah. And uh by the way, you also have a cob recipe, which I appreciate. Everyone loves cob salad.
Well, I was gonna say the gag about the the uh I call it the mom's not so sicilian Sicilian Caesar salad, is because I I mean you guys know this probably Caesar salad is not actually Italian, and um my mom, just because I come from a big Italian family, always assumed that because she didn't put a mayonnaise creamy base to her Caesar that it just made it Sicilian. Right. And I had to show her that is there's no such thing as a Sicilian Caesar salad. And she's making there is now, but she was calling that my she's calling it that my entire childhood. Um so that it's just a funny little story about yeah, how it's actually a more authentic Caesar, but um it it's definitely not Sicilian.
So but in your potato salad, right? In your potato salad, you know, cla classic, like you know, celery on it, all that stuff, but your your dressing, instead of it being like like very mayonnaise heavy, is a more traditionally salad dressing-y situation of like buttermilk, sour cream, and mayo. What made you go with that? I uh I don't know. I'm just like that, it's weird.
I think with the potato salad, it would that was definitely one of those things where it's just those are the ingredients I had in my fridge. Uh other than the buttermilk. I don't always have buttermilk in my fridge, but um, I yeah, I think I don't know. It's just I I actually let I wanted that recipe now that I'm thinking about it, and when I was developing it, I wanted it to be more mustard heavy than anything. I love a Dijon, I love a sharpness.
I think I have like two tablespoons of Dijon and two tablespoons of whole grain mustard, I want to say. So I when it comes to potato salad, when it came to that specifically, I was more into just the sharpness of it all. Um and I don't want something super creamy to counter that. I don't know. That's just it was a personal preference for me.
I'm a mustard whore. Like I'm the type where if you go in my fridge right now, I have at least 15 open jars of mustards. That's amazing. Yeah, and I'm a mustard whore too. Yeah, I mean, I just there's one recently.
Oh my gosh, I have to get a family show. Um they mustard lover for mustard. Mustard lover, yeah. Uh um, no, there's a dill pickle mustard that I just tried. It is life-changing.
Um, I'm pretty sure you could just put it in Amazon. I bought it at Publix when I was in Florida. And if this is uh this is coming from someone who was struck by lightning saying that this mustard is life-changing. It's it's my favorite. So yeah, long story.
Where are you right now that you're going to a Publix? You're not. No, I'm I'm back in New York, but I was I was home for Thanksgiving um for about a month, so yeah, yeah, Publix. Man, I haven't been in a Publix in like 15 years. Where shopping is a pleasure.
Yeah, yeah. You ever you ever go out to LA and shop at Ralph? I sure have. I knew Ralph's was coming up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The store that sounds like you've thrown it up already. Ralph. Um should do their marketing. Yeah, yeah. So in your potato salad recipe, you intimated that people don't like potato salad anymore.
Is that true? I think so. I found it to be very polarizing, and it's because I think a lot of them are just so heavy with the mayonnaise that it makes it turn into a mush. And then when you're bringing it to a picnic during the summer and you're it's getting to room temperature, it's just people look at it as a side of mush. For me, I don't mind it because I love that texture play.
Like I'm the type of person where I like soggy cereal. Like I'll go take a bowl of life cereal and let it sit out for 15 minutes before I even eat it. Um but we found actually a chow hound that potato salad was really like off putting and polarizing for people. We had no idea, but it was a texture thing. Huh.
Yeah, I did not know that. Yeah. So now listen, I'm gonna give you one where I think we totally agree. Okay. And then one uh one where I totally disagree with you.
I'm gonna read this uh section. Uh-oh. Uh the person who invented the open floor office plan deserves each and every one of life's misfortunes. This also applies to the person who decides to eat trail mix in an open office floor plan. There is a time and place for crunch.
1 p.m. on a Thursday during literal crunch time is not ideal, Karen. And while my trail mix, chock full of nuts, dried fruit and chocolate may be hard to resist. It's certainly more appreciated on a hike during a walkthrough park or post berry's boot camp when your cringeworthy chewing noises can be masked by chirping birds and babbling brooks. Thank you in advance for attempting to not turn to be an awful human.
Now, I hate crunching, especially when I'm hungry or when I'm working on cooking somebody else's food, or when I'm trying to read or do anything, crunching is a no-no. Okay. I appreciate this section. But do you agree about the off the open office floor plan as well? Because I uh I loathe them.
Oh, they're bad, but like to me, like to me, that's like old. That's like that's like old bad. That's like George Bush versus I'm not gonna get into it. Like, that's like that's like the old bad. You know what I mean?
Like the new bad is you don't even have your own place in an office floor. You have to put your cap in a cubby at the end of it. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. Anyway.
Dave, was would you say the last open office floor plan you worked in was um the sheepheart uh setup that you want? Maybe. Yeah, yeah. Nastasia and I had that open trash room. It was like, sweet.
Now my now my wag of the finger, truffle Mac, truffle Mac, dude. You gotta understand, like, as a guy in his late 40s, like, you know, I'll be 50 50 next year, right? Like, I grew up in the era when people just like cracked open that bottle of truffle oil and were like all over everything. You're walking to like, like, imagine like early Stanton social, like where like it was already like over, but for some reason, like everyone coming in across every bridge and tunnel they could find still wanted their pizza like crust soaked in truffle oil, and you would walk past the bar and be like, whoa! Those were basic bitches.
They want their truffle oil. But what I can't do it. But you disagree with the truffle mac and cheese just in general. It's like it's like uh I almost had like both, like I almost had Wiley Dufrein, my brother-in-law, hold me down to have Dave Chang punch me in the face because I was making a pitch. This is in like like 2002 or 2004, maybe 2004.
2004, yeah. I was making a pitch for Wasabi mashed potatoes because I think that they taste good. Yeah. And they were like, they were like, it's absurd, it's culturally bad, it's made by bad people for bad reasons. I was like, the problem is, dudes, it tastes good.
You know what I mean? Like, that's the issue I have with it is that it tastes good. I was like, do you like horseradish mashed potatoes? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, okay, but what if it is wasabi instead?
And then like, it was like it was like knockdown dragon. It was a fine. Or taking like an actual wasabi root and grating it instead of using that, you know, green. What's up, Richie Rich? Uh anyway, so Hey, but you'll appreciate this about the truffle mac and cheese.
I did make a point of saying in the book that a lot of truffle oils are actually synthetically flavored. And I said that on Wendy Williams a few weeks ago. Oh, yeah. And I say to use a truffle butter because you could see the flex of the actual truffles in it. But yeah, it's a little bit more bougie.
Um but I appreciate that. I yeah, I mean, but uh it was funny though, because I was on the Wendy when I was on Wendy, she could not have cared less. She was just like Yeah. She liked it. I was gonna say, what was she?
I was gonna say, what was she like? It was unique. No, I've taken it was just weird. It was like a complete 180 for me because I used to take talent to her show when I was a publicist. Like she took Mama June there to make Skety, which is literally just butter and ketchup and noodles.
And she started the segment with a lie. I mean, I'm not gonna blame her for it because Wendy interviews thousands of people all the time. And she said, When you were here last, you shouted, Oh, I'm Mama June's personal chef. You'll see me back here. And I eh, never said that.
I was like, where did that come from? So she started the segment like that. So imagine me literally wanting to crap my pants when that happened. Because I'm like, no. Then I wanted to make it very clear that I was not uh the personal chef of a woman who eats roadkill and literally like ketchup butter noodles.
So then that moment had to happen. And then it was like, okay, I guess I'm gonna cook now. Um so it was a very unique experience. But like she's I mean, she was a sweetheart, she really did like the food. Um it just was a very jarring for me live television when that's the first thing that came out of her mouth, and I had to correct her and be like, I was her publicist, not her chef.
Right, right, right. Well, similar thing. You're the chef for her for her her, the chef of her information. How about that? I don't I don't think she would have gone for that metaphor, but um yeah, that's a bit of a stretch, but I I feel like you um I corrected her though immediately.
All right, I mean now, like in terms of kind of like over the top, first of all, uh before I get into this, case it is people need to not hate on quesadillas because they are delicious. I gotta talk to you about your gluten-free tortilla recipe. It's tapioca and chickpea. So presumably chickpea gives it some protein structure and a tapioca gives it some stretch. But how is it compared to it?
Yeah, how is it compared to an actual like flour tortilla? That they're good. Here's the thing. I'm gonna be honest with you. This I'm I'm gonna cancel myself right now.
I'm actually one of those types of people who I'm not obsessed with quesadillas. I mean, I I think they serve a purpose. You put a crap ton of cheese on them. It's the best, like I would say drunk food. A lot of this food is drunk food in my book.
Um, but it's like something that I would crave three in the morning, something they could dip something into. These hold up, and I it is because of the tapioca flour, and I did want to bring in a chickpea flour to it because I think that was having a moment last year with the protein um with uh obviously the protein amount, but I personally would not be going for a gluten-free tortilla. Um, I would be just, you know, nothing on one chuck full of gluten. But these these hold up. I just I again it was like I wanted to create something that would appeal um to someone who maybe did have dietary restrictions.
But why why was chickpea why was chickpea having a moment? It's just one of those things, again, being in food editorial, and it's funny because a lot of it's usually an SEO game. You kind of see what's trending and you want to like write about it, it'd be page one on Google. And chickpea flour was one of those things. I think obviously flour alternatives were having a big moment.
Most people were going towards almond, coconut, uh, but not realizing that there was a chickpea flour that was on the market. And chickpea flour is actually quite common. Uh, but uh when you can use it for something as simple as a quesadilla and something that is so mainstream, uh, you know, a lot of light bulbs went off for a general or typical consumer. So yeah, long ago I was taught that chickpea flour is the secret to a crispy dosa. A little bit.
A little bit. Uh yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So speaking of over-the-top recipes, what about these bacon?
I forget the title you gave them, but these bacon meat and cheese tubes. Are you talking about my mini meatloaves? Yes. Yeah, I was like, or are you talking about the everything pigs and a fluffy down comforter? No, we can talk about that.
We could talk about that because I I appreciate making everything bagel mix, which everyone should have around. But I I recently had a bad moment with everything bagel mix because elaborate, yeah. Well, well, um, the garlic and the and the and the onion flakes, they burn like a mother. Like you gotta keep your oven temperatures low. So I was making bagels, and like I got a lot of scorching on that.
I think the reason they don't sell everything bagel mix at the store is because it it stratifies so quickly. All the poppy seeds go in one direction and the garlic goes and the onions go in the other. But uh your your recipe is cooked at 400, so I don't think you're gonna get scorching on the everything bagel, and I think it was only on the top of my memory serves. So I don't think you're gonna get scorching problems, but I had real scorching problems on on on mine. Yeah, no, I was not talking about that.
I'm talking about your mini meatloafs, which by the way, if you if you did believe in health, this is a heart attack. This makes Jimmy Dean pancake on a stick look like look like uh spa food. It's like uh yeah, you want to describe these sucker? Yeah, so I grew up in a meatloaf family. Actually, I grew up, you know, meatloaf was my mom made a very healthy version of meatloaf.
She's actually a bodybuilder because she competes competitively. Competes competitively. Wow, I need I need more coffee. Um yeah, so she was all about high protein, lots of vegetables, but as a result, she wasn't putting in a lot of the good stuff, you know. Like she wasn't putting in a lot of cheese, she really didn't bind it with the bread.
Um, so I kind of wanted to flip the script a little bit and do mini meatloaves wrapped in bacon and have it be a meatloaf that I enjoy. Um so yeah, you know, I added a little bit of sugar. Um, you know, it's it's it's pretty traditional, other than I don't really use ketchup, and I know that's polarizing for people. Um, because I know some people are I think like they're loyal to their ketchup and their meatloaf. I don't know.
What are your thoughts on that? Ketchup, nice! It's America's favorite ketchup. I know. Oh, but oh by the way, I'm assuming everyone here watches supermarket sweeps.
They did a ketchup thing and and uh supermarket sweep and hunts paid for it. I was like, yo, Hunts, really? Come on. You know what I'm saying? It's so funny because I actually did a series at Chahong called Sauced, and our first episode, it was me just taking five of the highest ranked condiments on Amazon in a category, and um Hunts was a part of it.
I did a catch-up episode. But Hunts did not get last place. No, Hunts is fine, but Heinz. Oh yeah. Heinz got Heinz is the one.
Heinz has the one second. Heinz got second. There was one called Camden's, and it was amazing. It was it had a little bit of jalapeno. Camden, New Jersey?
I think it was based out of Seattle this place. Oh Jesus. Alright, so uh so in terms of terms of bringing things back. What's up, cheese ball? You're like cheese balls are great, and guess what cheese balls are?
Cheese balls are great. People, if you've never lived in the 70s before, please think about the cheese ball. Do you want to talk about cheese balls, Joey? I love a cheese ball moment. Um I love also that they're completely customizable.
So I think, like, you know, based on the season, you can kind of throw in what you want. I actually just made one. Um, what the hell did I put in it? I think I like topped it with figs and I threw in like a little bit of blue cheese. Um I don't know.
I did that too. Wait, really? And it was with that. We soulmates. Um, but yeah, the one in the book is, you know, I think the classic is to cover it obviously with pecans and the pimento cheese, and it's very southern.
And I've lived in Georgia for seven years as a kid. I moved in fourth grade. So a cheese ball was always on the table with a southern spread, along with um you know, homophobia and racism. Oh good. Perfect.
You know, that's southern upbringing. I'm kidding, that's stereotyping, but it definitely did exist. They don't know what drugged at your table. And I'm not saying it was my family's table. I went to a lot of parties, so my parents are very parents are very accepting of me, so in your cake after.
Speaking of southern food, I have a here's another question I have for you because this is what I like so you try to draw that you you you kind of walk this like interesting line where you're doing like what you call like you know basic bitch recipes, but then you're not necessarily going what I would consider like the go-to on the ingredient, you're going a little deeper. For instance, in your case, in your caso, you give what I think is a great tip, which is to go to the deli counter and ask for them to ha you know, hack off a piece of that government cheese and hand you the block. So you can grade it, which right, that's the way to do it. Like everyone knows who knows that that's the way you do it, but then you don't go rotel. You know what I'm saying?
It's like no, because I'm not hashtag sponsored, so if I would have gotten money, I would have called no. Um I would have changed my mind. Yeah, you know. No, you know, you can't just give it away for free. I think kind of the yeah, exactly, right?
I think the mentality I had was just I people don't understand that there's so many ways to approach a grocery store that they don't realize. Like, even just during Thanksgiving, my mom um wanted to make short ribs, and um, there was a very specific type of cut that it called for. I'm like blanking on the name. But she didn't know that she could just go to the butcher at Publix and be like, can I have it cut this way? So I wanted to just show that you can kind of befriend your everyone at your local grocer and ask for things that are very specific, and they will more likely than not cater to what you want and need.
And nine times out of ten, the quality of the ingredients, instead of getting that generic mainstream crap that's chock full with artificial ingredients, like it's just everything's just gonna be better. So I just yeah, my goal was to like how to take something very basic, something very mainstream, but just elevate it the slightest bit. And even if you don't do that and you want to do the rotel, you know, situation, God bless, that's fine too. You know, work work with what you have, but kind of just wanted to show people that there is a a life to the grocery store beyond just walking around dreary-eyed with a shopping cart and and literally hating yourself. That makes sense.
Yeah, here's another question. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. Okay, do you actually like stevia or do you just know people are gonna use it and you thought the lemonade would hide hide it? I actually do use stevia. I think it's the best sugar substitute.
I know a lot of people hate that. Oh my god. I know this is okay. This is where my bodybuilder mom, you know, influenced me because she put Stevie on everything. Uh, does it replace sugar?
Absolutely not. Are you kidding me? But um, I I don't know. I still think Stevia and monk fruit are neck and neck with the best sugar substitute. If I do anything with like aspartame, sucralose, I again will need a hashtag sponsored by DePends.
So we're gonna have to agree to disagree, but uh, I will give I will give you that because of your ziploc with the with the project, which is a which is a good move. Okay, with the Zlock. So I'll I'll give you, I'll give you that. Uh I have it in my freezer right now, actually. Smart.
That's smart. You know what? It's always the right weather for rose. People need to stop only drinking rose and pink stuff in the summertime. I think.
I agree. And people don't realize just how easy Froze is. They think they need like a like almost like a Mr.'s like uh what are those machines? What were the icy machines? The slight like one of those slushy machines, yeah.
Yeah, and I'm like, no, you literally just need a blender, you know, throw in some strawberries, lemon juice, strawberries will help bulk it up a bit too if because it does melt quickly. Um and ice, like it's it's not difficult, and it's amazingly refreshing year-round. All right, so three three or four quick things because then Matt's gonna kick us off. One, okay. Did you invent the term micro influencer?
No, no, no, no. That's been around. We we we use that to um talk about people who think they're more important than they actually are. That is that is my favorite new con new to me concept is the micro influencer. But there is a uh value to being a micro influencer because a lot of these people who have, let's say, under 25,000 followers, they have a very dedicated and loyal following who will literally buy whatever they are told to buy.
So engagement engagement, exactly. So now more brands, and this is the media geek, you know, coming out on me. More brands are turning towards micro influencers to do hashtag sponsor posts because they know they're gonna get a greater return. Whereas these bigger, you know, influencers, they kind of just post something, it goes to die, you know, weeks later, and um they don't really get so much of a return on their, you know, people aren't really buying the product, it's just a glamour shot. So no, no.
All right, also quick you have a bone to pick with people who blame their uh their genes on their cilantro patriot. Yes, but I get it. I mean, if there's science behind it, we're we're all pro-science here, right? I don't know. Well, the only thing is like you think people in Mexico don't have that gene and they all eat uh all the food has cilantro, like some people they can taste the soapiness, yeah, and yet they still like it.
True. I just yeah, I mean, that was that's what's interesting. Cause I grew up in a cilantro household and we put that on everything. And I never tasted the soapiness. So when I actually worked for food and wine and wrote for them when I was doing a lot of news stories, that's when that big study came out saying that, oh, it's tied to a genetic thing.
Um, so I forgave them a little bit, but I don't know. Sometimes like super picky eaters just piss me off in general because I'm like, at least just try it, you know, or try it in a different way. And um, that was yeah, that's the only reason why I included it. Second to last thing. Uh, are you familiar, uh, Joey with the with dunk meals?
Yeah, of course. Okay, so your answer to the dump meal is the sheet pan dinner discuss. Yeah, so sheet pan dinner. I like I said, I actually, even though I wrote a cookbook, I still prefer eating over cooking any day. Like the process is like very therapeutic for me, but there are just those times where I come home after a long day and I am tired, I don't even want to look at a stove.
And Sheepan Dinner is such an easy workaround where you just throw a protein, a starch, and a vegetable on one pan. They all have the same sauce. They cook for the same temperature, uh cook at the same temperature for the same time, and you're done. 30 minutes tops, it's amazing. If you're like a busy mom or dad and you've got to come home cook for a family, they're like the best choice.
Like a dub cake or dump meal, yeah. And by the way, uh I'm I don't have time to go into it, but like one of the uh later, someone someday asked me about planchist and Jose Andres and constant temperatures and griddles. Uh now listen, before I go out, I can't let this go out without discussing pumpkin spice, because I you know, it's like the first thing you bring up in the in the book, right? Uh and so uh the quote is and by the way, in this, you admit to Uggs, at least a former Ug, even though currently in your introduction, you are Ugless. I'm Ugless.
Uh Uglist. Uh on a scale of one to I want to punch you in the face. I'm practically a broken jaw when it comes to how annoying I am about the arrival of fall. Uh now wait a minute. Here's a question I have for you.
Over the past now, you probably wrote this book what, a year ago, year and a half ago? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So this last season, since this book was in press, there was this anti-fall backlash where it was kind of labeled as a Karen thing. And by the way, you were relatively early on the Karen train because Karen's are mentioned at least once or twice in this book.
Man, yeah, you have a finger finger on the pulse. But like, what do you think? Do you feel that there is an anti fall backlash, or is it still what's going on? I think, I don't know. This year, I think the sentiment is just do what makes you happy.
Um, obviously, the fall fall brings up the association with the basic bitch lifestyle, and then the basic bitch lifestyle brings in the negative aspects, like the Karen's of the world who are getting way too much screen time with society. And I kind of now approach fall like I always have been, even though it's turned into a stereotype with wearing the Barbara scarf and the Uggs and going to Central Park and taking pictures with your pumpkin spice latte under a tree that's really pretty. Live your life. If it feels good, if it tastes good, treat yourself because this has been a rough time for everyone. So I don't understand the backlash.
I think everyone just needs to kind of do just do what makes them happy and shut up. It doesn't affect you. I wish I could I I wish I could end on that because that's nice, but I have to ask you some questions about the recipe in general. Okay. Yours actually have pumpkin in them, which is unusual, right?
They usually have pumpkin, didn't they? No, it's like usually a syrup. If you go to Starbucks, it's the you know the pre-pump syrups. Yeah, I mean, I I make full disclosure. My, you know, in the morning, Jen, my wife has lattes, and in the winter time, fall winter, I make her a pumpkin spice mix so that she can have, you know, that in her inner stuff, but it's just a syrup.
I never considered uh this whole actual pumpkin, and what does that do to it? But you then you need the cream, right? Otherwise, the structure won't be there. Like, do you need it to be thicker then? Yeah, so what I actually do is I cook down the pumpkin, and there's also controversy around, you know, canned pumpkin not being actually pumpkin.
But if you want to get another that it's actually like a pumpkin so expensive that I can't afford real pumpkin, what the hell? I exactly. I mean, there's controversy that it's actually like squash or like a type of squash and not actual pumpkin. I know. Hey, but hey, d hey, hey people, do you know what pumpkins are?
They're squashes. Uh yeah, no, there's that's a whole deep dive that you could do an entire episode on. But um, yeah, no, you just cook it down on the stove. What I actually do is I take it off of the stove and I put it in a blender, um, and I mix it then, you know, with the sugar, um, and then is when I I I also put in the milk to kind of make it a little bit frothy. Um, but the whipped cream is actually just the topper.
Um, just to make it pretty and um but really it's it's it's about taking it from the stove, putting in the milk, frothing it up, and then obviously you have to have your homemade pumpkin spice blend, which is completely customizable if you think like cloves are too strong, taste. Well, I noticed no nutmeg. I noticed no nutmeg, Joey. No, I have nutmeg. You are lying to me.
Nutmeg is in the recipe. Let me see. Let me see. Swept to page one. Yeah.
While I'm looking, while I'm looking, let me see here. Okay, three. Three, well, one one one, page. 11, okay. Three tablespoons ground cinnamon, two teaspoons ground ginger.
All right. So that's uh, by the way, so what do you think about people that use too much ginger and turn it into a gingerbread spice uh latte? I know they can do whatever they want, but what do you think about it? Yeah, you can do whatever you want. I am personally there it is, nutmeg.
I go gloss over, it went to Oswald's. That's actually a lot of nutmeg. That's a lot of nutmeg. I love a nutmeg moment, but I actually really love ginger. Um, so if someone ODs on the ginger, I'm into it.
I I I like a little ginger moment. How did I miss that? Because I literally wrote in my notes, like, where's the nutmeg? Unless I just skipped right over it to the but what are your thoughts on nutmeg versus mace? Ooh, uh, good question.
I don't cook with or bake with mace um uh often. Um I I just still prefer a fresh nutmeg. I I'm that I'm that bitch who is you know grating it over stuff, and I actually put it in my macaroni and cheese too, because I believe that it's that I like the nuttiness in uh in a in a cream sauce. But um that's very classic, right, John? A little nutmeg in your in your cream sauces.
Yep. It is the French do it. And if the French say that it tastes better that way, then I'll I listen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, and by the way, I mean, you say that you can make it with two percenter skin, but you really hate those people, right? That's in your literally can't even 100%. Like, I I if I could do heavy cream, just really go crazy. So uh we gotta go. All right, Teddy.
Thanks, thanks for coming on. And on the way out, just listen, Nastasia's judging you. I know you're a fan of Christmas songs, so you say what's your favorite my favorite Christmas song? Yeah. Of all time.
Oh my gosh. It's gotta just be a Mariah Carey All I want for Christmas is you because I'm CASIC! Cooking action. Thanks for coming on, cooking it. Cooking issues is powered by Simplecast.
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