Step inside and let the excitement take you places. This is Muckle Shoot Casino Resort, the ultimate spot for action that reaches incredible heights, luxury that knows no bounds, and live entertainment that always thrills. It's all at one incredible destination. So when you look for the best, look nowhere else. Muckle Shoot Casino Resort, the biggest and best in the Northwest.
Must be 21 and over. Please gamble responsible. Muckle Shoot! This episode is brought to you by Just Egg. It's a better egg made from plants.
Bring more customers in your doors with just egg. Start with a free sample at J U.ST slash H R N. This episode is brought to you by Tuktukbox. Sharing Southeast Asian stories at your doorstep. Learn more at tuktukbox.com.
That's T-U-K, T-U-K Box.com. This week on Meet and Three, we dedicate our stories to elders, grandparents, and family members who came before us. Some people called on the phone. What time is your appointment? Mine's 2.45.
Our friend the dentist, he was 3 30. And it was like a social event. It's a small island. A lot of them I knew when I was a kid. So it was, you know, to really help them feel like they they weren't alone.
It's currently this communal nature of food, and so it can operate as a bridge. Um, not just between neighbors and friends, but also between the living and the dead. Listen to Meet and Three wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues Coming to you live! I'm actually in Stanford, actually, right now.
I'm in Stanford in the house of Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Stas? Good. How are you? Uh I'm okay.
I'm okay. Yeah, we're vaccinated, so uh we're good. John is downstairs. How you doing? Doing great.
Yeah, he's downstairs. We've uh relegated him to downstairs because uh he had to bring uh so he has a dog named Koji. Oh, we have Matt in Rhode Island. He had uh John has a dog named Koji for the uh it's the second Japanese-based K dog name, Japanese food K dog name that I know of during the the pandemic, but he didn't want to leave leave uh Koji alone, so Koji is downstairs because at Nastasia's house, there's like like a lighthouse person's stairs that you have to go up, and the dog was like, nah, nah, not going up. Not going up.
Right? Is that pretty much accurate, John? That's very accurate, yes. So it's not that we're making you stay downstairs like like at a kid's table at Thanksgiving. It's that did you have a kids' table at Thanksgiving when you were growing up?
Yeah, I did. Did you like the kids' table or hate the kids' table? I like the kids' table because I'm not enough to speak with the adults. Ooh. Yeah.
Yeah. I was uh I grew up until I was much older, only child, so I didn't have a kids' table. I was like, you know, I was always with the adults, but I always dealt better with adults anyway than with uh people my own age. Which is weird because now I don't deal well with adults. Uh Matt, how's uh Rhode Island treating you these days?
Uh things are things are good. Very excited that all the flowers are popping off. You know. Yeah. Happy days.
We could talk about that later, but uh right now, most importantly, we have a special guest today. We have uh, so you might rem well you know him from what he we have Frankie Salenz is here at Frankie Cooks. Uh you could uh check uh struggle meals on Taste Made. But listeners of this show who didn't already know him, know him as the person that wrote John into cooking for Novak Djokovic when he was doing the US Open. How you doing, Frankie?
I'm doing great. This is uh this is true. John and I did do that, yeah. Yeah. And so, like, as someone who actually likes to cook, like, what was it like to be like, how's about everything is room temperature with no salt?
Yeah, well, it's actually this is the third year I've done that for him, but this year was particularly hard, obviously, with the pandemic. So John was a big, big relief because not only were we cooking for Novak and his team, all of whom who have different diets, we were also cooking for uh like Novak's host family, nine other people. So we were basically a full-time restaurant for uh 25 days or something, because it was a week of quarantine going into the Cincinnati Open, which was in New York, going into the week leading up to the US Open, going into the US Open up until the point when he hit the lineswoman in the throat with the ball by accident and got disqualified. Yeah, no, now how did that if he had hit her in the throat during the course of normal play, it would have been fine, right? That's it.
If it were like if it it had deflected off his racket, actually that happened in his next tournament, and obviously that's fine because that's that's an accident. But if you're frustrated and you're just whacking a ball without looking, and it unfortunately collides with another atom, causing irreparable harm. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So so but he he hit someone in the throat in the next tournament, but it was cool. Yeah, because he was like going for the ball in the middle of the point.
Sure, he was. He hates that line. He hates that person. He's he's like a pitcher pushing people back. He's pushing them off the back off that line.
Boom, in the throat. I I feel bad for him. I mean, uh, I really do. You know, he's just like, was it was it on a serve? Was it one of those like hundred mile an hour serves right in someone's throat?
No, no, it was just like, oh darn, I missed the point, and then I he just like whacked a ball underhand without looking, and uh it just unfortunately hit this woman right in the Adam's apple. No, I mean, well, that's hilarious. But I mean, no, the next tournament when he did it, when he clearly did it on personal. And he's like running for the forehand and doing his infamous gumby reach, and then it like hit the outer edge of the frame, which is not hitting the strings, and then shot off on a 45 degree angle instead of bouncing back, you know, and then that hit the person in the face. Speaking of Gumby, uh, are you familiar with how thin Gumby's arms are?
I mean, I assume they get longer as they stretch out, too. Yeah, but they're th but they're thin in general. So Nastasi and I are trying to angle for a weak emoji, and I imagine that it's kind of like a gumby arm bent in the strong position, but weak. I have a a prototype of the in case anyone's interested, I have a prototype of the weak emoji, but like there's no way the strong emoji is what? The strong emoji is just like a bicep.
Yeah. Like, well, it's the it's the fist and the bicep, but like with a very pronounced elbow and like, you know, the person has also like decent forearm definition, but it's mostly about the the bicep. So I have a prototype of the of the weak emoji, which is the same motion, but weak. What do you think? Yeah, no definition.
Sounds good. Yeah. Sounds great. Yeah. I mean, isn't there a need for it?
I mean, I feel like Nastasi and I say weak almost as much as we say strong. And when the strong, whenever I type strong, it's like, how about just bicep? I'm like, okay, bicep, bicep. But like when I type weak, it just says weak. Which is weak.
Weak. Definitely. Who do you submit a new emoji to? Who governs? What's the governing body for emoji?
I don't know. Oh, I'm helping out with food emojis right now. It's a pretty crazy process that takes like two or three years to get it done. It's like some internet governing body. Oh, where's that?
But what about there's a need for this? This is overlooked. It takes them 20 seconds when they want to change an emoji. When they figure out that an emoji is offensive and they want to change it. It takes them 20 seconds, but it takes them like two years to make like a slice of pizza.
Yep. Yep. Very different. Is the standard emoji, since you're clearly the expert, John on this, is the standard pizza emoji a pepperoni or a plain slice? I don't know.
There is some variance between the different operating systems, like between Samsung and Apple, and then Google has their own, so there's like a little room for personality. But I know like a lot of the factors that go into the decision making is like, is it similar enough to other foods? Um that increases the chances of its being accepted. They're also doing a big push for What would they want it to look similar? Yeah, so that it can, you know, sort of be interchangeable.
So it can have multiple meanings, not just the one. You're like, no, no, that was that wasn't so it's plain pizza. That was actually a key line pie. No, it's pepperoni. Well, that's crazy because pepperoni makes it into a pizza.
Otherwise, it could be a slice of anything. It could be a slice of anything. That's true. But now apparently what's John is telling me is that they want it to be a slice of anything. Ooh, it's quiche.
No, it's pizza. You know what I mean? It would just be funny if like the people of the Naples, Vera Pizza Napolitana, like came along and said, it is offensive that you're using this abomination of a pizza slice, uh, the one from New York, which is uh fast food, and ours is tradition, and you must change it immediately. Of course, it's funny that you call that that they would make fun of fast food considering that there's cooks cooks in quotes. I'm putting cooks in air quotes.
90 seconds. 90 seconds, yeah. Cooks, quote unquote. Let me ask you a question. I like Neapolitan style pizza.
It is not a replacement for pizza, though. Yeah. Right? It's not a replacement for pizza. Listen, um Dave, I think we can agree.
Like, we're in this world of it's really hard to say what the best is. There's just a lot of variety, and I think that's a win for everyone. Yeah, I mean, there there are bad things. That is true. Like this people I don't believe in the best, but I do believe in the worst.
There are things that are just bad. Doesn't mean just because there's no right answer doesn't mean there aren't wrong answers. I I can get on board with that for sure. Yeah. Now, uh, okay, so the reason uh that we uh have you on is that uh John thought you might enjoy discussing uh we're we're talking about and it this fits in with I guess with with struggle meals and a lot of stuff you've been working on during the pandemic where you've been doing a lot of uh kind of lower cost uh fun meals for people to do.
Is it what you say it's accurate? Is that an accurate pitch? Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. So uh uh we thought that you know you might be a good person to talk about about starting a battery to cuisine.
Say say it say it in uh super French there, John. Say that what Battery de cuisine. Say it in super French. Batterie de cuisine. Oh, yeah, wait, one more time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Batterie de cuisine. Yeah. Uh you know, can you say it like you're uh an a 75-year-old French man? What?
Batterie de cuisine like that. No, you have to be more like put more pain in your voice. Come on. Come on, man. Uh batterie de cuisine.
Better, better. Better, better, better. Nice. All right. Uh look, John, yeah, you sign up for it, you sign up for it.
This is what you get. You know what I mean? Like, you know, as we say in my job, yeah. You get what you get, you don't get upset. Um so we're gonna talk about that, but I figured maybe we rip through some um you want to try to rip through some questions so people don't get pissed?
Yeah. Well, wait, before you do questions, oh can I just interrupt one second and just tell you uh I took a an FCI class with you something like 10 years ago on uh low temp in Sous vide. Uh I think it was over a three-day weekend. It was it was so insightful. You have you had prototypes of Searzole, it wasn't quite out yet.
I still have my uh very original uh run, by the way. It's running great, still on the original screen. But I just want to remind you of something that happened I thought was so funny. There was a woman from the health department there, and you had all these different sous vide eggs at like half a centigrade different uh temperatures going up to show us the difference of how the yolks set. But then you also said, you know, over time you kill the bacteria and prevent the uh the food uh foodborne illnesses.
But she she kept sticking her thermometer and being like, it's not 80 degrees Celsius, so therefore it's and you're like, but it's been in the bath for an hour and a half, and that kills off, and she just kept poking. And you're like, it's physically impossible for it to be 80 if we're sous-eating at 64 or 55 or whatever. And it was just really funny to watch that. Like, and everyone in the class became really annoyed with this woman whose thermometer was saying exactly the temperature of your poly science circulator. But it's very interesting to hear the flip side uh uh like the from the the the student guest perspective on that because when you're teaching those kinds of classes and Nastasia used to get real mad at me.
She's like, why don't you just uh family show I had to bleep myself. I was thinking I was thinking in Nastasia mode. She's uh she's like, why don't you just you know tell them to screw off? And I'm like, I can't. Was she a student or was she the health department?
Oh, she was a student, okay student. Well, the city, New York City was paying for her to go. Actually, no, she was not New York. She was somewhere someone else's health department. I don't remember exactly what, but she was a uh I forget what the name of it is, but like a a validator, like a process validator and health department person.
Yeah, and she just wasn't she wasn't bending her mind around what we were what we were dealing with. Um god, I remember that. But that you uh you weren't the the one where the last day of class I I was food poisoned, were you? That was the best class I ever taught because I was uh I I had been See this what I'm saying, like this is what people I think like this is this is where I think people need to be. There's there's things that you can say I don't feel good and not do.
And of course, if you're gonna get someone else sick, you should never do it, but you're not gonna get anyone else sick from food poisoning. So I taught a class and it was a low temp sous- vide class, and it was the day we used to people so the way we would do it is we would have depending somewhere between like 12 and 20 people in this uh sometimes more in this sous vide class is three day intensive. And so we needed to pump out like like we would have we're gonna do short ribs, we don't do one short rib. It would be like we would do like five tastings, five different tastings where we're testing a different variable of short rib, and you'd have like four or five on each plate, and we would have to put those out like this out of a tiny kitchen to everyone. So we deep fried everything.
And so, like, but they didn't have a deep fryer, so they were doing it on pots on the stove, so that the oil was getting hyper abused. So I was food poisoned, and I'm having to like teach, and all of this like overheated oil smell is like going in like at me while I'm food poisoned, and every like break or when as soon as I could get one of the other teachers, like Nils or Erve or whatever to talk, I would go into the other room and throw up in a trash can and like rinse my mouth out and come back out. It was the worst. But that's what I'm saying. That's dedication, people.
If you say you're gonna do something, you do it, you know? I'm with you. I'm with you. All right, that was a great tangent. I loved it.
Awesome. Yeah, that was it was awesome, man. And you gave out these amazing books with like oh, it was awesome. Anyway, thank you. I'm a I'm a huge fan for a long time.
Oh, thank you. Well that I you know, I have to say, like, that class, like, you know, it's a now the school's closed. I think that class was good. Uh, people I think found it useful because you can't the thing you can't do when you're cooking, right? Like when I mean cooking, I mean cooking professionally, or even at home, right?
Is you don't have the time to like run through all of the different iterations at the same time. No one does. And you know, and even in a cooking school, unless you're uh making a class for it, you don't have the time. So, like the fact of doing that, or uh the fact uh when you're writing a book, which Frankie, I hear people are pushing you to write a book. Are you actually writing a book?
This is so cliche to say, but the proposal has been in the hands of the powers that be for almost a year at this point, so you know, I remember the first time when the FCI wanted me to write a book, and I didn't want to write a book because Nathan Miravold and Chris Young and all those guys were writing their book, and so I didn't want to I didn't want to like dip my toes in that water. Yeah, so like they were like, you want to write a book, and then the person who I was writing the book book proposal, she's like, could tell by the polls, like, you don't want to write this book. Of course, what she didn't realize is I don't want to write any book. It took Maria Guarnicelli, my editor, to beat the hell out of me and just scare me into writing a book. You know, she literally, her eyeballs looking at you could make you do anything.
Stas, how how nerve-wracking was her look, her gaze. Yeah, she's the only person that has scared you. Yeah. Oh, by the way, uh, I need to send this to uh to Alex. I was going through, so when you write your book, hopefully your editor will do the same thing.
It was very nice. Maria sent me the very first copy of Liquid Intelligence, which became the bar copy at Booker and Dax, actually. I still have it. It's completely beaten up with like notes and the margins and everything. All the bartenders used it at BDX.
And she sent me a like she wrote on uh she didn't used to like to write in the book, so she put her business card with, here it is, it's beautiful, congratulations on it. I just found it the other day. It was still in the book. I didn't take a picture of that, put it out. All right, all right, all right.
Let's get to what we're going to do. You want wait, so should we answer some questions you said, Stas? Yes. Alright. Oh, before we answer questions, sorry, more tangents.
I hear you live close to one of the Leatherman caves, Frankie. One of the who? Wait, John made this up? Leatherman? Leatherman.
Frankie, you just moved to a place in in Westchester, right? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, so you don't know about the Leatherman? You moved on to the Leatherman loop and you don't know about the Leatherman? All right, when you're back, because you're you're filming, you want to talk about what you're filming now, or you don't want to talk about what you're filming.
So you can't. I mean, we're we're filming uh like a one-off uh branded struggle meals thing tomorrow. I'm in California right now. I'll be here while I got here yesterday and I'm leaving the day after tomorrow. Cool.
Uh and then I'm and then I'm back to unpacking bags. Yeah, so listen, so listen. So the Leatherman, every people like people who know me know that if it wasn't for the fact that I had a family, I would live the life of the Leatherman who walked a loop every, what was it, 32 days, Stuzz? 27, 32 days, something like this. He walked a loop, basically, from like uh Stamford around up to I think he made it this far south.
In New Haven, too, I think. Well, in New Haven, no, but well, in other words, like it's a loop, so you can start anywhere on the loop. I only went counterclockwise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was well okay, we'll start where near where you are.
Briarcliff is the cave, the famous Leatherman cave, I think, which is closest to where he died. Then he would go up, over near Pound Ridge, up, over the border, up all the way almost to Middletown, over to the Connecticut River, down through where I used to be in Chester, all the way down, over past Saybrooke, up through New Haven, and then I forget where he connected through. I thought maybe he made it through Stanford. Anyway, he just walked this loop. And he was clothed in uh clothing that he had sewn out of old discarded leather boots, hence the leather man.
And uh yeah, that was his whole life. And that's the way I would be living if it if I didn't have a family. So, so you know, there but for my family, I go. So you need to and interestingly, they're called Leatherman Caves, uh, because this is where he used to live. And then they're dotted.
Like there used to be one in Chester. There's but the there's a famous one in Briarcliff. They're not really caves. Do you know I don't know if you know this, if you just moved to the area, but there are no actual caves in this area. They're all just like rocks piled up against each other.
So you don't we don't have real caves. Well, I'll keep my eyes peeled. I'm uh they have a of the Leather Marathon. They they have a Leatherman run. How long is the Leatherman run take?
In March. I don't know. Like five days, what is an ultra-marath? Yeah. I'm not uh I don't know if you know this, Stas, but uh I don't really have the body of an ultra marathoner or the desire.
My knees would be like, what? You want to do what? I don't know. Um Frankie, you an ultra-marathoner? I I ran the New York City Marathon a few years ago.
Yeah? Just to say you could or no? Uh because I used to be like an endurance cyclist, and I just thought, let me give this a try. Um I took Advil right before the 59th Street Bridge. That really helped.
Yeah? Yeah. And then I was sick for like two weeks. It's definitely not good for the body. No, I mean, it's good if that's what you're good at.
I mean, there's some people who they could just run all the time. It doesn't matter. Like they're they're they weigh they weigh like one half of one pound, like their joints are used to it, like you know. It's just like, you know, it's for them, it's walking. Anyway, wait, Nastat, I I can't see.
Oh, that I don't know, I know the circuit, but I'm asking how long the people do they people run the whole thing? No, it's a shortened one. Weak. Yeah. We need that, we need that emoji.
Weak, yes. I was just gonna say I was a little behind there. I mean, here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you're the leather, if you're doing the leather man, do the leather man.
Don't be like, I'm walking like it's like it's like, I don't know. Uh it's just intensely weak. Like, like you gotta commit. Either Leatherman or not Leatherman. All right.
Yeah. Uh all right. So Adam Sousa, okay. Adam Sousa wrote in from Portland, Maine, trying to acquire a roto vap from my cocktail bar and was wondering if you had any recommendations as far as brand size, etc. I'm pretty new to the roto vap world and I'm a little overwhelmed.
I appreciate any help you can offer. Cheers, Adam Sousa. All right, real talk, Adam. Uh if you're the owner of the bar, then like the the problem with it is this the maximum amount of product you're gonna get out of a rotov is about a liter an hour. I just want you to think about that for a minute.
You're gonna get a liter an hour. It's gonna cost you, I I haven't used any of the inexpensive new ones. So if someone wants to send us a new, like super cheap roto vap, the only roto vaps that I've used are either the ones I've built myself, which I wouldn't recommend using, or the really expensive ones, the cheaper ones that I have used that are made by like IKA or Ica, I would not wish those on my worst enemy. We flew once to uh England. Remember this, Nastasia?
We flew to England, first class, by the way. Uh they flew or business, business. They flew us business to uh do a roto rotary evapory dem uh a rotary evaporator demonstration. And when we showed up, even though they had spent untold zillions of dollars setting this whole thing up, they had purchased a what to me was a crappy budget uh roto vap because are you ready for it? It was blue.
Literally, they bought it because it was blue and it was therefore on brand, and it was the worst rotor vap I've ever used in my life. Because Ica, IKA. Because if if if it doesn't seal, you know, then you have to throw it away. It didn't seal properly. That was the issue.
So you it's very hard. If you want to have it just to have it, and you want to use it, like bars who put it into their programs, they need to budget a lot of money and staff time towards running it, or else like have people that want to run it for free or or whatever. Another thing you can do is use products that don't take very much time to make, but it's a it's a big time commitment, not to mention illegal, doing uh alcohol-based distillations and water-based distillations ain't worse bit. Uh, well, I'm not saying that. I mean, I am saying that.
I'm being unfair. Uh, but you also need a really good chiller. So um, I mean, maybe I should start looking into it again. I think a lot of people have come out with uh less expensive roadovaps. If I was gonna do it now and you didn't want to have it be totally have someone looking at it all the time, I would, and you had it.
I mean, maybe you're rich. Let's just assume you're extremely rich. Then uh get the ones that have auto distillation based on temperature differential with an anti-foaming thing, and then all of a sudden, roto vaping's a lot easier, but of course your pocketbook's a lot lighter. All right, is that enough on rotovap people? Are we good?
Yes. We good? Yes. We good? All right, one more, and then we're gonna get into what we got Frankie here for.
Uh, maybe two more. Martin Schwab wrote in, and I have something to say about this. Uh, low temp steak, pan fry, then oven or inverse, what's better and why? Greetings from Vienna, Austria. Uh love, good work, keep it up.
Love Vienna. Do you know the next trip I take to Europe? I'm thinking I want to fly into Vienna and then maybe do the Eastern European thing. Because Vienna's so awesome. I mean, I think we can all agree Vienna's awesome.
But I've never been to the U.S. Dave. This question was exactly something that you touched on in the low-temps sous-ide class, because you did sear before, then low temp, don't sear low temp and sear after, and you did before and after. That's right. We did them all.
And I think that's the answer. I like how you say though, before and after. There's no such thing as inverse. I don't know. I mean, I know where it started, but like, like, who wrote that there was a way to do it such that because since before anyone here was born, some people have put their roasts into the oven on high and then lowered it and ridden them out, and some people have put their oven their roast in the oven on low and then cranked it at the end.
Since time. Since for free king ever. This is how people have chosen one way or the other. It's a before or an after. Now it is true that in a restaurant, when you do a steak, it was always high freaking, high freaking heat, and then you throw it in that oven to ride out until it's done.
We all know this, except for the fact that really what happens is this. You you sear off a boat ton of those suckers before service, and then just have them festering on a rack somewhere where it stays mildly warm for a while until it's time to throw it in the oven to bring it up to temp. We all know that's how it happens. Am I right, John? Am I right?
Yes. Yeah, that's how it works, unless you're a steakhouse. Unless you're a steakhouse. Um, anyways, um, so let's just talk about not let's not talk about this as inverse or not inverse. Let's talk about before or after.
And the issue is this. If you sear beforehand and after, it will be the best. Right? Assuming that what you want to do is have the post-sear time be as short as possible. Because you'll be able to build an equivalent crust much faster if you have already seared it once before you try to sear it again.
Does that make sense? Now, you could sear it for a boat ton longer at the end and get the same effect, but then you're in danger of overcooking. Since I'm a lazy person now, I typically do after only, but I now, as opposed to Frankie, you might be interested in this, as opposed to the way I used to do it, I now drop the temperatures of my steaks and ride them at a low temperature. I take everything down to 50 for the last 45 minutes, and then I sear from 50. So I can stand a longer sear on a thicker steak now without uh taking it over, and so it's not as important that I do the pre.
Does that make sense? Yes. That's like a really really interesting way of like sort of getting the benefits of cryo frying without having that equipment and eliminating the gray ring, it seems. Well, yeah, so we've done tests on the cryo frying, and it would like you like you're lowering the temperature at the end, so that yeah, yeah, yeah. And all the way through.
And what it does is also like honestly, so you need you want to cook the stuff up. Here's the thing with with proteins, right? So, like with the meat proteins, it's true that most of the what happens to the texture happens fairly quickly, right? But if you if you take uh a ribeye, let's say up to uh you know, what let's say, let's say you're a 55 per Celsius, so you take it up to 55. I like it to just touch 55, and then I like to drop it to 52 and ride, and it'll tenderize at 52, but it's not gonna get that little bit tougher, you know what I mean?
It'll look like a 55, so people won't be squeamish, and it will um in in it and it's and it won't be squidgy like like a 52 like like a like a blue, because like a lot of people like blues. You know who likes blues? Cesare. Cesare Casello loves a blue steak. He loves to kick he loves to walk up, stab his uh, you know, his uh Keanina cows in the throat.
Yeah, sticks the knife right in the can in his throat, bleeds that sucker out, and then likes to throw that sucker on. He's like he's he's more of a ch sh eat guy. Am I right, Stas? Ch eat. I think most of us don't like that squidgy raw meat action.
He doesn't do that to restaurant people, but like to for friends, when he's cooking for friends. You know what I'm saying? So anyway, so 55 and then drop down to 52 and let it ride, and then 50, then sear. I think that's the best way to do. Austria.
Austria people, let me ask you this. Frankie, what do you think? John also, Nastasi's not gonna care, although I'd like to hear her opinion as well. I think there is great honor in traditional bread crumbed schnitzels. They don't need to be panko, not everything needs that crunchy panko nonsense.
You can have a traditional Austrian schnitzel. Am I right? Yeah. Right. See, Nastasi agrees.
Thank God, thank you, Stas. Like, all I'm saying is is that not everything needs to be hyper crunchy, people. Let people let things be what they're gonna say. I prefer Schnitzel without that crunch, because it's schnitzel. Cause it's schnitzel.
Cause it's freaking schnitzel. I did not know you were gonna be on board. I appreciate it. Hey, we're gonna have Sears all back in stock in a little bit. Are we allowed to talk about this?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's up to you. You're the you're the person who gets to decide whether I'm allowed to talk about it. I like how Nastasi's like, I think you could talk about it. They're being airshipped via China and we will be selling them through another company.
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. So, so, okay. So, Amazon.com is still. Please stop sending us emails. I know we said this before, but please stop sending us emails about how, you know, I don't know.
If you have a lawyer that you know that works there, that's helpful. But uh anything other than that. If you work at Amazon and you personally are good friends with the algorithm that is saying that we're selling a menstrual cup, if if if then, you know, if that algorithm is your close personal friend and you can call that algorithm and be like, yo, will you just call this a break? Please, we want to hear from you. If you're an if you're an Amazon entrepreneur, please get in touch with Dave Arnold.
Exactly. Otherwise, I know your intentions are good, but it's not gonna be helpful. So what we're doing, we have a plan to finally get them back on Amazon, but that's like a four or five month problem, believe it or not. Uh we're just gonna sell these suckers on eBay. So the ones that are gonna be on eBay soon, and Nastasi's gonna announce it, they're gonna be delivered.
We're trying to get that fast and free. We're gonna try to keep it um we're we're we, you know, Nastasia has a new delivery mechanism set up for you, and they'll be available soon on the eBay. Uh, and you know, that's all we can say about that, right, Stas? Yes, that's all we can say about that. That's all we can say about that.
But soon, they are in the air right now, right? But we only have a limited quantity, so when you see them, grab them. Yeah, and then, you know, maybe in a month or two we'll have more newsletters and work who knows. We're gonna announce it on our newsletter first, so you guys should sign up for the newsletter through the link in uh the Instagram bios or you know, Booker and Dox.com. Uh it turns out though it is hard to it is hard to sustain a business when you haven't sold a single item since November.
It's difficult. Anyway. Is this all related to the people that didn't burn off the uh Searsol screen thing and then Amazon is that what this is about? Yeah. Yeah.
Yep. Ugh, what a what a disaster. Yeah. And we have not sold a single thing since November. Oh well thanks.
We haven't yes, we have not sold a single thing. Beginning of December. Yeah. And then of course the uh the fa the factory in China still hasn't given us a date on spinzall, so we're not selling that either. Literally have not sold a single thing.
Cocktail cubes are available. Hey, someone out there. Wait, so what did we agree on? Sear before and after? If you have the time, right?
Otherwise drop. Or otherwise drop the temperature. Yeah, drop the temperature and you can do a harder sear. Uh hey, someone out there, uh, why don't you make a fake safety complaint about the cocktail cube and then we can just really be completely you want to take us down totally? I mean, again, if we sold every single cocktail cube, our profit would not buy us lunch.
Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like have uh the tennis player, what's his name? Law lob one. A cocktail cube.
Oh my god, can you imagine? Throw that at somebody's throat. Oh my god, that'd be amazing. Oh my god. Uh geez Louise.
This episode is brought to you by Just Egg. You can't have plant-based breakfast without a plant-based egg. Just egg is now the fastest growing egg brand in the United States. Bring more plant-based consumers in your doors with easy-to-use just egg. You can get started with a free sample.
Just head to ju.stlash H R N. Made from plants, Just Egg is a better egg for you and for the planet. It's healthier with no cholesterol and less saturated fat. And it's more sustainable. Just egg uses less water and generates fewer carbon emissions.
Most importantly, it's delicious. For our listeners who operate a food service establishment, you can get a sample for free. Head to J U.st slash H R N. Just Egg makes a delicious plant-based addition to any menu. It's available as a liquid scramble.
Great for omelets, fratatas, stir fries, and French toast. There's also frozen pre-baked folded version that's ideal for filling breakfast sandwiches or topping salads. Chef Jose Andreas calls Just Egg mind-blowing, and Bonapet says, it's so good I feel guilty eating it. Put the fastest growing egg brand on your menu. Get a free sample of Just Egg for your restaurant at JU.st slash H R N.
This episode is brought to you by Tuktuk Box, a Southeast Asian woman-founded company with a mission to share Southeast Asian culture and experiences through food. They offer curated subscription boxes and products, partnering with vetted small business owners and local farmers from Southeast Asian communities. Their signature Southeast Snack Box is available in three funky levels. Perfect for all palettes. You can either purchase a one-time box or sign up for a monthly subscription.
TuktuckBox is sharing Southeast Asian stories at your doorstep. Get your first box at tuktuckbox.com. That's T-U-K T-U-K box.com. Hey, Frankie, unrelated question. Let's say I were to send you out to Shake Shack.
Let's say you were to order a bunch of Shake Shack stuff, and I asked you to not have secret sauce on one of the burgers, but the the the burgers, one of the burgers came back with sauce. Would it be appropriate for me to like break the entire kitchen and freak out or not appropriate? No, I just eat it anyway. Right, right. I'm making fun because I know that you were in a situation which I will not say what it was, but like you had someone lose their mind on you because there was sauce on the burger.
Is that not true? I'm not gonna say who it was, because that would be rude. But it's true, right? Uh you're not there for that one. I've had a lot of unreasonable things where I'm like, really?
I I don't know what's going on. What's the most unreasonable thing? If that didn't strike a core, what's the most unreasonable thing that someone has lost their mind on you about uh Oh, it was an entire day. I was catering for something, uh, like it was so freaking hot. This woman had an amazing kitchen, and she made me work in the garage because she didn't want her guests to see me.
There was no air conditioning in the garage. I like set up a bunch of induction burners and and circulators, and I had my cerez all and everything. And then she proceeded to take a bunch of mind-altering, I I'm assuming uh anxiety drugs or whatever. And she just became more and more unreasonable. And then she put her brother-in-law in the kitchen with me so that he could do his famous something.
I don't know what it was, chicken fingers or something. And now he's using up my burners, and I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. Ah, it was so infuriating. His uh famous uh Swanson's Hungry Man Chicken Fingers or whatever. Oh my god.
It was it was like, I was like, actually, I have to kick you out. I'm really sorry, man, but like inappropriate. Or go use the actual kitchen that I was planning on using that they, you know, dangled in front of me as what I would be using. Yeah, it feels like a brother-in-law could probably get away with being inside the house. Come on, guys.
That's what I'm saying. Instead, he's in the garage with me, like, geez. Here's a note to I I know that like there's gotta be a good chunk of people who listen to this who like to cook but aren't professional. If you hire a professional to come into your home, venue, whatever, right? It is not the time to show off your XYZ.
Right? It is not the time to show off your XYZ. What you need to do, because that person is nervous about pleasing you and doing a good job because it's their profession, and all they care about is trying to do a good job for you. Stay the hell out of their way. That just stay the hell out of their way.
That's all I'm gonna say about that. It's like I know that you're probably a great cook or bartender or whatever it is. You know what I mean? It's just you've hired someone to do that, you need to let them do that. You agree with me on this, Frankie?
Uh I'm uh you are dead on, and I and I know that you would be, and John would be, and anyone who has worked back of house or done any catering, uh, would agree with that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Here's another thing. I'm sure there's someone listening here and and knows what Frankie said was hot as hell, and he couldn't control the situation because the lady was high on drugs and was becoming unreasonable.
Now, this kind of stuff happens. If you're about to do your first catering thing, or you're changing your job or whatever. Planning an away game, i.e., cooking not in your own kitchen for the very first time. Oh boy, are you in for a treat? Uh and by that I mean your life is about to become a living hell.
Uh don't do don't cook stuff that is the stuff that you would cook if you're at home. Think bulletproof. I mean this. Think I think I know what you were referring to before, and this was again cooking in someone else's house. Yeah, yeah.
You know, I negotiated with this other woman, very, very wealthy. Like her husband ran uh, you know, uh one of these fun things with hedges. Yeah, um, and and she's negotiating giving me all this trouble about this, like I just want to hire someone to help me for 250 bucks to like run from the kitchen back and forth. And then she's like, and your fees too high because four of the people are they're just kids. Anyway, the four kids turned out to be six foot five teenagers that eat three times more than the average human.
Um everybody wants everything, you know, differently, and I uh and and more of it. And then the best was as these things are coming back because that she wants two degrees more on you know a steak or whatever, she she then goes, and can you refill our water glasses? They're all empty. And I'm like, That's what the 250 dollars was for. Like, I will I need that gumby emoji because it's weak, and I also need to be in six places at once.
Yeah, I find that like a lot of people don't appreciate the work that other people do. You know what I mean? Like they just don't, they don't get it. They don't get it. Uh, but here's some like for instance, uh, it's coming up on summertime.
You're gonna do an event somewhere. Don't do ice cream. Don't do it. Yeah. Uh like, like, I don't uh I don't care that you think you can do it because you know what's gonna happen?
Uh the freezer's gonna go down. I guarantee it. Freezer's gonna go down. Uh there'll be a wedding cake in the freezer and you can't use it. Something.
You will get hosed. Like, if you are counting on something happening, you get co like, don't like that thing that you like to cook that's only good when it's piping hot, don't make that thing. Don't make that thing. Make something that's gonna taste good uh when it's been sitting around because uh the people that maybe did or didn't get hired to uh serve the stuff out to run it, maybe didn't show up that day. Maybe they're high out of their mind.
Uh you know, maybe it's a teenager, maybe, maybe whatever. Don't do that. Think bulletproof. Think bulletproof. And prepping at home is the biggest one though, Dave, doing equipment that you know, being 90% done, so you can just kind of finish things off.
If anything, you just have to deal with the person who's paying you so much less, and that in itself is a win, right? Yeah, right. Here's another thing. Uh, equipment you know, also don't assume. In fact, assume the opposite.
You will maybe get a plug. You will not get necessarily two 15 amp circuits that are separated from each other. Never assume you were gonna get two 15 amp circuits. Plan your whole life around if you need to bring picnic burners. If you whatever you need to do, just don't plan on, even if they swear on a stack of Bibles that you will have the circuits that you need.
Don't trust it. You won't. We say, you say? You won't. You won't.
And I've totally done that. Two induction burners that keep shorting the other one out. Yeah, it's infuriating. Oh, yeah. It's funny when it happens to somebody else at a demo.
I've seen that happen many times. I was at a very famous chef's uh place and they were running a bunch of stuff and they were running them off the same sockets and they were kept on blowing out, and I'm like, I was like so happy. I was like secretly so stoked. You know what I mean? Um hey, here's the thing that nobody does.
In fact, my wife won't let me do it because she's an architect, right? But if I could do live my life, speaking of like setting up kitchens, like I would color code my I would color code my sockets so that I knew what circuit they were on, or put the circuit number on the socket plate. So, like I on my so this if you're outfitting a kitchen, I said this a million times, but if you're outfitting a kitchen in a new place, or if you own the place, right? So if your typical counter is like, I don't know, four four feet long or whatever, and if you if you're gonna have three flat five feet, whatever, if you're gonna have three sockets, three quads, three different circuits. Now, one of them can be the same circuit that the lights on, like one of them can be the same circuit that something else is on, have one that's not for the really high power stuff, and this way you're never worried about it.
Like, you know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? It's you know, people people skip that step, they get all the gear and they want to run it all at once, and uh Mr. Circuit Breaker is like uh uh. And this is super important.
It's the step before the step of buying all the gear that we geek over. Yeah. Using it. Yeah, yeah. True story.
Uh okay. So let's talk about uh outfitting outfitting a kitchen. What do you what do you what's what is your what are your basics, Frankie? What do you what are your basics? Yeah, so listen, obviously, it all depends on how much money someone's got, uh, how much they're willing to spend.
I would say in general, with the exception of like maybe wooden utensils and Teflon pans, everything's pretty much gonna outlast you if you don't buy garbage. Um, I still like a wooden spoon. I wooden spoon is on my list here, but I would say for the other things, like those packets of uh six of the tools that you need where they've got like the sort of half-assed ladle and the tongs and then the spatula. I hate that stuff. They they seem so clumsy to me.
Yeah. Uh particularly the spatulas. Like you it's so hard to describe, but if you're in a cast iron pan which has, you know, kind of hide sides or something, one of those spatulas is just it's too fat to get under to really scrape the thing off the bottom. So I would say something like uh a fish spatula or a pallet knife, something that's just a lot more low profile and and more flexible is is actually gonna do a better job. Um so your first spatula is a fish spatula?
Is that weird? I don't know. It's actually the palette knife first. Um, okay, so like uh but here's the other thing is like I'm sure most people are thinking of spatulas being like the flexible spatula. You should never buy these things as you should buy them individually.
First of all, like if you buy a crappy like uh sil silicone or rubber spatula, it will be uh it will be dead. It will be dead within like five months. It will it will flex and crack where the handle is inside of the rubber, and then you'll get that irritating handle poking out and it'll start flopping around. It's terrible. Uh get a decent one of those.
In fact, I think uh I I would get one of those, right? Like a decent like silicone one that now, if you're looking at a spatula, it's got one straight side, and then it's got one kind of radius edge on the side, uh, a rubber, a silicone spatula. I don't you like the scopula ones. Do you like the scopula ones, right? I don't like the spuls.
I'm not a big fan of any multiple. Yeah, but no, but you know how some of those spatulas like have like a little they're a little bit cuppy. I don't like that. I like them to be symmetrical on both sides. You know what I'm saying?
Not not I like the one flat and the one radius, but I don't I don't like it to I don't like it to be like an oyster shell. I like it to be, yeah. Uh I have found by watching my kids and and then also adults that no one who no most people have not been trained to scrape out a bowl properly with a spatula. They leave like like a whole pancake's worth of pancake in in in their bowl. They don't know how to use a spatula.
So I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about spatulas for a pan. You're talking about a spot. We're talking about all of them. No, we're talking about all we're talking about. You gotta have a silicon one for one of those.
Absolutely. Yeah, totally. But uh I find that I have I have a nonstick because I was testing it, and I had to buy a spatula for that that's made of nylon, I detest it. I I would only use I only use steel whenever possible for those spatulas. And you're saying you'd go for a flexi one.
I use a long, I use a a long like pastry spatula, like a like not offset, flat, right? But long. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. For a lot of that. Uh, but I have to say, my go-to is probably just like an old school diner.
I have an old school diner spatula I I go for, and I also sometimes like a really stiff freaking one for like getting uh around the sides of like you know, Detroit pizza and stuff. But you could get away with. I think I wouldn't go for a hyper flexible if you're gonna get only one. And my problem with fish spatulas is is that they're rounded on both corners because they're worried that I don't know that you're gonna like stab your friend or stab your fish or something. Like I like a little I I like it can be flexible but I think I need I like a corner.
I don't like the hyper French rounded fish spatula just because it's doesn't have that corner. I don't know what do you think? I think I think what you're saying and I would agree with is that it it's so specific to the job that you're doing the tool that you're gonna use it's really no different than like Allen keys or whatever. You can't really make a five millimeter allen key work in a six hole. I guess you could wrap some tape around it and then it'll kind of work but it's also gonna totally stink.
So I I mean these are the these are the tools that we're using to create whatever the product is that we're making and the right one matters for the job and the the more you use them the more you you realize uh which is the right one. I'm a big fan of those stiff spatulas also 100% I also think and and correct me if I'm wrong here I think people overreact a little bit with the nonstick pan stuff and metal going to it. What do you think about that? Uh well I'll let you know um I mean I've never had one that hasn't gotten destroyed. Even with the rubber spatula right?
Yeah they always die I don't know that's my point. I don't know why. So like if it's disposable and has a lifespan anyway. Yeah that's a good point. I don't know.
Yeah but they don't have plastic coated utensils or the piece of metal they deteriorate more quickly. Here here he here's what I hate about the like if if someone finds a good nylon spatula for nonstick first of all like when you use them and then the the front gets that crinkle heat mark on it, detest, detest. And then uh the other thing I I uh I hate is a week. I have another uh I have a nylon one. So for those of you, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know how you're listening to this without ever having cooked, but let's say you've never cooked, right?
So what you're doing is you you do the spatula and then you you turn the spatula upside down, handle down, rest on the edge of the pan for a minute while you do something else and you go back. If you do that to those cheap nylon ones over hop, they start curling. They start curling. Ridiculous, absurd. Um, so we're talking about a spat.
Here's my another thing, by the way. Like spatulas are fortunately cheap, so it's not a giant outlay, right? Um, I'm not just saying this to say crap on online shopping, go to uh like an actual brick and mortar store, but uh you these are things that you're gonna use with your hands, okay. And uh you know, there's no reason why what I like is what you should like. You need to go try some of these things.
You know what I mean? You need to hold it in your hand, you know, like press on it, see whether you like the feel of it, you know, because like what you like might not be what I like, right? I'm I'm with you. And and from this uh this conversation, I would say probably the the outliers here of tools that people maybe haven't tried yet, are the super stiff spatula that's really good for like smash burgers and scraping things off of uh not a nonstick pan and and maybe also that um not offset uh palette knife. Go feel those in your hands.
Feel how when you push the the utilized part of it, it totally flexes and sits flat on the surface. And and then imagine scraping that sideways under something that's only slightly stuck to like a stainless steel pan. It's amazing. I love it. Yeah, well, especially for me, because I have a crate maker, like a crampoos, and so like I have one, I have a super long one that goes all the way across the crate maker.
So I'm just like, shoop! I can just put it underneath and like all the way through and just free the whole thing. It is it is kind of magic. Also, people, if you're cooking in your oven uh and you need to move like individual things around in your oven, like small things, like those long things can kind of reach in and they're just stiff enough to lift light stuff around. Anyways, um all right, knives.
Let's talk knives. People care about their knives. Yeah. What do you think? What's what would you buy first?
Well, you gotta get the chef's knife pairing, and weirdly, you have to have a bread knife. Those three. But here's the thing that I'm telling people lately with the chef's knife, tell me if you disagree or not. Uh the bolster, the bolster at the end that a lot of these knives ship with. Um, over time, as you're sharpening this, and if you want this to be a tool for life, I'm finding that a divot forms there, and therefore in the total sweet spot on the end of the blade is never coming in contact with the cutting board.
And for me, that's just like great. This knife is useless now. So I would say go for a bolsterless chef's knife. Okay. What do you think?
That that is a known problem, right? Which is why like a lot of the Japanese Western ones don't have that. Um they can be sharpened around with enough work, but without in other words, like if you just sharpen down and stop short, you're gonna put that little curve in and it's gonna like go like a butcher's, like if you have like an old school butcher's fillet knife where it just turns into like eventually turns into like you know, this tiny thing. Um this people. If you um if you're just starting out, old school, traditional like German French with the thick bolster, extremely comfortable on your fingers.
And if you buy your first Japanese uh well, they I'm sure they're made everywhere now, but what I think of is like. Oh yeah, yeah. But like old school, what would be right? Uh you're gonna you're gonna build up, which is not a bad thing, but it's it's you're gonna build up calluses. So if you like, if you get your new knife without a bolster, and the first thing you decide to do is break down a bunch of pumpkins, you're gonna feel it the next day.
Um as uh, you know, even if actually, if you do something like that, uh you know God's love we deliver? Yeah. So like uh the FCI, one of the fun things we used to do is is that the staff for Thanksgiving, uh, we would go and do prep in their in their kitchen, and all of their normal prep people are like going real slow, and they would bring in all the giant pumpkins from the bars and restaurants that had bought them, like giant pumpkins, and then they would turn them into soup, right? So they had to be cut, seeded, and peeled. And so all of the FCI people, we're sitting there trying to race each other through these giant pumpkins to see which one of us is gonna be the weakest, you know what I mean, in terms of like you know, how how how slow are you with that pumpkin you you you moron, you know what I mean?
And they handed us these like super crappy, like, you know, like Kmart style uh chef's knives to work with because you had to use their stuff, and man, even though like at the time I was in pretty good knife shape, I got some serious blisters on that. So if you're doing heavy work with a bolsterless knife, just make sure just know you're gonna be building up some calluses. That's all. That's all I'm saying. It's not bad, not good.
You're gonna build some calluses. Right? I I I've blistered through several times. Right. But do you remember the first time you ever used a bolsterless knife?
Like in a heavy in a heavy environment, like you feel it the next day. Oh, it it hurts. You like literally start becoming like geriatric. You're like, oh my goodness, I thought it was invincible, and I'm like totally whissing out because my yeah. It's like if you don't ride a bike for a year and you get on a bike, you're like, you remember how to ride it, but your butt tells you the next day that you haven't been.
You know what I mean? Yeah, that just happened to me recently too. Actually, probably while I was on search for the Leatherman's cave. See? And you're like, see, I'm a competitive cyclist, I can handle this, but your butt's like, nah, you have to keep the.
I still feel it right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so the other thing is that uh I would definitely suggest that you get a 50 50 sharpen or you sharpen it 50 50. None of these like asymmetric grinds.
Your knife is only as good as how sharp you keep it. And um, I'm gonna say this. Most 99% of you will misuse a steel. I would say don't even have one. Like 99% of people are gonna misuse that steel, use it as a an excuse for not sharpening.
I think um also like you can get one of those super uh expensive uh sharpening setups, but um if you do, you're rarely gonna use it because they take a long time to set up. I would take the time to learn how to use uh I use a DMT uh diamond stone because it doesn't require being soaked, it doesn't require being redressed, it lasts for years and years, and you know, I can touch up a knife in like a minute and a half, and I can get it sharp enough by eye that it's much better than the perfect sharp I could get that I will never do because I'm never gonna set up my crazy complicated sharpening system, which I also own. Right? So the the knives are only not as sharp, the the knives aren't as good as how sharp you could make them. They are as sharp as they happen to be.
And so like I would definitely get like one of the get the don't get a weenie one, get the big one, the big DMT, like fine, extra fine. It's a lot of money, and you think that it's not worth it at this point in your life, but I would early on get into sharpening. And you know, uh it takes a while to get decent at it. Don't worry about it, I think. Just like um what I wouldn't do, I hate I hate the double wheel sharpeners, they destroy your knives.
I'm just telling you right now, if you're gonna buy a cheap knife, you can get one of those double wheel sharpeners and it will quote unquote sharpen your knife while it's ruining it. You know what I mean? Uh that's that's my feeling on that. What are your feelings, eight or ten? Eight or ten what?
Inch. Oh, inch, sorry. Uh probably start with an eight just because it's a little bit more wieldy, you know. But if you're if you're comfortable with something bigger, then go for it. But I think a lot of it depends, it depends on the size of your hand and what you're used to.
Like for years I was on an eight, and then I picked up a 10, and it just felt like I had a lot more control over the 10 than over the eight, because I could pull those extra two inches when I'm slicing down, and it wasn't appreciably heavier. And so, like, you know, most of my close-in work is is is close to the back end of the knife anyway. So, you know, for me. I was just gonna say that the big knife doesn't mean that you're cutting with the tip, and it's like, no, if you little stuff that's fine work or whatever down by the heel, absolutely, and you don't even realize that you've got this big Pinocchio nose sticking out the other end. But I would agree with the extra two inches because you need to you need to do that pull to really get the the slice to to happen in a lot of situations.
Yeah, but I it's I think it's personal. Like some people like they I uh this is not like a better or worse. I think like you know, again, um you know you're gonna if you stay in it a long time, you maybe start with an eight. I frankly get in trouble. Like, I would start and maybe just because of the way I was raised, I would start with the traditional western shape, maybe the bolsterless if you if you like that.
Uh I don't know, like I don't know that I would start with a Santoku style, like by the way, that DMT sharpener, John, let me try that. Uh really really cool. And it's so fast, right? Yeah, and if you don't have a if you don't have a steel or you're suggesting not to have a steel, um, but you know, by the same token, if you're suggesting the person wouldn't have a steel because they're gonna misuse it, then wouldn't they probably also be misusing whatever their sharpening stone is, even though you can just touch up with that? Well, look, here's the here's the thing.
So, like I I guess I should like if you have a traditional steel, which is literally just a piece of steel, so what it's it with ridges on it, and it's realigning, it's realigning your edge. It's not it's not actually sharpening. I think the problem is is that when people start actually buying the abrasive steels and then they're actually sharpening on them, I just don't think it's a good way to sharpen. I think using a steel, but like if you've ever seen a butcher, like if they don't have they and they need them, right? Like they're using the back of their other knife as the steel, right?
You know, they're like shuck shack shack. You ever watch a butcher? Shock shaq shaq, they use the back of the one knife to steal the other knife because they don't have the time to go reach for something else. You know what I mean? Um, I mean, not always, but uh I think oh, so I see what you're saying.
So you don't need to have one because you could literally use the back of your bread knife instead. Like you've got a dual purpose item there, yeah. And I mean, I mean, I think most people are like rather aggressive, I think, when they're pushing on their steel. I think they think their steel is doing something that it's not. I think that most people think that it's sharpening the knife and it's not.
Right. Or until they hear that. And then there's two camps there for sure. But the the DMT thing is pretty amazing. And it doesn't like I I have a whetstone that's been wrapped in a rag for I don't know, a decade at this point, and that thing is just you know filthy with red brick color, and it makes such a mess, and uh it's a pain.
And I have to plan in advance a little bit just to soak the thing. Yeah, I hate that. I hate that. Now, are you gonna get like the perfect Japanese edge on no? But on the other hand, but that doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. And also there is a here's another secret.
Your knives should always be sharp-ish, right? But I do take a little extra care and touch them up if I know I'm gonna be doing something fancy or something that requires like super good cutting. I just do. You know what I mean? It's just just a chance.
That's pride. Yeah, yeah. All right, what about uh what about uh equipment to buy okay? Well, let's go about this. I think it's important to have stacking bowls and to not put different size things inside of each other because then you're never gonna use them.
I also think this stuff needs to be out because if it's away, you're never gonna use it. I I like having visual uh yeah, the ability to visually see things. Are you talking about different size bowls stacking inside of each other like the Russian dolls? I hate that. That's no good.
Yeah, I hate that too. I prefer the same size stuff. Um, same on same. Same on same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But like steel steel bowls, like you get a bunch of the small ones, you get a bunch of the medium ones, and maybe like I don't know, I've always been a fan of like two really big salad bowls. And again, like if you're in a small like hotel big, dude, I love them. Come on. Popcorn, French fries, they're so good. Like a salad bowl you could serve, like you could bathe a child in, like, like big ol' salad bowl.
Really, really big salad bowl. Like, there's nothing more frustrating to me when you're making a salad, you're putting it in that wooden serving bowl. It hasn't been dressed yet. It's to the top, and you have no room to get everything like homogeneously covered by the by the dressing. This is a good one.
You need a bigger space. Don't listen, listen, listen, listen. When so, like I have one, two, three, four, maybe five sizes of stainless bowl, and I have like six of each, and they stack the thin, cheap ones, right? The ones that sound like ping when you hit them. They're super cheap.
Yeah. Winkle. Winko brand. And uh, so like go for the bigger one. Always.
Why? Because you're gonna be tossing stuff, and what's more irritating than having stuff fly out of the bowl when you're tossing it around? Because you're not gonna serve it in that, are you? You like keep your service wear separate from your stainless cooking wear. There's separate ideas.
Yeah, yeah. Toss it down. I'm also a fan of like uh those serving spoons, you know, those like oversized spoons. I think that's really helpful for basting, for even you know, picking up a little steak in the pan and flipping it over. Again, just something a little more precise, and you can get in with your left hand and the spoon underneath, flip it over.
I think those are I think those are great. I love that. Wait, but which which which format? Like the the the thin, like semi-cupped ones that you can't really get soup with, but like they're good for like like pasta sauce. Which ones are you talking about?
No, there were different kinds. It's literally like if you took a standard spoon and enlarged it by 4x. Yeah. No, I I have like a couple like really thin punched ones that I like for for you know, punched out ones cooking. And you also need some slotted, you need a good decent spider for draining.
Uh if you're not gonna buy a colander, get a decent salad spinner that you can use the inside as a colander because that's how you should be washing all your veg. So a salad spinner sounds like something you shouldn't have, but on the other hand, like I don't know. But you need a colander anyway, so it might as well also hold water. What do you think about this? I think that's a really smart way of getting two in one.
The only thing I would say is uh, and I don't know the exact temperatures of this, but maybe you probably do. Um, if you're pouring like super hot pasta through a salad spinner's inner lining to separate the water from the pasta, is that too hot a temperature for that plastic? Well, that's a good question. I mean, I've been doing it forever. Uh I don't know how to still walk.
I'm still walking. So, like, you know, uh that's definitely the way I now listen, people, take the colander out of the salad spinner before you pour it. Otherwise, what what what's wrong with you? You know what I mean? Like, but using it as a colander, I think it it's it's a it's a good move.
This is why I think you buy a decent salad spinner, uh like a a large enough one. I only make salad for one half of a person, so I'm gonna buy a salad spinner that holds one leaf. No, no, no. Bigger's better. I mean, don't go crazy, but bigger's better.
And also, uh, I like stainless bowl salad spinners because uh they will crack other they will crack. If you get one that's uh plastic, it will crack sooner rather than later. And another thing about salad spinners, uh, don't leave the water in them and put the cover back on. They will turn into filth machines. Like you're gonna leave some swampy little piece of lettuce in there with the water with the cover on.
Filth machine. Filth. Yeah, gross. Uh disgusting. What about what about a great man?
Sargon in the chat wants to know why doesn't the spins all have a version with little holes in the rotor so that it can use it to spin salad. Why? I'll tell you why. Because we could barely china ants. Needs to be at least three times this big.
Uh listen, I've said this before and I said it again. Those of you out there who rated Zoolander 2 as not a good movie are idiots. Because if you liked Zoolander 1, it is basically the same. And people's reviews were like, um, well, it's like 10 years later, and it's the same, it's the same. If you liked it before, why wouldn't you like it now?
Right, right. Zoolander 2. Anyway, uh we got like five minutes, so you gotta uh pick your top hits. So we didn't we didn't do it simply because we we can barely get and right now can't get the factory to build the standard one, but I want to build a rotor for it that can be used for uh like centrifugal filtering. So, do I want to do that?
Yeah, let's see if I can get them to build a regular one first, right, Stas? Yes, because we can't get them to do you know, even do that. Alright, so equipment. What do you what are your thoughts for first first first piece of equipment you would buy? First one.
Listen, you gotta have some kind of a frying pan. I know everybody says just go get a cast iron skillet. I'm a fan of that. Um, I would say, like, if you just want to level that up slightly, I'm becoming a fan of the carbon steel pans because you still have that ability to just like heat the heck out of it, and yes, it's got a little bit less heat retention, but it's also lighter. Those those those cast iron pans are really freaking heavy, man.
And I like pan tossing, it's like a fun thing to do. So uh I'm I'm a fan of that, you know. I think the cast iron, like honestly, the best way to find a cast iron is go to a flea market or a thrift store and smoother. There's they're better, like get one that's like 50 years old. Like my favorite one is like I don't even know how old it is.
I mean, it I I've been using it for 25, 30 years now, and um, you know, it was really old when I bought it. So like uh, you know, I think that that's good. I I I like I I have to say, like the standard all clad style stainless, just because it's easy to clean, easy to deal with, they're not nonstick, but they do like a lot of the stuff. Get here's the thing. Uh don't about made in.
Have you tried that? No, I have not. I got to tell you. I hear they're good. I I bought a couple.
They're yeah, man, it's totally well so what's different? It's got some competition. What's different? I I think it's pretty much the same thing. It's just cheaper.
It's still made in the US. Right. Um, here's a mistake people make. Plastic handles. I don't like plastic handles.
I like that. That's a mistake. Yeah. I was just trying to fill in the words for you there. Uh yeah, no, like uh you buy a uh a pan and you think that by buying a bigger pan that you've somehow increased the size of your burner.
You have not. Yeah, true. Uh so people who people who have like it bitty burner, and then they put like a giant fry pan on it, or like, you know, like a like a like a like a giant, like a you know, brazing or big sawtooth thing, like not gonna work out for you. You can stick a giant stock pot on because what the hell, right? Get it, don't spend a lot, don't spend a lot of money right away on a stock pot.
Don't right? Just don't assume here's the if you need to do some good saute work in in your in your in your pot, right? Uh then uh do that in your in your nice frying pan and then deglaze the frying pan and then put it into your stock pot. But like like the th the thing that you boil pasta in, the thing that you do that, it as long as it holds water, it's good. And let me tell you another little secret.
Everyone worries about how conductive it is. Uh you know what conducts a lot better than uh your food? Any pan you have. Well, yeah, any pan you have is gonna be a better conductor. Is is it's it any pan you have is not gonna be the limiting rate of how fast you boil water.
Not covering it's gonna be the limiting rate. But like if you're having like those thin stainless steel pans, I sometimes I would stay away from uh the all-aluminum ones because they get real pitted and they can get nasty and they they dent, and then if you put it in your dishwasher, they get all those weird things and they can have your. No, they suck. I'm not a fan. Yeah, but like they you don't have to get it, like your big pot doesn't have to be expensive, it can be cheap.
Do you agree with me on this? I I a hundred percent agree with you on that. And also just most people have a four-burner stove. You put a giant stock pocket on it, and and now all of a sudden the other three have been encroached upon, and you're gonna be off-center with any other pan you use, which is incredibly annoying. Right, right.
Uh for oven, for inside your oven, I would just I would buy a bunch of uh uh I mean most people can can't, yeah, half sheets. Uh if your oven can fit a full sheet, get some full sheets. You you want more half sheets than you think. Um good for even prepping food out, right? Chopping a bunch of Brussels sprouts in half before you blanch them and then roast them.
I mean, it's just great to have it out there rather than on the counter. It's nice to have them laid all out and instead of a bowl and stuff like that. I I'm a big fan of them for all stages of cooking. Yeah, I would also, and like it if you've ever hung out with like pros who are neat, right? Get like uh get some quarters.
I have a bunch, I have some quarter pans, and you're like, why don't you eat a quarter pan? Trust me, get some quarters. I have quarters, and then I have even the size that's it's down from that. And I have quarter-size cooling racks, and I have a couple of halves. And so then what you're doing is that when you're when you instead of putting filth on your stove top next to where your pan is when you're working, you have your little quarter, which has your portions on it, and then it can even have a cooling rack in if it needs to drip.
If you're doing like a chicken or something like this, and you can go in and out very neatly. I'm also pro-tong, by the way. I'm pro-tong also, but I'm also a fan of uh I mean it's so annoying to say this, but I really think the little tweezers have some use. Not for pretentiously putting um, you know, microgreens on at the end, but for actually like trying individual pieces of things as they're cooking. Nothing is easier to grab a single spaghetto out of the pasta water while it's boiling than than a little tweezer.
It's hard with tongs. You know, you want to see where it's at cooking wise, or if you've got like some beets that are uh Brinoid, really small. I mean, you can go in with a spoon and take ten of them, or you can just grab one little one and see where it's done cooked wise. Are you gonna overcook it like the French? Are you gonna have that you know al dente thing of the Americans?
It all depends on how long it's in the pan. That means you've got to try it. And you don't want to eat all your product before it's done, so boom, tweezer. I don't know. I'll think about it.
Oh, not a fan. I I don't know, I'll think about it. I I'm not a disagree. It's just, you know, it's just not like, you know, it's just not where my life is. I I can I could try it and see what I think.
I'm not disagreeing yet because I don't have any uh I I do it is like doing the pasta dance though, where you take the spoon, which is why you should have a slide spoon, and you try to get that one thing out, and then you jiggle it around and you grab it and it's burning your hand and then you put it and you burn your lip. Oh, get a cake tester. Why? Why? I don't bake cakes.
Why should I have a cake tester? Because that's how everyone actually checks the temperature of meat. No one's actually taking a giant thermometer and shoving it through their piece of meat. You stick the cake tester. Really, you can use the tip of your pairing knife, right?
You can like honestly, you can use the tip of your pairing knife, but a cake tester is useful. And then you you test for the warmth against your bottom lip. Everyone know this trick? Do we all know this trick? Yeah.
Uh cake tester is a good thing to have. Yeah. Use the poster boy for it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Like uh the your lower lip is extremely sensitive to temperature. And so uh you can you can cake test, put the little cake tester in, and then pull it out and basically know whether you've heated the sucker through. And that's let's let's say this, Dave. If you're gonna get a cake tester to temp meat and put it against your lower lip, then you should also be in the camp of bolsterless knives. Because both of these things cause uh physical harm to you.
I guess. I don't know. But like I just think the cake tester is something people don't think of. All right, what's the first motorized thing? Do you first buy a cuisinart or do you first buy, and by the way, I don't care what brand of queen art you buy.
Right, right. Uh or or I only buy RoboCoo, I only buy the Breville brand food processor. Don't care. You all know what I'm talking about. Yep.
And by the way, you're not gonna use those attachments. Nine out of ten times, you're not gonna use any of those. Maybe you'll use a shredding thing. The shredder one's good for like making a nice roast tea. Yeah.
Yeah. All right. Maybe you'll use that, but you don't need any other things. You're gonna ask blender or uh cuisinar. Or blender, Cuisin art or or mi or stand mixer.
Oh, stand mixer's last on the list for sure with me. I mean, that's just like if you're baking a ton of cakes and things like that, uh I mean you could probably do it. I use my stand mixer the most. I use it the most. However, I could be doing a lot of that work in the Cuisin art if I wanted to.
So I'm I'm gonna go blender first because I I I make a lot of shakes. I like blending things up. I mean, but then when you get to things like pestos, it just makes more sense to have that wider base that the cuisinard has. But you can make a pesto in a blender, even with that that narrow uh you know thing at the bottom. You just have to add more liquid.
Cold water seems to work fine. In general, water makes everything go around and then it kind of evaporates off anyway. I mean, I would never give up my Vita Prep, but if they're expensive, and I would rather i i if it was between a cheap blender or a cuisinard, I'd go cuisin art. Yeah. I'd go cuisin art and a stick blender.
I go cuisin art and a stick. That's that's actually the right answer. This was a trick question. Yeah, the stick blender is pretty damn good. And then you get one for like 20 bucks.
Yeah, and then I would get a I mean, I like the thing about a KitchenAid is it's a good investment. Like you should all eventually at some point, even if you have no desire to get married so that someone will give you uh Kitchen Aid. And then um, you know, to whomever, whatever. Yeah, when then your Kitchen Aid, that you know, that'll that'll last you uh uh you know, whatever. My like my mom still has hers from the 70s, although she now has a newer one too.
Like, you know, you'll use one of those forever. Get the big get the bigger one. Even Nastasi likes a Kitchen Aid, right, Sas? Yes. Yeah.
Although most of the attachments, I don't use them. I have a lot of them. I don't use them because most of them are. Oh, the rollers? Yeah.
Yeah. You know why? Uh, because if you're gonna make pasta, uh, you know what you want? Both hands. Yeah, no kidding.
You don't you don't want one hand on a crank. And what do we get? It looks incredibly quaint. Oh, yeah, it does. It does.
You should all go look at at Julie Giuliano Buggiali's uh old books where he makes the pasta and the look on that man's face when he has the pasta coming out of the roller, like that's all you need. Like, if you and to know what a curmudgeon that guy was in the real life, and then like to see the joy he has on his face when that pasta's coming out of the thing, and he's got that, he's got that quick, you know how like so so. Imagine, if you will, here I am, uh my right hand's on the on the on the pasta crank, and then the left hand is guiding the cut pasta up. I don't know how he's guiding the uncut side yet, but he's guiding the pasta up, and then he just raises that shoulder slightly and then gives you the I didn't have one of those books. I I inherited it from my grandfather, Bujallian pasta, and it's got so many pretentious Italian things in there that I love.
You know, he's talking about like oil-based sauces and everything. And you should never put cheese on any oil-based sauce because one doesn't do that. Dude was really like that. The dude was crazy. Like he was uh he was uh I would ask him questions, I was like, you know, like really like very well respected New York chefs.
I was like, have you had this? Yes, do you like it? No, no, like a hundred percent of the time. He'd be like, no. And he's like, it's not not traditional.
But what's interesting about uh Buggiali, and and again, he just passed, I think a year ago, uh, or maybe two or three, I don't remember, it's recently, and uh, you know, he came of age in an era of complete food debasement in this country. Now, not in Florence, right? Where he's from, but complete debasement of food in in this country. And he was focused on uh tradition and authenticity, which is interesting because I think you know, the generation today, I think, understands that uh that authenticity itself is a myth. That like all of these foods are in constant flux.
And so to say that there is one tradition or one authentic thing, well, there's something that's authentic to the way my grandmother made it, right? But it's not necessarily but you know, she made it differently from probably her great grandmother. Very few recipes are actually passed unchanged for hundreds and hundreds of years. And he was a historian, so he did know the the history of it, but like I think we've all gone gotten past this concept of uh of the authentic X, Y, or Z. You know what I mean?
At least I I hope we have. I totally understand what you're trying to articulate. It is uh yeah, that's definitely yep. All right, wait, wait, John, before we go, did we have any questions specifically for Frankie? Because I didn't make it to the end of the we didn't talk about Novak, really.
It was difficult cooking for him. No, I know. But I will tell you something really interesting about him. All of the nuts, because he's totally vegan, all the nuts, uh, he he makes sure that they are soaked uh for at least 12 hours and then slightly dehydrated, with the idea being that part of the digestion, part of the breaking down of that nut is happening outside of the body, and therefore he's using less energy to break it down in his body, conserving more energy for the next match. So that's the kind of stuff we were dealing with.
I know. Whatever, man. He's a pro, he can do what he wants. He's so rich, you know, he's number one in the world. He can Tom Brady it, he can, you know, not eat eggplant or whatever the hell else Tom Brady doesn't do.
So this show is for Laughing Cow, who asked many, many moons ago. Any reason hey Dave, any resource you can point me to for cookware recommendations for starters. That's why we have Frankie on for the show. So Jenny Girl wanted to know when your cookbook's coming out. Your show is the best cooking show in a long, long time, Jenny Girl says to you.
Thank you. Frankie. That's very sweet. And then I'll leave this. Han H or Helga via Instagram asks, why are bagels so hard to make?
Where can I listen? Listen, Hannah, they're actually not that hard to make. I'll tell you a secret. I'll tell you a secret. Everyone worries about getting maltose, which is hard to get.
You don't actually need malt to make bagels. It's an extra. And uh the reason they use malt is what's called a reducing sugar. So you can either put malt into the recipe itself or you can put malt uh into the boiling water. Um, but it's kind of hard to get the one that you want.
You don't need to worry about it. Uh, you know what has reducing sugar? Honey has some reducing sugars in it because it's been inverted. So it's more reducing than sucrose. So you can substitute a little bit of honey if you want.
You just have it there, makes your life easy. I would also, if you're having trouble with your bagels browning, I would add about a percent of baking soda to your boiling water. Now, a lot of people are gonna say it's not traditional, but they can go suck it because what I'm telling you is that it's gonna make a better bagel. Uh cook uh when you boil your bagels and do boil your bagels. Boil your bagels for about 30 seconds on each side.
Um, don't crazy overproof them. And here's another secret everyone is jacked up on their high hydration breads. Bagels are not a high hydration bread. Keep it down to like 65% hydration, so six. So for every kilo of flour and use a decent kind of bready flour for it.
Although I make mine with whole wheat, like because that's what I do all the time, even though Nastasia hates the fact that I grind whole wheat. Uh, she hates it. It's the thing about me that she hates. Well, no, she hates many things about me, but that's one of the things she hates about me. Jeez, man.
The self-deprecating podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um about 65. So for every kilo of flour, use uh 650 grams of water. Uh you're, you know, people do let their bagel sit around a long time.
I don't know that it's gonna get that much extra stuff, especially if you're seating up the outside. So I wouldn't worry about over yeasting it. Uh make sure you have about 2.2% of salt. Uh and don't make them too dang big, right? So they're not the honey in the boiling water is big.
They do that in uh Montreal. That's I'm a fan of that too. How about maple syrup? Is that a good reduction sugar? Uh well, that's the thing.
So, like that's mostly sucrose. It hasn't been inverted. So if you can find stuff that's inverted, you could, but you really want something that's been either inverted. So I would just stick with honey. Um, especially because most of us have it.
Okay, that's it. Watch Dave's Instagram after this. He's erecting, he's doing a teepee erection. Uh, that sounds really bad, Nastasia. So Nastasia is deciding.
So Nastasia has had a teepee shipped to her Stanford Heidi Hole. And uh, so so check on, keep checking the coastline of Stanford to see on Google Maps to see whether or not you can find Nastasia's teepee. But the reason that we're doing this show here is because Nastasia has decided that for business purposes, it's best if John and I are here to help her erect her teepee, which again still sounds really gross. And she's gonna do a TP erect. I have a you keep saying teepee erection.
Well, that's what it is. That's the act of erecting a teepee. Can't you just say I'm gonna put up a teepee? There's no way around it. Whoa.
Can you combine you are aroused from bed. Oh geez, Louise. Okay. So we're gonna try to Instagram live it. Well, why are you talking to your microphone?
You're recording. Oh God. Pray for our backups, people. Pray for our backups. Frankie, thanks so much for coming on.
Find that Leatherman Cave. Cooking Issues. Cooking Issues is powered by Simplecast. Thanks for listening to Heritage Radio Network. Food radio supported by you.
For our freshest content, subscribe to our newsletter. Enter your email at the bottom of our website, Heritage Radio Network.org. Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can also find us at Facebook.com slash Heritage Radio Network. Heritage Radio Network is a nonprofit organization driving conversations to make the world a better, fairer, more delicious place.
And we couldn't do it without support from listeners like you. Want to be a part of the food world's most innovative community? Subscribe to the shows you like, tell your friends, and please join the HRM family by becoming a member. Just click on the beating heart at the top right of our homepage. Thanks for listening.
Whether you're a homeowner creating your dream space or a pro managing multiple projects, discover a new way to shop at Ferguson Home, where great ideas become stunning spaces. Visit FergusonHome.com to explore the best selection of bath, kitchen, and lighting products. Or book an appointment at one of our showrooms where you can experience products firsthand and get personalized expert support every step of the way. Bring your vision to Ferguson Home, where it all comes together. Shop top brands like La Cornew or find your local showroom at FergusonHome.com.
Timestamps may be off due to dynamic ad insertion.