Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from Newstand Studios, back in the actual newsstand again. Back change in studios from our Rockefeller Center here in whatever, I guess this area is called Rockefeller Center. That's the name in the neighborhood. Yeah.
It's not like you know Lower East Side. It's like we're in the place and it is the place. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh joined as usual with uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Okay. I appreciate this about you, Nastasi. First of all, uh call in your questions live if you're listening on Patreon to 917-410-1507.
917-410-1507. Uh, and if you don't know what uh the Patreon is and you want to call in live, just go to uh Patreon, what is it? What is it? Patreon.cooking issues dot net dot com dot slash doting issues and Patreon together. Hey, toss us a couple of books.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you toss us a couple of books and we give you some stuff, you know, you get early access, you can call in, etc. etc. Uh here's why I appreciate before I we talk any more. So, Rockefeller Center, a little bit of a wag of the finger.
You already have your Christmas garbage out. Your Christmas garbage. You've already started to put your Christmas garbage out. Christmas garbage should not go out before Thanksgiving. This is just how it works.
We had a pretty bad call with them this morning. Uh I mean, I'm happy to talk about that. We shouldn't, yeah, we should, because I really want to poll our people. But let me just let me ask you a question first. Uh not question, but tip of the hat to you.
So I wagged the finger at Rock Center, and Nastasia Lopez is the owner of the world's greatest Christmas hat. Christmas hat. Yeah. Nastasia Lopez owns the world's greatest Christmas hat, but for as low a quality individuals as the two of us are, for as for as kind of like rancid bottom of the uh of the grease trap, we can be at times. Nastasi does not pull out her hat early.
No, it'll come out after Thanksgiving. That's true. As it should. As it should. Uh in the boothie booth, we got, of course, Joe Hazen.
What's up, Joe? Hey, how are you guys doing? Doing all right. Doing okay. Uh we haven't had a show since Billy Joel, so we gotta talk about that.
Uh we got uh John. Uh he's at home because he didn't want to get us sick. People, this is a is a good idea. John is he doesn't have the he doesn't have the COVID, as they say. Not don't mean to call you out, but he's uh calling in because he didn't want to get other people sick, which I think is honorable, right?
Yep. Yeah, thank you. And not fun, I've been sick for about a week or something. Yeah, nice, awesome, terrible. Uh if you're gonna be sick, be sick for like, you know, a a week, right, Stas?
Yeah. I I don't know. I don't uh like I what's the longest you've ever been sick, Stuz? Three days. Because your body's like, that's it.
Yeah, I'd have it down to three days. Down at three days, yeah. Yeah. Uh it either it gets you or you get it. That's it.
Yeah. And uh we got Jackie Molecules. Where are you today, Jackie? Oaxaca fella center. How about uh are you really in Oaxaca?
I am in Oaxaca, yes. I'm in like uh a Oaxacan version of a we work, I guess. It's pretty bare bones. But they have we work in Oaxaca. He said a version of it.
Yeah, bare bones. I'm trying to imagine, but I'm trying to imagine something more depressing than being in a place as beautiful as Oaxaca and then being in a we work. Yeah. I'm in a room with no windows. It looks a little bit like a prison cell.
There's a big whiteboard. Wow. But the internet's fast. Oh, there you go. There you go.
That's like uh, you know, like uh when I used to at the French culinary, they would ship us around from city to city and uh to do demos. And uh they're like, Oh, how was fill in city? I was like, the basement of the Sheridan was great. You know what I mean? It's like you know, I don't know.
What a poll, poll, poll people. Poll well, okay. Okay, so describe the situ Oh. Well, okay, listen, let me ask you a question. I I have a uh a theory that uh we had a an unpleasant phone call today.
This is a hospitality related question. So this is actually in the purview of our of our show. Oh, before we get into it though, I'm gonna apologize to all all you guys. We had a technical issue beyond anyone's control. Speaking of Rock Center.
Uh technical uh beyond any of our control, correct Joe? Beyond our control. Yeah, beyond our control. That was and um so at the last minute we had to cancel last Friday's uh special taping with Sandor Cats. But good news, he's gonna be back on the show when, John?
January fourth. Cool. January fourth. Uh January fourth. Why does that name mean something?
Tuesday, regular timing. Oh, it's the 14th that's important. That's the both of my boys' birthday. Yeah, not the fourth, 15th. Yeah.
I like to have all my children on the same day so that I only have to remember one date. Makes it makes it easy. I can't remember anyone else's birthday. Like I know Nastasia's birthday is close to mine, but I don't know when it is. I remember my wife's birthday, my mom's, and that's pretty much it.
That's it. And my kids, because I put them on the same day. Yeah, right. Uh it's true. They were born on the same day, but it wasn't my wasn't my doing.
So he's gonna come back and also uh remember folks, next week on Tuesday, we're gonna do a show, but that is get all of your Thanksgiving questions to us early, right? I want all your Thanksgiving questions early. Hey, can we do uh oh but shoot is if you're not a Patreon person, you're not gonna hear it until uh Black Friday, right? Yeah. So is that this Friday?
No, this Friday is next Friday. No, no, no, next Friday, but next Friday. But if you're not on the Patreon, you don't get it till Friday. I don't know what we're gonna look at. Even more incentive.
That's more incentive. Yeah. Yeah. Join. So if you're not a Patreon person and you ask us a Thanksgiving question, you can tune in after you've already messed up your meal to figure out how you could have done it right.
You could have just spent five dollars. Or you could have just spent five bucks. Yeah. Anyway. All right, so back to back to where we're going.
So I have this theory that uh you can do any concept at a restaurant or bar as long as it's what's coherent, right? Yeah. Coherent. So what describe the situation would describe the poll. What do you what information do you want to get out of our out of our I mean, I don't know.
Uh I don't know. You look you it's it's mind-boggling to me. You you you yeah. Listen. I mean, but it's not a question.
It's like everybody knows that the feeling of the place and the feeling of the menu and the price point and the location, they have to mesh. Yeah. Let me ask you people, let me ask you a question. First of all, if you're going to Rockefeller Center, just I mean, for those of you that have never been to New York City, Rockefeller Center is like it's a tourist joint. It's it but it's a work joint and a tourist joint, right?
So you see any Christmas movie you've seen it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Right.
Yeah. I mean, unless it's Miracle on 34th Street, because that takes place on 34th Street. But like, you know, here around Christmas time, you know, on Fifth Avenue near here, you need a machete to cut through the crowds. It's crazy. You know what I mean?
Uh, but it pretty much no one's here late night. I'm just put it that way. It's not a late night kind of a place, right? Right, guys? Not yet.
Not yet. Not a late night kind of a place. Um, anywho. So the the question is, what kind of establishment do you expect if someone's gonna have a bar? Let's say someone's gonna open a karaoke bar in Rockefeller Center.
Let's just say, right, S? Yeah. Karaoke bar. For sake of argument. For sake of argument, Jack.
Just for sake of argument. Let's say we're gonna you're gonna open a karaoke bar. How much is a drink at that bar? In Rockefeller Center. Yeah.
What drink? A cocktail? I don't care, don't care. Water. How much how much is a beer?
How much how much is a corona with a rancid slice of brown cut last week lime shoved into the room? And this is a street level bar. So it's not like underground, you know. Street-ish. And then you have to go into the center.
And it's across from the skating rink. Should it be, or what are we expecting it to be? What do you expect it? When you walk in, how much do you think you're paying for that beer? Crappy Corona.
Or that cocktail. $8. $8 for the corona. Really? Okay.
Have you bought a pretzel in this neighborhood? How is that Madison Square Garden? Interesting, you should talk about that. You know how much a pretzel cost outside of Madison Square Garden? A pretzel?
A pretzel. People, if you've never been to New York City before and you're like, oh, New York pretzels. They suck. They are terrible. Like New York pretzels used to be good in the 70s, or at least my taste was worse.
Whatever. They are rancid, stale, doughy pieces of garbage that can only be saved by copious, copious quantities of mustard. They are always both stale and doughy at the same time. It's a miracle. If you asked me how can I make something both doughy and stale at the same time and wrinkly and crappy, I would be like, I don't know how to do it, dude.
I have to do some research to be able to make something this garbage. Sallow, underbaked, horrible, mon freaking strocities, and yet we have a reputation for them. I digress. Six bucks. That's how much one of those things costs.
Six bucks. And you're telling me how much is a beer. Okay. I mean, they were 15 bucks when we were there at MSV. Well, that was in the garden.
That's in the garden. Yes, that's true. And it was a it was a big cup of watered down urine beer. You know what I mean? But it was it was a large cup.
And by the way, Billy Joel sounds like an angel. An angel. The man's voice is so on point. He, I guess now that he doesn't drink anymore, he focuses all of his rage into sounding good. 72 years old, hit all the notes.
All of them. I'm glad he didn't strain his voice yelling at you, Joe. That would have sucked. Imagine if he couldn't do his job because he's straining his voice yelling at you, trying to free that bird from his fence, you know? Um the actual venue, kind of a kind of a nightmare.
Oh, so Nastasia's ticket that had the poo water on it. Yeah. Uh she got in. She got in. Yeah.
Nastasia gets Nastasia can, yeah. We were in line for a long time. And there was a danger we were gonna miss the opening song. But John made John made it up before us. Yeah.
Run out of the bathroom. Oh, yeah, that's a good example. By the way, people, if you don't want to deal with the situation, run to the bathroom. And here's another wag of the finger. Here's another wag of the finger.
Uh they scan your ticket once, and then they don't let you rescan in. So, like, I had like the lady was like, this tick was already skin. I was like, by you, lady, by you when you made me leave to go in line so I can hang out with Nastasi while we waited to see what she got. You skimmed. So okay, okay, go, go, go.
Go go in, go in, go in. People were a little bit on edge. Imagine all of Long Island showing up to Matt. Imagine the entire Long Island is has pent up energy for two years waiting for Billy Joel to come back to the guard. They've they they've it's all bottled up.
What did that guy behind us call the the ticket people? Carpet baggers. Which I don't even understand. I don't even care. What does that mean?
Carpet baggers are northern people who go to the South after the Civil War and try to take political uh uh positions away from Southerners, right? Now they're both snowbirds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what the relevance that has to the people who are. Well, then the other part is or a person perceived as an unscrupulous opportunist.
Oh. Guy behind us. Oh, you all you guys carpet bag, not you. He points to Nastasia, he's like, you guys You're okay. You're okay.
We're like, okay. All right then. Sounds like you guys went to a Knicks game. I mean, like, I was I thought I was gonna miss the opening because Nastasia was like, the dude's gonna go on at eight. He's gonna play his tunes and get off.
It was eight or nine, whatever it was. It was like one or two minutes after we're in the line. You know how, like, uh, what's that? What's that character that like uh runs real fast? You know how he just vibrates?
He just can just vibrate, he can like heat things up. I I was vibrating like uh what is it the flash? Yeah, we were glass. Hey, but if John got the opening, that's all that matters. It's it's it's it's always important.
Oh, for those of you that are gonna pay to go see Billy Joel in concert. Don't worry that you're staring at the back of his head because his piano rotates. So everyone stares at the back of his head for a little while. For a little while. Okay, enough Joel.
Back to the uh thing. So wait, so how much did you say for a beer, Jack? I said eight, but I mean I've been in Mexico for three months. I'm skewed. How much for a cocktail?
Joe, how much for a cocktail? Here. Oh, a cocktail here? I would say at least 18. What does it look like?
What does the cocktail look like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it in a plastic cup? Does it look like trash or does it look good? It's gonna be one of those like, you know, like it's those those fake pla it's the fake glass plastic, the kind of thing that we're next to the pool.
Yeah, yeah. You know, it might even have like a rock of uh excuse me, a like a uh a Radio City little stirring thing. Oh, you know plastic? You know, the lights up kind of so glass. Maybe a slice of orange, a slice of orange, no matter what cocktail you got.
And uh, and uh what what century was the orange sliced in? Like like last century? It's like a 19th century orange. Yeah. Uh so all right.
All right, but like what kind of ice is in that glass? Uh like I mean, definitely not good ice. Yeah, I know. It could be, I don't know. So it's eighteen dollars trash can ice served in glass stick with uh like with like a real sad slice of like orange where it's a little bit dark, so you're like, is that an orange or a lemon?
I can't tell because the color is so garbage. Like that? There you go. That's your where the seed is literally left in it, so you can still see the god dang seed and it's floating in the top of your drink. And that's 18 bucks.
Yep. And you're happy to pay that. You're happy to pay that. No. Well, whoever dragged you up here, you're unhappy with them.
Right. Uh I think you get our point. We're trying to figure out like we're trying to match price, expectation, and deliverables. No one wants to go. If you're go if you're going to a karaoke bar in Rock Center, my question is, do you care about the quality of the drink at all?
Or is it just tertiary? You're getting beers. Probably. Or like something bad, like a tequila soda, you know? Like whatever the well is like anything, anything but well, basically.
I mean, they could probably just even have the cocktails like in a uh like uh like a in this in a dispenser or even on a fountain. That's yeah, too complicated. And you know, you know, they're not gonna pay for that. Yeah, it turns out that those places that try to get good value by doing um because I've looked at concepts like that. I could do a really good one if if we someone had the money for it.
But in order to do really good cocktails uh on a tap system, you just need to invest in the tap system. So the tap system costs, but then after that your labor costs go down. Whatever. So so what I'm hearing is free pours, yeah. Uh what I think is it should be a fun, cool beer and shots thing where you can have good beer and shots.
You can have interesting, fun shots. Like, like I've never been to one, but apparently Texas has the best beer and shots places. Is this true? Anyone who's been to Texas? I don't know.
I mean, yeah, sure. They have good dives, good beer and shot spots. J in the Discord, by the way, we have a we have a Discord comment. Um, and he says the best karaoke bars are BYOB. Yeah, that is true.
That is true. But then you lose out on all the revenue and drinks. Yeah, I mean how the how the hell is it a bad business model, but I mean then you can just do it at your house. The best karaoke is in my garage. Go to Malchisco when my mom and my well, my they're always there now because of the COVID.
The COVID. Um anyway. Yeah. I mean, if you don't have a liquor license, you could do whatever you want. They won't know BYOB is not possible anymore here in New York.
Yeah, it is. What do you mean? When did they change that? I heard it's not when I talked to the if you don't have a liquor license, I'm allowed to bring whatever I want. If if you don't have a liquor license, I can bring whatever I want.
That's always been the rule. When did they change it? They changed it, yeah. After COVID. After COVID, they changed?
Yeah, because I asked about that because I was like, all right, well. You can't sell beer and let people bring beer. Right. Right. But I don't think.
Yeah, the FLA website says no, BYOB is generally not legal in New York State. Generally not. Generally. I want to know specifically. Okay, so you you open you open a bodega in front of the bar where you can buy your beer and then pretend you're bringing it in yourself.
That's how the cat joints work. Like they can't have cats that you pet and sell food. So they have to like have a separate area where the food is sold, and then if you bring the food into where the cat is, well, that's on you. That's your problem. You know what I mean?
All these weird rules. And it's like the same with the dog place. It's like you can't have the food delivered to where the dog is. You have to go. Like if that place like uh Boris and Horton where you you can bring your dog in, you go to a separate, like through a door to get the food, whatever.
Laws here are so we like arcane and dumb. When did they get rid of the BYO? John COVID. After COVID? I doesn't say, but yeah, that sounds about right.
Also, like leave it to New York. Generally. Yeah. What do you mean generally? They're like, if you are part of the mafia, it's okay.
Yeah, it's okay. All right. Tom Meadows. Uh hey cookies. A quick Discord question, very quick.
We want to encourage people to join the Discord, which is a live chat. He wants to know how you feel about nuts for nuts while we're on the subject. No, nuts for nuts. I mean I like the name, right? Nuts for nuts.
So for those of you that haven't been to New York, like we have these nut vendors called nuts for nuts that you go around the city and they serve you. You buy, like, you give them like a dollar or two. I haven't bought one in years, and they give you like like a nut sack. And in the nutsack, you can get you can get like they have peanuts, they have freaking. Do you like the coconut?
You like the nut-coated coconut? I can't stand the smell of nuts for nuts. I like I don't mind. You don't like caramelized sugar smaller smell. That specific smell.
Wait, so we have two, we have wait, John, you're against, and Jack and I are pro the smell. No, no, I'm I'm pro. Oh, you're pro smell. I enjoy the smell. Joe, where where are you on nuts for nuts?
I love them. Yeah. The person in Discord just wants me to say, D's nuts. But like, the fact of the matter is that I think they're fine. They the issue is sometimes they get burnt and sometimes they're a little over.
I really like the candy though. I grew up eating these things called um uh like boss Boston baked beans and then what the there's also like French burnt peanuts, I think is the other name of them, where they're like these like hard shell caramelized nuts. So I I'm a kind of a fan of that favor flavor, and I actually like the the coconut chunk sometimes. Anyone here a pro coconut chunk in the nuts for nuts? Yeah.
I'm into that. I think it's a little strange that that's all they freaking sell. It's like a weird thing to be like, because I'm not like a, you know, I'm um I'm a bit peckish. I would like a small sack of something. You know what I mean?
It's like it's never something where I'm like, that's really gonna do me. I just need a tiny sack of nuts to make it through the day. But they are rather filling with all the I mean, like it it studies show that if you if you don't go crazy and you just eat a small sack of nuts, that it can actually tide you over, but you have to give your body time to register the fact that you've eaten the nuts, right? So if you show up at somebody's cocktail party and you are bored out of your freaking skull, right, then you're gonna drink all the wine so that you don't have to open your mouth or talk to people just to have your mouth doing something. You're gonna eat all the nuts and all the cheese, then it's not like the nuts are gonna fill you up.
But if you're walking down the street and you just eat the little sack of nuts, you're like, oh, that was more filling than I thought. But I think my brain still hasn't my my heart still hasn't gotten to where my brain knows that that small sack of nuts is actually gonna tie me over. Does that make sense? Yep. That's good.
I'm feeling like nuts for nuts. But I think it is a it is a it is a a decent quality street food. New York City street food could be a lot better than it is. Our best thing is the halal carts. That's the high.
Stas is looking at me. I'm not gonna call anybody out. Let me ask you a question. You're about to go to a concert. You with me, Joe?
Yep. You're about to go to a concert and you stop by a halal cart, right? Now, for those of you that don't know, there's a wide range of things, but basically, you're either gonna get something that you can eat in your hand, right? Something that comes on a pita, or you're gonna get something that's in a tub. Right?
You with me so far? All right. So you're gonna get the same mix, whether it's lamb or chicken, uh, or or the mix. The mix is the answer, right? Everyone knows the mix is the answer.
It's always the mix, right? And you guys, and and they have two sauces. They have a white and a red. You gotta get both, I think. That's my opinion.
Anyone? Mm-hmm. Both. I'm just a white guy. I'm just a white guy?
Yep. I'm a both. I'm a both. I'm a both. Anyway.
You're rushing to make the show. You have a ticket that's covered in poop water. Yeah. Do you get the bucket or do you get the handhold on the bread? You also have how long of a walk to get to the ticket entrance?
Oh, well. We haven't said what do you get? You get the handhold or the bucket. Jack and Joe, what do you get? The handhold or the bucket?
The handhold. The handhold. But you can't get both. You can't get both. You don't get the bucket, man.
You don't get the bucket. You don't get the lamb over rice. Did I delay anyone getting in there with the five years? I'm just gonna say we almost missed that opening song. There would have been Oh please.
John, you had no worry. You were sitting up with the beer up in the uh nosebleeds. I was waiting in the house. I'm an old man. I needed to get my oxygen ready so that I could like be that high at that high altitude to watch Joel.
Anyway. Alright. Uh I think like I think everyone would pretty much agree that the best street food in New York at this point, the best commonly available street food is halal card. Like straight. You know what I mean?
It is, I mean, they are of varying qualities, but uh across the board, they serve a delicious product. And uh and if you have been at Nastasia's theoretical karaoke bar and you've had too much to drink of shots and beers, and your voice is a little hoarse because you you sang too much journey, right? Uh a halal cart is a good way to keep that. I call that a boat anchor, right? So a halal cart, and that's when you need the full bucket, John, although you're gonna peep it with it, is like late night, you need a boat anchor to like anchor all that stuff that you did to your stomach at the bar.
You know what I mean? And halal cart's great for that, I think. Yeah. Yep. Um, you know, we don't I don't know why like every city has their own street food that's good, like, and why when people try to bring it to other places it doesn't work.
People have tried doing crepes here, and it just never works. I don't know why. Is it because we don't care about crepes? Maybe. We don't give a crap.
Ah, I don't give a crepe. That's the name of our new place, guys. I don't give a creep. Crep. Uh wow.
Yeah, but uh, I mean, I love crepes. Crap. I love I love them. They're great. Um, if you go to like Jackson Heights, though, or Queens, then you get good street food from other places.
But you know what I'm saying? You're talking about like Manhattan street food. Right, but that's where the tourists are. Where the tourists are street food waits for me. But the point my point is that New York City spice is kind of a New York street food, even though it's not served in the street.
You eat it on the street, but they're mainly trash. They're only miraculous in their cheap price. Not the dollar pizza, not the dollar slices. Meaning, do you eat it in the store? No, no, no, no, no, no.
I just like don't qualify that as pizza. Oh, right. Right, but no, but that is a street food. Yeah, for sure. And the uh the average dollar slice is better than the average New York quote-unquote pretzel.
Yeah, uh, yes, I agree with you there. And also, no offense, we need to haven't done the hot dog off yet, but Sabrette needs to up its freaking game, dude. Sabrette is not a great hot dog. Sorry, their sauerkraut also, not a great crowd. You can get amazing crowd in this city.
Amazing crowd. I'm not a skinless wiener man myself. I mean, do any of you guys like uh a hot dog without a skin on it, or do you guys all pro-skin if you can get the skin? Pro skin. Pro skin.
Pro skin. Pro skin. Need to snap, yeah. Yeah, need to snap. Stas is just Stas is like, won't even, can't even I've done both.
Wow. I've done both. I don't know how to parse your answers, Dad. Get to some questions. Oh, geez, Louise.
Oh my god. I've done both. Equally repulsive. All right. Uh hey, what's the name of that place?
Wait, hold up before Yeah. No, no, no. Wait. Well, I just I thought you were getting into a question. Finish what you're saying, and then I'll say well, that's okay.
Uh, what was the name of that place where they uh they tried. Remember, there was the guy who quote unquote invented putting hot dogs in a bun and selling them as street food in Coney Island, and Nathan's work Nathan worked for him and started it was it Finnerman or something like that? Has anyone tried that hot dog? Oh and no, I haven't, but I know what you're talking about. Yeah, the brand went out of existence and then it's come back it that someone's bringing it back and they're trying to make like a really high quality New York City hot dog again.
No offense to the Subbreck Court. Whenever you say no offense, it means offense, right? Yes. Now get to questions, Steve. Well, John was gonna say something before we do the questions.
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Uh did you release the uh Fabulous and Jeremiah uh video yet? I did yep, but it left us there. Yeah. I mean, weirdos. Uh the you know, the problem with it is is that I mean, to be honest, like we uh because of the whole Amazon thing, which for listeners of the show, like, you know, they turned off the the money tap for, you know, better part of a year.
And so we didn't have the money to run the campaign the way that we should have, which is you order 50 of them, and then you send like a bunch of them to like well-known people and have them actually use it. So you kind of have to take our uh what's it called? Uh our word for it. Uh, but because we just don't have the units to ship out to people uh or the time. But if, you know, um, you know, unless something else happens, we won't be able to make it unless the Kickstarter Indiegogo is successful, which uh, you know, right now we're uh what's it called?
We're behind as usual rest us. Yep. Yup. Thanksgiving. Questions.
Uh all right, Tom Meadows. Uh I discovered the show last year. Didn't I do this one? Didn't I do this one already? I did this one, didn't I?
This is a new one. All right. I discovered the show last year and I've been listening uh religiously ever since, slowly working my way uh through the back catalog. Now I've got working my way back to you, babe, in my head. Go on.
With a burning love inside. Go on. The happiness, it's don't let it slip away, Stas. All right. This is what happens when we have this is what cuts into the time.
Go on. Oh, this is not talking about theoretical karaoke bars that that may or may not be opening. Uh hospitality. Let me ask you a question, people. For real.
For real. Under what scenario is it I'm being deadly serious here. Under what scenario is a wine Santa a responsible thing to have in a bar environment where you're serving people that aren't your family that you can't like you know what I mean? Like, is it possible to actually have the wine Santa be a responsible item? Ray said if it were tabletop, if it were bar top.
And then a karaoke bar. Well, it's not a matter of that. It's a matter of people getting viciously overserved. And not look. Well, it's a karaoke bar, it's gonna happen anyway.
I mean I I don't want to contribute to people's life being unpleasant. You know what I mean? I mean, any more than we already do by doing this program. Uh well, if it's bar top, you can see if they go to it. I mean, look, I think people would like the the issue with the wine santa is it's a continuous fountain.
It's like the clam broth. It's like it's like clam broth, but with wine. So it could be clam broth Santa. That is gross. Sober people up or something, something that sobers people up, you know?
Water Santa. But I think also there's like the hygiene perspective of like people dropping their cup in there, then they have to fish it out, or like they don't hold the cup properly, and you know, whatever liquid runs down their fingers and mentor goes into the ball and then gets into the system. So you're saying more of a party situation? Yeah. Where you have to treat people?
Yeah. Wait, are you were you about to say that you don't use a punch bowl at a at your friend's house party because you find them to be too filthy as people? No, I mean, I would do that with people I know, but I don't just like you know, a bar random bar in Rockefeller Center where I don't know anyone else there, I'd be a little more on my guard, I said I would guess, I guess. Oh my god, I can't believe that the COVID conversation. Post COVID, would people use a wine Santa post COVID?
Like that is like that's where we've gone in the in the discourse, is that like, you know, it's from the absurd to the absurd, more absurd. You know what I mean? Jumping from one absurdity to the next. All right. Slowly working my way through the back catalog.
We're back to Tom Meadow's question, by the way. In case you were trying to keep track. Uh I think I've got about 200 hours under my belt. Jesus, that's a lot of this. Um Thanks for all that edutainment.
It's been a real comfort during lockdowns and the pandemic. Uh I have a general question about food preservation and pH. I don't see uh as much discussion of food preservation using high pH, i.e., alkaline environments. I know that lie is used in the preparation of, as Nils used to say, Lut fisk. Lut fisk.
That's you know, I used to call it Ludafisk because it sounds more like ludicrous, and I enjoy thinking of the song Rollout whenever I think of Lutfisk, right? Rollout's a good tune. Anyway. Uh, but I can't think of uh many other cases where significantly alkaline rather than acidic environments are used. Ah, uh there are.
Uh why is this? Uh why isn't there an alkaline version of lactofermentation? Why don't we have alkaline versions of vinegar in our kitchens? I have a couple of guesses. One, I'm gonna read your guesses.
Uh acidic environments are easier to create slash encounter, or at least have been historically, thanks to the uh ubiquitous presence of lactic acid and acetic acid uh bacteria. Uh acetobacter is a good word, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Even nostasi is okay with acetobacter.
Uh highly alkaline, too. Highly alkaline environments slash products create tastes that we more likely to dislike. This is the thing, is though, is that uh whether you like or dislike something, and this is why like I was interested in having Sandor cats, uh so so you should before he comes on in January 4th, take a look at his new book. What's it called? Fermentation diaries, journeys.
I can't remember the exact name, John. You're making journeys. Fermentation journeys. So what it is is it it's like uh, you know, if you want like the the encyclopedia of how to ferment things, get the you know, the the you know, the the big one. This is more just like um places he's gone and things he's tried.
And in the very beginning of the book, he says, I'm not here to crap on anyone's uh kind of flavors or tastes. And I was like, well, there goes half my questions. There goes half my questions. What do you hate? But a lot of I think it bridges down is to that we like what we like because we've had it, and anything that is edible can be something that we crave if you grew up eating it, right?
Uh so I don't think that we're I don't think it's valid to say that um we don't eat as many alkaline things because we don't like them. I think it would be easier to say we don't like the taste of many alkaline things because we don't eat a lot of them. Does that make sense? The difference. Uh anyway, um any thoughts or risks would be appreciated.
And for your demographic information, Nastasi, if you're still keeping it, uh he's a 25-year-old male. Uh and uh his boyfriend approves cooking as a hobby, and he's a linguist PhD student with uh interest in food. Um, so uh to the alkaline foods. So in terms of preservation, alkaline preservation, the I mean, there are not a lot of bacteria that create extremely alkaline environments as a byproduct of their being alive, right? So you do you do have a point there.
But uh classic alkaline preservation besides things like loot fisk are like century eggs, pedan in uh in like uh Asian cultures and also certain alkaline preserved kind of uh uh pickles and and vegetable, mainly i Asian, mainly in Asia. And then the other one mainly in Scandinavia. I'm not aware, are you guys aware of any other alkaline, um alkaline uh preservation in other cultures other than those two? No. No.
But uh there's a lot of use of alkaline. So for instance, the alkaline flavors that we all enjoy are tortilla chips, right? So nickstamalization is uh an alkaline cooking environment, and without that alkalinity, we don't really enjoy uh the taste. And then to go back to kind of a European boiling in alkali, like um uh what's it called? Uh boiling uh pretzels, right?
Like that is a a flavor that we all kind of appreciate, but uh if it gets too much, we think of it as being, you know, somewhat soapy, right? Um I don't know. Did I answer the answer the question or no? I mean also look remember uh alkali environments tend to break down proteins, so it's not just a flavor that gets weird, but things get kind of uh soapy, right? Because uh fats will kind of can start saponifying in alkali environments and the proteins get extremely weak.
So like loot fisk is almost like jelly-like, you know what I mean? Because it's it's gone undergone uh a highly alkaline uh environment. Uh that that a good good answer or not a good answer? Yeah. Yeah.
All right. Uh all right. From uh Miguel Cuntz uh a few months ago uh I started a batch of uh Nochino with high proof brandy that was uh unsweetened right okay uh by the way Nochino is like you is like the walnut liqueur but you gotta make it with the green with the green walnuts right uh and I don't know it doesn't say where where Miguel is from but uh we have a different kind of typically I mean we grow European walnut trees here English walnut trees what kind of walnuts do they have in France are they the same as the English walnuts John I don't know down there in uh Grenoble as we would say uh I mean that's where that that's where that famous uh the green walnut preserves are from right down there anyway uh but American uh black walnuts are different from English walnuts right but presumably they could both be used for for nochino so you silk the the the green ones the immature ones which are worthless as nuts uh but be aware that any and I've never worked with European nuts off off the tree before but uh the green the green kind of uh outside of a green walnut as soon as you bruise it it stains the hell out of you. It stains. That's why nochino's black ish right?
Or you know, yellowish. In fact, uh, so you have i i in America, you have walnuts, all right. These are all, by the way, Juglandesi trees, right? So here are the relatives. You have you have your your your walnuts, you have your butternuts, right?
So a butternut is a close relative to a walnut. It's a little bit so butternut uh the shells of the outer rind of butternut the green was what provided the color for butternut the fabric. So like the Confederate soldiers weren't like they used as their main dye stuff butternut. So if you hear like butternut uh butternut fabric that is from this like close relative to the walnut slightly different leaves you can get them there people don't raise as many of them as it's not as well known as the walnut tree then the hickories are a close relative as are the pecans. So they're all closely related trees but uh the hickory the hickories don't have as much staining because they they they don't bruise and stain the same way that the walnuts and the and the butternuts will so it'll stain the ever loving snot out of you and the stain is not going to come out of your hand.
It's like not gonna come out of your hand. You gotta wait for your skin to wipe off for that stain to come out of your hand. Having made things with green walnuts and having tried to shell walnuts wear gloves. Wear gloves people wear gloves um but these are the tiny ones of green and you soak them in a high proof liquor. But that wasn't the question.
Let's get to the actual question now it is ready to be sweetened and I'm reading that alcohol is actually a poor solvent for sugar. What's your favorite way to sweeten alcohol and not dilute it too much. Well, it is true that alcohol, I mean, you you didn't give me the uh, Miguel, you didn't give me the proof of the brandy, but you know, unless it's absurdly high, right? It it is true that sugar is uh not uh as soluble in ethanol water mixtures as it is in water, right? And it's has a very, very, very low solubility in pure ethanol, right?
Having any water in there at all increases your solubility quite a bit. And I will also say that if you're looking up uh tables for how much uh, you know, what the solubility is, right? Uh most tables for solubility given the scientific literature are given in weight fractions of uh liquor. And weight fractions of liquor are very different from volume fractions. So just to give you an idea, something that is 40% alcohol uh by volume is only about 34 or 35% alcohol by weight, right?
And think about uh as your benchmark, take green chartreuse, right, as something that is high in alcohol, it's 55% uh alcohol by volume, right, which is about 49% uh or you know, about 50 50%, 49% alcohol by weight, right? And even at that point, regular sucrose, because green chartreuse is is sweetened with sucrose, I believe with with beet sugar, it's yellow sarcheuses to sweeten with honey, right? Even there, they're getting probably in the area of 250 grams per liter of finished product of sugar in there, which is quite sweet. So unless you want to sweeten it more than that, or unless your alcohol content is in excess of what green chartreuse would be at 55% alcohol, I don't think you're gonna have a problem. It's just gonna take a long time to dissolve, right?
And you might want to put it into a bottle, cap it, and then like s like warm it a little bit up to body temperature to help it speed up. It could take a long time, but it it'll get in. Now, if you like the flavor of something like honey, uh, you know, honey requires very little water to uh solvate to you know to to become not a crystal because as you probably know, it's already 82% sugar by weight and is still almost a liquid. So you could use honey as well, but I think you're gonna be able to use plain old uh sucrose. The in the old days, they would use a two to one sugar uh mix, right?
Uh and do it that way just because it's easier for them to deal with when you're compounding. But if you're only making batches for yourself at home, you don't need to worry about it. What I would do if you want to know what the final ABV is, is I would, if you know the ABV going in, right, is I would take a very accurate volumetric measurement of what you've done and then add the sugar, wait for it to dissolve. It could take days for it to fully dissolve, but wait for it to dissolve, and then take another volume measurement and then recalculate your ABV. Does that make sense?
Yep. And by the way, the reason alcohol by weight to alcohol by volume uh calculations are so complicated, and you can't trust the internet on this. You cannot trust the internet. On the internet, uh people will tell you, well, you just you just multiply uh you multiply by by 1.25 or some stupid thing like this because, right? Uh, or 1.8 or whatever because because alcohol, the density of pure alcohol is roughly like 0.79, the density of water is one.
And they doesn't work for spirits. It works for beer because beer is a very low alcohol content. But the more there's a there's what's called uh I don't know how I forget the technical term for it, but when you mix water and alcohol, if you if you mix a liter of alcohol and a liter of water, you don't get two liters of product. You get less than that. There's a there's a volume contraction uh happening because of the way that the alcohol and the water molecules pack together.
And so you can't just use straight density of the products on their own to figure out the difference between alcohol by volume and alcohol by uh weight. It's a very it's a complicated formula and it's not even a real formula. It's one of these empirical things where someone just measured it and then you know did a curve fit to it. If you're interested in uh the tables, I would look, it's available on the internet. It's also a good read uh good read.
That's putting it a little too far. Uh it's called A Treatise on the Manufacture and Distillation of Alcoholic Liqueurs by Pierre Duplay and uh Marcellus McKenney, 1871. It's available on the Google Books. In the back of it are a series, an exhaustive series of tables uh of uh alcohol by weight versus alcohol by by temperature, how how much water to add to a particular ABV to get a particular result. But even more important for what you're doing, somewhere in the you know, around page 400 or you know, 450 starts talking about making liqueurs and compounding them and how to compound them or at least how they were done in 1871.
Now, I would not trust the knockoff recipes. I have tried a bunch of knockoff recipes from the 1800s for people trying to knock off uh other people's recipes, and by and large, they don't taste like the original. So if you like uh there was a time you remember Stas years ago when we were trying to make fake mineral waters? Mm-hmm. And we were following uh Darcy O'Neill's fake mineral water recipes from the eighteen hundreds because that's what people used to do.
Yep. And so we're like, oh uh by the way what do you have a do you what's your favorite do you what's your favorite mineral water says none really none? Mm-hmm. Anyone here have a favorite mineral water? No?
I mean minerally what did I like but I can't remember something I hated. Well you hate what we used to call agua di boca. Yeah yeah but the mineral I think it was potassium. I can't remember. Well we well we did a bunch of side by side taste tests of just different minerals like magnesium chloride versus sodium chloride versus potassium chloride in small amounts and mixtures of them.
Uh and then we tried you know various sulfates and anyway I really like some of the hardcore German ones. Like I like Gero Steiner, I like Apolinaris, uh I like the saltier like I like uh uh Vichy catalan I like those things a lot. Cause it I either want it to just be the most ripping hard seltzer on earth or I want it to be like so funky that it it is something that's worth paying for. So like I go for the very mineral y ones but I was never able I you know we looked up like knock off a polynaris because that's been famous for a long time and we were not able with anyone's construction to get something that tasted to me like a polynaris, right? Stas, we did the side by side I would say they were universally non successful.
Yep. And by the way, it wasn't just me. It was like none of the interns could get stuff that looked right. I've never had a fake one that looks right. And so I'm just telling you if you're gonna follow these fake liquors.
There's there's a recipe in there for green chartreuse and there's a recipe in there for yellow chartreuse in the dupley book. I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you I guarantee you that's not gonna taste like chartreuse. It might taste fine. It might taste good but you know back in the eighteen hundreds you know uh if I gave you if if you were in New York City and I gave you something and said this is what chartreuse taste like you'd be like okay okay you know what I mean what are you gonna say what are you gonna say anyway it's like uh you know you could tell me hey Dave this is what Pool K is supposed to taste like and Jack is sitting next to me is like dude Dave this is not what pool cake tastes like I had the real stuff at the place this is not what it tastes like right yeah fair have you had any more pool K no not since the last call have you had anything interesting you're in one of the most interesting food countries in the world you you're not telling me any food stories um so the last time I got tacos at a another meat bucket not the meat bucket but another one the it was really late and the guy just gave me a cup of broth like on the house. From the bucket like birria no no from a side pot I think it was like birria broth.
It was amazing it's delicious. So late night you go for the side pot I guess I didn't really know what it was I couldn't understand what he was saying. I was like okay sure I kind of like late night a little bit of broth. I think it's a good cultural thing. Any of you guys down with the late night little bit of broth?
Yeah it was like a great nightcap any of you guys ever been to uh uh Andres Carni uh Andre Andres Carney de Rece in uh in Bogota it's like uh I've described it on the show but years ago. So it's like a it's like a village restaurant where they that the whole village is the restaurant and the whole village works there, right? And so like it's like they created like this place where you show up at like six PM and you start like with like whatever aguardiente and like you know like uh gooseberries, uh what do they call them? Achuva uh Uchuva on the table and you're eating them, right? Then you have dinner, there's like these stage shows that go around, then they clear it, then you start dancing and you keep dancing until like until like three, four in the morning, and then when you go outside, there's people playing on guitars and they're serving soup.
Nice. Nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it it it it totally makes you uh feel like you're in some different era and that you're part of some different like class than what you are actually come from. Anyway.
How many questions are you? Only have one more. Okay. I'm gonna keep you on the book. Well, there's one in the Discord that we should try and get to too.
Oh, yeah. All right. Anyway, uh so I like soup. I like soup. Uh late n late night little bit of soup, I think is nice.
That's all I'm gonna say about that. Go on, John. I agree. Well, they have the other one in front of them. We'll see that and then we'll give me the Discord.
He's gonna want the discord the one that's in front of me, I can see. I'm gonna do it. I got eight minutes and forty two seconds. Come on. Always the live first.
Hold up and Jack, do you see the the spice question? So looking for is this the the book question? Wait, is this gonna be a Dune question? I heard you say spice. If this is a Dune question, Nastasia's gonna break the window.
She's not will not see Dune. What which is here we go. I like to cook dishes from many different places. But waste uh waste from spices going sale always makes me a bit of a sad panda for keeping spices fresh as long as possible. Would vacuum filling them using small mason jars provide a significant benefit?
So first of all, all pandas are sad because they're mean, right? They're mean, vicious creatures. Like they look cute. I'm not like here's some animals that like I would not want to be friends with. Pandas, red pandas are okay.
Red panda, fine. Uh koalas. I mean, I know that they're having big trouble now, koalas, so I feel bad saying negative things about them, but trash can animals. Okay. Um anyways.
Vacuuming them in a mason jar. Look, any time you're preventing uh oxidation, but I don't think oxidation is going to be is the main actual thing. I think most of it is just loss of volatiles. So I would say vacuuming them in um in bags, I would have even said, but I probably vacuuming them in a mason jar would help. It's just sealing the hell out of them, I think is the main thing.
I'm trying to think if oxidation is gonna be the main issue with them. I mean, some I guess oil, right? So there is oil, but I don't think most of the degradation is due to rancidity due to oils in the in the volatile oils. So I would say vacuuming is gonna help, but mainly just airtight and putting them in small uh containers and just getting rid of all of the air and all uh ability for stuff to uh evaporate off and leaving everything as whole as is possible for the longest period of time before you you break it up. I use very little pre ground stuff in my house.
The only stuff I have that's pre-ground really is cinnamon because what a pain, right? What a pain, guys, right? Uh and ginger, because also I don't keep big chunks of dry ginger. The other thing is uh that I'm gonna sound like a a huge piece of garbage here, but uh a lot of times, if it's the spice is not as fresh, you can just use a little more. Just use a little bit more.
You know? Just use a little bit more. It's like it it it this is why like I don't I this is why like when you're writing recipes, I hate giving people like uh uh, you know, I hate giving people an exact amount because you know, I go through I go through how much coriander do I have in my house, Nastasia? Tons. I just go through so much coriander.
You know why? Coriander is delicious. Coriander seeds are delicious. And there are people out there, if anyone who hears my voice and thinks they don't like coriander because they don't like cilantro, first of all, fix your dislike of cilantro, because even if it tastes like soap, it's still delicious. I'm telling you, there are many, many millions and millions of people out out there who also taste what you taste with cilantro but still like it.
I'm just gonna put that out there. Uh remember when Piper wanted to use actual soap and cocktails, the sodium laurel sulfate? That stuff tasted nasty. That's that's what soap tastes like. Anyways, uh, but cilantro, uh sorry, uh coriander seed doesn't really taste like cilantro at all.
It's got an amazing citrusy note. Use it, grind it fresh, buy the seeds, grind it fresh. Don't buy pre ground coriander, it's sad, sad, sad self. But anyway, I go through a lot of it. Uh so, but it's hard for me to write a recipe for people because they might have it sitting around for years.
And coriander, because it's so volatile and those citrusy notes tend to flash off, it's hard to say how much to use. You know what I'm saying, guys? Anyway. Yep. Yeah.
Yeah, pack them. Pack them, pack them small, vac them, vac 'em, pack them, freeze them. Vac them, pack them, freeze them. Uh Mongi Zukowski writes in uh I'm trying to cook a turkey thigh in a pressure cooker from a chef steps recipe. They said 20 minutes in their coon recon and to adjust up for an insta-pot.
So I did 25 minutes with a natural release. What that means natural release is let the pressure come down naturally, people. The meat is a bit chewy. How do you know if it's overcooked versus if it's undercooked? Thanks.
At 25 minutes, your thigh is not overcooked. You should have done 30. A lot of this just depends on the size of the meat. So remember, uh in a in a pressure cooker, you need to keep the pieces small enough that the temperature comes up uh in time. It overcooking in an Instapot, it's not gonna be kind of chewy.
It'll be stringy and dried out, and you'd have to do it for a significant period of time longer than that, unless it became not moist. If it dried out, that that that's one thing. But I would say I would try about 30 minutes. I would keep the make sure that the thigh pieces aren't too thick, right? Uh, you know, th that that's the main thing.
Is that a is that that answering the the question? Yeah. People? Anyone? John?
Yeah. All right. Steve Yoon wrote in, hey, uh, I have a friend who's allergic to alliums. Uh she can tolerate cooked onion, but can't have garlic. Cooked garlic, I'm sure, I guess is what you're saying.
I'm trying to make a pasta sauce for her. I'm wondering what substitute is there for garlic in a sauce. And now I have the song Substitute going through my head. Um, okay. Uh I'm getting it out of my head.
Give me a second, people. Give me one second. I'm getting the who out of my head. Hold on. Okay.
I was thinking about uh oh god, now it's back because I'm gonna say substitute for garlic. And uh the only thing I could think of is uh hang or assafetida. So, well, in general, so the Jains as a group of uh as a religious group don't eat alliums at all. They don't eat onions, they don't eat garlic, right? It's uh it's uh prescribed by their by their religion.
Uh but they do have a lot of those flavors by the uh judicious or really kind of like profligate use of this spice called either Hing or Asafetida, depending on kind of where you're you're coming from it. The ancient Romans uh used uh it and they called it laser. So it was is actually not exactly the same spice, but it's very close relative. And the only if you're making a uh a Roman recipe today, the only thing that you can uh substitute for laser is uh is assafetida or hing. You can get it at any place that sells uh Indian spices.
Now here's what it here's the thing I have to tell you about it. It smells weird and permeating and pungent when it's uh raw, right? So you it's it's it's uh it comes from uh I guess the corn of uh some you know like plant uh and it's compounded with starches and other things. There's two ways you can buy it. You can buy it pre-powdered, and they usually add some coloring to it and other things.
Uh the way I like to buy it is in rock form where it comes in these kind of rocks. It's harder to find. You gotta go to a place that really specializes in uh in uh Indian products to get the rock form of it. But that's how it's gonna maintain its flavor the best. You get a microplane, you get the rock, and you microplane it like you would nutmeg.
And when you cook it, it goes to a cooked allium flavor that's kind of midway between an onion and a garlic. So it's kind of like on that fence between an onion and a garlic and kind of got some shallity action to it. But you have to cook it, right? You can't judge the the flavor and the and the aroma of assafetida until you have cooked it. So please don't judge it based on what it smells like in the package.
My favorite thing to do with asapetida is to grate it over chicken before you cook it on a chicken skin over the chicken skin. Oh yeah. I had a recipe that I was gonna publish in the New York Times back when I was talking to them. Remember when I wrote that article about uh mana from Heaven stars? I was gonna do, I was gonna do assafetida, this recipe called Numidian chicken, which I don't think I've ever given anybody.
Great recipe, Numidian chicken, assafetida all over it. Uh it is a terrible sounding spice. It has a funky aroma if you're not used to it. Delicious. Delicious.
I have nine seconds, Nastasia. Wow. Buy Stassi's keep giving me the cane and the cutoff. They're waiting for us to work here because they're not done. So listen, get your Thanksgiving questions in.
Sandor Cat's coming back uh June, uh January uh 4th. Uh buy a Sears All Pro, otherwise we won't make it. We're gonna go out of business. Oh, one last thing on the way out, one last thing on the way out. Ready for this?
Uh I was going down the street biking here, and uh I had a guy road rage me, right? And the guy was yelled something out of the window that I can't repeat. Road rage. I figured out the best thing I can do, the best thing you can say to someone to really, really, really, really, really make them angry, but without giving them any reason to actually get out of the car and start hit you is when they say something, just go, woo! And that's what I did.
Cooking issues. Yeah.
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