Hello, and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave. Got uh John in the studio. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks.
Yeah? Yeah, we got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in her heidi hole up there in uh uh on the on the sound. It's the Long Island sound. People want to pretend it's the ocean, but it's not. It's a little more sheltered, which is nice.
How you doing? I'm okay. Yeah? Strong. Strong.
Like uh, you know, like uh I'm not I'm not dead, but on the other hand, uh it could be better. I could be better. I don't know. I got I got I got sick again yesterday, and I don't know what it is, and it's really strange. Well, we know you're not rocking the cron.
There's no way you could get it I don't know because it's like night sweats and fever. So I'm like, what is it? First of all, night sweats should be a Bee Gees song. I'm imagining Actually, what it is is it's it's like it's exactly in between. It came out in the 90s, right in between the Bee Gees and the Scissor Sisters was Night Sweats.
I'm and I can hear it in my head. We'll write it, we'll get someone to record Night Sweats for us. I freaking love the Scissor Sisters. Does anyone else like the Scissors Sisters? No?
Yeah. You don't, John, you know? I can't think of any songs off the top of my head. I haven't said that you're with us today, Hassan. What are your feelings on the Scissor Sisters?
I don't think I have any. No? What are your feelings on the Bee Gees? What are your feelings on like high voice singing stuff? Oh, I love the Bee Gees.
They had a documentary on HBO and it explained where he got the uh high-pitched singing from. Yeah? Where is it? Where'd it come from? Um, groups like the main ingredient or the soul groups at the time singing in a falsetto.
Um, he was imitating that and it kind of became their own thing. Main ingredients, good stuff. I like that stuff. You know what I don't appreciate? Oh, I got yeah, we also got Jackie Molecules over here, so I didn't introduce them, but of course the Sammore and Jackie Molecules in California.
I feel that the what I what I appreciate is that style of falsetto to me is so much more interesting. No offense. I can't even believe he's still alive. Frankie Valley. That kind of stuff just doesn't hit me the same way.
You know what I mean? It's like not the same kind of McGillakutty. You know what I mean? Yep. Yep, yep.
Yeah. Uh what do you guys think about the screen like like high like not falsetto, but like screaming falsetto, like like Chris Cornell. Fantastic, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, come on.
All right, now, okay. Ready for it? Now, this is not a cooking question. By the way, uh, you should call in your your cooking related or what, whatever question. 917-410-1507.
917-410-1507. And that's for the Patreon uh listeners who uh can listen to us live. And if you'd like to listen to us live and call in, well then go to uh what is it, www.patreon forward slash cooking issues or patreon.com slash cooking issues. Go there and join up and for a very small monthly fee. We'll throw you some fun stuff.
I have some fun stuff coming your way also. Uh just like weird documents, like there's a there's some weird PDFs on there, and we're gonna put more on that aren't available to other people. Go check it out. Go check it out. Uh so back to this.
So, Robert Plant or Chris Cornell. One one's voice has to be erased. I'm not saying the quality of the music, I'm not saying, oh no, Liz Zeppelin's so important. I don't care about that. What I'm saying is the voice erased.
What do you guys think? Uh I'm gonna go with Cornell, which is crazy, but oh my god. My gut, my gut, my t my gut tells me that. It was such a it was more unique, I think. What?
Okay, okay? I know it's a weird answer, but is anyone gonna come out and erase plant? Let Cornell stay, let the voice stay. Anyone? Hassan, where are you on this?
To me, the sound guard, Chris Cornell's sound in Soundgarden and the fact that he can go so low and so high and the growl and the scream. I mean, come on. I mean, I love Plant, but like Plant's got that one kind of plant thing going. I mean, like Chris Cornell, he's all over the map. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
I mean, Chris Cornell, man. Not very many people better. Uh all right. Okay. Uh how the heck do you know?
Oh, night sweats. Night sweats. And I guess the reason Scissors Sisters came to my mind and then the Bee Gees is because of night moves, their album. Right? That must be why it happened.
But I can imagine it in the falsetto voice. Night sweats, but I'm picturing the Bee Gees doing the doing the dance with those with those white pants that are. What do you guys think about the pants that are super sticky around your thighs, but like loose on the bottom? No. That's not I would never want to wear that.
No, no. Couldn't be me. No. It looked good on them though. Look good on them.
Love it. What'd you say, Stas? Love it. Love those pants. Love anything tight around that area.
Tight around the thigh. That's this that's Nastasia's memoir. Tight around the thigh. Uh so Stas though, you like it on modern people or just on the old ones? Um, only people with the right bodies.
So what about like what about like people who were that way in the 70s but now have the big old pot belly and the streaming hair on both sides with the giant ball patch up top? You know how I feel about that, Dave. We got in a huge argument last week about it. I thought you I thought you liked those guys, but you didn't like you don't like hot old guy. You don't like ripped old man.
Nastasi doesn't enjoy a ripped old man. I don't enjoy old men. Old man, period. I thought you I thought you liked uh like a like a well-aged old guy. What about that guy Gunn?
He's he's good looking about Pierce Brosnan. He's a good looking older dude. No, I do not find him attractive at all. And yet you find Paul McCartney attractive. This makes no sense at all.
No, I don't. He's not ideal, but he's Paul McCartney, you know. That's the only old guy I could do. I tell you what. From the day he from the day he like, you know, went through the change until the day he died, Paul Newman, hot man.
The same didn't say that. Go ahead go ahead and say that. Uh all right, should we do some cooking related stuff? Probably. Yeah.
All right. Uh first of all, we were supposed to have uh Michael Anstendig and Masa from uh their new uh book on Japanese cocktails. But there's a little bit of a scheduling snafu. Uh we're gonna get him back when, John? We don't know yet.
TBD, but probably in March. Probably soon. So we're we apologize. We uh deeply apologize for that, but save up all of your uh Japanese uh cocktail questions for that. We had a a bunch, right?
But we can we can get some we can get some more questions in on that. So don't you know, don't save them. If you send the questions in now, John will uh will will keep them and then and then bring them back up uh for later. But in case you didn't have any questions, think about uh this about 10 years ago, maybe a little more now, uh there was a huge movement in uh the US uh basically, I don't know what the word, just like really, really, really loving the idea of Japanese cocktails without any knowledge of it at all. So it's all just about uh, I don't know, what's what's a good word for fawning admiration?
My my synonym creator in my head is uh is is gone, but without knowledge. It's just they wanted to grab onto it, use aspects of it to kind of push themselves here in the States without any without really connecting to actual Japanese cocktail uh culture. Whereas Masa is legit a Japanese bartender who lives in the in the States now. So it's gonna be uh kind of interesting. And of course, we've learned a lot as a country over the past 10 years.
Remember when we went to uh Tokyo Nastasia and we went to the bars and it was like so 100% different to the way that they worked over here. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And like crazy. And we were like, you know, like we had literally been flown over there to like show our skills off and like our techniques. And we went into the bars and we were just like, what are they doing?
You know what I mean? And so it's like, what the hell? I'll never forget. Uh remember we went in and there was that bartender, and she she starts rinsing the ice off, and we're like, what the hell is going on? And then like, but the fun the the funny thing was is that you know, when we were going out, we wouldn't have any translators, so we also couldn't ask.
Like we were ordering basically, basically by pointing at things, right? I mean, it was just kind of like uh not like they would have answered us if we had asked them in Japanese either. I don't know. But uh anyway, so it should be fun when we get them uh back on. I think the book is doing quite well, so save up your save up your questions.
Who else we got coming up soon, John? Well, who's next week? Uh Dave Wondrich. Oh, speaking of cocktails, indeed. Yeah, we have the new uh Oxford is was it a compendium or is it an encyclopedia?
Compan that sounds more like a one-rich project, right? Compendium. Well, I think it's companion, isn't it? Co companion? Let's see.
Companion. Oxford companion. So in other words, it could be about anything, right? But you read it while you're drinking. So it's the Oxford.
Companion to spirits. So like may or may not have anything to do with cocktails and spirits. I've read it. It does actually have something to do uh with that. But it's uh it's a weird title, right?
Companion? What do you guys think about that? What does that even mean in this case? Like a dog is a companion to a person, right? Not a person.
I wouldn't want to learn about people by talking to a dog. Maybe I would. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's also the Oxford companion to beer. Let's just think there's a That's pretzels.
The Oxford That's pretzels. That's a book entirely about pretzels. And I have to say, uh, you know, normally before I go, because we don't have a guest, right? So uh we can talk about things for a while. I've been working a lot on pretzels, but before I go into a pretzel hole, which you know my pretzel hole is deep and boring, right?
You know this. Yeah. Deep and boring pretzel hole. Before I go into that, uh anyone else have any interesting food experiences in the past week? Uh this is your time.
You could have thought about it before you showed up at the show today. Oh, yeah. Nothing. You made John, you made nothing interesting. Soup?
What kind of soup? Using Broto, like Marco Kenora's Broto broth. Rebecca sent me some a while ago. Rebecca the the uh the boondoggler, yeah. Now in Philadelphia, no longer brotoing it up.
I will say that's a great product. Yeah. The broth, yeah. It's really, really good. So describe their broth versus the knockoff bone broth.
And is there a difference between just is it just like they boil it longer and it's got more gelatin? What's the fundamental difference here? Yeah, it's got more gelatin for sure. You know what I do to my stocks if I don't like the gelatin? Add sheets of gelatin?
That is correct, my friend. I add gelatin to them. Yeah, why not? Yeah. So like it's a good tip for you.
Here's a cooking related tip in the middle of John's story. If you have to use bullion cubes uh or any sort of other fake broth, right, in uh gravies or in uh like if you're making like chili, because I use stock and chili along with beer and other things, or uh, and you know you're not gonna build up enough gelatin with the with the meat base you have other stuff, just put some gelatin in that son of a gun. I have gelatin sheets. You know why I use gelatin sheets, John? Why?
Because they're so easy to add to things. Yeah, you just soak them for in cold water for a little bit of time and they dissolve boom with no clumping, right? Whereas with powder, you gotta worry, is it gonna dissolve right? Mm-hmm, me me nanny, nanny nanny, right? So like the sheets are nice to have around.
They're also super easy to dose because you dose it by the sheet. It takes more sheets than you think, actually. That's the one thing people are like, oh, I'll add a sheet. Nah, it's like it's always like six or eight sheets that you need to add. But it's incredibly convenient.
And it's uh that's the way. And I I don't recommend buying anything above uh like uh silver gold. Don't bother with the platinum. It's a no, don't bother. Anyway, my point is great way to add body to uh a broth if the body's just not there.
Don't add so much that you get that. Does you know what that noise means, John? That's that feeling that uh sauce gets when it's overreduced. Yeah. Do you hate that?
Yeah, it's not good. It's execrable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
All right, so continue. Soup you made with Broto. So you use Broto as the base for the soup. Yeah. What's up, fancy pants?
How much more does that cost than uh garbage broth? I I know you didn't buy it, but how much more does it cost? Uh it's like I think if you get a six pack, it's sixty-five dollars plus shipping. So six quartz, I think, maybe more than a quart. That ain't cheap, man.
No, it's not. No, no, yeah, but it's good product, and yeah. So thoughts from the crew. So Marco Cenora, basically, single handedly single-handedly, I had never heard of the term bone broth, and I had never considered using any sort of Italian word for broth up until when he starts pushing this stuff. Anyone else?
Anyone else think of this before Kenora? What? Yeah, I was first I'd heard of it right, right. Stas, you? No, the first, I think.
Yeah. So he pushes this stuff, makes it famous, puts a, you know, health, quote unquote health. Everyone who listens to me knows I don't believe in health is related to food. Healthy food is the food that makes you happy and reduces your stress in life and doesn't like add more problems to your life. That's what's gonna make you live longer, in my opinion.
Uh wide variety of things, low mental stress equals equals uh long life. Anyways, he adds this health, tags this health thing onto it, takes off like wildfire, and then other people just rip off his his uh they're just coasting on his business. Kind of like people who knock off the Searzol, weasels. Yeah. Weasels.
The man should be rich. Whether or not you like the product, whether or not you like believe in any health stuff, like the fact that he convinced all these people to like take a shot of broth or somehow substitute broth for coffee, that is a knuckleheaded idea, people. If what you want is coffee, drink coffee. Cause because uh I don't care how long they simmer those bones, uh Brodo's not gonna get your motor running, right? And and coffee get your motor running in more than one way.
Now, for those of you out there who don't have a gastrointestinal uh intestinal response to coffee, for those of you whose peristalsis works the same whether or not you consume coffee, maybe you don't know this. But for those of us who, when we drink a couple espresso, all of a sudden our insides start working at a much quicker pace. Broto ain't gonna fix that. You know what I'm saying? Truth.
No. Yeah. But anyway. I was telling you guys about the street broth that I had in Mexico City, where they were just like they had the deria broth there and like a sipping cup. I guess that's been a thing.
Yeah, I mean, that's because the bur Broto was the first time I'd like to sipped on broth, really, like in that context. Uh I mean, hot broth on a cold morning. Hot broth on a cold morning is a good thing. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of cultures know this.
I mean, maybe Americans didn't know this, but a lot of cultures know this. Not a replacement for coffee. Anyway, he should be a billionaire. Yeah. Like, that's the problem with coming up with an idea that other people can easily draft on and like take take your stuff from.
He should be a billionaire because he created this market whether it was not. True. Whether, you know, here's another thing. Do you guys notice that now it's becoming so popular for people to give up caffeine? Have you noticed this?
No, not really. No. Oh my God. It's it's the new thing. Yeah, I'm guilty of it, Dave.
I did it for I did it for a few months. Yeah, you went back. I don't know. Listen, I went back. Here let me let me tell you a uh a little, and I'm not a I'm not a psychologist by trade, although I have shrinks in my family.
Now I see when someone says something like that, what that means is they're about to tell you some garbage that has no data behind it. If they if someone else, again, talking about drafting, if I'm drafting on my stepfather's uh, you know, uh doctor degree and being a psych psychiatrist, then obviously I'm about to tell you a load of horse crap. And that's true. I I have no proof for this. However, it is my strong feeling that when you give up something for health-related reasons, you are bound to feel better because you have done something you didn't want to do to try to improve your health.
It's called placebo, right? So, like everyone who gives up something, they all of a sudden they feel fantastic. Ask any raw food person, that's also if you go raw, you feel better because you're also going slightly insane because your body is starving itself. And you feel that if you're going on the toilet that much, that something interesting must be happening to your insides. I think that's what happens why people think they feel good when they go raw food.
But I don't know. I don't understand giving up caffeine. Moderate. Moderate your caffeine intake. Is that where you are now, Jack?
Yeah, totally. Moderate. No more like no more. I try not to do afternoon coffees because uh trouble. Yeah.
Like what time in the afternoon? My wife has a hard 3 pm. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I think 3 p.m.
is smart. I think like anytime after that, you start getting into danger zone. Now you have that song going through my head. Highway to the danger zone. That's not a good song to have my head.
What? That's my idea for uh for a department of health timer. Oh my god. Tell the idea. Tell the idea.
Yeah, it plays that song how you do the danger zone as soon as like your time temp stuff uh it needs to be changed out. But like does genius. I don't remember how it works, but like, okay, so like so you have the timer, it goes, it goes on the hotel pan. Oh, it but it's also it's attached to a thermometer, right? Mm-hmm.
So what it should do is it should calculate the cooling curve, right? And then like the the the amount of volume that the song plays at is like dependent on how close how far you are down the highway. So like you know, like like when you're only like one hour into the cooling cycle and it's like, I don't know if you're gonna make it on time, it's like you know what I mean? Yeah, and then, like, you know, like 30 minutes before it's like, ha wait too. It's it's going crazy so that you can't ignore it anymore, and then you have to spread it out real thin and cool it like that.
For that, John? Yeah, what do you think, John? Great idea. Brilliant. You've used that, right?
I know. I patented it already. Yeah, she patented it. And uh, does it come with a free pair of uh those pizza vomit chef pants? Remember those?
Yeah, with uh the Tasmanian devil on it. Yeah, yeah, like Tasmanian Devil and all sorts of things that no matter how much food you drop on the pants, they don't look stained. You know what I'm talking about, guys? Yeah. They're kind of like great grayish black with like all kind of like bull crap on it.
You could you could you could step into a vat of bologna sauce and step out of that thing and look the same. Pizza vomit pants. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, uh that is a good idea.
I don't know how we got onto that, but that is a strong, that is a strong idea. So you still haven't finished your soup, so you started with Broto and ended with what? Oh, uh mushrooms, leeks, and then some faro. Stacey. What's up, Frenchie French?
You know, I never cook with leeks, you know why? Why? I hate cleaning leeks and I hate sand. Yeah. Oh my god, do I hate sand?
I hate sand as much as it's I also don't cook with shallots because man, they're tiny and I hate doing that. Yeah. How depressing is it, people, when you get a shallot and you're like, I finally I picked a shallot that's only one bulb on the inside, right? Then you cut off just a little bit of the root so that there's no sand, but it's gonna stay together while you chop it, right? And you're like, you're like, I'm gonna sizzle this thing like a wheel, like it's gonna go crazy.
I'm gonna have tiny shallot pieces. And then you you cut the tip of the paper off, you pull the two bulbs, two bulbs, and then you have to peel another layer off. Yeah. That's happened to me one too many times. You know what I mean?
What are your feelings? I haven't seen them in years, but they used to make this thing called a shallon. Have you seen these? No. They look like they're called a shallon.
They're bigger. They're like, they're like bigger round. They're like uh like an inch and a half around or so bigger, and they're long. They look like uh Cindy Lou Who's head or something like this. But they uh they're always single bulb, they're bigger, and they but they have a more of a shallot taste than an onion taste.
And fairway, like no other market. Did you know that? Because they're closed now, that's why they're like no other market that exists. They're not allowed by fairway. Yeah.
Uh well, the ones that closed are like no other market. Anyways, in the 90s, they used to sell uh they used to sell those things all the time. And I was like, ooh, that's a good idea. Maybe I'll use some shallot flavor. But since then I've just uh erased the shallot from my from my repertoire.
As I have the leek, even though when other people cook them, I love them because they are delicious. Uh yeah. Anyways, oh my god, Stas, you would get so mad. Yesterday, I made chili and I sliced all the raw onions, and I was like, you know what? Uh you know, I nothing's gonna happen tonight, you know, for me.
And so I'm just gonna eat a whole bunch of raw onions because I never get to eat raw onions because my wife doesn't like raw onions, doesn't like them in the house, so I sh I I chopped them right before we had the chili. But correct me if I'm wrong, people, raw onion people. Chili without a raw onion, sad. You want the you want the raw onion on top of the chili for people who like raw onion, right? 100%.
Yeah. So I was like, and then she was like, I'm in the mood, and you were like, No, come on. No, no, no, no. Come on. Come on.
I gauge myself right. I gauge myself right, Studs. Come on. But like the problem is is that I haven't eaten raw onions in so long because I don't like I'm not really allowed to have them in my house that I forgot what it's like to go to bed, have your hand come up by your nose and smell the onion coming out of your skin up to your nose right after you eat it. And I was like, oh yeah, it does suck.
You know what I mean? It's worth it though. Totally worth it. Totally worth it. Yeah.
100% worth it. They should make a pill. Here's the money. Here's some money, chemistry people. Make a pill.
Forget Bino. Although I've done a lot of tests with Bino recently. You guys remember Bino? Yeah. That's the anti, the anti-tuting, the anti-tooting uh enzyme.
What if they could make an enzyme that you ate it after you ate the raw onion and it prevented that? That would be amazing. No? Sure. Yeah.
I would love it. Yeah, because Nastasia likes the flavor, just doesn't like the aftermath. Maybe it's the smell coming out of your skin, is what gives you nightmares. You know, it's definitely, and I think I have what Jen has where it's like it, I it it's a weird reaction in my in everything. Yeah.
My mouth, everything. Jen's like, Jen doesn't like being at the table when it happens. So like I literally chop the onion, put it on top of my chili. We did the Fritos with the chili. What are your thoughts?
Fritos? Yeah. Yeah. Good call. Fritos.
Frito God snack chip for real. Come on. I mean, like, I I love a traditional tortilla, but in terms of like modern things, Frito is straight up great. Anyway, uh so I dumped the onion and then immediately covered it with like cheese and lettuce and the all stuff to kind of keep tamp down the aroma of the onion. Because if I even have it sitting on the table, when Jen comes up to the table, she's like, damn it, what the hell?
Who has the onions? She hasn't talked like that at all. For those of you that know her, she hasn't talked like that at all. But that's kind of what that's what her mind is saying. Anyway.
So, uh, we still have not finished your soup, John. What's going on here? You got the No, I pureeed the onions and the mushrooms and leeks. And leeks, yes. Yeah.
Uh, and then cooked the grains and the broth and then. Oh, wait, which grains? You didn't mention grains. Oh. Yeah.
Oh, Stas likes that. It's something she actually enjoys. Well, it's delicious, yeah. Um. Yeah, and then that was it.
How uh how pearled was the faro that you used? How much bran was on the outside? Were they white or were they brown? Uh pretty white. Pretty white?
But but still enough that they didn't burst or did they burst? They didn't burst. Which was nice. What are your feelings when they burst? A little sad.
Yeah? Yeah. But how much starch flew off to thicken up the broth? Enough? But you pureeed it anyway.
You pured it and then added the grain. Do you puree everything together? So only a small amount of grain? Sweat the leeks and the mushrooms, pureeed them, then cooked the grains and the broth and then added the puree. Have you talked on the air about your sweat tests?
What sweat test? Your sweat tests, your broth sweat tests. Remember? Like a year ago, I was like, does it really make a difference whether you sweat the sweat the mirror beforehand? Oh, right, right, right, right.
Yeah. Oh man, what were the results of that? Um I think it did make a bit of a difference. It did. You said it made a difference.
It did, yeah. We didn't know what the difference was because you weren't, for all you that don't know, John like is uh, you know, he's a little bit of a uh a francophile. You know what I'm saying? Like, not just a francophone, as I say, but a francophile. So when he sweats his uh veg, he doesn't let it brown.
He goes, he goes Frenchy French, make make don't let it brown. You know what I mean? Yep. Which I think is kind of trash can. I like a little bit of brown on my on my onions, especially if I'm gonna brothify them.
You know? Yeah. Do you sweat them long enough for them to go brown like caramelized brown or no? You don't sweat them. It's just a slight sweat.
Yeah. But even though even though night sweat. The night sweat. Uh yeah. So right.
So you said it did make a difference. It made the broth different. Yeah. But we can't figure out why. I think it was a little bit sweeter.
Um that's possible. But that's probably only an onion phenomenon. Like, what's the point in sweating the celery, for instance? Yeah, I don't know. I have to redo it and then just do each individual each ingredient individually.
I'm doing a demo tomorrow at my old uh arch nemesis uh ice, because uh the French culinary, we were arch nemesis's sisters with uh ice, but now that the FCI was bought by ice, I guess I can go. So I'm going to do a demo tomorrow with uh Chef Hervé Malavere, my old friend from the FCI, and we're gonna do the old onion ice cream. Speaking of onions that uh Nils and I used to do at the French culinary, and that one we pressure cook the onions, and the onions go. You should not pressure cook onions for um for caramelized onions because it erases almost all of the onion flavors, too much, right? The high temperatures erase like too much of it.
But it's great for onion ice cream. And by the way, I don't know if I've said this on air. If you are making things like uh, I do a lot of, I don't do beef chili in the like well anyway. If you're gonna do things like pork or big things and you're gonna braise them or like a carbonade with big pieces of beef in a pressure cooker, you need to like triple your onion load because uh the flavor of the onion drops down so hard, but then you also need to slightly reduce the sugar load because it's gonna be a little bit sweeter. I always add a little bit of sugar to those things.
So you guys? Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. A little bit.
A little bit. Uh, you know, don't be afraid of adding a little bit of sugar. By the way, you probably already know this if you're listening to us anyway, but don't be afraid to add a little sugar. I'm shocked. Like when Dak, when I'm teaching Dax how to how to finish food, right?
Uh like, you know, soups and stews and things like this. He's like, oh, this doesn't taste right. I'm like, add a little bit of salt and add a little bit of sugar. And because, you know, like it's very hard for him to work his mind around the difference between something being bad and just, oh, it needs a little bit of sugar to like bring it together to knock down the bitterness a little bit and just you know what I mean? Yeah.
And it needs salt to punch up all the flavors. He just it it astounds me how you can't get that into your head unless you do it. You know what I mean? Uh, this is why Thai food's so awesome, man. Because like, you know, like fish sauce and sugar at the table.
You can do you can do it. You can all the adjustments you make there are awesome. Thai food is hard delicious, am I right? It's so delicious. Hard delicious.
It's so delicious. Yeah. That's what I made last night was uh pasta. Wait, wait, Bangkok what? It's called Bangkok mall pasta from the from the uh night market book.
So it's like it's spaghetti and it's like stir fried with um garlic, anchovy, chili, as sort of like the holy trinity, and then red pepper and oyster sauce, Thai seasoning. Just kind of I like that. In big scare quotes, Thai seasoning. Thai seasoning. Yeah.
And then and and green brine green peppercorns, which is really the only thing I use them for, but I always keep them around. The dry greens or the pickled greens? No, the pickled. Bryan, yeah. Oh, Brian.
Bryant. I thought you said grine, yeah. Yeah, I never keep them around in my house. Should I start keeping them around in my house? I don't know.
I don't use them for anything else. Do you do you like when they're draped over in that viney weird form? Or is that just too much? It's too much for you. Actually, sometimes I do it that way, yeah.
Fun little visual. Here's a product that I don't like unless they're gr blended caper berries. Too salty. Too salty to eat on their own. Sliced.
Wedges. Yeah. Wedges. Fine. Too salty.
Okay. For those of you that listen here, you you've heard me many times rail against the session button because who wants to have your f your taste buds erased? Oh, we have a caller? All right. Remind me of that, John.
We'll get back. Caller, you're on the air. What's up? Hi. I just wanted to call.
Uh last week there was a conversation about intergenerational relationships. And uh you know, I just think the word gross got used, and that's not very nice. You shouldn't be criticizing people, how people fall in love. A lot of people can learn things from people of different generations, and I think call how people follow them up gross is pretty gross itself. Yeah, I don't have any recollection of what you're talking about at all.
Oh. But I'm I'll tell you what. When you said that people uh that especially for me or to me more, that's who you brought up. To me more and Ashton Kutcher. Wait, what were we even talking about?
How that was how how uh to date within your own range. What I'm saying, what I okay, it's coming back to me slightly. It's coming back to me slightly. My recollection was is that I disagree with you, Dave. Yeah.
Okay. Well, we'll wait. We'll see what happens when you we'll see what happens, Nastasia. Nastasia, I'm gonna zing you because you're zinging me. We'll see what happens when you actually date someone.
What age it is. Yeah. Uh all I'm saying is, look, oh man. I'm not I'm not hard. I'm not hard one way or the other.
Like I I think I've told the story of my brother-in-law, whom I whom I love, right? I I thought there's no Tom. I thought there was no way that he should go out with my sister because now remember, he was in high school and he was a senior and she was a freshman. I'm like, nope. I was like, nope, not gonna work.
He's he's just trying to like go out with someone much less experienced, and it's it's it's a nightmare. He's doing some sort of power trip. I was wrong in that case. Right. Individual relationships are individual relationships, right?
That's a hundred percent the truth. I said, Yeah, but then you say something like they're gross, and that's not okay. Wait, which which one's who's gross? Your comment on the colour. And so what?
They like each other. A lot of people have intergenerable like that work out well. You can't put a number on maturity. Individual relationships are individual relationships, specifically Demi Moore and Ashley Kusher, that's gross. Because it was a weird.
They never look like I disagree. I disagree. That's the whole point of being a human, Nastasia, is that you get to have your own judgment and I get to have my own judgment. Yeah, yeah. They never looked like a statement that how people fall in love is gross.
I didn't say how they fall in love is gross. I said that couple was gross. They don't look like they go together. They never look like they go together. Look, she's hot.
I mean, I'm not it's not thinking against her. Demi Moore, very attractive woman, right? I just I felt that as a couple, they look gross together. What do you want out of me? Well, it's not the age necessarily art.
What about the president? The president. What? You're talking about Mac Cron now? Yeah.
I mean, I haven't seen them together. I've just saw the pic. I you just brought to my attention the age gap that they have there. Well, that's also not a good example, because wasn't she his teacher at some point? Like that's a little bit that's gross.
That's gross. Uh I was like, hot for teacher, that's gross. Listen, teachers out there, do not mine your students for sex. I mean, that's very easy. Don't mind your students for sex.
That's all. I my opinion. Individual relationships may vary. That's my opinion. You should like in general, you should not do that.
Well, that's not a rule that I would follow from you or anyone else. But I'm glad that you have an opinion. Oh, speaking of Macron, though, the reason Macron came up, Nastasia, is that when he was gonna shut down, was he was gonna shut down for Omicron, right? And we were like, if Macron was here, or if they had the post in France, the headline would have been like, oh, Macron, right? Like Omicron, I didn't get that until I got that.
That's how that came that came up. Uh but anyway, uh, I'm gonna go ahead and uh stand by what I'm saying is that in the majority of the time, right? I feel like you're probably gonna have, and again, peep everyone's different. For okay, how about this? Just for me, I'm glad that I'm that I'm married to someone who has similar life experience.
Me, your results may vary. You can do what you want. I'll stand by my Aston Kutcher or Demi Moore. And PS, they're not together anymore. Why?
Because that relationship did not work out for whatever reason. Did that relationship work out? Wait, are they married? Wait. Is our Ashley Kusher and Demi Moore married?
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Mila Clunch. Nice. John, nice.
That's a good thing. John. John, tell your your thing. So I got so angry when this happened. So my mom came to pick me up in the city a couple weeks ago to go back out to Connecticut.
And I was walking out of my building with my dog. And this freaking lady is walking by, you know, pushing her kidner stroller. And she looks at my dog and she's like, oh, is is that your girlfriend? And I was just like, oh, whatever. Hold up.
And I was just like, oh, she's, you know, just being cute. It's a cute dog, you know. Thanks. Appreciate it. I was like, oh, maybe.
And then she looks at me and she's like, you shouldn't reevaluate your life decisions. And then I realized she was looking at my mom, who was outside of the car, right outside the building, picking me up. And I was just, I was confused and like speechless. And I was like, what is this lady talking about? And then after she walked away, I pieced it together that she was talking about my mom.
And I was like, one F you. Like that's that's its own thing. But what about props to your mom? You didn't think that? Sure, props to my mom.
But you know what? Mainly, mind your own business, lady. What if that is my girlfriend? So what uh I ended up getting a speeding ticket. You can't let that stuff get to you, man.
Uh it's true though, people saying things to you on the street, like burns. Yeah, well, it's just like mind your own business. This is New York City. Nobody wants to talk to you. Don't talk to me.
Like, just stay around the way we usually do. Okay, so let me ask you a question. So, for the for those of you that have never driven out of New York, now I know you LA people are like, you don't know from traffic in New York. Fine. Or DC people.
But like nothing really is less pleasant than trying to fight your way out of Manhattan, up the east side of Manhattan, up the 95 corridor into Connecticut after a certain period of time during the day. It is soul crushing, right? I would say that's almost worse than LA traffic in a way. That is the worst, what you just described. Well, since I don't, you know, you would know better than I because you've done both.
You know what I mean? I've never really done uh the LA traffic thing. Um and also the LA traffic, at least you're like, oh, I've seen a million movies about LA traffic. No one like no one films a movie like on I-95. Yeah.
Yeah. So when you're driving on I-95 people, uh, if you if there's any people who make movies, right? When when you make the movie of the person who's caught in traffic on I-95, the joke to make is as you're driving up through my anus, which is an actual sign that you see on I-95, like near Stanford, it's a place, my anus. It's pronounced Miyanus, I think. We always call it Myanus.
You're supposed to turn to whoever's next. No, I think it's my anus, dude. It's my anus. You do? You think it's your anus.
So listen, the joke to make when you're driving past this sign every time, it never never gets old, is heavy traffic through my anus. And then that's it. That's all you gotta say. You know what I mean? Or slow going through my anus.
I wish I could call the show that this week. That'd be a great title. Well, if you spell it mean this, you can do that. You know what I mean? Anyway, uh yeah.
Wait, so wait. So we're still on wait, how like so? Here's the thing. Here's the problem. I'm sure this would happen.
So you're on that I 95 corridor. Yep. So it should take 40, 45 minutes to fight like up to Stanford. It takes probably an hour and a half, two hours, something like this. From here in the city?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So and you're going further north than that. You're going past New Haven. Nightmare.
Anyway. Yeah. The problem with that is you're sitting there and you're probably thinking of comebacks. Doing stuff. And thinking of comebacks that you should have said.
Oh, so many things I wish I did differently after that. So, what are the comebacks that you should have used? No real comebacks. I just wanted to like go back and just yell at her and tell her to mind her own business. We should have used.
Yeah, for me it wasn't comebacks, just like how I should have reacted to the situation. Oh yeah. And you can tell me. I mean, but good for your mom, right? I don't know.
Great for my mom. I'll go back to props to props to your mom. You know what you should have said? She was my teacher. I'm a little confused.
So your mother looks young. I mean I don't know. She's 65, 66. You're asking John to think about her mom in this way. That's pretty hardcore.
No, I just don't understand why this lady would want to say that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. People are dumb. Look, yeah.
Also, some people are just high too. Who knows what she sees out of her mind? Yeah. Baby and a stroller. Uh uh, oh, all of a sudden, people stop baking out because they have kids.
That's not been my experience. Baking out. Anyway. Speaking of, uh, this might be interesting. Uh it's not really food related, but apparently there is a major new study out on uh psilocybin and it's uh effects on long-term cognition.
Apparently, it's fine. Fine. I've never tried it. Makes me nervous. Makes me nervous.
Yeah. Um that's great. Okay. So who else do we have coming up after Dave Londridge? Who don't we have coming up?
We have uh I believe we have uh Nasli and Catherine from MoFad, and then we have Dr. Jessica Harris. Also from Mo Fed, but from from everything. Yep. Then Adam DiMartino, one of somebody in the Sasia put us in touch with.
And we got Francisco McGoya, then Nick from Grove and Vine, and working on getting Kenji on to discuss his new book as well. Walk. Yep, walk. Walk. All right, listen.
When Nick, Nick is Nastasia's olive oil friend, right? So wait, Dave, can we do a blind tasting? I really want to do a blind tasting. I like with all of the crap versions from like stop and shop, like, and then his. You know what I mean?
It would be really interesting on air. Uh yeah, that'd be cool. Okay. Here's my issue with that. Yeah.
In general, like I think blind tastings are an opportunity to make people feel bad about themselves. You know what I'm saying? It's like they're like kind of like gotcha moments. It's kind of like the the it's I just uh I there's so many things you evaluate in a blind like triangle tastings are interesting to just test the difference between different things, like but like especially cereal blind tastings in kind of a weird atmosphere for especially when panelists aren't trained to taste a particular thing. I mean, I think it's I don't know, it's just an opportunity.
That's like um whenever we It's like the Reese's peanut butter thing, you know. I don't know. Well, because remember like um when we would do um uh demonstrations at the at the French culinary all the time, like one of the things that I would always try to not do is make people feel bad about the choices that they were making when we would give them like three different samples, like try to make them feel bad about it. You know what I mean? I mean, some people can reliably choose garbage.
Like my my grandpa, you know, the the kind of one who was kind of a bit of a nightmare, could reliably taste jug wine uh when presented with jug wine and like 82 Bordeaux and reliably chose the jug wine, not just out of a out of a group, but as his favorite. You know what I mean? So like some bad rules. Yeah, well, kind of. And uh my feeling is is that he did it just to be a dick.
Like, in other words, like he, you know, it's more important for him to be a dick than it is for him to have something that's enjoyable. I really feel that that was what was going on in grand grandpa's head. But uh, you know, who knows? I can't ask him anymore because he's dead. Uh but when uh Nick comes on, uh Nick, the olive oil guy, maybe we can do a blind taste.
We should we're definitely gonna do a tasting people. Don't forget about and and uh Hassan, maybe we can pre-record some mouth noises to freak out some of our uh Oh god, no. So I did the 23andMe thing, and uh it says that I'm genetically less likely to be bothered by chewing noises. Completely wrong. Completely wrong.
Nastasi and I have had this discussion. I think we've even had it on air. When someone is cooking you dinner or lunch, or if somebody is working, do not get a crunchy snack and sit behind them making crunching noises into their freaking ears. Am I right, Sas? Yeah.
Or like Peter Kim when his wife was in the birthing tub in their home birth, he just pulled out a sandwich from a wrapper and was eating a sandwich next to her while she's like pushing. Like that was rude. That's that A, that's rude. And B, that's a hardcore thing to call out on the radio from somebody else's uh birth experience. That's uh I think he'd be okay with it.
Well, I mean, that's kind of his story to tell on that one right there. And like uh, so uh Peter Kim, you know, formerly Museum of Food and Drink, now has a a show. Uh you know, we had him on the air. He used to be known as Cooking Issue's favorite punching bag. But one thing we know about Peter Kim, habitual line stepper.
Man loves to step over a line. And that that is a line step right there. Well, but I'm saying you just are now the Peter Kim of today because you have stepped over a line by bringing up him eating a sandwich while uh during the you know childbirth situation. You have done the line step. Peter Kim is the kind of guy, is he's not dead.
Peter Kim is the kind of guy who you'll like you'll take something just up to the limit of acceptability, which we do how often? Constantly? Yeah. We're always like right at trying to stay right on that line, a little bit over. You take Peter right up to that line, he'll step way over and be like, Oh, I didn't see the line there.
I'm sorry. He's like way over the line. Habitual line stepper. You know what I mean? Yeah.
But I feel that like maybe talking about him, and also the man only will always eat a sandwich. The man stressed sandwich eats. Clearly, yes. You you know, the house would catch on fire, the smoke alarm would be going off, and he would open up his fridge to make a sandwich for the for the walk out because the man stress eats sandwiches and only sandwiches. Uh anyway, wow, hardcore.
What do you got, John? How about these last 10 minutes we get to some questions? Oh, wait, okay. So you don't want to hear about pretzels? We'll talk about pretzels at the end.
We are surely gonna talk about pretzels again. Yeah. The flour I bought for pretzels, amazing. Snavely, Snavely's Mill flour. You mentioned it last week on the show, yeah.
From but I I finally got my pretzel recipe dialed in. Fantastic. The reason it's good, soft flour, non cake. So should we some point somebody ask me a question about flour, and then I can go crazy on um why you should at least at once in your life buy soft wheat flour. Good one, not bleached, right?
And don't try to use it for cake, because that's not what it's for. In order to make a proper American high ratio cake, you need to have chlorinated or treated flour or add xanthan to it to increase the water holding capacity. Because the reason this flour is so good for pretzels is it's soft flour, has much less starch damage in it, not just lower protein, which means less bite on it when it goes in, but it also has uh um much less damaged starch, which means that in order to make a dough, you use much less water. So you're working with like 50, 52% hydration to make a pretzel dough with this soft flour, and you get a very good machining, i.e. rollable dough at very low hydrations, and then when it's baked out, um the texture is good for rising, it rises when it's baked out.
It doesn't have too much protein bite, so it just makes the best hard pretzel. It's also good for pies. Uh I could talk more about it, but that's that's all I'm gonna say. Uh uh is that is that it's okay, John? That's sufficient.
Yep. It's okay. Yep, we're good. Snavely's so cheap, so good. $12, $25 pounds.
Another $12 dollars to deliver it. Still under a dollar a pound. That is that's the way to go. Okay. Uh Jacob Minkus writes in.
Hey, hope y'all are gearing up to have a nice and relaxing holiday in New Year. Too late. Uh was yours relaxing? Anyone relaxing? Here and there.
A little bit. No? Not entirely. Yeah. Okay.
All right. Uh, I was curious if Dave has any classics in the field recommendations. We gotta start classics in the field again. I'll get in touch with Matt. Yeah, but we you want to do it, we can do it old style with with the call in, bring it like you know, with with the little classics in the field scream out.
Yeah. Yeah. We should do it again. Uh recommendations for butchery, specifically the breakdown, boning out uh of various animals. Breakdown and boning out.
That should be another song. As we have so many song titles in this uh in this episode um of various animals. Looking for something that I can reference while in the kitchen. Thanks much, and can't wait for my Sears All Pro Best Jacob. Okay, so I'm not an expert uh in um butchery.
In fact, the only real butchery books uh I own are the Adam Danforth books, which uh uh butchering poultry, rabbit, uh lamb, goat, and pork. Uh and uh his other one, butchering beef, and he has a new one out that came out. Those were all maybe eight, nine years ago, uh maybe even ten years ago now. And then he has a new one that came out a year or two ago on uh slaughtering and and and butchering chickens. His all go from kind of slaughter to breakdown.
Uh and you know, I I enjoy them, they're good books, but I I don't have the opportunity to slaughter uh pigs, so I can't say whether or not, you know, his suggestions for slaughtering a pig are good. And I think you're more interested in kind of butchery. Another weird thing is anytime I have butchers on, I kind of ask them about specific books, and butchers in general that I've spoken to get a little bit hinky about recommending books for some reason. Like you know what I'm saying? Have you noticed that, John?
It's like they're like, maybe it's because they rightly believe that you know you gotta go do a lot of cutting and apprenticing to kind of get it right. And I think that's probably accurate, but that doesn't mean that at home you don't want to just kind of read something, learn about it, and try it. Not that you're gonna become a great butcher. I know Nastasia hates it when someone tries to take over somebody else's job. Uh yeah, you hate that.
One book that I don't own that uh some people uh like is uh that's not I think about slaughter, but it's more about just straight butchery on beef only, is Carrie Underly's book, um, The Art of Beef Cutting, but I don't own it. So I don't I don't know. Uh do you own that, John? No, I don't. I will add uh River Cottage Meat Book.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hugh Fernsley Whittinghall. Yeah. What a name.
Yeah. Oh, he's British? Whoa, I couldn't guess that from the name. You know. Uh his name could be like Pip Pip Cheerio.
He could not have a more British name. Someone is saying the hog book by Jesse Griffiths is great, focuses on huntering and butchering wild pigs, but translates well to domestic. Yeah. Really? Okay, good.
The uh the Bull Moose cookbooks, aside from being like crazy misogynist and racist, but crazy in a very interesting mid-century way, has a lot of butchering stuff, but 90% of the stuff that I can verify by based on my own knowledge in that book is false. It's more of just like it's like the National Inquirer of cookbooks. You've read those, right, John? Yeah. Yeah.
Uh one book that I'm gonna say it's not about butchery, but I look at it again and again and again all the time. I'll just sit down in bed as I'm going to sleep and read it. Uh and don't get the Kindle version. I looked at the Kindle version online. It is garbage is the meat buyer's guide.
Uh and it covers beef, lamb, veal, pork, uh, and poultry, and it's put out by NAMP, the North American meat processors. What a what a thing, NAMP. Can you imagine? North American meat. You've seen this book, right, John?
It comes in a spiral. It it's like it's plasticized so that you can dip it in in uh in pig blood and it's still fine, so it's like great, and it's like spiral bound. And what it has in it is all of the retail cuts and where those retail cuts come from on animals. And uh I don't think it has a lot on on the trimming, but still just like looking at those retail cuts and where they come from and how they're graded. I'm just sorry, I'm pausing.
I'm thinking about the book in my head. And then when this morning when I went on Twitter, uh it's not on Twitter, on Amazon and did the look inside on our Kindle, I was like, oh, what a disappointment. What a sad, sorry disappointment. From Alexander Talgard, uh is it it's tailguard, isn't it? I forget.
Yeah. Yeah. Uh I have a little Christmas curiosity, too late. Uh, that I don't understand. In Norway, a traditional dinner is I'm gonna get this wrong.
Pinic pin pinajut. Pin pinicot? Pinnacot. What do you think? It's got a lot of slashes through O's and K's and J's together.
I don't know. But the translation is stick meat. Stick meat. Uh what's your favorite stick meat, John? Corn dog is pretty great.
Oh, I was thinking corn dog. What about you guys? So you guys corn dog people or more setay people or more shishkibob people? I mean, they're all delicious. Say for me.
Say you're sayate? I like that raw chicken we had. They the the the quote unquote sashimi that was done uh on the on the Tepanyaki thing. Was it really? Or are you just saying that to be ornery?
No, I I do. It is the one, like when I think of favorite stick meat, like something I can't do, that was like that took yeah. I you didn't like it? Yeah, I did. I mean, but I was still I think I prefer cooked chicken.
Yeah. I liked it. I enjoyed being there and having it. Yeah. Yeah.
Hasan, you got a favorite. More memory. Yeah, chicken memory. Sign, you got a stick meat for me? Um I don't know.
Like the call, damn thing. Siskebabs? Yeah, they're delicious. By the way, if anyone can help me out, in in Turkey, there's a kebab called testy kebab. It's not on a stick.
It's from Cappadocia. They load the meat and all the stuff into like this little, it's like a clay vase, and then they cap it with like aluminum foil and um and dough, and then they cook it inside the clay, and the clay's got a line around it. And then after it cooks, they bring it out and they almost like sabering, they go clack, clack, clack with a big old knife, and the top, the entire top shatters off like you're savoring a bottle of champagne, and then they boop, they pour it all out onto the plate and you eat it with like some sort of flatbread. I don't think you can get it here. Anyone finds a place you can get it, I will have it.
Uh okay. In this case, the stick meat doesn't mean that the meat is on the stick. What happens? I had to look it up because I'd never heard of this. Well, here's what Alexander says.
Individual lamb ribs are usually steamed traditionally over birch sticks in a big pot. So for f here's what they put water in the pot. You with me? Then they put sticks in the pot, birch, because I guess I got a lot of birch. And then on top of that goes the meat on top of the sticks in the pot, so that the that the meat is suspended above the water to steam by the sticks.
You with me? All right. So that's a stick meat uh for two and a half hours. A trick that is becoming more normal, especially amongst chefs in later years, is to use non-peeled almond potatoes. Now I had to look up an almond potato, but they're also known as mandal potatoes, which I guess mandel kind of sounds like almond, right?
Uh they're a small potato, not almond flavored, they're small. Uh to use almond potatoes instead of birch sticks, partially cover the potatoes in water. But no one seems to understand, and my question is why do these potatoes survive without this turning into mushy burst mess? According to some chefs, this works with any potato, but I have yet to hear any explanation for why it works. Uh also congratulations on the Indiegogo goal.
Okay. Uh so I had to look up, I said this potato because we don't have this potato in the US. Uh, but what's interesting is that according to uh the internets, the these potatoes are what's known as the flowery type, uh aka mealy type. So if you were to bake it and then push on it, it would fluff out like a like an Idaho russet does. And that shocks me because uh any potato that does that should burst when you cook it for too long.
Uh the main difference, and here's what I know about the science of this is that the the main difference uh between um potato varieties that has to do with genetics. So certain, you know, but it also has to do with how they're watered, uh you know, especially right before storage storage and how they're um stored, is the dry matter content. And the dry matter content of a potato can range anywhere from 16 to 25 percent. And the majority of stuff, obviously that's not dry matter, is water. So a potato that has a lot more water in it has a lot more space in between the starch granules.
The way that this is particular uh usually measured by people, people. People don't measure dry uh matter. They measure the specific gravity. So the specific gravity, potatoes with a very high specific gravity tend to be flowery, they tend to mash uh well, they tend to have much higher yield when you make potato chips. So pe French fries, potato chips are all made with very high specific gravity potatoes.
So the specific gravity of 1.08 or higher, right? And sometimes even up to 1.1, which is uh a dense potato. Uh boiling potatoes, right, have a lower specific gravity, like down uh 1.06 uh and below is a good boiling potato. And really the main difference is the size of the starch granules in them and how much they're packed. Because when you heat a potato, the starch is going to expand as uh water is sucked into it and they will uh puff up.
Potato starch especially tends to puff as it more than any other starch, uh absorbs and puffs out, and then also is very fragile as starches go, which is why when you overmash potatoes, they turn gluey, which is why uh they can burst and leak out into soups and stuff like this. In a boiling potato, a low gravity potato, you can boil it for a long time because as the starch uh expands out, it doesn't expand enough to rupture because there's more room around the starch granules for expansion. Does that make sense? Yeah. So in a low gravity boiling potato, uh, the structure of the potato itself is maintained over long boiling periods, even though um, you know, just be just by dint of the fact that they stay structurally sound, they don't self-rupture.
Uh so one thing that might be happening is if you put the potatoes into cold and you steam it up gently, it's possible that you're strengthening um the pectin in the potato uh by bringing it up slowly. Uh and a small potato would um tend to temper through to the same temperature. Maybe it gets more protected. There could be something going on there, but but I'd be interested if you write back to me if you can tell me whether or not they're a waxy-style potato or a uh flowery-style potato. He says they're delicious, perfectly cooked, and not mushy or bursted.
But I mean, in general, are those potatoes a waxy potato or are they a flowery potato? I'm sure he'll let me know in a second. Uh from from Coleman. What? Last question.
I can bust this out. Okay. Yeah, that's the last question. Well, uh, I made Dave Chang's bosom recipe for Christmas. It was delicious today of, but not so great leftover.
Definitely had that warmed over flavor. Any tips for avoiding this when using pork shoulder leftovers? So uh warmed over flavor is an oxidation phenomenon. And so uh you can either vacpack, if you don't have a vac pack, another way to do it is uh if your meat is sauced and it's like stored in sauce. This is why, like um pork dishes that are in like gravies or pork dishes like uh like like pork chili or stored in a liquid, they can last a long time, right?
Or stored in fat, they can last a long time. It's when not like rettes stay good forever, right? Because oxygen's not getting to them. So the problem with your bosom it most likely is that you wrapped just the pork piece and it wasn't covered, oxygen got to it, and uh on rewarming it was a warmed over uh effect. Um they're more mealy than waxy, the potatoes.
So perhaps it's an intermediate variety, because there are intermediate varieties. Uh you know, so maybe it's a combination of waxiness. I mean, if you start cold, maybe it's a combination of waxiness and the size of the potatoes allows the um there to be a little bit of enzyme action before I don't know if there's a rate uh like a rate reaction of how fast they're they're brought up. I have to think about it. Do do uh I have to think about it uh some more.
Um I'm just gonna put this out there for people to respond to us, okay? So I'm not answering these questions. Quinn, who we had on the show uh with his ice cream book, he wants to know now that Bend to Table is gone. Uh send us in what you guys think are interesting sources for shelf-stable food products, especially interesting heirloom grams for milling into flour. I mean, Bredtopia and other places like that are good for that.
Looking for United States because uh, well, that looking for United States. Uh also curious about American-based sellers of single origin cocoa beans. So uh I only know the old, you know, chocolate alchemists supply, which is still a place that I would look at for that. But guys, send in your stuff for that. Maybe we'll make a list on Patreon of interesting sources for people uh to go and put it up there.
And uh last uh Sargon wrote in uh and he wants to know about good vegetarian or vegan cookbooks if they take into account modernist techniques for vegetable preparation even better. Uh well, Nastasi and I always recommend anything by Michael Natkin. True or false, Nastasia. Love, love, yeah. Also, you should check out Amanda Cohen's dirt candy book.
We had her on uh the other day. And it I could not find it in the uh in the United States. But uh Eddie Shepard has like uh a micro or I don't know how what happened during the pandemic, uh, called the Wall Garden Restaurant and does exclusively not exclusive, but modernist uh uh plant-based uh food. And he has a cookbook. You can go to his website, uh Eddie D D I E uh uh Shepherd, but I was not able to find it in uh in the US.
I'll also add on uh Brooks Hudley's superiority cookbook. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yep. On vegetables.
Yep. Jeremy Fox. Yeah. Not on vegetables by Peterson. No.
Which I have I read that one? His sauce cookbook, Peterson's sauce cookbook, is like I mean, like Classic in the field. Classic in the field. Uh, did we even did we do that as a classics in the field once? Not since I've been here.
The original one. The remake is great, whatever, but like the original one back in the day when he was like basically nowadays we just reduce cream down we just we do we reduce cream that's what we do now and then people I guess stop doing that so that the reup of it doesn't have all those reduced cream sauces you know what reduced cream sauces are delicious yeah the delicious uh all right so apparently uh John's telling me that's all I have time for uh so we'll get to the non who wait we have David Wonderich on please send in cocktail stuff uh I'll try to get to some of these other questions John has suggested we'll see what the Patreon people think that I should reserve a section uh a small section of time we have to figure out the beginning or the end when we have guests on maybe we knock out a couple of questions when we have guests on then go into our normal stuff just like hit the questions and then go in what do you think or do we save it for the end? Tell the guests to get lost and get them at the end. Or the guests can start in at like 15 right or something. Yeah that's true.
Like 1215 right but then we have to get out of I I we I have to get out of my habit of going on like infinity pre-tangents like we won't we won't be able to have this conversation about uh Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore anymore. Or Robert Plant and Chris Cornell. Robert Plant and Chris Cornell yeah I I am shocked that no one here came out for Chris Cornell by the way what I can say Cornell that was like 10 seconds. All right okay yeah soundgarten so good cooking issues
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