Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, News Dance Studios. Not joined as usual with Nastasia Hammer Lopez. Even though she is a grown woman, she is helping a friend of hers move. How you doing, Stas?
You're somewhere on the side. Oh my God. I am good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Grown woman. Grown woman. Uh little known fact. Uh back in the day, Nastasia's thing used to be, will you help me move? And then her favorite thing to do would be to rent the tiniest zip car possible to move all of her crap.
And there's also, you know, Nastasia, like most of us, like most of us, Nastasia loves, loves like a fifth or sixth floor walk-up. She's like, is it basically illegal to walk up that many stairs? Let's get my friends to move. Yeah. That's that's Nastasia.
So I guess this is karma. I don't know why we're paying for your karma, but there you go. You know what I mean? I hope that I pay for my own karma and that nobody else pays for my karma. Anyway, uh also joined uh Rock in the Booth here.
We got uh Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing I'm doing great, man. I like that. We gotta get that.
That's like uh some sort of 70s, like sorry, the bad mute finger. Oh, I like that. Bad mute finger. Oh my god, what a great band. What do they cover?
Is that like a that's that's a sound garden cover band, Bad Mutefinger, right? It's like right next to the suck button, so yeah. Yeah, yeah, sweet. All right. Uh behind me we have again this week uh John Hool.
How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. How's uh how's uh Chef and treating you over at the at the Temperance?
It's great. Having fun. Saw Sargon the other day, one of our listeners. And then another purse, another, I didn't catch your name, Patreon listener, but I was gonna give you Twinkies, and you left like right before I was supposed to give you the Twinkies. Is it a fancy Twinkie?
It was like a test on a Twinkie. I don't know. I'm not getting the batter right yet. And I also don't think the Twinkie pan itself is very good. I have a Twinkie.
I have several Twinkie pans. It's it's you can see where it's browning in weird places and staying pretty pale in other places. Yeah. Yeah. Uh here's another thing about Twinkies.
The actual Twinkie, like I love them, but they're not good. Maybe the problem is that. The Twinkie is not good? Twinkie is not actually a well-made product. If you had never had a Twinkie before and I hand you a Twinkie, you'd be like, why is this cake so gummy on the outside and yet so dry in the middle?
And the goop is fine, but it's not like what you would make yourself. My point is that I love Twinkies, but if someone handed you a Twinkie and you'd never had a Twinkie before, you'd be like, come back to me when you fix the cake. Ah, maybe. I don't know, dude. I love Twinkies.
They're great. I also like Twinkies. What's the most you've ever eaten in one shot? Man, I don't know. Maybe like five or six.
Ten. Jesus. You know why? They come in a 10 box. Yeah.
So I'm not coming into you as a Twinkie hater here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? All right. Uh, in California, rocking the Discord, we got uh we got my man Jackie Molecules.
How you doing? I'm very good. Ten Twinkies at once sounds really disgusting. Yeah, that's true. You know what, you know what I washed it down with to make it even grosser.
Mountain dew. Mountain Dew. Oh no, I love I love myself some Mountain Dew. And by the way, it was Diet Mountain Dew back in the day. No, no.
Diet tonic water, a liter of Schwepp's diatonic water. Ten Twinkies and a liter of uh Schwef's diet tonic water. And I was learning physics. It was the summer times, and I was taking a summer class on physics, and that's the but my physics teacher, his daily lunch was and stank up the whole room with one of those giant tins of kippered fish. You know what I'm talking about?
So we would be talking about physics, and he would like bust out his weird, skinny tall dude, and he would bust out his kipper snacks and be like, we're like, oh man, with the kippers, with the kippers again. They're good though. I do like kipper snacks. So uh I'm gonna introduce our guest so that uh he can uh whether weigh in on whatever is gonna go on. But we have uh do we have John's Sommelier?
So there's also somebody else on the phone, too. Oh really? Who did I miss? Oh, Quinn, Jesus! Well, he's coming in, but he's Quinn Quinn Futur, is actually the star of the show today because all the way from Canada, he shipped us a care package of Canadian treats that we're gonna be tasting alongside uh our other special guest.
Sorry, Quinn. My mind is uh fried because it's the UN General Assembly here, and like I thought I wasn't gonna make it to the studio in time. Uh and we have a lot to get through. But uh today's in studio guest is uh Virgil Sam Miguel, who is the Sommelier. John, what do you think?
What do you when people say Somalia does it bend you or are you okay with it? I d I mean it bends me a little bit, but you know it is what it is. Give me this give me the full French Sommelier. Oh yeah, one more time. Sommelier.
Oh yeah. All right. So uh Virgil is a I'm just gonna say Som, so I don't have to worry about what the first manager, yeah. What's better? I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, there's no there's no like international, like uh there's no like international uh society of beverage directors. Exactly, true. You know what I mean? You're not people don't take tests to see whether they rate as a top-end beverage director. That's just like, yeah, I want to give you a title.
How about beverage director? Did you order the cases of Pepsi? Beverage director. Anyway. Okay, fair.
Um I mean, whatever. Whatever. It has its place. Uh so anyway, so maybe you can explain to me, Virgil, uh, why the place is called uh temperance, even though obviously it is not a temperance. Why or Ann, why don't you tell me some of the philosophy behind uh Yeah.
Well, I th what this will based from my from my boss, John, he says that uh after pandemic, he they assume that people will be uh well, temperance just means moderation. Uh it has nothing to do with uh temperance movement in uh back in the prohibition. All right, so it's not related to like Carrie Nation and No, no, nothing American temperance. It's just basically uh just a moderation. Like they assume that people after the pandemic will do everything in moderation.
I it's still kind of a contradict to like hundred wines by the glass. And uh that hasn't been my experience. Exactly. People do things in moderation, yeah, after the pandemic. Welcome back to uh so Virgil, uh well, real quick just so people can get so you started in coffee and then moved to wine?
Yeah. I was in coffee business for well, I always been in hospitality uh industry, like I work as uh a housekeeper uh in uh in Aspen, Colorado. Oh my god, what was that like? The people suck, right? Well it was it was not the people, but I mean, come on.
Yeah. I I seen like it's just crazy. They're not connected to reality with the amount of money. No reality connection. No, I love Aspen.
It's like uh I'm I'm like a semi-local though. I never go there, I know a lot of people and live in the Aspen. But I what's it what's it like working with people who are completely disconnected from reality? It's you learn a lot from them in a way that you're kind of curious, uh what they do for a living, how how but but some of the very nice, really nice people are very uh uh down to earth. And you don't often see them like bragging or hear them bragging about stuff.
You will just like eavesdrop and like hear them you know talking about their private plane stuff. Yeah. I asked one guest uh call when I use uh work in a coffee shop in Aspen. I asked one guest if uh uh what airlines they took. He said, No, we have our own jet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no biggie. Exactly. No biggie.
That's just like us, right, Stas? Yeah. So yeah. But I I started as uh working as a housekeeper, uh uh working as a bartender, uh in Aspen, uh in New York as well, and I work as uh in the coffee shop uh for like 10 years because I I like the the craziness, the crazy science behind coffee. So what's the difference making coffee at altitude?
Oh, it's uh we have to change the uh uh the machine. Uh we have to calibrate it almost every three hours because it's it changed a lot. Temperature affects the cost. Also so dry up there. It's so dry, yeah.
Yeah, what's the relative humidity up there? Like 11, 10, 11%, something crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. It's I actually just did a whole bunch of studies on uh flower moisture and uh relative humidity that no one's gonna care about, but I'll maybe I'll put it on Twitter later.
Um so yeah, so okay, so so how you're in Aspen for like 10 years then? No, on and off. Uh probably three years, roughly. Yeah, okay, Jesus. Yeah, yeah.
Uh I I I've said on the air before the only time I've ever been winded doing bartending was when I flew into Aspen and had to ten bar at the top of the mountain that night. Oh my god, it like takes it out of you like going up to heights because I'm not used to it. It's insane, yeah. I'm a lowlander. All right.
So then you moved uh where? Here to New York? New York. Uh I worked in some restaurant back in 2009, and uh uh I was always fascinated with wine, but it's it's got a hard uh business to get into. It's you need to study a lot, you need to know a lot of people, good connections, uh, and you need to drink a lot of wines.
And it took me a while to really get into break into the like business. Yeah, it is kind of closed off in that way too. Also, like uh I found that somehow's are the hardest group of people to hang with when you go out because they just can take down oceans of liquid. They're just like bartenders, I mean, it's just nuts, like it's just crazy. Yeah, I think we build up these uh tolerance in how bad one thing about similar, most similar that I know don't like shots.
They don't drink shots. Uh why would you though? Shots aren't actually a I'm sorry, I'm gonna I'm alienated first of all anyone from Colorado already today. I take it back, whatever it is. And also, like I'm about to alienate like everybody else, but like I don't like shots either, man.
I I don't like that. I'm not a fan of shads. What's the point? Like I will drink enough. If I want to get drunk, I will drink enough over the course of the night.
You know what I mean? I don't need that. It's very dangerous, too. Yeah, it's just not uh this is why I think every first of all, the the tradition of shots towards it's always at the end of the night, which is the worst time to have shots, right? This is why I think every bar should have a potted plant near the bar somewhere, so that people like me can just dump their shots into the potted plant without looking rude.
You know? I mean, it has to be a very alcohol tolerant plant. But all right, so now I have a couple questions for you. So Jackie Molecules, who's uh rocking up in uh LA over there, like you know, enjoying whatever's happening in LA. Uh he thinks that if he was on a first date, I'm getting your opinion, Virgil.
He's on a first date, and she brings to his house a bottle of twelve dollar California Merlot that he should just be like, this date's over, goodbye. What do you think? Oh that that's a very uh that depends who the person is, I guess that you can because like for me, if you're gonna bring me a wine, like uh you get a tubak chalk, I I will not die. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yes, yes. Yeah, it's a few days ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh I will not say like no to it. I I I will I will still drink it because I uh that's just respectful to someone.
Uh I mean, Jack, not a snob. Yeah, I I am not a snob at all. I'm completely opposite. Um drank the wine. You know?
Yeah, yeah. All right, all right, right. And uh secondly, I need to hear this story before another week goes by because uh, you know, we won't talk about it. So Nastasia is in this on this island off the coast of Sicily. Am I correct, Stas?
Yes. Yeah. And someone was cooking, right? She's not out at a restaurant, and they s they served you a horse. How was it?
Oh my god. Uh it was very irony, like incredibly irony and chewy, and it was like um shredded horse. Like tacos? Yeah. Yes.
Like that, kind of. It was a horse like on bread. Horse on bread. Like had a flavor. Horse on bread, yeah.
Yeah. All right. Um, but the flavor was just like like almost like liver. It was b I did not like it. I really didn't like it.
Plus, there were horses standing like a couple feet away. So you're like looking at them while you're eating them. Did you say, hey buddy? When you were eating it, is that what you did? No.
No. Also the restaurant didn't have a bathroom, and when I said I needed to use the bathroom, they said, Oh, just go by the horses. And so I went by the horses. It's the circle of the poo. Right?
They they eat it, then you eat them. It's just goes around. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's crazy. Yeah. And uh, see.
Yeah. Yeah. Any any other interesting food stories from uh from that island? No, that's enough. Sounds like an old horse.
Like a lot of animals when they get old. I mean, I'm I've heard horse meats very dark, right? But a lot of animals when they get older get more and more kind of that uh irony, like livery tasting stuff. Uh John, you're a you're a francophile, so you've uh you've uh taken down some uh what is it? Sh shovosh?
What is it? Yeah, cheval. Yeah, you've taken down some of that stuff in the in the past. What are your thoughts on it? Did Nastasia just have bad horse?
I think so. I don't know. I've had it as steaks before in Belgium. Yeah. And it's they're pretty tasty.
I'd would you know if I go back and it's on the menu, I'd probably get it again. So what you're saying. It's a little more minerally and irony. Are you are you saying Nastasia had the equivalent of like deep fried gator, like whatever the Sicilian equivalent of some bayou weirdo who just like shot, cut apart an alligator and threw it in their freezer and then sold it to Nastasia and Piper. She had the equivalent of that in Sicily, whatever that equivalent is.
I guess. The the equivalent of like, you know, the guy on the Connecticut River with a tire fire and a handle of uh Jack Morgan, uh Captain Morgan's. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
I guess. All right, fine. I like that. I like I like uh I like seeing whatever the the loc, you know, the local folks are really like. Not the not the sanitized version.
I want the you know the actual version, you know. The the fewest teeth possible is the most accurate version of wherever you're going, you know? Yep, totally um. Okay. So uh since we have uh limited time here, why don't we why don't you guys organize the tasting and I'll tell a little bit of uh cause because uh Virgil brought some wines to taste and Quinn sent us this crazy care package, but I don't know how we're gonna combine these stuff.
We should save all the acidic stuff for later, right? Uh so John, why don't you figure out like what we're gonna like what we're gonna pair with what? And I'll just mention Bagel Fest real quick. I was at the Bagel Fest this weekend, uh, and uh it was uh much more mellow affair than the very first bagel fest. The first bagel fest was like huge like crazy, like overrun with people, but I was a judge, so I had to eat like 14 different bagels.
And by the way, I apologize in advance. Every time we do a well, the one time we did a wine tasting show, it was half the people's favorite show ever, and half the people's least favorite show of all time, including John. John hated that show, right, Stas. She might not be able to talk, she's on the show. John hated it.
John hated that show. I didn't even know John. He listened to it. He listened to it and he was like, Oh yeah, that show sucked. Yeah.
Now that he's on it, I'm sure he'll like it. Anyone that gets a taste of wine is gonna be fine. But this is not a rock and roll wine show. It's not a rock and roll wine show. It's still just food-related.
Yeah, food related. Uh anyway, so at Bagel Fest, there are a lot of really cool new uh bagel places uh that are coming out. They're doing a newer style of bagel, like very chewy, crunchy, or like very good crust. But I see a lot of people with lighter interiors, people using interesting flowers. If you're in New Haven, check out Olmo, or if you are anywhere where Pop Up Bagel is uh is doing something, go check out Pop-Up Bagel.
And uh the weeded people, the pizza folks out in Brooklyn are now making a bagel, and it's definitely worth going and trying their that's a complete sourdough bagel. The person who's using the flour that I think is the most flour that I think is the most interesting are the Olmo folks. Uh Craig, what's his name? I don't know. In uh in uh New Haven.
But if you're anywhere near New Haven, go check out uh Umo's bagels. You've had it, John? I have not, but I know of them. Yeah. Of that place.
The big their bagel is really good, and it's uh I don't want to like necessarily give out, although he'll tell you all of his secrets. I think we should just have him on the show at some point because his bagel is completely non-traditional from soup to nuts. He's using warthog, uh the wheat he's using his warthog. He's using an 82 uh percent extraction flour, and eighty-two to eighty seven percent extraction flour off of a stone grime with a sift is my absolute favorite style of flour to use. And he's the only person I know in the bagel in in the bagel community.
Um, I'm sure there are others, but he's the one I know of that's using it, and he's also doing some other interesting stuff. So whatever. What of a guys uh curated our tasting now? No? I think so.
I mean, I showed him what we've got some virtual. You want to start with uh the hickory stuff? All right, so we take the we taste the wine, we take a question. Okay, we taste the wine, we take like as we're tasting the wine, we take a question. Does this sound fair so we get through some of these questions?
Yeah. All right. So what are we doing? So first we're gonna have to use this diamond uh variety from Chinning Daughters in Long Island. The grapefield sells from Finger Lakes, but uh winery is in uh Hamptons.
Okay. And has New York o been able to overcome the pro the value proposition problem, or it's just much more expensive to make wine per bottle in New York than it is in California, so it's hard to get a good deal here, or they haven't fixed that problem yet. I think they already fixed that. Because they're a more reasonable price now in uh uh wine in in New York than California. Uh Napa Valley land itself is very expensive compared to uh Finger Lakes.
Right. Say like uh Paul Havj just bought a property in a finger lakes as well. Uh because it's it's cheaper and the weather's nicer. It used to be that the val like years ago, like a decade ago, it was like the value proposition on New York wasn't as high because their economies of scale hadn't reached where they needed to reach yet. You know, so you think that they've fixed that in fact it's better than California now?
Yeah. Value wise. Exactly. Okay, interesting. And yeah, I think the uh the the number of uh uh winemaker grew us well.
Don't you have a glass? Oh yeah, yeah. What am I? I'm a beast? I'm just give me food.
I'm I'm I'm uh I'm King Chuck E. Cheese the third just brushing away the pen on the desk. Did you guys see that? When Charles like became king and he had this like pen thing on the desk and he's like away with this. Missed that.
Yeah, it was awesome. I mean I don't really care about the royals, but that was a hilarious, hilarious thing. All right. So describe this, describe this, uh describe it real quick again. So it's uh it's uh It's a diamond variety.
Diamond is a New York grapes, basically. It's a hybrid of uh Concord and Iona. Iona is Oh it's amazing. Yeah, it's uh it's your to New York it it doesn't really uh it's kind of like you only find it in New York. It's kinda hard to grow somewhere else.
Is this picture from the Grapes of New York? Is it one of the old you know that book, The Grapes of New York? Uh I'm not sure. I'm not gonna be a little bit more than a lot of people. UP Hedrick, yeah.
Look well, I'll look it up. I'll look up that picture and I'll see if it's from the Grapes of New York, but it's one of the greatest well, you know, it's one of the top six f New York's fruit books, but that's not saying a lot because they're all from that one series. Yeah, it's great. All right. Diamond is very grapey, very.
It's got a fire almost smell like that. How much the bottle is this? And it's bubbly. Oh, it's uh about twenty dollars a glass. So we're by the glass bar, uh so everything's priced by the glass.
Right. But if someone's gonna buy the bottle, like you just multiply it to five. All right. Basically, yeah, yeah. No, I meant I meant like in a store.
Is it not available in the store? No, it is available in the store. You can actually go to Shining Daughters in in Hamptons and uh can get a bottle of these uh super like 25 maybe roughly. So it's super foxy, so any European, if any European can hear me, they would hate the hell out of this. They would hate it.
Yeah. But you know, the muscat is kind of the same grapey notes as well. Yeah, but they they have a visceral internal reaction to that smell. They're like, ugh. Exactly.
Yeah. I think they're wrong. Yeah. I don't think this is cloying or effed up. What do you think, John?
You're half European there. What do you think? No, I I like this a lot. You're half a euro. Also lightly bubbly, it's that's bet not uh about like 10% alcohol on this one.
So it's sort of like breakfast wine. Right. Right. So it's got like it's got does it have a little acetic in the back or no? A little acetic in the back.
What are your thoughts on acetic in in wine? You're you're I think it works okay in this one, but like in general, acetic worries me a little bit, but acid is it's a very important uh compound of wine. It's uh serve as a uh uh preservative as well. That's why a wine is higher acids, often good for aging. Uh right.
But I mean there's a difference between like a malik or like uh taric or lactic and acetic, right? So like you know, like of like any sort of like acetic aroma. Like I know there's been some, especially you know, in a natural wine. There's been oh you mean that kind of like EA uh volatile acidity, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh the kind of a little bit.
There's not a lot here, but there's some, right? So you're okay with a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Especially, I guess in this style, it would work, like, whereas it wouldn't work in I don't know.
I don't know. Yeah. But like it's it's it's brings some uh uh complexity in wine. All right. So Justin Freud asks, uh I'm sure there's a long paper with a definitive answer, but what causes the dry mouth in quotes, scare quotes?
My wife calls them scare quotes. I think that's what editors call them. Do you hear that term scare quotes? Scare quotes. Scare quotes, yeah.
So it's like dry mouth. So you're supposed to put quotes around it and supposed to make it look scary. Oh, okay. Scare quotes. So like editors frown on the scare quotes, but I use them sometimes, but not even to make people scared, just to be like, I don't mean this, but this is what people say.
But of course, now I'm not allowed to say this is what people say anymore because of our cultural experience with how that works now. Uh anyway, but what causes the dry mouth feeling when drinking red wine? I've always attributed it to tannins, but I honestly have no clue. Uh, and if the first part of this doesn't have an answer, what does it mean for a wine to be tannic? I mean, uh, so do you have a a point of view on on tannins?
Yeah, tannins is uh a penolic compound of wine. So you have the anthocyanins that gives a uh a collar and you have the tannin that gives structure, basically, that's directly responsible for dryiness on your mouth. It's the feeling of astringency kind of in your mouth. Uh the reason why that happens is because tannin binds with protein. So once you have the you drink the wine, it's uh immediately combined bind with the protein in your mouth.
Uh and when you speed the the uh the the wine, you will see a lot of like solidified kind of like mucus almost looks like in the in uh bucket. Sell it Virgil sell it exactly well because of that so it's uh it's a tannin it's uh it's uh compound that's very important in wine it's an antioxidant as well uh it's uh portecular wine so wine that high in tannin tends to demand food like you when you're drinking wine at very high in tannin you need food for that or you need to age it a little bit more all right and uh and uh John what are we eating with uh with our channing daughters uh uh the ricadon faccio what no no no not at the restaurant although that's interesting what are we eating right now what's Canadian snack all right uh pass me the hickey hickory so this is a Canadian take on Andy Cap fry but with smoke flavor smells like it looks like it looks like a smoky handicap. You guys have all had handicap fries right you guys know what I'm talking about. Joe Joe can have some of these Joe you can have some of these right so I'm gonna I'm gonna you guys chew while I talk and then I'm gonna and then I will go back and stay away from the micro people will threaten to murder us. So um you should uh take uh Justin Freud take a like a wine that has a lot of skin contact same grape with a lot of skin contact with like red what I mean it's not skin tech I mean like for red wine and then a white wine made from the same grape and you can see because one the drying stuff comes from the skins which is where all of the polyphenols are or taste things like tea but in your mind you have to separate the bitterness because tannins aren't bitter.
They're just that thing that binds with your mouth, like Virgil was saying. So what's a good what's a good grape tan and not tannin, white to red, same grape. What's a good wine they should uh do a side by side on just to see the effect of the skin's tannins? Apino. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they're yeah, they're lighter though. Yeah, what's like a super tanning? So if you never if you never had a baga, try baga, which I have actually here. Uh baga is very tannic uh wine. Uh Carbon is well.
Depends, of course, where it's coming from, but uh they tend to be high in tanning. That's why they they're good for aging. Right. So yeah, so just try one that's white and one that's red, same grape, tannic, not tanning. And you can see what the tannins are, right?
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That is like uh I thought you were gonna make like a same grape from like okay. You know who makes a deep a good white zin? Have you had the uh Turley's white zin?
I just had it for the first time. It's good, dude. It's dry, it's good. You know what I mean? Laughing at me, John.
Well, that's who we spend so much time with that sker the skernnik, right? Christina Turley, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But so they have a white zen that's like really not that expensive. It's like $30 in the store, right? And uh and it's good.
Then you could taste that against one of their like monster fruit bomb giant was that threat, like white zincel? No. Oh no, the dry white. Yeah, it's dry, it's uh, you know, I don't know, I don't remember. It's not blisteringly dry, but it's like dry, and it's uh you know, got a light color to it because you know because it's freaking Zinfandel.
Exactly. Yeah, I I like I like Sinfandel, uh a good Sinfandel. But uh tanning also can can be coming from uh the seeds, the stem or the even the oak. Yeah. Can contribute tanning uh tannin or yeah.
So if you are gonna do a white versus a red, make sure you get an unoaked one, steel tank only. Now listen, uh, I'm gonna try this off uh off the thing. What do we think of the hickory sticks? Enjoyable. I liked it.
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Oh yeah. Can we show the the bag in the camera so everyone can see?
Yeah, I'm for that. I use a lot of hickory, I use a lot of hickory powder. Quinn, you look you're a fan of the hickory sticks. Uh actually that was one of my dad's selections. Oh, all right.
All right. All right. I mean, which ones, John, are we gonna have the actual Hawkin cheesies with? Because that's the real I don't know. That's the Canadian question.
All right, so what's the second one we're gonna have? Second wine we're gonna have. Second one we're gonna have is another one from Finger Lakes. This is a Riesling. The reason why I bought this Riesling because there are a lot of a misconception about Riesling, that's always sweet.
But this Riesling is 2019 vintage from Fingerlakes as well by Nathan K. Uh it's really dry. Is this one um thanks? Is this one completely unoxidized? Because if it is, I have a test.
I have a test for you to do later at the end. And oxidize, yeah. Oh, yeah, okay. Good. You're gonna like this test.
I think Harold McGee says that I'm not right. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. All right.
So wait, you say Nathan for you? Nathan K. Oh, Nathan K. Nathan K uh is an amazing uh winemaker. Uh who's from Finger Lakes.
So after like I think studying walking abroad and came back in Finger Lace and made uh his wine. This is a very dry Riesling. It doesn't have these uh the petrol, the T D N on Riesling. No, but you know what's weird? I've always associated that kind of body in the mid-palate on Riesling with that kind of petrolly thing, but it has that body, but not the other thing.
That's weird, right? So I guess it's two different compounds that cause that. But you know how like there's a almost a thickness to read like a body in the back? Like uh I don't know how to describe. What do you think, John?
What's your what are your thoughts? It's good. I don't know. I'm terrible at describing it. Jeez Louise, man.
Tastes like fermented grape juice. You taste like fermented grape juice. Well, so this uh this question, and you what are we gonna eat with this while I read Sargon's question? I realize you're an orange wine bar. So this not only orange wine.
Not only orange wine. I realize you're an orange wine bar, so this question may uh not be as welcome. I understand uh almost, if not all wines use a sulfuring agent. People believe that sulfuring agent is a thing that gives them headaches. I'm curious if you consider giving people gel capsules, a la MSG of said compound, uh, one real and then two placebo and seeing if they get a headache or not.
It could be a fun gimmick. Uh and second, I realize you're not supposed to add a lot of sulfur to natural wine to halt fermentation. I've got to imagine this leads to a lot of spoilage and some amount of inconsistent product. You can say that right, Sargon. That's why old folks don't like natural wine and young folks do, right?
I don't know. That's the that's the uh, what's it called? The uh what's that? Remember when Fabulous and Jeremiah came on, John? Yeah.
And that was the argument we had is like, I'm old. So I yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um why don't natural winemakers employ other pasteurization methods such as lighter radiation?
Uh these are as natural as the sun, although doing it in a bottle may be difficult. I gotta imagine doing it in as thin a film as possible. And uh I uh Sargon, you should go read sulfite concentration and the occurrence of headaches in young adults, a prospective study uh from I believe tw like around 2017 to 2019. It is available online without a paywall, so you can check it out. And their conclusion is in our group of subjects, sulfite concentration in wine, is related to the risk of developing headaches in individuals who are susceptible to wine-induced headaches.
And the methods were with uh well, they actually did it with wine, but they did it uh by doping it with sulfates or not. But the problem is is that you can taste the sulfides sometimes. Anyway, what are your thoughts, Virgil? My thought is most of the headache uh uh not directly uh because of the sulfides, it's because of the hydration. When you drink wine, you it's a very uh refreshing drink, especially especially white wine.
Uh so you forgot to like drink water and uh so often the headache is from the hydration. Uh sulfites in that we use sulfites as well, it's it's uh it's a byproduct of fermentation. Uh wine when you ferment it, it's produced sulfites. Uh it's about like 10 uh mg milligrams per like a liter. Uh and the recommended, I believe the limit in America is about 350 if I'm not mistaken.
Uh and we use about like 30 to 50 only, so very low sulfites only that we use to to protect it's it's a preserve preservative in a way. I mean, there are some people that I think don't measure it and jack the sulfites, and I do know that some people have actual like pretty hardcore reactions to sulfites. Some people are very sensitive with sulfites, and that is uh it's uh I I'm not saying yeah. It's valid. So John had a taste with this, I'm not sure why.
Ketchup potato chip. Well, but very acidic. Can I give give how about how about one of the um how about one of the toffees to clear the mouth? Yeah, yeah, just pass one of that. So the uh so Quinn, your Canadian pot uh first of all, I I hope everyone who's listening knows that potato chip manufacturers change the flavors of their um of their products from place to place.
So like as you travel the world, you should get roasted chicken potato chips in every country you go to because the flavor is gonna change slightly from location to location. And that's one of the ones I like to test is roasted roasted chicken potatoes chips. Um I had a really good one in Senegal. Senegalese roast pot roast chicken potato chips were pretty on point. Um and also you should taste you should every country you go to you should buy bullion cubes because the bullion cubes also taste different from country to country because they make them for whatever the local uh kind of culture is.
So back to ketchup potato chips. I'm assuming that Quinn that the ketchup potato chips that you've sent us from Canada, I think they taste different from the ketchup potato chips I've had here. They're I would say more tomato-y. What do you guys think about the ketchup potato chips? Yep, more tomato-y.
Not as ketchupy as I thought they'd be. Oh. Do you know what? Okay. So do you know what's a more tomato-y U.S.
ketchup? Is Sir Kensington's is a more tomato-y ketchup. So if you're if like if you have a gripe with them, it's actually because their ketchup is more tomato-y than the one, you know, than Heinz, the one that, of course, as Wesley uh Willis said, Heinz. America's favorite ketchup. All right, I'm gonna clear out my palate with this.
Uh and let me ask Wait, wait, wait, wait you just said Wesley Willis, like as in the guy from Chicago. Mm-hmm. Who headbuts everyone? No, back when he was alive. Right, yeah, of course.
Yeah. Did you get headbutted by him? I wish. I never got to meet him. Yeah, I know.
I mean, um, he died. So he died in 2003, right? I forgot. 2002. I didn't get turned on to him until like nine until like 2000, 2001, after Napster.
So I only got turned on to him like right, I think, before he died. Well, didn't like uh Drag City do some like uh archive collective of his works and stuff like that. I don't know. I never had I had a CD or 45. I have a strange man.
I have a zillion Wesley Willis songs, and the Dax and I love listening to the Jen hates it, right? But the fact of the matter is that one of the problems with Wesley, so Wesley Willis was he was schizophrenic, and a lot of the times he lived on the street, he did amazing artwork. You should look at Wesley Willis's uh artwork, he's basically an outsider artist. Not basically Wesley Willis isn't was an outsider artist. And he also did this music, so he had this Casio or whatever it was, and he would play the standard beats on the Casio, like bing ding bing like that.
And then he would do these, he had a very set structure to his songs. And so like a lot of people thought that you know that those of us that listen to Wesley Willis listen to him kind of to make fun of him, right? But the fact of the matter is is that there is a real genius to Welly W Wesley Willis's work. And so, while I'm sure there are some people who are listening to it, like ha ha, this is crap. That's not the way I listen to it.
You know what I mean? Like, I um I appreciate the guy's work. You know what I mean? And so like the structure is, you know, he'll tell a very matter-of-fact story, then he'll have like a weird chorus that goes with it. Then there'll be a long, long bridge where he just like goes up and down, like sometimes chromatic, sometimes not, on you know, his Casio.
Then he'll come back and he'll just say an advertising phrase. You know, Heinz, it's America's favorite ketchup, and it's over. That's the song. And he, when you in when you were introduced to him, he headbutted you in the head. Which was a um uh his one of his favorite things to do.
Mm-hmm. And you were very lucky if you were headbutted. Yeah, and so he he had all these stories where like most of most of his violent songs are where he's positing violence against um the voices in his head. So he's like saw them as personified demons. Uh and he called them my mean schizophrenic demons.
And so, like, one of my favorites is my keyboard got damaged. That song. And he's like, you know, you know, so he basically his demons say some, you know, say something to him. He's like, suddenly I yell F you on the airplane. And then he gets kicked off of the airplane, and his keyboard flies to Florida.
My keyboard flew to Florida without me. And then like he gets to Florida and his keyboard got damaged. He's like, I'm I'm I was unhappy with it and it pissed me off. And that's the song. And then like he's just like, I was like, you know what?
Like, this is like a slice of his actual life, because he had gotten famous towards the end, and so people were flying him around, and stuff like that would happen to him. You know what I mean? He has stories about getting kicked off of buses, getting kicked out of whatever, because you know, he he'll hear a voice and he yells at the voice. I mean, it's amazing work. It's I like say like anyone who thinks that the only way to listen to Wesley Willis is like, you know, as it ironically, is a is a dummy.
Um, they're dummies. Anyway, Neko writes, Virgil, what is your favorite box wine? Asking for a friend. Box wine, interesting. So, first of all, box boxes, uh it's a container of wine.
So don't people will be like so snob, like I don't drink a box of wine. But it's it's uh it's a vessel to to put your wine. So it it and the fact that we consume wine number 90% of the wine that we get from the markets like should be drink. I know it'd be in a year, two years, so storing wine bottles somehow just became like a vessel. Then you have a box of wine, you have kind of wine.
What's my favorite box of wine? Probably the uh uh there's one called Lab L E B from Portugal, and also there's another one, the house wine. Uh oh, yeah, I know those guys. Yeah. So those are really, really decent uh box wine.
You like uh from the tank, that's pretty cheap. You know those guys from the tank, they're they're those French folks. No. So here's what I think. See what you think, Virgil.
I think, right, so like most of the most of the box wines, they're either like really cheap, right? Yeah. Like $18 for three liters. Or like maybe like a little maybe like a little more, like maybe like $25, $30. Like, I would love like a $50 box wine.
A $50 box wine. Right, because a $50 box wine, you're looking at buying a $30 a bottle of wine, right? But getting it in a in a box, you're getting four bottles, right? Because if you figure that like an eighteen dollar box wine is uh four bottles for eighteen dollars, someone do that math for me, right? It's it's like five dollars a bottle, but really you're paying you pay for that bottle probably like eight fifty nine bucks, right?
Right. So if that's the multiplier, right? If I'm paying I could be paying $13 or $14 the equivalent bottle in a box wine, but I could be drinking like $25, $30 bottle wine. You know what I mean? Quality-wise.
The the cost to the producer. Right. So let's assume that unlike liquor, where the actual cost of production is not related to the price. Right. In liquor, they make a liquor, not all liquors, but some liquors, they make the liquor and then they decide what the price is going to be.
How s you know I was in the room once when that was happening? Oh, really? Oh my god. Uh it blew my mind. I was they were like, they were like, Yeah, we haven't figured out how much it's gonna cost yet.
I was like, Well, don't you know how much it's gonna cost you to make? And they're like, Yeah. And I was like, Well, do you know how much it's gonna cost you to make? What do you mean you don't know how much it's gonna cost to sell it? And they're like, Oh no, it's not about that.
They're like, We're gonna set the market based on what we think the product is, and that's what the cost is gonna be. Has nothing to do with how much it costs us to make. And I was like, Wow, what? I was like, what? You know what I mean?
Like, I just did I was like and now you get a glimpse into how we run our company. Yeah, yeah. Zing. Yeah. Stassi is always good for a zinger.
She's the queen of the zing. I think Nastasia might be the queen of the zing. I don't know. I don't think so. Uh so uh we cleared our palette, by the way, uh, Quinn, with uh Macintosh's uh original, and because it's in Canada, they have to have it in French, l'original, uh creamy toffee, toffee a creme.
Is that the correct uh creme? Anyway, uh but this tastes like legit British stuff. It's softer than the ones I'm used to, which I kind of like because although I do like the going from breaking my face off too soft while I'm chewing on it on like some of the old school remember the toffees with a hammer, you guys ever had the toffees with a hammer? You get the toffee and it comes with a hammer, and then you use the hammer and you shatter the toffee into pieces because it comes as a single block, and you're like, boom, and you hit the toffee and it breaks apart, and then you put it in your mouth, and you're like and then it finally turns into toffee in your mouth. So there's something amazing about that.
But I think this is a good middle ground. What do you think, Quinn? That's it. You're you're eating all the ones that my dad selected. Hey, except for the ketchup chip.
Hey, buddy. I like ketchup. Talk talk to uh John. John's the one picking what we're eating. I brought every single thing with the exception of Smarties, because we know what Smarties tastes like.
Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right, all right. All right. Well, you know, uh, tell your dad.
Uh tell your dad I enjoy toffee a lot. I have did I ever tell this story on the real quick. When I was a child, I went to Madame Toussauds. Did I ever tell the story? In London.
I was about to turn seven. I was six and like six and a couple days from seven years old. And we were going to Europe because my mom got invited to uh give a talk in France. So we did we went to England, we went to France, and we went to uh Holland. So we go to Madame Tussauds and we go downstairs to the Hall of Horrors.
You guys ever been to like the original London, the Hall of Horrors? Now, it's probably like really cheesy for an adult, but for a six and change person, it was super creepy. And the one in London back then in the 70s, this was like 1977, they had the actual clothes. So basically it was just wax figures of murderers with uh with the clothes that they had when they were executed put onto the wax with a story of their murders. That's that's what the hall of horrors used to be.
Is it still like that, John? It was when I was a kid. Yeah, super scary. Wow, I loved it though. I thought it was super cool.
How old were you? Uh eight or nine. Uh a couple years is a big difference. You were like, you know, fair. Yeah.
That's like me and like a 30-year-old now. Anyway. So, so like um, um. So anyway, so one of this uh uh murderers was a woman that was a nanny, and she kept on murdering the babies that she was nannying, right? And she used to lure them in with toffee.
And so I was eating this toffee, right, in London, because uh like I was there and I got turned on to toffee, and I was like basically blasting through toffee, bla blasting through it, you know, as a little kid. Like it was like my absolute my two favorite candies, just so you know, I like the the English kind of that kind of toffee, and I like Getz's caramel cream. So I really like love that like cooked milk flavor, right? So my dad, like when he f when I'm eating the toffee at night in the hotel room with crappy remember how bad English toilet paper used to be, John? Yeah.
Oh my god. Not just English. It's like wax paper. Oh my god. It's like, why would you wipe your butt with wax paper?
Makes no sense. Anyway. So my dad sees that she lures these babies to their death with with toffee, and then he looks at me. She also had like very pronounced kind of buck teeth, and he goes, Want some toffee? And he would say that to me all the time.
And like totally bent my mind, man. Ruined me. Nice. Ruined me. By the way, I believe it is um our friend uh Quinn's uh birthday, isn't it?
What? I think we need to say a quick happy birthday. Oh, I like that. No singing the song though, because no singing the song. I'll tell you why.
Song is very triggering for including my son. But I didn't know that, Quinn. You didn't tell me this. Why do you not tell me this crap? Happy birthday, Quinn.
Thank you. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Yeah. Okay.
What? But I'm not gonna do the how old are you now thing. I'm telling you, we're not gonna do those traditional things. They're very triggering for people. Anyway.
Um you definitely don't want to take your uh uh autistic son who's triggered by the birthday song to birthday parties when he's a kid. Nothing's worse. Like nothing is worse. That's not true. I'm sure there's worse things.
Uh Wizmard right wait, so Quinn sends us treats on his birthday. Yep. Well, I thought they would arrive potentially sooner, but anyways. I just get a giant box, no note. Uh uh yesterday, I opened the door.
There's a giant box. No note, full of Canadian products. Quinn's like, oh yeah. Dad was supposed to put a note in. Yeah.
Listen, John, the next time we better taste the coffee crisp because that's the one I know that Quinn likes. What about the cheesies? We need cheeses and co we need both. And the wine gums. Oh, Maynard's wine gums are delicious, but I feel we should have that as dessert to the wine.
Okay. All right. So listen, you pour the next thing, and uh, I'll uh read a question for you to answer. That smells very coffee. Okay.
Um, so the question is uh Virgil, this is from uh Whimsard. Can you talk a little bit about how to be wine literate in the current wine world? Where many well, sorry, in the current wine world where many of the traditional categories and markers of quality wine are less emphasized. Well, just be curious. Uh drink wine, study wine.
Uh, whenever you're because there are plenty of wines, right? It's uh and it's always changing. Uh depends on the trend, depends on like uh uh the biggest wine producer country. I mean like Portugal now is becoming a a big thing. Uh they're getting a lot of attention.
So it it changed a lot. Like the orange wine now, it's a trend. Uh I like Tontack. Yeah. Uh it's it's uh It's not just skin contact, right?
Skin contact plus oxidation. Uh some, like this one has almost like no oxidation. This is skin contact, none of these skin contact from uh talk about the aroma on this. What are we, what are we, what are we, what are we drinking here? This is uh uh graver muscateller or also known as the uh uh Moscata Pettigran.
Uh this is from Rust in uh Austria. It's closer to south of Vienna, basically, southeast of Vienna, closer to uh Hungary. Uh it's very close to Hungary. I really want to go to Hungary. Yeah, it's it's a here, it's really beautiful.
And also it's funny, this area usually they have uh they will hire like workers from Hungary because it's cheaper than getting uh Austria. So like in in that part of the because they're very close and they kind of like speak the same language in a way. You know what I want to do? I want to fly into Vienna, like go back to Vienna. I was only there for a couple of days, and then get rent a car and then go east.
I think it would be the most fun trip. Oh, really? Like Slovakia. Yeah, like Hungary. Well, so are you familiar with Hungarian pepper pastes?
Hang on, no. Hungarian pepper pastes are freaking delicious. They're like 20% salt. So it's basically like both salt and heat at the same time. There's like Eros pista, and then the one that I have, which is which I guess means like angry there's there's there's like strong Steve, and then there's angry Steve, but they don't call it that.
But it's like a very hot, salty paste and a m like a a regular salty paste and then a mild salty paste. Real good. Hungarian pepper paste. John, you gotta get yourself on some Hungarian pepper paste, man. Yeah, that sounds great.
Hungarian pepper paste is like big money cash money. You can go to um you can go to the uh Monken Food store in in they have it, and I think also Ridgewood Pork Store has it. Oh nice. I love Richard Pork store. Who doesn't?
We went there together. Remember that? We smelled the we smelled the smoked meats from like a block and a half away. You park within two blocks of the Ridgewood pork store and just sniff your way to the door. Be deadly to live in that neighborhood.
Oh my god. In Richwood. Yeah. Munken isn't it's not technically in Ridgewood, but it's like it's so you're moncon, right? Uh there's two.
Yeah. I don't go to the one in Astoria. Maybe it's the maybe it's the better one. I don't know. I'll go to the other one.
The one that's yeah, yeah. They're their pork rinds are freaking great. Schumar. They call that shumar. Eastern European word or Romanian word for the chicharones.
It's amazing. Oh my God. Every culture I've ever been to that has a good chicharron, I like. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Like uh Colombia has delicious chicharrons. Love them. I had late night. It's not really it's not chicharron, but it's got that fried. Like in in the Philippines, in freaking um uh you know, obviously, anyone with a good crispy pork skin or like pork skin, I like it every way.
I like it dry and fried, I like it greasy with the meat attached. You know what I mean? It's funny. My my aunt just arrived from the Philippines, and my sister sent me uh chicharones. Oh, really?
From that area, you guys known for like chicharron capital. Yeah, yeah. So she sent me like a couple bags. Really? Oh my god, I would love to go back to the Philippines because I was there for such a short amount of time.
What are your thoughts on Mang's all-purpose sauce? Oh, the mang tomates, all for a sauce. Yeah, it's very oh we love that. Yeah. So what's hilarious about it to me, for those of you that don't know, go buy it.
I think it's what's it made with? Is it like vinegar and bread and uh liver. Liver, liver, liver. So Mang's all-purpose sauce, it is only actually all purpose if all purposes are pork. Exactly.
Which is like an amazing thing that you're just like this sauce is good for every purpose because what other purpose could there be, right, John? Yeah, true. But we technically use that for any dippings for anything. Really? We use it for uh spring rolls, we use it for fish and other stuff.
But it's mainly for lechon. This is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so good. Yeah, so means it it started like in in Manila when they he will originally grill the liver and chop them and like and mix with vinegar and other spices. So is Mang Thomas a person?
Yeah, I believe he used to I if I'm not mistaken, he's from the capital and uh he sell uh lechon. Yeah. And he created that sauce. Now I only had lechon at like 3 30 in the morning. Is that the right time to have it?
You can have it anytime. Yeah. You put egg on it, that's gonna be a breakfast lecha. I gotta go back to the Philippines. Oh, it's so good.
I had such a good time there. All right, uh, so John, what do you think of this wine, Mr. I don't have good vocabulary. I can't talk good about wine. It's enjoyable.
That's good. I'll take that. But this is the uh uh lockvogel, I found pronouncing it correctly. It is locked vogel uh by um uh Vensel. It means just uh I think it's decoy, uh basically to lure people to drinking skin contact uh instead because they will think it's kind of drink like a regular wine as well.
Uh but it's only nine days of skin contacts, also unfiltered. Yeah, yeah, you can see that. It's like got the little bit of that cloud. Yeah, which also scares old folks uh like me. Uh so what are we having with this?
We haven't uh what are we having today? Coffee. All right, because Quinn would get bent real hard if we don't have the coffee crisp. He was like, he's mentioned it like three times yesterday. Let me figure out how to break this up.
It's crisp. It breaks. Did you did you bring the Joe Louis as well? Uh yeah, I did. Yeah.
I brought everything, Quinn. Yeah. I followed your instructions, man. Like Well, I will learn to have everyone try before the uh the locusts at your house consume everything. All right, so I'm gonna tell you a story in a minute.
Oh, this is good. This is like uh I like this. So it's it's a coffee version of like it's denser, so like um, you know the wafer cookies that you um that you kind of that I grew up with with like um the fat goop in the middle, and the fat composition of the middle of uh wafer cookies is actually quite interesting because um the solid fat index of it is kind of uh it's an interesting mix, which I'll talk about some other lifetime, uh, because it's intensely boring for everyone but me. But this has less of the fat, so it's more cookie, so it's a little bit denser, but it makes it quite crisp and it's coated in chocolate. So the the whatever you want to call it, the X pattern that's in the wafer is quite a small X pattern.
It's not a big X pattern, right? What do you guys think? I liked it. I like the crispiness, right? And what's there's a center layer that looks different that almost looks like an expanded, like a like a C foam.
There's a center layer of it that looks like a like a sponge, like a sponge candy center layer. You see that? I like sponge candy. What do you think, Quinn? Why don't you talk about it for a second since it you're a fan?
Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I I I haven't noticed the different layers, but I was sort of my gateway into coffee flavor, because like growing up I didn't like coffee. But I'm like, well, I like coffee first. I know I like coffee flavor. It actually goes fine with the wine, interestingly, and uh um I typically don't like coffee-flavored things, but I do like this. Yeah.
It's it works really well with wine, surprisingly. Yeah, I was surprised, right? Yeah. Never tried it before. Like sweet things with uh uh skin contact.
Yeah, it's surprisingly works. Yeah, shocking. Uh all right, let me see. Another question. Uh Jason Lynn writes in what are your current favorite high quality to price ratio wine regions slash styles slash makers at the moment?
Uh region, I can say it's Bayrada in Portugal. In the country, I think Portugal is really a hot spot right now for uh a good wine. They improve a lot of their techniques, and also you can buy a decent wine uh with almost the same structure, say like a Napa, but without paying the price of Napa Valley. The reason is most of the winemakers in Portugal are they been their their being here's been passed down generation after generation compared to Napa Bali. Like you you have to pay for the CEO, the winemakers, and everything, and you the property it's alone in California is way higher than Portugal.
Yeah. You know, there's uh uh a woman from New York who moved to Lisbon and is opening a bagel shop in Lisbon. So yeah, she's going to Lisbon. You know. And also get uh uh if you can now try uh enjoy Portugal now because that we noticed the price is going up in Portuguese wine.
Oh really? Yeah, because of that uh trend right now. Do you know what um I mean I'm a hu I like obviously I like port because I'm a human, but like uh I don't drink that much Portuguese like regular table wine, but their cheeses are so crazy good. You know what I mean? That those prices went up like a decade ago.
Yeah, uh uh what what I have in one of the wine that I have here is the baga, actually. It's uh from Bayrada. Is that what we're on uh what we're on next? Yeah. All right, why don't you pour that and then I'll read the next question?
Uh Josh Josh S writes in the Natty wine, not named after uh your sister Nastasia. No. Yes, I know. Does she like it? Nice.
I don't think I don't know. I have no idea. Oh second, I gotta give John something to rinse. You don't you don't have any idea at all? Come on, man.
You haven't ever made that like cra wise crack on her. She doesn't like that, she hates wise cracks anyway. Um the natty wine trend in my area has really just been a celebr. Ooh, all right, Josh is gonna go hardcore on you. You ready for him to go hard in the paint?
Yeah, sure. All right. The natty wine trend in my area has really uh just been a celebration of flawed wine. Flawed wine. And by the way, I have to say it in my own defense.
Like, I'll say, give me whatever you want, just make sure it's not overtly flawed. That's what I usually say. Exactly. Yeah. Um so in Josh's area, he thinks it's been a celebration of flawed wine.
What do you think it could, should be, uh, I guess, in contradistinction to that, or should it be at all? All right. Go. Well, not all natural wine are flawed. I mean, it's uh it's become flawed because there's lacking of uh other uh substance that protect the wine, like sulfites, for instance.
Uh natural wine, basically nothing added, nothing removed. That's your uh hardcore natural wine. Uh so there is a very it's very front to to flaws. Uh but also there are some instances with very high NVA, uh volatile acidity. Uh uh but it it's they're not all bad.
We have natural wine in our store that it's really good and it's not flawed. It's it's uh it there you can't trace any uh defects on the wine at all. Uh and also like flawed wine is like champagne was a flawed at one some point in 1600, 1700s, babbles was uh bite your tongue, exactly. A defects on on like uh a wine. It's the same thing oxidation is also like a bad four or lots of wine, but you know, if you drink sherry, you need what you want oxidation.
Uh so yeah, drink a good natural wine, and also it's not like a new thing. Natural wine is a new thing. It's the in in France they've been doing natural wine since like 1950s, basically. Uh in the 80s, it became really big uh until now. But America, we're just getting the uh the whole trend of natural wine.
So, Gwen, we're eating uh the Hawkins cheesies with this. I think Joe Hazen's appreciating the Hawkins cheesies. It's like a cheesy plus plus, right? Wow, what's it? Sorry, it's like a cheeto plus plus, Cheeto Plus Plus.
It's like if if if uh Richie and whoever the other guy was, when they came up with the language C, right? This is C. This is Cheeto Plus Plus. You know, I like the texture on this better, but I like the cheese flavor on the Cheetos better. I don't know, man.
Them's fighting words. Now, okay. I'm gonna say this. Say the name of this wine again that we're drinking. This is the by uh Sidonio, the Sausa from Bayrada.
It's made from a hundred percent baga. How much would this cost in a in a in a a store? A bottle of that? Well, because probably like 20 bucks. I would drink the heck out of this.
I would drink the hell out of this. You know what? This is a reason why you should drink. I'm gonna go take a bite out of a cow right now. Like I want a steak real bad.
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I'm having this wine, John. Will you with me on this? Yeah, yeah, I know. It's great.
I can tell that you're loving it too. But it could go with a steak. I could I could have this with uh lamb, I could have it on its own. On its own, yeah, exactly. Bag is one of the and this is 2016.
So bag is one of the few varieties that you don't want to touch it when it's really young because it's so high in acid, it's high in tannin, uh, you want to age it a little bit. Uh it's also very hard to grow. This is kind of from Bairada, which you need the dry weather uh climate to really grow uh good bag because it's very prone to like some uh mildew and some like it's kind of the same as spinot nois in a way when it when in terms of taste. Not in taste of not in terms of taste, yeah. Uh Quinn, which one of the uh which one of the cakes should we try?
Because we're gonna run out of time. I would do Joe Louis, the chocolate ones. All right. So we're gonna eat those real quick and then I'll those are what go ahead. That's the money.
Those are those are my childhood, those are my childhood favorite my uncle used to work as a trucker for the company so birthday was like boxes of Joe Louis all right so basically the Vashon Corporation has been making Joe Louis since 1923 they come ooh they're softer than I thought they're they kind of look like uh like a like a miniature whoopie pie dipped in chocolate for those of you that can't uh see what we're doing here and is it named after the boxer Joe Lewis the boxer or is it Joe Louis Joe do you pronounce them Joe Louis Louis all right because here in the US oh they're soft hold on a second that's good oh my god it's like eating chocolate like a better hostess yeah it's like eating chocolate air exactly it is better hostess yeah it is and it's um it's got a little bit of redness so like clearly they um it's got some like alkaline stuff going on in it in the in the cocoa powder that's big money i like that quinn that's delicious all right now i have a I have a test for you to run you ready ready this is the McGee test I hope we can run it real quick hand me the thing the oil or here it is so first of all does this smell rancid to you at all don't don't read what it is don't do anything just tell me whether it smells rancid to you smells like something but it doesn't smell rancid to me not rancid right is it rancid you could tell like tiny right right but not rancid right all right do we have what's the closest thing we have to neutral to pour a little bit of that on. Um maybe the hickory sticks. Yeah. All right. Put some of the put some of that on the hickory.
So what what I'm passing around is um is prickly prickly uh prickly ash, like you know, Sichuan pepper, prickly ash oil. Oh, that's right. All right. And I have this theory. Dip dip it, dip, dip it so we can taste the uh you want me to put it right in there?
Uh no, no, uh, where's the cap? Pour some of the oil in the cap and then we'll just give the cap. I do. All right. Yeah.
Pour some oil on the cap. So I noticed that uh when I had this oil, and then so you know how orange wine goes really well with um food with Sichuan pepper in it, right? Yeah. Right. So I noticed that I was drinking an unoxidized wine.
That's why I asked you about the reasoning. Does not taste oxidized, right? That after I after I have the uh the oil, unoxidized wine tastes oxidized to me. Oh, interesting. Yeah.
But you have to get a good decent dose on your tongue. So I'm I'm getting a good decent dose, and we're gonna see. So then John. But you have to wait. So we should you should eat a little bit of the chocolate.
I don't want you to have the flavor of the prickly ash oil in your mouth, because I don't want that to be the flavor. I want it to just be an effect on your tongue. You have to completely coat your tongue with the oil. Right, yeah. While you're doing this, guys, Cypress Hill writes in.
Question. Have you figured out a way to measure the real stove BTUs? That's British thermal units by boiling water. Hoping it's in your book of soap. The problem, Cypress, is that BTUs are a measure of how much energy is going into your stove.
And what you're trying to measure is how uh how effectively does that stove put that energy into a pot. And that's gonna depend on a lot of things on how big your pot is compared to the burner, whether the flames are overdriven or not. So there's no way for me to calibrate how fast I boil water on my stove to the way that you would boil it on your same gas stove with the same number of BTUs, right? This is one of the reasons I don't like people fighting BTU wars. They should think about how long it takes them to boil water.
Um but it's an interesting question, and I do deal with it or will deal with it in the book. Have you guys mellowed out your taste enough so that you feel like you can accurately taste the wine? Yeah. All right, taste it now. See whether or not um it tastes oxidized to you.
Just be honest if you're not changing it does, but uh I think it's just the uh Sichuan pepper kind of combining the right, but it combines to me to make it taste more like an orange wine. Yeah. Because uh, yeah. Which is interesting, right? Uh I mean to me it's an interesting test.
It is, yeah. It's uh it's I don't know why, but Virgil, thank you so much for coming on, bringing these delicious wines. Nastasia feels dumb that she didn't get to have them because she would have really enjoyed them. Uh I like this Portuguese variety I haven't had. This freaking uh Foxy grape.
Foxy grape is would be one of my whatever they call them names. I love that. Uh yeah, thanks for coming on. Cooking issues. Thank you.
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