Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave, our own host of Cooking is Shoes coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, the Rockefeller Center at New Stan Studios. Join as usual with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Stas? I'm good.
Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Anything fun happening? Anything anything good in Nastasia Land?
No. Just doing Amazon stuff. Well, isn't that some good news? Yeah, go Quinn. Yeah.
So Quinn. Well, well, Quinn Quinn Quinn's also here. Hey, Quinn. Hey. Quinn has managed to do what no one else could do on Earth.
We think. I mean, I kind of want to jinx it just so that my life can continue to be the way it has been or all of our lives can. But uh somehow Quinn has magically made it such that Amazon now considers us a legitimate company once again. So yeah. It's very exciting.
It is it is it it well, my personal account is now should be reactivated. I think he completely shut yours down forever and said that you were a scammer. Perfect. Yeah. So for those of you that don't know, uh Amazon decided that we were bad actors.
I don't know why. We don't know why. I think Quinn still doesn't know why, right? You don't know. Uh no, uh, no, I know.
Oh, okay. What was it? Well, okay. I don't know what the inciting incident is, but somebody did keep making actual accounts that we did control. Control is a very uh with our emails.
Ah, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Control would imply a level of uh agency that we didn't really yeah, or execute. And uh, so why would that cause the this to happen and be unfixable?
Well, we there is a policy against having multiple accounts, unless you have legitimate multi-brand business reasons. I see. So why did they cancel John's personal account? Because I logged into the CD address. Yeah, I don't know.
Look, my Amazon account was fine, but my selling privileges were suspended because of my association with Booker Index. Yes, well, yeah. So I don't sell anything. Not only in the world, but not only are we bad actors, but anyone associated with us is painted with the same brush. Yep.
Yeah. Yeah. But now we're we're we're free, huh? Uh, in theory, yeah. Nice.
Nice. Uh I still hate them. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah.
Me too. Yeah. All right. All right. Uh, well, you can hear in a in also here we have John.
How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah?
Got Joe Hazenrocking the panels. Hi, thanks for joining us. Yeah. Yeah. So uh we don't have Jackie Molecules because he's back in Mexico right now, and the uh the day of the dead is is somehow taking over the phone lines.
He can't, he he called in, he's like, it's real spotty here. I think what he was doing was this. I can't hear you. I think that's what he was doing. No?
No, this is what I do. I do this. Anyway. Uh calling your questions to 917. Oh, no.
Yeah, 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507, if you are a live Patreon listener. And if you're not, how do you do that, John? Patreon.com/slash cooking issues. Go there, check out.
There's three different levels of membership, and there's a lot of great membership perks that come with everything, including uh discounts to Kitchen Arts and Letters, other random companies that we might have on air like Maiden when they were on Nick Coleman's olive oil, you know, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, be a member. Yeah, you know who didn't give a uh a discount, which was fun was uh Steve from uh Rancho Goro, who's like, Oh, yeah, I've never he doesn't talk like this. He had to listen to the episode if you want to hear how he actually sounds. But he goes, I've never in my life discounted a bag of beans.
It's an insult. Remember that? Yep, no, no, very true. Respect it, yeah. Yeah.
I was like, you know what? Fine. Yeah, fine. Yeah. But can you discount something else?
It's not a bag of beans. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
Uh oh, wow. Wait, what's that? The what's that? I feel like uh, I feel like uh like an honest to goodness, like someone that Nastasia, that music is the stuff that Nastasia actually listens to. Nastasia was she's going down the highway.
Oh, yeah. Nastasia has excellent taste in music, I've got to say. She doesn't have any taste in music. It's tasting radio shows. She hates when you choose music.
She had a playlist going at her party on Saturday. It was just one banger after another. Thank God. But the old Nastasia, whenever you drive in a car with her, she's like, I'm gonna turn on the radio. No, I still do that.
Yeah, so okay. So you don't, you you've told me more than five times, more than 20 times. I can't count the number of times because I don't have enough fingers, and that's as high as I can count. How you said, I hate people's playlists. What is it with people having to choose?
Just listen to the radio. How many times have you said that to me? Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay. So okay, then.
But I'm saying, but you but for a party, you're okay with a playlist. Yeah. Yeah. Cause because why? Because they might say something you don't agree with on the radio that you listen to.
No, no, you just want to have consistent music. Right? Commercial free. I mean, I don't listen to random disc jockeys talk about, you know, picking up cannolis in the basement on a new that's a you that's a you thing. So I don't know.
I don't know what this is like. I only play music that I choose. Yes. Yeah, but if you have a playlist like mine that's over two weeks long, I mean that's wow. Yeah.
Man, I don't want to come to your party in the like when you were in your emo phase for that two weeks when you were listening to just like, and it's like all like, or like your goth section, and we're listening to Sisters of Mercy, Marianne. It's funny, I just put on something from Floodland just the other day. She goes, Oh, I forgot about Lucretia. Great track. Yeah, yeah, it's true, true.
Uh I think they're one of those things where didn't like the lead person just like leave and start their own thing? Wasn't there all sorts of problems with that band? Andrew Eldritch? Yeah. Uh something with the name.
I don't know. I it's so weird to think of all these people that you you know knew in like the 80s being like old now. Like I'm old now, but then the people who were already older than me when I was not old are like real old. Or they all died from heroin overdoses. Well, get this.
Yeah, right. Get this. Dax goes to me, he's like, I'll probably never see an ACDC concert. And I said, Well, if you do see an ACDC concert, you're not really seeing an ACDC concert. You're seeing some sort of agglomeration.
And I was like, uh, I was like, you know, because Malcolm's dead, and you know, uh, you know, I'm not saying Brian Johnson's not legitimate as opposed to Bon Scott. I'm not one of those guys. I didn't see them before 1980. Come on, come on. You know what I mean?
Uh I was only nine. But my point being that uh he was like, Did you know Axel Rose fronted for them when Brian Johnson had to bow out because he was having some sort of hearing problem? I was like, Axel Rose saying for ACDC, and my mind was just like I was like, nothing has meaning anymore. And I heard it was I heard it was good. I heard he did a good job, surprisingly.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Uh but I mean, like, is there any meaning left on Earth? Like, Stas, would you ever go see like uh like one of these bands, like these kind of like 60s uh uh era bands that's completely reconstituted and all they own is the name, and it's some manager who like owns the well you kind of saw that with the Beach Boys. Yeah.
And how did that but you left? We left. Yeah, we left. Even though you you uh you're a fan of uh John Singer Stamos there. Uh-huh.
Yeah, yeah. Uh I I always like to confuse uh John Singer Sergeant and John Stamos. It's my favorite. There you go. Uh shout out to uh Skernick Wines.
John and I went to a champagne tasting yesterday. It was quite fun. You would have enjoyed it, Nastasia. That's funny. I was in the city.
No, you didn't come. Funny. I talked about it. When? Uh for the past three weeks, here after the show.
I was like, there's a champagne tasting. And Nastasia is like, oh, I'm not listening to you because the radio's off. And then you walked out. I don't remember that. Yeah, that's my fault.
I'm sorry. Yeah. Uh you would have enjoyed it. You should go to the next one. Nothing Nastasia likes uh more than like infinite.
And you know what was nice about it? They were all grower producers there. And you know, I always said, I was thinking of you at least, Nastasia, I was like, pour me the pink first. Mm-hmm. Pour me the pink first.
Anyway, next year, maybe. Maybe they do it again next year. That was their Halloween celebration. Yeah, it's good. Uh all right.
From uh anyone else have anything to share? No. So it's gonna actually be a no tangent Tuesday. I don't know. I cooked a good pasta over the weekend.
Good rago, but yeah, I'm not that's it. Yes, you did. Yeah. There we go. I made kimchi on the weekend.
Oh yeah? Well, well, I mean, you started it or you finished it. Okay. So when's it gonna we're like how long do you think it's gonna go? Well, I mean, we just let her we just let it always go.
We like put portions in the fridge, but then it just it just goes. Right, right, but I'm saying what temperature do you ferment at? Uh right now, we have it in the fridge. It's because we didn't have time to like properly jar it up. But we'll probably put it in a jar in the pantry in a few days.
Well, yeah, well, I'm what I'm trying to get at here is what temperature is your pantry, Quinn. All I'm saying is is that I have no idea. Well, listen. Room temperature. I mean, I've never been in your room, Quinn.
The point is, is if it goes too high, right? The problem with it, right? Is if it goes too high, it's not gonna be poisonous or anything, but you're gonna lose that. You have a decent chance of it getting mushy if if the temperature goes, I forget the magic number, but it's somewhere in the high 60s. If it goes above that, if it's in the 70s, which is what my kitchen normally is, then you have a very good shot of having a mushy, uh a mushy fermented cabbage, and it's always sad.
Then I'm the only one eating it because I'm sad. You know what I'm saying? I guess we'll find out. Or you could just put it in the coolest place. What's the coolest place that exists in your house?
I don't know. Well, have someone find out what the coolest place in had put it there. Another thing, if you have a vacuum machine, obviously it's a good way to uh it's a good way to do it because you don't have to worry about weights or any of that other crap. You just you just have to worry about exploding bags, which is why if you bag so you know how like when you're making kimchi, I don't have a chamber. I don't have a chamber.
I'm not saying this is for you. Other people are listening that might want to do it. You know what I mean? Um what's the other bag one that everyone has that I'm blanking on? Food saver?
Food saver, yeah. Works with that too. Well, your reason it works with that is because it doesn't have the brine's not there yet, yeah. Right. So, like typically, like when I'm doing sauerkraut or kimchi or any sort of fermented cabbagey thing, I do a pre-squash step.
I'll like add the salt in a big bowl, and then I'll just physically you know, to like break it up a little bit to help the brine come out. Because I like to add as little excess liquid to it as is humanly possible. And done in a vacuum, uh, cabbage requires zero additional liquid. Yeah. Zero.
So if you stick it in a food saver and you do the crusheroo, crush crush crusheroo with salt, put it in, suck a vacuum on it. If you let it go long enough, you won't get liquid into your food saver, but you can get a decent enough seal. But you do need to throw it into another into another bag. Yeah, yeah. Because it will split.
Yeah. Yeah. And I've never seen one violently explode and spray stuff everywhere. I just had the seam split and leaks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But if you have it inside of another bag or inside of uh, what's it called? Cambro. Yeah. But once it pops, then it's no longer uh oxygen-free. Then you should put it in a jar and tamp it down.
But just who has big enough jars around to do like all of the cabbage? Oh, my name is John. I've got so many pickling jobs. Well, not so many. I don't know.
When uh walking around Chinatown with John Hutt a couple of years ago in one of those like ceramic shops is closing down. So they had the big, like, you know, Chinese style fermenters with the moat on top and all that stuff. And I got it for 20 bucks, and it was great. Yeah. Most nice.
From missing peppers in it now. Right. Because then once it uh, as long as you keep that thing, as long as the liquid never runs out in that thing, the oxygen's gonna get exhausted. See, the whole point about this whole like keeping it under the surface of the liquid is just is just excluding oxygen. But um any oxygen that's in there at the start, which is why bagging it even with a crappy, I'm not saying your food saver's crap, but yeah, with a lower end vacuum, that oxygen will get consumed fairly quickly.
And then you're in an anoxic environment and you can you can go from there. Yeah. Uh but I've never had one with the little water seal. You like it? Yeah, I mean it worked, it's 20 bucks.
Yeah. And do you get a lot of uh calm yeast on top? Are you pretty good? Pretty good. Yeah.
Pretty good idea. I put some salt in the well this time to try and just avoid anything happening there, but I need to find a place to hide it, which is my issue. What do you mean? Why? I don't know.
Doesn't the DOH not like that stuff? Oh, oh, oh, oh, at the restaurant. At the restaurant. Oh. Uh I don't know actually what the current uh theory is.
I mean, uh you might need a hasset plan for it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I was like, hide it.
I was like, you're like, you know, I just can't help myself. I'm gonna eat it when it's too young. But I mean, if you go to like the pickle guys, they have their huge barrels of un uh unrefriger. I you know how they cheat, by the way? So the pickle guys are fantastic.
I've lived, you know, on the same block as them for 20 something years now. They're they're downtown, right? And it I have to say, even though it's not cheap, it's easier to buy half gallons of kraut. At the amount of kraut that I eat, it's easier just to buy half gallons of kraut from those guys. Yeah, right.
So I go down there and they have these big, you know, 55 gallon pickle barrels that they that they have in, and then they take out of the top of it. But I when I saw when they changed it, they really just have a five-gallon bucket that they stick into the top of the pickle bear. It's not like the pickle barrel's full of stuff. I was like, oh, you're cheating. He's like, even this weighs 80 pounds.
What are you? I was like, hey, uh I'm just saying, it's a good system. It's a good system, is all I'm saying. So, anyways, so yeah, quinch. See if you can keep that stuff cold.
Because I once did a test of um sauerkraut high up in my in my kitchen just to see what would happen. As everybody, well, as I hope you guys know the higher you go in your kitchen, the hotter it is, especially if you actually cook in your kitchen because like all of the heat from your your range, your oven, it all floats up. That's the way physics works. And so I've measured it, and it can be like as much as 10 degrees hotter if you cook a lot at the top of your kitchen from at the bottom of your kitchen. So always store this stuff low, but then try to also find a place that's a little bit cooler than your kitchen.
I don't know, like a back of a closet somewhere. Yeah. Um, you know what I uh use when I'm not bagging to keep my stuff down? What's that? Slingshot ammunition.
A glass yes, everyone has slingshot ammunition just flying around. That's a good idea. If you go to Amazon, it's almost free. You buy the white glass, it's white, they're weight glass marbles, and they come in a nylon pouch already. So you just buy two pouches, you open it, pour the marbles from one into the other, close the pouch.
The nylon is dishwashable. Yeah. Right. So then you just throw the whole thing in the dishwasher, and then now you have uh, you know, you have your uh pickle weights. Nice, you know, and nothing ever comes up over around it because it can it can make itself flat, yeah.
Yeah, it can make itself whatever size you need it to be. You know? Yeah. It's not heavy enough if you need like maximum compression, but that's why I do a little bit of the oomph oomph oomph beforehand. You know what I mean?
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. It beats filling Ziploc bags with water and then being like, well, I better fill the Ziploc bag with salt water in case it leaks.
Exactly. Yeah. You know? Anyway. I I've been doing the uh bag of actual salt trick sometimes.
But then if it if it leaks, then your salt level goes away. Well you double bag it. You double bag it. All right. Well, why not just use salt water instead of salt?
Because that's heavier. I don't know that that's the case. Unless you have solid blocks. I I don't someone look up the density of uh actually what kind of salt. Oh, yeah, no, that was that was that was a trick for me so from uh our cook quest.
I I'm blanking on his real name, Jeremy. Jeremy Yeah, Rich Chi. Yeah. Uh if you vacuum pack fine salt, it's pretty dense. Well then why not just use a rock?
The other problem with if you vacuum pack the salt is that it no longer conforms to the surface of your of your product. I mean, the advantage of a water bag is that it conforms a hundred percent to the surface of your of your product, right? I mean that's the advantage. Well, anyways. So I mean, but the problem with water, if it leaks, then you know, some people they put food coloring in it, some people they salt it, so they know if it leaks, but then if you know the advantage if you use the same brine concentration as your uh as your main thing is that if it leaks, all you're doing is diluting flavor.
You're not drastically d decreasing or increasing the salt content, you know. Whatever. I'm also a big believer in back slapping. You guys believers in backslapping? Huge believer in backslapping.
Normally, yeah. What uh what kind of uh fish products did you put in your kimchi, Gwen? I actually I I normally would just do a fish sauce, but this year, you know, it was a big batch. I wanted to be able to share it. You know, people get screamish, or not squeamish, but you know, people tend to sometimes not like the fish product.
So I cheated a little bit. I just did a a little show you in the paste. When you say don't like, you mean like mentally they don't like, or they actually don't like the flavor of it. Uh yeah, it's hard to say. Yeah.
Uh I wonder whether it's possible, probably not in the length of time that uh kimchi goes, right? But in very, very long fermentations, uh things can get broken down. I wonder whether it's possible to have a long enough fermentation such that shrimp paste is no longer allergenic for people that have shrimp allergies. This is a separate conversation, but I wonder because um you're familiar with uh fugu. You're all familiar with fugu?
Yeah. So if you if you take the egg sacks from the fugu, right? Then it's uh they're they'll kill you. They're poisonous. But if you like, because it's got tetroto, it's full of tetrodotoxins, so it'll take you out.
You know what I mean, just like the liver. Yeah. But uh, you know, food is expensive, right? So, you know, they're not trying to throw away that product. So what they do is is they salt it and they age it for like two years.
And over the course of that two years, the tetrodotoxin is broke broken down and they're now safe to uh consume. I've never tasted it. They they they talked about this uh when um when Gohan Society used to do demonstrations back when I used to be able to get my favorite uh Japanese fish sauce, the ishiri, the high grade ishiri that's only made from squid guts. Uh I mean, that's it's still far none my favorite, semi-commercially available. I mean, it is commercially available in Japan, just not here.
It's from um uh what town is it from? Anyway, that the that fish sauce with the squid guts is the best fish sauce. Isn't it best? I like all fish sauces, right? It's your preferred.
It's not even that it's preferred, it's the most exact cross between like fish sauce and canned ham. It tastes much meatier than normal fish sauce. So you can use it in an apple. I we I used to use it in my uh milk soup. So I would make like a like almost like a changua esque uh milk soup.
And I used to I used to have uh a bunch of ishiri. So I would dope the hell out of it, and you would never ever think that it was from a fish sauce. And I love fish sauce, but I'm saying it's like it's it's almost like a completely different product. The only thing close, and I've said this before, is actual uh garum made from like mackerel guts, which I've only had once from Sally Granger, who's the world's expert on fish sauce. Maybe someday we should have her on.
Yeah, we shouldn't. I mean, she's she wrote her PhD on fish sauce, and you know, prior to her PhD on fish sauce, she was the best interpreter of a pecius, the uh, you know, the famous recipe guide from Rome. She's the only uh she is the world expert. We should get her to ship us some sauce and then taste that stuff, right? Yeah.
And then, you know, have her on. Yeah. Yeah. We should. That'd be a good idea.
Yeah. All right. Uh, how long you let your kraut go, John. I don't know. Usually let it go for five days and then start tasting it and then figure out from there.
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, though, so at that point, hopefully it's still sweet craut. Here's the funny thing. Have we talked about this on air before? I don't think so. So there's all these websites uh talking about kraut, and there's a di there's different uh there's different bacterial communities that build up inside of your uh you know, lactic acid bacteria communities that build up.
I can't remember which one's which over time, right? But they're saying if you don't let it go for you know at least 14 days, they'll say, right, you're not getting that last level of uh of bacterial colony, right? Yeah. And so it's it's presumed in a lot of these websites that uh that's what you want. In other words, that it's not going to be as good a product.
It's not as complex because it doesn't have all of the bacterial colonies in it that you like it. But then the paper that they reference, right? Everybody liked the newer kraut in the paper they referenced. All the hedonic scores from the tasters were like, oh yeah, we actually like new kraut better. So I don't know whether they were just talking to Jamokes who don't like the taste of kraut or what.
But I so in other words, uh, you know, obviously it's valid whenever you think it's valid, but uh I do after after a little bit, I like to get it in the fridge and you know kind of semi-stabilize it a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, no, once you gotta ray it, you gotta try and get it to stop, yeah. Yeah, get that sweet spot. And where how do you get the temperature down to where you want it?
You just have a place that's a little cooler. Yeah, it's in the bottom of my closet. Yeah, what you department. You do it at home and then bring it to work? No, well, no, this the like when I do stuff at home, that's where I'll put it, because otherwise the only spot I have is a pie and it gets too hot and then things get mushy, but yeah, I don't know.
I need to find a place at work. I'm told kidnapping fridges are life changing. Oh, why? You're cooking it? Well, I'm just gonna puree it.
It's a hot sauce. Oh, yeah, it doesn't matter. No. Although I found that it's not just a texture, it has a little bit more of a you know what I mean? When it goes mushy.
It's just a little bit of a weird yeah, a little bit of a weird thing. But yeah, if you're gonna puree it, I guess it's not that big of a deal. Yeah. Um, one way or t'other. Yeah.
But uh, I've been told that having a kimchi fridge is a life-changing experience. I believe it. Because it keeps your, you know, yeah, keeps all your stuff reliable. Yeah. And relatively sealed.
Yeah. So you're only smelling it when you open it. Yeah. Because kimchi smells through the bag. Yes.
Yeah. As does sauerkraut. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying, I'm not trying to say that sauerkraut doesn't also smell.
It just smells differently. Yes. But it does smell through the bag. Indeed. You like sauerkraut Nastasia?
Mm-hmm. Do you do you like it cooked or you like it raw? Uh raw. Also, I just found out Gail Green died. Oh, that's so bad.
Oh. Just now? Uh-huh. Oh no. That's too bad.
Huh. Huh. Uh, you know who else died? Um Jules Bass. I don't know who that is.
Rankin' Bass? Oh. He just died like a week and a half ago or something like that. And when I heard about it, I was like, oh, I gotta talk about it with Nastasia, because that's that's the end of the era. I think he's the last kind of surviving.
I mean, he's the last of Rankin Bass. But I think, you know, I don't think there's very many people left who who worked on uh on Rudolph. And Rudolph was apparently the first one. Did you know that? No.
Yeah. And Bass was interviewed a bunch of times afterwards. And he was like, after we do Rudolph, he was like, we got so much work. It's like we couldn't even do the work. We got so much work.
You know what I mean? Because like people were like, because Rudolph, as we both know, kicks so much butt. You know? Yeah. Are you excited for Rudolph season?
Uh yeah. Good. Good. Um. Anyway, all right.
So, Quinn, have uh have we thoroughly exhausted your your your desire to speak about your kimchi? Oh, we're not even close. You probably got the question. Ooh, not even close. Uh oh yeah, last time we were talking, we're talking about adding fish to it, and you said you put whatever.
We'll we'll talk about it. Let me know when it's done. Let me know how it tastes when it's done. Do you know what we had uh a long time ago? I ate some yesterday.
Oh, so that's like f that's just like that's like fresco. Yeah. Like that's that's yeah, yeah. Um we remember, Stas, when we did uh when we we we did uh the original museum event like way back in the day. Yeah.
We were we were we were considering, I forget why it didn't work out. We gave Dave Chang New York City 1491. Yeah. And we were considering though, Korean food before the chili pepper was the other one, right? Mm-hmm.
I would like I wonder if anyone does that like like Korean food before the chili pepper. Is that a thing people are doing, John? I don't know. I don't think so. Not that I know of.
It's gonna be interesting, right? It would be, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now, not without the chili pepper. Yeah.
But for the different. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.
All right. Wizmard writes in. Oh, I know what I was gonna say. You remember when we had uh Alex and Aki on the show from Ideas and Food like a million years ago, Stas? Yeah.
Yeah. I know you remember for different reasons, but what I remember is that they don't like, they don't actually, they worry when they bag their pickles and their crowds and stuff because when you bag it, there's a little bit of excess pressure, right? That's because that's the bag inflates, right? So there's excess pressure in there. And it is very disconcerting to see an inflated uh bag, not just because you you think it might rupture, but because if you're trained in this.
Oh, by the way, Stas, I don't know if you know this. I am now in the International Sous vide Association's Hall of Fame. Awesome. And then Dax was like, they put everything in that thing. They put everything in the Everyone's in that thing.
And then when I when I I had to send him, I was inducted the same year as uh as Wiley. Why but Wiley Dufresne on next week. Wiley Wiley Dufresne's on next week, or as I like to call him, Dufresny. I don't really, but he gets that mispronunciation a lot. I'm not sure like what he can announce or what he can't announce when he comes on.
Uh FYI, he's my brother in law, so hopefully we'll try to keep the inside uh chicanery uh outside of the radio show say things that only people will understand. Uh but you know right by the International Sous Vide Association? Yes. No, for 2022 inductees. Yeah, that's me.
Okay, you're not on the page yet. Oh, nice. But it's 2021. Yeah. Well, so what their argument was is that in the 2021, they inducted people who had a an effect on home folks doing sous vide, right?
And then this one was uh people who like dealt with professionals. See, I mean, I don't know. In the last one, there was Philip Preston, Thomas Keller. Well, Philip Preston's the reason why people have well, Gousseau is Gusot. Yeah.
They named the award after the bigger. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was like those guys home home focusing on home. And so they there, I'm not saying it's accurate, dude.
I'm talking about it. What I'm saying. What I'm seeing. What I'm saying is the conceit was that this year it was people who had focused mainly on Sous vide education for professionals. Gotcha.
Although Gusot focuses on Sous vide education exclusively for professionals. I've never seen him teach something to home folk. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Oh my God, Gusso hated or hates the Spanish style of Sous-Vide.
I think, in fact, the reason I think he did all of the training that he did in the early 2000s when I met him in the US was specifically because the only thing that people had to learn Sous vide in the United States was the translation, the Montagu translation of the Rokas book. It was the only, the only document in uh in English. Didn't they do their fish real low too? Well, that's the thing. It was a bad translation.
So like uh they were doing um bacalau. They were doing salt cod, and they were doing it at 104 Fahrenheit, which is extraordinarily low. Yeah. Uh but all they were doing was warming it because it's bacalau. You know what I mean?
So it's already been cured, all the worms and the cod have been dead. But then the translation just said cod. It didn't say salt cod or bacalau, because if there's one thing that Montagu did not care about, that's the press back then. It is uh whether anyone in any other language can understand what they're talking about. And you know, are the pictures pretty?
Yes. Then the translation is fine. Uh and the pictures were pretty. Uh, but low temperature fish back then was something that a lot of people were extremely interested in. Uh, everybody was.
Um, but by low temperature, we mean like 48 C, 40, you know, 40 something, not like 40 C. You know what I mean? Which is what uh isn't a 104 like 40 C Not that low. Uh, people were doing like, you know, just around 50 Celsius, which is I don't know, 120 something is what I think 40 Celsius. Yeah.
Uh that's probably what they put it at, 40 Celsius. And so Bruno hated, hated that kind of cooking to this day. I mean, I haven't seen him in a couple of years, but he hates that kind of cooking. And so I think to counter, and he would say all sorts of that book is a great book, by the way. It's a great book.
I mean, like, I think that like that way of cooking sous vide, not a lot of people cook that way anymore, in terms of uh, you know, and a lot of things that were popularized in that, for instance, um, all of their circulator baths were integrated baths and circulators. So they were these giant things that you had to carry around with you if you wanted to move them from place to place. And so a lot of the kind of love of Spanish stuff carried over to kind of equipment nightmares like that. Whereas, you know, Philip Preston knew from the get that, you know, a portable circulator is the answer because now I can put it into a Lexan, you know, I don't put it into a bus tub. I hate seeing a circulator in a bus tub.
It's just bus tubs aren't high enough. Yeah, people. Bus tubs, they're just no good. They're also the side of a bus tub is so slanted that like it's just not good. Bus tubs, not good, no good.
Anyway, um, so I think he was doing a lot of his early training. By the way, this is before the health department cracked down in New York City. So his most of his training, I think, was in reaction because he wanted to establish the primacy of his feelings of sous vide, which were cook chill only. The man detests direct serve sous vide, hates it, hates it. If if you don't chill that stuff down before you reserve it, you are not Gousseau's friend.
He's so French about it, too. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because his whole life is cook chill. You know, he developed a lot of this stuff beforehand and was working with Joel Robichon back when Joe Robichon was alive, obviously, for the SNCF, which is the train system that goes, you know, the high speed rail system.
So they were doing a series of high end um entrees for Joel Robichon that could be reheated. So all of his stuff is cooked chill. Okay. Uh, anyways, so he was like coming to show how to really do it, as opposed to what we were learning from the Spanish, which he thought was, you know, an abomination. Even though I think he respects them as chefs, maybe.
I don't know. Uh there was still a lot of uh a lot of uh French chauvinism about like the import of the Spanish back in 2000 and you know three, yeah, four. Anyway, and then when the uh Board of Health thing hit, then it was a whole nother whole nother nightmare. Anyway. Wizmrd wants to know how's the book going?
Give us a progress report on the miracle of moisture management. Well, you just did. It's this kind of stuff, these tangents that I go off on, Wizmer, that are stopping me. The cocktail book was comparatively easy because it was comparatively more focused. What I will tell you about this book is it's gonna be more about intuition and less about recipes, and very few of the weird, like I'm not gonna be teaching people how to do bionic turkeys in uh in the in the miracle of moisture management.
Stasi, you think our bionic turkey days are over? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you never you but you like it when I do it because you like to sit there and like make fun of me. No, I think that that ended in 2020 when we tried to bring it back, and then it was like it just didn't happen.
You still have that huge like box of recipe books. Right. Nobody wanted to make the bionic turkey. It's a pain in the butt. The the real way to do the turkey, I think, is the uh is the plug of stuffing that you heat, the plug of stuffing that you heat separately, and then you know, rip out the backbone of the turkey and you know, Brian, and then drape it over the hot plug so fast.
So fast. Nobody wants. I mean, then you have the turkey backbone to cook with. Come on. Yeah.
It's true. Come on. Yeah, better gravy. Better gravy. Thank you.
Better gravy. I'm gonna take a little bit of a, I'm gonna disagree with McGee here. McGee doesn't like to brine his turkey because he says the drippings from the turkey then have too much salt in them. Just under season the rest of the gravy? Or you don't make the gravy until the last minute, right?
So you make a stock with the all the crap that you've ripped out of the turkey, right? And then, you know, I don't know. This has never been a problem for me. Yeah, same. Yeah.
So, you know, next time we have him on, we'll uh we'll we'll get Nick Coleman to come with his uh with his olive oil and whatever those grease scrapers are, and we'll we'll grease up and we'll wrestle about it. You're talking about his bar of soaps? No, no, he so no, no. Nick Nick is coming out with bars of olive oil soap, paradoxically, uh bars of soap made of food grade olive oil. I don't know why you need to have food grade olive oil in the soap, but he's very adamant about it.
And so, Stas, have you tried his soap? Yeah. Do you enjoy it? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
So do you know uh one of the old names for olive oil soap, Sas? No. Castile soap. Castile soap, because a lot of it came out of Spain, right? I found, see if anyone can anyone speaks Dutch out there.
It turns out that in the 20s, 30s, up to late 30s in the United States, it was said that recipes for Holland Rusk, Rusk, you know, the little toasts, Rusks, Holland Rusk is a is a thing, right? That the actual recipes from Holland, the real ones contained castile soap in small amounts that were melted into the liquid base of them, and that you can't get the texture of the rusk right without a little bit of olive oil soap in it. But I have not been able to find I've I I've been able to find like several, more than three English language mentions of the practice, but I've not been able to find a recipe. So if anyone can find that recipe, that'd be awesome. I mean, because do you remember back when Piper thought that we were gonna use soap and cocktails?
Not really. So, you know, one of the main things in soap is sodium laurel sulfate in a lot of soaps and like detergents and shampoos, sodium laurel sulfate, is uh it is a food grade surfactant additive. And so he was trying to see what kind of like foams and stuff you could get. Remember this? And he made simple syrup with SLS in it, and then he was like shaking drinks with sodium laurel sulfate in it, and we were all like, yo, Piper, this sucks.
You don't remember that? No. That was on Eldritch Street. Yeah, you're losing it, Stas. It's your turn to be losing it.
Mm-hmm. Anyway, Jack Rieger writes in, hey Dave, I made Kenji's recipe for low temperature carnitas. I did mine at 74 uh Celsius for 24 hours. That's not really low temperature, though. Is that really low temperature?
74. I think that you're in the, you know, there's no such thing as an uncali canny valley for temperatures, right? But once you go over 60 or so, might as well just go all the way. There's just not that much of a temperature difference if it's gonna be bagged, right? You're you're not gonna get the dehydration from it.
Maybe there is. I haven't done a lot of tests in the mid 70s, but it just seems to me to be kind of in like this like weird zone of why. You know what I mean? Yeah. Why?
Uh 74 C for 24 hours. That's also a long time. Uh, he calls for salting the meat precooked. I followed along, but thought it might get hammy cured texture that can happen with pre-salting. Uh, to my surprise, the meat was fantastic and not cured texture at all.
What's going on here? Well, going back to the miracle of moisture management, most of my anti pre-salting uh work has to do, had to do with uh cooking uh ribeyes. Uh and what I think is is that the the more um collagen there is, the more connective tissue, uh, you know, paramecium style connective tissue around uh the meats that the salt can do, the less you're gonna see that cured hammy effect, and that's more of a muscle fiber without collagen situation. I've also noticed that if you drop the temperature on something like a ribeye, you can pre-salt it as long as you don't keep it. So, like if you salt something and you cook it at, let's say 55 Celsius, which uh I don't even I don't know what that is, like 130, something like that, like 130, right?
If you cook it for just an hour or 45 minutes, where it just gets up to that temperature, even if it's pre-salted, and you drop that temperature down three or four degrees, the temperature creep won't get high enough to make it really hammy. Does that make sense? On ribeye. Whereas if you keep it at 55 with no salt for a couple of hours, or 54 or five, wherever in that, if you keep it at that temperature for a couple of hours with no salt, it also won't get hammy. But if you keep it for a couple of hours, or if you keep it for a couple of hours at 55 with salt and eat it right away, you're fine, right?
But if you keep it at 55 with salt for a couple of hours and then chill it, then it'll get hammy, right? If you take something like carnitas, where there's a lot more intramuscular uh uh collagen, right? A lot more connective tissue, that has a lesser chance of getting hammy because it's gonna get separated by the collagen fibers as the collagen breaks down with the salt. So you're gonna get much much less of that. I would be more worried at 74 for 24 hours.
I mean it's probably fine. Uh I I'd have to taste it and see what I'd be looking out for uh higher temperatures long times like that, because that's a relatively high temperature to be cooking for 24 hours. Yeah. Right. Uh what I'd be looking for there is more of uh fiber textures.
So, like what happens is is that the muscle fibers, not the, you know, it basically all of the connective tissue gets wiped out and you're left with just kind of muscle fibers. And the characteristic for that for me is if you eat a piece of meat plain, just plain, uh, don't sauce it, don't do anything. Cut a block out of what you just cooked and chew it. If you get an immense amount of juice right and keep chewing it, don't just wolf it down. Take a bite.
If you get an immense amount of juice right away, but then as you chew it, you get more kind of fibery pasty, almost like uh pork fu or pork sung texture, where you can kind of taste the individual fibers. I find that unpleasant. You ever had that happen, John? No. But you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah. So like that's what I look for uh for in a in a long uh in a long cook. Is that make sense? This is a good answer. Did I answer the question?
Yeah. Okay. Uh Colton Johnson writes in, hello everyone. I apologize in advance to Nastasia. Uh, but I have a few questions about pie.
My husband and I are going to be making some pies for a few friends, namely pumpkin as well as pecan pie. Uh, by the way, you know who hates pumpkin pie is uh Dave Chang. Apparently, I'm I'm gonna go on one of his Thanksgiving podcast episodes. Nice. Not to make pumpkin pie.
Oh. Okay. Because he has to also make the recipe. Oh. Yeah.
Yeah. Interesting. So, and you know, he won't make pumpkin pie because he hates pumpkin pie. Are you gonna have a make pie? I'm not gonna have a make pie.
Okay. I gave them a list of things that they could make and they chose two things that were not pie. Oh, okay. Yeah. Too bad for them, huh?
Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I still haven't had a banafi pie, which is what we were talking about when he was on, or if you remember that. Yeah, that's true. You ever had a banaffee pie?
No. Me either. What about you? I know uh Nastasia doesn't care. I would ask her, but she's gonna say I don't care.
Am I right? I do not care about pie. There you go. But why do you not care about pie? Is it because I do care?
No, I just really do not care about pie. What desserts do you care about? Um, none. You don't care about any desserts. What do you care about?
I don't know. All right. Good. Good. Uh so back to Colton Johnson.
We have Pie Marches on, which we refer to, and I love this the pie bowl. The pie bowl. Uh and the pumpkin pie recipe is out of this world, good. Well, so I don't know if you know this. But uh the original recipe uh in Pie Marches On for Pumpkin Pie was written as I forget what year it was, somewhere in like 1937, 36, for American Restaurant Magazine, and it was introduced as like this is the pie for this year.
So he had developed the recipe for that time. So and he was very pushed. He did a lot of iterations of that recipe, uh, which is one of the reasons why I think it works, as opposed to perhaps the uh it even has a non standard crust recipe, right? As opposed to, for instance, the pecan pie that you have uh uh issue with. A lot of people don't like pecan pie.
It's not the pie I'll go for if there's an array of pies. I'll eat it if it's the only pie, but what's the order? In an array of pies? Well, let's assume we have this array. I'll give you an array.
Give it to me. The array is two crust apple. Oh. Pecan. Pecans on top with goop.
Pecan nuts all the way through. Pumpkin pie. Apple, pumpkin, goop. Nuts all the way through. Okay.
I'm just curious. Yeah? Yeah. But what's your what about a lemon pie? I love a lemon pie.
Yeah, lemon pie's delicious. Yeah. I like I like, I like uh acidic desserts. Yes. In general.
Yeah. Yeah. That's why I also favor acidic apples. Yeah. Uh all right.
So the pumpkin pie recipe is out of this world good, but when I recently made the pecan pie recipe, it was not as good as we were hoping. Uh it is drastically different from any other recipe I've seen due to the crazy amount of corn syrup, extra eggs, and the quarter cup of flour per nine-inch pie. I was wondering if Dave has tried this recipe yet. I have not. And what might be the reason why this recipe did not stand the test of time?
As a side note, it didn't taste bad, and the pie definitely holds its shape after being cut. But the texture of the sugary goo under the pecans was strange. It wasn't gritty, but it had a clumpy texture. Well, so for those of you that want to know, I converted this to uh grams. And so a single pie contains uh an ounce, which is 20, I put 28 grams of sugar and 28 grams of flour.
Now you mix those two together. Any reason any any anyone, anyone? Why do you mix the flour and the sugar together? And why such a small amount of sugar? Considering that there's about to be 681 grams of cornstarch in it.
I sorry, corn syrup. So, like, why mix the sugar and the flour? Dispersion, dispersion. Right? If you just put flour into the corn syrup, it'll clump instantly.
If you mix it with the sugar first thoroughly and then put it into the corn syrup, you'll disperse it better. That's why. Uh and then 227 uh grams of uh eggs, whole eggs, beaten. So I don't know uh what that is. What's 57 divided?
What is that? That's like five? It's like five, right? Yeah. All right.
Um seven grams of vanilla, seven grams of salt, and 42 grams, 45, 43 grams of melted butter. You stir that all together. That is a lot of corn syrup. That is a lot. Yeah.
That's a lot of corn syrup. So I don't know what to tell you about why there's that much uh corn syrup in it. I have found some recipes online that have an extremely high amount of corn syrup. But I will give you his alternate recipe in how to bake better pies. In how to bake better pies, it's 180 grams of sugar, right?
No flour in the in the base recipe, all right. Uh, and then like uh 20, like a like an ounce of ounce of butter. And he beats the butter into the sugar. I don't know whether to give it an aeration step because a lot of pecan pies will have you aerate some of the ingredients beforehand to make a lighter texture in the in the custard. But then it's uh 525 grams of corn syrup and 22.
So the same amount of eggs and vanilla. So it's just a lot more sugar in it. And what he does in that recipe that you might enjoy, Colton, is instead of putting flour into the mix, he takes a pound of pecans for this mixture that I just gave you, a pound of pecans, and then tosses those with flour, taps off the excess, mixes the pecans in with the goop, and then bakes it. Presumably the flour will will functionalize as it cooks, and the pecans will lift off of the bottom and float to their own layer on the top. So try that recipe instead.
And uh supporters of the Patreon can uh find a copy of how to make better pies on the Patreon side. Very true. Yep. How to make better pies. From Dylan, I recently tried my hand at making some elderberry jam following a simple recipe of juice, sugar, uh, lemon juice, and added pectin.
My first attempt yielded a very delicious but disappointingly runny syrup. I rebatched the jam with more added pectin, followed by a boil to reach a temperature of 220 degrees Fahrenheit. The resulting jam was still on the loose side, but was passably set. Uh um, this experience got me wondering whether there were any reliable rules of thumb you could suggest for consistently successful jam making or any resources out there to which you'd lend your stamp of approval. I would just go to any ag department.
Ag departments are really good at jellies. I'm gonna say that the problems you there's two problems you had. Adding more pectin is not gonna help unless you've increased the solids ratio. Most likely what you need is more sugar in that thing, uh, which seems like maybe that's what not what you want. But if if if it tastes bad from that, also add more acid.
Pectins need very high solids ratios, a lot of them to work. Unless you buy a low sugar pectin, if you buy a low sugar pectin, it will set up at lower solids rates. So if you want to have less uh sugar in your recipe or lower solids, you can uh do that. I mean, if you add enough pectin, it'll set anyway, but you need a certain minimum solids ratio. So uh Rose uh Levy Bernbaum Bernbaum, who was on the show last week, I didn't get a chance to talk to her about her uh raspberry jam recipe.
But her raspberry jam recipe, what she does is is she takes raspberries and boils them in sugar syrup, okay, then removes them, then boils more in the same syrup and keeps boiling raspberries in the sugar syrup, then reduces the sugar syrup and then puts the raspberries in to cook them together. So it's like multiple cookdowns of the of the raspberries, so that by the time you're done, like it's just so much pectin and solids from the raspberries, but all the raspberries have been wilted down that you don't have to add a lot of extra sugar. I mean, there is sugar in it. It's a sugar syrup you're boiling it in. But she says it's good.
I meant to ask her about it, but we know, we ran out of time. Yeah. Yeah, have her back sometime. Cookie Bible. Yeah.
Uh I forget why she had that in her cookie Bible. She then strains it. Maybe she was doing some sort of like Linzer torque cookie. I forget. Do you I love a Linzer tor?
I do love a Linzer Torton. It's delicious. Oh my god. So I got it. I like the real ones.
I like the fake little cookies. You know what the other thing I didn't talk about in her cookie bible was that I wanted to bring up, but we just ran out of time. She gives a recipe for knockoff Milanos. Oh. The pepperage farm cookie.
Yes. I mean, I don't know, maybe there's someone who doesn't know what I mean. But like that was always growing up. That was the peppered farm cookie I wanted. Milano.
Do you like those, Nastasia? Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay, fine. Good. Thank goodness.
But like uh, on the other hand, I don't know that I need to make them. I'm fine, I think, giving my money to the Pepperage Farm Corporation. Yeah. And having them make the Milano for me. Do any of you guys prefer the flavored Milanos to the real ones?
I mean, I'm not sure. I enjoy the mint one at times. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah.
Do you like York peppermint patties? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Huh.
Anything mint for you. Uh-huh. I like a York peppermint patty once it's been frozen. Oh, yeah, but it's really good too. Yeah.
But I don't feel like people buy the full size ones anymore. I only ever see the quote unquote fun size. Yeah. Yeah. So I was volunteering at a park on Sunday and giving out full size candy bars to kids from the, you know, the local thing.
They were like, oh my God, full size candy bars. I was like, yeah, man. Yeah. Not fooling around. Yeah.
And Booker says the only fun size is full size. Oh. That's what he says. Is that right? Yeah.
What's your favorite Halloween candies? We should go around. We talk about it. I mean, I love Risa's peanut butter cups. Oh, yeah.
Old school. Yeah. All right. Delicious. What about pieces?
Yeah. I love pieces, but I mean it's funny enough, they're kind of hard to find as the um, you know, Halloween treat size. Really? Yeah, I find them hard to find. I had you I had York Peppermint Patties last night.
I kind of like hit hoarded a few of them. Um, but to uh to your uh to your statement about the full size, a neighbor came by the house, and uh he's like, hey, uh I'm not giving out candy, but give out the this candy. And he brought all these full-size candy bars, and I was blowing minds. Wow, yeah, I know, right? Blowing minds.
Yeah, kids, their eyes pop out of their heads. Their eyes pop out of their heads. When you when you show up with a giant bowl of full-size candy, they're like, what the you know what I mean? And then you really see what happens because some people go into Lord of the Flies mode and they try to get as much as they can. And I I'm okay with a little bit of greediness on a Halloween.
I'm okay with a little bit, but there's a there's a limit. There's a limit. I don't share candy. Yeah, no? No.
No. No. Do you know what I thought was something that only I liked? That then the kids went, it changes. So if you if you give candy out, this is why like you shouldn't only give candy out when you have kids.
You should give out candy all the time so you can see how tastes change. Because year to year it's different. Like it, like uh years ago, all the sour stuff went like first. You know, sour stuff went first. Then a couple of years ago, right before the pandemic, I this I went for like uh a bunch of paydays, because I love the payday.
It's a good candy bar. It's not chocolate based, right? It's good candy bars. It's a good candy bar. And people, the kids went nuts for payday.
Like I like the payday, and I those those are the ones I thought I would I hope they had left over. Because I'm like, oh, payday. You know what I mean? And they they they got obliterated. But I have to say, uh, I had recently had that kind of that Reesus pay bail payday alike that also has chocolate.
It's like caramel and peanuts and and I've seen that. I've never bought it. It's called like, what is it called? Like take five or something like that? Yeah, take five.
But the lion bar is the best one. I've never had a line bar. Lion bar from Cadbury. Yeah. Yeah.
You know what? I don't know. You find it everywhere in Europe, but like specialty stores here. Yeah. Quinn, what's your what's your what's your favorite uh Canadian bar there?
Uh I mean, it's uh it's not Canadian specific. Again, I really like a Canadian Smartie, which is not like American Timurdies. It's basically uh a sticker shelled MM. Okay. So that's pretty good.
Yeah. Another really nostalgic chocolate, like really, you know, water barrel in terms of like production quality is a Hershey's cookies and cream. That's classic. I do have to say, Quinn, I do think about those hickory sticks you sent us. I think about those all the time.
They're really good. Do you what about candy thing, the c those coffee crisps, you also like those things, right? The coffee crisps. Yeah, they're they're good. But they're not like in the top.
Yeah, I forgot. Those are your dad's choice. You're like, those are my dad's. My dad liked that. I don't know why he's sending you stuff that he likes.
I like them. I like them. I like them. They're just not on the top millist. Oh, by the way, Dylan, if you boil to a higher temperature, uh, you'll get a higher solids ratio.
And you can do the you know what I'm I hate doing? I hate doing the old school tests where you take your sugar or whatever and you drop it into water and see if it sets. Does that ever work? What trick is this? Uh to test syrup temperatures.
It's like you drop you get cold water and you drop a little bit of the thing in and you see whether it's I hate it. The other one I hate doing is I mean, with yeah. Sorry, with the jam. I've never done a uh cold water test. I've done the cold plate.
Yeah, I hate that. Is that what you're gonna talk about? Yeah, yeah. I hate that too. I hate them all.
Candy is the cold water test. I hate that. And you gotta stick your hand in the water and try to judge how the ball feels when you're doing like a hard candy thing. I hate it. And then, like, oh, it's threads, it's this, it's that.
I hate it all. I hate all of those tests. Accurate candy thermometer is a good test. You know what I mean? Yeah.
And honestly, with a jelly, I have to say, it's better to go a little harder than a little softer. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Always.
Hey, do you know what's an instruction that I've always hated? Uh, that I just now realized what the what was going on with it. Can I tell you? Go for it. Beans.
So, beans. Uh so if you've ever like looked at an old school recipe for baked beans, they tell you to cook the beans until when you blow on it, the skin splits. You've heard this? No. You look up any old school, like Maine or like Northeast recipe for baked beans, and it's always the same wording.
Cook the beans until when you blow on it, the skin breaks. And if you take a fully cooked bean and blow on it, you know what doesn't happen? Skin breaks. Yeah, it doesn't happen. Does not happen.
But I was doing a test, which I'm gonna write about soon, uh, for what I what is it? What's that? Uh serious seeds, right? Uh, where I needed to cool the beans rapidly. All right.
So I took the cooked beans, which were cooked to what I think is cooked, where you know, these people say stop, and I immediately poured the entire pan of beans, which were intact into a sheet tray, okay, to get the layer as thin as possible so it could cook off. And you know what happened? The skin split. So I think what the blowing on the beans until the skin split means is if it flashes off heat energy and the skin then flashes off and dries, it's weak enough at that point to split because as it's drying, it opens up. So when I looked at my pan, all the beans underneath the surface of the liquid were intact, and all the ones at the surface had popped open just like that recipe is.
So that's what they mean by blowing on it. You're actually trying to cool it and like get get like you have to get a bunch of beans up so that the bottom is hot and you blow on it to cool it off. And if if the strength of it, the cooling ruptures, if the if the dehydration and cooling ruptures the skin, that's what they mean. But then I had all those popped beans. I was so bent.
Because I had like been so careful not to pop the beans, and then I dumped them all into a tray and they all popped. Son of a son of a shim. Which means I still need to think of a good way to cool beans quickly. Yeah. I mean, I was using the evaporation to cool beans because uh originally I was cooling the beans by throwing ice cubes into them, but you know, you're only getting like uh 80 calories per gram out of an ice cube.
You know what I mean? And I was gonna cook them again anyway, so it doesn't matter if I'm adding a little extra water. Yeah. Right. But it's just too much.
Yeah. Right? Like Quinn and I were calculating this before, and to chill a couple kilos of beans down to where I needed them, you'd need like for every two kilos of beans, we needed like what, like 800 grams of ice or something like that, Quinn? It was something stupid. It was some stupid, yeah, some dumb number.
You know what I mean? Whereas uh evaporation is like, you know, eight times more efficient. So if you evaporate off like even a small amount, it cools it relatively quickly. Not to mention, right? You know, you it's easier to cool over a large surface area.
Yeah. But I can't use evaporation as a cooling mechanism if I'm gonna split all my freaking beans. Freaking beans, like a big block of ice in a bag or something. I have done blocks of ice in bags before, but it's not nearly as efficient because you get insulation effects. You need to stir it around all of the time.
You need to do a lot of stirring. Like uh ice in a liquid because of the mixing is extremely efficient. So you could. I mean, like uh they used to sell these. Uh you ever use one of those ice paddles, John?
You ever seen those? No. They're stock paddles. So it looks like a cricket bat, but it's blue. And uh, and you freeze them, and then you're supposed to stir your stock with this cricket bat.
Oh, I've seen those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can so you can keep your stock in a stockpot and get it down in under four hours. Yeah. But what a pain, man.
What a pain. Nobody likes that. No. So yeah, no. Not a fan.
And then some people they're like, oh, maybe we could use a uh a wart chiller, right? They're doing using wart chillers on their stock. It's it all sucks. It turns out it all sucks. The easiest way on a stock is to pour the stuff into hotel pans, let it flash off, then rebatch it when it gets cold enough, right?
Yeah. But it's a pain. Yes, it is. Cooling stock's a pain. Yeah.
It really is. Uh answer Dylan's question, you think? Yeah. Okay. Uh Kyle Kelly uh wrote in, hey Dave, wanted to experiment making a Coca-Cola foam in an EC whipper.
Any thoughts on a uh method of stabilizers you suggest was aiming for an airy sea foam type of result? Thanks. We didn't deal with this. What would you do? Uh air sea foam type of Coca-Cola C foam.
I do mainly dense. I don't do C foamy stuff. Most C foamy stuff is less than. What? Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say for like a really lazy foam.
I think I've mainly seen less itin with like a little vent into the body. But I wouldn't uh very light. I wouldn't do it in an EC. I would do the old school one where you stick it into a core container and then put an immersion blender in it at an angle such that the blades go up and then down, up and then down, up and then down, and you we and then you would harvest the foam off the top. That's what we always used to do.
I've seen I've seen people use uh like uh a brand new, like little soap dispenser. Brand new what? Uh the ones that like turn the soap into foam. Oh yeah. The problem with any sort of direct dispense is is that only a portion of stuff that's gonna be sea foamy actually becomes sea foamy, and then you're left with a lot of liquid left over.
So if you actually want to make foam, the easiest thing to do is to use the immersion blender because you're literally harvesting the foam off the top of the liquid, and then guess what? Your your liquid's ready to go again. Yeah. Because there's always excess lessithin and whatever else you need in that, always an excess. So you can whip it like people used to do with carrot juice all the time.
Now it's thinking carrot juice foam on everything. And these, you know, carrot juice because it's naturally kind of foamy anyway, and then it hit it with some lesson, and then you have it in the core container and you could use it all service. Yeah. All service. I mean, you know, that's what I would do.
Uh how much time do I have? 36 seconds? Craig where a million years ago you had it on the old blog post about nixtimalizing rye grains. Uh, did that experiment yield any significant results? I think you mentioned using lie as well, but uh, one of the risk associated.
If you have any ratios to share? The ratios are on the blog, which still can be found if you look up rye nixamalization cooking issues. It's just like none of the links necessarily work right. Um, yeah, you need the lie because uh calcium uh hydroxide is not strong enough on its own to break down uh the outside of rye before it gets too mushy. So it's a quick lie and then cal.
Uh and I'll the results were it was freaking delicious, but a huge pain in the uh behind because the uh the pentazans make the dough extremely sticky, like you would have for uh rye bread, but worth doing once. Cooking issues.
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