Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, New Stan Studios, joined as usual with uh Gene. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. I called you Gene because I just said Gene to my Siri.
Excellent. Siri doesn't know that Gene's name is John. So when I'm walking to this place and I'm like huffing and puffing because I ride a bike here, I say text Gene Nahowell, which is not his name. And so then for about five minutes, John's name is still Gene in my head. Sorry, John.
That's all good. It happens a lot. It shouldn't happen to me, though. We've known each other for years. Yeah, that's true.
I know, but yeah, you actually say it to other people. Yeah, when I just don't want to deal with it. Just need to leave my name somewhere. I told you Dax doesn't bother mutilating his name. He just says his name is Jeff or Brad.
Yeah. Like when he goes to uh Starbucks. They're like, Max, no, Brad. And that's it. Yeah, yeah.
Uh Rocking the panels over here in New York, we got Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing great. Great to see you. Yeah, good to see you as well.
And on Vancouver Island, we got Queen Quinn Quinn Quinn Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. You uh you uh doing some strong Q dragon work over there. Yeah, yeah.
Do what I do. Yeah, nice. All right. Uh and uh together again in Los Angeles, we have the uh West Coast Cooking Issues crew, we got Nastasia Lopez and Jackie Molecules. How you doing?
Good. Good. It's uh storming here. Oh yeah. That's right.
Yeah. So now, but you guys uh uh like as long as you don't drown, you're pro storm because your reservoirs are filming, like what's the story? I think so. I think so. Yeah, but people are dying, so that's not good.
Yeah. There's no wins. No winning. Uh no winning. No winning.
Uh the you know what the the new huge win is small losses. Small losses are the new huge win. Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah.
And uh in the in, you know, our new year's way of doing this, uh, our we're gonna shoot the breeze with our special guest. Our special guest today is Rebecca Flint Marks, uh, the senior editor uh at Eater Eater at home beat. How are you doing? Okay, thank you. Yeah, and I found out, I just found out that we used to live before you moved to San Francisco.
You came back here to New York. What is it with San Francisco and New York, by the way? Oh man, that's a great question. I think for me, when I first started going to San Francisco as a New Yorker of about 10 years, I loved it because it seemed to have a lot of things that New York had. It had a lot of good food, really interesting people, people who read books, really pretty things to see, things to do.
Uh, and I think it's for me, it was like a more accessible New York, which was it's a that's a very uh New York bias, obviously, to put on any place, uh, particularly San Francisco, because it is nothing like New York whatsoever. Yeah, so then like were you, because I'm not gonna say like who in my family is like. Well, maybe eventually you'll maybe you'll figure it out if you know my family, but it yeah, they moved to new to San Francisco and they're like, I can do this, I can do this. It's like, you know, and then they're like, no, I can't do this. Yeah, it it's weird.
It was I remember getting out there, and I first lived in North Beach, which if you're familiar with San Francisco, even if you're not, you probably know North Beach is like a really beautiful part of town. It is one of the most beautiful parts of town you can live in. It's like everywhere you are just surrounded by beauty as soon as you leave your home. And I remember walking my dog around the neighborhood and thinking to myself, all this useless beauty, and I have no idea what to do with it. And I I never felt more like a New Yorker than I did when I moved to San Francisco.
And eventually, I think what bothered me the most, even though there was a lot I loved about the city, was there was I missed the energy, and I realized how addicted I was to New York's energy. You just cannot get that out there. If you go out there expecting you're gonna have even a modicum of that, you you won't you yeah, you're gonna go crazy. Or if you even expect to have a 24-hour bodega. Yeah, that's the other thing.
The streets are so empty. There's like nothing open past like nine o'clock at night. The neighborhood I was living in after Noah or after North Beach was Noah Valley. Nothing. It was like a ghost town, and it was the eerie thing in the world because I was like, I'm technically in the middle of a city, a real legitimate American city, yet there's nobody on the streets here.
It was it was the strangest thing. I never could get used to it. Yeah, it's bizarre. It's bizarre. Uh I get a feeling from what you said that uh you and I share a trait that Nastasia uh detests about me.
And that is uh, so Nastasia, when you say to me, when I when you say to me, Hey, I saw the most beautiful sunset, what do I say? I've seen every sunset. Yeah, who cares? I've seen it all. Seen those sunsets, I see the sunset.
So what? You know what I mean? Like I'm that guy that went to the Grand Canyon and I was like, hole in the ground, nice. And then left and then left. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Nastasi's like, you have no soul. Am I right, Nastasi? Is that roughly correct? Yes, that's true.
But you do like trees. Love trees. Because trees provide an ongoing, they an ongoing kind of calming effect on me. Like, you know, like they change over time. I can like I can observe them.
They provide with me with shade because the sun's my enemy, I'm half a vampire. You know what I mean? It's like, you know. Okay. Dave, see the sunset changes over time and provides you with shade because the sun is your enemy.
The sun's going away. It should calm you. It's correct. You're correct. You're correct.
I don't know what it is. But Nastasi and I are like this in one way. I think maybe you'll agree with this, uh, Rebecca, is that we hate it when other people do things because something else is beautiful because the weather is nice. So you mean like, for example. Well, so like when the first day, you know, the first couple of days of springy weather, and I mean now it's always like it's always like half a spring here in New York because of the way things happening.
But it's like, you know, when everyone started saying that they could do X, Y, and Z again because the weather was nice, Nastasia would hates that. Hear you. Yeah. It's like it's like mandated that you have to do it. So it kind of takes the fun out of just doing anything spontaneously.
And I'm one of these people who, if everyone else is doing it, I don't I don't want to do it. I'm very contrarian that way. So yeah. Yeah, well, maybe you know, the three of us can uh go out. Uh we'll maybe we'll go to uh John's restaurant sometime.
It sounds like we can hang out and have a drink because we have similar uh you know we can be grumpy together. Oh my god. If three grumpy people get together, right at a bar, do we does it is it grumpy cubed or does it cancel? Is it like out of phase grumpiness? What do you think happens?
Ooh, might just be a matter of like immediate self destruction. I don't know. Or it's like I I I can't even imagine. Well, watch out, John. Or you get Seinfeld.
I think maybe that's what happens. I don't think any of this, I think it's all past us getting that rich. Uh all right. So any of you guys have anything uh any this is the part of the show where we talk about food things that we've done over the past week. Jack does, Jack does, Jack says.
Jack says? Jack does. Oh, yeah, yeah. She wants me to tell a story. Alright, so it'll be quick.
So uh Peter Kim, who we all know, friend of the show, stayed at my apartment during the holidays. In Los Angeles. In Los Angeles, while I was at Sean's apartment. And uh Peter had a wild old time, and I got home and there was a bottle of wine on my table, which is very nice with a note. And I noticed as I looked at the wine, which I didn't recognize that it was five percent ABV, which is really confused Nastasia now.
Chateau Diane? He got you a bottle of Chateau Diane? What? Red sweet wine it says on it. It's a weird name.
Lina Costa Rosa. Gina of the Red House. Yeah. Yo. Five percent.
So what else, Jack? What else? That apartment was a mess. Let me ask you a question, Jack. Did does does this five percent wine come with a baby bottle nipple on top of it?
Like, what are you supposed to do with this thing? We did leave children's jewelry on my dad. Oh, that's his. Come on, man. No, no, no, we don't know.
He went to a he went to a rave and then Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah, he went to I apparently went to a rave the night before and then had to rush out of the house. Hold a sec, hold a second. I would like the record to say that I love Peter Kim and I'm thrilled he had a good time on my house.
I'm not upset about any of this. Hold on, hold on, huh? They still have raves. Oh yeah, yeah, sure. But like, is it like I'm trying to think, is it like uh when you go to a rave and you're and you're like a young person, let's say you're a young person, you go to a rave.
Is that the equivalent of like someone my generation going to see like a college presentation of Hara the musical? Like, I mean, it's like No, no, they've they've they've they're still getting weird. All right. Yeah, and Peter Kim was there with them. Well, you know, I can picture that in a in a very that's a good story.
Not necessarily food related. I was hoping for a food-related story. I guess the wine. It's wine related. Gina, Gina, what is it?
Gina Castle Casaroso. Not Castelrosso. She hasn't live in a castle. She lives in a red house. Little Rudhouse by the Lane, pumping out that 5% ABV.
What do you think she dopes? So she dopes it with sugar and water. She takes over. It's got aromas and flavors of boysenberry, creme brulee, cherry soda float, and strawberry. A fun flavor-packed ride with balanced sweetness, acidity, and varietal characters.
John, hold up. Hold up. John. John. John, wait, John, wait, John.
John. Back back it up. That's one bottle has that? Yes. Can you please read that list again?
Aromas and flavors of boysenberry creme brulee, cherry soda float, and strawberry. Wait, wait. Oh my god. Wait, hey Anastasia, whenever we're in Los Angeles, where do we shop? Ralph!
Oh my god. That's a terrible description. Oh my god. You know what? You know what?
It's like someone at a flavor house was like, we only have a little bit left of all these flavors. What are we gonna do? Mix them all together. Dump them all together. Oh my god.
Trying to see if that's every description of it. Do you have it on you right now? Yes. Open it. Oh, it's really early here.
Oh, pen it for the crew. Open it and taste it. What does it smell like? It smells really sweet. It sounds like it's what you would get like an IHOP with all when you mix all the syrups in.
Oh my god. Oh my god, there's some memories. Can you kick? Did you already uncrack it? Can you crack it on the mic so I can hear the cap?
I want to hear the cap. That is the real description they've put out there. It's in multiple places. You can't really hear it. All right.
Oh, it's kind of fizzy. Oh. Oh my god. It's like it's like it's like Rhea Needy and filth. Surprised it's not sold in that hazmat computer.
Make sure you let it breathe. It's like complete done. Yeah. In a good way? Wow.
Um if you were 18, would you get all crunked up on this or not? Probably. Probably, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And go to a remote. Like, okay, now that now that you've had a couple of seconds, how poisonous is the aftertaste? It's uh sticky. So, like when I was in the soda float would be uh the on the tail end of the side. Oh, the cherry soda float.
Got it. Okay. I was uh accurate. I was too old for uh for loco, but the four loco equivalent when I was trying to buy things like this was called Cisco. And Cisco was like a 20% ABV wine cooler, and that had some poisonous aftertaste to it.
So imagine it I'm trying to imagine if this uh if this uh Gina of the Red House was 20 instead of five, like what it would taste like, because that's what they would have been drinking when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so funny because there's so much wine at every single store here, like so much money that Peter would be like, you know, this one. Is he punking you?
I don't think so. It was wrapped in Christmas paper, Jack. Wow. The Christmas paper costs more. First of all, here's the order of cost.
The most expensive thing in that is the bottle that it went into. Because I know how much bottles cost, right? Then the wrapping paper, then the liquid. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Wow. Wow. That's uh oh well, you know what? Ding, that was awesome. I love it.
I love it. Now uh Rebecca, I know that your beat is uh like things that people can do like at home, right? But on the other hand, one of it your favorite things of the things that I've read of uh of yours on Eater is uh to talk to restaurant folks either after they come out with uh chefs, after they come out with a book or after they whatever, and get a recipe that is good for home with them, right? Yep. But I have that doubt that's gonna happen with uh Noma, and I know Quinn wants us to talk about the Noma clothes.
Poly Noma. NOMA NOMARY forage for Doma. Make a reindeer heart, like find some lichen and put it in a blender. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got nothing to say.
Yeah, no, it's who they mean. I I have you been? I never I haven't either. No. And obviously I'm never gonna go.
I was yeah, you know, in the next two years you can't cut, I'm sure that that went like this all the way to the city. I mean, that's the thing. It's yeah, I think probably yeah, within the first 15 seconds. The only time I ever had his food was uh you remember um you remember Cortan? Sort of.
Oh, uh Paul when Paul. Drew Nipront had uh oh I forgot that was that was where Chanterell was, right? Yes, yes, so Chanterelle and right, and then that closed, right? And then Corton with Paul Lee Brandt uh after he had left Guilt, right? Yes, right.
Yes. Where guilt, the highest food costs, like like crazy food costs. I was talking to Paul Librant. I don't know what he's doing these days. But anyway, I was talking to him, he was like, I'm not gonna do his accent because I can't do like I can only, you know, whatever, I'm not gonna do his accent.
So like he used to order those, uh you know those freaking Scottish prawns that come individually styro packed in water, right? Like upright, and he's like, yeah, and they're half dead. So like I was like, what the hell? He's like, I don't know, throw them away, family meal. I'm like, what?
You know, it's his food costs were just like, whoa! That's wow. How is that sustainable? I guess it wasn't. It's not.
Yeah. No, but I think like there was an error, and that's so well, that's you know, to the point of the Red Zeppy thing, is like that was a point in time when you know it was still like people were trying to do this kind of like ultimate ultimate. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
And so anyway, so when he opened uh Corton, I think I went there twice, and one of the times uh Rennie Rizeppi was doing a pop-up at Corton. So I that's the only time I've had his uh food. Oh, was it? It was good, yeah. You know, it's good.
I like I I uh uh I I like high I like high-end food. I like seeing what people can do, but I don't necessarily everyone's gonna hate me now. I don't in I don't enjoy it more than any other well-executed thing, other than I like seeing what people can do. I like the craft of it. I like the artistry and the thought.
I like seeing what the kind of apogee of like a certain kind of achievement can be. But I don't necessarily crave it. I absolutely do not. And I sound like a Philistine, probably because I am, but I just I've never I appreciate it from an artistic standpoint. I remember interviewing Corey Lee at Bennu once.
And uh I never went, I never went. I only went to interview him. I cannot speak to the food. I I went to In Situ, his other restaurant, it was lovely. Um, but I just remember thinking like being in this sort of temple of a restaurant space.
I felt very conscious of what I didn't know, but also what I didn't actually crave, if that makes any sense. Yeah. Like I appreciate it. I really appreciate what people do. It is an art form, but I think for me, it's never been anything where I felt like I need to experience it for myself.
Well, I mean, also like uh there's a certain there's a certain uh aspect of anything that's kind of different, right? So like I remember like, you know, in the early 2000s, kind of the shock of this new style of cooking, and you're like, wow, and it is awesome, like the first like couple of times. Not not not, you know, Red Zeppes stuff, but I mean like what was going on in the early 2000s here in in the US, right? You know, riding the kind of Spanish invasion that came in. And it was truly exciting and like the the energy of cooking and like learning these new techniques and doing all this stuff was awesome.
And you know, I was glad to be around the people that were doing it, and I loved going out and having it because it was fun and all that. But again, you don't need to eat any sort of high-end food that often. It's I think better when you when it's spaced out. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, look, when I lived in San Francisco, one of the best meals I ever had was at Meadowwood. I was fortunate to be able to do that. It was really, really good. I mean, like, I so I can appreciate that. Like, like I was happy to have had that experience.
Like Chris Costa was lovely, the restaurant was lovely. Everything we ate was like a small miracle on a plate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but like, did I want to eat like that the next night? Absolutely not.
You know, like I I find that that kind of thing, it's it's a little like fashion to me, you know, where it's like I love like the feel of like, say, like a designer coat that probably costs like $7,500, right? And I I love knowing it's there. I love like experience it in some way, but am I gonna go out and like try and emulate that on a daily basis and you know, wear something like that? Probably not. Well, the problem is also for me, like I would just wear it every day, it'd become filthy and busted, and then people would be like, Why are you what what?
Yeah, you know, I'm not gonna buy a new thing every day. Like a $7,500 dust rag, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. So, no, it's like I think there's a place for it.
And it's interesting, you know, all these discussions people have been having around the closure of NOMA. What does this mean for fine dining? I mean, there's always gonna be a place for it. You're always gonna have people who are gonna like want to jet around the world and go to these restaurants that they can collect like runes, you know, and that's great. But and you know, and I think that kind of cooking should still be there because again, like fashion, you see it trickle down, right?
To where it influences a lot of different chefs at a lot of different levels. And so, in some way, the wider populace, you know, gets to partake of that in some way, shape, or form. Um, but you know, when I read that NOMA was closing, I didn't really have any reaction to it. I mean, it's like it's like, yeah, it's the end of an era for sure, but it's it's a really it's a complicated thing, you know. So I maybe if I had been there, maybe if I had felt a personal connection, I would have, I don't know, had a different reaction.
I also never ate at El Boole. I should have gone because of my job. The problem is is that because of my job, I should have gone. Like that's the issue. I'm that kind of a jerk, which is what Nastasia always tells me.
And so I was like, you need to go out more, right? Yeah, I agree with Nastasia. Oh my god. Your restaurant. Yeah, it's it's really.
I have I have been, I have been, just not when there. But how many restaurants? Oh, whatever. Well I tried to go. I know.
Tip, I'm just always gonna give you a hard time about this until you come, you just need to accept it. Okay. You need to go to restaurants. I don't understand why you work in food if you don't go to restaurants. Or bars.
Yeah, really. You work in food and you don't even like food or food people. I like I love food. I love food. Okay.
I hate people. Yeah. Uh geez Louise. Okay. Um, so Quinn, is that enough talk?
Is that enough NOMA talk? Is that not what you were expecting as I say like? I thought it was noteworthy to talk about. It is noteworthy, sure. You know, I mean, I I I wish I could have gone.
I would have liked to have gone. I would like to go to Denmark, period. It would be nice to stop at NOMA while there. I was there for two hours. The train station, amazing.
Not really. It was a train station. Absolute flew us in to Copenhagen, and then we took a train to Scona to, you know, visit where they grow the wheat and where they make the the absolute. And there endeth my Copenhagen story. Yeah.
Right. That was it. It's a great story. Yeah, you like it? Yeah.
I can say this. Danish sounds weird. It's it's weird. It's like it's like sounds like a cross between like an actual Scandinavian language and German. It's weird.
I don't know. Closest I've ever gotten was Finland, which I loved. Oh yeah? Highly recommended. I'd love to go.
It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Helsinki, go in the summer, uh, when it never gets dark. It is an astoundingly beautiful place.
Uh, especially if you're into Art Nouveau architecture or architecture in general. Yeah. Design uh and food. The fish market there, it's just open air fish market you go to, you buy this beautiful smoked fish and go eat it in a park. It's heaven.
I like smoked fish. Yeah. Yeah. I like Finnish TV shows. I forget the name of I like a watch all the you see the Finnish cop show?
No. Yeah. No. I forget the name of it. Whatever.
Whatever. You know, when you watch something at like one or two AM, it's like you're half asleep anyway, so you know you've watched it, but you can't remember anything about it. Does this happen to you? Yeah, that happened to me last night. I was trying to watch Tar.
Who was that about? It's Kate Blanchette's movie that came out earlier this year where she plays uh the orchestra conductor. Oh yeah. Who basically, yeah, it's it's of it's sort of her downfall. The movie is about that.
Um people love, love, love this movie. I was fortunate to get a screener of it, and it took me three sittings to get through it because I kept falling asleep. But is that like because it was boring or because of just the time of day? Uh little bit. A little bit both.
Let's say it's a little bit both. Yeah. She's great. She's great. She's all yeah, and she's on scene right.
She's great. Yeah, she's great, great, great. Just yeah, just wasn't keeping me as awake as I yeah. Well, I also noticed uh that you uh you wrote and I I have to say, maybe Nastasia, when you were younger, did you watch movies? Do you stop watching them because you hate going to them and you don't like like cable?
Did you used to watch movies or were you never a huge movie person? Nastasia. I guess they're on mute. But you know, any modern movie, she's like, I don't watch that. Really?
No, yeah. Oh. I mean, I see I'll I'll go see pretty much anything. Yeah. Within reason.
She doesn't like movie theaters. Oh, well, I'm I agree with that. I used to love movie theaters. I used to like love going to the movies. Love if if she can unmute her mic or whatever, like uh I'm listening to you.
You know, but so like what is it that you hate about movie theaters? It's not the COVID. What is it? The people's hands and bags of chips and the sound of them chewing things and laughing. Any signs of humanity.
So she actually prefers a COVID movie theater because there's fewer people doing that. No, or watching at home or a private screening room, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you also don't like the idea of paying some you don't like the idea of streaming either very much. I I don't watch things because I don't like to feel things.
I did watch the menu though. I was uh uh Austin came over to my house and we had dinner, and he was like, You have to watch the menu. And oh my god, have you all seen it? No. Crazy.
No, yeah. What's it about? What's it about? I'll let the guests explain it. Well, I will preface this by saying without Noma, we would not have had the menu because the menu is all about fine dining.
It's about a chef played by Ray Fines, who has a very exclusive restaurant on a small island and only a few guests at a time come to the island. So on this particular night, he has his guests come to the island and without wanting to give away any spoilers, basically serves them a meal they will never ever forget. I'm guessing people get eaten. Uh no, surprisingly, surprisingly, but it is, you know, there is a certain level of bodily harm that is that is exacted among crazy babe. You have to see it.
You all have to see it. It's great. Well, let me ask you this. So back when you were younger, Nastasia, did you ever watch the movie uh Baby Boom? That was j I just missed that.
I was not watching rom coms when I was a junior in high school when that thing came out. So it's like it exact like later in life, once I became a more integrated human being, I'm like, the rom com has its place. You know what I mean? But like as a you know, a full of angst uh, you know, alternative music listening, like suburban like white kid in the in the mid late 80s. I wasn't watching romance.
Not happening. Yeah, yeah. But so but do you watch that style? Is anyone here a baby boom and baby boom fam? Any Keaton fans?
I watched it last I watched it last year. I didn't watch it when it came. All right, right. So you so you and Rebecca need to talk. So what's your premise with the baby bro?
I mean, what is it about? Or like Well no, like what like what yeah, you're saying it's like it's it's predictive of a larger tree. Oh, sure, yeah. I mean, and I didn't even realize this. Cause so I first saw Baby Boom when I was a kid.
And so to me it was just this fun movie with Diane Keaton moving to Vermont. It was great. I loved it. I couldn't, I didn't really know why I loved it, except that it was fun. And it was only as an adult, after years and years of like covering the New York food scene and just the food scene in general, that I went back and watched it.
I was like, oh my God, this movie completely predicted like the Ots artisan food boom because the whole premise of baby boom is that Diane Keaton is this like high flying career lady who basically inherits a baby from a dead relative, as you do. Like a literal baby, an actual living baby. Uh, and decides initially she's not gonna keep it, then she decides she's gonna keep it, and basically that interferes with her high flying career as some sort of consultant. I'm not exactly sure what kind, but in any case, she ends up quitting her job. She's kind of forced out by the men there.
She ends up leaving New York for Vermont, uh, buying this like 200-year-old farmhouse with these apple orchards, and starts making baby food, like applesauce, basically, and it turns into like this whole like company. So it's like she's marketing it as like this artisan applesauce baby food, and people start buying it. It becomes this whole thing, and there's like this rapid montage of like the business growing and growing and growing, and eventually, yeah, she's like the owner of this like artisan baby food company. That's weird because that never would have happened in the 80s, but totally could have happened in like 07. Yeah.
Right, right. But so it was it was eerie like watching this. I was like, oh my God, this is like the artisan food boom playbook. Like all that was missing was like a stall at like the New Amsterdam market or something. It was or Smorgesburg.
It was crazy. Yeah, yeah. So it's I I I love this movie. It is a flawed movie. I'm not gonna say it's a perfect movie.
It's a Nancy Myers movie. Nancy Myers movies have certain issues uh that attend them, but that's okay. It's like it's just a really fun movie. I love it. And what uh what art forum does not have its issues?
I mean, this is this is true. Yeah, this is true. I mean, especially anything that I watched when I was a kid, when you go back and watch it, you're like, oh god. Oh, it's all oh god. You know what I mean?
Oh yeah, yeah. No, I one of my favorite things to do is watch movies that I watched as a child and sort of pinpoint, oh that that's really a problem. What percentage of the things we gotta get back to food, but what percentage of the things you watch when you rewatch them, are you like flawed, but still good? Oh gosh. I would say probably 35 to 40 percent.
Are still good? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I maybe I'm being generous, but that that's the number that comes to mind, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, gotta you have to cut out the John Hughes movies, though. Like that's the main thing. Just yeah, don't don't try and count the John Hughes movies. Yeah, I uh I wonder, Style, what about you? What do you think is a hold-up number?
Oh god, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm thankful when a movie still holds up at all. Like I like, I was like, because you know, except when you have kids, right?
You know, Joe, you're gonna happen to you, right? You you show your kids you go back and you watch these movies you love when you were a kid, and you're like, do I need to look at it first? Like, what's gonna happen? Like, assume sexism and racism, like straight, straight out the gate, you know what I mean? Uh but then you're like, is it still even gonna be funny?
You know what I mean? So like you show the blues brothers too, you know, my kid, you know, my kid Daxman is like, oh, thank god. I mean it's still funny. You know what I mean? And the music is still great.
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, but yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard. I just watched the money pit. Was it still good?
Still good. Still good. It's still very funny. Did you get I I think Wendell Pierce had a cameo in that? Did you get a chance?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was great. What's the worst movie you've rewatched where you're like, oh wow, stinker? Oh boy. There's a lot of them, actually.
I mean. One you legitimately liked when you were a kid. This happened to me with Space Jam. Like, that movie's really good. It's a bad movie.
Oh, God. But like you legitimately thought it was good when you were a kid. Of course. Is Space Jam the one with Bugs Bunny and The Martian and Michael Jordan? Yeah.
Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Was that an old Mel Blank who couldn't do the voices anymore, or is kid who can't do the voices? Oh, good question.
I'm not even sure. Let's see. Nothing's more sad than Mel Blank not being able to do his own voices. Yeah. Yeah, sad.
Well, what movie does kind of like still hold up? And I was when you were talking about the menu, and I haven't seen the menu yet, but the cook, the thief, his wife, her lover. I didn't like that when it came out. Because it was so gross to me. And then this there's that one scene where they're eating the body.
Yeah. Then you watch it again. You're like, wow, this is a masterpiece. It's like a play on film. Oh, yeah.
So when I was like 19 when I saw it, you know, in an art house thing at college, it was already a couple years old. I'm like, let me guess, they're gonna eat the J-bar. Oh, they're eating the J Bar. It's boring. You know what I mean?
I hated it. I still I like Tempopo, though. I'm sure that's still good. Tampopo holds up. Oh, yeah.
That movie's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Uh the worst movie that I liked as a kid, Crocodile Dundee. That is a dumpster fire from start to finish.
That keeps showing up on HBO Max for some reason. Both of them. They should put it in HBO Min. Yeah. No, it's crazy.
HBO Max is like a treasure trove of now kind of dodgy movies from the city. But also gems. Yes, so many sounds. And all this criterion stuff keeps showing up on there. I'm like, what is this?
Yeah. Yeah. Food. Food. Yes.
Food. All right. So one of so one of the things that you see, my what do you guys call? First of all, people are gonna want to know. Moving from being a writer to an editor at like a huge place like Eater, what's that?
Do you like that? What's the difference? Like, and if I'm pitching an article to you, how does that work? Like, what's the best way to pitch an article to you? Uh, just email me, basically.
Email me. So technically, that is the way to pitch an article to me. Uh, the better way to pitch an article to me is to email me, but to also do your research before you pitch your article. So, what does that mean? What does that mean?
That means, so I mean, it's funny. I've talked to students, like journalism students, writing students about this before. And like, I think the biggest thing is like, why should I care about your story? Like, why? Uh, is it timely?
Does it tell me something I don't know, or that you know, I think probably a lot of readers don't know or don't understand? Uh, why are you the best person to write the story? Do you have some sort of experience with the topic you're pitching that would make me think, you know, you should write this. Also, is it a story or is it a subject that you're pitching me? Like, you know, there's so much that goes into it.
A lot of people, you see this a lot with food. You see this a lot with food essays more than anything else. A lot of people pitch essays where it's like, you know, I learned to appreciate, say, porridge, uh, because a family member died, and this got me through my family members. Are you making this up or is this an actual pitch? Um, this is not an actual pitch, it is an amalgam of many, many, many pitches I've gotten, and I do not mean to diminish the people who are sending these pitches because we all have a story, right?
We we all have a story we want to tell. You replace porridge with kanji and people want to read it though. That's true. It's true though. And this is the thing, though, there's become a certain paint by numbers approach people take to food writing and food essays, where it's like, and again, I don't mean to sound glib here, but it's it you notice certain patterns when you get a lot of these pitches.
It's like people want to talk about things that have happened to them, whether they're good or they're bad, usually bad, actually. People are far more inclined to want to talk about the bad things that have happened to them, which I do understand uh as a writer myself, uh, this is how you work things out, right? But they want to talk about it through the prism of food. And it can be done well. You know, obviously we've seen plenty of examples of this being done really, really well.
But a lot of it isn't really executed well. And a lot of it comes from not really a solid idea of, you know, how do you tell a certain story? It's a very um, it's it I think it's one of these things that looks really easy when you read it on the page because you're seeing this great finished product that's very cohesive. It's probably been edited a lot. The writer's probably also really good.
A lot of people think it's easy to do. It is absolutely not easy to do. So, like, or to do well. Um, so yeah, when when people pitch me, I I want to know like why, why you, why this story? Um is the main problem with that whole kind of genre that it's very difficult to understand what's going to be interesting to people who don't know you or care about you.
I mean, I do think when you are writing a personal essay, there is there is an onus on the writer to like make it universal, as they say. Like, like even even say like a terrible tragedy happened to you. This happened to you, but like why this is gonna I'm gonna sound like a jerk when I say this, but like why should anyone else care? Like what will readers like look at in this story and be able to take to their own lives, or how will it resonate to a wider audience? And I think that's the thing a lot of people don't understand.
It's like what separates what you're pitching me from something that belongs in a diary, you know? And I think that's what a lot of people don't get past. But yeah, I'm sure most of I'm sure most of the stuff you get just kind of is not good. I mean, frankly, you know, it's it's not where it needs to be. But is it is I think I feel like there's more of a place for that kind of writing to be great now than there was, let's say uh 30, 30 something years ago.
So, like, you know, I think I forget which anniversary, but it's coming up because uh a publicist sent me something, Nora Efron's book. Oh, Heartburn, I'm I'm gonna be writing about that actually. Yeah, yeah. So like that's what is it, 30 coming up? 40.
All right, wow, geez, geez Louise. I know, yeah. So, you know, the 40th anniversary coming out, and so like uh, you know, whenever someone sends me something and I find it interesting, I poke around a little bit, and I read all of yeah, 83. I read all the reviews from 83, and I was like, wow, like people are even people who liked it, little little book, little this, little like always belittling because it was something that was, and then I saw you know an interview she did uh like a year or two before she died talking about it, you know, basic, you know, basically saying, Yeah, like they call it like a thinly disguised uh did you read that interview she gave where she's like, no. Well, so she's like saying, Yeah, it's they say thinly disguised uh because I'm a I'm a woman, basically.
Yeah, and they're like, you know, it it's a gendered thing, you know what I mean? And so um, I don't know. I just thought it was interesting, and I think there's probably more space for people to be good at that now and not have the work be belittled. Do you agree with that or no? Abs absolutely, yeah.
No, and I think I think that's one of the things that's been great about how it's evolved is like we are seeing like more voices, like we're we're hearing from more people who you would not have heard from at all, like 40, 30, even like 10 years ago, you know. So that part, that's great. That part I'm absolutely in favor of. And and I absolutely do think that food writing itself more generally has started to become taken far more seriously, you know, uh in the last 10, 15 years. And and and I do think, you know, yes, a lot of the prejudices against it were because it was considered not serious.
A lot of women wrote about food, you know, a lot of women ran food sections. Um it was a domestic art. People didn't didn't take it seriously. So you get somebody like Nora Afron, who's writing about the dissolution of her marriage, you know, talking a lot about food, and it's seen as this like I mean also just objectively funny person, could write it. It's so funny, and like, yeah, like everyone should read this book.
It's a great book, you know. And and everyone honestly should be really impressed by somebody who can be that funny while writing about something that is really, really difficult. I mean, this is like a terrible time in her life. Her husband leaves her, she's got two small children, you know. But she she makes it's she makes this great book out of it.
Her famous husband. Oh my god. Nastas and I saw him at a party once. I used to work with their son. Really?
Yeah. Oh man. Jacob. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no.
So I mean, anyway, yeah, it's really easy for the or was really easy for people to belittle that kind of writing. It still is. I mean, there's plenty of people who still belittle that kind of writing. I think you also see that a lot applied now to food blogs. You know, you get that that sort of people love to complain about how you have to scroll and scroll and scroll to like a recipe on a food blog as if it's like some sort of like great burden.
But like what they're really skipping over is like usually it's a woman who's like writing this food blog, writing, you know, about like what the recipe means to her, her family, et cetera, et cetera. And people, people just do not want to read it. They want to get straight to the food blog. So you still or sorry, the recipe. So you still see that for sure.
That's what weird one uh because there's like been a backlash to that and then a backlash to the backlash. So I don't know where that I don't know where we are right now. We I think we're just in the middle of like infinite backlash cycles. Yeah, I mean, look, if my point is that if someone's written a recipe that, you know, whatever, man, just like let them present it to you. Just scroll.
Yeah. Just scroll. It's it's like you have a thumb, most likely. So just like just scroll. It's really not not a great burden.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you and you're trying to give me information. Yeah. Jerk.
Like, how dare you try to make a living through your advertisements, which also depend on you like having a lot of content actually to give me. I have found that, and I'm sh 100% sure I'm guilty of this, but people who don't have to make something from nothing don't understand how hard it is to make something from nothing. Oh, exactly. Exactly. It's gimme, gimme, gimme.
It sort of reminds me of uh I used to talk to chefs about this one when back when I was at the Village Voice, you know, we would do these like the village voice had a big like I think it was I forget the name of it, but basically we had a bunch of chefs come to the armory, serve a bunch of food to like a giant crowd. And that was like tasting New York thing. Yeah, it was that, yeah, yeah. Thank you. And I remember talking to chefs, you know, who would be at these things and get so frustrated with like the people who show up because you get people who would just come and like take all the little plates and like you know, whatever was on the table, they thought they were entitled to like all of it.
It was just this entitlement and this sort of like mindset of like gimme, gimme, gimme. I don't care about what's gone into making it. Nastasi and I have worked plenty of those, right, Stas? Oh, yeah. Oh my god.
And the thing is, is that like what I don't like is uh it's gonna sound terrible, but when you're working one of those stations, right? Nastasi and I never did this. We put all of our energy into the product and like we never fluffed out our table, right? Everyone else, we'd look around and we're like, oh my God. We were at an event once, and Jean George, literally Jean George showed up in a sailor's outfit, looked a lot like Joe Hazen is looking today.
Like showed up in a French sailor's outfit. Wow. And I'm gonna get buy you the hat, Joe. Anyway, like uh he had the hat, the whole thing, you know, the little free and all and Nastasia and I were like, oh, we suck. We suck.
Remember that, Stas? Anyway, yeah, you went and bought like a lamb shirt. I don't know. You told me to buy that shirt. Don't do that to me, Nastasia.
Don't you do that to me. Nastasi, we go to thrift stores because Nastasi and I love thrift stores, and some person made for someone in her family like a denim shirt with a like a lamb on it made of lamb fur. Wow, like a lamb-shaped lamb made of lamb fur sewn on lamb wool sewed on to the denim shirt. Am I accurately portraying this, Nastasia? Yeah, with a rainbow above it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what made it the rainbow. And so I was like, Dave, you're gonna buy that, you're gonna wear it. I'm like, come on, man. And she's like, You're gonna buy it, you're gonna wear it.
And now all of a sudden I'm doing it. Now all of a sudden it's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you wore that, and why was why was John George in a sailor outfit? But everyone at John George's booth was decked out.
Like cosplay. Yeah, like cosplay. Yeah. My little mutton. Anyway, my point is that, yeah, my little mutton.
Oh, that's good. It's good. So uh what uh what I hate is like the people who come to it, right? And they're they're not really engaged. Like their eyes are kind of at half mast.
They're like just like consuming everything. Yeah. They don't even look at you when they take it. They don't care really. They're human vacuums.
It's just like it's not uh and by the way, when chefs are doing that, they're not getting paid for that. No. No. One of the most interesting articles I ever wrote, I think it might have been for time out. I can't remember, but it was all about sort of the economics of those things and about how much chefs actually lose.
Oh, so much. And like, what do you actually gain? Like, I think maybe a little publicity, but not really enough to justify right. And if you don't have enough money to pay the shift wage for the people who are working with you, they're getting hosed. Right.
Right? Or or you're getting hosed twice. Like everyone's getting hosed. So I know that you've paid a lot of money, people to go to this event. I understand that.
But what you gotta understand is that it's whoever you paid the money to that's running away with your money. It's not the cooks, it's not the bartenders. So please just look the person who's giving you the product in the eye and say thank you. And if they want to tell you something about the food, listen. That's all.
It's a very it's that's all you that's all you need to do. You don't need to be like, I love it. But just like look them in the eye, accept the item. If if it's on the table, say, May I take this? Some sort of, hi, you're a human.
That's it. Yeah, it's all that's required. Basic etiquette, but human 101. People don't have it. When you're working a party, when you're working a party, and people like yell a drink out uh order out of the side of their mouth at you and and don't look at you and then reach over and grab the drink from you without looking.
Oh my god, you're the guest I hate. I hate that person so much. Like, I don't know. I don't know what it is. It again, it doesn't take a lot.
It doesn't take a lot. It's just dehumanizing. That's the thing. It's like you might as well be the vending machine handing them their drink. Right.
And if I was getting paid at all, right? Or or paid a lot. I mean you're being paid a lot. You're like, I don't care. Yeah.
You know, treat me terribly. Punch me in the face. Like I used to think a good business model, I I had this thing where uh when I was uh younger, like uh at the office, I used to work in an office, which is a terrible idea. When I graduated college, I was a paralegal. Worst job in the world for me, like soul crushing, except for my Xerox finger was very strong.
I used to, I shouldn't say this. I used to go to the New York Public Library. Uh New York Public Library used to have a very good circulating cookbook collection, very good at the mid-Manhattan Library, amazing, like stuff that you know couldn't find anywhere. And I would uh check it out on the way to work, and I would wait till everyone left the office, and then I would Xerox the whole book, bind it, and then bring the book back to the NYPL. And then so like my and I used to do that also with a technical book that's Sybil.
This is how I like learned a lot of technical stuff before it was on the internet, is I was copying all of the food tech books at at the at the um science industry and business library in in NYC, shouldn't say this. Anyway, so uh my Xerox finger, uh uh very very strong. That's right. Um what are we talking about? We're talking about things we hate, people we hate.
I forget what I was talking about. That wow. I can't you were asking me about stories. Remember that? Yeah, I don't know.
And then baby boom and I don't know. I don't know. Why was I talking about copying the books and why was I talking about the that job? I don't know. Well I don't know.
I think we were sort of on the sort of track of dehumanization. Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah. That's the thing.
It's like it's like um, oh, I don't know. So, like my what I was gonna make a uh thing was I had this skill. That's what it was where you could, no matter how big and beefy you were, and we had some big beefy folk in the office, uh, you could hit me over the head with a copy paper box empty, and it would and I was fine with it. No matter what you could do with a copy paper box, like I was fine with it. So I was gonna stand outside of the of the, I don't think I ever told you this, Nastasia.
You know the information ball, the the clock at Grand Central? So I was gonna stand out there with there was a there was a guy I used to work with who's never lost an arm wrestling. He doesn't look huge, but he's never lost an arm wrestling. And you know, he comes from a long line of like uh union bosses, right? Anyway, you get a kind of mental image of the guy, New York guy.
And so he was gonna stand next to me in case someone tried to actually punch me in the face. And then I was gonna insult comic, like just insult people as they came up to me, and then for like five dollars a pop, they could hit me over the head with a box. Good business, right? Yeah. We couldn't get enough boxes.
Oh. To make it work. You know what I mean? Because we were like, well, if we had like a hundred boxes, that's still only like 500 bucks, and then you can't use the box twice, and where are we gonna get all these box tops? But it would have been a good business, right?
Yeah. So, you know, if you're making, you know, $500 an hour when you're 24, yeah, dehumanize me. Yeah. Why not? It's kind of goes in the territory, right?
Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, who who, you know, embrace the degradation. Right.
Make a lot of money. If you're gonna be degraded, make a lot of money, right? There you go. Yeah, there you go. Brought it back, Joe.
All right. Uh hey, since uh I don't know where we are in the show, John. You want to tell them about uh Patreon, why they should join, what they get, what they don't, what they blah blah blah. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You get early access to listening to the episodes and uh column link.
You get your questions prioritized uh when you send them in. You get discounts to all the awesome people we work with, like Kitchen Rice and Letters and whoever else we're partnering with at the time. Um yeah, and you get to help support us, which is always a nice thing too. So nice for us anyway. Yeah, exactly.
And we got great guests coming up. Quinn, who do we have on coming up next week? Uh next week is uh Caroline Schiff, executive patriot chef for Gage and Kulner. And then the week after that should be Chris Young to finally tackle the uh infamous creamy. Well, I mean, I'm sure he's gonna want to talk about his new product that he's selling, and then we will also talk about it.
I'm sure Chris is gonna be like spending the entire time. I just came out with a new product, I spent years developing it. Let's talk about the creamy. We we will be making fun of the name creamy, though. It is a terrible, terrible name for a product, I think.
Truth, yes, creamy. Hey, speaking of creamy, uh by the way, Patreon people, if there's something you want, let us know. John, am I right about this? Yeah, absolutely. We'd like to find better ways to engage with uh, you know, the higher paying tier members, so let us know what kind of stuff you guys want from us, and we will do our best to accommodate.
Yeah, like what I what we don't have the time to do is to figure out what you want. But if there's something that you want and we have time to provide it, then why wouldn't we? Right? Sure. Yeah.
Uh I mean, I don't know how many people downloaded the 3D files that I put up there, probably none. Or like the pie books, probably none. You know what I mean? But I don't know. I don't know.
I downloaded them. Quinn, that doesn't count, man. You don't have to join. You work with us. You're you all I downloaded them before I started working.
All right, all right, fair. All right. Well, I appreciate that, Quinn. Appreciate that. Uh yeah.
Okay. So uh wait, something we were just talking about reminded me of one, oh, Patreon uh listener wants to know. I forget who it was because I can't I'm having trouble going through all this. Ah, yes. Wanted to ask you about editing the uh the uh Pakistani mango article and like what was going on with that.
And have you now since you've done that, ordered the miss a season already? Is it already over? Oh, yeah, for now it is, yeah. Yeah. So that was a fun story.
Um, so the writer, Ahmed Ali Akbar, he had actually already reported the story in another form for I believe it was I want to say it was either Cook's Illustrated podcast or Milk Street. Forgive me, I cannot remember that detail. Anyway, it had already come out sort of like in radio format. But he wanted to do more reporting on it, make it into a print piece, and so he brought it to us. This was right before the pandemic started.
Uh and so we were really enthusiastic about it. Uh again, we knew he'd he'd have to do some additional reporting for various reasons. Uh, but you know, he was he was game, so we got started, then the pandemic happened, and we kind of had to put the kibosh on almost every long form feature we'd been working on. At the time I was editing Eater's long form stories. That was my brand new job right before the pandemic.
And so yeah we kind of just had to sleep on it for we weren't sure how long we were gonna have to sleep on it for we didn't want to. Well why did the long form stuff get kibosh because of the pandemic people have more time to read not enough time to produce. Yeah you would think so uh no well a couple different things happened one was like every editor who wasn't already sort of working on more breaking news was assigned to work on more breaking news and to pitch in there because obviously there was so much food news to keep reporting every single day of the pandemic. So it's all the same news we're ruined yeah basically it was it was like just an unending stream of depressing stories. It was really terrible but they needed everyone to pitch in so that happened but then also they were like well you know we've never done recipes we don't really do home content but everyone's now stuck at home they're not really going to restaurants so we should start doing home content which birthed eater at home.
So they then asked me you know would you this was now I'm this is like early 2021 they were like would you like pitch in more like we know you have like culinary background I had been to culinary school like I'd done cooking blah blah blah blah they're like with your background we think you should head this up. So I was like fine so that's how we started doing cooking content. So basically they killed they killed the entire long form program uh and they were like this is your new job now. So I was like, what about Pakistani mangoes? And so that's what we want to read about.
Yeah, no, that's what's what I wanted to to edit, you know. And so uh fortunately we were able to keep the story alive. It took like two, pretty much two entire years. Um, but uh yeah, Ahmed was great, you know, really like was a trooper. We finally got it done.
Um and he published a story, and we were all like super excited about it, and we still are, and then it won a James Beard award last year, which was awesome. I did get to try some Pakistani mangoes. And they were delicious. I mean, like did you order them from the WhatsApp from that guy? What's his name?
Monot? I forget his name. There are there's a couple of different guys actually you can order from. And now I'm not even sure, like, because I think there's been some shifts in the WhatsApp industry. I don't I am not the person to speak about this, though.
Ahmed definitely is. Uh, he could tell you a lot more because he's yeah. When you had it, did you have it with him? Yeah, so I got them through him. He he was very generous in giving me some.
And did he say this is peak, this is what it's supposed to be? Because that's the thing I never know. If you get something, like I ordered some Turkish cheese off Etsy the other day. Oh. And I don't think you can.
Right. Wow. But I ordered some Turkish cheese off Etsy because you can't buy Turkish. You mean I'm sure you can, but like I I live in New York. You'd think I could get, and there's a couple of Turkish cheeses that I really like.
And like, yeah, so I ordered some off of Etsy. And they arrived in good condition. Like, they have very good string cheese. I know this doesn't sound like a lot, but the string cheese game. Have I said this on the air before, John?
I think so, yeah. String cheese game, very, very good. Yes. And and the the they make a cheese called Tulum that's like aged in um animal skin. Very good.
Anyway, so uh yeah. I mean was it peak? Did he see it? It was it was ordered during peak season. So the season is relatively short.
But did he say that the one I gave you? To be honest, to be entirely honest, I don't think he'd have a problem with me saying this because he was very open about it. He was not thrilled with them. With this batch. Yeah, with that particular batch.
As somebody who had never tried a Pakistani mango before, though, I was not as critical as he was. But that's why I think it's always important, and this people don't talk about this enough. It's always important to taste something like this. Like if you're gonna do any sort of holy grail situation, you need to taste it with someone who is experienced because then he can be like, these are good, but they're not the best. Yeah, that's what it was.
He was like, these the texture could be a little better, but like the flavor was fantastic. Yeah. It was ambrosial. That's what happens with my tomatoes. Like the tomatoes, not my personal, the tomatoes that I am catheted to.
They're not the same every year. Not every year is the best. You know what I mean? So when I give them to people, I'm like, these are fine. Mm-hmm.
The seat tomato. They'll get in a nicely grown tomato. It's still better than probably 99-9 of what you've ever had, but it's not like it's not the one that was handed down from the mount. You know what I mean? Like right, right.
I mean, that's the thing though. When you when you care enough about that and you have a hand in like somehow procuring these things, like it's never gonna be perfect, probably. Not like it is to the outsider. But it feels so good when it is. When you can serve somebody something and you're and you know that it's like that, and then you're like, because then if they don't like it, you're like, well, you're just a terrible person.
You're just worthless. I should not have wasted that tomato on you. No, you at all. You did not deserve it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That's when you go with your kids from being like, you should try this to crap, get get out. You know what I mean? If you're not interested, I just own you.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a heartbreak.
It's a heartbreak when kids don't like uh well, whatever. Uh all right. Um, did we finish talking about that? Uh I think I did, but if you have other questions, I'm happy to answer them. So uh Quinn, do we have any other questions from uh Patreon and Discord on that?
Uh no, yeah, a lot of discussion about uh about the movie, the um Yeah. Have that a lot of people, a lot of people seeing it. Uh maybe. Maybe. All right.
Uh all right. Now here's the thing. Uh so one of the things you do, I guess as a bridge because you know you're now taking things that are like restaurant style at home, is you choose, and I don't know if we talked about this before the show or during the show. My mind is a blur when I'm doing these things. But uh talking to uh either like food personalities or chefs who have restaurants who have done adaptations of their stuff for home.
Yeah, and that's kind of one of the big things. But what's weird is that sometimes you're writing it with them, sometimes you're writing it kind of as them. Like so you but it's kind of a fun, fun thing. So how do you kind of choose like one and some of them? Let me let me uh let me uh make a little uh beef, uh a little beef with you here.
Yeah. So uh you did a uh a thing with this recipe I don't know. Pheasan John sounds interesting, right? Uh and so this is a uh a dish for the longest night of the year, right? Right.
It's nice to think of it as the longest night instead of the shortest day. Right, right? So like glass half full. Yeah, yeah, glass half full kind of situation. So it's kind of um, it's uh what is it?
It's it's pomegranates, walnuts, and all this stuff. Yeah. But then, and so I'm assuming this is like, and I know they're tested because it says at the bottom of everything that you have a recipe tester, I forget her name. It's Ivy, Ivy was the one. Ivy Manning.
Yeah. She's good at that. She's great. Yeah. We're very lucky to have Ivy.
All right, so this instruction: a good trick. So you're cooking down um, I guess, pomegranate juice and pomegranate molasses in a thing. And then it says a good trick to avoid scorching the bottom of the pot is to leave a flat bottom wooden spoon resting in the pot so that the heat is conducted away from the bottom. But wood spoons don't conduct. What is that?
What is that? I mean, that was a case. That was the author of the recipe. That's her method. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I have not personally tried it. Ivy, Ivy said nothing about this to me actually in the in the testing process. Not to throw Ivy under the bus. I'm not throwing it under the bus, but it was not something that came up as like, you know, this is something that doesn't work or this is something that works really well. So we kept it in.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's fun. It's like so like, so like uh, I don't know, like when I read when I read recipes, I'm not reading them like I would guess 90% of people read it. I'm just looking for weird things to pop out at me. Yeah, yeah, me too. No, I'm the same way.
Yeah, yeah. So here's another funny one from that same same recipe. And I know that like this is you know, not your recipe, it was funny. Uh this uh it calls for like pomegranate uh, I guess it calls for red pecmes, right? The pomegranate molasses, it calls for pomegranate juice.
And then, John, you ready for this one? Half cup pomegranate arrows. Not use the technical term for what those pomegranate seed things are, not like pomegranate seeds. You're like a hundred percent of people reading that are like pomegranate arrows? What?
But the same people are probably reading this online where they can then open a tab next to it. This is a thing about like I think this is also something that's changed, at least you know, for eater, is like I think like we like to assume a certain level of knowledge, right? Among our readers, but the other thing is, is like I think there's a lot less handholding in certain ways than they're used to be with recipes because I think it's like it's either assumed that people have more knowledge now or that they have the ability to immediately gain that knowledge by doing a very quick Google search. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh let's do uh do another couple of these uh of these uh this this style uh of peace.
Uh have you hey uh um Jack or Nastasia uh because I think it's LA have you been to PJ Palace, uh either of you guys? I'm pronouncing the name of that restaurant right now. How do you like it? Describe it. The food was interesting.
The room, I hated the room, which I guess is not what you're asking, but it was like really fluorescent with a lot of TVs and I didn't like being there, but the food was interesting. Yeah. So you want to describe what the what the kind of the what the food is, what it's what the style is. I guess it's uh you know, it's mostly pizzas, pastas, and sort of bar food with Indian flavors. Um I guess that's that's about as simply as I can explain it.
Right. So then this the mashup that you have on the on on Eater that you did um with the chef is uh uh like a chicken cali merch. Oh no, it's pana, it's paneer. No idea uh Kali merch paneer pasta. It sounds great.
Yeah, it was it good. Did you try it? I actually didn't try it. That's the thing. I rarely get to try anything.
Uh, but my tester loved it. Ivy loved it. I think this was great. Yeah. All right.
Yeah. And then uh there's a couple more that you've done. Uh cooking cookies for one. Okay, okay. And Kimber's.
This recipe is twisted. There's it's flourless, fine. Okay, get this people. It's uh I like that it's in grams. I appreciate this.
I didn't know 175 grams of light brown sugar, right? Vanilla extract, 225 grams of smooth peanut butter. All right, John, you ready for this? 100 grams of chocolate for dipping. It's not in the recipe.
All of that is it's cooked. It's not a no-bake. All of it is bound by what, John? What are you binding this cookie with? Chia seats?
One single egg. One single egg. Single egg. And they they hold together? Yeah.
There's only six of them though. That's the thing. It's like you got one egg for six cookies. All right. Yeah.
It's not the feet. It seems like it could be. All right. All right, Ed with two Ds. Uh you're also a huge fan of ruining cakes and then putting it over ice cream.
I am. Yeah. I am, yeah. I mean, because it's like you have there's very few things that are gonna ruin a cake to the point of inedibility. Like, unless you like put in salt for the sugar.
Which you said you did. What was that like? I did that actually in in cooking school. Oh, jeez, Louise. Yeah, that was a that was a great day.
It was I I couldn't tell you what it was like because I didn't actually taste it. I realized what happened. Like before it went to the oven. I was like, well, I guess that's not gonna get eaten. That's going to the trash.
Uh yeah, so there's very few ways you can really ruin a cake to the extent you don't want to eat it. I mean, even if you throw that cake in the trash, certain people will still pick cake out of the trash. That is the power of cake. Uh I'm not saying I do that. Right.
And so two other things I've learned from reading a bunch of your articles. One, you have limited freezer space. I do, that's true. And two, you like vegan A's, and so we have 15 seconds for you to talk about why we should give vegan A's a shot. Uh, texturally, flavor-wise, it is great.
It is not as uncuous as mayonnaise. It's a little lighter. It's just uh Can you cook with it like mayonnaise? Uh I haven't tried, you mean like actually cooking cooking? No.
Like growchy sandwich toppings. Yeah, yeah, you can do that sort of thing. I make a lot of dressings with it though, and just put it on bread and it's great. Yeah. Alrighty, Rebecca.
Thanks for coming on. Come on and get a new time. Cooking issues.
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