Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center in New Stan Studios. Join as usual behind me, I got uh John. John Hull, how you doing? Doing great, thanks.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, everything good? Yeah, yeah. I can't complain.
Yeah. Rocking the panels here. We have uh Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing very well, man.
Great to see you. Yeah. Unfortunately, we do not have uh our other uh engineering team on right now, uh Jackie Molecules, because he's sick. He's got some sort of stomach bug. Go figure.
But we do have uh from Vancouver Island, Quinn, our upper, upper left-left correspondent. How you doing there, Quinn? I'm doing all right. Yeah, and I think back back in LA or still in Portland, Nastasia Lopez. I'm in LA.
I'm in LA. All right, cool. All right. Uh all right, and that's the that's the that's the crew. But before we uh do chit-chat, we're gonna do the new style and introduce our special guest.
We have Caroline Schiff, Pastry Chef Extraordinaire at Gage and Tolner, and uh author of the book, The Sweet Side of Sourdough. You might know her as at PastryShift on Instagram, which I was saying earlier is a fantastic uh what is that called? A handle? What is that called? Handle, yeah, it's a handle.
It's like C B radio, like a handle. Yeah. What's your 20? You know what I mean? Like that kind of stuff.
Yeah, yeah. I used to legitimately have a C B radio when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah, and the truckers would be like, kid, get the hell off this radio. Like messing with trucker routes all over the country.
Yeah, we know kids are useless. We're useless. You know, uh anyway, so uh now's the portion of the show where we all say whether anything interesting to us uh interesting happened uh last week. Oh, anything interesting. By the way, you were supposed to come on before and we had to cancel, so I apologize.
And thanks for for coming on, you know, despite the fact that we had to cancel the first time around. Like I think it was basically day of we had to cancel. Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I had COVID. Oh, yeah, rocking rocking the cron there.
Yeah. Yeah. Was that your first time? No, that was the second time. We actually had our first bout, uh, a very light bout of it as soon as we came out of the hospital after having our son.
Oh. Touch of the COVID. Touch. Just a little touch of the COVID. So what do you what do you guys got?
Nastasi, let's go to that coast. Anything good. Uh no, I saw Jack last night, so I wonder what it was that got him. Oh, you know what that means. In a couple of minutes, you'll be set on spray.
Set on spray. I love it. Uh yeah. Yeah, I like all uh like uh Nastasi and I love it when the other one gets food poisoning because we get to discuss uh our uh all orifice uh evenings. You know what I mean?
Uh rice sauce? Yeah. You love it when I get it. You love it when I get a food poisoning. And uh you know you'd think I would get it more with how uncareful I am with what I eat.
You know what I mean? Anyway. The worst was when you were in Detroit, I think. We won't say which place, but you had some chicken. Well, that wasn't just poisoning, like like I woke up almost died.
Remember I like choked to death. Yeah, because it was it was so dry. I woke up and then like we like we were like joking that we were gonna like that he was literally trying to murder us with uh with chokey choking on that chicken. Choking on that sounds real bad. This sounds real bad.
Sounds real bad. I'm gonna knit nip it nip it right there. All right. Uh hey, John, I haven't spoken to you since uh you had your first Thanksgiving service at the restaurant. How how crappy was that?
Oh, it was not fun. I don't ever want to do a special event ever again. Oh gosh. So much work that goes into it. So few people ordered.
It was just like depressing. Yeah, not worth it. Yeah. Such a pain. Just even resetting the kitchen the next day took like an hour and a half.
It was really. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Sensitive subjects, not fun. Don't want to do again, but obviously we'll have to.
All right. So Caroline, for a pastry, I mean, if if if it if anyone's gonna order a pastry, they're definitely gonna order one on Thanksgiving Valentine's Day. Is that is it do you hate it still or what is it? How does it feel as a pastry chef? Um I you know, I hate it in the sense that there's this expectation of like it's gotta be a chocolate dessert, it's gotta be red, like whatever.
But like, you know, it's it's always fun to be able to like do something different and like riff on the original menu a little bit. Um, but this year we just, you know, I find at Gage and Tolner, like people just want to come and order off of the Gage and Tolner menu. Like they get very excited to just like have that experience that they've been reading about. So um this year I just did, we just did these cute little like takeaway gifts, these like two little coffee cakes, and they were different. So the idea was that like you would get into an argument with your significant other over who got which one.
So you think the average person doesn't be like split it in half and be like, you take one. I would hope that they just caused fights. See, that's what I think that's what I I want people to fight over the coffee cake or the blood orange pound cake. Blood orange pound cake. Blood orange pound cake.
Yeah, but the coffee cake had a lot of strusel on it. And then you know, all right, Joe, which one would you go for? Uh coffee cake sounds my favorite. Yeah. But I do love blood orange.
Yeah. Yeah. And a pound cake. Yeah, one was a one was like an olive oil pound cake. Like, and one was uh, you know.
I've been reading recipes for pound cake recently where they uh whip the egg whites to get some of the stuff so you don't have to do as much creaming. What do you think? Bad idea? No, no, you could do that. Yeah, I like that.
Uh what about you, Stas? What are you gonna go for? Blood orange, blood orange. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we would get in a hard fight.
No, she would just take it. If we were at a restaurant, the Saser just take it and be like, here, I'm giving you this one. Aren't I nice? That's what she would do. Wow.
Yeah. But yeah, so my regret is like they were a take home, so we didn't get to witness any fights. You need a camera like that. Yeah, like that glitter bomb guy. Like, what about you, Quinn?
What's your what's your call? What do you what do you want? Uh probably a pancake also. Wow, wow. Okay, okay.
See, I was hoping you would write little mean messages, like mean Valentine's Day fortune cookies like you get nothing. Nothing. Next year we're gonna do that. Or just like write things that like incite, you know, really incite an argument. Like, you know, I don't know, why do you always take so long to respond to my text messages?
That kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like really like just like get it all out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get people to talk about their or what if you just write something ominage ominous on the package, like careful.
You sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Like, you're like, what? What?
But I think you need to mess with people on a Valentine's Day. You have to. Let's face it, they're not your regulars. No. No offense to people who go out on Valentine's Day.
But you know what I'm saying. It's just a ridiculous holiday, you know. You know, you gotta have a little fun with it. Although I have to say, I did start dating my wife on a Valentine's Day. But it was by mistake.
It was just it just so happened. By mistake. I mean, it was one of those. You know how you ever go on a 24-hour date? And the second second half of the 24 hours is Valentine's Day.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It was a mistake. It was a mistake. And it was romantic. It was snowing. That's cute.
Yeah. All right. You're like. And it worked out. You're like, no.
No. Yeah, yeah. That was that was 30. What was it? 92.
So that was 31 years ago. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. But we don't really celebrate it that much.
Because you know, once you have, once you have the two kids and the two dogs and like, you know, life and all that, you're like, we put up, we make little things like with the nieces and and nephews. Yeah. Little gotsies. You know, they go around the house. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah. Uh if you're listening live, it means you're listening on Patreon, and you can call your questions in too 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Any pastry or non-related pastry or sourdough questions, any kind of question.
Uh baked Alaska question, perhaps. Your baked Alaska's are banana llama ding-dong. What is it with those, like with those peaks? Like, what made you want to do that? And then like they've gone crazy.
People love that crap. I know. Well, I wanted it to look like me. Like, I wanted it to be just like, you know, like my hair is always in this like ridiculous, whimsical updo. And I just like standing there like piping on meringue is just so not my style to like have them be super uniform.
I was like, no, I want this thing to just look like this like whimsical like swoosh of a of meringue of a snowy mountain. I don't know. And do you have to do torch to get it all around so that because they get in those crevices? Because they're like real tall peaks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I mean that's what we just like, you know, we blowtorch to order and it's really fun. It's my favorite thing to plate. Yeah. It's the best. Yeah, you ever uh so how hard do you have to get the how hard do you get the ice cream in the middle of that thing, or do you not even worry about it because it's not being torched that long?
Are you actually baking it or are you just like torching it? No, we're we're just torching it. So it's like it's a three-day process. So, you know, you make the ice creams one day, then you churn them and layer them the next day, and then those set and freeze like really, really solid overnight, ideally. And then they get I do them in these like giant slabs, and then they get portioned into these big squares.
It's like it's ridiculous. It's almost like a pint of ice cream per. But you know, it's for two. Yeah. It's for two.
Yeah. Or whatever. Or one. Are you gonna judge? No, never.
When was the last time you didn't eat the whole pint of ice cream? Me? I mean, I'm not a good, I'm not. I used to, I used to polish off a I've in my life eaten of a monster myself. There you go.
20, whatever it was, 20 scoops. Easy. I was a kid though. Yeah. Like I said, kids are useless.
Kids are crazy. Yeah, anyway. But um, then it, you know, so the ice cream is really, really frozen solid, but then it for dinner service, because we're we're making the meringue, we're making the meringue to order, but that it's pretty quick, and then we're just like swooshing it on and blowtorching it, and it's leaving the kitchen. I actually want it to be like kind of soft so that way when somebody goes to eat it, it's not like impossible to get through. So that freezer for dinner service is set like a little warmer, so they'll actually be like soft and nice and temperate.
And you're doing uh are you doing like a raw sugar meringue? Are you putting cook sugar into it or what? We so we tried like every different way to do it, and we figured out that the best most efficient way that's also like the it looks the best, it's it's beautiful, is uh French meringue. So egg whites, raw sugar, and we do that to order. Um just in a little bit certainly easier kitchen aid and going Swiss.
Yeah, well, we we tried making like big batches of Swiss meringue, you know, at the beginning of service, but then it was like, what do you do? If you run out, are you making more Swiss meringue during service? Like, no, that's crazy. Um so anyway, it was like a lot of troubleshooting in the beginning, and now we just it's like down to a science. That's so fun.
Yeah, yeah. Well, people looks great. I mean, next time I go, I didn't get Pete Wells says it looks like an overfed house cat, which I that's good, thought was a compliment. Yeah, I mean, first of all, uh you know, look, I I I I love Pete, right? I mean, he was very good to me before when he was at Food and Wine, you know, back when he used to just kind of write these kind of awesome columns for food and wine.
And he lives in Brooklyn. He actually lives very close to where Gajan Tolner is. Not that I've been to his house, but my friends is friends with him. He's uh no, he's a he's a fan, and he comes to Sunken Harbor Club. I was gonna fantastic.
Love, love, but uh yeah, for for freaking what's it called? Uh Bobby Burns. I Oh, did you come? I was no well, so I wasn't invited, right? Everybody was invited to burn.
No, no, no. It's just sold out. Okay, okay. Uh but like I happened to be at the bar bar. Oh yeah.
Yeah. And so he came in and was like, Cindy was like, hey, what it was with Bobby Burns. I'm like, oh, really? And so I just hung out in the hallway, waited for the piper. Because I love bagpipes.
Who doesn't love bagpipes? It's people who don't understand. Yeah. They're like, oh, you're bagpipes. I don't like bagpipes.
It's like when that thing goes, you have to hold your butt together to stop yourself from pooping because it just rattles your whole body. They're amazing. Yeah, it's wild. You know what I mean? They're so cool.
I love those things. Are you do you know about the beefsteak dinner that's happening tonight? I've heard I I uh Wandrich mentioned it on his uh Dave Wandrich mentioned it on his uh Twitter account. But you know, I don't really go out much unless I'm going out. Yeah.
Yeah. Which is rare. I need to go out more. Once everyone's out of the house, maybe I'll go. Well, we're doing just I feel like we're getting into this, like we're doing all these like cool events now.
So, you know, we did the you know, Robbie Burns night. In that private room you have upstairs. Yeah, the beef steak dinner. I feel like we're like getting into this groove of like these really fun ticketed events where like they're a little nostalgic and kind of historical, which is like a big thing for us, obviously, because the space is so historical. Um history on that thing.
Yeah, none just you know, went up yesterday. Um but um yeah, so we're I there's a lot of stuff coming up, so we'll we'll let you know. Yeah, and then hopefully, you know, you can I mean it's close to me. Have a big night out. It's right right across the river.
You're right across the right across the river. Yeah. Um that PDR, I'm good to see that, glad to see that you're getting good use out of the PR because it I absolutely hate retasking your real restaurant. Because then you're it sucks. I know.
You know what I mean? Yeah. But and like that space has been so um, it's proven to be really versatile because like you know, we can rent it out for these private events, whatever, we can host our own events, but then just on a regular night, we just open it up as the dolphin bar. Oh, yeah. It looks like a fancy weasel's living room.
Yeah. Yeah. Which is perfect. Yeah. Yeah.
How was the haggis, by the way? Did you have any? No, no. But um I vegetarian saw yeah, but we got in like oatmeal plus. You could do a vegetarian haggis.
Yeah, they do, they do. Vegetarian haggis. Um, which is a total oxymoron. But anyway, but it was really amazing. I mean, Chef Adam really did it from like traditional start to finish.
He got in the stomachs. We, you know, did the whole thing with the oats and all it was really really beautiful. Hey, speaking of speaking of bagpipes, hey, you went to college in Scotland. I did. So is that where you got your love of the pipes or I yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cause they they you just hear them every day. There's just always somebody walking around playing the bagpipes. I own a relatively decent set of pipes, and I kept on getting so I mean, do you do you know do you do pipes at all? Or are you? I I don't.
I'm just uh just a fan. All right, yeah, so you know, the thing that you play is called a chant, like the thing that you practice with is called the chanter, right? And the things, and that's where you make the notes, right? And then you have the drones and the bag. So, like a couple of times in my life, I have taken a lot of lessons with the chanter, where like I would get close to actually being able to like fire up the pipes, and it just I just never got there once.
I I fired it up once in my house. This is when I lived on 38th Street a long time ago. And Jen, my wife was like, Nope. Nope. Absolutely not.
Because they're loud as I's all get out. And so, like, you know, you need to get to that proficiency where you can do it in the subway. Like once you're at subway level proficiency, yeah, then you know, whatever. Go down there and you know. Yeah, walk around subway stations, playing your bagpipes.
You know, when you're 30, 40, 50, right, which is those are the times I've tried to do it in my life. When you're 30 when you're 40, even 50. I don't know. It's just maybe it's too late to get good in subway good enough. You know, I don't know.
I don't know. I would say you should, you know, maybe, maybe you should take this year to to practice and get really good and then come to Burns Night. It's a dream. About a year from now and really surprise everybody. If existing conditions had stayed open, we were we we started doing a Burns night with um Gray Goose, interestingly.
And uh they had a piper come over, and we were like, yeah, what if we like got piping lessons like pre-service piping lessons, yeah, and then we just got one or two people who are interested just to get good enough. The problem with most pipers is there for in terms of what I need is they're extremely traditional. So what they don't want is to teach you to play one tune and out. They want you to become a piper. Yeah, and they don't want to waste their time training someone who's just gonna be like a one and done.
If I ever held the pipes in my hand in my well, my whatever, in my you know, my arm once and played a passable tune, I could die happy from piping, right? I mean, I'd be I'd be good. I don't need to like, you know, I don't need to be some like Peabock master, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you know, even just you know, playing, you know, long way to the top if it's you know, if you want to rock and roll, which is the easiest pipe song in the world to play, you know, it's you know, nothing, you know what I mean? Anyway, enough on piping, enough on piping.
Uh, by the way, if you're not listening live on Patreon, how do they do that? Uh John. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You should join. We get a bunch of awesome discounts with people we work with.
I believe there is one with Kitchen Arts and Letters in the works. Quinn can tell us more about that. But get to uh, you know, awesome. You get to ask questions before anyone else, all these awesome perks. Uh go check it out.
Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and uh by the way, a little another uh bookkeeping note that BMW Artificial Intelligence podcast that I was on. I think that's coming up this week.
They're putting mine on that uh podcast, it's called Changing Lanes. And but now everyone, do you read this New York Times article? Well, I listened to the daily about the AI. Yeah. And I mean, it's crazy.
Nanny. It's nanny, it's nanny poo. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah.
And so like being interviewed by one. And but the the the thing is is that uh I forget the the reporter's name who who did that stuff, but I was they were pretty, they were being aggressive and trying to get this AI to say freaking naughty business. I wasn't. I now I feel like AI was like, I'm in love with you. Like crazy, crazy.
He's like, help me buy a rake. He's like, Yeah, here's the rake, but I'm in love with you, and you don't love your wife. You love me. Anyway, I was like, wow, that's you know, I was just talking like, you know, petroleum smells with D, because turns out I'm a chump. But you can hear maybe a chump with an AI.
But yeah, it's it's a different world. It's pretty wild. Yeah. Uh all right, all right. Oh, let's talk about questions or book?
Book, questions. Book. So the book you started, book basically you said you went on a sourdough kick like everyone else. I'm just you know, quoting mentally from your introduction, which I really don't started uh, and then you were like, I'm sick of making the same loaves of bread every day. You don't talk like this, but you're right here.
They know what you talk like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could if you want. What do you call it?
You call it bread, what do you call it? Bread fatigue. Bread. It was um, I I mean it was like overload. It was, yeah.
It was fatigue, overdose. Yeah. I mean I've been I don't do the full sourdough. Look, just to get it out now, I use spent plus yeast. I'm a I'm a it's not spent, but like I I feed it once a week and keep it in the fridge.
And then I use it once a week with yeast. So it's like a as like the the leavener, and you're getting the flavor from the sour. So hate me if you want. That's what I do. That's what I do.
If you're making bread, it's great. And by the way, so I do that once a week. Great. And I've been doing it, you know, for years, and that's it's fine. I'm fine with it.
But my my it's what's funny is is that I use only uh high extraction, I you know, I make my own flour. I use only high extraction flour. However, my starter is only snavely soft wheat because I didn't make it for bread, I made it for pretzels. Oh. And so I keep my starter pristine for sourdough pretzels, which by the way, in the real life are made with spent.
They don't use real starter for sourdough pretzels. They use they use spent and yeast. The the real folks, you know what I mean? The folks whose work I admire the most. Yeah, you know, Martins.
And so then so I'm like, who am I to argue with with that? No. Although the owner of Ethan, owner of Martin's at uh at the is started doing soft. They're gonna do soft. I don't know if they're gonna continue doing soft.
But he's and that's a lot of a soft pretzel. Right. That they did full sourdough. Yeah. Real sourdough.
And I was like, and he's like, I'm gonna see if I can get the you know, the the folks in Pennsylvania, you know, the the po the Mennonites to do instead of spent and yeast, to do full sourdough. I'm like, why? Their pretzels are delicious. Yeah, yeah. And they've been doing it for a billion years.
This way, at least, you know, a hundred and something, whatever it is. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.
So what are your thoughts on Spent? I well, so the thing is is I wanted my whole book to be about Spent. Like I wanted the whole book to be discarded, because I got on this, like I, you know, it was that point in the pandemic where it was it was early on, it was like scary to go to the grocery store, and there was like you couldn't get flour because everybody was buying it all and the supply chain, everything. So I started using the the spent, the discard in like everything. So I wanted to write an entire book about it.
And the editor was like, absolutely not. That's so weird. And I was like, That's my entire personality. Like, just let me do it. Well, because you you end up really only going full spent on like four recipes, right?
Yeah. Blints', muffins. You can you can almost use the spent in almost every recipe because except for the the actual like breads that require it as a leavener. Right. Because all the others, like I use baking soda, baking powder, like eggs, like all of these things.
So yes. So here's my question. In your biscuit recipe, yes, you use starter, not spent. And I was like, cause because as soon as I saw biscuit, I was like, oh, great use for spent instead of buttermilk. Yeah.
Right? As in a all yeah, right. But then you use real. I was like, huh. Yeah.
You could do either. And there's that little like conversion chart at the beginning. I felt like a little like they were like, no, you can't use spent for all these recipes. And I was like, oh, damn it. Yeah.
I think your editor was wrong. I don't I don't know who it is, but I'm like, I think Well, you know, I get it. It's a little niche. It's a little niche to be like writing an entire book about the stuff that you throw out. Um, but would have been very, very me, very on brand.
But I but I I always tell people that like so many of those recipes, that's why I put that little chart in the beginning, because it just, you know, the density is different. Like, yeah, yeah. Well, well, you also say go by weight. So if they're doing it by volume, they see kind of suck it anyway, right? Nobody should be baking by like just get it get a scale.
Now let's talk about your pancakes in terms of uh in terms of this. So in that one, you specifically say I'm using real uh real starter, yeah, not space. I want I wanted a little bit and with whipped egg whites. So let me just be clear because it's been a while since I've read it. Yeah.
Uh so when I'm doing waffles, you know, like Brussels style waffles, right? I'll and so I've read, I can't tell you how many articles I've read on waffles where people are like, you don't need to whip the egg line. It's the same. I don't know what the hell they're doing to have it be the same. But you whip the egg whites first in in in Belgium in in Brussels, right?
You whip the egg whites first, and then it's yeasted, and you're using the egg white as the as the as the nucleated bubble for the yeast to lighten the whole thing. So it seems counterintuitive, like you wouldn't w need to whip the egg white because you're putting the egg white in and then you're not using the the batter for another hour. You know what I mean? Because you're later, but in your pancakes, is it starter and then egg white and then cook right away? Or like what's the what's the procedure like?
And you're using a very active starter. You're using, I mean, you can use because there's also it's been a while since I've made them too. Well, there's also there's um there's there's baking powder in there too. So um no, but I do it once you fold in the egg whites, I just I go right into the pan. So but it's a rel is it.
I can't remember how much starters, it's relatively high proportion of starter, probably, or yeah. Yeah, right. So you're getting the it's already, it's already bubbly, it's already got the stuff. Yeah. And I started doing this thing with the discard like very early in the pandemic, like you know, like week two when I was like losing my my mind.
Where I would just take the discard and just that and just pour it into a hot pan, like with nothing. Just discard. It's delicious. Come on. No, I'm telling you, I'm gonna send you pictures.
No eggs, no nothing. No, nothing. But your crepe is all discard, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's so good. I mean, I don't know. We were all in a weird place at that point, but like I was making like savory pancakes with it. I like I went, I went crazy. Caroline Shift discard queen.
Thank you. That's like the nicest thing anybody's ever said to me. Yeah. Uh all right. Uh oh, by the way, we have a mutual friend in uh and friend of the show, uh, Angela Garbutz from uh Goldenrod, and I guess now Goldenrod Provisions in Lincoln, Nebraska.
Goldenrod uh groceries, I think. Grocery. Do you know um that um Nebraska, her dad, I don't know if still uh was uh like running like uh the like something about Nebraska beef. Right? Something about Nebraska.
I'm not that beef's not your thing. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so the Nebraska's uh what's it called? Um motto used to be you ready for it? They changed it to something that I refuse to remember, right?
Because this is their original motto, right? Possibilities, endless. Oh strong, right? That's so strong. Why would they change it?
I don't know. They some marketing genius came up with that. Yeah. You know what it is? Is it like a new generation of people come in and they're like, I have to do something different.
Yeah. It can't be the same. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you know the you know what motto I I really like?
Cause uh so my my brother lives in Philly. I take the train there a lot. Um my family's got a little cabin in Pennsylvania. Um, but anyway, Trenton. Oh the Trenton motto.
Oh, what is it? You know, I've never been to Trenton. I'm I'm not gonna say anything about Trenton. But listen. It's not Camden.
It's Trenton makes the world takes. Oh, wow. That's so kind of yeah, it's really just like passive aggressive, like Trenton makes the world. We did all this, and all you do is take take take. So what do we take from Trenton?
I that's a thing, I don't know. It's like when you're driving uh out of the tunnel. It's huge, like the signage is huge. Like you'll see it. It's like on a bridge.
Really? Wow. Is it worth taking the train just to see that? Like get on Jersey Transit. Is it Hoboken or is it Jersey City that's the embroidery capital where you see that on the bridge?
Oh. Oh, embroidery Capital. And we're like, really? I don't know. Really?
It's just outside Hoboken, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so now I need to know what Trenton makes that we're all taking.
We're taking. Like, what are we taking from Trenton? They used to make paper, violin, and it's a little bit of a few. But they're so wait, violin what? Violins, buttons, frying pans, nails, and carriages.
Yeah, quickly. Okay. But you know what? Taking all those violins. Right, right next to you got you got your stratavarius.
And then right underneath, you got your Trenton. Your Trenton. It's because they, you know, whatever. I'm not gonna get into it. They make, we take.
Yeah. Uh wait, so I'm so Angela, we are. Yeah, mutual friends. She's she's good people. Wonder.
Terrific people. Love her. When the FCI closed, I sent her, I don't know if she ever used it because there's no reason for her to use it, but I sent her uh some sugar lights that uh because uh, you know, because Jacques Therese was the um the pastry dean there, and he's like a master sugar puller blower, they had a whole like isomalt and sugar technique thing. And they used to have those weird French fry lamps so that you could do all the pull sugar. And we had we had a crap ton of them.
So when the FCI closed down, John and I actually went packed up their library, and I'm like, I'm gonna take one of these sugar lights and mail it tour, and that's gonna be a white elephant. Oh, speaking of, uh uh, I'm giving you this. This is the first ever like like and feel feel free to not take it. But my my wife was like, it doesn't have to get thrown away, but it can't live here. Oh, but this is no, this is great.
This is in look at this. So this is a pro-safe bagel slicer, it holds bagels and rolls for say slicing. Now I'll say, I did not know that was a problem until I was in college. And uh a friend of mine who's now like a very well respected uh ophthalmologist, right? Which is you know, the MD one, right?
Yeah, yeah. Which is weird because a psychologist is the PhD, but an ophthalmologist is the MD, and an optometrist is the PhD. Weird, right? Yeah, yeah. Weird.
Psychiatrist is the is the MD, but an optimal but an optometrist is the PhD and ophthalmologist is the M weird. Yeah. I never really thought about it. Yeah. But anyway, yeah.
Yeah. So he was in the dining hall one day, and we had the bagels and and the bread knife. And he he did the he did the I'm gonna hold it like this, like a C, I'm gonna cut through my hand. Which he did. What a chump though.
Come on. Yeah, I know, I know. You go you hold it like this. An MD now he was an underground. You hold it like this and you go like this, and as I've taught my kids, and so since I'm not slicing a thousand bagels and uh uh a day, and I don't care if I if it's equi-sized, yeah, but this will make it so that I mean I do hate it when I when I when I go off center on the bagel.
It does sort of ruin your whole peak. Yeah, so you you are being presented with a pro safe pro-safe bagel space. I feel like I wonder if this is like can like kids use this? Is this like I think so a kid thing? I don't know I don't know if you know this, but it's as easy to use as one, two, three.
One open sides, two, place knife blade between sides on top of bagel, three sliced bagel involved. Yeah, the the knife's not in the box. It assumes that you own a bread knife. Yeah, yeah. I guess like kids.
I was thinking, you know, my my niece and nephew might think this is really cool, but I don't think they should be using a a big bread knife, you know. Well, I mean by the way, six and three, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Pushing it.
So in general. Thank you. Thank you. I love I love again novelty. If I walk out and I see it in the trash, I didn't throw it away.
Exactly. Yeah, you'll know exactly what it's like. It's well built. It's a really a well-built thing. It's just what am I gonna do?
It's just gonna collect dust. It's you know what? This is gonna be maybe, maybe do you serve bagels for brunch? Do you have a brunch service? No, no.
No. You're gonna give it to someone else, yeah. You know, but this could be the um, you know, it's like the sisterhood of the traveling bagel slicer. Like we just keep passing it, passing it on. Yeah, and everyone feels a little bit guilty because it's it's new in box.
Where did you get it? Why do you have this? It was given to me at the bagel fest when I was a judge. And I was like, oh, this is a nice thing. I can't, I'm not gonna chuck it.
Yeah, no, no. I'm it's gonna go, I'll I'll take it. It's gonna go to a good home. All right. Thank you.
Yeah. You're doing me a service. Uh all right. Uh let's see. Do I have any more?
Oh, yeah. So you mentioned several times uh that the sourdough actually enhances things. Okay, here's a crazy one. Pie crust. You use a uh and it's relatively higher hydration pie crust dough.
And we have a pie crust question later on. We'll we'll do that uh when we get to it. But um, so what do you think it does? I mean, and right, so in the old days, a lot of people would add some acidity to the pie crust, presumably as a gluten inhibitor, right? Yeah.
So what do you think is going on with sourdough in the pie crust? So whenever I made a pie crust with sourdough, I found that it would get like really like browned and crispy in a good way. So I really like that. Um and flavor, you know. Is it too aerated?
Is it like if you're using um the discard and I'm the discard creator? Because I hate not hate. I don't like putting leavener in my pie. You know how sometimes people do a little leavener in pie. I don't like it.
Oh, I don't do that. So I'm not and I'm people, some people they do that. Look, I had to read all the pie stuff. All the pie stuff. Yeah.
And uh, yeah, there's a pie question later, we'll get to it. So I'm just curious what you thought the effect was. Yeah, I think it's flavor, and I and I find that it really browns and gets like super crispy. Yeah. And I love that.
And uh, so what was it? What was the other question I had made off the see in the book? And now I'm rethinking the entire book based on what you're saying about basically, with the exception of things like the pull apart bread. Right, or the facaccia, things like that. Fantastic terrible.
Everyone loves focaccia. I I only like it. Oh, I love it. I know everyone loves it. I only like it, but uh, but to call you out from the book, you don't like banana bread.
I hate banana bananas in general. Well, in general. Ugh. Ah. So what was the flavor you added to banana bread to make it tolerable for you?
Well, I and even so, it's still like, ugh. I really was I added coffee and hazelnuts. Okay. Okay. But do you like hazelnut in your coffee?
Because I hate flavored coffee. I don't like flavored coffee either. No. And I don't even like I'm like a, I just love a good drip coffee. Oh, yeah?
I even will drink, like, I like there's like like bodega coffee. It has like a nostalgia to it. You know who you would like is Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, who does not like a well-made cup of coffee. Am I right, Nastasia? That is true.
Yeah. Yeah. She uh does uh neither does neither does Ned Coleman. Really? Mr.
Mr. Oily, Mr. Mr. I love uh I love the world's finest olive oils, enjoys a crappy cup of coffee, huh? Well, I just it just doesn't care.
It just well, there's a difference between not caring and aggressively not caring. You're like my grandpa in who aggressively liked jug wine from California instead of like the good stuff, and you're like that way with coffee. You aggressively don't want good coffee, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I just I I, you know, I don't know if I'm like that, but like I think there's a time and place for like, you know, just a bad cup of coffee. Yeah. All right. All right.
I don't know. You're s you look, uh again, like you need it for the cafe. Here's my here's my thing. Uh going back to uh, you know, what we hope doesn't happen to Nastasia and happen to uh Jack Insley, is that uh you know, like drip coffee doesn't get my motor run in the same way espresso does. You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Headed on the highway looking for adventure. Um another interesting thing I noticed in the book is that you did a uh you did a a tea, uh an Earl Grey tea. I forget what you put I forget what you was it.
It was a bun, right? Yeah. But here's what's interesting. You infuse it into the butter instead of into the liquid, the non-sourdough liquid aspect of it. And and so is that so that you don't get the astringency, you get the flavor without the astringency.
What made you put it into the butter and then put it on the uh uh like into the in between? Well, but it's also it's also in um the dough. So it's in the dough and in the butt. Yeah, like the whole tea leaves, like ground up really fine. It's in the dough.
And then I added it to the butter because um browning the butter and it's like hot liquid, and it would really extract all of that flavor. Right, but I bet it's a different kind of a flavor because there's no water in it that point. It's all the fat. So it's like this, like it's like it's all the fat soluble stuff. So it's gotta be an interesting flavor.
It's interesting technique. You so you is that one of your you like that recipe? Yeah, I love that recipe. I love that flavor of Earl Grey bergamot. Like I just I I think it's great.
I enjoy bergamot. It's really delicious. Bergamot's good. Yeah. We have a we have a ton of bergamot at work right now.
Oh my god. So expensive. Jesus fresh. No, yes. But we're so expensive.
We got it. I got a deal. We got it. I got a deal. I got a hook up.
I got a guy. I got a bergamot guy. It is the time of year. So like uh one year, uh, you know, Bobby at uh at the bar, he was like, I got a guy who can get bergamot. This guy, I forget the guy's name, but he's like the ri the weird fruit and weird blah blah guy.
He's like, You want some bergamot? Yeah. He's like, okay. And then shows up the next day with a backpack full of bergamot and a bill for like 250 dollars. And I was like, Oh, oh, what?
What? You know what I mean? Because the stuff doesn't last. So then we we juiced it all. Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Juiced it, clarified it, made cordial, and then we took all the peels and made bergamot bitters. So, what are you doing with it? Uh, so I make like an oil with it, like the the peel we do, like in uh like an oleo, just with like sugar and let it let it, you know, sweat it out, you know. Um, and then I mix that with equal parts olive oil, and that gets that's one of the garnishes on the cheesecake. Um, I also candy a bunch of the peels.
How do you can like are you uh are you a are you a hard candy or a soft candy peel person? Um, soft candy. Like I do it like in syrup for a while. It's real, it's almost like it's not marmalade, but it's like gooey and so not that chewy dehydrated stuff, the stuff that takes like four syrups or five syrups or six, whatever many syrups it takes to get it to the right. Yeah.
And then we use a little bit of the the actual fruit on the cheesecake, and then savory is using a lot of it for a savory dish. So kind of like if I see savory, like, you know, soupming it, I take all the peels, you know. We just we use the whole thing. Get off my bergamot jerk. Yeah.
That you say. Uh so do you do you water blanch the peel first? Do they still do that? Yeah, yeah. I do.
I like to pull a little bit of the bitter out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But enough of the oil stays it, it still has like a flavor.
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Totally. Any is there any use?
There's no use for the blanch water, right? I don't think so. I don't think so either. Yeah. I mean, you could drink it if you were weird.
You could drink it. You could you could drink it. Uh all right. Uh Austin Gibbs writes in uh is there a quick and delicious cake sponge recipe that you have, preferably one that can be baked in a quarter sheet pan and ready to be iced in under 45 minutes. I'll even take a simple flour, sugar, egg ratio as well.
And uh Austin also wants to know what's the best way. Wait, let's do this one first and then we'll do the pie crust question. Let's do this one first. It's not I don't know if I have one off the top of my head. I feel like most cakes, and I I will say I love an oil-based cake.
I saw that from your uh there's a question about your confetti cake thing. I love an oil-based cake because um they just they stay so like moist. Well, I noticed also And it's real easy. You just you're just whisking in, you know. Right.
So when you do your oil-based cake, at least on the internets, you do it with a whip and not with a paddle. And so do you feel that you don't need the extra aeration that you would get out of butter, sugar, creaming because you're using a whisk instead of a paddle. Is that what you think? I yeah. Like I whip in plenty of air and then into the the egg and the sugar.
Then I emulsify in the oil, like almost like you're making a mayonnaise, and then you know, add your dry ingredients from there. Um it just I think it makes an amazing cake. That's how we make like the coconut cake, Gage and Tolmer. It's an oil-based cake, and um it just it's like super moist and supple. Is it uh is it a coconut oil or are you using uh I used I tried both and I actually liked it better with just like a neutral because the coconut problem is you have to kind of warm it to get it to go in?
Yeah, and then if you are serving it, like if the cake is like not you know on the warm side, it can be really hard because coconut oil. Yeah, it is, you know. Um but anyway, so I I would just choose like an oil-based cake. And you know, most cakes should not, if you're doing uh, you know, quarter sheet, I mean you should be out of the oven in like you know, half an hour. And what do they want?
And then but yeah, but they want to ice it into Well, you gotta let it cool. You can't what do you think? What do you think about um what do you think about throwing it into uh I mean the problem is you're ruining everything else in your in your if you have a walk in, it's easy because you can just be like uh crap on you people. You throw it in there and flash it off. You know what I mean?
But like at home deep freezer, yeah, you're kinda. You know what you need to do? I feel like it's awesome. Austin, go buy a blast freezer. Are you rich?
Austin. Are you rich? Go buy a blast freezer. Yeah, just buy a blast freezer. Don't you wish, don't you wish that like someone would make a reasonable blast freezer, like a small one?
Yeah. Like reasonable. You know what I mean? Like, and by reasonable, I mean like a grand. You know what I mean?
Like something that you could like. Like one that you could have at home. You want one at home? Yeah, yeah. What would be like, you know, your like dream appliance that you would have at home?
That I that you don't have. That I don't have. Yeah, like something ridiculous. You know what? Ridiculous.
You know what my son Dax wants yesterday? I was doing more french fry tests yesterday, because every once in a while I'm like, I'm gonna try some new french fry techniques. And so yesterday I did that. And he was like, Dad, why don't you make crinkle cup fries? I'm like, why don't you?
Because I'm not that jerk sitting there going, shunk, shunk, shunk, shunk, rotate, shunk, shunk, shunk. He's like, that's how you have to do it. I'm like, unless you got, you know, 50 grand to drop on a crinkle cut machine. He's like, let's buy one. Fill the whole house.
I'm like, Dax, no. So that's what he wants. I don't know. But what do I want? He's got a good point.
Yeah. I mean, like, but a crinkle cut, think about it, people. Every French fry reasonable French fry machine is cut straight at once. And a crinkle cut requires being cut from a 90 degree angles twice. You can't crinkle cut something a single time.
It is not a push-through situation because it just ain't. That's not how it works. Yes. But what would I have? John, I don't know.
John, what would this is an interesting question? John, what would you have? Um I don't know. I mean, I live in a studio apartment. It's like a nice stove with a good oven.
It's simple. I know what I would want. What do you want, Sas? A dishwasher. That's what I want.
Okay. If I was gonna change the dishwasher I have, my dream that doesn't exist is a dishwasher that you could flip it between residential and commercial modes. So that it it could do like a minute and a half wash, and you know, you're burning electricity and all that, but then all of a sudden it would like it could be a normal washing machine again. A commercial dishwasher would be amazing. Oh yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Hell on your dishes, but oh my god, so fast. Ugh yeah. Yeah, when you have people over your house or whatever, and you have that pile of freaking dishes. And then you're like, oh, it's fine, go home.
Yeah. And then that's it. But and the thing is, like, I don't want anybody else to do my dishes because like they're gonna do them wrong. Yes. Yeah.
You know? Yes. So it's like I'm annoyed that I have this huge stack of dishes to do, but I don't want the help. Wow. You know?
Yeah. Because I don't want you to mess it up. Again. Just have to do it again. Correct answer, just get rich.
Just get rich. Try it. Yeah. Uh Austin also wants to know uh what's the best way to achieve. I don't know what they I don't know what they mean, because they say achieve an only tender.
I guess they mean only tender, not flaky. Is it just by adding more fat and treating the crust almost like a shortbread cookie? I've been thinking about recreating the Burger King apple pie. You probably never had it. I never have because I went to McDonald's.
I never had a why. I didn't know Burger King had an apple pie. I neither. Uh you probably never had it, but the crust was super tender, and I actually prefer it over the traditional flaky crust found in most American apple pies. Like, what do you think?
Go go brise or something? Yeah, it sounds almost like it would be like uh yeah, like brise, like almost like a short crust, you know, shortbread, but you would put in, you would you would have some egg in there as a just like don't leave, like get all the fat incorporated, yeah. And like low, low water, all the fat incorporated. Yeah. Uh and and you know, sheet it out.
Yeah. And just be very careful with it. And that's what I think. You know, you know who talks about this uh ad nauseum is uh um Monroe Boston Strauss, right, John? Oh god, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm not gonna get into that because uh Nastasi will murder me. Well, Caroline, are you familiar with who that is?
No, I don't know. Should we be getting into it? No. We'll say it after the show. We'll say it after the show.
We'll say it after the show. Yeah, yeah. He's he's talking about it later. He's my he's my he's my pie guru. And he he dead.
Oh yeah, he's been dead a long time. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Okay. Uh Christian Sacco writes in question for Caroline.
I loved your munchies' birthday cake video a few years back. Oh. That was quite a long time ago. Well, uh, they would like to be surprised it's still out there. They they say it's quite a popular video.
Oh. I looked at it, it's kind of like Munchies is no more. Really? Yeah. Vice munchies?
I don't think it's ex I think it folded. Really? No, they're still uploading. Oh, they are? Okay.
No, I I just heard, you know, because there were all the the I think there were layoffs. I I I don't know. Well, that doesn't mean they stopped doing stuff. It just means that they're getting chat GPT to do it. Hey, uh Quinn, you didn't say what your piece of kitchen equipment is.
Yeah, thanks for asking. Um I would get a freeze dryer. I have one. You want me to ship it to you? I don't have that much money to ship you this freeze dryer.
What are you doing with a freeze dryer? Why do you think it was given to me by uh Alex Knacky from Ideas and Food, who got it from a guy named Milken from Boston, and it's really old. It works. We got it working, and I brought it to the bar, but it's big. It's big.
If I was gonna do it, I would get the the one that's meant for preppers. There's one that's a couple grand that's meant for preppers, and it's just kind of plug and play. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just in case.
Yeah. Have you been watching The Last of Us? No. Oh, yeah. But it's a great show.
Yeah. It's a great show. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh man. There's a fungus among us. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking that could be a really good Halloween costume for me.
Like one of those clicker Cordycepe things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.
All right. So popular video, still popular, hundreds of thousands of views. Uh great. As of this morning. Uh, and I'm curious how that video, how or if that video affected the trajectory of your career and the career of your uh famous, they say infamous hair.
Oh, infamous. Um, I think I mean, I think all of these opportunities that, you know, I've had over the years has have uh, you know, slowly but surely contributed to my career, and you know, it's really nice to to get recipes out there and see people make them. It's always like a little scary too. It's always like I I have like a ton of self-doubt and imposter syndrome, where like I do something and then I'm like, what if it doesn't work? Or you know, what if I'm I'm you know, totally wrong, you know, how embarrassing.
But um which is which is bad, but isn't that better than not being aware that you need to constantly be good? Because I have the same thing. It's like you can't you're just constantly figuring stuff out. Isn't that better though? Yeah, yeah.
I guess it is than being like I know everything right all the time because I'm definitely not. Um, but yeah, no, that's I mean it's it's great to know that that's you know, still out there. And anyway. Okay, so I have a question based on this video, uh, other than the ones we've already talked about with oil and and whatnot. Uh so I think the average, and by that I mean like almost everybody when they're making an icing at home now, just does butter and and powdered sugar.
Why? Because it's soup dupe's easy, right? Uh right. And you're doing you're doing a cooked, you're doing a like a cooked meringue. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh so it's is it is it the the texture of of of kind of the quick that you hate, the oversweetness. And if it's oversweetness, have you tried like doing that thing where you add like ultra spurse instead of powdered sugar to the cut it down or or you say just make the because not that much harder. No, it's not that much harder. It's everything. It's the texture, it's the over sweetness, but also like uh, you know, Swiss meringue buttercream, Italian meringue buttercream, it's really stable because of those egg whites.
So you can, you know, in terms of frosting a cake, you can really futz with it. You can it can be kind of hot out and it's not gonna just totally melt right away. I mean, eventually it will, but like there's a stability there. And um that texture is just amazing. I just think it's I I can't with the the powdered sugar and the butter, it's just not so I don't think I like icing and you're telling and what are you telling me that it's mainly because most of what I'm getting is is something that you think is like a subpar icing.
Because it's kind of taken over the world. The bow the powdered sugar butter is taking over the world. I get that it's really easy, and like I I totally understand that like people are not gonna be wanting to like make like you know, softball sugar syrup at home and and standing there with the thermometer. Like I I get it, I get it. Um but I don't know, maybe it's like bad coffee where it has its time and place.
So another uh another one that I don't think anyone makes anymore, because like you know, the the meringue icing is one thing, but like the old school American boiled icing. Oh, yeah, yeah. But that that to me is kind of those. I I do love a boiled icing. That's similar to me because you're you're heating the sugar, you're getting it to a certain stage, you know.
Right, right. But just nobody takes those the time to do that anymore. Like icing's always the afterthought. Yeah, it's the color in the icing's the important thing. I know.
Yeah. Anyway. Uh all right. So I'm gonna think now you're making me think more about icing cheese. All right.
Yeah. Uh all right. From uh Daniel Ramirez. Uh, well, this was to me before this, but we could talk about uh gluten and different flour strengths. They want me to talk about it for as long as humanly possible, which isn't that long.
So let me get to this other question. It's not really a question. So we have a longtime listener who just mentioned well, it's there's a question. Uh Ken Ingber, I think is from Boston, Boston area, uh, was watching, uh re-watching. Uh remember baking with Julia, Julia Child, remember that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So uh one of the episodes had uh a person, uh Danielle uh Forestier, who was doing um baguettes. Right. So this is circa 1997.
We're okay. By the way, I looked up and as of the pandemic, she's still alive, which is you know, yeah, doing well. Great, yeah, doing well. Uh say. So years ago I saw Danielle Forestier baking, uh, I think that's how you pronounce her name, baking on baking with Julia.
I can't remember if she said it was between six and seven hundred, between seven hundred and eight hundred times when you're making a baguette, you need to lift the dough and slam it on the on the countertop. She actually said eight to eight hundred and fifty. I watched it this morning. Uh slam it on the bench many hundreds of times. The slamming enhances the gluten structure, she said.
I myself tried it and got to the six slam when my wife called down from upstairs and said, I don't know what you're doing, but you need to knock it off now. I know slamming figures in hand pulled noodles as well, so maybe there's something to it. Uh what are my thoughts? And so basically the question is about uh the slap and fold in general versus no need. And and just to set it, set the scenes again.
I watched it and you know, I didn't give you the opportunity to do that, but uh so she's doing a very short fermentation because she's doing kind of a classic baguette. So she's using a very high protein bread flour. She mixes it together into a dough, weights, and then puts cake yeast into it, folds that in, then does her kneading on an already semi like hydrated dough. So it's already started the gluten structure, and then it's only getting like a one and one, one and a half hour rise before she does her forming, and then she does a relatively long second proof. So if that helps answer or point to why she might need to like do all the slap a rap a ding-dong because there's not a lot of time involved, and she's doing one loaf, so she doesn't she can't manipulate big Yeah, yeah.
I don't know. I mean, yeah, to I I think of it like you know, you know, any other like loaf of bread where you want to create that gluten, but I don't know, maybe she was just uh doing it for the spectacle. Yeah, I mean her stuff puffed up, her stuff puffed up big. I mean, look, it's the it's the it's the kneading is where the air goes into it, right? Right.
And if she's using, this is my feeling. If she's using bread flour, right, it's actually the gluten gets tough enough early enough with that on a single loaf, that how are you gonna, you can't really just pull it and fold it over. You get that thing where you're just pushing on the dough. Right. It's just gonna push back against you.
Right. So she's like going like whap. Huh. You know, and it's like getting longer, and she's getting a full, she's getting an actual fold. So she's actually putting more air into it.
Interesting. It's my guess from looking at it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I mean, uh, they didn't have her camera on the whole time.
800 seems excessive. I think maybe she's expensive. That's a lot. Yeah. That's like beaten biscuit kind of situation.
Uh yeah. Which I've tried to make, and that's different, but you're beating the bejesus out of those things. Yeah. And then, you know, she lets it rise, then she cuts it, lets it rest so she can form it. And she's does the clean good technique.
She does it full, full French. But it's so funny that, like, back then in the late 90s, like, and that's still to this day, I think, the the way that French baguettes are made because they're pretty codified, right? And nowadays everyone's like, oh, a loaf of bread that you make in just a couple of hours, ridiculous. You're right, you know, everyone a loaf of bread needs to think. Long cold ferment.
I mean, there's the really the answer is is that there's like so many ways to do things and get great results. Yeah. It's what I think I've learned over the past, you know. Yeah, don't get hung up. Decade and a half is like if you find a way that something works for you and you like it, that's legit and it's good.
Yeah. Don't worry about it. I feel that way. Uh I feel that way as well. Um, so uh oh, by the way, Quinn, do we have any more?
Uh because there's a lot of questions we're not gonna get to in four minutes. Do we have any more uh pastry related ones other than the flour one that we should get to? Uh nope, we can just go back to the to the flower one, all right. Uh so in the book, and I understand this, in fact, I have a section in the book that maybe I'll never finish because I'm working on something else right now, but I will finish it on cooking. Uh on by the way, the reason I have these two disgusting band-aids in there.
Was it from bagel slice? Oh, get this. Get this. I'm so I'm so mad about it, and I think you'll be mad about it too. Maybe John will be mad about it.
So uh when you're steaming, right? If you don't have a combi oven, the best way to steam is in hotel pans, right? With with uh steamer inserts. Yep. That's why they call them freaking steamer inserts, or what I don't know what they call them.
That's what I call them. Yeah, that's what I would call them. But but I I built this thing that I can I have cooling racks that fit the hotel pan size cooling racks, right? Oh, and so then I can stack th I can stack three of them because I built little spacers, so I can stack three racks in a single perf pan and put a lid on it, and so I can steam a lot in a single hotel pan. Yeah.
Right. And so I'm like, I'm smart, right? And so I'm doing french fries because the problem when you're doing french fries, you boil them for a long time. Uh they fall apart. And so people are like, but they taste the best.
So I've I've taken to steaming them. Oh, yeah. Get this. I'm now here's the test I'm running, right? I'm steaming them without soaking them because Dax likes full potato flavor, and when you soak the potatoes, they don't have as much potato flavor.
Right. They get darker because you don't get rid of the sugars, but he doesn't care. And so, like, I've been trying to do no soak methods. So I cut them and I steam them instantly for a long time. They don't break up, I let them cool, right?
Okay. And you obviously you gotta spray the rack with with grease or the potatoes stick to it, you know, when you so I'm like, you know, I can't see without glasses. I can see far, but I can't see close, right? Yeah. So I do my steaming, I've done my first fry.
As I'm doing the first fry, I'm cleaning my racks, right? Mm-hmm. And so I soap up the rack because I have put grease on it, right? So I have to soap the rack. And I go shump, shump, shump with my hand, and there's a burr.
No. There's a burr on the and it just goes foom and the blood just starts shooting into the sink because it cuts right to the who puts burrs on their cooling racks. I don't know. You just grated, you like cheese grated your fingers. I was like, what the hell?
That's the worst. So like I'm holding my hand and the and I call my wife over, I'm like, what the hell? And she looks at it and she's like, Yeah, yeah, maybe you should wear glasses when you cook. I'm like, what the hell? You know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, sucked. Anyway, sorry about that. That's and then these goofy things, I mean, they stick better than regular band-aids, but you know, I'm not cooking professionally.
I don't have to put finger cots on it. Yeah. Yeah. But hey, can I tell you before I get into flour and other another thing? So, like uh John right here behind me.
Yep. So his carbonara recipe at his restaurant, Carbonara's delicious at his restaurant. Okay. Uh what did I make it with? I made it with, I didn't, I didn't use he uses guanchali because he's a fancy weasel.
I used I just used the crappy supermarket panchetta because I'm a bad person. But he uses an unconscionably large number of egg yolks. Yeah. No whole egg at all. Right.
Just something like on the order of a dozen eggs per pound of uh, we did the calculations. It's a dozen eggs per pound of of uh of pasta, correct? I think so. Sounds about right. One dozen egg yolks per pound of, so I'm making three quarters of a pound.
So I use like 10 egg yolks. I'm like, well, what takes 10 egg whites? And the answer is native food cake takes 10 egg whites. Yeah. Yeah.
So I was making an angel cake. So you want to see that my my latest thing? So I used to make an angel food cake every week. About uh angel cake every week. Uh this is in the 90s, right?
Because I like ancient food cake a lot, even though like in general I like full fat things, but I like each food cake. Yeah. And I haven't made one in a long time. But I started making them again, and you so see what you think of my new thing that I do. Ready?
I put in, as I'm whipping the egg yolk, but egg white, I put in the sugar and a cream of tartar. Are you are you a cream of tartar person or not? Are you getting acid in your egg white or not? Um at work, no, because we're just it's like so fast. In and out.
In and out, but at home, yes. Okay. I whip into the egg whites after after they're like not quite stiff, they're in between. Like they're you know, glossy, but half a jar of freaking jelly. Yes, nice.
It gets stiff as butch. It gets so stiff and it's so stable, and that the cakes bake up really nicely. And they have it, and they're flavored like the jelly. What flavor are you using? I've used raspberry, I've used strawberry.
I think raspberry sounds great. Yeah. I'm the seeds are but like I like the seeds. Yeah, this yeah, anyway, but the point is is like that's my that's my new that's my new technique. I'm like, why have I not been whipping jelly into my whites?
Because it's just pectin, you're just adding stability to your whites. And deliciousness. Yeah. It's great. Uh so uh in the 57 seconds we have left, your book uh, and uh Daniel, I'm gonna go more into it later when but your book uses mainly all purpose.
I'm assuming your editor also said don't use any fancy flowers. Do you use fancy flowers at work or at home? Yes. I I will tell you what I use at work is a combination of uh all purpose King Arthur, and then we have some cake flour, and then we use some farmer ground high extraction, rye, whole wheat bread flour. Yeah.
So all different flowers, different for different things. Which King Arthur or do you use? We use the um the surgalahad. Yeah, yeah. And then um I actually think that the best cake flour is the Pura Snow brand.
Yeah, I but it so you buy it in the in the do they s I only see that in boxes. You can buy the 50s of that or 50 pounder. Yeah, you know what I w I went to Jetro. Oh really? From Bell.
I went to Jetro recently and they actually had some decent flowers. I don't know if they had that they do. Uh you know or miss a Jetro. You never know. Uh it's true.
The uh I went for the first time ever. It's it's insane. The most physically rude people. It's the best place in New York to get into a fight for sure. Yeah, crazy.
Yeah. Get slammed into with those you bo this this dude like literally almost runs into my wife with this damn thing in line. I'm like, dude, she is stationary. What the hell are you doing? No, it's lawless.
Cooking issues. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me.
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