Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, News Stance Studios. Joined as usual with uh John here in the booth. How you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels here in New York.
Hey, how you doing, man? Good to see you. Good to see you as well. Quinny Quinn over there on Vancouver Island in Namimo. What's up?
Hey. Yeah? Good? I'm I'm good. Good.
Uh, and then we have uh a triple threat in Los Angeles, all crowded around uh a single iPhone, their little super spreader radio event. We have Nastasia De Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. Good, yeah.
You sound like you're all crowded around. You leaned back and like like on a couch somewhere, like usually in the distance. And uh Jackie Molecules is there. How you doing? Oh yeah.
The usual, yeah, could care less posture. Yeah, okay. And uh special guest over there in Los Angeles, uh, you know, uh former co-worker uh of mine, l uh longtime uh friend of the show, Austin Hennley. How you doing? I'm doing well, Dave.
How are you? Now you sound clear as a bell. Here is someone who knows how to do a radio presentation, even on an iPhone, puts his face into the microphone speaking. Uh, nice. Yeah, well, you know, don't chew on it.
Don't chew on it. So uh when I first visited you over there in LA, you were at uh Domo, but now you're running the program at uh a Taiwanese joint, Cato, right? Which I haven't been to. Here are great things. Michelin starred the whole nine.
Yeah, so why don't you talk to me about what you're doing over there? Yeah, so Cato was a restaurant on the west side of LA for about five years. They got a Michelin star in that location, tiny little strip mall uh restaurant. Um got a Michelin star without any beverage program at all, which as far as I know, at least um the only restaurant in the US to get a star without a beverage program. Um then uh about a year ago, moved to a new location on the east side in the row in downtown LA with a liquor license.
So that opened up the opportunity to have a wine program and a cocktail program. What's the row? Is that where all those tall buildings are, like the loft and the art studio places? It's it's a development uh in around the arts district in LA that has um high-end retail as well as um a few restaurants. So we're located in there, Hyopto, which is a seven-seat uh Kaiseki restaurant, uh as well as the LA outpost of uh Chris Bianco's Pizzeria.
So, how fast can a seven-seat Kaiseki restaurant lose money, you think? I think that if you have people who are spending um ten to fifteen thousand dollars on wine, I think I think you can stay afloat for a little while. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but like that's the kind of project where it's like, you know, that's the old school adage, right?
How do you make a how do you make a small fortune in the restaurant business? Start with a big one, boom, boom, boom, boom. That's the old thing that they say, right? Because that seems like a recipe for burning money, right? Cause it's like in the old days, you'd be like, I run this restaurant out of my house, my family runs it, and so we make enough money, there's no overhead other than our rent anyway.
Here you go, here's your seven seats, right? But like to pay commercial rent in a fancy neighborhood in Los Angeles, I don't know, man. Seven seats, hardcore, right? I don't know. Hardcore, hardcore move.
Hardcore move. Uh yeah, I mean it it seems like it seems like they're doing fine. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure I just don't understand uh the economics of it.
Uh and uh how's uh how many seats you have at Cato. Uh so we do uh about 65 to 75 covers a night. And uh ten of those are at the bar for an abbreviated menu that's made up of classic dishes from previous menus of the uh that the restaurant had. Right. And so since you won't tell me how many seats you have, how many turns is it?
We do uh one and a half turn. All right, okay. So you're like uh you're like thir 35 plus another 10 at the bar or something like that. Yeah, somewhere around there. Ah, nice.
All right. So uh now uh one of the reasons you wanted to come on, and this is a subject that obviously that's important to me as well, is that you're doing uh getting a lot of press there for your non-alk work, right? Yeah, the the non-alcoholic program has been really well received. Um, and I part of it I think has to do with the fact that keto already had a a clientele that um a lot of them didn't drink alcohol, so it was it's kind of a a perfect opportunity to try something more expansive on the non-alcoholic front. So rather than just having um a shorter menu of non-alcoholic cocktails, we decided to kind of fully lead into it and have more options available.
So we have a a wine pairing um the the menu is nine to eleven courses depending and so we have a wine pairing you get two ounces of wine with each course and then we also do a a non-alcoholic pairing where we have some items that are made by the bar as well as sourced items. So those can be varietal grape juices or dealized wines. And we just brought on um this really great kombucha from a producer out of Brooklyn. So the the menu the non-alcoholic menu is a little bit more varied than your typical handful of non-alcoholic cocktails. How do they verify the non-alcohol in the com kombucha?
How do they verify that? Or do you not worry is it not that hardcore um it's I mean they they in the kombucha they say that it's less than 0.5, which I think that's the legal definition for something. They test it in other words, right? Because I've had I've had kombucha people say that they're conversely on the flip side they're like this is has X percentage of alcohol in it and I taste it and I know that all you know the vast majority of the alcohol has been converted to acetic acid because I can taste acetic acid and I'm not dummy. So I'm like, you know, no it's not you know what I mean so it's like I maybe a lot a lot has changed.
That was a number of years ago. I bet you the kombucha manufacturers now are much better at testing their products and actually knowing what they're providing. But it's such a complicated microorganism uh thing image that like actually tacking it down short of actually measuring it is can be you know challenging, I think. Um I'm I mean I'm I'm sure they are measuring it to be able to sell it as uh with an alcohol free designation. Yeah, although interestingly, have you heard about this thing about this tattoo parlor in uh New York?
Have you heard about this ephemeral? Okay, so it's a tattoo parlor, it's a temporary tattoo, not temporary tattoos, they're called ephemeral, and they give you a tattoo, and the tattoo is supposed to fade within a year, right? And now, like two years later, people's tattoos not only haven't faded, but they just look kind of scrubbed out, like kind of like washed out, right? So this look kind of nasty. And and the and the people are like, what what what the hell?
And they're like, well, you know, maybe fade in a year. Maybe like for a lot of people it fades in a year. That's what they're saying now. You know what I mean? So, like, just because somebody sells it, don't make it so.
You know what I mean? Anyways, especially no offense, you know who you are in Brooklyn. I'm saying, I love Brooklyn, a lot of skullduggery in Brooklyn. A lot of skulldug stars. Am I wrong about this?
Oh, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of skullduggery. You know, not saying you have to be, you know, be doing bad things there.
I'm just saying, you know, if you look at people's claims out of Brooklyn sometimes, not that Manhattan's much better. Oh, speaking of which, I don't want to go any further. Last week, apparently, we insulted Trenton. So, what what happened, John? Rob L reached out on the Discord to put in a good word for Trenton, and I will quote Trenton, New Jersey.
For all of you that don't know like the lay of the land here, Trenton is the capital of our fine sister state, New Jersey, where I spent a good portion of my childhood, right? So that's how I have the right to save kind of whatever I want. You know what I mean? But Trenton, I meanly said, I don't know what they build there, and Trenton's claim to fame is it ain't Camden, right? That's what I said.
So that's like, okay. So then what was that? What was the response? All right. So Rob says it is the pizza capital of the United States, in my opinion, and is a place of great culinary note.
Trenton, like New Haven, had metal manufacturers, which were a major attractor of Italian immigrant labor, and had some of the first pizza bakeries in the new world. Downtown Trenton is widely considered as unsafe today, and the Italians have left for the surrounding areas, and the pizza places have followed. The best pizza, in my opinion, is De Lorenzo and Robinsville, New Jersey, which uh moved from downtown to a suburban strip mall, but it's absolutely fabulous. There's another De Lorenzo run by cousins in the parking lot of a large mall in the outskirts of Trenton that is nearly as good. Either of these are really either of these are easily worth a ride from New York City or Philly.
If you happen to be in Princeton, you're only 10-minute drive away. Yeah. Well, Austin, what you need to do next time you're coming out, right, is like, you know, when you know, leave work, go to Bianca, which I'm, you know, is it as good as the original? I've haven't been to either, so I can't say. But, you know, whatever.
Well-known, famous, great pizza. Have one of those. I haven't been to the original, but this is uh the LA location is some of the best pizza in LA for sure. And is it good but well, okay. Is it great pizza?
Some of the best pizza in life. It's some of the best sushi in Oklahoma. What? You know what I mean? It's like, is it great pizza?
Is what I'm asking. You know what I mean? Um, I would say that by by any standard, it is very good. Okay, okay. So what you need to do is get the Bianca, go to Bianca, get on an aeroplane, eat nothing, water only, land, take the Uber to uh Trenton and try it out.
See what you think. Del Lorenzo's, yeah. Yeah. It's closely mimics what I wanted to do. Remember, I wanted to get us all, I wanted to, I wanted to go to Maine.
I wanted to get sea urchins out of the water in Maine, and then have Nastasia go to Santa Barbara and get sea urchins out of the water in Santa Barbara, both get on aeroplanes with igloo coolers and meet halfway. Totally reasonable, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because like right out of the water, right out of the water, Maine Sea urchins are every bit as good as the West Coast Sea urchins when you get them right out of the water.
But what I don't know, because I've never done it is if I get, and also I've had one right out of the water in the Mediterranean, Marseille, delicious, right? So then if you get them right out of the water in Santa Barbara, are you like, oh my God, holy crap. You know what I mean? I don't know. So he needs to have an equal time out of water kind of a situation.
Yeah. Although it's gonna be a lot easier to get a flight out of Santa Barbara anywhere than it is to get a flight out of Podunk, Maine anywhere. You know what I mean? That's true, too. Yeah.
Yeah. What do you think, Staz? I think I think considering how up in arms uh people are um with people eating burritos on a plane, I'm fairly sure they'd be upset with sea urchin as well. Uh yeah. Well, you're not eating it on the plane, you're meeting halfway and eating it in the airport.
Yep. You ever been to um you ever been you ever been to Nogales, Mexico, Austin? I have not. So Nogales is like, you know, on the on the border between Mexico and Arizona. And it's one of the border towns that, you know, Americans would go to to buy blankets and glasses and stuff like that.
In the 90s, I went there uh, you know, when I first started visiting my parents' house when they lived in Phoenix, outside of Phoenix, and I bought a cow skull, right? Because they had a pile of cow skulls. And I was like, you know what's cool? This is you know, my first time in the desert, you know what I'm gonna do? Buy a cow skull, right?
I ended up buying one also for my father in law so he could have it on his zeroscaped, you know, lawn next to the Seguaro cactus, be official. You know what I'm saying? Because he had a Savaro. He legit had Savaros in his front lawn. Anyway, but he kept the cow skull in the back so it wouldn't get stolen behind the fence.
Anyway, I digress. So I get the uh I get the cow skull and I realize once it's in the car that they you know what a domestic beetle is? No. Domestic beetles are the beetles that eat the flesh off of bones so that you can so that you can have really nice bone presentations that don't rot, that don't stink like rotting meat. Okay.
So I find out that if you don't pay a lot for cow skulls, they don't bother using domestic beetles, and they have a lot of rotten meat left on them. And so as soon as we get in the car, it starts stinking. And so it's stinking all the way back from Nogales to Phoenix. And, you know, they're tolerating it because I'm new in the family, right? You know, I'm still just a boyfriend.
We're not even engaged yet. And then I'm like, they're like, how the hell are you gonna get this on? They're like, it's a carry-on. I carried that cow skull on pre-911. I carried that cow skull with the horns on, and they're like, How the hell are you gonna get in?
I was like, well, if anyone gives me crap, I'm just gonna say it's a bolo tie. I'm gonna wear it. It's my clothes. They can suck it. That's what I said.
I was, you know, a little more whatever. And I brought it home. It ended up getting uh attached to the front of my 1976 Pontiac Bonneville eventually. So it's a carry-on carrier. Yes, that's great.
That's good. I never even thought of that. It's classic. Uh, I don't know how I got there. Anyway, so back to the non-alcoholic program at Cato.
Kombucha, what else? So we decided to have a program that was a little more wide-reaching because I I don't know about you, but even when I did drink alcohol, I don't enjoy drinking cocktails throughout a whole meal. Um I'm a wine with meal guy usually. I'm a cocktail before, cocktail after, wine during guy. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the way it should be done. I mean, obviously, my career is dependent on people wanting to drink cocktails with dinner, but I thought that it was important to give the people who are choosing not to drink alcohol for whatever reason the kind of breadth of offerings that you get if you are drinking alcohol. Start with cocktails, move on to something more venous or wine-like, and then you can finish with a cocktail as well. So that's that was the idea going in.
So we have kind of three different like big categories that you can decide to enjoy if you want to do something that's non-alcoholic. We have non-alcoholic cocktails as well as a whole menu of wine-like offerings that that people can choose to do by the glass or do the pairing. Is LA like New York where you can have nothing and then beer and wine and then full liquor, or is it is it all or nothing there? No, there there are there are beer and wine uh licenses in LA. Right.
Right. Okay. Just curious. Uh now, here's a question. So, like, you know, at XCON, we made the decision to only source kind of super fancy stuff for our non-alcoholic stuff and charge the same amount.
What are you guys doing for uh the cost? The charge rather? Yeah, so I mean, some of the some of the things that we're we're offering by the glass um are cost as much as as wine does. And then you are dealcoholizing that product um and then bottling it and shipping it, et cetera, you're you're adding a step that's gonna be adding additional cost for the producer to the product. So oftentimes they are as expensive as you know, lower cost alcoholic products.
Right. But I mean what I'm saying when you're charging the when you're charging the guest, like are they seeing it as in other words, it is it less expensive, and if not, is it for them to buy in general? And then do people balk at paying the same amount? Because we always said, I don't think anyone's gonna bulk. If they're there to buy a non-alcoholic drink, they want to be treated with respect, they want a high quality product, they're not gonna balk at the price.
That was our theory. I'm asking, I'm wondering if you were seeing the same thing at in your locale. Um so I mean, as far as like the our our we I structure the the pricing just based on a cost like targeted cost of goods percentage. So the non-alcoholic pairing, um we're trying to get to the same cost of goods as as the wine pairing, and at that cost of goods percentage, it's eighty-five dollars for the pairing. Um, and the wine pairing is a hundred and fifty five okay um and then the non-alcoholic cocktails at the same cost of goods as the alcoholic cocktails are fifteen dollars versus twenty dollars and no people aren't balking at the price right how much more labor though is going into the alc non-alk ones because we put a lot more labor into the non-alcs than we did into the alcohol because it just took more manipulation yeah I mean it's a tremendous amount of labor but I'm I'm on salary so it doesn't matter.
Right right but theoretically if you were getting paid for your time that means you'd be you would have to charge more than you do because you're doing it on a cost of a cost of goods not on a cost of production. Right yeah yeah and like uh huh and so how much has the check average gone up now that I guess you can't really compare because you move locations as well so you can't compare check average before versus check average after. Yeah. I'd be interested to and also the the menu at the menu at the original location was was much shorter. Yeah.
So I was never definitely a different ball game but I Yeah. But I can tell you that on any given night our non-alcoholic sales are often as high as our liquor sales. Yeah we never we never got there I guess because we have a bar yeah we never got there no matter how hard we pushed it we never got there. I was also we were never able at existing conditions to crack we I think we did a good job cracking carbonated and we did a good job cracking bilts but we never I you know I never felt happy with any of our attempts to crack a shaken cocktail or a stirred cocktail. You have any results on that?
Um I yeah so I I I I think that it's tremendously difficult. Um because especially with a with like a stirred cocktail, you're you're missing the just the texture of alcohol, which is why I don't really try to mimic or make non-alcoholic versions of alcoholic cocktails. You know, I often I get asked for recipes for you know non-alcoholic negronis or things like that. And I just I don't I think that trying to mimic the structure or the results of an alcoholic cocktail, it's just kind of setting yourself up for failure. So I just I tend to build them from the ground up as their own kind of entity.
And because those two categories of drinks don't really work, I just I I haven't pursued it. Right. I mean I think the issue for me is is that there are certain categories of drink, right? Non-alcoholic drink that have they're very specific and well known. So like tea, right?
So like there's tea and then there's things that have been added to tea or messed with tea, and people kind of understand that there's a lot of obviously baggage that goes with messing with teas, and there's a lot of connoisseurship behind tea, coffee, then there's like your various lemonades, aids, and then fruit juices, right? But to me, yeah, like so. If you're gonna do those, sometimes unless it's got a very specific selling point, well, the teas and the coffees, obviously you can, but like on fruit juices, it's kind of hard to distinguish yourself as being something different or s or special or worthy of a lot of money. Um, which is why I think, you know, when we were trying to do it, I don't we weren't necessarily interested in hitting a particular cocktail, but for me, it's like what's interesting about a like a an a dinner adult beverage is lower in sugar, right? Some sort of complexity, uh, and a specific kind of drink.
Because like a a soda, you'll I mean I pound cocktails, but I'm bad. You know what I mean? But like a soda, you pound a carbonated non-alcoholic dinner drink, you're not supposed to freaking pound it. You know what I mean? You're supposed to sip it.
And what kind of what kind of adds to that structure that is an alcohol? And so, like for me, like I would never try to mimic, as you say, a Negroni, but then on the other hand, like, you know, I don't necessarily want to make something drink like a slowly sipped stirred cocktail just by turning it into some kind of like weird health tea herb bomb. You know what I mean? Which is a lot of you know what you'll see is like heavily bittered, heavily herbal concoctions, you know, that um they're sippers all right. But um not for the same reason.
I feel like a lot of the uh a lot of the things in the in the RTD non-alcoholic space, they are overly bittered, but a kind of bitter that I that I at least find unpleasant, like kind of like a an like that sort of like uh potpourri like floral gension, like sharp bitterness that hits you in the back of the throat. Um yeah, or like you know, when you go to like, you know, uh when you go to Hong Kong and you go to one of those tea shops and they're like, what's wrong with you? And you tell them what's wrong with you, and they hand you a cup of something that's supposed to fix that, it's not supposed to taste good, you know what I mean? And you drink it and you're like, uh you know what I mean? Like those things.
Stas. Remember when we went to one of those places? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hardcore.
Hardcore. Did not finish the cup. Did not finish the cup. And whatever ails me is still ailing me. So there you go.
Maybe I should have finished the cup. Um so then you're just ailing and have a terrible taste in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so we we launched right into this.
I didn't ask any of you guys whether you had anything uh culinarily interesting happen to you last week. And the show's almost half over. I didn't ask you if you had anything interesting. Anyone anything interesting last week? Nothing?
No. All weeks. No? Thinking, not really. Okay, so the two people who are working in restaurants, any particularly egregiously bad uh guests in the past week that you want to share a story about without naming names.
A four-top reservation came in with eight people, expecting all the seated. And how how angry were they when uh they were not seated promptly? Not as angry as they I would have expected them to gotten. They were like rel I mean they were difficult, but yeah. Yeah, were they already lubricated?
Yeah, yeah. Too lubricated was the problem. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, as usual. Yeah.
Increases the incense uh the uh the uh what's it called entitlement exponentially. Sure does. You know? Sure does. Yeah.
Yeah. What about you, Austin? Any any particularly egregious uh guests you want to uh discuss? Well, there's the one one thing of note, and it since this is you know, since I now work at a a restaurant and not a cocktail bar, I don't often have to deal with um the stump the bartender or bartender's choice games that people tend to play. Um, which is which is very nice.
Um, but you know, it does happen from from time to time. Um, and that's you know, that's fine. That's what we're there for. But I had a request. Yeah, okay, go ahead, I finish request.
I want to hear it. Uh I had a request from uh guest for a dealer's choice, old fashioned, no sugar. Don't like bitters. Okay. Straight the person wants straight whiskey.
Bourbon, they want bourbon in a glass. Creative. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. And it was I it was the be creative that really got me.
Because uh I don't know. Um I don't know if he expected me to just pour him straight spirit, but with the feather boa on. Oh, that would have been amazing. Um do you have a feather boa at the restaurant? Uh no, but not an option in the future.
I'll keep it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you need to keep that as an option. You know, in the future. Be creative.
You're like, gotcha. And then you just reach under the bar, put on the boa, and you're like, sweet. Yeah. Yeah. And then they get their straight pour of whiskey on the rock.
Yeah. Um, I have to say this, like I I mean, I I I had to cheat. I did use a little Amaro. That's being creative. Yeah.
Yeah. Sneak a little sweetness in there. Of course. Otherwise, it's straight liquor. Right?
Anyway. Yeah. I mean, and I I stirred it and I straw tasted it before I gave it to him. He's like, oh, what do you think? I was like, eh, it'd be better with a little sugar.
Yeah. Yeah. Uh so question. I know that bartenders hate when someone uh like, you know, says, just make me something or dealer's choice, but it's really I hate choosing my own stuff so much. What I really mean is just pick something off the menu that you think is good and no matter what it is, I'll like it.
Why is that such an offensive order? I don't find that offensive. Yeah. So I'm like, hey, choose something. I don't care.
You know what I mean? I just want to know what you guys do at this bar. I've never been here before. I'm never gonna come again. I'm not gonna write anything about it.
I just want like a uh a drink that you know you guys make well, make one. I I like I don't know, whatever. Apparently I'm you know, of course I'm widely hated. So there you go. You know, bartenders hate that order, and I I'm widely hated.
So there you have it. Uh John, why don't you curiously derive? Notorious here. Notoriously. Uh John, why don't you uh push the Patreon and our upcoming guests?
And by the way, if you are listening live and you want to ask uh us or Austin anything uh about anything, call in 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507 and tell them how to listen live, John. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. We get a lot of great guests coming up. I know we've got Katie Parler coming up uh soon to talk about her new book of food from the Italian Islands.
We get discounts with Kitchen Arts and Letters. We should do uh uh classics in the field episode. Yeah, yeah. Um and yeah, access to the Discord and all the perks that come with that. So uh yeah, patreon.com slash cooking issues and there are different membership levels you should join and check us out.
Right. And uh by the way, uh I think it was last week with uh Caroline Schiff uh at uh what's it at Pastry Schiff, right? Yeah. Uh you know, she was on and we went around the round table and uh played what piece of kitchen equipment would you like? And one of us said blast chiller, maybe it was even me.
And uh Kevin Stadmeyer just wrote in on Twitter saying that you can get there's a sub $2,000 blast chiller now. What was the name of the manufacturer, Quinn? I haven't looked it up, so I don't know if it's any good. What was the name of it? Um Vesta.
Vesta. Anyway. So if anyone has any uh experience with that, let us know. We'll check it out because you know, I love a blast chiller. Speaking of playing games, have we ever played your favorite Newton?
No? All right. No. What's your favorite Newton? Ready?
Fig? Right? Wayne. Right? Isaac or Juice.
I mean, Fig Newton's are pretty delicious. I don't think of them enough. Yeah. Yeah. Juice.
No one knows who Juice Newton is anymore. No, who's Juice Newton? Yeah. Juice Newton's a great singer. Playing with the Queen of Hearts.
She had some fantastic albums back in the juice Newton is the answer to me. Sure. I think it's gotta be Isaac, no? He is a weird dude, man. I think it has to be Isaac.
I thought really long and hard about this, Dave. I think it has to be Isaac. Leibniz, Leibniz came out with calculus at the same time Newton did, and all of those physical principles would have been figured out by someone pretty quickly after Newton, any who ha. He ended up being kind of a vile individual, right? I don't think anyone would have come up with playing with uh, you know, with the Queen of Hearts other than Juice Newton until maybe now that AI can do it, right?
Fig Newtons are delicious. They are the probably they're the or they're the or like you know, Newton pastry, so uh go with those as opposed to, you know, and Wayne Newton, not only do I not know his songs too well, but you know, he's on that, he's on that surgery train, Wayne Newton. He's on that hardcore surgery train. You know what I mean? Anyway, yeah.
Yeah. But I, you know, I asked a bunch of people, and no one under the age of like 45 knows Juice Newton, so I feel it's part of my like need is to get people to go back and listen to Juice Newton. She's she's great. I don't know what you know, whatever. Uh okay.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Well, people don't eat fig newtons anymore. People don't eat fig newtons anymore. Wait, when's the last time? Under the age of 35, you said?
For like anyone younger than anyone, yeah, like, yeah, yeah. They did I mean, I don't eat anything like that anymore. When was the last time I had any cookie like this? It's not a cookie. It's not it's freaking fruit and cake.
It's freaking fruit and cake, Joe. For those of you that watch the commercials for the my favorite cookie commercial back in that era though was Peak Friends. Remember Peak Friends commercials, anyone? No. Peak Friends are extraordinarily serious.
Cookies, they're made for grown-ups. You never heard this? No. No, we should turn this into a little segment. Yeah, yeah.
Old old uh commercials. Anywho. I got the perfect little spinning wheel for it. Yeah, do you? Austin.
Ooh. It keeps going. I like that. Austin, are you saying you've never had a fig newton? Oh no, I have had a fig newton.
Okay, okay, thank God. Okay. When I was a kid, they started. I just don't think they're very popular uh with the Gen Z. Oh.
When I was a kid, or when I was a young adult, young adult, uh, I think Fig Newton popularity started to maybe wane a bit. And it was the beginning of the kind of skewastrophe that's happened in recent decades where, like, you know, it used to be when I was growing up, there were Doritos, right? And then all of a sudden there were cool ranch Doritos, and then there are an infinity of Doritos. And the idea is that if there's a if there's only one Dorito, you're like, am I gonna get Doritos or am I gonna get some other product? Right?
Whereas if there's an infinity of Doritos, you're like, oh, which Doritos am I gonna buy? So it increases the overall buy of Doritos. So then the Newton folk did the same thing with Newton's, and they came up with raspberry newtons, apple newtons, all kinds of things. So the apricot is delicious. Oh, I've never had the apricot new delicious.
I love, I love, I love dried apricots. It's my favorite fruit wrap. You know the Jova fruit wraps or the Joya, whatever it is, the Brooklyn made uh fruit roll-ups, the original ones? Of course I do. Yeah.
Apricot, my favorite, my favorite. Or apricot. Love it. Love it. And Nastassi, do you remember my favorite California uh dried apricot variety?
Blemen. Blenham is correct. Ding ding. High acidity, delicious. Sometimes they're too low in sugar, so they need to be kind of effed with a little bit when I use them in uh in cooking or cocktails, but they're the most because I love high acidity stuff.
And so, like a high acidity dried fruit, mmm. Here's another uh good uh Nastasia. I think this is Nastasia quote. Nastasia, what's the best peach? Do you remember what you said?
No, I don't. The best peaches are the best peaches are nectarines. That's what you said. I was like, zing zing. You want a peach but with less hair and more flavor?
Go with a nectarine. Insulting all kinds of people right there, but I find it to be true. So what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do about it? Uh it's our show, right?
Yeah. Uh so finally, I'm getting to this uh Misos by Bezos uh question, and uh you all feel free to chime in. Uh the this rant is gonna take fundamentally forever, right? And then we're gonna need to like rip through these other questions, which you're all obviously equally. Do you have any do you guys have anything else you want to get in and edge wise before like uh this question causes me to completely unhinge my jaw?
Oh sounds like it's gonna be a lot of fun. Get going. No, let's do it. All right. Okay.
Uh Misos by Bezos uh quoted a a uh what's it called, uh a paragraph or two from a CNN opinion poll. Uh what is Day's take on this recent article excerpt? Uh a food is ultra-processed if you can't make it in your home kitchen, says Marion Nessel, author of over a dozen books on nutrition and food politics. At 86, Nessel, who retired in 2017, holds the title of Paulette Goddard, Professor of Nutrition Food Studies and Public Health at New York University. It is a specific category of junk food that is industrially processed.
It doesn't look anything like the foods from which it is derived, and usually has a lot of chemical additives of one kind or another, she explains. These foods are industrially formulated to be irresistibly delicious, so you can't stop eating them. All right, where do I begin? First of all, let me say that I have a lot of respect for Marion Nessel a lot, right? She ran the food studies program.
Um she was, you know, kind of best known for her book, Food Politics, and she's done a lot of good crusading specifically around false labeling claims and kind of the going back to another word we used earlier, skullduggery that happens in uh in the food industry. Having said that, I think that the this new concept, which by the way, if you haven't already, how many of you guys have already heard uh this uh this catchphrase ultra-processed food? Yeah. Yeah? It's gonna start trending up and up and up and up.
I'm just letting you know that it's gonna start trending up and up and up and up. It first started getting used in the literature around 2010, 2012, right? And it's gonna go uh uh up and up, and I it is kind of it is you know how Sylvester Graham. I I'll get into that later. I'll get into Sylvester Graham later after I've explained some of this stuff.
It is basically the newest scientific spackling over a whole bunch of kind of moralistic elitist attitudes towards the way people eat and to um wishing to change other people's dietary habits to fit what you think is healthy. And the term itself ultra processed, if you look into kind of its derivation, is written in very moralistic uh terms. So I'll I'll go back to one of the early uh papers uh in 2012, Carlos uh Montiero et al. uh wrote a paper called Commentary, The Food System, Ultra Processing, the Big Issue for Nutrition, Disease, Health, and Wellbeing. This is in 2012.
All right. Uh, and this was about, I think he was, you know, in the original group who was kind of uh coining this term as of ultra-processed as being uh something that to look at. All right, so from that article. Uh our general theory is that the global food system, and specifically its increasing domination by processed food products, as specified and defined here, is the big issue for nutrition, disease, health, and well-being. So, right away, by the way, all of these papers are written by people with hardcore axis to grind, by places who whose specific job it is to tell you how to eat and what is considered healthy and what is not, right?
So it's not that their data is necessarily wrong on account of that, but I already don't trust them. It's like when when tobacco people tell you that tobacco is healthy, that is not trustworthy. If a tobacco person pays for a study and then that says tobacco's gonna kill you, all of a sudden I start to trust it more. When people start writing things that are counter to what they want, I trust them more. It doesn't mean just because they have an axe to grind, though, doesn't mean their data is wrong.
But I'm just gonna say that from the from the get-go, right? Uh okay. Um where is it? Uh we begin here by explaining the history and development of the theory of ultra-processed foods, uh and its context and our findings and thinking so far. We also outline implications for the assessment of dietary patterns, development of dietary guidelines, promotion of good health and well-being, and prevention and control of obesity and related chronic non-communicable diseases.
So right there, they're saying, there's something wrong, and we're gonna tell you how to live. Already I hate that. I already hate that. They then go on a notice uh this uh the lead author is from Brazil, and he's and his point is is that you know, in Brazil, sometime in like the in the 80s, Brazil started getting fatter, like the fat like like fatty fat Americans. And why?
What's different? Because he's like, we're not eating the exact same thing that Americans are eating, and we don't have the same culture that Americans are eating. We used to think Americans were getting fat and having these problems just because they're bad people. I'm really paraphrasing. He didn't say any of that stuff.
But he basically wanted to know why is it in what's considered um, you know, a high but more middle income and not the United States or UK, why are we starting to see increased re rates of these kind of metabolic, uh, what they call metabolic syndrome, which is another thing for another day. Uh but he's like, the answer is ultra-processed foods, right? And ultra-processing, as said above, our specific thesis when our within our general theory is that the principal dietary driver of pandemic overweight and obesity and of related chronic non-communicable diseases. Forget how crappy all the data is on just using weight as a as an indicator of health. Specifically, like corrected for your age and whatnot, like forget all the fact that that data is trash and garbage, right?
Um, and of related uh chronic non-communicable diseases, is what we identify as ultra-processed products, while edible and usually very palatable. These are not real foods, right? So here are the moral things. These are not real foods, right? They are fundamentally different from foods that have been processed, however intensively in ways that modify or even transform the original unprocessed food.
So already in the underpinnings of this quote unquote scientific document, and this is referenced and goes through all of the ones that are cohort studies, which I don't want to have time to get into kind of why I think those things are necessarily or often trash can studies, right? But you can already see the moral kind of um underpinnings of uh of what they're saying, right? So they're fundamentally different and somehow worse. Ultra processed products are not made from foods. They are made from ingredients.
Some of these are derived from foods, such as oils, fats, flour, starches, and sugar, but many are obtained by the further processing of food constituents, such as hydrogenated oils, hydrolyzed proteins, starch modified sugar. I don't even know what a starch modified sugar is. I don't think that's a thing. Starch modified sugar. Starch modified sugar?
No, I don't know. They add a starch to a sugar? Not a thing. Not a thing. And extruded or otherwise processed remnants of meat.
Right? So the act of cutting meat up and putting it through a sausage grinder now makes it ultra processed, right? In reality, they're anti-salt, as though salt is some sort of new thing, right? Uh numerically, the great majority of the ingredients of ultra-processed, numerically, uh, are additives of and a variety of types, which include preservatives, stabilizers, emulsifiers, solvents, binders, bulkers, sweeteners, sensory enhancers, flavors, and colors. The function of many of these is to make the product look, smell, feel, and taste like food.
Bulk may come from air or water, synthetic micronutrients may be added to fortify the products. So what you have here is a scientific distillation of this kind of BS garbage pollen trash about how you're supposed to eat what your grandparents eat as though your grandparents were freaking healthy, right? I mean, my grandparents were quite healthy. But my great-grandparents, you know what I mean, or my great-great-grandparents, they ate a crap ton of salt. They ate pork barrel stuff.
You know what I mean? Like literal, like salted pork barrel stuff. So what they consider food are food and minimally minimally processed foods. Stuff you do in the kitchen is okay. So fermentation and malting, as long as you don't make alcohol, alcohol's no good, right?
Uh, these are ancient, and you can do them all at home. These are in quotes, quotes that they say. Interestingly, you can peel things. So you're allowed to throw away all the nutrients from a potato by peeling it. That's fine.
You know what I mean? But still not ultra processed. As is vacpacking and sterilization. For some reason, sterilization is okay. Culinary ingredients are okay to use a little bit.
That's oils, fats, flour, sugar, and pasta, which is very hardcore extruded and made from uh semolina, which has almost none of the whole, you know, none of the brand, none of the germ left at all, right? Very highly tweaked out product, right? Those are all old technologies. You're allowed to use those carefully, right? Uh and then processed foods like canned beans, you can use them spare sparingly.
They're okay because you can still recognize them as food, but really you should be using dried beans. So already, and then stay away from anything that's been processed, like sausage, and they group together a bunch of things that you could easily make at home, especially if you were doing it in the old days. And they literally have pictures in this in this article of like people sitting around a family freaking table and cooking things. And what they're saying is is that if you have the privilege to be able to spend the time to buy a bunch of dried beans and whole meats and chop them up and cook them and enjoy them around the table with your family, that you're gonna be healthier. Ra, rah, rah, right?
It's just a re like labeling of this elitist trash that I hear all the time. And I guarantee you that what's gonna happen instead is this term is gonna be co-opted by big companies because you know who's out to make money? Food companies. And you know what people don't have time to do? Cook a bunch of dried beans and whole meats from scratch every day.
So maybe look at that as the maybe look at the fact that people have to do other things to make a living now, and we can't all sit around and cook dried pulses and whole grains uh all day and do nothing else. And to label breakfast cereals, which were the original health foods, they sometimes they'll say, oh, sugared breakfast cereals are bad. Well, I gotta tell you, some breakfast cereals are basically the least processed things you can do. You take wheat, you shove it in a roller, pop, it comes out the other end as raisin brand. End of story.
Now we they might add flavorings to it, but it's basically a whole whole food. So they're labeling things, they're putting a moral label on it, and it really ticks me off. I really don't enjoy it. Is that clear? And and going back to Sylvester Graham, Sylvester Graham in the early 1800s wrote a book about bread where he basically said the reason society sucks is because we buy bread from bakers.
Those evil sons of bakers, right, are ruining us. We have to have the mother cooking bread at home, otherwise it's not gonna be good. Because it's the love and the fact that she makes it. That is what makes you healthy. And this this newfangled sifting that we use with our flour and these bakers that they bake it when you're not there, they can't make a wholesome bread.
And this is basically newfangled uh grammism. It's grammism under a different uh guise, and I hate it. Okay. That makes any sense? Yeah.
So, you know, it was a couple weeks, mesos until I could get to it, but there you have it. Um, Zach from Pittsburgh. I've trained my mouth to handle pretty uh much any spicy food from capsation. Uh, different story for my gut, though. Do I need to just work on it longer or should I accept that I'm getting old and shouldn't and should stay away from anything above a five out of ten?
Uh a lot depends on how much other stuff is in your gut with it, I think. Like, you know, eating a lot of spicy stuff on an empty stomach is gonna kind of rip it up. But I I've noticed that um my stomach maybe hurts a little more as I'm getting older. Any of you guys notice this with uh spicy foods? Wait, say that again.
So he's having trouble like he can't. Unfortunately, yeah. Yeah. His mouth can take it, but it kind of burns in the in the stomach a little bit. I never have any problems on the exit.
I'm not an I have no exit problems with capsation. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like I've got no fire on the outside. You know what I mean?
But uh, it does hurt my stomach more. But I think so I I relate to this Dave. This is like a story of my life. I mean, uh, I'm the kind of person I'm like always I'm at a Thai restaurant asking for Thai spicy kind of thing, and like I can handle it, but then I'm always like, ah, my stomach feels like garbage, and obviously we know why. But but is there anything you can do to ameliorate it, like eat more of the rice or what?
Uh I haven't figured that out. I mean, I sort of just well pop tums indiscriminately, and I don't really know if that's helping or not. But now you have that little Wayne song going through my head, pop tums, pop bottles. Anyway, uh yeah, that's little Wayne, right? Um Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know, Zach, but it's interesting. We'll we'll talk about it and think about it more. Uh Colton Johnson writes in a number of years ago I was shown a trick to reduce the resting time for fresh pasta dough via vacuum ceiling. We should have done this with Caroline was on. Uh would this also work with pie dough?
I have a recipe that is very reliable for an all butter top crust, but seeing as I'm in patient, I was just curious, maybe if anyone has tried this. I don't know if this would work with every kind of pie dough, but seeing as my recipe has very little added water, I thought it might work. Thanks again for the new Searz all. Uh looking forward to searing all things while I'm glad you got yours. Um we still have uh we still have uh about how many, Quinn?
About a a hundred and ten that still need to be shipped because of uh the customs issue. Uh yeah, I'll have to have to double check those numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Um well, so the vacuum trick is to is to speed hydration. I mean, what I think you should do is go use uh Monroe Boston Strauss's recipes where he uses uh non-high gluten flour uh and alters the water so they don't need any resting. That's what you should do. His pie doughs don't need any resting, and they are delicious. Right.
But if it does require a rest, I'm assuming that rest is due to hydration, and yes, vacuuming should speed it up. And pie crust doesn't really require. Ah, it's interesting. If you're if you're going for super flaky, I wonder whether or not vacuuming it would damage its ability to kind of puff away from the from the water in the thing. Probably not, especially if you're not sucking too hard of a vacuum.
I would say try it and let us know, right, Stas? Try it and let us know. That's what Nastasi always used to say. Try it. That is true.
That's true. Yeah, try it and let us know. Why don't you teach us something, right, Stas? No. Yes.
Yeah. Biff Dit. Question for Dave. If liquid water doesn't change to a gas until 212 Fahrenheit, that's a hundred for you Celsius, folks. Uh, how is it that things will dry on, say, a 75 degree day or human sweating?
Well, interestingly, uh, sweating is how you actually cool because uh it turns out that uh anytime there's more moisture, right, in something, right? It's like stuff's gonna be evaporating off of it. All the boiling point is is the point at which um how am I gonna put this in a way that makes makes sense? Boiling is the point at which the rate of molecules uh I say how am I gonna put this in a this is gonna get complicated real quick, right? When you boiling takes energy, right?
It's called the heat of fusion, right? So uh it is I forget how many calories per per gram, but it's it's a lot. It's a lot, right? So it takes a lot of energy to boil a gram of water and turn it from liquid water into into heat, into uh steam, right? At boiling, right, you're at the temperature where, like the kind of that's what's what's going on, right?
In at a lower temperature, because uh the the water molecules are all moving at different speeds, right? They're moving at random speeds. So the temperature that something is at a particular point is fundamentally the average of uh, you know, it's related to the average of the motion of those molecules, right? The average speed of those molecules. So uh because that's an average speed, some of those molecules are moving quite quickly, and some of them, when they get to the surface, have enough energy to escape, right?
Because they're going at the same speed that would be the average speed in a boiling liquid. And they will escape. And when they do escape, they take that excess energy with them, and in fact, the liquid cools down. And that's how sweating works and how evaporation works. So the heat energy, right, from that's required to evaporate the moisture when it's going off, is actually cooling the liquid down.
Now, a lot of times you won't notice because the ambient heat from the environment is uh is added in, it doesn't get appreciably cooler, but if you get a good breeze across something, evaporative cooling is quite quite effective. In fact, that's how swamp cooler works. It's also the reason why the temperature around a roast chicken is never exactly uh, you know, at the boiling, right? Because of evaporative cooling coming off of it. In fact, it's one of the most it's the one of the the most important and also least understood aspects of cooking.
So the boiling point is just the point at which the vapor pressure of the of water in the atmosphere that's 100% saturated is the same as the vapor as is as the vapor pressure that coming off of the of the liquid, right? And if you were to have uh a hundred percent saturated environment like Louisiana, then you wouldn't get evaporation, right? Or if you seal a container, you won't get evaporation because the water will evaporate off the surface of the liquid until the until the atmosphere above it is saturated, and then it won't evaporate anymore. Does that make sense? That explain it a little bits, a little bits, a little bits?
All right. Johnny Baseball. I seem to remember Paul Adams talking about using a paint sprayer to spray olive oil rather than those annoying hand pump sprayers or standard cooking spray. I'm interested in trying it, but curious if Dave has any experience or remembers this at all. I do not, those are propellant based, usually some of them are compressed air, some of them use propellant.
I haven't used them. The main issue with uh sprays is clogging, actually. So like a lot of the commercial sprays uh will add lessithin, and that is the reason why you really shouldn't use them on nonstick because the lessithin will gum up over time and gum things up. Same on like on your cast iron sometimes. I don't like to use those sprays.
I use the grilling ones, the high temperature ones, which I think have a different additive uh in it. So it might work, but you have to be careful about clogging your uh tip. Does that make sense? But maybe it works. Let me know.
I'm looking for a good pump, a good spray, right? Remember Fabio? The the the big chested no-shirt, like uh long haired, like raw ass novel dye. Yeah, yeah. He used to he used to repair him.
I don't know, I think he's still around. He's still Fabio. I think he used to rep, I can't believe it's not butter. So he'd be like huge and sexy with his hair, and he'd be like, I can't believe it's not butter. And then he did the spray version, and he literally the commercial.
And so we all used to say this, like, you know, we all all our friends used to be like, I can't believe it's not butter. Spray. And we're like, so gross. Such a gross idea next to this, like Adonis. You know what I mean?
Anyway. Were you ever a Fabia A Fabio fan stuff? No. No, God no. No.
In my mind. Do you think he's hot, dude? No, I mean he was his romance novel hot. He's he was literally a romance novel model. Yeah.
But he also he looked, he has a little bit of a Kenny G look about him. Maybe it's just the hair, right? Anyway. I mean, he looks ridiculous. I'm looking right now.
He looks absolutely ridiculous. Does he still have the pecs? Does he have now pec implants? Have you seen like a freaking Sylvester Stallone had all the implants so in the expendables, like no part of his body was moving in unison with the rest of his body? You ever see that?
Kind of amazing. Amazing. Fly writes in. I enjoyed hearing about your experience interacting with AI recently. Was wondering if you've read about or played with AI recipe generation, uh, and then look at this uh pre-a Christian article in the New York Times uh about an AI Thanksgiving and whether you think it has any value or is just novelty.
I mean, a lot of the AI recipe stuff, uh, I don't know, man. Anything that's delicious is fine. You know, anything that's delicious is fine. I think, like, you know, if you need some sort of like, you know, magic eight ball or random number generator to give you new good ideas, great. But in the end of the day, you look at a recipe and you're like, that looks that sounds good.
I'm gonna make it. You know what I mean? And so if an AI does it, uh, great. If a human does it, great. But the you know, the way that I look at recipes is I not I only not only read, I'll read like 20 recipes of of a particular thing, I'll look at the ratings, I'll look at the recipes, see whether I agree with it, and then I'll read the comments to see what the knuckleheads said about when they made it.
And so, like, you know, once the AI is good enough to do all that for me, then sure, I'd pay a nickel to have an AI do the same thing that I do anyway, but at the end of the day, I'm putting my eyes on it and deciding whether it's something I I want to make. And, you know, until a computer is eating it for me, I think I'll continue to do that. Um what do you guys think? Anything? Any comments?
Any AI comments? No. From StardeBart Fast. Uh can't believe I was able to pronounce that in one shot looking at it. Uh, to make the greenest of green herb oil, what is the temperature target when blending in a Vitamix for optimal chlorophyll extraction?
And in a and a uh there's a related question on nettle soup. Most kitchen seems to use spinach to greenify the oil. Spinach cheap has a lot of chlorophyll. You know what I mean? Uh, are there different temps to hit for different herbs?
I'm curious about which essentially identifying aromas might be lost or least volatile. Uh present it in a graph for supporters. You know what? I just don't know the answer to it. Um in general, um, you heat herbs when you want to destroy the enzymes in them that would otherwise cause uh oxidation.
So the best thing to read on this with temperatures is uh old. It's uh Harold McGee's pesto chapter in The Curious Cook, which uh, you know, is still available, might be online for all I know. But he talks about blanching temperatures. But those temperatures, those blanching temperatures really do fundamentally alter the nature of the oil. Theoretically, if you blend uh in the complete absence of oxygen in oil, you should be able to extract all of that stuff and then get rid of all the liquids before they oxidize, and then the coldest thing you can do is probably the best thing.
You won't need any kind of oil, uh, won't need any kind of uh temperature at all. In fact, when we were doing herb oils, uh, you know, back when we were hawking the spinzall first, we we tried to keep it as cool as possible, correct? Yeah. Yeah. The only thing we would heat are things like capsation, where we're trying to take a dried pepper and extract all of the spice from it, and that takes you know, energy and time.
But herbs, as soon as you blend them, they bleed right into the oil. So I wouldn't say you need uh high temperature at all. I think it's oxygen's your enemy and water is your enemy. Um Christian Sacco, hey team, if you're brining meat, uh what per uh cent salt would be appropriate. I recently did a 1.5% brine as I would for most meats, but the bird came out way under seasoned.
Uh obviously losing a lot of salt to excess brine. Yeah, really, you want to think about total brine concentration. And also most of us don't salt uh things like chicken until they are fully brined, i.e., days. So in general, I use a higher brine concentration like 3%, and I only do it for a couple of hours. Realize that you're not equalizing on that.
And so you need to have a much higher salt concentration uh than you would for the to penetrate all through. And as it cooks, some of that salt will penetrate uh through. So a lot of it depends on how long you're gonna soak it, right? So it's the longer you're gonna soak it, the lower you want the brine to be. But in general, I go for a higher percent for shorter period of time.
And obviously, the more brine you're using, everything changes. When I'm doing actual fully brine recipes, I calculate total meat and uh water weight and do my brine percentages based on that. But that's a different story. Kevin 81. Last night I made nettle soup.
It was great dark green before I blended some potatoes in and it turns swampy colored. What's up with that? Well, you know, uh the chlorophyll uh will change at a at a certain point. So it might be that you just kept it hot too long, whipped a little air into it. I don't know that it was the potatoes per se, although I forget which reaction it is, which metal ion is swapped out for which when chlorophyll chlorophyll goes from being green to being gray, but it could just be uh a time situation.
John, you have anything on that with nettle soup? Anything? No. I don't know. But anyone in the Discord, please let us know.
Warren Johnson, I'm looking for advice on how to uh from uh Cam loops, right? Uh looking for advice on how to get the most out of a trip to Spain this summer. Outside of d oh, you're about to trigger John. Outside of digging into the Google map on Discord, do you have any advice on what to eat, drink in Madrill, Seville, Sevilla, uh, Jerez, and uh Barcelona? I haven't been in many years, so I don't eat a lot of ham, obviously.
But uh, I want the Discord to chime in, tell them to go look at the thing and give him some good advice. Misplace enthusiasm. Sorry if this has been covered in the past, but does Dave or anyone have any insight into buying fish and making it suitable for sashimi at home? I've heard it has something to do with freezing and killing parasites, but does it just boil down to what level of risk you are comfortable with? Yes and yes.
And it boils down to what level of risk, but uh most sushi is supposed to be previously frozen to and there's vitally to kill the worms that are in it. But obviously, like anything else, it comes down to managing risk, right? Uh Austin Gibbs question why does oil shimmer when heated? Is it a physical phenomenon, meaning perhaps the oil is tumbling over uh the pores of the pan when you tilt it, or is it a visible manifestation of the heat stored in the oil when you tilt it? Uh I don't know.
Would love to know what y'all think. Probably a simple question that I'm overthinking. You know what? I don't know. Do you any of you guys know?
No. I do love that look though. Does look good. Someone, someone chime in on this. Maybe McGee.
Maybe next time we have McGee, we'll ask him. He probably knows this. Um, okay, we have time for another. Yeah. Living in San Francisco is from B Done.
Have access to incredibly fresh Dungeness crab. Hope you have access to time. God, I hate cracking open Dungeness Crab. I love making a Chipotle uh Chipotle Mayo using the crab fat with oh, I love you. Love uh Filipino crab crab fat sauce.
Oh good, so good. Uh with egg, mustard, lemon juice, and chipotle, then tossing the crab meat in to make tostadas. Man, you some you have some fancy tostadas there, be done. Uh is there a way to prolong the life of this product? I get weary of using it a week late, but would love to use it on other non-crab dishes as the tostadas vanish faster than the mayo does.
I think that stuff with the high salt content preserves a long time. It probably changes, but I know I have crab uh crab fat paste that's been in my fridge for well over a month, and I'm still eating it. It's got a high enough salt and oil content. I think it's fine. Uh oh, we're out of time.
So I have some more questions. Uh I almost got to all of them uh from the Patreon. One, two, three, four. We'll get to the four that we miss next week when we have as our guest. Katie Parlock.
You said it like a like a machine. Casada. Something in my throat. Katie Parlow. Cooking issues.
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