Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking News coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newstand Studios. Joined as usual with uh John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
Yeah. For real? Yeah, for real. Okay. Can't complain, yeah.
You could. I mean, I could, yeah, but I don't need to right now. So wait, you can't complain because other people have it worse, or you can't complain because you don't want to complain. The latter. Don't want to complain right now.
All right. All right. Okay, cool. Uh got Joe Hazen rocking the paddles. How are you doing, Joe?
I'm doing well, man. Good to see everyone. Yeah, how's it? Nice hat. Oh, thanks.
I'm repping the uh I'm repping the uh the Edwards Age Meats hat. What do you think, John? How's that looking? Looks great. We're a fan.
We're a fan. Big fan. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do we still have our uh thing with them?
Can they still uh Patreon people still I don't know about right now, but uh Edward came stopped by the restaurant the other week and he said he wants to get it going again for the holidays. So we will reach out to him and get something going. Yeah, his uh his hamburger mix. Have you tried his hamburger mix? I haven't.
I tried his beef jerky the other day, two different types of beef jerky. Very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good products. Yeah, beef jerky.
Yeah, yeah. Uh well if we have time, which we won't, we'll talk beef jerky because I feel that like there's so many different kinds of beef jerky. And like some people like the teeth-ripping beef jerky, some people like the chummed-up jerky, like jerky chum. Yeah. You don't strike me as a chum guy.
No. I mean Dietrich's is the best beef jerky out there. Yeah. I'll say, yeah. Do you I like an Asian chum jerky though?
Like a chummed up sweet Asian jerky. Yeah, you know, I've only ever had that once, so I can't say, I mean, it was delicious, but yeah, I don't I need to. I consider it an entirely different product. Yeah. They're not the same.
No. Yeah. No. In other words, that is not the same as like a bull crap beef jerky where they just pulp the whole thing and shoot it out of a freaking tube and dry it and sell you that instead of real beef jerky in a gas station. Not the same.
Not the same. No. Not that I have anything against that product from the way I'm talking about. Yeah. All right.
Yeah. Uh we will not be having uh Quinny Quinn up in the upper upper left corner because uh he has to do some Quinn things today. So that's uh that's a shame. Well hopefully we'll have him back next week. Uh but we do have uh our usual uh Los Angeles crew in Los Angeles with our special guest today.
So we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, how you doing? Good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Uh Jackie Molecules, what's up? You uh you uh getting used to being back in the United Uh States of America. You're getting used to everyone being impolite again? Yeah. I have to say Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I have to say, like, uh, you know, uh whenever I travel to a place where people are polite, like as much as New York City really, really, really, really grates on me, like I'm like, please stop being polite to me. Not that polite. Don't be that polite. Like, did it wear on you or did you like it the whole time, the politeness? No, I like it the whole time.
I like how orderly everything is and uh how quiet people are. Because I, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'd I'd rather be there, but really it's fine. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Okay. Okay. And today's uh special guest, uh directly from Cato Restaurant in uh Los Angeles, where uh all of well, not you, not you, John. You're not a member of the not a member of the team anymore. Not you, Joe.
You were here in New York. But you know, whatever. We did take McGee. Uh yeah, yeah. All the cool people, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, all the cool kids went. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh Han Suk Cho. The uh now, so Han, uh how you doing, Han?
How you doing? Hello. Thanks for having me. Oh yeah. So uh what what's your what's your what's the title at I don't want to get it wrong, what's the title at Kato?
My title at K2 is bartender. So but like like are you like the head bartender though, right? Or do they not have that? Is like it like how does it work? Like I don't know how you guys work it.
You know what I'm saying? Um, well, it's a very small three people team and our our director is Austin Hanelli and his two kids are bartenders. Yeah, yeah. All right. Uh and uh you were named uh what was it best was it this year's like best bartender in the universe by Punch or something like this?
Like best best bartender galaxy. There's something like this. I don't remember what it is. Well so what what was that? What was the award you just got?
Yeah. Yeah. It's uh punch's best new bartender of twenty twenty-three. But uh uh what uh what I don't understand about that, congratulations, is uh you're not not an you're not a new bartender. Um I mean like new compared to me.
You know what I mean? Like new compared to someone who's about to die. But you know, it's not it's not like you it's not like you woke up yesterday and started doing this, right? You've been you've been doing this for quite a while, no. I guess what what's what counts as new?
Well, that's a very deep question that I can't really answer to you. Yeah, but I've been in the restaurant industry for like a little over a decade, but as uh like alcoholic beverage, bartending, it's been about a year. Well, but do were you weren't you doing NA programs all the way back before the pandemic in like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen? Yes, but that wasn't exactly the bar setting. Um creating yeah, pairing programs, but they uh didn't have like the physical bar.
Yeah. I once saw somebody win an award for best new chef who was in her 40s, and when she got the award, she was like, Thank you, but I've been doing this a long time. Anyway, uh but I get what you're saying. It's like uh because you're saying it wasn't in a bar bar atmosphere. But of course, Cato is also you're at a bar, but it's also a restaurant too.
No. I always think that's a restaurant bar. Yeah, I always think the cocktail media has really I'm glad it's it seems to be changing, but they've always kind of shortchanged restaurant programs, restaurant bar programs. Um, and usually it's because the chef, I you know what I'm being non-charitable, but it's usually because the chef, I think doesn't want the extra limelight to go to the bar program, and so the PR dollars aren't behind it. That's my guess.
Cause as you know, like PR does work. You know what I'm saying? But that's an interesting point because m a lot of times bars are you know, the most profitable part of you know, department of the restaurant. So I think the restaurants should start highlighting the bar more so they can make more money. Well, as a you are a uh so people know, you were formerly uh you're one of those back of house, you're one of those creative type back of house, front of house train like trajectory folk, which I a hundred percent appreciate, right?
Because uh correct me if I'm wrong, you started as a a composer. Then chef. Yes. Yeah, then b then bar, right? Um so so you have a good perspective on this.
I think uh a lot of it also is that uh I hope this is changing since the pandemic, but you know, there's always been so much friction between the back of the house and the front of the house crew just because of the money. You know what I'm saying? Um that the back of house also is just so mad that the it in a typical restaurant, I'm not saying in your place, but in a typical place at the front of house crew is pulling down so much more money per hour than they are. And I think that's also causes some of the friction. Well, I think that issue has been changing a lot, especially since pandemic, and you know, I see more back of the house folks leaving the industry more than front of the house because of the similar reasons.
So a lot of like business owners and you know the directors are steering the direction of everybody getting getting paid pretty similar, which is a great change I'm I've been witnessing. Yeah, well, uh those yeah, the the whole labor structure in restaurants is so deeply broken, I don't really know what the answer is for fixing it, to be honest. And I don't think there's any way that we could I don't I don't even know what what a good position is. I've s most attempts I've seen, good attempts, seem to I mean, a couple people have it working well, but it's tart, right, John? Yeah.
That's someone who's dealing with this right now. Yeah. It's real hard. It is. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. You know. Anyway, I don't know. Um, so uh this is the portion of the show, Han, where we just kind of shoot the breeze.
I enjoyed your cumquats that you gave us, by the way. Good to enjoy. Yeah, yeah. So we were we so we all went to Cato. John wasn't invited.
I don't know if you know that, Han. John wasn't he wasn't invited, but I hate you. But Nastasi and Jack and I got to go. Hey, you know, uh it's taste, so we had a whole tasting. I don't know how to do it.
Oh amazing. Oh, that's so cool. Tell me more about it, please. Well, there was also a non-alcoholic flight and an alcoholic flight. Yeah.
Cool. It was nice. Amazing. I wish I could have had partook in that experience. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, but you weren't invited to that one though. Oh, yeah. Just like I um, but you know, uh on the downside, you would have had to go to a poly shore show afterwards. Fair okay, that's fair.
That's fair. Yeah. So it's like, you know, you know, a little bit of a trade there. Los Angeles give it. Los Angeles, take it away.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, not not to insult Nastasia's boyfriend. Uh all right. So not going out with Polly Shore, at least not in the real life.
Okay. Don't spread that. I just said you're not. Okay. For real, not.
She's not. She's not. She just keeps running into him in coffee shops. Anyway. Uh all right.
So uh now's the portion. Now is the portion on Sprockets when we talk about the week in review. Any interesting uh food and or beverage uh issues happened to anyone in the past uh week. So Dave, um I went to an Oracing salmon event. Oh my god, I wanted to go to that.
So oh, you sons of guns. Yeah. You were in New York, or there was one out in LA. No, it was out in LA. I was flying back the day that they had the one in New York, and I heard that yeah, you would it was great.
I heard the official huge enormous huge. That's how he gave us like 30 or 32 pounds. All right, so I you know I love Laura King, but not that they're no longer a sponsor, is the big fish I'm kidding, I'm messing with you. Does it does the big fish uh so like you know, John Fabro, who was uh the person there, Mike my ask Michael, my brain just you know my brain fuzzes out sometimes. Old.
You know me? Anyway, so uh I want to actually we need to have him on the show at some point because you know he's doing Ikajime with his uh coho salmon, and his coho farm was just in uh in the New York Times recently. Uh something about sustainability on it. Uh maybe with the Ora King salmon article stuff too. There's just like a whole salmon article in the New York Times that came out last week.
Yeah, he sent it to me, and I only had one takeaway from it. You ready for it? The average person eats in the United States of America. How many pounds of salmon do you guys in LA think the average person eats a year in the United States? Five.
She says five. One. Okay. Anyone on? Anyone?
One. Han, what do you think? One is my guess. Hon, are you gonna do prices right here? You're gonna go like it.
Three whoa, three is the ding ding ding. Three is the answer. Oh and so like I look at that and I'm like, well, hell, Booker is like 52 Americans right there. Kid, you know, the kid will eat you know, three pounds of salmon in a day. You know what I mean?
Like uh, you know, if he had infinite money, he would single-handedly wipe out all salmon on earth. You know, he's more than a freaking bear. Kid is nut. Anyway, so I saw that three pounds, and I kind of wanted to show it to Booker, but of course he won't read it if I show it to him. Like, Booker, the average American.
So there is no person who has eaten this quantity of salmon ever, and so nobody knows what happens to your health when all you eat is salmon. You know what I'm saying? In the same way that that, you know, a couple of months where he ate the food service jar of squid ink in like a couple of weeks. No one has ever eaten that much squid ink. Like, even if you were trapped on an island and you dried down all the squid and all you ate for a week was ink sacks, you would not eat as much squid ink as Booker consumed when he went hard on the ink.
Anyway. Binging is bad, you know? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to talk. Anyway.
Uh, so the Oracle was so the was the big salmon as uh delicious as the normal size salmon, more or less, or same. More or less same. I mean, I don't know. I didn't have a side by side, you know. Oh, they didn't do side by side.
Well, they did side by side. I don't know how they did it for you, Jack, but first they did a side by side of the fresh and then of the two week aged. Oh, how was that? Interesting. Okay, I don't want to hear interesting.
What's the difference? Because it dry aged. Because you know, Harold McGee is super interested in this whole dry aging of fish. I mean, the texture was a lot firmer. On the on the old oh, but it's on the dry edge.
Because it dehydrated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um color color darker. Uh-huh.
Looks, I mean, obviously looked like a little dried out, but the color was just a lot darker and more pronounced. Um flavor. Flavor was good, still just as clean. The fat melted a little differently. Not rancid or oxidized.
I mean, it must have trimmed a lot off the outside, huh? I think they only trim like the scales off with a knife. And then so you still have that like really thin layer of skin on the outside. Oh, really? Yeah.
They left the white. You could see the white. Yeah, yeah. That's some bizarre stuff. That's some weird.
I don't know. I never leave that white crap on. I mean, like, you're not dry aging either. No, I meant when they serve it. Oh, no, no.
When they when for the dry edging, they left all that on, but when they served it, they trimmed everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You ever seen uh the old Japanese trick on like uh flat fish of cutting the scales off without cutting the skin? I don't think so.
Oh, it's sick. Sounds fascinating. Han, you seen that one when you were when you were uh working in restaurants? I love that. Where they they just slice the scales off.
Sweet. It's awesome. That's what this guy does, I think. Yeah, they go backwards and they slight, not scraping, they literally like cut like on a fluke or something. They'll just cut the scales off, and it's still gray.
It's still the skin. That's what they did to the salmon. Yeah, it was very cool. Yeah, it's super cool. Because it comes off like in a line.
They're like should booing, and the scales just not like uh you know what I hate? I hate when you're scaling something like uh, you know, like a like a northeast weasel like I am, and you're sitting there and the freaking scales are hitting you in the eye, they're like falling in your in your drink. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Speaking of this, my stepfather's up on the cake.
Does it make the skin like taste better when it's cooked because it's not as um dented? What when when they do with the knife? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, because uh they weren't really cooking the stuff that they were that we were working with with that.
So I don't know, I never cooked it when we did that. It's an interesting question. I can't remember the last time that I worked with fluke where we cooked it. Most of the time when I we were getting fluke back when I was working with that stuff, we were getting it, you know, fundamentally live and right out of the water, and we were doing raw prep on it. Um crude-styly preppies.
I don't know. It's a good question. Uh but apparently bluefish are hitting like like a mother right now up in uh up in Cape Cod, like just like huge freaking bluefish. Get this. So my stepfather's a surfcaster, right?
And uh, so you know how like there's been a lot of shark attacks, right? I mean, more than normal. Yeah, well, it's because there's so many freaking seals, and so the sharks come in to eat the seals. But you know how like seals are protected? I mean, unless you're with you know, Jack at a restaurant, in which case probably that's the appetizer.
Wow. But um, so what happens is that you catch a bluefish or a striper, and the seal's just like, no, you don't. And the seal just grabs the fish and then just eats it. Well, and you can like the seal is strong enough, it's like a dog. You you know, you can't pull it out of the seal's mouth.
It'll just break your line. So you just have to sit there and wait for the seal to be like, because the seal doesn't usually eat the heads, he says. And so like you just reel a head in. So, like, you know, if you're if you're with a buddy, which he never is because Givard hates people more than he hates almost anything else, right? Uh, if somebody casts towards the seal, they'll duck down, but then they'll come they'll come right back up, get your fish.
You guys have this problem in California? Seals eating your fish. No, not yet. No. Uh so Han, question.
Uh so you started as a composer. I think that's interesting. Uh, what kind of compositions? Like what style of music that and and in I heard that you you started working in restaurants to kind of supplement because you know, you weren't no one was getting rich composing music. Is that correct or no?
Oh, that is pretty accurate. Um I was doing classical music composition. Yeah, a little like timber music for like classical instruments. Right, but like like uh like tonal stuff, atonal stuff, like what style of like classical, like stuff that like like super avant gardy stuff or or what? Um I um I used to call myself a fugue guy because I loved fugue at some point.
But you weren't like doing organ you weren't doing organy stuff, it wasn't organy style fugues. I used to listen to you cannot have a stereo loud enough. You know what I'm saying? A fugue s needs to be super loud in my ears. Needs to be so loud, needs to drown out your existence in my opinion.
That's how I like to listen to it, but yeah. Yeah, that's one way to do it. Uh I was writing more like you know, flute and piano or like flute and violet. Flute. I heard I heard fugue.
I heard I was thinking to fugue in D minor. I was like, I was like, I want like you know, fan of the opera to come punch me in the face. I heard fugue. I apologize. Do you also like fugues?
That's like um written in fugue uh form. Okay. I need you to get together with uh Nick Coleman and do flute versus Bansouri. Uh I want it to be like dueling banjos. You get to be the normal one, and he gets to be the weirdo on the porch if you've ever seen Deliverance.
Let me know when I should hang up. I wonder, like, have you you you've heard dueling banjos before, right? Right, Han, the tune. I don't I don't think so. Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness. Do you uh uh I mean are we cleared to play that? I mean, like uh I I met so one of our old interns who's an author, uh her dad wrote it, and we met him, uh Brick Brickman, uh Marshall Brinkman, who was like, he came up with a Swedish chef. He's like like an e-he's an e-got. Okay, right.
And he shows up and he had arthritis at the time, so he didn't play that much anymore. He's like, I wrote dueling banjos. I was like, what? So you know, bing, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, bleeding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, bing, ding, bing, ding, ding, anyway, so you need to do this, but with flute and bansuri, and the the way it works is is that one person is like portrayed as being just like he grew out of the porch he's sitting on and has never moved. And the other one is like, you know, just a tourist.
It ends poorly. Oh, uh, oh whoa, man. Oh no, don't look, don't look at John tells me to look at the screen, and Joe's like, don't look at the screen. All right, so uh back to where we're talking about. So you're at the restaurant.
I wouldn't, I don't know why I'm going there because I was curious. When you were at the restaurant cooking, you I heard that you were your specialty, and I love this, and I'm gonna ask you about it, Tempura. The you were a fryer person. You you you you spent a lot of time next to a fryer. I appreciate anyone who fries a lot.
Yeah, I once I realized that the fun of you know cooking between water and oil. Yeah, oil is a little more dangerous and tend to be a little more fun and kind of slightly more delicious than water blanching. No, yeah, of course. I mean, oil's gods. Oil's gods cooking.
Come on, please. But my question is when you're doing uh tempura, so I have a like a like a when you were serving it, were you serving it? Like, how did the service go? Did it go like directly? Did you use like a like a traditional, like, like wide, shallow tempura fryer, constant skimming directly onto somebody's plate, or but because it was at a restaurant, did it have to get like go through a pass and go out?
Did you have to watch it sitting on the pass and your and your your heart is crushing yourself and you're beating your head against the wall because you see it dying? Like, how did it work? Um definitely the latter. And I did beat against my my head on the wall for a very long time. But but that's just you know, it is what it is.
And when you go to Japan, you see, you know, like little bento boxes that's been made for a few hours and has tempura in it. And that's also kind of a beauty of it. I know like that tempura sounds terrible, but that's also beauty of it, just like cold pizza. Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up.
So I know that there is a whole bunch of people on earth who love cold pizza. I'm just not one of those people. Do you love you love cold pizza? I also, by the way, I understand that picnics are fun. Don't don't even tell me that picnics aren't fun.
Uh cold fried chicken crap on that too. Seriously. Like, you know what I mean? Like rip the skin off, recrisp that, make the rest into salad, call it a day. That's you know, like I'm like, ooh, it's oily in mealy.
Awesome. Great. Picnic. You know what I mean? Like, uh, but I realize that I'm a bad person, that I am the abnormal one here.
All right. So what do you guys think about cool pizza mine? The point of picking it is that you are out. Yeah. Right.
So like yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I would rather whatever. I I get it. You made fried chicken the night before and you know, you're gonna take it with eating the painting. I get it. I get it.
Whatever. Uh all right. When you're doing tempura, uh any tricks for us. Um yeah, this doesn't exactly work when you are um battering something that absorbs the batteries, such as mushrooms, but when you're making like tempura with like vegetables, you know, like carrots or like sweet potatoes and whatnot. Um reducing the ratio I don't have the exact ratio, but reducing the ratio of water slightly lower and adding vodka helps to make it lighten up if you want to make your temperat a little bit lighter.
Right, so you're pro you're pro the the vodka in it. How often would you remake your how often do they make your did you choose to remake your uh your batter? Are you one of those clumpy ice people like ice plus clumps? I do I put in the ice bath so I don't have to like keep um adjust the the thickness. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Temporary man. Ice bath or yeah, ice with a lot of like salt when the kitchen is really hot. Yeah, constant skimming hell with it.
Hell with it. Anyway, all right. So uh so let's talk about non-alcoholics what do you well what do you want to I have a question for you actually so you're known now for for making uh non-alcoholic uh non-alcoholic drinks, um doing non-alcoholic pairings. Um I have a question. I'll just do the question.
Should I just do the question? Do it the question. I gotta read it because it it uh it's on a tiny screen, so you have to apologize. Uh I have to apologize. All right.
This is from JPM question for Han. Uh question about developing NA drinks. When it comes to cocktails with alcohol, people often talk about basic formulas, not basic in the sense of like bad, I think. Right. People still use that term, call you basic, meaning you suck.
Yeah. Meaning you're a plebe. Yeah. Yeah. Sub basic, basic.
Uh when it comes, I mean, I'm proud sometimes to be basic, you know what I'm saying? A basic man with a basic plan. Um basic formulas that most drinks fall into, uh, e.g. stirred drinks, old fashions, Manhattan's, Negroni's, etc. Although those are all well, all for those are all stirred drinks.
Old fashion is not a stirred drink though, JPM. Built different, different whole different set of criteria. Uh also talked about uh Death and Code Mr. Potato Head method where you take a drink that you know that works and just sub in a similar way. Uh have you found that there are similar templates for non alcoholic drinks?
Uh also have you found non alcoholic drinks to be as flexible as ones with alcohol in them when you're using the Mr. Potato Head method. What do you think? I recently learned the Mr. Potato Head method.
And before that, um Yeah, doing non-alcohol in the sology first was definitely like different experience. Because there was like no like non-alcoholic books, not not many of them in 2018. But what I like to um substitute alcohol like base spirit is I like to use either like teas, either caffeinated or non-caffeinated, or any like um forage material concoctions or even clarified fruits or vegetable juice. But not um a lot of times it's not like too strong to take over the whole drinks. So I can like season it with different you know, syrups or um alcohol-free bitters.
Oh, so do you uh speaking of alcohol-free bitters, something I don't actually have that much experience with is like uh using glycerin as an extraction base. So how like when you're I'm assuming you're using glycerin as an extraction base with non-alcoholic bitters as well as doing just like tisanes, which is a stupid word, but I apologize for using it, but you know, whatever, I don't know what to say. Um I really hate that word. I even hate that even more. Um but uh yeah.
Free and francophone, francophile. Anyway, so have you done a lot of work with glycerin extraction? Yeah, that's been um incredibly useful for non-alcoholic cocktails because you know you can season it with a lot of things. Um and I use this method where you um vacuum seal the or crawl back the glycerin with whatever the spices I wanna use and su be it for 165 Fahrenheit for 45 minutes. So it's like a quick bitter method, but instead of using alcohol, I'm using the suple glycerin.
I wonder how pressure would work with glycerin. Or like pressure plus heat. I should test it. I should test it right now. Um but uh color extraction is usually also pretty good with like uh fruits with glycerin, right?
Yeah. And uh for the like base like base liquid. Um I wanted to publicly share this knowledge I figured out late recently, which is um when you're using like spinzole for like fruit or vegetable juice, after it was spin and shoot off the spout, there's always like little layers of foam on top. Skin skinning that makes a huge difference of the um clarity. Yeah.
Well thanks, and thanks for pushing the spinzel. I appreciate anyone pushing the the spinz all right, S. Oh look, I can see you guys on the screen now. I did not know you're up there. I don't know what's going on.
I just work here. There's a spincil right there. Oh, really? Oh, you got the spinz all on the thing? Lift it up.
You know my eyes suck. Or no, the cerez. Oh, steerzol, stereozol, seriously. All right, oh jeez. Yeah.
Well, we gotta get you. Well, yeah, would you use one? I would use it. All right. All right.
Get you one of the get you one of the E Bs. So now, when you're if you're using a bitters with glycerin, you're already going a long way towards adding body back to a drink that's going to be low in sugar. But if you and I've heard you talk about it, so you know, I know you do, you want to reduce the sugar, and I've had your stuff. It's not like sweet, not cloying, right? So if you're doing like uh especially a carbonated drink that you want to drink uh adult, right?
So i.e. low sugar, and you want to get the sweetness down to like the equivalent of like the equivalent of like five, six bricks, right? I'm assuming somewhere in there. Not that not how much is in it, but what it tastes like, right? The sweetness taste, right?
Uh so what what kind of techniques do you what kind of techniques do you like to do to reduce the sugar? Like glycerin, I use glycerin all the time. That's my favorite. But like do you use alternate sugars or or what what do you what do you like? Yeah, I actually don't use um alternate sugars.
And yeah, I use a glycerin for the flavoring, and like if the drink needs just sweetness, I just use regular, you know, cane sugar, because that feels the best with your tongue. But most of the drinks I make is just no sugar, like sugar kind of sweetness added. Right, right. Just whatever came with whatever was there. Yeah.
Right. But that's when like uh yeah, that's when like for me, especially like it's difficult. That's why I just use glycerin. But there's gotta be other stuff. Like I know people who use um less sweet sugars and they're adding a lot of it.
What's hilarious to me is is that like they have all the calories of a standard of a standard soda, like all the calories of a standard soda, because you're actually consuming that much sugar. And for some reason, I don't know, I need to get over it. I have a mental issue because I consume beverages so quickly that the idea of just pounding that much sugar, whether it tastes sweet to me or not, just kind of mentally bothers me. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense?
Because like I grew up drinking, um, I grew up drinking, I don't drink flat water. I've never drunk flat water like my whole life. I don't drink flat water unless I have to. If I'm going to a place and I don't want to make everyone else at a table pay for sparkling water and sparkling water is not free, I will drink the flat water. But in general, I don't drink flat water.
And so I drink such a huge amount of liquids that it I don't know, something about drinking large amounts of sugar just drives me nuts. I don't know what it is. Mental problem against I don't know. What do you think? Not about my mental problem, but about sugar.
Also using like the base um something like fragrance to like mimic the feeling of drinking something sugary, but there's no sugar, especially as like was math as flour or something, you know, tastes smells like vanilla or caramel through the keys. It kind of helps to sting the drinkers like this is like off dry or like slightly sweetened, but there's no like actual sugar added. Yeah, some things do do that. Like uh we used to do a a thing with um uh gymnemia silvestre, which is you know um herb supplement, and we would break it out of its pill. It's disgusting.
You would swirl it around your mouth and it tastes incredibly bad. Uh Stas can verify this. She's done it many times, and then you can't taste anything sweet. It wipes out your sweet taste. It's disgusting, right, Nastasia?
No, bro. It's the worst. And then, like, you know, but everything tastes dead neutral except honey. And I think it's the aroma. So even though like you literally don't have the ability, your tongue no longer has the ability to taste sweetness.
You still perceive sweetness when you're doing the honey. It's interesting to me. Um I used to use this trick. Um kind of it it sounds bad, but when you use just a little bit, it adds the sweetness, which is using clarified bell pepper juice, like the paprika, the big sweet bell pepper. The red one.
Yeah. Like the juicy one that does that is not exactly like peppery, but more like sweet ones. Because they have a lot of like water content. So clarify it and just adding it hint, gives a nice um slight sweetness, but you can't really tell what it is. Huh, it's interesting.
Uh you know, I have to try it because uh I have tried using it in alcoholic drinks, and I've never tried using it as a very small amount modifier, and because it gets weird when it's when there's a lot of it, you know what I'm saying? When it's the primary, it's kind of weird. I don't know why I think that, but I've always thought it's kind of weird as a primary. What do you think? Yeah, that's why it works as a like modifier, just like adding a little bit of MSG in your food too, like oomph a little flavor.
Do you do any uh MSG in your NAs? I find it difficult sometimes. Like uh sometimes it's okay. Yeah, not MS. Yeah.
Yeah. I had to do something savory the other day for uh Dave Chang for the recipe club. And I tried a couple of different things to add a little bit of savory, but I ended up going with something that was more sweet savory than savory savory. I ended up going with coconut aminos because it's kind of like straddles that line. Anyway, I couldn't even believe I still had a bottle of coconut aminos around.
People still use that stuff? I think so. This one is like aged. So my coconut aminos are like vintage coconut aminos from when that first happened, like I don't know, eight years ago or whatever. Everyone's like, oh, if you tried coconut aminos, no, I'm gonna buy it.
And then it's still around. I mean, it's still a liquid. You know what breaks after a while? Elixir vegetal. You ever st store that too much?
Chartreuse elixir vegetal? No. Breaks. It breaks, the chlorophyll goes shiboig, like flocks together, thing turns brown, crap settles to the bottom. Not pleasant.
Doesn't sound pleasant. Great product, not a pleasant thing to have happen to it. And I've had standard chartreuse that's like old as hell, and it's fine. But the elixir vegetal, maybe don't age it for years and years. All right.
Uh all right, guys. But if the coconut amino got like better after it's aged. You know what, hon? I gotta go buy a new bottle and see. It was sweeter than I remember it.
You know what I'm saying? It was is it always dark brown? It was dark brown, sweet, like almost, yeah. I mean, I felt like it wasn't oxidized, but maybe more matterized, right? If that makes sense.
So it was like, I'll buy a new bottle of it and I'll see side by side. But I don't think anyone, I don't think it's worth somebody go around and stockpiling this and waiting eight years and then starting to serve it and always making sure that they have it. I don't think it's like that worthy, but it did work in this drink. So get this. Chang wanted me to do my pork chili recipe as a cocktail.
Can you imagine anything more horrific than that? Can you imagine anything worse conceptually than that than a pork chili cocktail? That's gross. I don't want that. Anyway.
So I ended up anyway, whatever. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what I ended up doing. Uh all right. Um, here's some questions.
Uh do you uh Han, do you do any guy? Do you guys do any work with uh nitrous and nitrogen? Anywhere in the restaurant. Yeah. Only CO2.
Yeah, well, CO2 is, you know, that's all you really well. If I do a thing again, I definitely want to get a nitrous tank again because now it's pretty easy to buy the adapters for the EC bottles. And uh what I really like, so when at existing conditions, when we were doing infusions with uh nitrous, we were doing them in like uh in small kegs in like uh one one and a half, three gallon corny kegs. But the problem with those kegs is is that they vent at a too low a pressure. So when you jack the pressure with the thing, they would shh and like you're like, ah, geez, oh my god, you know what I mean?
So and really like it is sucked, to be honest, right? But the good thing about it that way is that um all the recipes that I have for uh nitrous, like the the volume is very important in the whipper because the volume determines the pressure and the pressure changes the infusion. When you use a tank, you can just choose the pressure, right? So now in the past like three or four years, it's now pretty cheap to buy an adapter so that you can just screw a regular EC onto a tank and nitrous directly from a tank instead of using chargers, and then you can get the pressure the same every single time. So maybe convince, you know, maybe next time I talk to Austin, be like, oh awesome, I'll get some nitrous, man.
Come on, get some nitrous up in there. Anyway, um, a lot of confusion on nitrous versus nitrogen. So I think that's what this question is about from uh minwa. Uh they've read uh oh yeah, a while ago, it wasn't last podcast. I read uh the question they had about uh uh nitr nitro, but then ended up on a rant or a tear on about American gladiators.
So I'll not talk about American gladiators this time. Although Minois enjoyed watching American gladiators growing up. Uh is it possible to resubmit the question? The question was have we played around with the different properties of nitrogen versus um nitrous and you know, uh you know, nitrous laughing gas. Uh, I'm very interested in the application of nitrous.
While it's not as creamy uh as nitrogen uh in applications, it does offer a perception of sweetness to the drink without adding sugars. All right, I will say this. Um, first of all, I heard that nitrous is gonna get uh controlled in the UK. Do you guys hear about this? No.
Yeah, they're gonna make it a controlled substance and they're trying to figure out because a bunch of bartenders and coffee weasels are like, this sucks because we use it, right? Um, but there's a huge confusion in the hospitality community and at large about the term nitro. So, like nitro coffee versus nitro uh nitrous. And I really think that you should probably there's no good way to get around this because what are you going to call something that uses nitrogen? What are you going to call it?
Like people call it nitro, right? But nitro is has was nitrous before nitr nitrogen in cocktails was a thing, right? So like nitrous, uh nitrous oxide was used before nitrogen was used in the way it's currently being used in cocktails. They had beer gas, beer gas was nitrogen and CO2, and that was called beer gas, not nitro. Uh, but the idea of injecting nitrogen, I mean, Guinness has been doing it for years in the widget.
That is nitrogen, right? Uh, what then they what do they call it? They don't call it nitro, they just call it widget, right? I think so. Yeah.
Uh because they had a patent on it. Um, so a lot of the early people who were doing work with coffee were using nitrous oxide, which, as the person says, is sweet. So nitrous oxide is soluble. It's going to make bubbles. And then that if you have a lot of tiny nucleation sites, it will also create a constantly replenishing foam on top.
Okay, just like carbonation will, right? So it acts like carbonation, except it um, except it's not carbonated flavor. Instead, it's slightly sweet and on its own, rather kind of weirdly sweet, like like saccharin sweet, like fake sweet, right? You've tasted it, right, John? Yeah.
Yeah. So it has the advantage that it's very soluble, so it's also very useful for it's soluble in fats and alcohols as well. So it's useful for things like infusions and whipped cream, where you're using that solubility property in the fact that it changes to do infusions. Nitrogen, right, is used because it is not very soluble. So you put it under high pressure, and when it comes out, it forms micro bubbles very quickly.
And that's when you get that rolling Guinness head, because you get a bunch of tiny bubbles instantly, but then it doesn't keep making them because it's already out of solution because that's what it is. Uh so nitrogen is good uh when you want to pressurize something and spray it at high force through a nozzle to do like uh to mimic a shaking drink on a tap, nitrogen, uh, because you don't want residual carbonation. If you want that sweetness, but remember it's very fugitive, right? So you have to worry about being fugitive. My problem with using nitrous nitrus in cocktails is that uh the sweetness perception of the drink is gonna change radically over time as the gas evolves.
That's my issue with it. All right. Did I answer the question and not go on to an American gladiator thing? Was that covered and smothered? All right.
Okay. Uh all right. Do you ever do uh could you also do the alcoholic stuff? You ever do any hot buttered rum stuff, huh? You ever get you know do you do any hot uh I know you do like some hot drinks, but any any you ever do a hot butter rum?
Because I have a hot butter rum question. I don't I don't remember what the answer is because it came in a couple of weeks ago. I'm gonna read it, see what you say, see what you got. Uh so Ninja Soustaphone writes uh looking to replicate a hot buttered rum batter recipe, but make it vegan. Oh, this is a good because like uh I know you do a lot of work with uh with different uh milks.
So anyway, any recommendation for butter substitutes to do the job best. Currently using uh smuggler's Cove hot buttered rum recipe, which you know a lot of spices, black pepper, huh? Interesting. You put black pepper in your in your now, right? Interesting.
Uh, but it's basically cinnamon, nutmeg, black pepper, cloves, allspice, anise, uh, and then a whole boat ton of butter and sugar uh and some uh molasses and vanilla extract. Melt it, whip it up, and that's the stuff that they blop into the top of their of their of their rum. But what do you have any uh you have any recommendations for that for vegan? I mean, uh, I wouldn't know what to say other than use coconut oil. I mean, yeah, and like maybe add some add some solids from some other like I mean, I but I don't know.
Like, what do you think? Any good, any better ideas? I personally enjoyed um pumpkin seed milk very much because the flavor is um compared to like sesame or coconut, the flavor is slightly more neutral and has like enough bath and the texture is pretty like nice too, without any like additives. I mean, you have to obviously shake it once in a while, but yeah, pumpkin seed milk, highly recommend. So, where do you get good pumpkin seeds that don't taste rancid when they're done?
Because like pumpkin seeds, this is a good idea because we used to buy the oil because of the color is amazing and it tastes good, but it goes rancid so quickly that it's hard to keep around. Is it not the same problem when you're using the milk? Um, the shelf life is definitely slightly shorter than sesame. But yeah, what's worse? Rancid sesame or rancid pumpkin.
What do you think is worse? Rancid. They're both real bad. Rancid pumpkin. Rinsed walnut is the worst.
Oh, you're right. Oh my god, it's so bad. I think there's a whole group group of people who think they don't like walnuts because they've only had rancid walnuts. I mean, retoasting it helps a lot of times. Throwing it in the trash helps.
You know what I mean? Eating eating eating your walnuts faster helps, like like vacuum storing them and like not letting them get rancid. All that helps. Just like, you know, buy your walnuts in a small quantity and eat them. Do you think it's because we're not a walnut culture that everyone has their walnuts too long and when they finally taste them, they're like, oh, that's why I don't like walnuts?
And it's really not that. It's because we don't, we're not a walnut culture. Probably. I think walnuts are delicious. They are.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when they're rancid, oh my God. Because they don't just taste bad, they taste poisonous.
You know what I'm saying? Like uh, like there's a paint, there's a there's a solvent thing that happens in a rancid walnut that you're like, I've been poisoned. You know? Yeah. Speaking of poisoned, I was at Bagelfest this weekend and I had to eat so many bagels.
So many bagels. And because last year I insisted on only eating bagels, this year they're like, yeah, we're just doing blind tastings of of plain bagels for for you guys. These other guys got to go around and eat whatever, and I was only blind tasting Were you really hoping to get the blueberries? Is that where you're disappointed with the planes? Oh my god, blueberry bagel.
You're in Los Angeles. I assume that you're ground zero for blueberry bagels and all sorts of atrocities, all sorts of food atrocities. Is that true or no? Um bagels have been rising more lately, but yes. Yeah.
Um, blueberry bagel. Yeah, nightmare. Who's got the good bagels? Dave, I might understand you just did. Dave, you just did a tasting of plain bagels only.
How many plain bagels did you eat? Sixteen. Oh my God. I mean, not the whole one, but yeah, we had 16 different bagels and we had to go back and around and around and around. But what was interesting is that um of the ones that we were tasting, like a lot of like the super well-known, a couple of the super well-known people like put their stuff in, but a lot of them didn't this year.
Whereas last year, you know, we had uh uh, you know, like Essa and those those folks, but like, you know, w it's not to their advantage to be in a situation like that. They can only l Essa could only lose by being in a situation like this. You know what I mean? There's nothing for them to gain. And the crowd was a lot that the bagel crowd, the 16 that we tasted, was on whole less sweet than I thought it was going to be, which was nice.
There were some football-y situations. I think the average American right now wants a very like want a bagel crust outside, but they want like a they want like a squishy. What do you guys think of bagels that when you squish them, they s they don't pop back up? They're like too, you know what I'm saying? They gum when you push them.
I'm getting a shake of the head from John. No, getting a no from no. That's a no from babe. What about you, Joe? Where are you on the on the bagel that's like super fluffy?
Shouldn't you be able to tear a bagel and not have it be crushed into nothingness like it's freaking wonder bread? I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so anyway, so good bagels, but really some different styles.
I'm doing different styles. Like uh remember Omo, we had we had Omo on. Olmo, he has gone so far in that style that the bagel I had that that he put out there, the outside, if you didn't know better, you'd say it was almost fried. That's how like crunchy and like blistered the outside is. It looks like, you know, like a fried takeout noodle, like not greasy because there's no oil in it, you know what I mean?
But like that level of just like and I was like, wow. And I know for a fact, because he's on the show, right? That he's doing steam in the conve esteam combi and then combi it. So he must have that convection cranked like a mother. All the time, yeah.
Like cranked. I've never had, I've never had anything quite like it. So to me, like that now is its own object, right? So when you like you have that next to like, you know, I had very traditional bagel from uh what they call Starship in Dallas. I was like, wow, it's traditional bagel, not New York.
I was like, good. You know what I mean? Anyway, enough of bagels. Let's get back to where we are. Uh so you think pumpkin, you think uh they should try.
Now the thing is, is there enough fat? How much fat do you think is in the pumpkin seed milk? Hmm, lower, definitely lower than other like normal nuts like almonds. It's a little slightly like leaner flavor and texture, but there is some fat in it. Right, because this traditional buttered rum recipe, right, aren't emulsified.
Like whenever whenever I was doing like like uh both hot and cold buttered rum or any sort of like fat in drink, I always emulsify it. I always add uh, you know, acacia and Xanthan, like Ticaloid powder to emulsify it so it's straight in. But traditionally it's not. So I think they're gonna want uh like a layer of fat creaming up on the top. You know what I mean?
Hmm. But I wouldn't, like I said, I wouldn't, unless you are very rich, I wouldn't recommend buying uh I mean I've never bought a pumpkin seed oil that wasn't already a little off. You know what I mean? Like, where do you get the good stuff? Milk, you make it.
You can buy a good seed. Yeah, well emulsifying pumpkin seeds oil to pumpkin seeds milk. Yeah, to get a higher fat content. But and think of how beautiful that would be. Think of how green that would be.
It'll look so nice. But um, yeah, I just don't know. I've never had a I mean getting good quality olive oil is slightly easier, so maybe emulsify with that. Because they both have kind of a green grassy flavor. I mean, depending on which olive oil, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't uh don't trigger in case he in case he listens, don't trick you first of all. The guy that you're gonna do the Bansouri battle with, right? Flute versus Bansouri, he is an olive oil uh he's an olive oil explorer. What do you call him? Like a Shinado.
But he's not just an aficionado, he flies all over the world, finds producers, and then bottles their olive oil. What do you call it? I don't know, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, what do you call it?
Obsessed. He's like uh, yeah, he's like uh I don't know, like Audubon without the racism. You know what I mean? Like someone who travels the world and looks for something. I mean, he was a bad guy.
Autobahn was a terrible human being. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's awful. You know, pumpkin seed style rancid.
You know what I'm saying? Like bad dude. Anyway. Uh, okay. So uh I think we answered that question, right?
All right. Uh what do you I don't even know? I don't even know. Any of you guys mocha pot people? Anyone?
Joe? Anyone? No. Son of a gun. All right.
So I'm gonna put this out there in case someone on the on the Patreon or whatever. Dave Kleiman, two things. One, what's the best mocha pot and why? I don't know, man. But the problem with the uh aluminum ones is they they just get so crappy over time.
But I've never owned one of the stainless ones, so I don't know. What's the best way to prep coffee beans for it? I don't know. You know what? I just don't know.
We need to find a mocha specialist. You know who else we need to have on? We need to have on Turge, because I think more people need to talk to a Turkish coffee specialist, right? That stuff is delicious. Uh all right.
I was in coffee store in Thailand and I saw pressure tanks quarterly for liquid nitrogen. Is it safe like this? Uh it was for sale for about $25 a tank. It was being sold without instructions or safety equipment. What's the story here?
Absolutely. If it's a pressure tank, no. And I'm looking at what if these are the pictures that you sent, no. Do not buy that. Do not buy that.
No. Uh, yeah. So uh liquid nitrogen can't be stored in uh in tanks like that. Uh gaseous nitrogen can, but they need to be certified. If they have a cert on them, they're fine.
Uh, but that won't be doing what you want for LN. It's not like a brine mill. Anyway, Will Robinson writes in question I've been playing with whiskey high ball whiskey soda, and I really want to hear our thoughts on this problem. I think uh he mentioned doping in um uh vegetable glycerin at like sub 1% concentrations, you can go up to 2% to get the right mouthfeel as the Toki machines have. Has he given any further thoughts to this?
I always add glycerin to high balls because a token machine, if you taste Toki on its own, it's very high bodied because it's meant to withstand a lot of dilution in. I mean, Toki was designed specifically for high balls, right? Uh so whenever I use other whiskies or even that one, because the Japanese ratio for a high ball is very high water. I always add glycerin. But that's basically what I do.
Just add you yeah, you have any uh do you guys do any uh any of those whiskey highball things, Han? Oh yeah, we do use Toki for our high ball force carbonated, um, and there's also a little splash uh Pinot de Charant for like the fruity, the juiciness, and instead of water, we use coconut water. Hmm, which a little bit nutty and that gives uh we use some harmless brand. Yeah. Yeah, this is yeah, this is Austrian's recipe.
It tastes good, harmless. I've never done coconut and Japanese whiskey. I've done coconut and scotch. Yeah. It tastes good and you know, after a while it oxidizes.
So it kind of color brings out like pink-ish, like brown pink ish, which is pretty attractive. So you're pro that oxidation? Yeah, because some coconut waters do that and some don't. Like we had a couple of drinks at Booker and Dax back in the day where we were using fresh coconuts, which sucks. Sucks.
In New York, especially. Come on. So stupid. Why do we do that? And so like some of them would be pink and some of them wouldn't.
Weird, right? Yeah. Uh oh, hey, before we run out of time, because we are, uh, you want to talk about your uh company because you do uh you do RTD, um you do RTD um non-alcoholic cocktails, but you only sell them to restaurants, right? Yes. Um, so I have a company called Zero Proof.
It's uh foda alternative beverages, like sparkling beverages. Some of them are sweet, some of them are not sweet. The flavors are inspired by like Korean culture. And so, like and yeah, we yeah, we um source two restaurants because they pair well with food, and I want people to enjoy it with food. Well, also I'm sure, like, you know, look, I was on your website and it's very kind of ingredient-based.
Do you stabilize them? You probably don't pasteurize or stabilize them, so it probably would be a nightmare to sell it to regular people where you can't control what happens, right? Yeah, it's um pasteurized with um the sulfite. Right, right. So the shelf shelf light is slightly longer, and yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But what's the format? 187s or cans? It's um, it's a bottle. It's 187 yeah, yeah, 1870.
Yeah, it's a good format. I like a 187. That's what we used to use all the time, 187s. I hate bottling them. Do you like how much do you hate bottling carbonated 187s?
Because I hate it like a lot. Um, I learned to love it because that's the only choice. So do you just do you just kind of zone out when you're doing your like now? I am a machine that bottles things. Yeah, man, man, I hate that so much.
Yeah, just don's no nut and listen to cooking issues and oh yeah. Oh, that's quite nice. That's quite nice. Um, all right. So uh we have a question here.
Actually, you should probably tone in on this with your we already talked about glycerin a little bit, but Ashkash Bagash said, Hey all, I have a tincture question for people in California. We still got two minutes, sorry. Uh I have a buddy uh in California trying to make some tinctures, and it sounds like you can't buy high-proof alcohol there, nothing over 60%. Is anyone aware of any workarounds or alternative solutions? Well, the glycerin's not gonna be the same, but do you do you have a a source for high-proof alcohol when you're doing that kind of work or no?
I I did not have source of pie proof alcohol, but I mean I did night tincture with um like vodka or like high proof, you know, neutral spirits. Yeah, you know what's interesting is that like uh when you're doing any sort of tincture work, right? It's like the the flavor is so different depending on the proof uh on what your extraction is, right? So, like I say, I haven't done that much work with glycerin, but like the taste of a not just the strength, but the taste of like a water base versus a glycerin versus uh, you know, a 95% ethanol versus 40% ethanol. That's all pulling different ingredients out.
And so, you know, I don't know. It's an interesting it's an interesting thing. I didn't know that you couldn't get that stuff in California. Here's another one. Ready?
We got a couple seconds left. Zev writes in. You you'll you'll be good with this, uh Han. Question. I've been savoring the last of the California stone fruit season.
Just bought a bunch of white nectarines that were browning from the browning from the inside out, okay? When you cut into them, the centimeter so flesh under the skin is great, ripe, sweet, and normal colored in the flesh surrounding the stone is brown pulpy, mostly tasteless. I've never seen fruit ripen this way, so I assume it's some sort of disease or defect. Do you have any idea what causes it? Uh or like, you know, how to get around it.
Um I think um I think it's just you had a lot of water this season, right? I think it was very wet summer. Yeah, so like I think it's just I don't know, but I'm guessing it's something called split pits, which is a defect that happens when the fruit gets big too fast, uh, and then like you get a hollow thing around the seed, and then that part can get fungus and rot and get all nasty. Have you seen that this year with your with any of your fruit? I have seen it actually from like mangoes and avocados too, not just um peach.
Yeah, I mean, fruit doesn't want to get that big that fast. I mean, it's not a chicken. You know, I'm just messing a chicken doesn't want to get that big that fast either. It's just we forced it to. You know what I'm saying?
I mean, it's gross. Uh all right. So you want to tell them uh in the zero seconds we have left what you did with the kumquats in case someone wants to go make some Han style kumquats. Oh yeah. Um just take all the fresh kumquats from your friend's tree, um, cut it in half, seeded, and smothering the sugar so the juice melts the sugar and you have like kumquat juice syrup, and with the fruit part, um the skin, you can try it out.
Yeah. Now, uh, should you leave your friends with any kumquats on their tree, or should you take every last kumquat? Um, depends on is your friend Harold McGee. Yeah. Yes, I'm well known for I I stole all of his Kumquat tree uh kumquats and the tree got so mad it never bore again and then he moved.
So I'm a terrible human being. Han, thanks for coming on. Are you looking to increase your business in LA? Should people uh hit you up if they want to carry zero proof in their restaurants? Yes, you can find me at um Instagram handle at drink zero proof.
Super. Go to Cato Restaurant, check out the tasting menu. Oh, you know what? I didn't ask you, son of a goddamn. I mean, shoot.
I wanted to ask about tasting versus full drinks. All right, next time, cooking issues. Thank you.
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