Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Marlowe, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live and very, very sweaty. From New York City, Heart of Manhattan, Rugfeller Center, News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John, actually back. You weren't here last week.
Good to have you again. How are you doing? Great to be back at the time. Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing?
I'm doing well. You're looking good. You came in like a little like a BAT out of H E L L L. That's true. Little AT double hockey sticks.
Because uh this morning I was in the sugar honey and the iced tea. Uh got uh Nastata Hammer Lopez back. How you doing, Stas? Good. Yeah.
And are you uh where where are you now? You're in uh Los Angeles still? Oh yeah. Uh oh yeah. I am uh I hear uh Jackie Molecules in the background, also in uh Los Angeles this time.
Yeah, freshly back from Austin, Texas. All right, we'll talk about that. And in the upper upper left, Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. Good, good, good, good.
Uh all right, so uh, so what's up? What do you oh by the way? If you guys have any questions, uh call in your questions too, and I forgot the number. Yeah, I will. Uh we'll get it eventually.
Uh but uh 718 497-2128. That sounds about right. Say it again, but give it some uh Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. 7184972128. 2128.
I'm gonna correct you all. Damn. Oh, wow. All right, hold on. Give it one time clean.
One time clean. 917 410 1507. You've call now. Uh so uh if you want to uh know how to become a Patreon member or what you get for that uh bonus, why don't you talk to him, John? Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues.
There's a couple different membership uh levels, different perks with every level, uh including discounts of people we work with, like uh one of our friends at Glassvin, you get 10% off. And frankly, everyone gets us too with code Dave Arnold, capital D, capital A. Um, get discounted. Not my idea, by the way. That code, not my idea.
Um discounts uh with our good friends at Kitchen Arts and Letters and just a whole bunch of other great things. So check out patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. Uh all right. So uh Austin, Texas, hook me up.
What do you got? Um had some good food actually. I went I I didn't realize they had good Sessuan. Uh first a few friends took me to a place called House of Three Gorges, uh, which is a crazy name of the place. And that was great.
Kamuri, Tatsuya, Good Isakaya. Um although the third place I went to, I won't name, but multiple people were like, oh yeah, one of the best burgers in Austin, one of the best burgers in Austin. The bottom of the bun was black. You know, what do you mean like burnt? Yeah, just burn burnt.
Uh did you say, hey, you've made an error, or did you look around and everybody had bottom burnt bottoms? It was like a divey bar situation where there's a little bit of attitude. So I wasn't gonna be that guy that goes up to the counter and like, excuse me, my bone is burnt. Really, though? Really, though?
I mean, like uh if they have attitude, I mean, what's Austin attitude like compared to New York attitude? Like on the attitude scale, like where are you? Like, give me like pairs, right? So you could have walked up and crushed them. Like, how are you intimidated by Austin based attitude?
You know what I mean? I've lived in LA for four years, Dave. You know, I've lost my edge. You need to come back for it. You need to re come back and recharge.
Here's the great thing. I I've said a lot of negative things about New York, even though it is my town. Uh, one thing I have to say, it'll only take you like a week. You get back to New York, and you know, you'll go from being like, hey man, like within one week, one week, you'll have it back, and then you'll be able to go to Austin and get the bun you deserve. Bun I deserve.
Was it at least was it at least buttered? Uh no, it was like a chibana bun. What? No, I don't know what planet thinks that a cabata is the ideal burger vehicle. It's not.
Not at all. Oh my God. I mean, I like a chubada. Let's not give me wrong here. A cabata is not a terrible piece of bread.
You know what I mean? But no, I just like it. Not for a burger. What do you like a chubba? What do you guys like a cabata for?
First of all, when a ciabatta is too white looking, it means they under salted that thing. They went like closer to no salt. I hate that. Right? I hate that.
You know what I'm saying? Uh, but like, what what do you uh I hated that as uh Chef Alan said Chef Alan Sayak, right when I started working for him, I think I said this on air before. This is the reason I don't shake hands at all when I'm working. Is uh he reached out his hand to shake my hand, which didn't give me a choice because you know, he was like, you know, he's like this like the running the school at the time and like you know, famous chef and all this stuff, Franch, all that. So I can't refuse my hand.
And I say as I reach out my hand, I'm sorry, I just washed my hands. And I dried them, but not you know how you dry your hands, but the the kitchen towels never get your hands dry. Yeah, you know what I mean? And I shake his hand and he goes, I hated that. And so from then on, that day.
Like, you know, like 15 years ago or whatever, I just never, when I'm working, I just won't shake people's hands. You know what I mean? Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Things it's the things that stick with you. You know what I mean? Yeah. The little the little moments that uh that stick with you. Uh how'd we get on that?
Oh, what are we talking about? Burns? Ciabatta. Yeah, ciabatta. So what what's a what's a good end use for a cabata?
I have to say I was thinking garlic bread, but no. Sandwich? Like what kind of sandwich? If it's arugula mozzarella and prosciutto. Correct.
Give me a more like basic but Italian flats flatish sandwich. Italian style flattered sandwich. Mortadella? Have you did you did you read that New York Times article about mortadella? No.
So uh there's a uh I I forget her name, but she's she lives there in Bologna. She lives in Bologna. And uh or Balagna, uh, as we say, and uh, you know, she's like all of a sudden in the past like 10 years, it went from being a university town and a food town that you know, most tourists, I guess by that they she means Americans and Germans, like uh kind of you know, didn't go to. It wasn't on that on that heavily traveled tourist route in that in that area. And she says, now it's completely overrun by tourists, and all it is is mortadella shops.
So apparently, like there's like 30 times more mortadella being pumped out of uh uh that you know there than there has been ever before. And every other shop is called Ancient Mortadella Butcher or something, something like this. Just like scads and scads of mortadella, and like even fake street foods that aren't real street foods going in there, like these like fried um like fried ravioli or raviola or something like that, or fried tortillas, something like this there, and just like unconscionably large amounts of mortadella, and she's like, what the hell? Yeah, well, get used to it. Yeah.
Get used to it. Yeah. You know what I mean? I remember back when I was in Rome a couple years ago, they were uh putting out, you know, bundles of dried pasta on the windows, like it was fresh pasta with like the semolina all around it and everything, a little flour mix in there for good measure just to dupe all the idiots. Yeah.
That's crazy. That's uh that's a good business model, dupe the idiots. Yeah. Well, you know, it it there's not an incentive to do a good job when no one's ever gonna come back, right? That was the one thing from Freakonomics.
Yeah. The one thing in free freak economics that I mean, and I know a lot of people have problems with that with the book and with their whole like modus operandi. But um, the one thing that stuck with me, they were like, you know why all the restaurants in Times Square are bad? Is because why would they be good? There's not even one marginal reason for them to be better because you're there, you're gonna go anyway.
It's like, why, I don't know, I haven't been in years, but why was for at least 40 years Tavern on a green famously the worst food and service on earth, and yet constantly packed. It's because they did not need to give you good food and or service, and uh there is no reason to do so, right? In fact, you're disincentivized because you're making less money by worrying about making the food and the service good. And so you're actually doing uh your investors a disservice by making it a high quality product. So uh, yeah, why?
Why make it good? Yeah, that's yeah, crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And this is why we're not rich.
This is why none of us are rich. Zing. Zing on myself. Uh so other than other than burnt and uh when you say good sashwana, how good? Can you get like the fresh stuff there?
Can you get like uh the fresh uh the fresh green? The fresh green, the fresh green uh Sichuan peppercorns are ridiculous. In like a sauce. You can? Yeah.
I don't even know where to buy those here. Is there a place you can buy those here, John? Not that I know of, but I definitely don't know. Oh god, I love those. Actually, I think you can get them, if I'm not mistaken, this place called the Mala Kitchen or Mala Market.
Mala Market, it's a website. I wonder if they sell the green ones. Fresh? But they mean I mean I've ordered their droids, so don't want drive. Don't want dry.
Yeah, they got green. I want to figure out a word for I want fresh green. I want fresh green rolling around in my sauce. So good. Um hey, you know what?
You know what's impossible to find when you need to fly to by the way, I'm flying to Korea. Anyone who's in Seoul, I think there's five spots left for my talk that's in. I don't even know how many days, because it's like I'm gonna be flying for 8,000 hours and then I land and I don't know how many days, but I'm gonna post it on social media uh in a little bit. Uh but um it's like uh uh what's it called? Uh I have like five spots left.
So I'll post it, I think and go in. Anyway, on the small on the small one. Um, but if anyone's in Seoul who's gonna listen to this, uh, so I'm like, they want me to use a rotor vap, right? So get this. So I'm like, what roto vap?
So Bukey is sponsoring it, so I finally get to use the state-of-the-art roto vap with the automatic distillation uh and all that. So next week when I'm back, because I'm only gone for a couple of days, I'll let you guys know how the new roto vap is and how it compares to the you know, good old days of uh of uh Nastasi and I in a trash room with a roto vap, uh like sitting there like dialing in numbers and spraying butter all over the outside of our equipment to seal it because it wasn't sealing properly. Remember that, Stas? Yep. Remember our boy uh so I've told a story before, I'll say it one more time.
So like we are so old school rotovap that we started, well, I started by building one, which sucked. I don't recommend you do that, and then bought an 80s version on uh on e on eBay, had to clean all of the poisonous carbon tetrachloride out of it. That's what it smelled like to me. And so that's what Nastasia and I used for years. Until one day, did you call them or did they cold call us?
Did you reach out, Stas, or did they cold call us? I reached out. Yeah. So this guy, uh, this is back, you know, I don't know, they don't do it anymore. Bukey US Robert Crotchfeldt came and gave us a rotovap the day before we went on Jimmy Fallon.
I had a brand new rotovap. That was like, wow. So anyway, so uh I'll work on them when I'm in uh Korea, but there ain't no way that Bukey Asia is gonna help out Bukey USA. You know what I mean? I don't have a lot of, don't have a lot of high high in the pot, high in the sky apple pie hopes.
But I'm gonna be using the same thing that like bars with shapes for a name uses. So I'm excited. Uh anyway, so I wanted to do the the old school habanero and grapefruit juice because that was delicious, right? Stas, even you like that one. Yeah.
Yeah. And uh and it's with their equipment, so if we mess up, I don't have to clean it. I can just throw it in the trash. Uh and I'll let anyone know if there's any uh glass licking that has to happen when it's over. I'll let I'll let everyone know, and then we can have that discussion again whether anyone over there has to lick glass.
You know I'll be the first one to do it. Yeah, you know I'll be the first one to do it. If for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, go back and stay that way. Or just stay that way. Stay in the dark.
You don't want to know, you don't want to hear it. Anyway, so uh guess what is hard to find? Guess what they don't have in Korea, right now? Red habanero peppers or Naga peppers. And guess what's hard to find here in New York City?
I just went to like three different shops, and uh I only have 200 grams of red right now. I need 600. What is wrong with people? What the heck is wrong with people? I don't know.
You can bring fresh peppers like that to Korea? No. Okay. No, you cannot. So what I have to do is I'm gonna have to pre-blend it with the liquor and put it in a bottle like it's a hot pepper sauce.
And I'm praying it comes in. It's not a fresh fruit andor vegetable. Yeah. You're not allowed to bring in liquid. You're there's no rule against liquids.
You're not allowed to bring in fresh fruits, vegetables, meats, produce of any kind into into Korea. Uh, but I have not seen any uh, you know, you can't bring Tabasco sauce in. I haven't seen that yet. You know what I mean? So, like, for for all anyone knows, this is gonna be a 20% ABV Tabasco sauce.
That's my that's my theory. And if it gets yanked, it gets yanked and I do something else. I mean, you know, uh, as uh as uh Karen Smith, uh Jeffrey Steingarden's uh wife said to me, uh no choice and no problem, right? You know what I mean? Yeah.
What am I gonna do about it? Fight the Korean government, go to jail in handcuffs over over a bunch of uh blended peppers? No, I will not. I won't. Anyway.
Uh all right. So uh Stas, what do you got? You got anything for us? No. Big lovely, nope.
Alright. How's LA anyway treating you? It's great. Thank you for the care package. Are you saying it?
Did Quinn send a care package and put my name on it? That's nice. No. Are you saying I didn't send a you saying I did Are you saying are you saying you wish there was a care package and there and there was not? Is that what you're saying?
No, I did get some food and I didn't know who it was from, so I thought it was you. No, I wish it was me. That would be nice. But you would if I sent a care package to anyone on my own, you should call the doctor and have them come pick me up. Because someone has replaced my head with somebody else's who has that ability to think uh think ahead and be nice.
But anyway, I'm hope you enjoyed whoever it was that sent it to. That was nice. Uh all right, and Quinn, I know you I know you got some stuff. Did you want to talk? Because it Brandon Bird wrote in a while ago, and I thought we dealt with it before on the last show about uh a base recipe, but we we didn't, or no.
Yeah, yeah. You we were sort of rushing through those at the end so I thought we could revisit it just in case. Uh just in case, just in case they didn't actually listen to the answer we had last year. Or is it that you want to talk about frozen desserts again? I'm just curious.
Also, we've been chicken with John. Yeah, Quinn. But we're we will, but what about as I'm checking with you? I thought maybe you could fold in the Brandenburg question and like finish it once and for all so it doesn't show up on my piece of paper again. And by the way, I'll say before you even answer that, I had someone come in to I had two people come into the bar.
I have a picture of them. The guy that sent the um I was name just popped out of my head again. Someone look it up and tell me, so I remember forever. The guy with the uh key lime pie idea, the acid just key lime pie idea. You want to hear Alexi.
Alex, you want to hear something crazy? Yes. He's never made one. Well, he comes up with the idea and doesn't make one. The hell is that?
And also, someone came in who asked a question about uh, I don't know, he said we never answered it, about uh something about using a Buchner funnel. And I was like, I'm pretty sure I said don't use a Buchner funnel for any reason ever, under any circumstances. Unless what you're doing is filtering a precipitate out of a bunch of acetone. In which case, go ahead. Um, all right, what do you what do you what do you got, Quinn?
Uh yeah, well, again, the question from Brandon was about like a simple recipe. Like the again, he uh mentioned he has access to uh liquid nitrogen. Um you can sort of take a lot of shortcuts related to texture because you're gonna get such rapid uh ice crystallization. But I mean, if I had simple recipes, I don't think I would have a career. So well, first of all, when you're using liquid nitrogen, because I've made liquid nitrogen ice cream so many times, like so many times, it's actually not as easy as you would think.
And the problem isn't what you would think it is if you haven't done it before. It's actually that you overfreeze it. And uh, so you know, it goes from being like like soft to like temper into chunks of hard stuff like mixed in with uh, you know, uh mixed in with like under stuff very, very quickly, uh like little hard rocks, because the like it'll look like as soon as your beater can't effectively mix it anymore, the localized areas of liquid nitrogen that are left will completely re like like pebbolize the stuff. And so you end up with a product that actually, most of the time, unless you're good at it, practice with it, needs to be tempered back. The other problem with it is is that most people make liquid nitrogen in a Kitchen aid, and do not attempt to make liquid nitrogen ice cream in a Kitchen Aid without the silicone coated spatula.
If you don't use the silicone coated spatula, you are in for a world of hurt because it's just gonna freeze to the outside of the bowl, and then that stuff's never gonna come off, and then get the get the spatula because that that then it acts a lot like uh an ice cream maker, you know, because uh any ice cream maker, the dasher is meant to scrape against. And that's actually my problem with the white uh, what's it called? White mountain. So, like I used to have a uh a $2 thrift store rival ice cream maker that was you know, a salt and ice, which to me is still superior method, salt and ice, and um even less you have $10,000 machine, salt and ice. It's either salt and ice or $10,000.
That's like those are the two. The cream the creamy's pretty good. I mean, that but that's not that's not a traditional ice cream maker. That's Paco style. Yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, with salt and ice, if you do a good job and you have a good machine, you can get a batch time of like nine minutes, something like this, without having it be too much of a problem. And so, you know, once you can they tell you not to do that because if you stop turning even for a second, you get a lot of freeze down on the side. But like, you know, I'm lunatic, so I'm gonna keep it going. So uh I had a rival that did a great job, and then I bought the White Mountain, which is you know the sinequa non of uh old school things, and it's got wooden dashers, wooden dashers, and they like I'm old timey, wooden dashers, oh old man, like what the hell?
Just use a real dasher. You know what I mean? Like use an effective modern scraping device, White Mountain, you know, like certain things can you're old timey enough. The fact that you have start that you're gonna use salt and ice and you're gonna crank it, you have become old-timey enough. You can upgrade to like, you know, a silicon-edged plastic dasher system.
I'm just saying, you know. Uh, so I never got the quality out of my White Mountain that I wanted. Anyway. Uh what else are you gonna? Oh, the other thing is you gotta remember, Brandon, Quinny Quinn makes most of his specs, and I don't know, I haven't looked at your calculator yet, but do you have a spec for uh do you have a spec for freezer temp, Paco Temp, and the Quinn style?
Quinn style means that you add so much uh uh sugar to it, not sweetness, but sugar solids to it to hold on, let me to make it so that the texture is dippable right out of a standard home fridge. So those are the two the three styles. I bring it down to two soils with some testing. So there's like what I call direct service, which you call quince oil, which is your serving directly out of the deep breeze, and then the creamy at least, when you process it, it brings it pretty much right to the tempered temperature after you process. Yeah.
So they're sort of tempered and using a blade soil machine is the same uh formula. Yeah. I would wonder whether or not an unstabilized quin style ice cream is gonna have a much, I bet I guarantee you it has a much higher meltdown than a because I mean I just I would assume that because your delta T is higher, right? So, you know, the melt rate of the melt rate of a of a product is proportional to how much solids, how many, how much solids are in it? So that is one thing that you know that affects the melt rate.
The other is the actual kind of what's called the diffusion constant, the m the how fast the molecules can move into solution as things melt. So that's why I think from all the research I've done, alcohol melts things so much faster at a given at a given uh melting temperature, right? Uh alcohol will melt faster, I think, than sugar, because uh alcohol is just a smaller, faster kind of diffusing molecule. So your your solution, your your gradient, your concentration gradient can can move faster. And the other thing, of course, is air.
Uh any air you add is gonna slow it down, fat also. And then uh last but not least, the stabilizer. So I think if you were to use maybe one of Quinn's Quinn style, un like with less stabilization, it might get a faster melt rate. Have you tested that yet? I mean, no, because I'm I want the stability not only for that melt rate sort of regulation.
Okay, they're willing it to be a little dent and stuff. So I haven't done much like low stabilized product. It's I mean it treat stabilization down a little bit if there's like incidental or solids like in the ingredients, but you know, I never completely eliminate them. Yeah. So I used to do like Briar style stabilizer cream, stabilizer-free, like filly ice cream.
And if you have a good machine and you're gonna eat it right away, that stuff's ridiculously good. But gotta eat it right away. You know what I mean? Like, gotta eat that right away. Can't overturn it or it goes butter.
It's just like super high fat, right out of the machine. Eat it now, go home. You know what I mean? Or you're probably already home if you're eating it. Uh yeah, one last thing.
Oh, yeah. You know, like uh what's interesting. I don't know whether people have thought about this too much, but melting too fast, bad, but also melting too slow, bad. If ice cream doesn't melt at all, people are like, what the hell? Usually it's in cheaper ice creams that are like very lightweight.
So you get something that's lightweight. When someone hands you a cone, by the way, you guys cones or cup people. Cup. Cup, I'm cup. Joe?
Cup, cup, stas. Yeah, cup. All right, Jack. You're the last cup. Ready?
Obnoxious answer. Waffle cone in cup. You know how they do that? They click put the cone on the cup. Then it's just a topping.
Then it's just a topping. Yeah. All right. Well. You know, then it's a clown hat for a clown eating it, is what it is.
That's fair. Yeah. But uh, I mean, I don't dislike the taste of a of a waffle cone. I'm not gonna say I dislike the taste of it. It's just I vastly prefer not having that crab drip all over my hands and just having a spoon.
Yeah, that's why I gotta put the cone in the bowl, you know? Yeah. I was at a place that uh their dipper cab uh two days ago I was in Williams and uh Massachusetts, and the place they were their cabinets were out of whack, and so they had to put all of their cones in cups. It was like and they still put the paper on the cone. Oh, that doesn't make sense.
That's big dummy time. Yeah, take the paper off the cone. If you're gonna serve it upside down, what do you mean? Chew on the paper? Okay, lift the cone, uh, lift the cup upside down.
Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. Absurd. Uh where we're talking about. Oh, yeah.
So, like the classic way of measuring meltdown on ice cream, swear to God, is they take a little mesh screen that has a certain size mesh, and then they make a standard hockey puck of ice cream. They temper it to a specific temperature, then they put said hockey puck on the screen at a specified temperature. I don't know what all the specifies are, but it's all standard. And then they just wait and they measure that screen over time to measure the drip. And so if it's so stabilized that even once it's melted, everything stays above the screen, it's considered very bad.
Very, very bad. Although that's the way we all always used to make our flaming ice creams, and uh all of our flaming ice creams were so highly stabilized that you could probably drop it off a building. Not really. As soon as you, you know, it's a fluid gel, so as soon as you scoop into it, it's theoretically a liquid, but man, you know, it'll hold its freaking shape uh on a on a wire mesh. Anyway, uh so you're still telling Brandon just go look up those two calculators?
Is that is that where we are, Quinn? Well, again, again, the problem is that even yeah, there's no simple recipes in my collection, I don't think. Well, we and what's simple? I mean, like simple is just you can buy the stuff, right? Well, I mean, don't I mean how many steps how many steps are your recipes?
Do you have to like, you know, do you have to like do a game of twister to do it, or is it just you have to buy some ingredients? There's there's different ways to look at simple, right? Most of the surveys or just blend. That's simple. Yeah, that's not even cooking.
You don't have to cook. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, we have to get people, okay. If you guys are gonna ask us questions like this, we need like here's the information I want to know.
What do you mean by simple? Right? Because to me, simple is I can walk into my cabinet, I have the stuff, I can blend it together, and I don't have to wait five days for this gel to set and this to bop but beep blah beep beep beep. There's no there's not a bunch of kickats of things that I have to like, you know, put together and do, right? That's simple.
Even if it has like a fairly large number of ingredients, or if it's like fairly calculated, right? Everything is simple as in the eye of the maker, you know what I mean? Yeah, true. Anywho, but also, Brandon, I'm sorry to say Quinn is, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've told me that you're not a fan of the of the and a lot of people aren't. I am because I'm lazy as hell.
The one, the base, the base that can you can mix stuff into. You know what I mean? Just like have a in my opinion, the absolute worst technique for making flavors. Okay, well, uh I mean, I have to say, like, if if you're living if you're living in the real life, and if you're living in the real life and you need to be able to make stuff on the fly, you know what's real handy to have around? A rich creme en glaze.
You know what I mean? Just like in the vac bag, have it done, rich creme en glaze. The sucker was made before. It's all good. And you know what?
It may not be the most of any particular flavor, but it's a good base. You know what I mean? And then you can have flavor to it. I know you hate it, but I'm just saying, in terms of simple land, that's simple. You know?
I forget what it was. Like 10A, I think it was 10 egg yolks. Shoot, how much do I have it? Because I tested your 10 egg yolks. Um actually sort of working here.
It's 10 egg yolks, 10 egg yolks, 500. This is how simple it is. I can still remember it all these years later. 10 egg yolks, 500 grams of uh 500 uh mils of cream, 500 mils milk, uh forget how much sugar, probably in the area of 200. And then forty something.
And then uh, and then uh, you know, vanilla if you want it. If you want to make your base vanilla flavored, I wouldn't, right? Because you can add vanilla later. And uh salt, you know, I would guess like a percent and a half or something of salt. And uh, yeah, 80, you drop it in the bat uh in the bath at 85, it uh it drops down, you sit at 82 for roughly 15 minutes.
You slap the hell out of it when it comes out to get rid of the curds, and uh it's a decent base. But Quinn hates it, so it's fine. It's fine. You can hate it. That's fine.
I'm just saying I've served many hundreds of people that with no regrets. It sounds great as a French style creme and glaze. You know, we're delicious. You know what's delicious? French style creme englaze.
It's just delicious. There's a reason there's a reason the flavor that I grew up loving, is French vanilla. You know why? Because it's delicious. You know what I mean?
And if you're gonna go stabilize uh stabilizer free, is there's no no better stabilizer free recipe, I think, than one with an egg custard recipe. Even you know who hates egg custards is uh Sam Mason. Of course, he also stabilized the hell out of them. He actually puts the egg whites, egg yolks in, but doesn't cook them. At least he used to.
Because he doesn't like the cooked egg flavor. But I'll say the if you vac it hard, if you just ziplock it, you get the cooked egg flavor. If you vacuum it, I've done these tests and I didn't think it was gonna be the case. If you if you vacuum it, which is hard because it wants to bubble up, which is why you shouldn't blend it too much or let it sit for a while before you vac it, um, it doesn't get the it doesn't get that sulfur flavor. Anyway, what are you gonna say, Quinn?
Okay, I just went back to my notes because I tested your cream glave with your umlair's onion flavor. So it's 170 grams of sugar. 170? Yeah, but the onions, well, I don't think the onions are gonna have that much sugar. No, I'm talking about just your base.
Oh, you tested just the base without the onions. I made your base and then I blended it with blending puree. Right, but you'd never spun the base on its own. No, right. So the onions have a lot of water in them, right?
So I mean, uh that that was something we we still time. I haven't had it in in a while. You really gotta cook the hell out of those onions, pressure cook them. You know what I mean? And then get rid of the water.
Anyway. Um, I haven't made that in so long. You know what I want to make again? The potato ice cream. I love this stretchy potato ice cream, but it only works LN and it only works day of.
It loses its stretch overnight. Weird, huh? Yeah. Whereas I think the German one might hold itself. I don't know.
It also I made it once with uh with like like local potatoes in Colombia and it didn't work. So like it use you know, russet Burbanks because I know they work. Everything has to be exactly as written in the recipe, or it's it's a finicky recipe. It's let me put it that way. It's finicky recipe.
Uh all right, John, what do you got? We uh what have you got this this past couple of weeks? It's been a long time, it's been like a month. It has. It has.
I have finally rolled out the new menu. Oh, yeah. She feels good to get done. So hook us up. Give us some.
Um so a water zooey um a la Gontoise. So there are two types of water zoo in Belgium is a chicken one, and then there's like a fresh water fish one that comes from Ghent, uh, which is the town my dad was from. So tell him what it is in general because it doesn't, it's not a word anyone knows. I'm getting there, I'm getting there. Um, so it's fish with a cream sauce, uh, leeks, carrots, potatoes.
Um isn't it served in a bowl, like soupish? Yeah. Yeah. So I have it like a nice little sauce at the bottom, leek infused cream with little saffron uh potatoes, carrots, and then a really nice piece of stripe ass on top, um, crispy skin. What do you say about leeks?
Leek infused cream. So what do you how do you how do you what was it? Oh, just uh blitz up the leeks in the robo coupe, sweat them down really well. Um, and then just steep it with some heavy cream for about an hour and strain it out, yeah. What do you do with the strained leeks?
I haven't thought of that, actually. Family, we got a family meal at it. Yeah. And if the stuff is still. It does.
You know what? You know what? Family. Not for blend that stuff, put in mashed potatoes. What I should just do is actually like I also have a leek stock to cook some leeks in.
Um and I made a soup with that. I should just mix it in there and bada bing bada boom. Yeah. Don't throw away all that. No, yeah, yeah, no.
I mean, I do creamy leak, actually. No, but creamy leek actually is really good. What if you how much flavor do they have left? Probably enough, right? Yeah, enough.
And maybe in with some spinach for family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Cook spinach.
Yeah, definitely looking for new things to make for family. I hate, hate making family meal. Why do you have to do it? Well, we split it up two days each over the course of the week. Isn't the point of it so that like the younger cooks get to test stuff out?
Why the hell the hell would you ever make it? Well, there's only one younger cook, Salvador, and he refuses to learn anything new as much as you push him. Sounds like he's not long for this job. He's he's a really he yeah, he's is and isn't. He started out, you know, as a porter and has kind of been working his way up.
Um so just like lacks the confidence in his palate to figure out what to put together. Okay. Um but so it's not from lack of desire, it's lack of confidence. Yes. Oh, so no, like every time he makes something he tries, but he makes the exact same thing every week.
And what is it? It's the Salvador special. It's uh we always have some panzu around, so it's chicken cooked in panzu and then whatever vegetable scraps he usually goes for the sweet potatoes, the carrots, the zucchini. Oh, I hate this, and then the onions panzu, and then white rice. Hey, here's your here's your sweet potato and zucchini scraps.
Go beat your head against a wall. You know what I mean? It's like, oh my god. So tired of it. Um the first time I'd be tired of it.
We try to get him to do other things, but yeah, he just uh it doesn't click. Try and show him new techniques, thing, you know, things to do, and it just doesn't every time I try to I like sweet potatoes. Every time I try to love them, I just can't. Yeah. And Thanksgiving.
Yes. Well, as a side dish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um Stas, don't you also not love the sweet potato?
No, I I'm fine with it. Fine with it. How do you like it though? Sweet potato? Yeah, do you like the whole one where they give you the whole one in aluminum foil?
I like it with marshmallows and pineapple. So Thanksgiving style. Yeah. But not like it's just a whole thing to like slug a whole through a whole one. No, no, no.
No. I mean, I like people love that though. Yeah. People were like, ooh, I want to snarf my way through an entire sweet potato. Like, yeah, we do.
Yeah? Yeah, we we yeah, skin first, the best part. Really? Mm-hmm. Do you have to scrub the hell out of it or no?
Breakfast. Yeah. Actually, it's breakfast, yeah. We we eat it in for breakfast a lot. Cold or hot?
Uh we actually prefer it cold. So you cook it the night before? Yep. Hmm. Okay.
Sometimes a little lime on it, sometimes not. Lime. That would be a welcome uh addition, I think. Yeah. Do you do do you wrap it in foil and then poke it so that it gets those little sugar marks on the outside of the aluminum foil?
Um, no, we don't poke it. We do wrap it and we I blast the hell out of it from the night before, and then it's just pretty much on the on the counter. Next morning we it's full on breakfast. I think my problem is is that every time I have one, I'm just like, I wish you were a potato. I wish you were a potato.
You know what I mean? I think that's what it is. You know? Yeah. It's like that's say when I was in Alaska, like there's this place they made this um, it was called Grizzles or something like that.
It was an outdoor place, and they and the their food of note was caribou, no, yeah, caribou hot dogs. Everyone has reindeer and caribou hot dogs there, but if you actually go to the store where they sell them, it's like one percent reindeer. You know what I mean? It's like beef, pork, reindeer. You know what I mean?
Like a little bit of reindeer. Because like I guess they only get to slaughter like one or two reindeer, and so then they have to mix that in. They call it remaining. So it's it's it's kind of a lie. It's kind of a lie.
Uh but they make these things called gutter tots, which are tater tots and fried cheese curds with like their sauce, which is a good combo. And like, and like you know, peppers and all that nonsense. Uh but they also mix sweet potato tots in, and so for like three days, they were out of they were out of tater tots, and they only had the sweet potato tots. And I'm like, we but got it once because we were so hungry and there wasn't a lot around. Plowing through an entire bowl of only sweet potato tots is just a sad, sad, sad situation.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, this texture. Oh, you know what I mean?
No, no good. Yeah. No good. No good. I mean, like, don't mess with a tater tot.
You know, like, like, who invented those things? Orida or I used to know. I actually looked this up. Was it Orita or was it Simplot? Or is Simplot and Arita the same?
And then the other one. But like, don't mess with a tot. Yeah, don't mess with invented by Nephee Grigg of Orita. Okay. Alright.
Yeah. I mean, it's a genius thing. I got these potato scraps. I gotta do something with them. I think there's a fire in our building.
I'm not worried about it. You guys worried about it? No. There's some sort of alarm going off in our building. Doors right there.
We'll be good. Covered and smothered. Exactly. Hey, do you want to guys want to know something interesting? If anyone can hear this who has a solution for this problem, Joe Hazen has a studio called New Stand Studios here in Rockefeller Center.
And here's the we have an interesting problem. The problem is this. He can't do anything to the three and a half to four walls we have in here. And there's a big window, which means he can't sound isolate. And what we need is someone who is in the insulated glass business who wants to sponsor New Stand Studios and put uh an insulated piece of glass on the outside, which we are allowed to do.
Double pane. Yeah. With gas in between. Yeah. So and angled.
And you you'll you'll you'll rep them out, right? Of course I will. Yeah. And it's not just us, uh, cherry bomb, a bunch of like Martha Stewart comes on this piece. A lot of people come use the studio and yeah, I'm having a hard time keeping noise out.
Yeah. And you know, why don't well there's gotta be someone that listens to one of these podcasts that is like, you know what I do for a living? I make double insulated glass with the gas in between. That's a good sound barrier. I'm gonna I'm gonna work with these people, right?
Someone. I love it. Thank you, please. Yeah. Uh all right.
Um Justin uh Cheryl writes in Dave mentioned making shag bark syrup, shag bar kickery syrup some time ago. What is slash was the ratio of bark to I assume simple syrup? I have only a small amount of bark on hand, so I can't experiment too much. Well, uh someone who's got a calculator. Anyone got a calculator?
I am a calculator. All right. Uh uh, so the number is uh see uh three hundred and let's do it the other way around. 1600 plus 700 is 2300. All right, uh divide by uh 378.
That one I actually need to do our calculator. 378? Yeah. Remember when I said calculator? Yeah.
Well, it's pretty sure. Uh 0.68, etc. Zero. Okay, so about about 0.7. Let's call it 0.7, right?
Oh, 0.7. 0.07. 0.6. 0.68. What?
No. 20. Oh, sorry. I missed a zero. Okay.
Okay. 6.8. Six point eight. Six point eight. All right.
So six point eight. Right. So six. So six point, like six point eight or we call it seven times call it six point eight times uh whatever the bark weight is, add like six point eight times as w much water to it. Stick it in a vacuum machine if you have one and suck a vacuum on it a couple of times.
And the purpose of the vacuum is to push the water into the pores of the bark. First, rinse the bark. Get rid of any mold or lichen on the outside of the bark that might add a flavor. I don't think it's going to be toxic. By the way, for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, Shag Bark Hickory is uh it's a tree that makes hickory nut delicious delicious nuts, but very hard to shell.
Uh, which is why they're not commercial. They're very closely related to but taste better then a pecan. And uh the bark comes in these like it grows on these in these strips that can be torn off of the tree without damaging it. So you don't rip all of it off, but you just go on the tree and you pull off the outer pieces, go around the tree, harvest it from a couple other trees, make sure you're not in my neighborhood, make sure that you're not also grabbing poison ivy, because a lot of times poison ivy will be going up to hickory trees, and um pull it off, and that's it. You don't have to harm the tree, you don't have to tap the tree.
Uh, you know, you can do it any time of year because you're not it's not the bark's not fresh, it's not the inner bark, it's the outer bark. Rinse off any lichen or uh, you know, mold, dirt, whatnot. And then uh I break it into tiny pieces, and then I vacuum it in the water to infuse the water directly into the pore so that when you do the next step, it is good. Then you boil it with the bark uh until it's about point six one five times its original volume, uh, and then uh pull it out and then add uh add an equal weight of sugar to make it into into simple syrup, and that's what I do. Right?
Right. Uh okay. Um Alexander writes in uh hello everyone. I we look so Alexander asked about black garlic. Uh and I have to say I've been running around, but I'm gonna I'm gonna read the I'm gonna read this anyway.
I've always been under the belief that it is a slow myard reaction, that the whole fermentation thing is just a translation error between some uh languages and English. Our head chef, however, disagrees, which led me to sit down and do some reading. I came over an article in which uh you don't have full access. By the way, Alexander, whenever you need full access, go to Sci Hub. Just search Sci Hub and they dance around a lot.
So Science Direct, and I believe you quoted Science Direct Direct. Every once in a while, Science Direct will take a whole bunch of their journals and for a week or two they'll be off Sci-Hub, and then Sci-Hub will steal access to it again. So, you know, keep checking. Not that I'm telling people to steal, you know, whatever. Anyway, um, or call a friend who at a at a university.
Um so the argument is is that what happens with black garlic, which is where you put, you know, garlic, you wrap it, you keep it humid, and then you heat it up to relatively hot temperature. I forget what the number is, but hot enough that you know minimum 60. Yeah. Hot enough so that you're not really growing uh, you know, a culture, let's say, right? And then it turns black over time and sweet and the flavor, you know, transmogrifies into something delicious and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And uh, you know, Johnny Hunter, I think was one of the early people who did like, you know, quick versions of it, because it used to be weeks and weeks and weeks at a lower temperature, and he's done quicker and quicker versions with rice cookers, with uh hot boxes and all that other stuff out of Mad Town. Anyway, so a lot for a long time it was thought of uh people would say it was like a fermentation process because they wanted to lump it in with other actual fermentation processes like miso, right? Uh now it I don't think it is, right? And so like this, what this study is is saying it it lists all of the um all of the the flora, you know, the the microflora that are in uh black garlic both before, during and after, and it shows that in fact there is some growth of you know different cultures in the black garlic over time. However, as far as I can see, in my extremely cursory reading of this article, it doesn't say, oh yes, and the flavor contributions that those bacterial culture, those bacteria that are not dead, right, make is blop blop and blob.
And so I think the vast majority of anything that's going on in uh this situation is in fact uh, you know, just as you say, just the the the slow cooking of it, right? Um I could be wrong, I often am, but uh I would say that if there is an actual fermentation going on, it is a minor constituent of uh what's going on. I feel like Ariel's written about this. And what did she say? Uh let me look at Oscar.
And then uh, you know, someone uh someone uh Quinn, reach out and see whether she has uh an answer for for this. Yeah, on the mad feed, she's there in her book. Uh I don't know. What does she say in the mad feed about it. Let me see.
Uh ask the doctor about black garlic. Yeah. Uh Johnny Midwest uh asked about uh smokers. Did anyone, Quinn, get to us on Discord about smokers that they recommend for outdoors? Um I I have to double check the responses to the form.
I have the Web well, you know, it's at my mom's now in Connecticut, but when I was living in Connecticut, I was using the Weber Bullet smoker, and I liked that a lot. I mean, I used to have one of those way back in the old days, but I figured that there's a much higher technology one than that now. Maybe are they automatically controlled? The way it used to be, we used to just stick the little butt. Do you and do you use the electric burner or do you use your own burner?
We used to have the one where you could either fire up your own smoke and put the chunks on top, or you could stick that little electric doodad, you know, that little squirrel heater. And you put it down low and you put up like a water name thing in the middle, yeah. By the way, going back to your other thing, water zooy, what the heck kind of name is that? Oh, I don't know. It's fun to say though, isn't it?
I mean it is, but is it the kind of have people been ordering it? Because it's kind of confusing to say. I think some people stay away from words that freak them out. Yeah, that's something I've been debating about. I mean, it just went on the menu on Saturday, so we'll see.
I think it's also gonna take a lot to change people's mind to think of coming to temperance for food rather than just coming for like the wine bar. Yes. What would you think about calling it fish soup? Amazing. Susan's right to the point.
No, I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. Well, you you also launched uh bitter balling, right? I saw an instrument. That's true.
That's a bit going down really well. Also, doesn't sound like what it is. No, true. But yeah, also for the ball. Because it's because it could do it to people like, oh that's the it's bitter balls.
Yeah. People don't want bitter balls. No, they do. Do they? No, but I mean they've been ordering it, so yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Styles, what do you think? Fish soup or water zooy? Which would you go?
I think you styles might be a water zooy person. I don't know. No, fish soup. Fish soup. Remember the time, Styas, that we made uh that changwa, that Colombian milk soup, we made the fancy version.
And we kept on saying changwa, and people were like, what? We're like, changua. What? And then we're like, milk soup. And then they're like, all right.
I'll take them, I'll take the milk soup. All right. So that's one vote for the the Weber. Uh the recently, if you're gonna work inside, every a lot of people use the big chief and little chief because they're just so cheap, but they're not the best. You know what I mean?
Uh I've never had any experience with the uh I don't know whether you want one of the new fancy smokers. Like there's all these new fancy smokers. I've never used a uh Brunson, which he uses the pellets. Uh I think they're uh you know, some people hate on using pellets because they don't want anything pre-done for them, but then some people love the convenience of a pellet because it's just pellet go, pellet go, pellet go, and then you can put the smoke generator and you can make your own smoke box, and it's a lot easier with one of those things to do. If you're a cold smoke person, let's say, you can just put that through a you know, through a chilled flu, and you can get a much colder smoke.
You know what I'm saying? So I know some people love the I've I've had people make their own like Brunson versions that don't use pellets that use chips. So you can buy a uh lookup on McMaster Car cartridge heater, and because that's basically what a lot of those things are. So it's you shove a cartridge heater into uh a box and you just tune it by hand until it starts smoking, and then you put like chips, you know, soak chips over the cartridge heater, and you can do a DIY on on that as well. Uh, you know, the the fanciest one, uh, Chef Jeff Butler, he did a cartridge heater with a humidifier, and I think he put it through, I think he put it through a a jockey box that he could put ice into for doing dead cold smoke.
And once you do that, you can just, you know, port it into an old refrigerator and do whatever you want. So, you know, it goes anywhere from the lowest technology, which is like the the, you know, the little chief, big chief, which are just fundamentally, I think, just pieces of stamped aluminum with a heater in the bottom of them. Uh, and uh, you know, to the Weber bullet, which is still not really temperature controlled and it's only for hot smoking, to Brunson, I think they're called Brunson, and then like up from there, but I don't have a lot of current experience. I was hoping somebody on Discord would be. I would also recommend check out uh Meathead, AmazingRibs.com.
He has really good uh breakdowns of all these different types of things. I'm gonna help, I think, point you in the right direction. Yeah, we had him on the show, what, like four years ago? Five years ago. Maybe longer than that, but yeah.
Yeah. When his book came out. Um Rock Baker wrote in when can we expect the new edition to drop? Are you referring to the addition of the book or the addition of the spinzel or talking about the um secret intelligence? Yeah, sorry, Rock, I couldn't hear the question.
Uh Sean, Sean writes in and said, If I if I eat wheat, I sometimes, but not always experience a great deal of intestinal discomfort the next day. I've lived in Canada and the United States. Uh recently, I consumed a great deal of wheat for two weeks in London and Scotland with no appear uh apparent ill effects, including lots of the standard supermarket sandwiches on the go. This is made me wonder if my ailment may be limited to specific wheat varieties. Do you have any sense of how the wheat varieties that are primarily used, especially for mass market commodity crap, differ between the UK and North America?
And how would you set up a program of testing a variety of wheats at home to search for the evil ones? Well, that's an interesting question. Um, so Sean, straight up, maybe you're just allergic to the US and Canada. I'm kidding. Uh I don't I okay, I I know a lot of people talk about wheat varieties, especially older wheat varieties being significantly better for uh certain people's gut health than other varieties.
And they say a lot about how there's some sort of terrible thing about modern wheat. And I just don't believe most of it. Now, uh the vast majority of breads in, you know, bread flour, specifically bread flours, here are made with uh, you know, Canadian and like northern, like like North Dakota style uh hard wheats, right? Like hard winter bread wheat. Sorry, hard spring bread wheat.
So if you know very highly refined and it is very high protein, it works great for bread. So I would just buy uh now it's gonna be a little conflated. You can do it without a mill, you can do it in a vita prep. It's the loaves aren't gonna be the great. Uh actually, I have a gram recipe.
I have a gram bread recipe you can do. You can make crackers. Uh okay. But I would say in a vita prep, buy uh your a bog standard, like hard spring wheat, right? And use that mentally in place of um use that mentally in place of like standard bread here.
And then I would buy a middle of the road soft winter wheat, right? So the chorley wood process, which is the process by which Wonder Bread is made, was actually developed in England to make very fast loaves of bread using kind of lower protein English flowers. And the the English do import our stuff and Canada's stuff, but they also use some of their stuff in in the mix. So I would I would just try those two wheats. Then if you want a third wheat, get a soft uh get a soft uh winter, although it's not going to make great bread, and dope it.
You can dope it with with uh vital wheat gluten if you want, and just make a loaf or as Quinn says, a cracker or a porridge or a gruel with uh gruel, with uh with uh those three and see if you have a uh a uh a different because like you know, we have such good access to those, to that kind of like northern spring wheat, that's a possibility. Now, I don't know which varieties are super prevalent now, but you could also go back in time. If you get um an old uh wheat called Turkey uh Turkey Red, Turkey Red is actually the same wheat that was used in Hungary to make some of the best flowers in the world, you know, in the 1800s and the mid 1800s, back when Hungary was at the top of the uh of the flour mill game. Um, you know, I I wouldn't even know what a modern variety to test against is. Um, or you can just buy like a sack of King Arthur bread flour, because that's what that you know stuff is made out of, and then do that versus just buying a hard, uh hard uh uh uh hard winter wheat.
Yeah, usually clearly hard. Could they be sensitive to some sort of dope conditioner if they're only eating like prepared bread that they haven't made? Except for the UK is like I say, the godfather of messing with bread that way. So if they're having sandwiches in the UK, like I doubt it. In other words, like like usually like America is seen as the bad guy, but really it's England that ruined bread.
You know what I mean? Like what about all the like the niacin and the riboflavin that's added into the breads and stuff like that? Yeah, maybe. I would just be curious. I have the same problem.
Bread from scratch. Do they have the same effect? With like uh King Arthur, with like King Arthur or Hector's or something like this. An American wheat, yeah. And then you could actually buy on, you know, you could ha have someone ship you like standard uh bread flour from the UK, and you could see whether or not there is a difference there.
Might be the conditioners, but like I say, uh I don't know. I'm somewhat somewhat doubtful. Um like a lot of times, I just it's it it's only been a couple of hundred years, and while the the you know, the what's it called, the yields have gone way up on wheat, uh way up on wheat since the 1800s, way up. But uh, I just don't know that the varieties are that you know chemically or nutritionally different. I've never seen any real studies on it.
I've just heard people say, you know, they'll they'll say like red fife, ancient my butt, red fife is like maybe a couple hundred years old. You know what I mean? Uh from Canada, and it can be either winter or spring, and so it's gonna be different depending on on how it's grown, although I couldn't get that much of a taste difference because I've tried them both in flowers, but it's like, you know, it's not like, you know, the wheat of our ancestors, you know what I mean? It's still like a relatively tweaked out domesticated wheat. We domesticated this stuff thousands of years ago.
You know what I mean? Anyway, that's let me know though, because I'm highly interested. And like I said, I'm usually wrong about everything. Uh Maddie writes in, I'm a regular bread slash pizza baker, uh, and I've been making sourdough in in uh semi scare quotes. Would you say a single quote is like a semi-scare, like a little bit of afraid of a single?
And like super afraid of a double? Sure. Yeah. Uh sourdough roti for a new menu at work. Okay, using atta 75% uh 75% hydration on atta flour and 20% starter.
I've been curious, what makes flat breads like pita slash uh roti puff up and inflate? Ooh, this is a good question. Uh we are doing a leavened dough for roti, which is not traditional. Uh so I know it isn't fermentation bubbles uh that normally makes it puff. And there seems to be something to the rolling smashing down of the bread.
I've tried stretching like a pizza, thinking instinctively that would preserve bubbles, but it doesn't puff right. I've also tried rolling out ahead of time, uh, but those also fail to inflate. It seems important they get rolled out soon before cooking. Does anyone know the science that causes inflated uh pockets in these breads? Yes, Maddie.
Um here's what's going on. When you are making a leavened bread, or even like a crumpet style bread, right? Or even a flat pancake style bread, like in Jira, right? The bubbles that are formed when you're putting it on the pan, you get those crumpity or injera or or in regular bread, those big bubbles. All of those bubbles are formed during the mixing, right?
And then just increased during the leavening section, right? And so that's why, you know, the actual folding over of the bread, if you're doing like a no-need recipe, that that fold that you do, and then you kind of, you know, mid or two thirds of the way through and you fold it makes a difference because you're including more air bubbles in and smacking it down. When you're puffing something, right, you're not using inflated bubbles. You're using this bubbles that have already started, and you're trying to make one giant bubble. And so what you need is a high hydration dough.
It's important that you have a high hydration dough that is machinable, right? Which is why you don't want to roll it out too far in advance because you don't want it to dry out. You don't want the inside to dry out, but you need to dry out the outside. You need to have a wet inside with a dry outside. That's why.
Normally, when you're doing it, it's one side down, right? Cook it until it sets, flip it, cook the other side till it sets, flip again, put over fire. It sometimes starts puffing on the first flip. But as soon as it sets, then you can heat the middle, which is still liquid, up uh you still has, you know, not set yet, up to boiling, create that steam bubble, and it separates the two cooked things. If, and this is why with pita, what typically what you'll do is you'll roll it out, you'll let it leaven a little bit, but you'll let the outsides dry a little bit, but not so that it gets cracked, right?
So then boom, it automatically has a way to hold the air in while it puffs. So it's all about high hydration dough, where you're not overcooking it so that there's still a layer in the middle that can puff up. So that's kind of the secret. High hydration, which is why you want whole wheat flour, right? In your that's why atta is good.
It's a very fine, so it's not gonna bond together into like little bricks. It's gonna, it needs to be very fine, finely, finely, finely milled flour. And the finely milled atta flour has extremely good uh good water holding capacity because of the of the brand in it and because of all of the damaged arch. That's why it's particularly good for this. But I don't know what uh adding bubbles in terms of sourdough is gonna do it.
I would just try making a standard first and get a thing, roll them out. Uh, there's a lot of good uh uh videos uh of people rolling them out. Uh I have gotten good, you know, or was at one point good at doing the the magical rolling technique where it automatically rolls itself, but I found it really doesn't matter as long as you don't tear it. And the temperatures are critical. So just practicing you get the temperatures right.
Uh, you know, the first time you do it, 10% will puff. The second time, 30%, then 50%, then 60%, then 80%. I was at a good 80%, 85%, 90% full puff, and I'd have to start from zero again because people who do this for a living make it every day. Anyway, let me know what's going on. Uh cooking issues.
Timestamps may be off due to dynamic ad insertion.