Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rugger Fellow Center in New York City News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John City Crossman. How are you doing, John? Doing great.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah. All right. Missed a couple of weeks there.
Yeah, no, it's true. Yeah. Got Joe rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you doing?
Good to see you. Doing well, doing well. It's kind of looks cool. I used to have this rule like the worse I feel, the brighter the colors I would wear so that people wouldn't look at me. Anyway, uh got uh over there on the West Coast in her new official homeland, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
Hi. How are you doing? Yeah, you're no longer you no longer have ties to our coast at all. No, I know. I know.
You lit all you lit all that crap on fire. How did your uh well, we could talk about your garage sale later. Also over on that coast, we got uh Miss Year La Molecules. Jack, how you doing? Yup, I'm good.
How are you? Good. And holding down the upper left corner, Quinn. What's up? Okay, good.
Uh and we do not have, unfortunately, our special guest for today, Osai Endolin. Uh she's under the weather. So hopefully we'll reschedule and come back. And is it next week? Next week is our Thanksgiving week.
So if any of you guys have any Thanksgiving questions and don't want to listen to our Stas, how many back back episodes do we have? A billion? Or it's like five billion. Thanksgiving. Yeah, Thanksgiving episodes we've had probably 13 or 14.
How long have we been doing this crap? I believe it's 14 years. Yeah, 2020 was that. Oh my god, what a bad idea. Anyway, so if you don't feel like going back and listening to all 14 years of Thanksgiving's, you can ask us your Thanksgiving emergency related uh things.
But unless you're a Patreon listener, it's gonna be too late because you won't be able to listen to it until Friday after Thanksgiving's already over. So, John, you want to tell them how they can become a member of Patreon? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh there's a couple different membership levels, perks with all the different um levels, uh access to Patreon discounts with Kitchen Arts and Letters and other and uh Groven Vine and Glassvin and all these other great companies. Um check it out.
Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. And uh if you are a Patreon listener, we're uh you can call in live to a 917-410-1507. That's 917 410 1507. And then in this week before Thanksgiving, let me just say, even if you are a Patreon listener and you're listening and it's Tuesday next week, it is too late to start thawing your turkey.
Let me just tell you this right now. It is too late unless you're using a very tiny turkey, or unless you really like uh fuddling around with uh frozen turkey. How much do you hate fussing around with a frozen turkey, John? I have managed to always plan accordingly, so I've never had to deal with it. Yeah, you can force okay, you can force thaw a turkey in running water.
It's not ideal. You know what I mean? And you can speed the thaw a little bit by putting into a brine, right? But uh classic first time uh cooking Thanksgiving error is to buy a frozen turkey and then be like, it's gonna thaw in like a couple of hours, like a chicken, right? Nope.
Nope. Uh well, you know, actually, previous guest on the show, Chris Young, didn't make a video about how to cook for frozen and actually recommend it. Yeah. Interesting to check out. I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't believe that even for a second.
I think maybe he can do it. I think it's gonna cause a lot of lots of problems. Like, unless you have really good temperature control, I'm saying that the average person isn't gonna go through the steps required to get to temperature control required to cook from frozen. And I'll also say this there is a was back in the beginnings of low temperature cooking. There was a huge movement to sear meat from frozen and then cook it from frozen.
The theory being that you could sear the outside of the meat quite a bit, right? Without cooking the center at all, at all. And then you would cook it through. However, after numerous side-by-side taste tests of both cooking styles where it was frozen and where it wasn't frozen, every single person we gave it to was like, yeah, I kind of prefer the one that was done more traditionally. So I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't believe it, but I'm willing to have a side-by-side.
I'm willing to have this eye by side if someone's gonna cook for me. I'm not willing to do the side by side because I don't have the space for two turkeys, uh, or enough people to eat them all. But uh, that's my that's my theory on that. And by the way, theory born of uh lots of experimentation over many years. But okay.
Now, uh, what do you guys got going this week? Anything uh this week of last past week. Stas, how'd your uh like Nastasia sold all of her goods that she had in Stamford? Or that that she could did the sale go well? Did people buy?
No, people came in, they wanted to take photos of the house, they wanted to take photos of the view, and then the sad part is that they look at your stuff and they're like judging your tastes based on your stuff, and then you're like, I want ten dollars for this thing, and they're like, How about 50 cents? And it actually costs you like a hundred, so you just but you don't want to move it yourself. It's a sad process. I hated it. I don't think it's not your style of thing because you don't really like to you don't really you're not really like someone who likes to talk to people you don't know or haggle with them right.
I kinda I kinda wish I was there because if I had been there I would have helped you out a little bit like you would have been holding this thing up. They would have said they would have said can I have this for fifty cents I just would have taken it from their hands and thrown it in the ocean I know and never stuff. I mean not stuff that you know it's like when we did our sale did we talk about this when we did our sale? No did we mention it? I don't remember.
No I don't even mention it. Yeah yeah well I hope I hope the people I hope the patrons that have our have formerly our stuff are enjoying the now their stuff right that's what I hope. Yeah you don't want things to get wasted like in fact I like tend to I tend to buy things like sometimes I want things new because I don't trust what people have done to them but I buy use most of the time stuff like equipment that like still has a lot of life in it because I feel bad like like creating more garbage. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Yeah. Um what how was the move otherwise okay it was okay yeah it was okay just sad. Yeah you have any uh sad and happy at the same time right you're like crap on this coast boom how big of a how big of a like a uh a toot did you give did you like go in all the cushions that were left in your apartment and be like toot away and then leave? That's what Nastasian. No, I did.
I did leave some. Oh, mean or okay notes. No, like warnings, you know. Uh, yeah. Beware the landlord.
Anyway. Uh have you had any uh good food incidents over the past week? Um, I know my man Jack probably went to a decent restaurant. What's up? Uh I didn't, but I went to St.
Augustine in Florida to see some family, and uh had some really good blackened gator tail. So that's always nice. Okay, a couple of questions here. I've never been to St. Augustine, but like what portion of it is the oldest city?
Is that is like one building left? Is there like one stone? Like what whatever it's like a little historic tourist district with all the old buildings and stuff. It's you know, it's a nice little area, but it's very like uh I don't know, like what you would imagine like uh the French or Spanish section of Epcot would look like. You know what I mean?
Oh and what kind of chotch geese do they sell there? I mean the standard stuff. Uh honestly, uh, not political show. A lot of MAGA stuff though. Yeah, well, Florida, hello.
Uh I uh I used to love first of all, I went through various stages of my life. When I was a kid, loved chotchkis. Loved them. You know what I mean? Yeah.
I mean, like, find me show me a kid that doesn't like like a little garbage tchotchke to put in their room and throw away 20 years later. Find me a kid. You know what I mean? And then my parents would never buy that crap. That's what grandparents were for.
They would buy you the stupid chotch key, and you'd end up coming home with like uh uh they used to take animals in like when they were I don't know whether they killed them or waited for I guess they killed them, and then they would set them in resin. Have you seen these? Like turtles like set in resin. Yeah, puffer fish set in resin. Yeah.
And I would show up at home with those, and my mom's like, what the hell? What are we gonna do with this? I'm like, I'm gonna put it in my room in 20 years, you know, I can tell you not to throw it out, and then in thirty years you can throw it out without telling me. That's basically life. Anyway, I went from that stage to liking to go to Tchotchki shops to see the ridiculous things.
So now I don't even I can't even walk into those places anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah. There was a woolly mammoth tusk on sale for sixty thousand dollars. And and what was the provenance of said tusk?
How can you how can they like do you are you trusting are you trusting some Saint Augustine Tchotchke dealer with free game selling you a sixty thousand dollar and and what is the market? What is the market for me being in a tourist trap, walking in and being like, you know what? That sold. Yeah. Sold.
Yeah, YOLO, YOLO. I'm grabbing it. No, I know. I agree. It was confid and then you can microplane it over risotto as like uh like like a as a supplement.
I mean, that'll be the money, right? Anyway. I used to when I was a kid, before I knew it was a terrible idea, used to buy ivory quite a bit, like not fresh ivory, please. No, no calls. You know what I mean?
I used to do scrimshaw as a kid, and uh ivory dust smells kind of like burning hair. It's not the best for your lungs. Anyway. That was a weird tangent. Uh what about what about uh Quinn or John?
What do you guys got? I got something. Uh oh, okay. What do you got? Uh we broke down a duck this weekend.
So we did uh duck wings, uh steered duck breast with a chanterelle, crispy clay pot rice, and I did a duck leg, uh adoba like Filipino style. Pretty good. Now, uh, what kind of clay pot do you have? My dad buys whatever's on Facebook marketplace. I don't know what that means.
Like, are we talking like a Chinese clay pot? Are we talking like a Colombian clay pot? Are we talking about looks like a Chinese style, yeah? I've recently uh so it's it, you know what's interesting about uh you're familiar with high fire versus low fire ceramics. So I mean high sure.
Yeah, right. And glaze versus not. So I recently one of the issues with a lot of the higher fire ceramics actually, even though they're all oven proof and they're non a lot of them are non-porous because they're fully vitrified and a lot of them are glazed. So for instance, my bean pot, right? If something says it's stoneware, right, or ironware, those are high fired, right?
And they're typically harder, they're less liable to chip, uh, typically less porous. Um, but in general, you don't put them over direct flame, right? Whereas some of the lower fired pots can be put over direct flame. And so I picked up uh you ever guys ever cooked one of these lachamba pots? You familiar?
So in Colombia, they have a a micaceous clay in this near this village in the village, I believe is called La Chamba. And uh it's kind of like you can only call it La Chamba if it's from there, and the clay deposits that are near this river are owned by the town. So only townsfolk can make it, right? You can't have like an outside person come in, buy all the clay, and manufacture it in New Jersey and sell it as Lachamba. It's all comes from La Chamba.
Uh none of it's thrown on a wheel, it's all molded, but it goes through this in, you know, everyone has their own job. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I I make the pot blanks, I do the handles. It's kind of one of those things. But uh what they do after they uh after they, you know, rough form the pot is one of the person's jobs is to sit there with a smooth agate stone that looks like you know, like you've rock tumbled it, and sit there and hand polish the the leather hard implement until it's fundamentally glossy.
With and then it's low-fired, but because they rub it so much, it doesn't absorb a lot of liquid. It absorbs some liquid, but not a lot. So it's kind of in between being porous and not porous. But what's cool is you can put it directly on a fire. And they low fire them in these like kind of big uh, you know, like kind of outside kilns, and then after they're fired at a relatively low temperature, about 750 Celsius, for those of you that are ceramic heads, that's very low.
They then uh cover it uh so that oxygen can't get to it anyone, smoke it out, and it comes out black. So it looks really cool. And in fact, Rancho Gordo, Steve Sando, who's coming on uh in a couple of weeks, he is a big fan of LaCamba pots, especially for bean cooking. So maybe we can talk more about lachamba. So guys, get your lachamba questions in.
The only lachamba I have right now, I saw it when I was in Columbia, you know, every when I used to go to Columbia, but the only one I have is a four-quart, almost four-quart bean pot, so it can hold almost two quarts of two pounds of beans. For those of you that don't know, uh it's about two quarts to hold a pound of beans once they're once they're cooked in a in a bean pot. For those of you that are, I don't know, looking up bean pots, everyone should own a bean pot. I mean, I guess gonna go ahead and say that everyle clay pot or dinabe apparently some of the images he bought sorry he's it's a funny story. He's bought two separate clay pots from Facebook.
They were listed like weeks apart. But it's the same lady, and we suspect that she somehow has hundreds of these? You should just ask slowly dueling them out. You should just ask. Like that's what when someone has more than one thing, I'm like, how many you got?
You got the one I want? Yeah, but she wouldn't let them inside. Yeah, you don't have to let it inside. You can say, I'm looking for this. Do you have it?
You know what I mean? If you're looking for something different from what you've already have. They make really big lachamba pots. I kind of they make like lachamba griddles, like camals. I'm kind of interested in the idea of like a clay camal.
You know? But where would I use it? Nowhere. Nowhere. You know where you know where I can have big wood fires these days?
Oh wait, nowhere, because I don't have an outside anymore. July. Uh you and me both. You live in LA, you can pick wherever you want. No, no.
It's not like Jack and I don't have backyards. What? What about all these things? Every time I visited you, you have an outdoor space that you can F with. That's because you and I rent places that are like really nice.
Ah, I see. Yeah, those are Airbnb's. Do you do you are you renting a lean to? Like people live in you live in a house or you live in an apartment? Or do you live in an apartment that's part of the house?
It's like uh like a little, yeah. Yeah. It's like a little top of a wait, wait, what? Well, what's give me the scenario. How tall is your building?
How many floors? Uh it's it's like little bungalows. Okay. Well, you have a door to the outside then, do you not? Yeah.
Alright. You got an outside. All right. Uh yeah. Find me someone in New York who has a door that opens to the outside, and I'll show you a rich person.
You know what I mean? Like, we have doors that open onto hallways. That's how we roll. You know what I mean? Anyway.
Yeah. Yeah. You're familiar. You lived here for a long time. Anyway.
Imagine I have I used to grill in my hallway. Let me just put it to you this way. Like back when I lived in my illegal loft on 38th Street, like we had a fire, uh, like a fire stairwell that was internal to the building. And I used to go out there and grill, and it was fundamentally it was it was kind of outside, but it was like a fire stairwell. So it was like kind of in the hallway until I accidentally set off the fire alarm.
And the fire department had to run up 20 flights of stairs because they didn't want to take the elevator because they thought there might be a fire. And they weren't happy with me, like at all. I had a big grill too. I wasn't talking like you know those little smoky joes, those little miniature grills that everyone gets in New York to try to get away with with grilling on their fireplace. No, this was a giant char broiler, like could hold like 30 pounds of charcoal.
It was like, I was real grilling anyway. And uh they didn't get me in too much trouble because when they asked me, I think I said this on the air several times, but they said, uh, what the hell are you doing? You can't do that. And I go, tastes better. And then they left.
That was all that's all that happened to me. Weird. Uh I mean, it was, you know, a long time ago. Pre 9 11. Uh, okay.
Uh oh, what about you, John? You haven't weighed in. I was l well, air quote, lucky enough to have Saturday off. Uh we had to close the restaurant because there were some issues happening with the building. You want to say what they are?
Were, hopefully. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's an old building. There have been plumbing issues, or no backups or things like that, but just unpleasant odors. Um just like didn't, yeah. Didn't smell good.
Um someone was pooping through the ceiling. Yeah, no, it's it's way worse than that. How could it be worse than pooping through the ceiling? Uh it's we'll get into later. Now you have everyone's brain turning trying to figure out what could be worse than somebody pooping through the ceiling.
The point where all the sewage pipes from the building flow into the city's pipes are broken and not working the way they ought to be. Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's great.
Um, so yeah, whatever. Had Saturday night off. Uh went to demo and had an dry edge pork chop, which more restaurants need to be doing because a good pork chop is absolutely delicious. And so, like how do you like uh the inside rosy, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Um how offended are you by a little bit of extra pinkness around the bone when it goes rosy? Or do you think they should hit a little more on the bone so that that does so it doesn't get that little thing near the bone? Like a little more fire right right on the other side of the bone cooked for weight.
I guess that'd be nice, but I won't nitpick. Yeah. Um people freak the hell out. Yeah, no, I know. People get it oh, they really do.
Yeah, they do. Oh my god, it's not cooked. I'm like, oh Jesus. Yeah. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Is it cooked? Am I gonna get sick? You are gonna get sick and you're gonna die most likely, unless you get hit by a bus. Exactly.
At some point in your life. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, and then went to Contra.
Um, nice, yeah. Champagne boat. Okay, so uh, yeah, that's one thing we have in the last week. Shot boat is on the is on the menu. So, like uh years, years in the making.
So, like at one of at existing conditions, I was like, you know what? Uh everybody loves like a cheesy sushi boat. Like, like, you know, uh uh aside from the quality of the sushi, as long as the quality of the sushi is okay, you like it when it comes on like a big wooden boat. Yeah. Yeah.
Cause yeah. So I'm like, hey, what if you did a sushi boat, but with liquor with shots, shot boat. So then I bought a boat, I made, I made a like a deck. I made three decks actually that held shot glasses. It turned out that we don't end up using them.
It's better just to bury the shot glasses and ice. So the current, and for some reason we can never get it to work at XCON. I'm not gonna go into the politics of how XCON worked, but we can never get it to work at XCON. So at Contra, I'm like, we're gonna do the boat. So I rescued the boat out of storage before we divested ourselves of everything that we owned, and now we're doing it.
And the gimmick is that we line up uh five uh 16 shot glasses, right? And into those 16 shot glasses, we pour so two lines of seven and then two in the middle. We pour an entire bottle of champagne. Real champagne stars, by the way. Not no sparkling wine, real champagne.
Also, I went to your I went to your bar too. That's what my food thing is. You went, oh yeah, but I was there. Yeah, yeah. I remember that.
Yeah, but you probably won't talk about it because you're with people you won't talk about. We were there with Ariel, Ariel, you'll talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Um Stasia brings someone, goes like, don't talk about it.
Uh so anyway, so then after we empty the bottle of champagne into the uh into the shot glasses, and we were testing some of the stuff when you were there, we then put a bunch of cordials into it. So for about 55 mils of champagne, we put 6.6 mils of 50 bricks, 2% acid, all the cordials for this are 50 bricks, so 50% sugar by weight and 2% acid. You don't want six because it's too sour for the champagne. Champagne already brings its own acidity with it. So you fundamentally want this cordial to be slightly acidic, but not very much.
So and it's rainbow, Roigi Biv. So the red is strawberry, the O is orange is passion fruit, the yellow is saffron honey, the uh the G is kiwi green, uh B is uh B is orange because orange Curacao, it's blue. So we do a reduced orange cordial. Uh I, the indigo is some sort of shiso one, which is the only one I haven't actually tried because I that wasn't I was in Barcelona during the development of that one. And the last one's Concord Grape, everyone's favorite Concord grape, and then two planes so you can taste the champagne on its own.
A bargain at any price. So uh yeah, and then we're numbering them. So uh, you know, John got shot boat number two. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what we're up to now.
Yeah, so we give you the menu, we write your number on it. Just like uh La Tour d'Arjon, which I've never been to and probably will never go to, but uh when you get a pressed duck at La Tour d'Arjon, which I guess means the Silver Tower, or my money tower, Silver Tower. Either, I guess. But yeah, probably the Silver Tower fan, to guess. Yeah, but I prefer if you were gonna go to an American, like an English named restaurant, would you rather go to Money Tower or would you rather go to Silver Tower?
Silver Tower. Really? I think so. Money tower. Yeah.
Anyway, uh when you get a pressed duck there, they number it and they give you a certificate sell. We're stealing that idea from them. Amazing. Yeah. Uh all right.
Oh, and the other thing I did this week was I was in Barcelona hanging out with uh Harold McGee and Tracy Chang from uh Pagu in uh Boston. We went to uh a bunch of good uh restaurants, but I'll say this I ate so much ham. I ate an unconscionably large amount of uh Bayota fed uh Hamoni Berico. So you know, for those of you that you know aren't hip to ham or whatever, like there's various grades, but the highest grades of Spanish ham are made from 100% uh iberico pigs, the pata negra, right? So that's the breed, um, you know, which are known for producing great hams.
Not very good mothers. So here's I was at a farm actually uh near Manresa, and they were breeding uh 50% Durac, which is you know a breed that's common here in America, with 50% uh iberico pigs, and they say that you, you know, you get a lot more uh yield, like like bigger litters and like they're better mothers, so it's better kind of they're better producers, like the the durac iberico splits, which led me to believe hey, maybe you could do IVF for pigs. They do IVF for cows, and they're working on IVF for pigs, but why not do IVF with a hundred percent patinegra stock into something like a Durok, a very good mother, so that you could get much larger litters that were easier to wean because you have the genetics of the good mothering on the one, then you could you could jack the production of Pata Negra hands. But then above just the the the style of you know, the the genetics of the pig, you have the feeding regimen. So the the highest level is called Bayota, where they're fed on a farm for you know most of their life, and then for the last I forget however many months, they're turned loose and they eat acorns.
And by the way, I picked up an acorn off the ground where I was, even though it's not, it's not the same area, and it's the best tasting acorn I've ever picked up off the ground and eaten. And I've done that multiple times. It was the least astringent of all the acorns. Anyway, so whenever there was a lull, I would slink off by myself to buy uh ham. I bought ham in the airport.
I bought ham. Everywhere I could, I would go buy ham. I'll say this. You know how when you go to a Spanish place, they have the first of all, they don't slice it the way that we slice it here typically. They're slicing it long ways.
The ham is held like almost like you would cradle a baby and then you'd slice it, not like you know, obviously the baby analogy stops, but like you slice it along the grain to make these pieces, and they can choose different parts of the ham. Now, most places don't have infinity ham sitting out. They have like, you know, one to four ham sitting out there sliced. So what the meat tastes like is very dependent on where in the ham they are when they're slicing and where they're gonna take the pieces off of, as well as the skill of the slicer. So I never thought that I would be for buying pre-sliced ham.
But here's the great thing. When you go buy pre-sliced ham, so they have the places there and they're slicing it by hand, but I can go pick the style of ham that I like, pre-sliced, and then I can flip through it like a record store. Like you're at a vintage record store. I'm like flipping through, like, nope, nope, nope, nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not nope, nope, nope, not marbled enough. And then you find it and you can get exactly what you want.
You want it chewier, so you get ones that have like longer uh grain lines in it. You want like more fat, less fat, more marbling, more little crystals. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that for this style of ham that is sliced in a traditional way, sliced in the traditional direction, it is actually much better to buy it pre-packaged, unless you happen to be lucky and look at the ham that is on the counter and be like, oh yeah, that's what I want right now. Huh? In fact, in one of the places I went, I ate the second quality ham instead of the first quality ham because the position of cutting of the second quality ham was much higher than of the first quality ham.
All right, enough of it. Enough of ham. Enough of ham. Uh I had some good food too, though. I don't know.
I mean, what's to say it's food. Yeah. You know what I mean? Had woodcock. Now, Nastasia, the woodcock that they served was a lot less messy than the one where I was accidentally spitting BBs all over you at Hicks and you almost threw up at the middle of dinner.
Remember that? Yeah. So we were at Hicks and they served us like kind of like, you know, lightly cooked, like semi-rotten grouse and woodcock. And uh Spetchcock look woodcock? Not even just like whole like gooey and like with the babies in it.
And so like, you know, like you have to pick it up, and so like, you know, all this stuff was like sticking to your fingers and like it's a hor it's a horror show. It's uh it's like American horror show, but in England. And Stas was like, I'm not hungry anymore. You've ruined my appetite. That's pretty much what happened, right?
So gross. Yes. Yes. That was after a day at the Brogdale eating pears and oakwogs, I think. Yeah, so you were already your stomach was already primed.
Although we we we had a really good time there, unlike the time McGee and I went there and they, you know, k they kicked us out. Like we had a really good time. We ate some really, really good stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Um oh, by the way, the presentation I gave at Barcelona was about the ostensibly about texture. And uh in the couple of days going up to it, I was actually testing the viscosity of various uh various things. So, like, you know, for those of you that have heard me talk about this ad nauseum, you know, when you're gonna lower the alcohol or sugar in a beverage or both, you have to uh change the body of it because it loses its body. So I use either something called polydextrose, which uh, you know, is uh well, it's polymerized dextrose, but it's from being mildly sweet to non-sweet, depending on which one you get, but you can add it almost one-to-one for sugar to replace the body or glycerin. And I discovered that uh it's in my opinion, it's not the viscosity that does the that does the the magic work because I was testing viscosities on a on like a real you know, a viscometer and that that wasn't it wasn't enough.
Anyway, uh so that's what I was talking about uh over there. Uh you want to do this tasting or you want to do some questions? Both tasting questions, tasting first, tasting so I get it out of the way. Yeah, might as well. All right.
So for those of you that have ever listened to this show, whenever we go to Pennsylvania, I always talk about Lebanon Bologna, Lebanon Balognay, how much I love Lebanon Balogna, spelled Lebanon, the place in Pennsylvania and Bologna like bullet. So I happen to bring some with me from Dietrich's so that, you know, it's beef, by the way, uh, for those of you that are keeping track. But there, I never really knew how it was made. And I uh commend to all of you the article, Lebanon Bologna by S.A. Palumbo, J.L.
Smith, and S.A. Ackerman from the Eastern Regional Research Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, June 22nd, 1973, in which they give you an actual recipe. So any of you guys who want to make Levin and Baloney in a very traditional way uh can do it. And the the main things about it are that it is very sour and it is very firm. And the way it works is it is that they chop it coarse and they salt it.
And they let it age in a fridge for several days, salted. And the salt stops like spoilage garbage or bad odors from going on because they ran that test and allows like local uh flora to kind of incubate the meat. So that's a necessary step to get the um to get the pH to drop fast enough. So it's salted as it's uh uh you know as coarse chop, then ground, then smoked at about 35 C for a couple of days, right? And that's when the uh incubation takes place, the pH drops.
So uh and for some reason, like that order and then mellowing for a couple of days produces something that is acidic but not grainy. You know how most sausages, when they are this acid, go extremely grainy, which is gross, like I hate it when some when someone over ferments a sausage and it gets that granular texture, and you're like wah, yeah. You know what I mean? But this one, which is about three percent salt and uh salt added before the pH drop, then the pH drop uh after it's ground encased, makes a delicious firm. You like it?
Yeah. It's good, right? Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, but it's not too light. Now, listen, folks, there's a sweet Lebanon baloney out there where they jack it with so much sugar that you can't even recognize it anymore.
And it's not nearly as tart. I'd stay away from that. I would get the original, and in grams per kilogram meat, you're looking at 20 grams of glucose, 20 grams of sucrose, 2.5 grams of black pepper, 1.25 grams of nutmeg, 1.25 grams of allspice, and then 0.62 grams of each of the following red pepper, clove, cinnamon, ginger, mustard, and mace, uh in a 3% salt base. Remember, the salt goes on when it's coarsely cubed, the spices are added as it's ground, stuffed, and then smoked and aged. All right, and they're not aged that long.
You could do the whole thing inside of a week and a half. What? Dave and John, I have a question. What's up? Let's say you're having a dinner party with uh with uh uh discerning chef.
You need to get silverware. What color and type of generic silverware do you get to not piss anyone off? Silver colored. What do you mean? Yeah.
Like stainless steel. I stainless steel. Okay. I mean, because it's not it's not a fancy, it's not a fancy place. You don't need real silver, right?
I'm assuming you're gonna get stainless. It has to be heavy enough, heavy enough. Heavy, okay. Heavy. Okay.
Stainless steel heavy. I'm so heavy. Anyway, uh, so like the when you say discerning, you really mean pain in the behind, right? That's what you mean by discerning. No, Dave, I do not mean that at all.
Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. I do know. Uh-huh. Okay.
Because if they were discerning but not a pain in the butt, you wouldn't care what they thought. You would just provide something. And then they would look at it and they'd be like, oh, that sucks. And that's okay. You know what I mean?
Because you could you know what I'm saying? Like, there's a difference between discerning and, you know, getting all bent. You know what I'm saying? Big difference. Yeah.
Uh what were you thinking? Like, first of all, like, why you just tell them everyone has to eat with chopsticks? Call it a day. No. No.
Do you remember when we opened Booker and Dax and we tried to open it with just chopsticks, and within within 30 minutes, we realized that like there are many more people that can't use chopsticks than we thought. Why did we do that? Because we didn't want to wash silverware in the same way that you don't want to rent silverware or get it. Yeah. Hey, you know what?
How about this? How about this? Since you have hopefully a couple of days, why don't you troll thrift stores and get like a good mismatch set and then you can use it for again for other things. I am not doing that. I'm not doing that.
Hey man. You asked me what you what uh what I would do. Like uh like whenever you used to e when I f got my place in Connecticut, I I uh before Thanksgiving when I knew I was gonna get a huge thing, I would just troll thrift stores and get like high quality mismatch stuff for both plateware and service wear. And not and then make it a thing. No, if it were my cooking or you were doing it with me, it's great, but this is not that kind of thing.
Well, let me ask you this, uh seeing as how I know the answer, but no one knows what we're talking about. Uh if this is gonna be something you're gonna do again and again, you could either make it a recurring cost or you could pay for it once and be done. That's what I'm doing. I'm buying the silverware. Like, you know, I'm gonna like a uh a kitchen supply store, you know, in Glenville.
Uh buy the fake loggioles, everyone seems to think they're real. That's true. Buy the fake loggiole knives. Yeah. Everyone's like, ooh, loggioles is the best.
And I'm like, yeah, they're fake. You know what I mean? Like, they're not real. You know what I mean? You know the ones I'm talking about?
They have the little weird thumb rest on the top. Look up log spell spell scales. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And and no one's gonna and you can be like, what, they're real. What you don't believe me? And then the chef can't say anything.
Cause you got the lagiols. You know what I mean? Imprint on it. Uh I don't know whether they say loggiole or not. I don't know.
I mean, like, you know. Uh but the other thing about like uh I told I've said this on the air many times, but my wife was designing silverware, like they had a bunch of samples out, and the silverware expert from ARC International, who's there a big glass manufacturer, but they also did silverware, uh, he was going through and he picked it up, he's like, The design on this is nice, but it does not weigh enough. Nice silverware needs to have a certain weight to it or people think it's chintzy. And I was like, ooh, snap. You know, like unless you're camping, no one wants like a titanium, like, you know, you know, carbon fiber shafted, like super extra light fork.
They want that fork to feel like you could stab a Willy Mammoth. Get away with it to go back to Mammoth Tusks. Anyway. Uh hope hopefully that was a decent answer, Stas. Yeah, I think so.
Math Man writes in uh Dave, do you still recommend Egan Press series handbooks as great technical books on high fiber, oil, hydrocolloids, etc. Or are there newer options you would highlight more? Egan Press, by the way, is spelled E A G A N. And you know what? Like they have probably been superseded, but they're still really short.
If if if a chef was gonna come into me and say, I want like just like a really quick, what is a hydrocolloid? You know, what can I do? What's it for from a technical standpoint? I'd send them I I Egan Press, they're also really cheap. Uh, you know, I think they're still really cheap.
You used to be able to get them online, um for almost nothing. You could get a year's supply, get the PDS online. And I still go back to them every once in a while. They're pretty, I mean, uh the the the best ones are probably uh the one on hydrocolloids, the one on emulsifiers, the one, I mean, the wheat ones okay. They are, I think, put out by the American Association of Serial Chemists.
I don't think they've been updated. Uh non-nutritive sweeteners is kind of the one that's most out of date, but like most people I know aren't working with non-nutritive sweeteners anyway. The sugar one's okay, as my memory serves. I don't remember much about the fiber one. Um, it really depends on what you're looking to do, but yeah, it's I still think they're okay.
Um Oshkosh Bagash. Oh no. Apologies, Josh. Oshkosh Bajash is the uh is the person who asked the question. Ashkash Bajash.
Uh, you know, I used to go to Ashkosh all the time. What's there? The fly-in. They don't just make dungarees. It's uh the EAA, the Experimental Aircraft Association, has their yearly fly in there, and during the fly-in, it's the busiest airport in the world.
When I was a kid, I used to go there. Uh all right. Uh how does this work? And it's the uh no thumb, not with a B. Like N N-O-T-H-U-M.com's uh Pro Therm Continuous Fryer.
And uh the link that uh Oshkosh Bajash sent uh has a fryer that says that it uses uh less oil than uh regular continuous fryer. How does it work? Well, continuous frying in general uh is not anything that any of us normal folk are ever gonna have access to. Uh any commercial front so when something says it's kettle fried, right? What that means is is that it's batch fried.
So you're you basically, even though the equipment's much nicer, you're cooking it the way you would cook it at home. You're putting you have a vat of oil, you're putting the thing in, you're taking it out, and you're dumping it, and then after a while, you have to keep adding more oil. You might have to replace it, but the oil tends to degrade. In a continuous frying situation, what happens is product goes in, oil goes in, and you never change the oil. The ideal continuous frying scenario is such that the oil uptake is exactly equal to the oil degradation rate, so that the oil stays in perfect frying condition the entire time and it just keeps going.
Continuous frying. You never have to stop it to change the oil, right? Which is great. Um, and it's all about just getting the numbers right. Uh now, these folks uh claim to use one third less oil in their continuous frying uh scenario.
So what that tells me is that they have a much more efficient uh heat transfer mechanism. So they don't need as much oil. They have like a probably a better, I don't know, better heat exchanger or something like this. They can use a smaller quantity of oil uh and then just add it at uh a faster rate. Now, if they're claiming, which I didn't see in their thing, if they're claiming that they somehow get less oil absorption, that's not really a function of the fryer, that's a function of the food product they puts in, right?
So, I mean, that's fundamentally how continuous fryers work, um, you know, and why they're so amazing and why it's very difficult for us to achieve uh well, I mean, there's commercial frying at a restaurant, which is eight billion times better than you know, home frying because their fryers are better. And this is like yet another leap on top of that. You know what I mean? In terms of efficiently using oil. Yeah.
You know. Curious, is this not that dissimilar to that? Um, you remember those 70s um lamps, but the continuous oil those lamps that had the string that had the Oh, I love those things. Right. I I own, you know, I bought one of those things for my wife for Christmas.
Yeah, yeah. So those uh by the way, if you buy Continuous Oil. If you buy one of those, they they just keep pumping the oil up the top. So for those of you that don't know what we're talking about, so uh imagine, if you will, a lamp, and then uh the lamp comes down and there's like a little pagoda shape, and then underneath the pagoda shape is a statue. Usually a woman, maybe she's naked, maybe she's not.
Italian. Italian. Then underneath that is like almost like a basin, and then there's some fake plastic plants, right? And now, from the pagoda down to the basement are a uh the bait the basin are a bunch of like like fishing line monofilament that go down, like kind of crisscrossing going down in like a beautiful pattern. And what happens is beautiful, beautiful.
And in the in the bottom in the basin, you have oil, mineral oil, and there's a pump. And when you turn the lamp on, it pumps the mineral oil up to the top, and then it drips down the string in these like pearly drips. And then when the lights on, it's magic, it's magic. They'll drive oil woo and it goes real slow down the that's why you got plastic on the couch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, geez, Louise, they're so awesome. They are better for all of you fools who think that fiber optics is the best thing. This is so much better than the fiber optics, and you can buy them online for pretty cheap. Here's the thing they're clogged, but they probably work. You need to completely disassemble it.
You need to get all the old oil out, all of it out. And then you need to get mineral oil. And please, when you move the lamp, get the oil out before you move the lamp. Get the oil out before you move the lamp. And you know, make sure it stays clean.
But once I got that thing all polished up, I had to remake a portion of it. I had to cast a piece of like the like the weird little fake ornamentation around it, and I had to get all new plastic plants for mine. But you can totally buy one on eBay and fix it up, and oh my god, is it worth it? Continuous oil. Uh continuous oil, baby.
Because when you look at one of those things, when you're a kid, you're like, what the hell? How does it do that? You know, they had once, so the one that I got for my wife is the table one, but they also have the ones that you hang in the corner. You see me? Oh, yeah, oh yeah.
Of course. Yeah, yeah. I remember I remember going to El Dorado Furniture Place and putting my finger there and trying to get all the oil and getting yelled at. Oh, yeah, yeah. No one wants you to touch that thing.
Here's the other thing, people. If you live in a dusty house, the dust, the dust sticks to the to the strings. So you have to clean it all. You have to turn it off and clean the otherwise, no one wants to see like a dog hair sticking to an oil string, and then the oil coming down. So, like if you live in a dusty, a dusty joint, just be aware it takes a wipe down every once in a while.
You know what I mean? I mean, but like, oh my god, hours when you're a kid. Now, granted, we didn't have the internet or phones. You know what I mean? But when you were a kid, you're like, oh my god, someday, and then someday I did have one.
Crap on you, life. I did have one anyway. Your wife did. Yeah. Well, you know, I got to live in the house.
It's one of those gifts, it's a gift for the both of you. You played with it all day long. Yeah, I did. I sat there. You know what?
It's like honestly, you know, before dinner, you get yourself like I don't know, like a vermouth, flip on the oil lamp, just sit, read. Every once in a while, you look up, you're like, Yeah. Yeah. That's the light. So proud of it.
So proud of it. Yeah. I did that. Yeah. Look at this.
Look at this. Here I am. I'm content. Yeah. What else do you need?
Really? You got the vermouth, you got the book, you got the easy chair, and the lamp with the oil. Boom. Boom. That's it.
That's all you need. You know? Especially like, you know, like a like a like a fall or a spring day, you can have the window open. You know what I mean? A little breezy.
You know what I mean? That's it. That's too nice, Dave. That's too nice. Yeah.
Better than Instagram. Yeah. Don't deserve it. I don't deserve it anymore. That's why I don't have it anymore.
Jeez. Okay. Uh Maddie says, uh I've heard many times not to refrigerate bread, but rather to keep it at room temperature or freeze it. At home, I slice bed, freeze it, and then toast the slices that needed. Well, Maddie, this is also what I do.
That is exactly what I do. However, at the restaurant uh I work and bake bread for, we store bread wrapped in the walk-in, then slice during the prep day and toast before serving. Why is the advice always not to refrigerate bread? And what is the best way to keep bread, especially in my case for restaurant service, we bake uh we bake then serve the next day. Well, Maddie.
Uh toasting it will re-liven it for like a little bit. But if you were to let that bread cool and then try to eat it later, I think is when it's gonna be uh a real nightmare. The studies that I've read show that uh, you know, storing in the fridge, storing at four degrees Celsius. The the the real magic number where starch retro retrogradation happens the fastest is at 4C. Now, if you're having a if you have uh a lot of fat in the bread, uh, or you know, if it's not relying on like a cellular structure, so for instance, things like pies, cookies, um, you know, very short or fatty crusts like that, it's much less of an effect, but like you know standard breads will that are prone to staling will stale much faster at four and the the old uh theory being that um a even the freeze thaw cycle where it has to pass through four degrees Celsius and then back up on the thawing was equivalent to about a day a day's worth of sitting out on the counter in terms of staling so some breads don't ever go stale really so like panotone because of the high fat and whatnot can stay out forever and so I'm assuming it would also do well in the fridge for almost as long and again toasting makes it makes it um kind of ameliorates that but for me uh I tend to pull from a freezer and not do a real toast just like kind of a light like in the toaster or even in the uh APO the ANOVA precision oven in which case the bread comes back almost to where it was not the toasted and for that I think you would not be as good storing in the fridge.
Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah did I answer that question I hope. All right. Uh Biff Dit.
Following up on uh Jack's story, here you go Jack, about returning the drink that you didn't like. One, to this is to Jack and Nastasia. When you return the drink, did you confirm that you wouldn't be charged because that's another bag of worms and the thing I'm worried about and I hate is having to ask whether I'm gonna get charged or not and all that awkwardness. Now as the owner I would never think of charging you for a drink that I offered to take back and replace not even not once. It wouldn't even cross my mind and if I went to a place and they did that to me, I I would burn the restaurant down.
But uh, what did you do to the scallop? Oh my God. Well, I'm gonna l uh ask me again. First you answer the question. Oh, I would never I can't imagine.
I can't imagine them charging. I would be too shocked. And and if they brought the check and it was on, I would just say, hey, I think you made a mistake, you put this drink on then. No, I would just pay it. I would just pay it.
Huh. Yeah, but yeah, but but but in other words, like what Biff is saying is that it worries them so much the idea of there being this awkward moment, the same way that like you know, I am anytime I'm with someone and they order or the kettle, I'm like, Don't order it! Don't order it in case it's not right. I don't want to deal with it. You know what I mean?
Like, don't do it. Uh so it's like for Biff, like the awkwardness is so you did that that part didn't cross. And it is something we didn't discuss when we were discussing this thing, is this idea that maybe you would be charged and then have to either suck it up and grind your gears like Nastasia would do, or have the conversation, which is what Jack would do. Thoughts. Yeah, I I don't know.
I I like I said, I can't my brain can't even compute a situation where they would charge me. So that's never crossed my mind. Yeah, and the second part of the question is they're offering but the thing is I say I did I they say, How do you like your drink? And I it and Nastasia is encouraging me to say, I didn't like it. Right.
And then it's sort of on the bartender to say, Oh, I'm so sorry. Here, let me get you something else, right? So in that case, it's hard to imagine they would charge. Right, because if they were if they were gonna charge you, they'd be like, suck it, jerk. Yeah, oh maybe your next one will be better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um But it's a good point. And this is why like you know you train people. Hold on, we're not done with Biff's question. So you like you like you train your people to look at the drinks and see whether or not they're getting drunk in a timely fashion.
And if they're not, you have to decide, well, is this person just nursing their drink or do they hate the drink? Right. And that's the right, right. And so like, you know, but then you know, that's that's good service. So, you know, it's different if you have to tell them that you don't like the dr.
Oh, I don't like this. Then I guess you know, Biff's point is it could be more of a gray area because you don't know what their theory of operation is as a bar. Right. If if if if the minute somebody got like I would prefer it. If if the minute somebody got a drink, I'd be like, I don't like this.
And then I take it away from them so it's not like they're drinking it, right? I think that's the thing too, is the customer is knowing pretty much immediately that you don't like it and don't kind of mess around with it, like don't have half of it and then be like, oh, you know, I really don't like this tomorrow. That makes us all a lot more complicated. I think it's once you know you don't like it, commit to it and get something new. Yeah.
And so then uh Biff follows up, and then I'll tell the story, so Dave says, What uh Dave, what's the move here? Do you ask whether you'll be comped the bad drink or just risk getting charged for a bad drink? I never ask anyone whether I'm gonna get comped ever for anything. Ever. Not ever.
Never. No. Ever. And you never expect it going to a restaurant. Now, here's the thing.
If a restaurant offers to send you something, this has happened to friends of mine. If a restaurant offers to send you something, implying that it's comped and they don't, I hated it. I hated it. The chef would like to make you X, and you're like, okay, then the Dave would like to not pay for X. You know what I mean?
It's like you know what I'm saying? It's like that I know that's happened to a bunch of people. It's happened to me, where like, you know, they they say that they want. I'm not talking about places that know you. That's different.
You know what I mean? I'm talking about like you want to say where that is. Nope. Is it someone that we know? Who knows?
Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? But it's but but for those of you that own a place, that's real bad form. To imply to someone that they're gonna get something comped and then charge them for it, real bad form.
Uh don't do it. Uh it makes people hate you. Now, on to Nastasia's thing, uh speaking of uh so the kitchen at Contra sent out a scallop without asking me. All right. So don't I don't want to hear anyone saying, Don't you know Nastasia hates scallops because she's told you a million times Yes, I did not ask them to send anything out at all.
I was there talking to them. So they send out the scallop, and Nastasia's like, I don't, I you know, you know I don't like scallops. I believe you said I you know I don't like scallops. Then somebody else was there, was like, I don't eat scallops either. And then the other person had a problem, I think, with the garnish with the three people.
So I'm disgusted. Ariel was allergic. Oh, yeah. Ariel was allergic. You didn't like them, and the third person there was something else that they did what so like poster, whatever, crafing it up big time.
So, like, you know, so like literally at the bar, full, full bar, right? Full bar. I get so irritated, I reach across, like with jersey claw hand, I reach aclaw across on the plate, I fist the entire dish off the plate and shove it in one motion in my mouth with an intensely angry look on my face. That's pretty much what happened. Yeah.
That freaked out. I was like, no more scallop to worry about, people. Can we discuss something else? Other than the free thing that you're angry about. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, good. The bite was a little big. You know? They're big scallops, so with the frying and the shiso and all of the other uh garniture around it, I would say it's at least a two-bite problem in the real life.
Yep. You know what I mean? But you know, I didn't want to have a conversation about that. So I made it go away as fast as humanly possible. You know, put it in the face hole.
Yeah. There you go. It's the only, you know, face hole's the only thing you control. All right. Uh from Azu 14.
One of my favorite bars in Seattle. Used to have a Tom Yum mule on the menu, which has since fallen off as the prep was too much of a pain. I asked them for the spec, and they were able to provide me with some notes, namely that the aromatics are a 312 lemongrass Thai basil makrout lime leaf uh base. Uh any suggestions on the quantity of vodka. I thought the liquid intelligence lemongrass vodka spec might be a good start.
Cutting the lemongrass in half and replacing that uh other half with the Aramax. That should work. I mean, uh I might, I don't know, pre-slice the I mean that pre-slice the Thai basil roughly. I mean, it's I don't know how long it's gonna last. I mean, the real question on those with those folks is did they make a syrup?
Because a lot of people make like a basil syrup. Uh I'm pretty sure they probably made a syrup because infusions with basil, the basil's gonna be a little bit light and it'll be good, but it won't last uh that long. Um tangentially, if I were to do sous vide infusion instead of nitro, uh, would the quantities be the same? No. Uh rapid nitro takes a lot more aromatics than any other technique because you're extracting the high notes uh to the detriment of the of the lower notes, and so it requires a larger than normal amount.
So you you probably on the order of uh you know 75% of what you would use for rapid infusion or 60% of what you use for rapid infusion. But I I would guess they're probably making a syrup. What do you think, John? Yeah, I would think. Because that's you know, if you were gonna, I mean, I don't know.
I don't know, I don't know. You didn't say what restaurant it was, right? If they're using just a straight up ginger beer, they're probably not their mixer. They why would they do that though? Like if they're making all this other stuff, I doubt they're doing that.
I don't know anyone that does that. But he says he says it's it's aromatics in the vodka. Well, let me see. Uh I asked them for the spec, and they were able to buy me with notes, namely that the aromatics are lemongrass basil and macro lime. It doesn't actually say what the aromatics are into.
They're assuming it's the vodka. Yeah. Uh and if I was gonna do it, I would make my own ginger syrup, and I would add those aromatics to the syrup because it's in it's inherently more stable and it's a lot cheaper than pushing it into vodka, which then you can use it for a bunch of other things. But again, I don't know specifically what they're what they're doing. Uh Dave.
Yeah. I just got an alert that Sammy Hagar and Guy Fieri's tequila truck got hijacked in Laredo, Texas. Oh my God, that's so sick. Sammy Hagar. Wait, and Guy Fieri have a tequila truck that got hijacked in Texas.
And there's uh a load of a million dollars of retail in it, yeah. Oh my god. First of all, what the hell tequila do they have that's worth a truckload if it's worth a million dollars? You know, do we talk about like 40,000 bottles in one truck? We talked about the cheese heist, right?
No. No? Oh you know about this, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Neil's Yard Dairy, like someone in France order like you know, 370 or 380,000 worth of cheddar, really high-end tet cheddar, and then just didn't pay them for it because they weren't real, they stole it. And the question I have is how do you sell that? Like, if if all of a sudden some random French person's like, I have the Montgomery cheddar, I'm like, you stole that crap. I'm gonna turn you in. You know what I mean?
Like, how do you push something that there's not that much of? That's like what Amazon does to us with our Sears all though. Yeah, but I mean, like, there's not as much, yeah. But again, we're like little people. Neil's yard.
I mean, how in other words, like, who's buying everyone was gonna buy this the the Sears all this be like, I didn't know. But like, you know, with the cheddar, I mean, everyone who's a cheese person knows that that cheddar is stolen. Like, it's a little bit cross-country line, yeah, across the border or something, you know. Yeah, and it's a lot more than personal consumption. That's beyond personal consumption cheese, no matter how much cheese you eat.
And the same goes true for this uh tequila, but the idea that Mr. I Can't Drive 55 and Guy Fieri have a tequila together, and that a million wait, a million dollars? Yeah, a million dollars of it was stolen. So no, I mean, if it was in Laredo, that's supposed to Mexico, right? So, wow.
Yeah, but what what self-respecting Mexican is gonna steal an American person's tequila brand and bring it back across the border. They do that these two white guys are making tequila, and they were like, boom, you know. I don't know. Weird. That's a good story, though, stuff.
Um Z Banks wants to know how much glycerin can uh I add to cocktails. I had a beesne's cocktail this summer that was very viscous. Uh it was also delicious and now trying to recreate it. The drink had uh almost a viscosity of two to one honey syrups. That's quite viscous.
Uh so I figured they must have added something else like glycerin. I started with one teaspoon of glycerin, now double that. Uh okay, listen, uh your your recipe has about nine percent uh glycerin. I don't add more than uh I don't add more than about two percent, so 20 grams per liter. Uh anytime I need more than that, I mean maybe up to five gram, uh sorry, like five percent, like 50, but that'd be a lot.
Like 20 grams per liter is a lot kind of better uh range. Uh I would use polydextrose. So go on uh Monarch's Pantry sells it. You can also get it on Amazon, polydextrose, make a one-to-one uh simple syrup with polydextrose, and you can add as much of that as you need to make it as viscous as you like. And in fact, you can add the polydextrose to the lemon juice or whatever, so that you're not drastically increasing the dilution by make adding more uh simple syrup, but that's that's what I would do.
Uh 38 seconds. Uh Elliot says, Dave mentioned that his wife wanted uh a low sugar pumpkin spice latte. My wife has the sand request, so I'd love the spec if it exists, but also other suggestions. Welcome. Uh so you're thinking of doing it as a tincture.
I would just do it the same way that I said. I would I would boil the pumpkin spice mix in water, uh, unsteep it, and then add 50% of the weight of that syrup in polydextrose, and then you'll have a very neutral pumpkin spice. I haven't made it yet because I've been busy. I've been out like, you know, and this Thursday is the museum uh Mofad's uh gala, so I've been had my head underwater trying to get stuff done. However, that's what I would do, and I'm telling you, I know it would work.
So cooking issues.
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