Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Dave R. I'm your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with John right in front of me. How are you doing, John? Doing great.
Good. Okay, yeah, good. Got uh Joe rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you?
Doing well, doing well. Uh over there in Los Angeles, we have uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. You bringing the hammer down.
I guess so. Do you uh do you remember? Uh you don't, but I know I've asked you this, and you've always said no. You've never seen the BG's version of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band, wherein the bang bang Maxwell Silver Hammer is like Steve Martin as a dentist hitting people on the head.
No. But I like I imagine you doing it. So in my head, there's that. Anyway, uh we have Mr. Jackie Molecules.
Jack, how you doing? I'm good. Also in Los Angeles, correct? Or are you back here for Thanksgiving time yet? No, I'm I'm here in LA and uh heading to Connecticut tomorrow.
Yeah. Where in wait, I forget, where in Connecticut are you going? Stanford area, like Norwalk. Okay. Okay.
Like, I don't know. That's that's a Connecticut. For those of you that think Connecticut's so tiny that there's only one Connecticut, there are so many Connecticuts. Yeah. But I don't know, there's colony pizza out there, this good hot dogs.
Plenty to do in that part of Connecticut. Okay. Everywhere. Yeah. Okay.
Uh we do not have Quinn in the upper left. He is uh uh he's uh recuperating and also he was like this. He said, in quote in the text, crap on Thanksgiving. I'm from Canada. He didn't actually say that.
But it would be amazing if he didn't. I can say he said it. Yeah, yeah. And special guest. Actually, I don't know where she's coming out of right now, but Chef Elizabeth Faulkner, welcome.
First, is this is your first time on the show? I think. It is my first time, and I'm I'm beaming in from Los Angeles. Los Angeles, Los Angeles. Yeah.
So uh now, do you live in Los Angeles now? I do. I was in New York for about a decade and I moved to Los Angeles. And Heather is from San Francisco. She's also on here.
And she's uh uh actually in LA, but we're in two separate places right now. All right. Hey Heather, welcome. Oh, hello, how's everybody? Okay, so like so see if I get this chronology correct.
Uh you're in San Francisco for a long time, open some some restaurants, get a lot of uh, you know, good reviews. You're like, San Francisco feels like a small, small town. I'm out. You come to New York for a decade, and then you're like, oh, now I see why everyone hates it here, and then you go to LA. So are you happy in LA or no?
Is that me? First of all, is that accurate? Well, not completely because um I do love New York, but I moved back to LA where I grew up because of the pandemic, and I was like, oh, I want to be closer to my parents, and I missed Meyer Lemons and a lot of the produce out here. A lot I missed it a lot, but now I miss the apples in New York. So, you know.
Yeah. Now, question Meyer Lemons, you actually like the juice, or is just the aroma so intoxicating that you like it? Because uh Nastasia loves the aroma, correct, Nastasia, but the juice, you're like, meh, meh. Yeah, you know, I exactly yeah, it's all about the zest for me. Well, I couldn't hear you.
Your phone is clicking a little bit, it's hard for me to hear. What uh what'd you say? I said it's all about the zest for me, the rind. Yeah, I love the the zest of the citrus. I think zest is one of those words that I really like it, but I feel like some people could hate it.
I like the word zest. Stas, how do you feel about zest? I know you're triggered by some words. I like zest. Yeah.
I think like zesty is too excited. It's like people who like think that you're being like a uh a show off for like zest, sure. You know what I mean? Whereas I like zest. I think zest is good.
Uh and uh Heather, I didn't know you were on. Now before he so long story short, before we get into the normal part of the show, Elizabeth uh has a new uh a new brand, which by the way, folks, it's called you pronounce it tomorrow, right? Like tomorrow. Correct. Yeah.
Now seeing seeing the label, I'm so stupid that I didn't get that for a long time. I was like, tomorrow? I was like, couldn't figure it out. I was like, ah, you know what I mean? I was like, I wonder what that's about.
And then like on the website, if you go, it's T postrophe Morrow. If you go on the website, and then it I was like, oh, you're like the name means, but I'm like, I still didn't get it. And then all of a sudden it said tomorrow afterwards. I was like, oh my God, I'm so stupid. Isn't that crazy?
If you how many people have you had who didn't immediately get it? Anyone or just me? Uh you know, no, it's not just you. Um, I mean, it's it's definitely a play on words, but the root of the word is tomorrow, which is um an ancient word for date and date palm. So it's kind of a play on words too.
Like we wanted to, we were looking at the resilience of the date palm. It's been around since early times. And so we were like, you know, what wanted to we're thinking about climate change and all the things going on in the world, and we were like, you know, made today for tomorrow's world. Like we want to make something on the inside that's um delicious and real and doesn't have artificial flavors and colors, and then it's, you know, the upcycle palm fronts on the on the label. Um, you know, we made our own paper.
Like we it's we put a lot of detail in the entire package, what's inside and outside. So it's that's the idea. It's made today for tomorrow's world and that's why we call it tomorrow. And it also has got the Amaro pun in it too. So it's like like all pun on pun on pun on pun on pun.
Yeah and it kind of like I think the guy um we actually had a graphic design uh graphic designer from New York a guy that lives in Brooklyn and um he I think he came up with just the most beautiful um font artwork for the logo because it looks like something kind of historical ancient but kind of futuristic too so yeah it's kind of a good it looks like the date palm has like a bird's face and it's gonna peck me in the eye but not in a bad way not in a bad way in a good way. Well do you see a do you see a close there's two women harvesting the dates in the palm tree? Oh is that what that is? Okay my vision is so bad. Like I can't tell you how bad my close vision is I when I get home I'll put on my magnifiers which I use to do any close work and I I will I will look at it.
But uh also uh now Heather correct me if I'm wrong uh I looked this up before I came on you were at Picardi for a number of years first you came from the wine world and then went to Picardi for a while is that true yeah I have um almost uh the same amount of time up Elizabeth cooking in the beverage alcohol business so mostly on the wine side mostly in distribution but I did do a brief tour at Picardi S which brought me into spritz and love of Amaro and all things um alcohol and spirits. All things alcohol and spirits. Did you uh did you happen to know uh AK when she was at uh Bacardi? She's uh my old bar manager. Best people, best people.
No, I you know, we were I was on the commercial sales side on the West Coast. Um but it I wasn't there for that long, so it was hard to meet with everyone. And how much did how much did that help? Because like I'm actually interested in the whole idea of like uh chef and liquor people, because this is one of the ways, right? When everyone's thinking about what am I gonna do, like starting uh a brand for a while it was um a lot of people wanted to start, you know, gins or I think um, you know, Amari in general, I think because of the ability to make something that's not just another XYZ to do your own flavor profiles, do your own thing, have a lot of control.
Uh and so teaming up like a liquor person and a chef, I think is you know, a really you know smart, smart way to do it. But uh you've been in business what about a year? It's uh it's been going as a concern. I mean, not selling, but like going as a concern. I took like a year and a half of RD.
Sorry. Uh and and then um and we were able to finally launch just uh uh just over two months ago, actually. So about about two years in general to get it off the ground. Oh, look at this batch number zero zero zero one. Um I see unfortunately you guys have gone euro freaky and are a 700 milliliter bottle, which is the wave of the future, but damn do I hate it.
God, do I hate the 700? It's a it's a nice looking bottle, but you're throwing off all of my numbers. Someone's like, oh hey, uh okay, I'm gonna get a bottle. I'm that's 12 and a half drinks. All right, so like I'm figuring out like all this stuff, you know what I mean?
Like I think on bottle bases and drinks, and now everything is like you guys are going the way of diamond kosher salt and domino, where you're gonna just make my sugar package, my salt package smaller. Killing me. It's not you, it's the industry. It's not you personally, it's the industry. But man, you know what I mean?
Yeah, you definitely have to be aware of the ounce cost. Um, but for efficiency reasons, especially now with how how difficult it is to actually get glass uh bottles, you kind of have to go that direction and and kind of push the 700s into the US market, which are already well and thriving in the base uh size in the UK market, etc. Yeah. I mean, all those Euroweasels look like they're there's used to a 700 and by the way, fifth 50 milliliter standard pours, right? So, you know, they're just downsizing everything over there.
You know what I'm saying? So, like for them, yeah. Because uh honestly, I mean, the ounce cost makes a huge no uh you can think about drinks however you want to think about them, right? I think about the drink pour cost, right? And so like I'm assuming that all of my drinks have roughly two ounces in them.
So I'm doing all of my doing all of my mental math based on like how it impacts like the drink I'm serving. And so I guess you know, 700s are fine to think about bottle-wise. Because when you're going to talk to somebody, you're asking them the price. Because that's I'm that jerk at a tasting where someone tastes my nice nice, what's the bottle price? You know what I mean?
Like, John, you've seen me do it about a billion times. Because I want to know right ahead. I'm I I'll tell you, I was at a tasting in Barcelona recently for a baijo, and they're talking about oh, this it's a baijo uh that you know is like very neutral nose, like no blue cheese, no, no none of that, like super neutral, like green, you know, grainy, grain, like you know, sorghumy nose. And uh, you know, easy to work with, frankly, you know what I mean? Because it doesn't have a lot of the stuff that you know how when you some baijos, you open them in a bar, and the whole bar is like, what happened?
You know, um, like durien went off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, uh, you know, it's kind of like when the kitchen at my new bar when they bust out a bunch of scallops and the whole place smells like seafood. I'm like, oh my god, this is so bad for everyone that doesn't like seafood. You know what I mean?
But they don't get it because they're cooks. Anyway, so uh no offense. Uh so anyway, so finally I get through it and no mention of price. They're telling me about cocktails, they're serving cocktails. Look at them, 134 dollars a bottle, 130, 140 euros a bottle.
I'm like, for a for a 700 or a 500 or something. I was like, get out of here. Don't be don't be a dummy. Don't tell me I'm gonna make cocktails with something that's 140 euros, and don't tell me that if I'm gonna pour some sort of artisanal baijo at that price point to an American, then I'm gonna do it with one that tastes relatively neutral. The whole thing didn't work for me.
You know what I mean? It's a well-made product, but I didn't understand where it fit. You know what I mean? Uh were they trying to sell it as that base spirit to use and in cocktails or just as a modifier? No, I think they wanted it to be a base spirit because like it it didn't have it didn't have like the the it didn't have the structure to be a modifier, right?
It had the structure to be a base. And so I just didn't understand its application. So like let's now and and but their main thing is they're like, look, you know, this is a it's a it was a traditional product and it was always made that way. It was always like a lighter nose baijo. It's not like they made it for Western weasels, but like they were definitely feeling if you're gonna market Baijo to western weasels, which is what they want to do to a certain extent.
Uh, they were like, This is what those idiots will like. You know what I mean? And yeah, it was fine. Um, but uh to that we're doing this in reverse. We're gonna do our like our what happened this week in Thanksgiving stuff, uh, I guess after we talk about the the hooch.
And I brought it with in the studio so you guys can taste. You wanna so what I think is really, really, really interesting about this product is not only do you sweeten first of all, Southern California dates. I was at the bar, I was tasting this stuff out yesterday at the bar, and a guy yeah, a guy next to me, uh customer, guest, was like, I was tasting him out too because it's rude to sit there and talk with your bartender about tasting a new spirit and not give a skim taste to the to the guest that's right in between you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it's rude.
So uh, so you know, I mean and I and I was like, oh, so here's here's the thing that I think's really interesting. All the sugar comes from dates, including the fermentation. So date sugar ferment, distilled, so date sugar, or you know, it's date sugar is the base of the actual spirit. And hence this is the first thing that you're gonna taste, John is the O de V, which is just date spirit, all right, just date spirit. What's the proof on that one?
80 proof. 80 proof. 80. And what does it come out of the stilla at? Um, we with this distiller, we did uh like a hundred.
I I kind of forgot it's probably a hundred. 120. 120, yeah. 120 of that's right. Yeah.
Uh so it's you know, it's like super clean. Like, I wouldn't like necessarily I you know, I'm I'm gonna try it with uh, because you know, I do date spirits, but not obviously the way you do date's beers, but like uh uh, you know, I do I do do work with dates, so I'm gonna try it, try it with dates. I haven't mixed it in a cocktail, I've just tasted it neat. I haven't even watered it yet, so I don't know like what aromas come out once you once you've watered it. Um but I think it's unique in that you don't see a lot of spirits made from dates, but you got you guys got nothing but like awesome dates down there.
So I tell the bar guy, I was like, Well, I think the shtick is that you know, shtick in a good way again, no offense. I think the shtick is that like you know, they're using this source of sugar that is you know not normally used for this and can make like a delicious you know product. And the guy goes, She's from San Francisco, they're shipping that all the way to San Francisco to make it. I was like, I don't know. I'm gonna talk to her tomorrow.
I don't know, man. I don't know. You know what I mean? And so here it is, you're in LA. So he can poop himself, right?
Um, there's a couple things. So we are basically like we're making this stuff in the state of California right now because we're small, we don't have our own distillery. Um, and so this whole thing came about because Heather and I were talking about how much we like Amari, we were in Sicily, we're talking about Amaro, and I was like, Yeah, but I was kind of bitching about it and saying, you know, I like the bitterness. I love that America is kind of accepting and embracing the bitterness of Amaro, but they're often countered by too much sweetness for my palate. So I don't think of them as a great digestivo today.
And I said, wouldn't it be great if people, you know, if we could make it with dates? Like there's such a great round, smooth sweetener. So that's how the Amaro started. We started working on that. And then I was like, if we're gonna go to all this effort to sweeten with dates, why wouldn't why can't we use a neutral spirit of dates instead of grape or grain?
And who makes date spirit? So um we fermented some and had it distilled in an incubator distillery up north, and then um we were like, this is actually pretty good. So then we've, you know, contracted a different distiller to make this first round. But we're we obviously this kind of we don't want to be like freight trucking everything off and down the state. So we found somebody um closer to us that I think we're gonna be able to work with.
We hope to work with um for the next batch. But um the idea is not to go. I'm yeah, I'm was born in San Francisco. I grew up in LA. Heather lives in San Francisco, but she was born in San Diego.
We're both kind of like grew up near the desert. And um, you know, the idea is not to make it in San Francisco. We're and we were certainly not, we were up in Petaluma making this first batch. But then, you know, thank God we have this amazing state full of agriculture and a lot of history of you know, making um spirits and wine. And you know, that's so that's kind of how that all came to be.
So to answer your customer's question, it's not we're not being San Francisco specific, we're actually just trying to get, you know, a really great product made by people who know how to make the stuff. Can I tell you the only time I was ever in Petaluma? I was in Petaluma with Harold McGee. We went to a thrift store and we went in and they had a secret room full of Nazi mobilia. And Harold and I were like, Oh my god.
Harold and I were like, Oh, let's let's get the hell out. And that was the only time I was because Harold was like, There's some good bakery here in Petaluma. They were closed, and we're like, Oh, I'm like, let's go to a thrift shop because you know, me. And then like in Nastas is the same way. And uh yeah, we were like, oh man, we gotta get the hell out of Petaluma.
We're gonna get kids. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, so anyway, that yeah. Go ahead.
I was gonna say, I th uh I just watered it, and I think you get like some of the because I like in even in a quote unquote neutral, I like feeling kind of where it comes from and uh like kind of think where it comes from, like fruitiness comes out more when it's watered a little bit. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, are you guys talking talking to your people in the studio? Because I Yeah, we're getting crazy we're getting cranked up here in the studio.
So, like I did water it with uh with Pellegrino because that's how fancy we are. Actually, it's the only water I have here, but uh yeah, yeah. Anyway, yeah. Well, this is a it's an interesting kind of new spirit because you know there isn't really date brandy out there, and it's technically a brandy or an O de V according to the TTB. But in my mind, the date is, you know, as somebody who's been cooking and baking with dates pretty much my whole life.
Um I think of the dates as being this beautiful caramelized fruit that's you know, caramelized in the hot desert sun. It's it's uh we use it as an alternative sweetener. Um it it's lower glycemic. That makes a lot more sense to me as far as a DGVO. Um, there's something about the mouthfeel of the date that, you know, especially when you get into the sweetening side in the Amaro and the cacao nib, but there it's just a soft round caramelized fruit.
And so I think of it more like the way we think of agave as an alternative sweetener and how agave works so well um in a spirit. That's that's how I feel about the date. It's like, oh, this just totally makes sense. It's gonna be like another grape-based spirit, and it works really well with other spirits in cocktails. Uh yeah, I mean, I've typically used dates in grain based in whiskies.
Let me ask you this. I haven't looked it up because I'm again too stupid to have looked it up beforehand. But uh, what's the primary sugar in dates? Is it a fructose situation or is it a sucrose situation? Or, you know, something like Dave.
I shouldn't be ready for you for this because I have to look this stuff up all the time too. It doesn't just roll out of my head. I believe it's alulose. What? Algulose.
No, I don't think so. No, it's not. Okay. Maybe there's some in there. Like the thing is like dates are like uh humans throughout history have loved fruits that are preposterously high in sugar, right?
Because they're useful, right? So dates, obviously, grapes, duh. You know what I mean? Like, so uh, or honey, not a fruit. But I'm curious, like, do you have some of the is is a date have enough stuff in it on its own to want to ferment, or does it get stuck like honey and you have to hit it with nutrient?
Um wait, I'm gonna I'm going back to your question of how much what the sugar is in your screen in a few seconds. I think it's a quick research, yeah. Mainly fructose? Yeah. Also glucose, but mainly fructose, yeah.
Checks it out. Although it's weird. It's a it's a l it's a it's a no acid almost fruit, low acid. So it's interesting that like it's completely inverted. So it must be storing it as fructose.
You know what I'm saying? Palms are so crazy, man. Like like fruits from some of palm tree fruits are so not sweet at all. You know what I mean? Or so oily.
Palms are amazing. I wish I lived in a place that palms grew. I wish that I could ever live anywhere other than right here. Like, you know what I mean? Like, uh, but alas, I can't.
Okay, so uh, so what what should we move to next? You want to move to Chocolate or you want to move to the uh the Amaro, the flag, the flag ship. Can I tell you again how stupid I am? Can I give you one more? We're gonna go to chocolate first, because I can tell you how stupid I am.
I think you would I would go to cacao nib first. Yeah, all right. So put uh John, pour some of that out. So let me see the label first. Let me see the label first.
So it says on the label, gotta understand. So this got delivered to the wrong address. It got delivered to the residence. So like I we didn't I didn't know where it was last night, so I'm like buzzing in. So I rush into the bar knowing nothing.
And I see on it it says cacao nib liqueur, and then but I don't look at that, I just look at the side and it says made with dandelion. I see dandelion. I don't can't see the word small batch because I didn't have the right glasses on. I just see the words dandelion and chocolate. I was like, okay, this is an Amaro made with dandelion root and and chocolate.
And then like, and then so then I drink it and I'm talking to that guy next to me, the same person who called you out on the San Francisco thing, and I was like, I mean, I taste the chocolate, but I don't taste any Danny dandelion root. I mean, I don't taste it at all. And he's like, you idiot, that's a chocolate manufacturer in San Francisco. I was like, oh geez, Louise. Anyway, yeah.
All right, so we're pouring this one out. So you wanna um so it's interesting. Just chocolate and date. Yeah, so this the way the reason I just came to be is because Heather and I started out, okay, let's make an Amaro that doesn't have any artificial flavors or colors. There's no caramel colors, just you know, the color comes from the date, the sweetness comes from dates.
Oh, let's make a date spirit. Amazing. And then I was like, oh my God, think of all the things I can do with a date spirit. And um, so I, you know, am a big fan of dandelion chocolate maker in San Francisco. They make they specialize in single origin uh source nibs for all these different chocolate bars, and it's really nerdy.
And Dave, you must you have to know dandelion chocolate because it's really fun to taste and study the different bars that they make just because of their different origin of cacao. So different nibs from them. Yeah, I took some different nibs from them, made um uh some liqueurs, we took it to dandelion and said, This is kind of fun. We're doing what you do in bars that looked in a chocolate liqueur. And when I think, I don't know about you, but when I think chocolate liqueur, it's not yeah, I have like a ooh, no, I don't think so.
That's not my thing. And I wanted to make something that was like, God, this tastes like liquid chocolate, you know, makes me think of campfires in the desert and s'mores and just all that, you know, yummy, it's something I really want to pour on ice cream, something that I want to mix in cocktails, mix with coffee. So um, we came up with this uh it's only it's we have we actually have this really special little kit available right now, too, through reserve bar, and it's got the bottle of our cacao nib liqueur plus a bar that dandelion made for us, but the so same two things date sweetened only and the single origin cacao nibs from Camino Verde Estate in Ecuador are in both products, and it comes in this little cute little kit with two little packets of instant espresso from equator coffee, and so you can make a little mocha carahillo or a cafe carah. We put the cocktail recipes in there. It's a really good way to amplify your still ever so popular espresso martini, uh, um but make it mocha.
So you know what I mean? But uh I I'm with you, but like it's it's not my thing either, but like it's just a really fun chocolate liqueur that's just you know it's very pure. If people are like, Do you have an espresso martino? I'm like, well, there's a bar right across the street. You know, uh no.
Uh I hear you. Yeah, no, we had we we've had them from time to time. Everyone wants to, I'm like, you know what? Okay, fine. You know what I mean?
Whatever. Uh I think it's I think it's uh delicious. By the way, uh before I forget, because I'm the master blaster of forgetting, uh, reserve bar is where people who can they can just order it, it will be shipped to them, correct? That's correct. And it's just and you can buy it and ship it to a lot of states, which you know, since we're like right out of the gate new, you know, we have distribution in California and we have some in Louisiana now, and you know, getting to some other states and New York is a priority because we know you guys have really fantastic uh cocktail culture.
So but reserve bar is a really cool e-commerce, um, like a curated website, you know, place you can buy all kinds of stuff. And um, so we're happy to have our all all three of our products plus the kit available on there. Yeah, yeah. So uh uh not to put you on the spot, but here I am putting you on the spot. So can you give a would is there any way that you would uh like look clear to giving our Patreon members a little discount code that we could put out on our Patreon?
Is that possible? I don't know if it's possible with reserve. I don't even know if I'm allowed to do that. Heather, are we allowed to do anything like that? I have no idea.
Well, there are a couple of holiday codes. There's a holiday 24 code available right now, and if you're a new time customer, then there's a pen percent, but I can I can work with them. They they've been an amazing partner for us. We're uh part of their um diversity um pages. So they've given us um a women only marking and specialized pages and give us a discount to to do um business with them, and so it's just been an incredible partnership for us.
Nice. All right. Well, uh we'll I guess talk off, uh have Quinn get touchy to talk talk off air. But hopefully, you know, because we have a Patreon. You want to tell John, you want to tell them why they might want to join the Patreon?
Yeah, patreon.com slash cooking issues is where you can find out about it. Uh we got three different membership levels, you get perks at every membership level. Um, you get access to our Discord, you get discounts with awesome people that we work with. Um prioritize question answering and just a whole bunch of other things. So yeah, check it out.
Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Which even though we're halfway into the show, we aren't gonna answer the questions. But we we gotta we we're talking, we're talking liquor right now. Yeah. Once I'm talking about liquor.
Yes, Doz, have you gotten to try these yet or no? No, I don't deserve it. Oh. Dave. Where can we like it?
I got a question for you. Yeah, what do you got? It's Elizabeth. Um I am wondering if you when you've been to Palm Desert, Palm Springs on your way, you know, people get date shakes. Have you ever had one of those?
No, I've heard they're good though. No. Well, it's yeah, I mean, it's like a no-brainer. It's like dates and ice cream blended together. It's a little sweet for me too, but I you know, if I had it with uh an ice cream I really liked or some other, you know, non-dairy thing, that might be kind of okay too.
It just depends. But I think that this um cacao nib or the amara is so good with it with ice cream or yogurt or whatever you want to do. But like I just think it's a really interesting, better way to do the date shake. I'm just throwing it out there. All right.
Uh by the way, uh, for those people who are worried about uh cacao nibs. So like 10 years ago, 12 years ago, whatever, when I, you know, wrote the liquid intelligence, bait I basically said, be careful with cacao nibs because they suck. And I was like, unless the company you're buying from really cares about cacao nibs, they suck. Because they put they put their crappiest possible cacao nibs into a bag and they're like, these are gonna taste like garbage anyway. Whatever this cook's gonna do with this is gonna be garbage, so I'm gonna give them garbage.
So like I'm not gonna call them out, but there's a famous San Francisco company whose cacao nibs taste like burnt and gross. You know what I mean? Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah. But um, so that's why I said Valrona.
Go with Valrona because everyone can get Valrona and Valrona does a good job on, you know, Valrona is like the best of the mediums. Like you know what I mean? Like you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think.
Anyway. Uh Rona is a great chocolate maker. Yeah. Yeah. So, but you're saying dandelion dandelion does a good job with their nibs in general, or just for you?
Because uh these the the like they taste it tastes good, tastes really good. I like it. You know what I mean? So like I'm just asking. Yeah, no, dandelion is um I've so I think you know this about me, but I've you know, I'm somebody who used to make a lot of chocolate, everything when I had citizen cake.
Um, and then I've I've also been to a lot of cacao growing regions. So I in the ear in my before I even had my own places in San Francisco, I um went to Venezuela and studied chocolate for a couple weeks. Um I've been to Dominican Republic and Madagascar, and all those trips were um around chocolate and stuff and really studying that. And then I was friends with Robert Steinberg, who started Sharpenberger chocolate maker and was he was really obsessed with um Venezuelan beans, and then dandelion comes along, you know, 10 years later after that, and they start going. I mean, I've been to one of their um estates in in Dominican Republic called Zorzal.
And they care the to s go from like the early 90s in Venezuela with El Ray chocolate to um Dominican with um dandelion and see how the fermentation and how they care for the nibs and it and then that they can also, you know, we're looking at other big giant chocolate companies that you can see that they don't care about their beans as much. They don't go through the same care and attention as uh somebody like this very small bean to bar chocolate maker like dandelion does. And so when you taste, you can go into any of their shops and taste their bars, but they also have the nibs usually right there too. So you can really taste the difference and the and the care that's gone into um caring for that very special plant that grows those amazing pods of uh, you know, chocolate beans with all the all the pulp and all that stuff. It's it's just really I'm uh I'm obsessive about ingredients and chocolate is something that I mean as Kether, I'll be like, you know, I can't just buy any cocoa nibs.
There's I I agree with you, Dave. Like it a lot of times you're just like this tastes like wax or plastic or it doesn't or burnt, you know, like all that stuff. So um I'm really picky about it. And that's why it was just like, oh, I have all these nibs because I have a nice relationship with dandelion anyway, just because I've you know done events with them and I I don't I mean, we used to buy, you know, back when I was living in San Francisco, we used to buy really good chocolate from a couple different sources. But when dandelion came along, I mean that it's more of a retail product, but they do have some stuff for um for ho for restaurant and chef people too.
Let me bounce something off you. So uh way back in the day when uh, you know, uh Jacques Therese hung up his uh, you know, n you know, normal pastry chef hat, right? Restaurant pastry chef hat and opened Jacques Therese like chocolate. You know, even like five years after that. So we're still talking like maybe it's like I don't know, whatever that was, like 15 years ago, 16 years ago, uh or 12 years ago, whatever it was, you know, I was just talking to him about it because obviously French culinary, both French culinary, and uh he was like, you know, the problem is is that for uh however good I can be, like I can't get the I don't have the buying power to get the good uh to get the good beans to get the good, you know, good product.
And I was like, oh man, that sucks. And then I think a lot of that has changed. I think now people can get actually like smaller manufacturers can get good stuff. And do you think that A, do you think that's true? And B, do you think that part of that has to do with the homemaking chocolate revolution in the way that like you know, like home brewing caused the craft movement to explode?
Yeah, I think I think that's true. I think that there's been such an explosion on the shelf of just retail um bean to bar chocolate, and that like we were at what was that, Heather? What was that a thing in San Francisco that we went to that was like a whole chocolate experience? Oh, the craft all the craft chocolate, craft chocolate experience, yeah. Yeah, we went there and did some cocktails with our stuff.
Um, and we tasted all these different small, small, you know, uh global different uh brands of um bean to bar chocolate. And boy, you can really I think it's because you can just really taste the difference, and people are, you know, it's it is like the craft brewing and coffee explosion that has happened. It's I think chocolate's kind of already been through that too. That's kind of why we think that like um, you know, this craft of spilling in America is really uh a cool time right now because people are making some pretty interesting things all over all over the country. Um, you know, it's getting into all these different little liqueurs and whatnot bitters and everything.
All right, so now uh John has poured out uh the Amaro, which is I guess we're ending where you theoretically started, right? Uh with the Amaro. Now uh what j just so that uh I don't have to actually like do a bunch of density tests and crap because I really actually don't like doing it even though I have to. Like what how much sugar per liter are we talking on on the cocoa nib and the uh and the amount? Do you have that measured?
Or are you gonna make me measure? Uh you got sound of a gun. The brick the no, the bricks on it on the Amaro is like um I think it's around twenty. Yeah, but you can't you can't you can't because that's an alcohol. Oh, I'll measure it.
I'll measure it. So I I I use the I use the uh what's it? You got all your tools there. Yeah. Well, so like I went around for the for the redo of this book, which is never ending.
I went around with a a density meter, like this an electronic density meter and a refractometer, and the combination of those two numbers can get me ABV and um and sugar. And it works. It means I need one of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should mean like I don't like the company because they charge you a subscription to get the last decimal point even after I've paid for the piece of equipment.
But uh Yeah, yeah, it's good. I mean it works. It does what it does what it needs to do. All right, so we have the Amaro here. It's rocking in.
Both of both of your uh liqueurs are uh coming in at 35%. Uh I don't know why I always ask proof because I think in percentages. Proof's a dumb number. Yeah, we need to get rid of proof. Proof is proof is just an proof is more proof that we're weirdos as this as a nation, as if you needed any proof that we were weirdos.
You know what I mean? It's funny that you say that because you know, here I do, you know, I've been cooking and baking all these years, and when I started working in this and making up the formula for the Amaro and um and then talking to the distillers and uh, you know, I'm like, God, everybody speaks such a dramatically different language, and then they're always like I speak in metric, but then they mostly speak in gallons and proof gallons, and I'm like, it's a whole learning curve I'm going through here because I don't speak the I don't really speak the same language as you guys yet. Ain't nothing dumber than the proof gallon. You know what I mean? The whole thing is crazy.
Like it's it's all because of arcane tax garbage. You know what I mean? I know. Well, I feel like I'm supposed to be like ordering fruit in bushels or something too, if I'm gonna speak in the language. Pecks, pecks, how many hogsheads do we have?
You know what I mean? Like the whole thing's the whole thing's absurd. Uh all right, so tell us the spice baseness. It's lovely. I I I would use it like uh what's your I forget what you have in your standard pour for this.
It's uh your what's your hero pour, as they say. It's such a dumb term. I hate all I hate all marketing terms, like they're the worst. Like the expression. When someone says, How many expressions of of gin do you have?
I'm like, you mean like different labels, different brands? What are you talking? You know what I mean? But like, so uh yeah. So what's what what what do you what are people doing with it?
I just want to okay, I'm gonna explain that, but I wanted to explain how w the reason I kind of look at this like I wanna I really want to respect the flavor of the date itself and then take people on a journey. Um it's gonna sound more like a perfume maker, but that's really true. I wanted to like say, okay, people are making some interesting things around the country. I'm I I do like uh Angelina Amaro, which is more a wine-based Amaro out here in California, made in Vince by Ventura Spirits. But I wanted it to be a little bit more of uh a nod to the historical Amaros that I like.
Um so I, you know, um I'm somebody who really likes Southern Italian food and and the Amari from there. So I like um I wanted the citrus. I wanted, and because I want to take you on a little trip around California, so from the desert with the date being the most predominant flavor, to you know all over California where we grow citrus and then give you some of those um fennel notes that you get when you're driving up and down the state because we have a lot of wild fennel that grows on the side of the highway, and there's different times of the year where it just is like in the air and it smells so good. Can I mention can I mention your fennel pizza won world's best pizza in 2012, your fennel pollen pizza, correct or incorrect? Very correct.
It's called uh Pinocchio Flower Power. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So big fan of the fennel pollen, you know. Um never got huge. I thought it was gonna become the next everything, and it didn't.
Because people are dumb, like me. Well, you know what's really cool about the pizza is that um I a couple of restaurants in San Francisco over time, and including Dan Ricker in Raza, New Jersey, Jersey City makes um we've he's made an homage pizza um to that Pinocchio flower power. And it's kind of cool because sometimes it's in it's actually in Dan's book too. So I you know I'll make it here and there and people are like, oh my God, this is so you know it's uh whatever. Sorry.
I drail do my a classic me I drail. Okay, so you're talking about driving highway fennel there. Okay, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. So and then um but just kind of to give you a little you know the flavors from here because we're making a product from you know this state but it that that isn't so full of itself.
It's trying to it's really wanting to respect the flavor of the date nod to the past and the sort of fun and bizarre and wild um I do remember when um Nancy Silverton at uh Austria Musa here had they had Joe and everybody brought in all these different Amaros and they had a little Amaro cart when they first opened they don't do that now but it was so cool because they had stuff that just smelled like church and like you know frankincense color brew and stuff. Yeah crazy stuff. My wife hates frankincense by the way so it's kind of too bad. I I kinda like frankincense. My wife hates it hates it.
Is that right? Yeah she hates it. Um yeah I'm I'm I'm a fan of the the resin stuff I I like mastic I like frequency I like myrrh and I I think it's so um I think it's wild that these things have been around for so long and not just in churches but in culinary um and in beverages. Yeah. And um anyway, so that's that's kind of how the Amaro is is going to lead you down a path of like, oh, I feel like I'm you know, kind of going from the Sierras to the desert to the Sierras to the coast, you know, and and some of those ingredients.
I'm really obsessed with the different um varietals of citrus here. So there's a few different citrus dry hydrated citrus in there. Really great working with great farmers here, organic, like everything. Um it doesn't say a hundred percent organic on the label because um the distillery that we made this batch in uh is not certified. So yeah, also man, we're really going out of the way.
Yeah, I mean, like anytime a lay anytime a label is involved like that, it's like you can get co-opted by jerks. This is why like it's more like knowing your product to me. I understand it from a marketing perspective. It it's super important to label. I'm not disagreeing at all, but like for me, it's much more about knowing and trusting the people that you're buying from.
You know what I'm saying? That's right. Yeah, totally. And like we worked with this great citrus farmer here. Um, also great artichokes.
So, you know, it's got some of those things in it. Um who loves artichokes? Nastasia the hammer lopez. Oh my god, right? Yeah, I was driving up and yeah, I was in Santa Clarita or whatever, somewhere up there this weekend, and put like artichokes forever, as far as you can see, it was so beautiful.
Oh, they're just the best. I'm uh I'm a huge fan of artichokes too. And especially I've like I've been to Christly three times in the last four years from like different, you know, those like different chef trips, chef led trips, like you know, fun stuff with uh total strangers. And um, but uh those artichokes in um Catania that they just grilling on this on you know, I mean the market and on the street, just with like lemon and garlic and olive oil, it's like it's so delicious. You know, as they used to say in the kitchen world must be nice.
I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very spoiled. Yeah. Uh before we uh before we go talk about like, you know, questions in Thanksgiving garbage and all that.
Uh which date are you are you using uh what are you using for this? Which date? A specific date or like a mix or what? It's a mix of Majoule and Deglet. Deglet noor.
Yep. Uh but you know, pretty much Dega Nore is like all the other varieties. But we do have like amazing different um species, varieties of dates uh here in California. So w we're interested in in looking at all of that even more. And I do wanna um bring up that Heather was really the person who was obsessed with like, you know what we need to do is we need to take all the the skirts off those palm trees everywhere and turn that into paper for our packaging.
And so the first thing that we've done is make our labels out of the upcycled palm fronds that were going to landville s landfill. So we we found an arborist that collects all that you know, they con they're contracted in different cities to clean up all the palms and all the other trees out there. And so we went out to their lot and picked up um you know, all this palm frond and we had it made into pulp and paper by a papermaker in San Diego. So um that's kind of unique and uh everybody really does love the the feel of the label. Um it's really different than the sort of glossy, shiny stuff that typic typically people make for their for their beverages bottles.
Um, and and it I don't know, there's something it just it just feels like the right thing to do. We're, you know, wanting to try to have a lesser footprint in the things that we're making. So that these things are very conscious decisions uh on our part. You know, the it's a hundred percent cork in the bottle, not plastic, and by the way, so that's a big deal. For those of you uh bar weasels out there, it's a one-piece composite cork, so the cap won't be separating off the cork when you pull it out, which I oh my god, do I hate that?
God, do I hate that? My goodness. Jeez, Louise. And then, like what? Now I gotta find another thing in the bar because if it doesn't have a sp if it's not in the rail and doesn't have a speed on it, right?
Then I mean not that I like speeds at all, but like I bend, I bend, right? But like yeah, then what I gotta jam some other freaking cork in it, like a jerk. I don't know. Right. Yeah.
Um so but I wanted to answer your other question about um what this works really well in as far as cocktails go. I mean, I'm really interested in like what you would make, what other bartenders that have been doing this craft for so long would make with it. You know, we like it in a black Manhattan like you would use Nomara, but I have been experimenting and making some um different cocktails and spritzes with it too. And I came up with one a couple weeks ago that was pretty damn tasty. It was like I used an ounce of our uh O de V and an ounce of Amaro, and then I used like um I kind of have two versions of this, and I call it a carpe sutura spritz, but I it was like a spoonful of cher of sour cherry syrup, um, and then some yuzu juice and uh a little bit of all spice dram.
I'm gonna I'm gonna say like a quarter ounce. Um, and that just was a little bit of like club soda or a little bit of like um whatever, like a lint, like a not a super sweet lemon soda with it is quite tasty. The all spice didn't ride over the top of your product? Because I find any time anyway they put it in, I'm like, oh my, all spice, all spice. No?
All right. It wasn't too much for me. I think the blend of the spices that are in our amara with that is what's kind of it just it just everybody was like, what is this? It's so tasty. Um and I did it instead of I like the ch I'm a big fan of that sour cherry syrup, that concentrated, you know, Michigan cherry syrup.
Um, but I also like uh just date syrup. So instead of the cherry. And so, you know, it wouldn't give you as much acidity, but that yuzu juice with it. Anyway, it just I feel like we also used it in a margarita. We call it a margarita.
So it's like an ounce of blanco tequila, an ounce of our O de V, and an ounce of the Amaro as the sweetener, and then lime juice. And that's pretty fun because it's just different. It's got all that citrus up you know up front. Um can you can you make it blue? Can you make it blue?
No, I'm kidding. You can't like uh no, it's dark. You can't make it blue. Can't make it blue. We we we've been pouring at the bar incredibly cheap blue curacao because it was very high up in an 18-way orange liqueur tasting.
And so it kind of is a joke, but we also kind of like it. We've been pouring blue margaritas. I get it. Yeah. Yeah.
It's like the shark bite or whatever that's that's uh John Deberry's drink. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. All right, hold on a sec.
So uh before we leave this, because I we gotta rush through like you know, Thanksgiving and all that and questions. Uh on the label, I'm gonna read the Latin and you're gonna translate it. I already looked up, but it's from some famous quote, but I don't remember what the famous quote is. Uh ducks femina facet et carpe futura. Yeah, so two women two made by two women.
Or two women made this, uh, and then sees the future. There you go. All right. So go on uh reservebar dot com, pick some up. Maybe we'll get you well, maybe we'll get you a little little little something something for Patreon listeners.
All right, all right, now uh very quickly, speed round. What do we have from last week and what's going on for Thanksgiving for the crew? What do we got? You guys included, Elizabeth Heather. Family Thanksgiving this week in Connecticut.
Yeah, going to Connecticut? Yeah. Going to old Lime. Yep. Yeah.
What are you gonna make? Standard? Stuffing turkey gravy. Yeah, who's you doing it or your mom doing it? I'm doing that.
What kind of turkey you got? Uh whatever she gets. She gets all the supplies and yeah. From the big wine lime. No.
Um there's a butcher shop grocery store on the main street in old Saybrook. And are you gonna do it traditional? Are you gonna spatcock that mother? Spatchcock and then on the grill. All right, okay.
How do you you have one of those super fancy grills now? No, charcoal. Oh, all right. I like charcoal, charcoal. Okay, good, good.
And uh are you a sweet potato family or not? We are not. I do love sweet potato, but yeah. You asked? I do love sweet potato, but it's never been a thing for Thanksgiving.
Never? No. If you had sweet potatoes, would you want marshmallows and almonds? Not almonds, but definitely marshmallows. Okay.
Yeah. Okay. Tiny marshmallows. Yeah. For the last couple of minutes.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Uh what kind of stuffing?
Uh a lot of sage, breakfast sausage, cellar carrot onion, green apples, dried cranberries. Green apples, huh? Yeah. Okay. Not dried, fresh.
Yep. Okay. All right. Uh all right, Jack, I haven't heard from you. What about you?
What are you doing for Thanksgiving? Going to Connecticut, you're going to Stanford, Bob. Who's there? Which which part of your family's? Yeah.
It's my brother, and he's got three kids, and he's stressed and lazy, so he's probably just uh phoning it in. By the way, I like how you think last year you just got a rotisserie chicken. Cheese Louise, man. Yeah. Hey, man, you know.
No turkey? Full full-time teacher, three kids, no time off. He's just, you know. All is forgiven. Okay.
You know what? You know what? Okay. Oh, I'm like, oh, I have all the kids, so you have to come to my house. Why don't I then suck it up and make the freaking turkey?
You know what I mean? Look, Peter Singer, for all of you who don't eat meat at all, Peter Singer did a big uh essay on why you shouldn't have turkey. It was in the New York Times. Like I already know all of Peter Singer's arguments. I've read Animal Liberation like a billion times.
I just happen to disagree. I'm gonna eat turkey. Cause ain't nothing smell like a roasting turkey. Like a roasted turkey smells delicious. You know what I mean?
Yeah. It just does. And the sandwich is the next day, arguably the best meal of the year. Sandwiches. Come on.
Turkey. Uh all right. So are you are you bringing anything? Do you have to bring anything? I'm only bringing Parker House rolls and dessert to my thing.
I'm also gonna bring some cheese, because please. Because my cheesemonger, my brother's fiance, who's a cheesmonger, isn't gonna show up until right before we eat. And so I'm I mean, and and I know that even though Maria Guarnicelli, my editor, hated people that serve cheese before the meal. Hated them. That's just what my family does.
I'm sorry. Anyway, uh so uh Stas, what do you what are you doing? What happened? I'm having my mom's dry turkey. How about the gravy?
What kind of what kind of gravy on it? Pack it. Do you even walk into the kitchen during Thanksgiving, or is it just that gonna be too much stress? I don't, I'm not allowed to walk into the kitchen. Does your mom still have the roasted red pepper dishes that she used to have?
Oh no. No. And you like a sweet potato with your with your Thanksgiving, correct, Nastasia? Are you sweet and mash? You like sweet and mash?
Yes, I do. And how's your family sweet potato? What's what's the stuff? I love the big marshmallows. Big marshmallows.
Big marshmallows. Big marshmallows. Nice. Are you are are are are you guys a uh tin foil for like you know almost an hour and then rip the tinfoil off and brown the hell out of the top of it, kind of a sitch? No.
No. That's I guess what we do. Anyway, we'll use a small marshmallows. Anyway. Uh Heather Elizabeth, what are you guys doing?
We are going over to my dad and stepmom's house. My mom will be there too with her boyfriend, which is really cool. My parents all get along. Um, and Heather's got her two boys, twin boys here uh down from San Francisco, and they're 17, and so they're coming over. We're all going over, and I'm making turkey and like a sage um gravy, and I'm making some packery pasta with some Mount Etna vodka sauce.
It's gonna be spicy and saffron y. Nice. And uh and it'll have a little creme fresh and pecorino in there, and then my mom is making stuffing and pies. My mom's a really good baker. I got it from somebody.
And um, and then the boys are making the heather's kids are helping me make everything, and they're gonna um make some of the Parker House rolls. And uh we're definitely gonna have some carpe futura spritz for everybody because my family is like obsessed with our stuff. And the last time I was we were tasting them on I think when we when we finally bottled the cacao nib, my mom just put her hand on the table and said, We're gonna need a lot more of this. Nice, nice. By the way, those weasels at the Parker house uh back in West Massachusetts, right?
They really did a good roll. They really knew how to make a roll. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, and the correct answer is butter. The correct answer is butter.
You know what I mean? White butter all over that thing. I'm gonna make it into a little Pac-Man garbage and then white butter all over it. Everyone's gonna love it. And you know what?
They're right. You know what? Every year when I when when I have to bring Parker House rolls to someplace, I'm like, eh, eh, I want to get the rice just right. And so like I want to bake it on site and like have it be fresh when it comes out. But this yeah, to hell with it.
Crap on it. If you want me to bring the rolls, I'm gonna bake them off in the morning, and then we'll just reheat them, and you chumps can just deal with it. You're not gonna get the hyper fresh, but I really prefer them right when they come out of the oven. Cause yeah. But suck it.
Yeah. But you know what the thing is, is that like, you know, when you go to someone else's house, like me, you know, my my sister and brother's house, it's like when's the oven free? When's the turkey coming out? And then you're the person hogging the oven, then you're the bad person. You know what I mean?
Hell with it. Hell with it. No. You know what I mean? Uh all right.
Uh Joe, what are you doing? I am going down to South Florida. Uh, sorry, I wasn't prepared to talk. Um, I'm going to South Florida. My father is still in the hospital, so we're going to have dinner in his room.
So good to see your dad. But excellent to see my dad. Yes. Give my sisters off. So they've been spending time with him down there.
So it's my turn. But my uh my wife and my son are going to Denver. Oh. So they're going to share their Thanksgiving with uh their very good friends, um, which should be nice. Um high altitude Thanksgiving.
Yeah, I'm a little nervous because my son's got asthma. So um uh yeah, lots of uh lots of barbuterol, I'm sure. Will the dryness help though? I hope. I hope.
I don't know. Uh I'm not sure. It's gonna be a whole new experiment. Speaking of visiting people, my uh my brother-in-law, his grandmother is still alive. She's a hundred and five, and every Thanksgiving they go and visit her.
Wow in the yeah, in her assisted living place. A hundred and five. Still sharp. Still sharp. That's amazing.
She's had like five friend groups all die off. I think no one wants to be friends with her. No one wants to be friends with her because they're like, oh, uh, that's a death warrant. You know what I mean? That's crazy.
She's like living in her own little blue zone, wherever she is. Yeah, I don't know what the hell. You know, somewhere in like, you know, off Hilton Head, South Carolina. All right. All right, here are some questions.
Uh anyone, we only have four minutes. We got all these questions to go to. Uh, chefs, weigh in, you know, Elizabeth John. Uh, positive MD. What are some good side dishes to pair with Porchetta?
Maybe something that could cut through the fat. Hurry, fast. Broccoli Rob. Oh, that's a good call. Broccoli Rob.
Do you pre-uh blanch it to get rid of the bitter or you straight broccoli robin? I like the butter. Do you like the bitter? But you gotta remember, some people don't like it. My wife doesn't like it.
Yeah. But you don't blanch it. No. What about you, Elizabeth? You blanch your broccoli broccoli?
Broccoli rub. I do. Yeah, I do. It depends on where how I'm cooking it. Um, but I was gonna say a really good accompaniment to that pocket would be a citrus and fennel salad.
Ooh, raw fennel shade, really thin, some orange, maybe a little bit of olive in there. And just olive oil. Keep it simple. Hey, you know what? Positive MD?
You could do both. You could do both. Those are not mutually exclusive. Uh I like a little, especially, well, I guess you're worried about creating the fat, but the but the thing about broccoli rob, it needs some nice olive oil on top. Otherwise, you're a jerk.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And a lot of lemon juice. Yeah.
Do you know what's delicious? And you can get it canned, fry relly. A good fryerly. Anyway, uh making Dave's stuffing from the Recipe Club podcast. He talks about doing the stuffing sous vide before finishing under the turkey.
Are there temps or either for both steps? Listen, don't sous vide it in the sense of putting it in a vacuum bag. I put it in a Ziploc bag. You don't want to compress the hell out of your stuffing. But what I'll what I do is I heat the plug in a zippy, and I do it.
You can do it a high temperature because stuffing can withstand a high temperature. So just whatever the maximum you're feel comfortable holding it, like 85 or something, but your bag will start degrading. So like ADC or something like this. And then I take my bird that I've ripped the backbone out of and I lay it over the plug and then I cook it out that way. That's that's the way you do it.
Just do not vacuum the stuffing. What do you got, John? For your uh stuffing. Um somebody was thinking about using impossible breakfast sausage in place of the pork, but would that be the wrong flavor profile? It's very good, but just like a meat breakfast sausage if you haven't had it before.
Is it sagey? I'm not sure it doesn't say it in my own. I use Joan's, like the the standard one is Joan's. So it's a sagey breakfast sausage. I'm sure it's fine.
The quite the answer is I'm sure it's fine. Uh although I don't know if you're if you're gonna be vegetarian, if you're gonna be vegan, I don't know how you get around the eggs. But whatever your egg replacer is. Arnie writes in longtime listener, first time interaction on Discord. I've been asked to barbecue.
This is an important one. I was like, so like here, we have two-minute whistle to deal with this. Ready, folks? Uh we've never had a reindeer question. I've been asked to barbecue a whole reindeer in Trimson, Norway, for the solstice.
I'm looking for advice, not a pro, and I will have to build whatever contraption is needed. I will have access to a metal workshop, welder, etc. And I do have experience with fabrication. I've made a rotisserie for lamb before, and I barbecued whole lamb a few times. Reindeer, though, are bigger.
I've requested a small calf, hopefully not more than about 30 uh kilograms, 55 pounds. Temperatures where I'm cooking can get as low as minus 15 C, but zero to five negative five is more likely, as this is the Arctic and the weather is unpredictable. I've lived there, so I know what to expect. Uh, and I know the best advice is don't do it. Reindeer are very lean, and the meat is not going to be forgiving if overcooked.
There's no way I can get a barbecue big enough. So I'll have to dig through the snow and make a fire directly on the ground. Personally, I think a better solution is to butcher the animal and barbecue the legs, uh ribs and neck and slow and do the backstraps and sirloins hot and fast, and I can also make a soup with a spinous grabs. I mean, you already know the correct answer, Arnie. That's the correct answer.
John Elizabeth, do you agree that that's the correct answer? Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. That's the correct answer.
I'm just trying to deal with the sacrophones right now. Yeah. I mean, look. Look, you could build a freaking yurt like over the area where you're gonna do it and have it be reflective on the inside. And it doesn't have to be shiny, shiny reflective, but like somewhat reflective.
And then you can at least capture a lot of the heat and keep the wind away and then rotisserie. But I think the problem is if the reindeer is really lean, it's not gonna be the best on a rotisserie unless you ready for it? Or go like old school and and barred that mother. Just barred the hell out of that thing. Like just like buy some back fat and just sew it through the lean meat, like left and right, up and down, but that's still not going to get the connective tissue in there that you would want to have in there to have it actually render out and be good.
Elizabeth, you got any thoughts now that you've uh cogitated a little bit on the whole I gotta cook a whole reindeer problem. Man, it's just like a big old venison, so I just think you're gonna need some fat with it. I would like probably just find a meat grinder and make some burgers instead. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna, or you know what? You could go old school, you could grind the meat back up, reform it into a reindeer, and then do that.
Oh, there you go. Yeah, anyway. Well, it depends on how listen, Arnie. I don't know when the solstice, when's the solstice? December 21st.
I don't know. I don't know. We'll figure it out. We're gonna we're gonna think of more advice. We'll get back to you guys.
Uh we got some more questions to come around next time. We have Steve Sando, I believe, on next week, uh talking about beans. Uh Elizabeth Faulkner, Heather, great to have you guys on. Enjoy your product, go look for it on uh reserve bar and happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Cooking issues.
Thank you. Thanks a lot. Happy Thanksgiving.
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