Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dan Studios. Joined as usual with John Across me. How are you doing? Doing great thanks.
Yeah, I got Joe rocking the panels. Joe Hazen, what's up? Hey, how are you? Welcome post uh Thanksgiving. Yeah, yeah.
We're gonna have to go through our you know, post-Thanksgiving either successes or traumas in a minute. Uh got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in her new home again, Los Angeles. How you doing? Good, how are you? Doing well, doing well.
Also in Los Angeles, I believe he's back is uh Jackie Molecules. How you doing, Jack Insley? Um all right, I'm back, yep. Yeah, and we have again this week from the upper upper left in Vancouver Island, Quinn. How you doing?
Hey, I'm all right. Good. And before we get too far into it, special guest on today's show, coming back for the second time, Steve Sando from Rancho Gordo Beans to talk about uh the Bean book, which uh I guess came out when? September? When is it?
Uh September 10th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. September 10th. Nice, nice.
Uh and by the way, for those of you that are keeping track, this is a different that you have you have, well, almost all of your books are on beans. I guess you did one strictly on Posole, which contains there's not even beans now, right? It's hominy. You so in other words, most of your books are bean-oriented, right? At this point, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And uh I have the great American novel in me. It's coming, but not right now. Well, is the would one of the characters be a bean or a bean grower? I mean, they already did the Malagro Beanfield War.
Remember the Malagro Beanfield War? Yeah. I don't know if that age well. Book Ed movie. Yeah, yeah.
I haven't uh I tried to read the book and I got bored to death, so I don't I don't know. Well, the movie is much, much shorter. It's only two hours or less even. But I can't I can't remember anything about it other than the name. And then when they came out with the tequila name milagro, I just used to call it Beanfield Wars, even though I couldn't remember anything about the show, and we never carried the tequiles.
So who knows? Who knows? I I have no idea. That's very funny. Uh anyway, so uh the Bean Book is different from, entirely different from different shape, different length, different text from the original heirloom bean book of 2009 or 2008 or whatever it was.
It's a different book. So if you already own the other book, don't think that you can get away with not getting the new book. Correct? No, when we did the new book, I said I want it to be the joy of cooking of beans and really something you keep forever. And heirloom beans, the first book was great, but uh this is definitely a has more gravity task, I think.
Wow, you're the Daniel Patterson of your own books. You're like, if you like the old book, you know, you you don't know anything. You gotta get the new book. Anyway, uh so uh anyone who know inside Chef joke. Uh but the um all right, so we'll get into that.
But to you know, here's the part of the show because it was just Thanksgiving. So let's say it's talk about uh did anyone do a non-bird-based Thanksgiving in the in the crew here? All birds. I was all bird, all bird, all bird. How do you I saw your bird?
I saw a picture of your bird, John. How how'd you do it? Uh spatchcocks, uh salt pepper, a couple of the seasonings, and then just on the grill. Yeah, good. Yeah, came out real well.
Okay. Yeah, not trying. Nice little smoke ring. Happy? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I didn't cook my bird this year, but I did tea too. I always do, I always do a T2. If I don't have Thanksgiving at my house, you did T2? Yeah, just leftovers.
You did your T2 before or T2 after? After. Yeah. I did it. Yeah, I did it on Sunday.
I just did, I didn't, I wasn't gonna do it because everyone who was coming over had already been at Thanksgiving. So I had a t I had a 22-pound turkey in my fridge. I bought the day freezer. You know, I got it frozen, put it in my fridge the day before Thanksgiving, Sunday, still frozen. Sunday still frozen.
And every year I'm like, I'm never again gonna bone a frozen freaking bird. And then here I was doing it, doing it again. I did my I did my typical bone the whole sucker out. This time though, by the way, Knipex or Knipex, however you pronounce it, the cobra pliers, not the ones I normally use, the plier wrench, they're smooth, but the cobras which have the serrated thing are much better than vice grips for pulling leg tendons because they don't snap shut each time, but they their their grip is immense. So you can so like I just sit there and most of the time my my uh pointer and my thumb are good enough to hold on to the meat section, and then the cobras like uh grip grip onto the tendon, rap.
I rip the pin bone, you know, the feather bones, whatever you call them, the tend the you know, calcified tendons out, and that's the real money so that you can eat the you can eat the leg. And then also if you if you butterfly out the legs, right, then they cook to a higher temperature, but basically at the same time as the breast. So it's big money, big money. And I did my standard where I made the big plug of my mom's stuffing, put it in the ANOVA, steamed it until it was cooked through, and then draped the bird over and crisp it up. So money, big money, cash money.
Yeah. Yep, now I have leftovers. And so much gravy. People who don't bone their turkeys. What do they how do you make gravy?
Yeah. How do you make gravy? Where's your gravy coming from? Are you buying a bunch of necks? What are you doing?
You buying gravy in a box? What are you doing? Anyway, uh, what about you guys? Well, what do you what do you do, Steve? It's non-traditional.
And I uh made it's called aquacolta. It's a Buscan seafood stew. My friends and I all work in the food service, so everything's leading up to Thanksgiving to the point where we're totally burnt out. It was just the three of us uh healing instead of uh indulging in Thanksgiving. Ended up being very fun, but uh and I love turkey.
I have nothing against Thanksgiving food. It just we were so sick of Thanksgiving by the time it actually came. They're they run the fatted cap, which is a circuterie company here in Northern California, and uh everything was about getting people their turkeys. Um we were all just burnt out. Yeah, so for the record, I'm marking Steve Stando Sando down as a Thanksgiving hater and a turkey hater.
No, I'm just kidding. I'm necessarily and I love turkey, I really do, but I just I also it there's something about the pressure. It's like when you go to New Orleans, you have to have a good time, and you end up having a good time, but that pressure. I don't care. I'm sort of when I'm when it's obligated to feel something, I tend to be a rebel.
Yeah, and you know who doesn't have a good time in New Orleans? Nastasi the hammer Lopez. Only person ever goes there is like, nope. Oh, never going back. True or false, Doz.
I went last year with Peter Kennedy. Oh, that's right. And did you have a good time that time? I did. Oh, nice.
So I think it's just the company when you were with me. They've made it bad. Yeah. Uh all right. Uh by the way, was that seafood stew?
I can't remember the exact uh variant of uh the seafood stew with beans that you have in the book, but was it that one? No, there are no beans. So it was uh rebel, you know, just double rebelin' large with double rebel. Exactly. So since you come from the land of my favorite seafood uh, you know, tomato-based seafood stew, which is the Chipino, like how does it compare to to that?
I uh my friends had got some cod that they caught, and I had frozen wild shrimp, so I only had cotton shrimp. Where I think Chipino, you really have to work a little harder, and there's crab and it's a little more interesting with the food. But I really wanted to do what I had on hand and had frozen fish that my friend caught and frozen wild shrimp. So I'm not very inspired, but it was delicious. All right.
And uh Stas, how was your uh how was at your parents' house? How how dry was the turkey this year on a scale of of rocks to dust? Where were you? Dust. Every year I'm like, Stas, what are you gonna do?
She's like, I'm gonna have the dry, dry turkey. My dad was like, have to take it out at 165. And I was like, Okay, it's been in for three hours. Can I check it? And he's like, It's got two more hours to go.
And I was like, Can I just check it? And so I checked and it and it was 220, and I was like, pull it out. Excuse me. Oh Jesus. Oh my god.
Oh my god. So like literally, like when you're slicing it, does it just fall into crumbles? Is it like is it like turkey floss at that point? Like what's going on? You just like you wrestle with it.
It was so bad. Like it can't buy like the 25-pound turkey, and there's you know, three of us. So it's it's yeah. Can can mayonnaise save it on a sandwich? Could gravy save it on the plate?
That's my favorite part is the next day we make this like uh a green onion mayonnaise, and it's great. Oh, green onion mayonnaise. Like you you blend, you chop them fine and mix them in, or you blend them in so that the whole thing gets kind of like a greenish tone. You blend in garlic and green onion and mayonnaise, and then there you go. I like that.
Yeah. I like that. You know what uh so we have a little bit of contention in my house. Jen prefers the hot open face sandwich with the gravy, and I'm a cold turkey lettuce tomato mayonnaise pepper guy mustard. Anyway, uh Jack, what about you?
What was your uh Thanksgiving like in uh at your brother's house who couldn't care less about Thanksgiving yet invites you to fly across the country to enjoy rotisserie chicken from the supermarket? Wow. I'm just saying, hey, he he cares. It's just you know, he works a lot and have kids kids. Okay, yeah, all right, whatever.
However, it's good, you know. It worked out. It worked out. Did you make or bring anything or buy anything or what? No, no, it it's it's yeah, Thanksgiving's gotten a little tricky uh for my family, but um it worked out.
So get this on the day of Thanksgiving, I was going to my my brother and sister's house, my brother-in-law and sister's house, but I forgot to get dog food, so I needed dog food, so I had to go to the store. Once door was open in the neighborhood. Literally, everyone who walked into the store felt compelled to say out loud to nobody in particular, just getting a few last minute things. I'm like, you don't need to tell it. We're at a store.
I don't care what you're getting. You don't need to say this. You know what I mean? It's like, but everyone was like, you know, I'm not that guy, last minute chopper. I just need a few last minute things.
I'm like, all right, my guy. All right. You are that last minute chopper, though. Yeah. I mean, I'm I didn't say anything about it.
I know I am. I'm like, I'm getting some dog food. You know what I mean? Have to get the fine fairy dog food, probably get my dog sick. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
Anyway. Uh I know Quinn that uh you guys have a different Thanksgiving because Canada, but did you uh do anything? Did you do anything uh to mark the day? Uh no, I was just enjoying the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right. All right. All right. So uh nothing else happened besides uh Thanksgiving and the week uh week's festivities for food, right? That we need to get into not much.
No? No. No. All right. Uh so I brought with me on the day after Thanksgiving, only John and Joe can taste this.
But like I've said on the air many times that I love uh a Virginia peanut. Yeah, legume, but by the way, one of the few legumes that uh even though boiled peanuts is kind of like a bean, you you never really have like a bunch of like soft, you know, you never eat like a big bowl of shelled boiled peanuts. You know what I mean? True. What do you think?
Do you think it's because they don't have a skin, Steve? Because they break in half? Why? Why do you think? I had boiled peanuts once, and I thought frog was gonna come out of it.
It is the murkiest, most unattractive brew. Yeah, I don't understand them. You have to kind of like wrap your mind around them to love them. You would never associate them with you would never associate them with like that bean life. You know what I mean?
And I guess they kind of grow or pleasure. Yeah. They're a ground. I mean, they're not they're not really like all the beans that we eat kind of grow above ground, and these are kind of like earth beans, right? So I guess they are different in that respect.
Very, yeah. But anyway, so uh I've said this on the air many times, but Virginia peanuts, even though I've been told by people who that they don't only grow in Virginia, and that's the variety, they're God's peanut. And I went back to the store where I originally bought them, told the guy at the counter the story where the guy where I complained, I asked about the price, and he took it as a complaint and told me not to buy them, which made me buy them. And the guy today was like, Well, I don't know why he told you that. He should have told you to buy them anyway.
But I brought some so that other people could also see whether or not they agree that this is God's peanut. Of course, I buy plain salted because you know, like you are, Steve, with your beans, you don't need a lot of like weird flavors on top of your peanuts, do you? You don't need like all kinds, I mean, like not that I dislike a weird flavor on top of a peanut, but if you really want to enjoy the best peanut you can buy, why would you gussy it too much? People tend to gussy things too much. You know what I mean?
Yeah. These are good, it's a good peanut, right? Very good peanut. They're afraid of their taste. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. This is you think that's it. You think people are afraid that like there's gonna be too plain and they can't just rely on the ingredient they've bought, and that's why they gussy things up too much. Well, I think especially if you're a novice.
I'm in general, which is weird because I'm usually all like tech out. I'm usually anti-gussy on ingredients, which freaks people out when they come to like work at the bar and they want to put like a billion ingredients into a drink, and I'm like, how about like how about like three? I mean how like three, but you work real hard on it. How about that? Uh all right.
So let's talk about this let's talk about this book oh well I have a question it should we do the listener question by the way Patreon people people who listen to this show or heard you on your last appearance will will remember famously that Steve Sando has never once not once entire life been in the business over two decades never once provided a discount on a bag of beans not once because that's so fun I can't remember that but yeah still true yeah yeah because what the hell buy the beans you know what I mean like you'll discount other things but not the beans you know what I mean anyway uh so I don't know what made me think of that oh yeah I know what made you think that so Patreon listeners aren't gonna get a discount on Rancho Gordo beans however uh Quinn did we set up for the book on Kitchen Arts and Letters we sure did yeah so uh Patreon listeners can get a discount on uh the bean book with uh how was uh how do you like working with authors by the way is it uh with uh uh with writers to help you out do you enjoy that or dis disenjoy that me yeah Steve yeah yeah uh I love writers no no we've uh I love that and Kitchen Arts and Letters is one of my favorite places on the planet so I love that you did that as it should as it should be we need to get Matt back on for like a holiday shipping a holiday you know whatever buying things especially while it's still time to ship yeah uh yeah because uh Steve uh the person you wrote this with is uh Julia Newberry you've did several books with her right all right well she's actually the general manager at Rancho Gordo. Really? Her background with with cookbooks before she started with us. And she's uh young mother with two, you know, school-aged kids. So it's uh she's a natural.
And I tend to be simpler, like you, and I think, why do you need a recipe book? Just fuck up and shut up. But she's like, no, no, we need recipes. And so we together work we work really well together. Well, the interesting thing about this book, uh, specifically on recipes, is that while you do have a lot of recipes that appear to, you know, come from you know, you and like Rancho Gora life, you also have a whole bunch of recipes from like your buddies and well-known people, or even people that you might not like uh hang out with personally, but have had whose recipes have had an impact on your life or that you know, the you know, use your beans.
And so I think that's kind of really interesting that you have a very wide scope of recipes, more than you would get if they come strictly from like one or two people's heads. Does that make sense? Total sense, and I am absolutely adamant that what I'm doing is the best way to do everything for everybody, but when you get these different perspectives, and you just like, oh, maybe I'm not quite so now stuff, but yeah. I have my specific way of doing it, and it's just great having other people come in and say, you know, this isn't always the best way, right? So the best way for me.
Bone to pick. I'm gonna pick it right now. I know that you said again last time that you are not a fan in general of uh new England style baked beans, right? It's fine, it's fine, right? But in the your recipe, he knows my silence, yeah.
Fine, it's fine. In your recipe for and a little back of the hand on the famous beans that are used for you're like, eh, you're like, you know, whatever, yellow eye, it's fine, it's good, good canvas for a ham hock. Okay, okay. You know, insult taken, gauntlet throne, fine. But uh you just say molasses, and there's no such thing as just molasses.
And 99% of the people are gonna buy the wrong molasses. They're gonna buy trash can molasses. I mean, I'm gonna get in trouble for calling tracking. Yeah, yeah. I accept your criticism.
And it's I I should delve deeper into it, but every time I have, it's like I don't get it. This is so much work for a dish that doesn't pay off. Fair. I don't dislike it, but it's like, huh, that seems like you have these beautiful fresh beans, and then you put molasses or syrup or something in it that's gonna stop them from cooking because you want to cook it for a really long time. And I think the whole point is you cook it while you're out, chopping down maple trees or something.
I don't know why you do it. Well, they cook them for like eight hours. Like, but I usually they they're usually par cooked, right? So you parcook them, yeah, and then I add dry, I add dry mustard powder because I don't want to add any acid. And then I add the sugars, I like the molasses early, and then when they are, you know, just about done, then I'll add a little acid to arrest them and then throw them in a low in a low oven forever, yeah, for like four or more hours or something like this, four or five hours.
You can do it too long, like 12 hours, too much. Too much. But hey, I'm old, I don't have all that extra time anymore. You know, like there's other dishes. Yeah, bake baked beans for me, are uh I get up in the morning and before I you know take the dogs out, I start it, and then like it's done at dinner time.
You know what I mean? Like I just sits around in my pot. By the way, I just bought, I know that you're a uh a low-fired uh lachamba pot fan, and I had never owned one, got one on the eBay, enjoy it. I enjoy it. It's really fun.
And then unfortunately, it's a gateway drug. There's then you every time you travel now, you're gonna discover clay pots from other countries. And every major cuisine knows you cook beans in clay pots. The French, the Italians, the Mexicans in the Middle East. It's it's really fun.
It's just it's kind of a drag bringing it back on a plane. Yeah, I I have space for the one. I have my I have my New England bean pot, and then I have my lachamba, and then like I don't have any more room for anything, or I'll get in trouble. You know what I mean? Like I got a two-quart, which is good for one pound, if they're par cooked, and then I got you know, my lachamba is the 375 bean pot.
Anyway, whatever. But like, but what's interesting to me, and you mentioned it in the book, is that it's very counterintuitive that like uh high-fired ceramics like stoneware, ironware are much tougher in terms of like taking abuse, but also less tough when it comes to like uh putting on a flame. So you want the low-fired, quote unquote, you know, more fragile item goes on the flame, whereas the stronger one will break. It's it's weird, right? It is weird, and it's you can imagine breaking the ceramic, and if it's white, you shouldn't even really be cooking with it necessarily, because it's just so high fired that it won't take the heat.
Yeah, yeah, which is strange. It's odd anyway. But the the lachambas, the lachambas uh are nice. Okay, here is a question. Oh, by the way, I think I asked you this last time.
I don't remember what you said, but I'm gonna ask you again. Liver mess with like, and again, I know you're not an East Coast bean guy, but you ever mess with like Marfax? I really think Marfax is an interesting bean. It's one of those main beans that has a weird texture. It's very firm bean, even when it's cooked.
Hmm. I've heard of it, but no. There, you know, we're we do, I think right now, 35 varieties. So there are just hundreds more that we could be pursuing. And I'm not really a business person or even an ag person or even a chef.
So I don't know why I'm on the show, but I do think if it doesn't interest me, I've had a hard time with it. So I definitely will try those. But I've had people say, Oh, you need to try this bean. And if I don't have a personal connection, it's really hard for me to stomach. And I love our beans.
They're like my children. So that's easier. But I will look in for more. Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying you're gonna texture. I'm not saying you're gonna love it.
I'm just saying it's uh like a hyper regional bean that like doesn't leave its kind of area. You know what I mean? Like uh love that yeah. Speaking of uh beans, so I buy your beans because uh I like to buy I still like to buy things in person, food, especially, you know what I mean? So I get your beans at Essex Formaggio uh on Essex Street, strangely in uh lower Manhattan.
And uh I asked them because going in in the book, you mentioned again and you'd mentioned them before the eye of the goat beans, the ojo de cabra as being like you know, kind of like the Jesus bean broth. It's like the you know, so good, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, yo, I've never seen you carry these things. And he's like, yo, we haven't carried them in years. I even look at his catalog, and we can never get them.
So are they gonna exist again? Or these only go to like, you know, trusted friends and relatives out there on the on your coast. Yes, they we will have them again. We in fact had probably three bad years of crop failure, but we finally realized it's probably our seed stock. So we pulled some and we're creating new seed stock from that to do well, but we also in the meantime found some in Italy.
Um not called that. Uh but like this is eye of the goat. This is great. So we actually grew them, but they're slightly different. They're just as delicious, but they are slightly different.
So we're marketing this as Occhio della Capra. So eye of the goat, but in Italian. Oh, I see. And those are actually on the website right now. We don't have enough to offer wholesale yet.
We're working on it. All right. So I can't get them in Essex Four Maggio yet, but but look out someday. No, someday I'll be able to get them. All right.
Well, someday. And probably the true eye of the goat, not this Italian variant. But for now on the website, we have the Italian. Eye of the Goat would not have been as good a song for Rocky III. Do you agree?
Not have been as good. No, I think I'd finally go see the movie. Yeah. I uh you never went to see that movie. You never went to see that movie?
I don't want to I've been in my own little Ethel Merman bubble. I love Ethel Merman unironically. I mean listen, no, I'm not you don't know me that well, but Nastasia can attest it every once in a while. I'll break out into there's no business like show business doing the full Ethel Merman. True or false, does Yeah.
I mean, there was a time in like two thousand eight or nine where we were trying to set you up for um Broadway casting stuff. Yeah, to be like, you know, an Ethel Merman impersonator. But it's like, I mean, her voice is iconic, you know what I mean? Like she defines the belt, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, look at that.
Yeah, no. Oh my god, everything's coming up, roses. Oh my god. Come on, do it. No, I'm not gonna do it.
Not gonna do it. Come on. No, old and out of shape. Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it.
Anyway, uh, we all know that she's great. Although you know what's funny? Like, like I guarantee you that there is a bunch of people in their 20s who are like, Well, who's Ethel Merman? And I'm like, and and they're like, but that's before my time. It's like, but I say this all the time.
We knew so many people who were from before our time. Ethel Merman was before our time. You know what I mean? We still know who she was. Away before.
The 30s started. Um, If they ran Ranch Agord is the same thing, or I'll quote some Joan Crawford or Betty Davis line just because I like to do that. And they're like, who's that? Oh my or Valley of the Dolls, even. Oh, yeah.
Like, I can do a couple of the scenes in that on the kids today. Wasn't that written by Ebert? Didn't Ebert write that? He wrote, I can't believe I know that he wrote Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, the Myers. Yeah, yeah.
Nice. Yeah. Nice. Uh all right, back to beans. Back to beans.
Oh, by the way, before we get back to the question, uh, so one thing that they did have at the and I encourage people to buy it now. Every year I wait till it's too late, not this year. If you're so in my family, we don't do lentils at New Year's. We do, do you do lentils, Joe? I look from the look in your face that you look like a lentils family.
You do it with cotaquino or no cotaquino? Just lentils. All right, lentils for money. Got it. We are black-eyed peas in my family.
Where do you do the black-eyed peas? What about what about you, John? Will you eat lentils? Lentils, stars, Jack. What about you?
You being on being on New Year's cruise? Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, if if possible. And what do you which which you black eye? You're a black eye guy? Yeah.
Yeah. Nice. Quinn, I know you have a theory on this one. Do you gotta go lentil? I bet you go lentil.
Yeah, yeah. My dad, my dad heard that side of the family that definitely does lentil. Have you do you do the cotaquino or no? Uh wait, is that the sausage? Yeah.
That you cook in with the lentils. Okay. Get your dad. I don't think we get a specific. We've got to go specifically.
Come on, man. You're Mr. Specific. How about this? What about this year?
Try. Have you ever done Zamponi? Describe it. Okay, so here's what you do. You have to get you have to get from a real butcher.
You can't just go to a store. You get from a real butcher, a pig's trotter, like whole, like all the way up to like the elbow joint, right? And then you keep the skin kind of together and you remove all of the meat out of it, right? The bones and everything, and then you stuff it with cotechino mix, and then you sew it shut. You're supposed to age it for a little while, right?
And then you boil it and then you serve that with the lentils. Zampone. It's good. Not Zamboni, not Zamboni, Zampone. Anyway, so like uh, but that's like classic.
I've only done it a couple of times. I had an Italian chef who uh we used to, he came over and did a residency at the French Culinary Institute, and man, he taught me how to sew one up. It was fantastic. Anyway, black-eyed peas. So, what I would recommend to anyone listening who is a black-eyed pea person, go get your rancho gordo lucky 2025 black uh black-eyed peas now, because I'm assuming they're gonna sell out.
Even like garbage can I shouldn't say even like commodity black-eyed peas sell out at my local supermarket like before New Year's. You know what I'm saying? And by the way, a commodity black-eyed pea is still good. Can I just say that? A commodity black eyed is still good.
Still very good. They're delicious, especially once I do what I'm gonna do to them. Yep. Know what I do for New Year's Eve? What do you do?
I invite Peter Kim out to LA and he stays in Jack's house and makes a mess. I like that. So he like grinds black-eyed peas into into Jack's couch. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, didn't he didn't he one year didn't he one year like buy you some cleaning supplies so that you could clean up the mess he made and leave them there?
That didn't happen to be. Chateau Diane. Oh my god, Chateau Diane. I can't even believe they sell that stuff in California because you can buy real wine in a liquor store there. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I mean in a grocery store. Yeah. There's a wine anywhere. There's a whole, you know, for those who live in New York, there's a whole subset of don't live in New York. In New York, there's you you can't buy real wine.
You can buy beer here in a grocery store, but you can't buy wine or liquor. And so there's a whole set of like fake wine that's you know, wine plus water and sugar, whatever it is. And the one that I always see at the checkout is Chateau Diane. You know what I mean? It's a step down from Boone's wine, if you uh remember Boone's wine.
Uh anyways. Nice. Um anyway, are you gonna sell out of them black-eyed peas? Probably, right? Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. And uh some of you the screws taking this too casually. I think a a nation is counting on you to eat black-eyed peas on January 1st. I think we do. Some of you haven't been doing your part, is all I can say.
So they're delicious. And I think if you had black-eyed peas, it's for good luck, but then you have collarine range or literally money, which isn't as altruistic, but they're both important, I think. Yeah, yeah. Uh the so black-eyed peas are uh okay, so you but we'll go through this. Like you what's there's the different genuses of beans, right?
So like there's the like uh you know, our side of the world, beans, way you know, I hate to say what what's the correct way to say new world nowadays? Western hemisphere beans? Indigenous to the Americas. All right, right. Indigenous to the Americans.
Right, the whole the whole phaseolis Megilla, right? And then you got your your favas, you got your uh you got your your vinas, which are like black-eyed peas, lentils, mung, red beans, all that, and then you got your your chickpeas over there on the uh on the kind of African, Asian European side. But your heart is in the American beans, correct? Yes, I would say so. But I have a weird love of uh garbanzos, chickpeas, and then I've just discovered lentils that are there's if I can rant a bit.
There's this area in Germany that had really crummy soil, so all they could grow were lentils, and they had an indigenous lentil that was doing really well. Indigenous, I mean an adapted lentil. And then once the soil got better, they cut the lentil production, and they these lentils were lost. Well, now a group is growing them again, and they're the most delicious lentils. We're gonna look into importing them because it's saving this tradition that really was about to die and just say probably with home uh gardeners.
What's the name of the lentil? Now they're doing this production. It's German, so I don't know. Lentilhagen, I don't know. Sorry, that's so rude.
I don't know. And so what's the what's the difference between this lentil and a regular lentils are nice in that they cook so quickly. You know what I mean? It's refreshing if we're cooking beans. Yeah.
It's like, oh, I can just do this without even thinking about it. They're really tiny, so they probably are closer to wild lentils, and they're uh brown, black, and yellow, and they're just beautiful earthy mix. Oh, they come and they come really fun. In a mixed color? They come in a mixed color.
Yeah, naturally, yeah. Who knew? Who knew the German colours? Exactly. And when I first started, you know, we do most of our production in California, quite proudly, but we do do some in Mexico.
And when I was meeting with my friends who now become best friends, I think, are there any heirloom beans around here? Oh no, no, no, there's they're all gone. And it was the mother who said, No, there's one in the village, and now they're experts. So sometimes the stuff is right under our nose and we take it for granted and don't even know. But just like with clay pot cooking, I think they're being growing traditions almost everywhere because they're easy to grow.
You know, the goal was cheap protein for poor people, but the reality is they're delicious and healthy and green. So everybody wins. So a couple of decades ago when you were first getting the heirloom stuff, how important were like the William Moyce weavers of the world and that kind of generation of folks with their seed saving. Well for me, it was very romantic. And even though I had no ag background, I just started growing.
And uh they were the ones who saved these seeds. It wasn't commercial companies because they as I go on about how much I love my heirloomes, there's a place for cheap commodity beans. It's uh I don't I don't regrudge them that, but there's also room at the table for something kind of more high end. So when I started growing these and eating them, and it's because of these home gardeners and those guys who saved them. The first time I ate them, it's like, well, these are like pictures, but there's something else going on here.
And it for me it was very exciting. So home gardening is what saved a lot of this. And seed savers was really where I was starting to get most of my stuff. And there's a company called Native Seeds Search in uh Tucson also that I did. But really savers that for home growers, how's Baker's Creek?
Do you sell, by the way, do you sell seed stock or not? Well, beans are seeds, so you can actually take any of our beans from any of them. We don't do anything to prohibit it. So they're actually a real cheap way of getting beans. Um and Baker's Creek's great.
I buy stuff from them. If they have something we don't have, I have a plot here where I'm growing things mostly from beans that I've bought in travels. Uh and you can legally bring beans into the country when you're traveling. You can you should declare them because if they find them, they don't like that, but not corn, but beans are safe. So uh yeah, I I buy them.
Now, commercially versus at home, like how many, like how big of a plot do I need to plant to get a pound of beans? Like how big how big is the chunk of dirt that a pound of beans comes out of. Um, well, this is why I'm not nervous about people putting me out of business. Because it's you were you need a lot, and you'll get one pot of beans at the end of the season. So that's kind of like, huh, that's a lot of work.
So, but it's really fun to do, and beans are easy to grow. And if you have kids, there is nothing like putting them in the ground and watering them. And in less than a week, usually you see the starch come up. And kids are just enchanted with that, and it gets them uh they're more likely to eat them if they've grown them. And you can eat them at different stages.
So there's a flower that comes, and you can actually eat the flower. There's a little minuscule bean. But once it's big enough, you can eat it as a green bean. And although it is a string beans, you have to destring it. And then you can uh let it go further into a shelling bean, and that's when it's still uh moist.
But that for me that's all insan to suck a little bit. Well, hold on. Even even with limas, limas is a shelling bean. Oh my god, come on. Limas as a shelling bean?
Yeah, no, no, no. I I'm being silly, they're all delicious jelly beans. Yeah, but I think they develop better flavor once they've been dried. I mean, not everyone will agree with me, but I grew up with frozen lima beans in that can't that medley of horrible vegetables that were frozen. And I thought I hated lima beans my whole life, and then I had real ones.
Uh for me, they were dried and recooked. It's like, oh wait, I don't hate lima beans. But I was very invested in hating lima beans. You know, I have no southern. I think every everybody is succotash is straight delicious.
If the limas are good and the corn is good, I mean, it doesn't get much better than such ash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, speaking of corn, you have a corn stalk.
How does that taste? So what he does, he just cuts the corn off, saves the kernels for something else, perhaps succotash, perhaps. And then uh and then just boils the cobs. Yeah. I've never done that.
Good move. It's good, tastes good. Yeah. Get a lot of flavor out of it. Yeah.
Okay. Is it because of this kernel that's left on the crab? I mean say it again. Well, this usually when you're cut, there's sort of it's sort of milky. So there still is stuff left on that cob.
And I know in Mexico, they actually take the silk and make stock out of that and give it to mothers who are nursing. And somehow that is a good thing. Yeah. Since I'm past that point in my life, how does it taste? Well, it tastes like corn.
So it's definitely not for every dish, but it's delicious. Yeah. Uh wait, what are we talking about? Oh, sorry. So if I plant, I I don't because I don't have any outdoor space, but if I did 10 by 10 feet of beans, I get one pot.
You think that's like that's like a pound? You might get two or three, yeah. Yeah, it's rough. But you know, it's rough, yeah. But it's why I don't I encourage people to do it because I know it's a harm in the log.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I planted. Yeah. Um, have you experimented? Are there any of your beans that are particularly good just sprouted, like uh bean spruits?
Or do they sort of taste similar? Uh yeah, I have had people who want to sprout our beans, and I don't want to discourage anybody, but two on one, they all come back and say, they're not that much different. So I would use probably good quality new new crop commodity beans if you were gonna do any quantity. But there's a woman just curious a couple in Oakland, we started something called shared cultures, and they're actually making miso out of our beans, and that does seem to make a difference. So that's kind of exciting.
That's some expensive miso right there. I mean I think time is more expensive than making leaf though. I mean, commodity soy commodity soy is cheap. Cheap. Uh, what's the recipe you have in the book that's not miso related, but reminded me because I love barley miso, but it's oh, it's your it's the bean burgers have a bunch of cooked barley in it.
What's the function of the cooked barley in the bean burger? Just another binder. Yeah, I think, and it's healthy and it's easy enough to get. I so that's from a local pub here in Napa called Norman Rose. And I've had many, many bean burgers, and people said, Oh, I hope you have a great bean burger recipe.
But I'm much like celebrating traditional Thanksgiving or seeing Rocky 3 or whatever the which we're like, eh. I don't I the obsession with the burger shape is a little beyond me. And these are perfectly delicious. I've had them there and we cook them, but I'm not obsessed with I don't understand why we need things shaped like burgers. Have you been to Superiority Burger in uh Manhattan?
No, but they buy a lot from us. They're a great. And we uh during COVID, when they were in trouble, we helped with their fundraising because uh I I just love what they're doing. Well is it good? Very good.
If you ever come out, you should go to Superiority Burger. They do they do a good job. So for sure. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Uh offhand comment you made in the book that I don't understand. You like air circulating in in in your pots when you're cooking beans. What do you think the function of that is? I'm a firm believer in more water than you think, which is why I think the the pressure cooker, because it doesn't reduce. I think beans need some reduction in in uh liquid as they're being cooked, but like why do you think you need air at the top?
That's kind of struck me as I didn't understand. Well, because you're more you're more science based, and I'm an emotional truck. I don't know. I just noticed they need there's something about the air that's really nice. And but I always cook my beans either a jar or at some point without the lid.
Because I think you're right, the reduction is more important than anything. I've seen people fill the pot up to the brim with liquid and beans, and I just it makes me nervous because the beans could boil over easily if you weren't paying attention. And I just it should be in my head, based not on science, three-quarters product, beans and water, and then at least a quarter for the air. But that's not based on anything. Yeah, I mean, I always give myself some room on the initial boil, but I'm usually transferring to a bean, I'm usually potting and then into a bean pot.
Anyway, whatever. Just question the other thing is like it is true you say don't worry about adding. I I totally agree with this. Like it doesn't matter whether the water is hot that you add or not, it's just gonna take a little longer to cook. That's for sure true.
Uh although, you know, the one thing that you're gonna say is is like you do add your salt after they're mostly cooked, because you're kind of worried about it. I I always add my salt straight at the beginning. A pound of beans takes between 10 and 12 grams of salt, depending on all the other adjuncts, like how much onions and other crap you add to it. So you can safely add 10 grams of salt to to a pound of beans and not worry at all. No matter how dry it goes, you're gonna have to add a little more salt by the end.
You know what I mean? So like I always just add 10 grams of salt right at the beginning in the soaking water. Another thing, he's like uh I love how in the book you like you like don't want to get into it. You're like throw away the soaking water, keep the soaking water, whatever. People have different opinions on the but I will say we measured it once.
We uh did a a project at at Harvard and we measured it, and very little of the FODMAP Farty principles end up in the soaking water. So might as well, might as well use it. You know what I mean? Also, very little's leached out. So if you throw it away, it's also not that big a deal.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Harold McGee in on food and cooking talks about that. And he's like, it's so minimal that uh you think you're doing something. But I think again, some people really want to pretend that they're helping.
Yeah. They think, okay, I'll change the water and I'm cooking with it. So but I people are very adamant. And I think part of it is a lot of home cooks think, well, I can't cook beans. They're really hard, and I can just buy the can, that's fine.
And to they finally do it and they have success, it's that this is the way it has to be done. And so you'll find being people are very adamant that their way is a way to do it. But a lot of roads think it's the roam. So you just smile and say, oh, good for you. That's good.
I'm happy that work. And but they're very adamant. But martini drinkers are the same way. Like how you make it martini. Yes, yes, they are.
Yes, they are. Uh the um, well, you know, I I did a bunch of side-by-sides, and uh it's canned beans are an interesting problem, right? Because they need to get almost all of their absorption in before they go in the can because they need to fill the can. The can needs to be full when it's done, right? So I forget I used to know exactly what the process is, but you if you side by side beans from a can versus beans that you cook fresh, even if you just use salt and water, no aromatics, no nothing, the beans that you cook fresh are so much better.
Like, you know what I mean? Like just like straight up. Yeah. And a r and a rinsed can be. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, but you have all that free soup when you make them yourself, too, whereas with the can you need to rinse them. Yeah, I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start maybe cooking a little wetter. Because I usually cook it wet and then I reduce it down to like almost like very thick syrupy stuff.
But you seem to be a big fan of leaving the broth relatively thin, draining it and using it for another application. Maybe I'll try that. And rice, you've never made better rice, especially when you use bean broth and water. So bean broth itself is a little too much, but you cut it in half. And it's it's I have lots of it in my freezer that I've saved because and use it.
Well, I'm gonna try it. But we have a caller calling in. Caller, you're on the air. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Josh from Norfolk.
Hey, how you doing? Doing well. Um, so first off, I just want to say, Steve, the Scarlet Runner is a life-changing bean. So thank you for bringing that into my life. Uh thank you.
And then on the topic of you know, soaking water and stuff like this. Uh I appreciate that it doesn't matter either way. But should beans be rinsed just from like a food safety perspective, like you would do with rice. Oh gosh, yes. And they should actually, even though ours are triple cleaned, and it's pretty rare you'd find any debris.
Most of the cleaning happens in the field. That's why you get little pebbles or dirt clots. So you definitely should rinse them and check through them, even if they're ours or someone you trust. It's uh there's nothing worse than getting a dirt clot. It's pretty rare, but it's not good.
But you do want to rinse them. And also, we've had uh iliacs, you know, people who can't have um any gluten, you know, really thrilled that they can buy beans because you rinse them. So even if they were stored in wheat, if you you have to rinse them well enough that you would not have any of the left left over stuff. But yes, no, definitely do rinse them, is what I would say. Okay, awesome.
I agree. I agree. And by the way, right a dirt cloud, correct me if I'm wrong, Steve, but it's gonna be about the size of a bean because it means it's gone through the classifier. Yes. Yeah.
Yes. No, for sure. And I one thing I was gonna say about the Scarlet Runners, what's so cool is we know that those are from Oaxaca. They were one of the Mexico, and they were one of the first cultivated plants. So it's Spasiolus vicinias, and it was cultivated.
And when the Spanish came, they were sort of shocked at how they were growing this bean. And the Mesoamericans were really advanced as far as uh agriculture. So it's kind of a it's kind of a fun one. And I think it's a gateway for people who love meat, it's sort of beefy, I think. So it's if you're trying to cut back, I think this garlot runners, the ayacote, any of those runner beans are great um meat substitutes.
But I'm not saying whether you should or not, that's up to you. I don't want to get preciated by meat. Is there any general difference between runner beans and com and common beans on in terms of like uh skin thickness or flavor or use or or no? Is it just variety by variety? Oh no, they're well, they're very different.
They tend to be bigger. They uh and when you're growing them, pole bean, you know, has tendrils that wrap around naturally. The runner beans need a little help if you want to stake them, although they do have long runner shoots, but they tend to be bigger, they tend to have thicker skins, and they are ready at one point, and they're really nice, and they're sort of like a rusted potato, but then you push them just a little further and suddenly they taste like dairy. They're amazing. And they all tend to have pretty good broths.
I can't think of a thinner skinned runner bean off the top of my head, but it it's really a great variety. But they do need a little cooking. And I don't generally soak, but if it was Sunday morning and I knew I wanted beans, as soon as I wake up and make coffee, I probably would put the beans on the soap and let them soak for an hour or two before I was going just to be sure. Right, because the b the big, big big ones with the thicker skins, sometimes like cooking them without soaking them, the skins just blast off even before they get al dante, right? Like they just like it's weird, like they differentially inflate, and then I don't know, they freak me out.
And then you see these beautiful beans like all busted open, makes me sad. Looks for you have a fabulous broth now. It's probably even richer. Uh all right, we have a question and wait, Josh, you got more. Is Josh still on the phone?
No? All right. All right, well, all right. So WTS has a question. I'm currently reading through the bean book.
One of the early sections that caught my attention is titled Bean Cooking Strategies, page 28. It suggests cooking a bot uh cooking a pot of beans on a Sunday and then continually adapting and incorporating beans into different dishes throughout the week. As someone who is often cooking for one person, this approach to beans is really attractive. I'm curious uh if you, Steve, have any additional bean strategies to share. Any tips for maximum variety, or is there a type of bean that really shines with this cook it once, use it several times approach?
Well, I live alone most of the time, but I host a lot, but I tend to do half a pound. And even though it takes a long time, a half a pound is about the route amount right amount. Um, no, I think you could do this with any bean, and you know, sometimes I'll do uh garbanzas. I wouldn't bother with lentils or peas because they cook so fast. But you just to me, the best recipe of all is a bowl of freshly made beans with some chopped white onion or red onion, um, squeeze a lime, and then a drizzle of your best olive oil and but off, that's it.
So that's what you do the first night. But then the next day you're working and you're kind of upset and harried, and you just like, oh, I'm just gonna make a salad, and you throw some bean in there. Then the next day you have some beans and you think, oh, look, pasta fiddle, we're gonna do that this week. Those tend to be better with cranberry or borlone beans, but not necessarily. You could definitely be creative.
And then you probably are close to being done, but if not, you make a soup. And then right when you have that little bit at the end, it's like, ah, I can't do this anymore. I'm sick of this bean, puree it. I'd love to put anchovies, tapers, and olive oil and puree it and make a dip. And then you could start it with a completely different bean.
So I tend to do white beans one week and then dark beans the next, and or chickpeas after that. So it's very easy to do. And then in the back of the book, we have I think we call them toppings. I'm not really sure. But if you make romesco sauce or pesto or something else, you just have a bowl of beans and put a pop of the stuff in it.
It's like, oh, that's great. I'll have bread in a salad, and then I'm done. So it's sort of it's a strategy of what to do with a pot for sure. And you can think about it. And also based for shopping, it's like, okay, I'm gonna make cranberry beans this week, so I have to make sure I have pasta, you know, beans and greens, that's a great thing.
Maybe I'll uh pick up some chard at the store. So it's instead of I think what was driving me crazy is I actually bought a book on high food, which was really well done. It's really delicious. And I'm looking through the ingredients, it's like I'm never gonna do this. Or I'm gonna buy all this stuff, just one dish, and then um I'm gonna sit in my pantry until I need to throw it out.
Whereas I think with what you have and thinking about the week ahead, and there's nothing wrong with plant, but I'm not critical of that, especially if but maybe you need to make I guess my point is you don't to buy all these ingredients to make pasta fits only once doesn't make any sense. You're gonna be exhausted and you'll never do it. Whereas if you have this pot, it's just handy ingredients sitting in your refrigerator. You keep reinventing the pot. So that's that's my strategy.
And you can do it with any bean. Yeah. Oh, by the way, speaking of things, things to do, yeah. Things to do with leftover beans, refried question. Because you do you do low and slow, you like relatively low and slow, right?
Whereas like I usually do the exact opposite. Like I'm cranking my pan, I use like black iron, I'm cranking it like 375. I'm putting this stuff in and letting it kind of like caramelize onto the, you know, like kind of stick and kind of get crispy on the bottom and then scraping the hell out of it and keep doing that until I take it out, doing it in batches, but like very fast. Like I've never tried it low and slow. Have you ever done it fast?
Like, what do you think the difference is? Because I love that weird kind of char I get from the high heat on the pan. But like, I don't know. I'm gonna maybe I'll try it the slow, low and slow way. No, I would try that.
I'm not, you know, I'm an infidel when it comes to refried beans. So I also, if it's Thursday night and I'm tired, I will get an immersion blender and just blend them. And it's not as good as refried beans, but to red beans are incredible. And I will find myself, you know, have a tortilla and just dipping it in that and calling that dinner sometimes. And it's absolutely delicious.
And the best really is when you have beautiful lard from the Mexican butcher and onions that you've at least clarified so they're soft, and then you match them so that they kind of lit they really blend in with the beans as they're dissolving. But no, I would try everything. Um Yeah, I usually I usually have to use olive wool because I'm almost always when I'm doing like them, have a bunch of vegetarians. I don't want them to not be able to have the refried beans. It's absolutely delicious.
It's very different and it's a little less additional, but it's no less delicious, is what I would say. Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, also like strangely, I make the beans for refried beans. So I cook chilies and onions in with the beans. Makes mashing quite easy for me.
Anyway, uh on your bean lovers pantry, talk to me about Mixteca salt. So in Puebla, which is really near the Oaxacan border, they have these mines that have been there, salt mines, and it is a land salt, and it actually some recipes you'll see is usually for making hummus that you should put baking soda in with the cooking, which really tastes like soap. And if you have relatively fresh garmentos or chickpeas, I don't see any need to do that, but you can. Um, but it does actually soften the beans, which you know, we've always had the myth that salts will harden the beans, but the mistake salt will definitely soften them. It's not a good finishing salt, but it's a good cooking salt.
And by the way, when you add baking soda, even marginal amounts, I can smell it when the beans are cooking, and I don't I don't like it. I don't like that smell. And I always add acid to neutralize it after they're done when I have to do that. Yeah, I'm with you. And I think if you bought your beans and they've been stored in the desert for five years, and then you were now to cook them, yeah.
Maybe that's a valid thing to do. But with ours, we grow them in California. There's no need to that, which is also kind of something interesting. I'm sorry if I'm rattling. But I went to Italy where they grow the Serana bean, which is what we sell as Marcella from their seed, and the terroid issue is really different.
So they actually have a different flavor. So you should buy both. But they dry the hell out of the beans because they don't want to deal with mold over the winter months, and they have summer rains and they they just have more of a mold issue, which we don't have. If anything, we have a bug issue here. So it was just so funny watching them like, oh my God, the beans are dry.
Take them out. Like, no, no, we're gonna keep going. And that's why I think in some cultures they say you have to soak. Because with us, we get I think it's 12% that we let them dry to, and then then they're done. Right.
Well, there's a sweet spot. I I've read I've read both that making it really, really, really dry is okay. You know, medium, like the you don't want high humidity, obviously, or high heat, right? That's gonna get an overly hard bean, but you hear conflicting things about extra low, right? Hmm.
Well, yes, and also I would think if there was too much moisture, they would be more vulnerable to weevils. But it is an agricultural product, so that does happen. I hate beevils. Um, they're not oh my god. I love them, as you can imagine.
They're really fun. Oh my god, not a problem. Do you know green granary weevils, granary weevils, as opposed to rice weevils? Rice weevils have wings, they can fly. So if you have a weevil in your house that's flying, most likely rice weasel.
If you a weevil, if you have a weevil that's not flying, they're also different colors. But if you have one that's not flying, granary weevil. Only known agricultural pest that has no wild, there is no wild in the wild granary weevil. It was it co-developed with us. It is like a bane for us.
Just for us. Thanks. Thanks, weevils. God, I hate them. Uh and they're real, they they they uh they do I guess I have had them go when I was a kid.
Uh we did you ever do those when you were a kid, do the bean pictures where like you go to school and the art and the art teacher hands you all these different colored beans and some and some Elmers, and then you make pictures on cardboard with beans? Yeah. I did the ones. Yeah, yeah. I did a parrot.
Still remember it. Did a parrot. I brought it home, and my mom framed it, and then like, you know, like six, eight months later, it was just like dust and weevils. Down at the bottom of the frame behind the glass, dust and weevils. Awesome.
Uh all right, uh, another thing I never tried. How's this uh banana vinegar that you guys sell? Oh, it's wonderful. Uh it's from Vera Cruz, the state. And when the price of bananas gets too low or plaintained gets too low, they just let them rot and make uh this incredible vinegar out of but it.
It's definitely a banana plaintained flavor, but it's not sweet or toy. And it when I cook tomatoes in the summer, sometimes for dinner, I just want some lot of tomatoes it's a very judicious sprinkle of this stuff and then uh molden salt and it's like that's fabulous to this cider beans of course I do love the malden salt I can't seem to find it here but like one of the wackier recipes in here I don't know why it struck me as wacky is beans in a gorgonzola sauce it struck me as wacky how's that recipe well I was desperate and I was gonna make gnocchi and uh I got these beans reads with and I do it all the time and the Christmas limas are also known as chestnut limas and have a real chestnut texture so it's not traditional beanie texture so it I I felt it worked too well. Yeah but I was like thinking about it because you were like uh I want gnocchi but instead beans I'm like okay okay but I do get it with those kind of like bigger bigger beans but I was like all right all right all right all right fair enough no and really for recipe development I think of what you would do potatoes like this about big white beans. I mean I I love taking traditional recipes and uh whipping them I think I did a chicken tahine but I use garbanzas with no chicken and I thought this would be cute. It's one of my favorite things on the planet.
Um especially if you love Moroccan flavors. Oh yeah I'm I'm definitely gonna do that. I'm gonna do that uh beans in purgatory recipe that you have which is kind of like you know with beaten beans and the eggs in purgatory with the beans like I'm gonna maybe do it more shaksuka style though Quinn gives me crap about like my shaksuka because I I cook my eggs separately and he's like, well, it's not shaksuka then. So but I'm gonna do that recipe with the beans in it because that sounds like a really fantastic idea. Do you also put cheese in that?
I don't remember. No cheese, right? Non-dairy on that one. No. And I think when I was a younger cook, everything was finished with parmesan.
Yeah, or cheese. We'll just add cheese. And as I get older, I'm just trying to think, how much can I pair back and she'll make it incredible? All right. Well sometimes you can't.
Yeah, sometimes you can't. Sometimes you pair it back too much. But anyway, uh the book is the Bean Book by Steve Sando uh from Rancho Gordo Beans. Go buy your beans. Go buy the book at Kitchen Arts and Letters.
Steve, thanks for coming on again. We'll see you guys next week on Cooking Issues. Thank you.
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