Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Katie Varn, your host of Cookie Usually is coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dam Studios joined as you. Well, not as usual. John's not here. He's sick.
He's under the weather. What are you gonna do? But I do have Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing, Joe? Hey, welcome to the studio.
Hey, yeah. How's everyone going? It's going all right. Although guess what? I silenced my phone, but you know what silencing is.
It's going off the hook right now with something. Do you know what doesn't silence? Alarms don't silence. So stupid. Uh I was born stupid.
Uh I'm gonna start in reverse. In the upper upper left, we have Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm all right. You uh few chilling it up up there.
Everything good? Yeah. It sounds it yeah. Uh always chipper. Uh moving down uh on that coast, we got in uh Los Angeles, Jackie Molecules.
How you doing? Yep, I'm good. Yeah, and Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up? Hi.
I you know, I I can never I try to like because I never speak to anyone on this show before I get in the morning, so I try to read in the way they say hello, what's actually going on behind the scenes. And uh what? What I don't really understand text this morning. What text? I don't know, something about gaslighting and home depot.
Oh, the question is is someone you are are doing a project with is gaslighting you. Right? Let me introduce let's get our guest in on this. So uh from the new book Taste in Music, eating on tour with indie musicians. We have Luke Pyonson.
How are you doing? Good. Thank you for having me. Now I feel like I can, you know, interject with the thing. Yeah, and I yeah.
And so like I'll give you the Nastasia, in case you haven't seen that the book yet. What it is is what? What? Oh, I didn't know that was a real question. I thought it was in reference to Home Depot.
Never mind. We can talk later. Well, no, it's an interesting question. So the question is if someone's gaslighting you, right? The gaslighting isn't necessarily working on me.
Like I don't believe the things that are being said to me, but it's still irritating and inefficient. Right? And maybe they believe this stuff. See, I think there's like a isn't it can't it be the case that the person who's gaslighting you actually believes their own story? Can't that be true?
You know, I have a friend who's a uh philosophy professor and she specializes in gaslighting. Ooh, all right. So I wish we could get her on the I thought you were gonna give us like a like a little chestnut. I mean, no, I don't have any chestnuts, but I know it I know a specialist if you need to talk to someone, that's all I'm saying. Yeah.
All right, Quinn, what was your gaslighting? What was your gaslighting idea? Well no, I was gonna say I think gaslighting employs intent. If they just believe something that's incorrect and they're telling it to you, that's just being delusional. No, but if it's always in their favor and it always happens, then it's I mean, in other words, like like I try to treat things in an old testament sort of way.
I don't look towards intent, right? I look towards action and words and speech, and so like I mean, intent is somewhat important if they were gonna go to court, but if like the effect is the same, it could be an into art, it could be an AI doing it to me. I don't care. You know what I mean? It's like it's just irritating and inefficient.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Uh you know, because gaslighting, probably a great technique if it works, right? You drive someone else crazy and you make them think that what you're saying is accurate when it's not. But if it doesn't work, it's just a pain in the butt, no.
Anyway. Uh uh I took out my glasses so I saw I can't see anything. So uh Luke, this is the portion of the uh program where we all discuss anything that's happened over the past week, usually in food, but not always in food, right? So uh what what what does anyone what does anyone got? Hmm.
Um so two things. Um first um on the music front, because I know it's a music show. I I was looking at the totally wrong list before when you asked. I do know a lot of people in this book, and I happen to see TV on the radio play this weekend. So I feel like that's kind of like in line with uh some of the stuff you got in the book.
Um but then moving to food, Dave. Um went to Parks Barbecue again, which I hadn't been to in a while, which is like a legendary Korean barbecue spot here. I have a question for you. Um what's your strategy for all the little dishes that come out with the barbecue? Do you just go in blind?
Do you ask? You know what I mean? Oh, I mean, I just eat them all, like fast. You eat them all. Often they will bring you more.
They do. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I like I like all like I like almost all of those things.
Like there's very few of those things, like uh like is there any that you are worried about in particular? Like there's the marinated crab. No, some of them though, I like couldn't tell you what some of them are. You know, I eat them, I'm like, that's delicious. I don't bother asking or doing any additional research, though.
Well, here's what you should do. I don't know whether it's good enough at this yet, but Google reverse search is very good for products. Maybe it's also working for food at this point. If not, it should soon. Did I have this conversation?
I'm having a super deja vu moment where so I was a philosophy undergrad. Oh. Yeah. And then and uh so like I used to love to read Plato all the time. Uh-huh.
I loved it. Did we talk about this on air? And uh, but I you know, I always thought he was a moron. I mean, great writer, you know what I mean? But like fundamentally wrong, obviously, right?
Like the idea of the platonic form, I thought was kind of absurd, right? Like there's no there's no truth to like the dogness of a dog or the chairness of a chair, for instance, right? Right. And yet here's AI. Like basically saying, look, I can like not know anything and see the chairness of a chair.
But maybe that's as far as forms go. I know there's a lot of scholarly research right now. I just haven't read it because who has the time to read philosophy when you're you know busy losing money at a in a cooking business, right, Sas? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe I got I got I got offered a job as uh a phone bank person for Home Depot, and it said I can make anywhere between 50 and $1,000 a day.
I was like, all of those numbers are better than we're actually doing right now, Stas. Yeah. Uh yeah. Anyway, so uh how do we get on this? Oh, barbecue, just eat it.
Reverse Yeah, reverse search on Google, yeah. Yeah. Then you can find, hopefully, you can find out what the thing is. But it's often wrong. Even my plant ID app, which is phenomenally amazing.
Yeah, I was gonna say plants, I feel like is where it really excels. It's very good except for when it's not. You know what I mean? Like, because it's not actually what I mean, I'm sure you know this. What they're what they're not actually doing is is doing like a bifurcating tree like you would do for plant ID, where it's like, okay, opposite leaves, okay, where does it live?
You know, all this stuff, and like figuring out, are there free, you know, are there f are there bristle tips on the lease? Like it's not doing that. It's just it's just people, people, peep like doing it's you know, neural garbage and then coming out with a this is uh and sometimes it's just dead round. Yeah. You know?
So maybe it wouldn't do that for Perilla, you know, maybe it'd tell you the prilla was cheese so maybe it depends on like like it's I think on stuff that people take a lot of pictures of, it's probably pretty much. Yeah, and I think Banchan is pretty well photographed in this day. I don't know whether people have trained the set. That's the thing. Have they trained the set?
Yeah. Garbage in, garbage out. That's like a lot of the early big data stuff was uh on food, was just bad because they're like, uh they just fed it a bunch of like white folk stuff. Yeah. And then so like, you know, you got back white folk answers.
And they're like, oh, look, butter and flour go well together. Okay, guy. You know what I mean? It's like garbage in, garbage out. I think it's the same with all of this stuff, you know.
Yeah. I love people who are like, algorithms can't be racist. Okay. Okay. Okay.
You know what I mean? Uh anyway. All right, Quinn, you've always got something in the food front. By the way, I didn't I saw an absolute opposite band from uh what uh Jack saw. I saw the New York Philharmonic.
Oh, there you go. Yeah, very different bands. Pretty okay. That's a good band, though. Yeah.
It was a great band. Actually, I haven't been there probably like in like a decade. I was gonna ask, so it's now that it's renovated as the does it sound any better, in other words? That's what I was gonna ask. I mean, I don't remember how bad it used to sound.
So for those of you that don't know, like the New York Philharmonic played in what was like worldwide known as the crappiest sounding auditorium of any major uh what's it called, orchestra. Like just trash. Compare, and we have like one of the best in the world. We have Carnegie Hall, but like our best orchestra, no offense to all of us, orchestra. Like plays in the played in the crappiest.
Best band, arguably. Yeah, best band. Yeah. What was it? It was uh what was that thing called?
Al's Tully, right? Mm-hmm. Anyway. Alice Tully Hall. Yeah.
And uh it's now it's named after like David. Yeah. And I it sounded it sounded pretty good. How are the sight lines? I remember terrible sight lines in the old one too.
Oh, it was good, and we were up in this like second tier, like not quite uh my nose wasn't quite bleeding. I didn't have to like pull out the Kleenex, but like it sounded good and I could see everything that was going on. And it was one of those rare things where they were doing like a multiple performer bid uh you know multiple uh composer bid, and like I wanted to see one and my wife wanted to see my wife was going for the Shostakovich and I was going for the Prakafia. I was like and then she ended up liking the Prokafia more and I ended up liking the Shastakovich more. Wow.
You know? What do you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And I want to sit in those seats that are right above the band, you know? Like there's that tier that's like behind the stuff.
Like the thin one where you're gonna fall off. I'm I don't like heights. Yeah, no, I don't love heights either, but I feel like there aren't there rows that are like you're like right at the stage, right above it, but I feel like they're bad seats, so they're not that expensive. Nastasia would get that and love it. Nastasia's favorite view of any band is the side of their faces.
Like from behind. I want a bird's eye view of all the wacky percussion. I just want to see the guy that's standing there most of the time, and then every so often they'll pick up a triangle or pick up uh they had a lot of percussion going on because of Russians, like you know what I mean? And like uh yeah, they had like dual dual tympathy uh timpans, like well like two Tippany guys mostly. Well, they were doing also like just a lot of like you know, yeah.
The Timpany folk were on point, and uh whatever they call that giant bass drum that they have. Uh huh. I don't know what the hell they call it. Me neither. What you mean you don't know what they call that?
Honestly, no. What the hell, dude? Aren't you a drummer? You said it was an opposite. You know, I never did like symphony band, I always did jazz when I was younger.
You're like a brush freak. Not a brush freak. I can look at your I am not a brush freak. You're a brush I'm not a brush freak, but what I can tell you is that Vic Firth, the main manufacturer of drumsticks, also makes a pepper mill. I don't know if you know that.
I did not. Same wood. Really? Same wood. But like, okay, whatever.
Sticks are better than the shit. What are they, Ash? I don't know. I actually don't know what the wood is, but that's their two products drumsticks and pepper mills. What's your stick size?
I use the Peter Erskine ride stick, which is a little bit thinner and it has like a tapered tip, and it's named after Peter Erskine, who is a jazz like session drummer. Yeah. His daughter Maya Erskine is a is a well known actress. Yeah. So you like a lighter lighter stick?
I like a lighter stick. Yeah. Wait, what's over under? Over over under. What's that?
Snare. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Sorry? Well, you hold your sticks. Oh, trad or non trad?
I do I I don't do trad grip, yeah. I feel like oh whatever. I have my own opinions about folks who do trad grip in a rock band, but uh it's not for me. The uh drummer from my college band played with marching band sticks. That is crazy.
That's like well, the guy from like Tool will use that too, you know. I forget what the numbers were. There were some number of D or something like that. They were big freaking sticks. And then when he learned that Fish from Fishbone used like two B's or some tiny little stick, he was like, This is reminding me of the album cover for Pink Floyd.
It was at Omagama or not Omagama live at um Pompeii, where they have all their instruments laid out, including the truck that drove all the console. Yes. Yes. I love that picture. Yeah.
How how much do you hate like a vocalist who doesn't have to carry heavy gear? Speaking of that. Oh man, I mean, I just like in our band, we did share a lot of the schlepping, I have to say. Um, but no, I don't resent anybody. I'm happy to schlep, it's my burden.
No, so you're a liar. I'm kidding. I'm gaslighting you. Dang. Covered and smothered.
There you go. Wow. All right, listen. We don't have John to do his uh McGillas. So if you're listening live and you want to call in questions about ostensibly about eating whilst on the road, right?
Or anything, eating. Because we, because like uh we're gonna we're gonna have to get some regular questions in as well, otherwise we're never gonna get to them. Call in your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. That's if you're a live Patreon listener.
And Quinn, why don't you tell them how to do that? Well, I mean, they're listening live if they are a patron at Patreon.com slash cooking issues, where you get all sorts of benefits like listening live, priority questions, uh, occasional discounts with our sort of guests or friends of the show. Um, and you also get $20 off of the Sears All Pro. Dave, why don't you tell them about the current Sears All Pro holiday sale? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sears All Pro. The Sears All Pro is 50% larger than the traditional Sears All, but the same weight and the same height. So safe, safe, safe now on Map Gas to really sear the hell out of your food. And you can get it for $20 off, which is almost the price of a regular Sears All on crappy, crappy Amazon, who hasn't paid us in a year and a half. Yeah, so right now, the Sears All Pro is $100 on Booker Index.com.
And if you are a patron at the uh all access or VIP level, you can search the archive for a $20 off code that still works on top of the sale price. Yo, Quinn, don't do that to me on the fly though. You know how hard it is to come up with ad copy and do the stupid voice at the same time, man? It's not easy, man. Gotta give me some time.
I can come up with copy for you. You know what I mean? Although, to be fair to you, I wouldn't have taken taken the time to come up with the copy. So yeah. Anyway.
Also, to the Patreon people, I want to know this. Listen, I have so many 3D files that I have, like 3D print files. I have no idea what percentage of uh the people who are on the Patreon have access to a 3D printer or even care about this kind of stuff. So let us know on the on the Discord or whatever. Like if you do do 3D printing, what kind of 3D printer do you use?
If you do like laser cutting, let us know what you have. And then if you know if there's people out there who want some of these files, like for instance, you got your espresso people. Yeah. So I moved away from my giant 20, this is like, you know, almost a year ago now. I moved away from my giant Rocky grinder, which was big, but it was 25 years old and you know, it was getting long in the tooth.
And I moved to a uh Barazzasette, right? But I didn't want to get the one that weighs because it's too fiddly for me. So I 3D printed a uh a better single dose hopper than the one you can buy for it on the internet. Oh so anyway, things like this that you could, you know, you could have, because I don't care. I'm never gonna commercialize these things.
Do you have a 3D printer? Oh, yeah. I've been I have the same 3D printer for like 12 years now. I I I need to get a diaper um like uh uh a thing for a top of a diaper thing. Maybe you can send it over to you to print for me.
Do you have an STL? I haven't got it from the website. Yeah, all right. Uh like, you know, I print everything at ABS, so hopefully, hopefully that's okay. If how big is it though?
Uh uh it's gotta be probably maybe six by six, maybe about an inch in depth. It's not so bad. No, it's not so bad. Because the things take forever. But I I print like tons of parts on that all the time.
Uh like I have for for years and years and years. My whole house is like half 3D printed little Gotsis. Well, wasn't the whole point to send these like this these schematics up to space to print while in space for the parts of the satellites and space stations? I mean, the problem is is that you have to print functional items and functional so it depends on what your like what your idea of functional is. So, like a lot of people like to print in a material called PLA because it's kind of like theoretically eco-friendly and like you know, a bioplastic and all this.
But it just it sucks under heat. They it's heat deflection temperature is just too low, so I can't use it for anything almost. I print on you know, so like it all depends on. Yeah, in sp but because it's really hot in space. It gets really freaking hot in space and really freaking cold.
Yeah, true. You know what I mean? Like it's so it's like, and you know, like a lot of those parts need to be made of metal. So the answer is yes, you could do it. You know what I mean?
Like everyone thought like uh when metal printing became big, and maybe it has happened that like Boeing, you know, back when people were like, ooh, Boeing. You know what I mean? Like Boeing is gonna like have like 3D printers wherever like their maintenance stuff is, so that instead of having to wait for a part to show up from across the country, they'll just be like beep boop beep. I don't think it's happened yet. But metal printing is sick.
Sick. Love Boeing. Do you really hear Boeing then? I don't know. No.
Yeah. I mean, I I use their products unwillingly. Yeah. Right. So we you're not.
It's usually Boeing. You're not. Well, when I get on a plane, I feel like it's a good thing. You don't need those aerobus things. You're not an aerobus person?
I'll go. I mean, whatever they put me on. That's what it is. I know. I was never in a bus.
Never did a bus. Oh, well, wait, wait. Okay, okay. So to touring for a second. So like what so you did you did you never did bus?
Did you do van? Van, sprinter, minivan, sedan. Ooh, sufud. Yeah. Sedan.
Oh, that's the roughest. Sedans. How far did you tour in a sedan? Oh, I did cross country there and back in a sedan. How many sedans?
One sedan. How many pieces in the band? Uh one time with four and one time with three. Gear on top? Gear on top the first time and like gear not on top the second time.
What kind of gas mileage did you get? Oh man, like terrible. The second what kind of car was it? It was like an old Corolla, I want to say. The second time, the first time.
It was an old Acura. Oh Jesus. Are you familiar with the book about how to cook using your engine block? I have heard about it. There's two different books on the subject of how to cook using your engine block.
I feel like you could have killed all the birds with nine stones. Yeah, maybe we could have. Yeah. But the the gear on top thing doesn't work. It's not it's not good.
Yeah. Did you even like cause like it's not like friendly gear? Well, I guess. Did the bassist have his uh uh his or her own cab or were they de boxing it? There was no cab, it was just uh just a single at you know, single.
Yeah. But uh we put like our suitcases on it. It was just it was terrible. I don't I don't want to think about it, but I'm proud of it. Did you do an airplane tour?
Well, in Australia, that's how you tour. Yeah. You take planes between every uh every city because it's so freaking far. Yeah. All right, caller.
We have a caller, caller, you're on the air. What's up? Uh yeah, hi. This is Patrick from New York. Uh how you doing?
I'm right. How you doing? Good. This may be related to eating on the road. In fact, it is.
But I have a really basic question that I've been meaning to ask for a while. Do you does one need to wash fruits or vegetables? I'm not talking about sand or grit or anything like that, but a vegetable or piece of fruit that you can buy in a supermarket, or I guess a farmer's market in the United States. Does one for for for health and safety reasons actually need to wash it? Yeah, we should get the riskier not folk in.
So that you're saying aside from whether or not they've coated it with some sort of something or whether or not there's any sort of pesticide application, are you talking about human filth? Yeah, let's let's accept pet pesticides. Like let's say a I'm gonna I'm gonna use a pr a real world example that's constant as that. I can buy escarol at a supermarket near me. Sometimes it's it has grit, but sometimes it has zero grit.
And I'm inclined not to not to bother go through the whole you know, rigmarole of washing, rinsing, drying if I'm not gonna bite down on a rock. Esquerole gets quite wet. Okay, okay, listen. How do you guys wash your esc? Escarol's an important problem.
How do you guys wash your escarol? For me, it's you we break the leaves apart, immersion soak in your in a giant pot or better yet, a colander, and then spin it dry. And 'cause like I have never once seen I've seen escroll that comes cleaned, but there's always that one little piece of dirt. Do you do you cut the bottom of your escarol off? Is that why?
Do you cut enough off the bottom that it all the dirt is like trapped in the little I check I check I ch I check the bottom for that way I cut it off for dirt most of it most of it's in the bottom inch yeah that's true you have you have clean leaves after that but that got me thinking is like well do I need the escroll is the base of the question in fact but if you know I'm drawing it the broader kind of thing. Cabbage this is other salad leaves. Separate but like for instance like I'm petri so like there are things that I always do no matter what just because like I've seen what happens when you don't it's like when you get fresh cod you look at it because worms right when you get like Brussels sprouts you look at it because like little maggody things in Brussels sprouts you look at the base of a Brussels sprout leaf you'll see sometimes like a small borehole or you'll see like the leaves kind of like round and when you cut those open you can see boreholes through them all the time. And so like I always check my Brussels sprouts and I cut off every single I've if you eat a Brussels sprout at my house I have looked at it individually trimmed the end of it off where it was trimmed a million years ago and like taken the outer leaves off and like looked at it and been like Buddy are you okay? Which is why I don't really like making them even though they're my wife's favorite vegetable.
Favorite she loves Brussels sprouts and I like them. I like them I don't like preparing them yeah for that reason. Or like pistachios you have to look at every if you buy shell pistachios you have to look at every single pistachio because the bad pistachio is like not just because of the aflatoxin, because who cares if you live or die really? It just tastes so bad. Yeah, so ruin your ruin your ruin your evening.
Do you like a salad spinner? Love salads. I hate all actual salad spinners, but I like the function of them. So back to the question at hand. Uh how many times have you been at a store and you've seen someone pick up a fruit and or vegetable?
And then you look at them and you're like, nah, nah. Yeah, that's why you wash it. Because like that person, you don't know if that person has picked up your vegetable or not. You know what I mean? That per I once went to a very famous place, served very fancy cheese.
Two of us. So I know you know how like people are like, you never know who it was that gave you the food poisoning. Yeah, unless multiple people who only ate one meal together get food poisoned. Yeah. And I got set on like double spray, spray out of both sides, like like on fire, like, you know, shot, right?
And because someone didn't wash their hands, and they, you know, handled the cheese that they had sliced and didn't cook. So anything that you're gonna eat, once you're gonna cook it, I think it's much less of a problem. Like you're you're actually thinking raw though that that even helps remove that, or at that point it's contaminated anyway. I don't so so like a lot of the E. coli problems with uh aren't wash again.
We I'm not an expert on this, right? But like a lot of that stuff, I think was internal. Like, so like in other words, like the somehow the bacteria had gotten on it, dripped on it a long time ago. But I think surface stuff you can I think surface stuff is. And cooking it.
I mean washing it and cooking it. But I feel like it's always lettuces. But even if you're not gonna do it. Yes, it's always a salad that'll kill you. That's what you tell any pregnant person.
It's a salad that'll kill you. Right. You know what I mean? Like, or the deli meat. Things that you're not gonna cook, right?
The deli meat will kill you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like listeria, like the thing is is that listeria is not gonna get the vast majority of us sick, but if it does get you sick, you're in real trouble. You know what I mean?
And so uh I think it what it's not that you can kill or remove all of the bacteria, it's not like I'm spraying Clorox on my vegetables. I think some people put like hard quests. I was gonna say I actually had an old bandmate who washed apples with soap because he was with dish soap. He's brought up that way. That's creepy.
So that just to tie into my book. Where do they where do they where did they is that in here? I didn't see that. It's not in there. Yeah and where did they grow up?
He grew up in upstate New York. Uh-huh growing uh religious strawberries with baking soda. What? Why? It's I I have no idea.
Like in a like soaking them in Yeah exactly. Why? Weird. It does this crazy effect where it gets super foamy and then come Yeah well that makes sense because they're acidic. Huh?
But why would you be killing the acid in your strawberry like a jerk. Anyway point being that uh even if you can't kill all of the stuff with washing I believe you can reduce the the bacterial load. And like some of it might be in like surface filth. So getting I think any time you reduce the bacterial load, it's not that you necessarily made it 100% safe. It's still the salad that's gonna kill you.
But uh you know I think you've just lessened the killing. You know what I mean? And then Esquerol you're brazen it probably so I mean like yeah although there is an escrow escarrol is you know it's it's good every every preparation but it is also the one that this is a supermarket that I only buy the escrow at because all the other produces is is is expensive and not of good quality but that's a good comment no cashier in two years has ever got escroll correctly even after buying you know hundreds hundreds of heads. Oh man. It's an interesting problem.
So do you walk up and you're like, escroll do you just remember the uh the the skew for it so you can give them the PLU? Well, the funny thing is that sometimes it's remembered as a thing 'cause the price is variable because it's per head. So sometimes it's it's inputted as a thing that's slightly lower in price, sometimes higher. So you you like the gamble. I've corrected both times, but you know what it sort of offends my my my my heritage Italian heritage that no one knows what this very delicious vegetable is.
What does it get input incorrectly as? More as like a bib, more as like uh more as like a romaine? What do they correct incorrectly putting it? Green leaf is the most common. Green leaves.
The romaine. Yeah. And then green as green as as green cabbage, which is the most bizarre one. What? But um, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So yeah, no, and nobody nobody knows what escroll is. Just sad. But everybody knows what green cabbage is. I mean, like even sadder.
What if they what if they were like Oreos? What if they just like put it in as like something completely different? Because like green cabbage is so far away. Right? Well, n I guess because they're supposed to be real heavy and they're real cheap per pound.
Yeah, I mean, that's probably the ideal. But I like that you like the gamble. But the idea that you wouldn't know the difference between a a heading brassica and a non heading, you know, I don't know Escroll's a brassic. I will take I will take I'll take this that take this exact quote to the to the cashier. It's nice on there and see how they see see how I see how I get treated.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I wouldn't I wouldn't. I mean like uh yeah. Yeah. Oh speaking of a grocery, so how many grocery stores are there in your neighborhood?
Um this this will help identify what it is without naming it. It is a there's a brook a Brooklyn-based minute mini, sort of high-end supermarket chain, but that it of four to five stores. Um Brooklyn Fair, I think I have a guess. Brooklyn Fair, right? I think it's Union Market.
You think it's Union Market? Oh, we have one by us. Uh that's neither confirmed nor deny. Yeah, there's one in in Manhattan, but there's a there is one located w uh a two-minute walk from our apartment now. So that's the source of much escarrol, but m mu no other produce, basically because of it's if it's uh if it's price.
So but yeah, so we're familiar with we've now named the location. So all right. So listen, so how do you do your escroll? Because escroll is important. How do you do your escroll?
Well, I do escroll everywhere, but I do like it as a salad, you know, as a raw salad, not just cooked. Um you're a bitter bitter man. In yes. In in in soups, in you know, I like it bright you know, braised in any preparation. And for Christmas, I was thinking of doing it bra just braised in heavy cream, like you know, several heads, which was thought would be pretty good.
Obviously on Christmas and not Christmas Eve if you're Italian, are you doing the fish? Uh I will be not preparing Christmas Eve. So, but but this will be for Christmas Day anyway. So, yeah, braise escrow. Yeah, cream.
Queen of you, are you guys doing the fish this year? No, we I don't think we've ever done fish. Okay. Gotta do the fish. Anyway, maybe when we went to my grandma's.
I did have a fish idea, Dave, that you would you would love is piece of the one fist. Just do cod, you know. Seven, you know. Like seven different ways. So instead of like doing all of the different things, just to so like I'm gonna put this out there as a as a plug for a people who'd pay me nothing.
But Calluccio Brothers in Brooklyn, right? So it's near, I don't know what neighborhood that actually is. I think it's near Sunnyside or some crap like this. But Calluccio Brothers between now and Christmas has the best cod display I have seen in the United States ever, salted cod. So they have like five different varieties of whole sides of cod, as well as like the box-down fat, like baccala like like setups that you can do.
So if you anyone wants to really up their cod game this year and you and you're stopping near Brooklyn, go buy Caluccio's and see the serious cod business. I'll put in a plug for Portugalia Marketplace and Fall River Mass, which I wrote about for Sever. They've got a whole climate-controlled room for their baccalau. It is they've probably got, I don't know, upwards of 25 varieties and cuts of bacalao, including a bin of bits, which I think for the shredded Portuguese preparations is the best, and it's easier to soak and easier to cook with. Baccala bits.
I'll tell you, I typically buy, and this is okay. I'm gonna give a couple actual cooking related things here. I uh do a lot of preparations where the cod is like, or it's not it's not even really cod, it's poly. Come on, some corn cheap. Anyway, so like but like uh is shredded, and so like you don't really need to do much.
So if you're like mixing like salt fish into like mashed yams, for instance, or you know, like actual yams, not like sweet potatoes, like actual cams. I was gonna say that sounds a little real yams. Real yams. Like like nominate. Yeah, right.
Stuff like that. So like for that, I think the cheap stuff, because it's so thin, you know, I still I don't I've never done the actual test, but like still to my mind, I'm like, don't boil it, don't boil it. Yeah. You know, but like I just bring it up warm to like, you know. My mom used to do, I'm kind of triggered because my mom used to do the like, you know, like week-long soak and I spilled it once all over our laundry.
Oh no. Because it was in the laundry room, right? In a tub in the laundry room. Is that the best place for it? Yeah, on top of the washer.
So, you know, when I was a kid, I was like, what's this? Boom! And like the, you know, the backlog juice all over everything is a nightmare. Yeah. Anyway, um point being that uh it's good, but I like the cheap stuff for like because that stuff you can get the salt out.
You don't even really need to because you're gonna shred it, but you can get it out like in an evening. You don't need to like, you know, do a lot of planning for it. Uh all right, I will tell you my escroll. Uh I do uh my mom's old escroll, which is like real like quick weeknight meal, is you just fry up, you put un you fry up a bunch of bacon with onions, so you sweat out the onions and the bacon at the same time. Chop up like old school, like, you know, 70s pepperoni, like a half a stick, dice it, throw that in there.
Beans, escarol. She use cantalini beans. Sounds great. It is pepper. You know, I I do it now super fancy where I start from dry beans and I use all this stuff, but my mom's is still, you know, the one I remember.
But that's that's my go-to Escroll, kind of stewed. I like it stewed. You a raw escrow, man? I like it stew. It sounds like it sounds like Utica Green.
So well, I think that I thank you for the answer. And now now I'm gonna have $20 head to Escarol since I've identified myself on air as the only purchaser of Escroll in this market. The the uh the odds that they're listening, minimal. All right, well, good luck, good luck uh getting cabbage prices for your escrow. Thanks.
All right. So uh where was it? Let's go into the book. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. So like uh I'm just gonna say I forget who uh I forget who said it, but like one of the musicians, so the the the format of this book is is that uh it's not really interviews, it's more like you know, musicians, some of whom you're friends with and some of whom like you're just like I don't know, you're not friends with Bob Mould, right?
No, I can't say I am. I mean like I was like, oh Bob Mould. Like so like you know we're joking about like it's good Okay, so for those of you that don't know, it's indie musicians. So how do you define indie? First of all, let's get into that.
Oh man. There's no definition. It's it's meaningless. Well, how much money does an indie person make? For instance, what I thought was hilarious is that one of the one of the people who had a like a diverticulitis when they were really young, like didn't seek medical treatment because I think they weren't insured, but also because their whole band was making a hundred dollars a night.
I'm making a hundred dollars a night as a professional musician, so I'm not gonna go help myself. Exactly. You know what I mean? So like so what like what level like what level of indie so indie goes from starving to you're making a real living, right? Like what's the range?
Yeah, there's a wide spectrum that includes all of that and even includes I don't know, there's people who are probably making a ton of money who who would be classified as indie under the very broad meaningless definition. Right, like pavements in here, but is that really indie? Yeah, pavements for sure, pavements indie. And I also, you know, I don't know. I mean, now they can sell places out because of nostalgia, right?
You're saying back in the day when Slanthin Enchanted came out, and like Yeah, I mean pioneers of what is considered to be indie rock for sure. And still indie. But I you know talking has Bob Mould's whole thing in here is called Econo. Because he was poor as hell during Husker Doo. I didn't start listening to them because I'm not that old, but I didn't start listening to him until Warehouse came out, the compilation of their stuff.
But then when his solo stuff came out, I thought he was huge, but I guess he wasn't huge. He was still indie. Sure was huge. I mean, it so literally it's if you're on an independent label, right? But even that is kind of like nebulous.
You know, my band was on subpop, 51% is owned by Sub Pop and 49% is Warner Brothers, I believe. So even that is kind of like what's indie, what's not indie? You know, we've got Phoebe Bridges' uh touring chef in here, Phoebe Bridges. Yeah, yeah. Started as indie, I think still classified on playlists or whatever is indie.
I don't know. But I think we just needed we need to call it something, and that was the easiest. Ind indie indie cred, rich people money. Yeah. What I will say is that my great aunt who's 85 years old picked up the book at Thanksgiving and said, Taste in music, eating on tour with Indian Muslims.
Wow. So that's just that's another spin. That's a that's a whole different book. Yeah, that's a whole different book. You should I mean, like, it's it's you're not really in the position to write that book, but you know, you I'm not you can find people who could.
Maybe. Um I I can't find who the quote is, but someone someone in here gave like the perfect quote, and it's someone who had made some money, she'd made she'd gotten more famous. That's probably Natalie from Wise Blood. Well, the quote was, you know, that I st I started off one of the one of the themes that runs through this is the older musicians like came up when people didn't care about food as much in general. Definitely like they were all fast food.
Like one of the quotes I thought was hilarious was uh the chef from uh I think from Nashville, she was like, when a heavy metal band comes through, they don't give a rat's behind what the hell they're served, so I just get them like Popeyes or some crap. But it's like if an indie band from Brooklyn specifically, so you you weasels, like are coming through, like she's gonna give a crap because you give a crap. So, like there definitely seems to be a real like age break between uh older people, basically food not being more than just sustenance or being like vegan punk, like you know, like Mould was back in the day, right? I think he was. And then like uh, or like, you know, now when you know, the only person I know who, you know, was one of my old bartenders who had touring musician, you know, he's a food freak.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So like why do you think that break happened? And the the quote I think was perfect. So I'm part of this thing called the Museum of Food and Drink, right?
And um, like part of the notion there is that and I remember the quote, she said, I used to think that good food was bougie. Mm-hmm. Right. But it's not bougie, it's for everyone. And like that's the big jump that she made mentally, and now she has more money, so it's it's good.
But like the the point being that like that's the whole goal of the museum, that it shouldn't be bougie, that like, you know, like you know, working, you know, working style musicians who are like on the road like all the time shouldn't have to poison themselves. Yeah, you know, to to do it. Yeah. Who was it? Do you remember who that was Natalie from Wise Blood, Natalie Maring, yeah.
Yeah. It's a great quote. And it's true. It's it's it's funny because in the US, you just what she was talking about is getting a tour in Europe more, you know, and getting a little bit more successful, but being able to do the even the DIY tours in in Europe, uh which promoters really they really care about showing you a good time and sharing their local local culture with you. And it just doesn't really happen in the US.
Um and so I think at least in in our world of quote unquote indie music, a lot of people get exposed to these sorts of styles of eating uh when they get to tour in Europe for the first time and they're like, oh wow, like people are eating this food that would cost so much at a restaurant uh where I live, um, and be thought of as bougie or whatever, but here it's just normal. Well, it seems that like the actual like you know, home cook hospitality seems to happen more not here. It does not ha I mean I should say, so there's this I forget if this term comes up in the book or not, but like there's this this whole idea of promoter pasta, which is really that's what you're gonna get in the US if you get anything at all, which I think kind of sounds like what it is. It's a big vat of you know, whatever pasta with some kind of jarred sauce. What's the standard?
Apparently, I don't know if you know this. Not you, you know this. You wrote it. But like every every green room has hummus, apparently. Every green room has hummus.
We we had a kind of a anti-hummus manifesto written by uh Stephen Merritt that we were not able to include because it was a little over the top. A little over the top. How so over the top. You can include it here. It was it was maybe not a hundred percent sensitive to the uh strong cultural foundations of hummus.
And that's something we didn't want to wade into with the same thing, is like a hummus is delicious. You just don't want only hummus. That's all he was trying to say. It's like it is true. It's every single green room, and like, you know, it gets pretty pretty bad after Does the cracker change?
I'm not even seeing crackers in my mind's eye. I'm seeing like dry crudette. Oh, I love it. Like like like ashy carrots. Yes.
Yeah. Uh celery where the ends have started to split open. Correct. A little bit of brown, just a like a little bit of brown. Yeah, yeah.
Um What's your least favorite crude de tae? Probably man, the thing is I theoretically I like crude, but if if we're talking about a green room crudete, I you know, I don't like baby carrots. Really? I don't I prefer they're not really baby carrots anyhow. Right.
But I don't like what they've done to them. And I don't like the specific kind of weird sweet flavor that they have. Do you not like the abrasive peeling technique that's used on them? They're like tumbled. What I don't like is when they cut if we're talking about so not in a crudete platter, if we're just talking a bag of baby carrots, which is another common green room thing.
That's a wet product. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's too wet. It's very wet.
I always rinse that. Going back to the caller before. Uh and you know, listen, I w I had um We had the risky or not podcasting on one of the people on from that, and he was like, Yeah, like all those things that say pre-washed, like the data is that it's safe. I'm like, oh hell no. Well no.
I'm gonna wash that crap. Yeah. You know what's you know what never works? Pre-washed arugula. You ever buy a pre-washed arugula?
Yeah. I mean you open the bag and it smells like a swamp. Wash that. Throw away, throw away the dark leaves. Wash the wet wash the wet carrots.
There was actually a carrot recall recently where you went. Yes, Listeria. Yeah. I'm up on the food safety news. You know, my my wife recently had a bacterial infection from a pink salad.
It's a salad. Yeah. Well, cucumbers are just recalled last week. Really? Yeah, listeria as well.
Cucumbers delicious. And obviously deli meat. The new bag was she pregnant. She uh was not and is not pregnant, but it kinda what happened is she has celiac disease. So we were in an airport and like, you know, normally a sandwich would be your go-to.
But she kind of had to eat a salad. We try to avoid eating an airports, but we were in Europe. It's just like a whole deal. Yeah, it's not a good situation. Airport salad, you could write a song.
Ugh wouldn't be a nice song. True or false. Every airport has an airport cowboy. When you say airport cowboy, this isn't probably what you're thinking of, but I'm thinking of the jingle at the Denver airport when you take the little tram, which is a really nice western jingle that kind of evokes the spirit of a Denver airport cut. No, do you have it in your head?
Yeah. Give it to me. Oh. Oh yeah. Huh.
And you know, you know what they're doing underneath Denver Airport. I heard it's haunted. We don't need to get into that. Isn't it haunted? I've heard they're kind of controlling pretty much everything from underneath there.
Is this like a pizza gate situation? Like is there's like a conspiracy theory. It's like a QAnon situation going on with the uh underneath the Denver airport. That's right. Does it involve murder?
Uh I don't know. I haven't gotten too deep into it. But I don't know. When I was abducted and taken down there, like they didn't show me they didn't show you all the stuff. Yeah.
Alright. Uh or hold a second. Let me uh let me uh let me let me s knock some stuff out of the way that's like questions that we've had for a million years. Uh from do you by the way, what is your I know that from the book that you know you're the one who makes people like get an Airbnb instead of staying at a crappy hotel and you actually like cook meals. When we can, yeah.
So like you know, weigh in on this stuff. Like what what do you like to cook? What's your what's your go-to? On tour? What I used to cook on tour, just in general.
Yeah. Both I mean what I co I can tell you what I cooked for dinner last night. What do you cook? Chicken milanese and a huge salad. Yeah.
Shaved fennel, a little bit of hakare turnip. Uh how do you do the milanese with uh gluten free? I'll tell you Kiko Man gluten free panko. I want to say I think it's better than the non gluten free panko. Those are strong words.
It gets so crispy. Well, the first dredge, usually I do rice flour, but we were out, so I use potato starch, which I think worked really well. Potato starch. Then egg, and then the the gluten-free panko is um, I think uh rice flour, pea protein, and some dextrose in there. Uh it gets so crispy.
Really? Yeah, it really gets so crispy. And this is recent, uh, the celiac stuff. It was just this year. So I have the you know, recent in my mind.
I can remember the uh pre-celiac milanese, and then I really think this is better. What's the overunder? Ten years when we can all get crispy, fix all the problems? Yes. I'm gonna get by the way.
What I'm referring to, people, in case you don't know what I'm talking about, is crisper, and I can't wait to get crispy. I'm gonna get so crisped up. Like I I'm gonna be the first in line to like like alter my DNA, like get all get all. If that could erase the celiac, I think my wife would be thrilled. Yeah.
But the Milanese is good. That hasn't suffered. Really? I don't uh well, you know, I think frying is one of those things that it can be done really well. It's just you have to switch your starch bases around.
But I've never done the, I've never done the panko. I've never done gluten-free cracker crumb or panko substitutes, only like straight fry, like batter fry stuff. Yeah. Well, that's that definitely works. And rice flour is such a good, you know, flour for that.
Good alt flour for crispy stuff. And you know, like Japanese fried chicken, for example. So crispy. I was just thinking, man, my house is a gluten nightmare. My house is just one big gluten hole.
Yeah. Like most are. Ours was up until May. I grind I grind flour like three times a week, and like so there's just a fine film of gluten. Yeah, we can't come over.
I had well, I had that happen. So I I think I said it on air, my son had a friend who was, you know, celiac, not like just, you know, didn't like gluten or whatever, like celiac. And he invited him over for dinner. I basically had to sequester all the ingredients in my kitchen, wash, like double wash everything, scrub the kitchen down, and then buy all new spices. Spices.
I bought everything new because like literally, like when I'm cooking and something's open, like I'm grinding like f like a it's like being in a flour mill. Like there's flour. Like you when I'm doing it, sometimes you can walk up and wipe your finger through it and it's like flour on your fingers. I was like, I don't trust any of this stuff. I don't trust any of it.
Like our salt and open salters and all this stuff, like all new. Yeah. That I wasn't buying whole new spices, just what I was gonna use that night. Right, right. You know what I mean?
Yeah, we bought a new toaster. That was the main, obviously the main thing. Do you have d is it like kosher? Do you have like dueling toasters? We just I just at home.
Yeah, our our kitchen's not big enough for that. No, we just do fully I'm fine with it. So the building where I live in Lower Manhattan was built for primarily an orthodox community. Uh-huh. But they didn't have the money because it was also built for poor folk.
And so like no one had the they didn't have like two sinks in it. So everyone used to have this like back and forth thing that they could like move back and forth. Yeah. But I don't think it works for gluten. It's more it's a religious thing, less a health thing, you know.
Right, right, right. Yeah, no, for this it's just easier for us to have just wiped it out completely. And but every so often, because like I said, it's pretty recent, we'll find something that's like, oh, we didn't throw this out. There's beer in our fridge still. You know.
Yeah. But anyway, the Milanese, it's gonna be a good thing. You gotta take one for the team, pound that and throw it away. I guess so, yeah. You know?
Yeah, and then I need to brush my teeth, you know. Yeah. Oh, it's that bad, huh? Well, I don't know, it's like it's all celiac is celiac, you know. Yeah, I had uh I s this is very stupid, but uh when I graduated from college, uh I had a couple of months between that and my job.
And so I think I said this on the air. I've di I I've I only did three things. I fried very, very hot peppers, habanero, and ate them. I worked on my 76 Bonneville and I watched A-time TV. Those are the three things that I did.
And it got to the point I had a fry daddy that was given to me by my now sister in law. And my now wife was like, you you have to stop. Not because like you should get a job. I had a job, it hadn't started yet, but because she couldn't kiss me anymore because my lips were so spicy. No.
Habanero is what were you I was just like I was like stuffing them, uh huh, deep frying them. I had trained myself up to the point. This is like 1993. I trained myself up to the point where I could just like fry them and eat them straight. Huh.
Like stuff them with things, fry them to like wilt them and like get the but the oil got super spicy, and then my wife couldn't kiss me anymore. Sounds good. Not getting kissed anymore? Uh the stuff, yeah. Habaneros.
Yeah. They were good. But stupid. It's stupid. Yeah.
It's just not smart. So I would say it's more weird. I don't know. One person's weird is another person's stupid. Oh, by the way, Quinn, you never said any food crap you did this week.
Did you do any food crap? Yeah, uh, my brother is catering a holiday dinner for some family friends. So I volunteered myself for dessert. So uh dairy free, which isn't too bad. But the plan was peach and pie, and they requested uh peach survey.
So I had to figure that out in the dead of Canadian winter. Well, that's why Pure is your friend. Cause they harvest that stuff when it's good. Yeah, I mean, we bought a frozen peach like at a regular grocery store. It was awful.
Yeah. That's why you gotta get like, you know, like I think all of those things are kind of heartbreaks. Did you punch it up with sugar and acid and then it was okay? That's how I usually fix those problems. Just punch it.
I mean, it tasted okay, but it doesn't taste like peach. Yeah. Peach is weird. Peach is weird once you remove it from its uh I mean, does artificial peach flavor really taste like peach? And did they really want peach survey or do they want haribo peach flavor because that's delicious?
Dude's got the best gummies in the world, Korea. Oh, alright. Well, that was very nice of you too. A spiced orange cervey. Like cloves.
Yeah, like yeah, we'll you'll do, you know, ginger, ginger that makes cinnamon with the peach and pie. Should work. Did any of you I'm thinking maybe Nastasi and I have had this conversation. Do any of you grow up doing the thing where you get like an entire container of cloves and shove it into an orange and then shove up shove a thing through it so you can hang the orange and then you dust the cloved orange in cinnamon and it smells for like like years. I just made one like three years ago.
It still smells great. They dry. So yeah, they dry down. I remember seeing this in people's houses. I always wonder what it was.
Yeah. It's an orange, and if you it's punctured so many times by the clove, and if you if you if it's not, if the humidity in your house is correct, which it usually is in in the winter in this neighborhood, it's dry, right? Then uh the clove I think is enough of an of an antibacterial situation that it doesn't mold or grow mold. It just kind of desiccates and turns into this like hanging, solid, awesome potpourri situation. Yeah, so we have like the current one that we're on.
Like I remember like my whole childhood. And we the one we have now is going on like three years. There's a name for it, but I recommend that everybody do it. It's not as cheap as I thought. Cloves aren't as cheap as I thought, but it's not that bad.
I buy I don't buy the fanciest clothes. I buy spice class, spice class cloves in the big bucket. You go to like Essex Market or like you know, some sort of like place where like bulk spice is sold, you get your clove that way. But I recommend fancy clothes. Yeah, don't use those for this.
That's like I got same purlap and barrel fancy cinnamon. I'm like clothes. Am I gonna go through really? In an orange? Many.
But I'm just saying, like, in my life. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I know your life a little bit, but I don't know like your clove consumption. Like you might be a usinal freak for all I know.
Again, I feel like I'm I'm I'm like I regulate clove content quite heavily if I'm doing some sort of spice blue. So you don't like clothes, what you're telling me. I like it, it just it is aggressive. No hot toddies, no mold wine. I use it in chicken stock.
I puncture an onion the way you're talking about with like two cloves for chicken covers. Really? Delicious man with clothes and the sauerkraut. You know what I like the clothes to get picked out beforehand because I don't like the Yeah. Not so much on the But the sticking clove and onion, that's old school.
Yeah. That's real old school. So it doesn't get like back into the suit. Exactly. So it strains out.
I'm a big believer in tying your your herbs. I always tie my herbs and then have the little string sitting on the side of the pot. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Tie the sucker side.
Tying over cheesecloth. Yeah, with cheesecloth. Then you have to strain the cheesecloth. Yeah. You know what I mean?
You can even do bay leafs this way because if you take the bay leaf and you lay the bay leaf stack flat, then you put the string around it and you go. And when you do that, like some of the little pieces will shatter off, but none of the really sharp pieces are going to come out. Right. So like it just kind of cuts through the bay leaf, and then you could yank all the bay leaf, because nobody wants to like get the bay. That happened to my mom when I was a kid.
Really? Yeah, she kind of started choking on a bay leaf from uh prepared food from like uh the predecessor to Whole Foods. She had to go to the hospital. See? Yeah.
That'd have fish it out. It was scarring. Oh my god. Trigger trigger by she was off off bay leaves for a while. Yeah.
Maybe permanently. Well. I haven't seen one in that kitchen. In that in the house. Yeah.
I mean, like you like we consume bay leaves. You know, uh, do you remember that internet hoax where people said bay leaves don't have flavor? That still gets ongoing. There's a war on bay leaves. I think bay leaves are great.
Yeah. People are people who believe that bay leaves have no flavor, like what is wrong with them? Yeah. Well, they're having it's the wrong bay leaves. Well, you know who hates bay leaves?
Who? Ants. Really? Is that right? Yeah, great, great deterrent to ants.
Really? Yes. I appreciate that. Uh do you know what is a a deterrent to weevils? Was I having a weevil discussion on air last week?
We're talking about weevils, yeah. I didn't mention this. You know what is a natural repellent to weevils? Wormwood or artemesia. Yeah.
So like some people's, like uh, because they they they grow in a lot of places, like uh I think old school in China, some of like the the rice granaries, uh, they would like line with like straw mixed with artemisia so that the wormwood would repel the the the weevils. Which makes sense. Wormwood, I think is an anti wormant. And then you can build wormwood when you're done with it and make a um I was wondering that. I was wondering like how potent does that stuff say uh when um when it uh stops.
I'm trying to find in your book, maybe you can help me, Luke, uh the uh section with pavement because near the beginning. It's in the first if the pages are brown, so if you look at the book, yeah, it's one of the sections with pavement with the case. Anyway, yeah, here it is. So what's interesting about this one is that this is goes back to what I was saying where like this is before kind of the average band cared about food. Yeah.
And by the way, I've said this many times I'm gonna say again, I I accidentally got sat next to uh Malcolmus at dinner, didn't know who he was. And I was like, you know, and he likes food. Yeah. Yeah. But Mark is the guy in that band.
And what I didn't realize, he works at Superiority Burger. Yeah. I like t was texting my buddies and they're like, yeah, Mark works, Mark Dybold from Pavement works at Superiority Burger. I'm like, that's so crazy. Yeah, he's bartender and before at uh Great Jones for many years.
Yeah. So weird. I would think your worlds would have overlapped. No, I mean like it it should. Yeah.
Yeah. I feel bad now. One time uh in the middle of so uh at Booker and Dax, the playlist was randomized. I hated it. I hate randomized playlists.
There was a randomized I hate most playlists, whatever. It was it was r randomized and Dave Chang didn't used to allow anyone to change the like he wouldn't allow bartenders or the people because like he was known for his music taste. And so, but the problem is is that it was shuffle, right? And even now, I don't think shuffle based, I don't think even AI shuffle playlists are pretty are great yet, right? I mean, they will be soon, they'll be better than anyone soon.
But uh something from Slandan Enchanter payment came on, like you know, like I don't know, 40 million daggers or something like this, and it was just the wrong vibe. And so I killed it. I was there, I killed it. And I hate killing songs in the middle of things, right? But it just, you know, at like m you know, midnight when like you just had something bumping going.
It's like it's not the way and so like I actually got booed and I was like, Wow. I was like, listen, I was like, you need to suck it. I was like, I like I was like, I love pavement. I was like, I have listened to this album probably like more hours than you worked this year. You know what I mean?
I was like, but it's just not the right vibe now. Yeah, you know what I mean. I don't hate pavement, you know what I mean? They shut up. They probably didn't leave a good tip, which is not smart because I'm hurting my crew then.
Right. Or maybe they felt shamed and they left a big tip. I don't know, I forgot to ask. It was like 10 years ago, so who knows? Where do you think has a good playlist in the city?
Right. I don't know. I don't really go out that way. Who what do you think? Who's got a good playlist?
Like not that many play. I mean, superiority obviously has good music. Yeah. Ugly Baby, which sadly is closing, has like really aggressive, loud and good playlist. And what is your what did you well, first of all, what is your theory on so I have some theories on playlists, see what you think.
And I'm not saying that we have great playlists because the problem is that like either you're top down, which sucks, everyone. Here's something that I want people who aren't in the business to know. Everyone hates listening to the same playlist again and again. Yeah. Everybody in hospitality freaking hates listening to the same playlist over and over again.
But usually the people in charge are so hinky dinky about what's on the playlist that they and and also playlists are very hard to make, and you can't really, no one can DJ on the fly and work, you know what I mean, at the same time. So uh point is uh it's very hard to make a good playlist, very hard to get it going. My theory is that restaurant playlists are very different things from bar playlists. What are your theories on playlists? Yeah, I think that's true.
I mean, what I often say is that I love when I go into a restaurant and there's no music, but that's just because normally the music sucks and it distracts me. You need music at a bar. Yeah, but at a bar for sure, you need music. And it's very different from a restaurant. Because at a bar, here's my theory.
Ready for it? All bangers. All bangers. Because the the drinks that you have at a bar are only like like 10 minutes long. And so, like, if there's a big lull, you can't have like like, you know, like a slow movement while you're sitting there because like you're not supposed to be crying into your beer.
Yeah. We're not like playing like, you know, like old school country. Right. You know what I mean? Although that is a thing, but that's a different kind of bar.
Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I sounds good to me. And hold on, let me rip through some stuff.
Uh TK, TK, wait, tickle ticklin now says, I'm wondering if I have a specific brand of hydraulic press that you like using for bar-related activities. Uh no. I I've the big one I used was from Harbor Freight, the 20 ton, and the small one that I have is just off of Amazon. I would get a double RAM jack so that it's uh so that you can get a high higher height out of it. I mean, I I price based on uh I do it based on uh on price.
Uh oh man. Uh Wenrick, I still use the same similar French fry technique. I gotta go back and look at all of my old stuff. Um, I have a special needs. Wait, next week we're gonna have to do some of these because uh I can't handle in 25 seconds a special needs dog cooking question accurately.
So I'm gonna have to get to the rest of the questions. I'll I will try to think of succinct answers for all these questions and get them next week. The book we've been talking about with Luke Pyanson is taste in Music, Eating on Tour with Indie Musicians. And we didn't really talk about the the basic thing is give the in in in very shortly give the spiel for well we're running out of time. Give the spiel for the for like why like indie musician touring the thing about and I didn't ask you how was tour because A, you're not tweeting right now, and B you hate when people ask you that.
Yeah, it's just this is a sneaky way to look at this lifestyle that is kind of uh never really been like updated from the almost famous vibe of you know sex drugs rock and roll. And we thought food was the way to like give a more accurate window into what we recognize as the culture of of touring. Uh so yeah, I mean it's a collection of essays, like you said, it's not interviews, but there's some as told buzz which started as interviews, and it's you know, 40 or so different folks from broadly the world of indie giving their perspective on you know feeding themselves on tour, but through those stories you learn what it's actually like out there. Right. How like well, how what a nightmare it is sometimes to get food after a gig.
Yeah, or the you know, wonderful, you know, wanderlusty stories that sound pretty attractive. It's not like that every night. But yeah, it's uh I don't know, the the old like the sex and drug shit is just boring. All right, on the way out, eat in the van or don't eat in the van. Out of the van as much as possible.
All right. Well, thanks for coming on. Luke Pineson, cooking issues. Thanks for having me.
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