Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
Yeah, everything good? Yeah. Very cold, cold, cold day here in New York City. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, how are you doing?
Very cold. Cold. Yeah, you know, whatever. Uh, you know who hates people talking about the weather? Nastasia the hammer Lopez, who uh has to hightail soon, but uh is here at the beginning.
How are you doing, Stas? Good. Good, good, good. And uh over there in Los Angeles, we have uh Jackie Molecules. Jack Insley, how you doing?
Yo, I'm good. Yo, and full crew upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing, Quinn? Hey, I'm good. Good, good, good.
And uh, I am pleased to announce back for Classics in the Feel Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters, everybody's favorite cookbook store up uh on Lexington Avenue between what, 94 and 94. 93 and 94, yeah. Now listen, if you bike there, remember there's the one big hill in Manhattan you gotta get through, but it's worth it. It's worth it. You know what I mean?
Wait, the hill's before you or after you. Uh depends which way you're coming from. I guess that's true. Yeah, if you're coming from the west side, it's easy, but from the south, yeah. Or the east, it's bitter.
Yeah. It's a nice walk from the subway, though. Easy walk from the subway. Yeah, yeah. Uh on that on that green line.
All right, all right. So, uh, since Nastasia has to leave early, she wants everyone to know. I'm assuming this is what you want to talk about, Stas. Yes. Everyone should get excited because your dumbest bartender is coming to town.
Get excited. Uh, we are going to uh Nastasia and I will be making an appearance next Monday. That is, so if you're not a Patreon listener, it means you just heard this like right now, you gotta leave right now if you're not on the Patreon. Uh on Monday, I don't know what time starting, but we'll he'll put stuff out. But Mike Capo Ferry's new bar night on earth, we're gonna be there and we're gonna sling, I don't know, like three or four drinks until those from Contra, uh first come, first serve until those drinks are done.
Is that pretty accurate, Saz? Yeah. That's true. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna try to do a class, but uh it fell through.
So I was gonna try to do a class on that Tuesday, but fell through. Sponsor fell through. So, you know. And you you know, you can't do it for free because there's it just takes a lot of stuff. Yeah.
You know what I mean? It just takes a lot of stuff to do. But if there is a sponsor that's listening, let us know. Yeah. Yep.
All right. So uh I don't want anyone to say ever, Nastasia, that like uh I never do anything that you want to do, like you said on the radio last week or whatever. But okay. This is actually an opportunity. This is like when Maria Gorna Shelley kept begging me to meet with you, and you were like, I don't want to meet her.
I don't want to meet her. And I was like, okay, but it's important. And then you got this great book out of it. So I'm like, hey, there's this opportunity in LA, which is not the pop up. Yeah.
So we will see how this I I'm pretty sure that Nastasi and I are gonna have another opportunity to work together, which yay. And then we're probably gonna have an opportunity to not get paid together. But we will see whether or not we have yet another opportunity to not get paid together. Let's hope so. That's our favorite.
That's our five favorite. It's our favorite. Like, you know, listen, if anyone out there has uh like some sort of a project where we can put in maximal work and care and like really do like the best possible job that our decades of experience doing this kind of thing, and then just not pay us, just give us a call. We're in. Anyway.
All right. Any good uh any good any good food stories before you have to hightail it there, S. Um, before before you start, before you start, a question for you before I forget. Where does high tail come from? Is it animals that if they if their tail is low, it'll drag through the poop that they just did?
What is it? I think when animals are scared, their tail raised and they run, right? Uh okay, fair. That's good. Yeah, but yeah, it's like a bull a bull tail like raise when it runs.
All right, sorry, Stas. Go ahead. Sorry, sorry. I ate at the place called Heartwood in Mexico, which everybody raised out, and it was fine. So they don't burn any sap wood at all, just heartwood only.
H A R T. I don't know. Oh, heart like their but they they're an actual restaurant though. They're not like they're not they're not like Monterey is now where it's just pop-ups only. No, it's an actual restaurant.
Yeah. Um, it was fine. All right. Any anything stand out as being particularly good, bad, or particularly meh? Well.
So I don't know if you heard it because you're down in uh in Mexico, but sad news of I mean, many sad things, of course, happened this last weekend, but uh in terms of my tiny little world, Andre Soltner died. He was ninety two years old. For those of you that don't know, Andre Soltner was one of the original, well, this is not why he he's famous, but he was one of the original deans at the French Culinary Institute where Anastasia and I met, where I was the director of culinary technology. The only remaining original dean is Jacques Therese, uh, you know, which young people probably know from nailed it, which is so crazy to me. But Andre Soltner uh had what was by many accounts the best restaurant in the United States for decades called Lutes.
And uh in fact, uh it was featured in Mad Men because it opened right around the time that Mad Men was set to start. And so they have a very early like version of Lutes in the uh I think season one of Mad Men. And when I was a kid in the 70s, it was the it was the restaurant that I wanted to go to most. And I remember I wanted to go alone back when I thought solo dining was cool. I I hate solo dining now, but I didn't end up going alone.
I think I went with my dad when I was like 11 in like 1982. I still remember it and then so it was a huge honor to get to work with Andre. Andre was a total sweetheart, complete sweetheart, and like a chef chef, and like one of those old school things that doesn't make sense anymore, where if the restaurant was open, he was in the restaurant. His wife ran he was basically GM ran the front of house, and it was their team, and uh they ran it together, and they if if it was open, those two were there. Uh yeah.
And then, you know, she he nursed her until she finally passed away, found a second kind of love, and then finally, you know, uh I mean he's 92, so but still great guy. Totally humble. Came into the bookstore once. I mean, I spotted him right away, but he was looking around and he finally came over and very diffidently introduced himself. Like I happened, I used to have this restaurant.
I was like, yes. And I I first heard about Lutes when I got to work in publishing. And uh I was handed my corporate expense card and a list of five restaurants that were too expensive to eat at. And the top of it was Lutes. And I it was forbidden.
So did but you win eventually, no? No, I never knew. Oh my goodness. Uh well, you know. Many regrets.
I feel like, you know, I would when I was there, they were probably 20 years in or something like that. Uh uh, 20 years into like a 40 year run. And yeah, it was great. I mean, even from a kid's perspective, I mean, you know, completely, completely on point. And so he used to do demos all the time, and so he would always he was Alzatian, right?
So he had this kind of like Alzatian accent. Buy's the best, waste nothing. You know what I mean? And then like he would that was what he would say constantly, buy the best, waste nothing. And then, like, I remember he told me that he never had a vacuum machine because he buys fresh every day.
Why would he need a vacuum machine? I was like, okay, Chef. You know what I mean? Okay, chef. Uh, but uh, yeah, he uh he used to cook giant, he would get these giant, giant rondo's styles.
You remember this when he was doing his demos, almost all the other deans, they would have whoever was running the amphitheater, which is where people would like do all of their prep. Andre Soltner would show up at the crack whenever he had a demo day, get a rondo as big as he was, huge, and just slice infinity onions and just sit there and take his onions down for hours. Hours. He would always tell the same joke about how when he was a kid, he would hide his he would hide his uh glass of booze or you know, his bottle of booze in the rondo with like take take sips out of it. But uh yeah, just a real class act.
Uh real class act. We'll be missed. Um very also like very generous with it with his uh information and time. Just you know, not I bet you I think they were one of the original silent kitchens, right? He didn't talk in the kitchen.
I don't know. I don't know about that. Um I mean it wouldn't surprise me. He was so um sort of like smooth and unperturbable. Yeah, yeah.
Anyway. I remember this. I had a mean duck when I was there. Dude knew how to cook a duck. But uh anyway, all right.
So uh anything else from the past uh week? Uh Jack, you all uh safe there in LA? Are things mellowing out or what? Yeah, yeah. Things are relatively normal, relatively normal again here.
Um I I did start cooking through the Mother Jaffrey Indor Indian cookery book, which I'm sure is at Kitchen Arts and Letters. Well, which one? Doesn't she have like a billion? So like the old one. Oh, Invitation.
No, just uh Jeffrey's Indian cookery. Uh-huh. A lot of them have very similar titles. So they too, I know. It's kind of confusing.
Um, but man, those recipes, they really they really still hit. Yeah. Does anyone still read uh uh Krishna's cuisine? Uh Yamuna Devi. People seek it out.
I mean, it's not in printed anymore. I don't know. That was like the book like 30 years ago, right? It was it was uh the rival to the to the funny. Yeah.
That's the one I that's the first cookbook I got. It was I mean first Indian cookbook that I got, and it was let's just say Daunting. It was immersive, definitely immersive. I mean, it you know, she was uh an outsider, uh taking you inside. So it was a very passionate, deep, deep, deep dive.
Um it had a troubled publishing history. It was sort of a started with the small company that never quite had the money to keep it going. They partnered with the bigger company that got bought up and you know, in the way publishing in the n late 20th century was swallowed and swallowed and swallowed. But the copy I have is white and looks like it was printed by a trade publisher. Yeah, it might say Bala books on the spine.
That's the original publisher, then it became E. P. Thutton, and then uh I don't know if it ever became Penguin USA, but they got swallowed by Penguin then. Yeah. That's that's a nightmare being swallowed by a penguin.
That means you're a tiny gross fish. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Uh have you ever read the book Hoosh? The one about uh the Antarctic.
Yes. Yes. Cooking penguins, mainly. It's mainly how to cook penguin and how to cook seal. Those are the two things that they would cook or penguins and seals, the occasional other mammal like a walrus and stuff.
But apparently penguins, not bad, but they are different stuff, you know, species to species. I forget which one was the best penguin, which made the best hoosh, which is the for those of you who don't know, that's the Antarctic stew that you know, all of the researchers would have and and the the mush folks would have down there when they were hoosh. Not a great book, I don't think, but it's the only book on the subject. When you're the only book on the subject you get to be as good as you want to be. Yeah.
Yeah. You know of any other Antarctic cookbooks. There was a memoir of somebody going down there to the station that included a lot of food material, but I cannot remember the title. We carried it briefly and and Hoosha always just sort of overwhelmed it. So I like the idea that Hoosh, a book that I'm sure you and I are the only people who can hear this who have ever read overwhelmed another book.
Well, you know, that's that's that's about working in a niche. Yeah. All right, all right. Uh we have a caller, a caller, you're on the air. Hey Dave, it's uh Nikki Sanguich out in Jersey.
Hey, what's up? Um, so I've got a uh a little commercial uh oven and uh or uh you know what if I wanted to get a little more airflow in there, uh uh is there any way I would be able to do that? I mean, look, there's always a way. But the question is there's a couple of questions. When you say it's a commercial oven, is this in a commercial establishment?
So your insurance is. I got a suppression s system. I got you know. Yeah, be aware that if you modify your commercial restaurant equipment that you might be in trouble from an insurance standpoint, especially if people other than you are going to use it if it's a permanent modification. I just got to say that uh right from the get go.
When you say small, small smaller than a half sheet or a half sheet. You no, you can get you can get a full sheet in there. It's just you gotta put it in, you know, a long way. Okay. Oh, so it's like it's n it's it's it's narrow but deep.
So it's like full depth, but okay, okay. Uh yeah, it's it's it can be you look, there are I'm trying to think, is this true? I mean, and you don't want to cut a hole in it. You can cut a hole in it. That'll increase the airflow for sure.
Um you know, the only other way is to take up some of is it gas or electric? Yeah. Yeah. So gas, they do have a bunch of vents into them. So there is always in I I hesitate to even tell you this, but there are vents all around those things and you can duck stuff in and out.
And obviously the fans for a convection unit are in the hot space. So what those fans typically do is they have a relatively long shaft, right? And the shaft is made of a relatively poor conductor, stainless steel. And they just pray that by the time the uh the heat energy makes it to back where the motor is, and there's usually a second cooler on the motor thing, that the shaft has gotten below about a hundred degrees C by the time it gets to the back. And that's usually the case until your bearing seizes up, and then the then the whole motor kind of sometimes can get toasted out.
But it really requires cutting a hole in the back of the oven. And by the way, totally doable. Even with enamel, you can cut a hole through the back of the oven. Uh, you know, but you know, you're really then, you know, not just avoiding the warranty, but mean uh problems with insurance. If anyone could ever trace it if there was ever a fire.
You know what I mean? Technically real easy. In fact, you can just go buy the convection unit from like, you know, you could just go online and look up like garland or whatever and buy the buy the fan. Only other problem with those fans is that they're relatively deep. So you mu depending on where you place it, you're gonna have a tough time getting the uh getting the what's it called, the the your pans in and out because they're relatively deep.
I'm holding my fingers how big that the the big commercial ones are, and I'm I want to say two and a half inches deep at least into your oven. So if that's a problem, you know, and then you're gonna have to screw the the the cover over the top so that you're you know you you're not feeding people's fingers and you're not feeding pastries into into the fan. You could try to just duct uh air in through one of the vents, but then you're losing one of the vents. Uh all of this is possible. I don't know of a system that can handle a high high heat.
I mean, if you made everything out of silicone, you could, but a motor that's jet that's designed for the motor to run at oven temperatures, I don't know. You know what I mean? Because then you could just throw it in the oven, have a cord sticking out of it, and you know, it is what it is. But uh I have researched it once. Maybe someone out there knows of a motor that can run at 500 Fahrenheit.
If they do, please let me know. Nice. Cool. I think you put me in uh the right direction here. I also just wanted to uh let you know my brother table top table top, tablecloth Tom.
Uh got uh spinzall over at the Met because he's the beverage guy over there. So nice. I just thought that'd be a cool thing to let you know. Oh, we appreciate it. Uh I appreciate you guys.
Keep it spinning, thanks. Uh yeah. All right. So and by the way, caller, clearly a Patreon uh member. And if you want to call in your questions uh to us or to Matt, uh calling your questions to 917-410 1507.
That's 917-410-1507. And uh John, why don't you tell them how they can become a Patreon member or what they get? Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues, uh become a member. We got a couple different membership levels, including free, um couple paying ones too. You get access to our live video feed to the phone number to call us, prioritize questions being answered, uh discounts with great vendors that we work with, like Matt at uh Kitchen Arts and Letters.
Um and yeah, just a whole bunch of great things, access to Discord and yeah, go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues and check it all out. Cool. Cool. Uh Quinn, what do you got for us this week? Uh see we got five fresh chickens from our farmer friend.
So we did a I think pretty well executed, like high-needed uh chicken rice. We even got like some frozen panda for the broth. So basically it's a poached chicken, chilled, sliced, and then you make the rice with the resulting broth. You know, pretty simple, but uh, you know, a very nice dish. And I think I think it suited these sort of like very free range, you know, less industrial uh chickens.
It's taken me, it took me a long time to kind of learn to appreciate Hannanese chicken. Nils Norin, my you know, old uh compatriot, the French Colonial Institute. I don't know whether he ever actually started the restaurant, but he did uh like years of work on trying to get the perfect low temp chills, like high throughput uh recipe for that. Because his, you know, wife is like uh I think she I know she's Chinese, but I think she's Singapore Chinese. And so, like, you know, they he used to do a really good, really, really good job of it, but like really pure, simple broth, really simple, really pure.
But it took me a long time to be like, yeah, this is what I want. I mean, I'm I'm straight up American, so like I like, you know, I like when I want a cold chicken, I want chicken salad. Because you know what chicken salad is? Anybody? Anybody?
Delicious. Delicious. Delicious. Oh my goodness, this chicken salad delicious. But like, you know, typically an American chicken salad, there's none of the soft skin, none of that stuff.
So uh I don't know. I don't know. You know, and the little gilled part in those cold chicken things can be tough for some people. I no one in the United States, very few people in the United States, not no one. Going back to the French weasels, no one likes an aspic.
You know what I'm saying? No one's tucking in to a you know, you're like, you're like, ew, you know what I want? Uph en aspique. You know what I mean? Like a just a a soft boiled egg in a block of in a block of meat jello.
You know what I mean? It is making a comeback, though. Why? It is. No.
Some uh new like French beast or kind of places have been putting in on their menus here in the city. Do you remember see the uh the old uh Saturday nive uh crystal gravy? No. It's like that. Crystal gravy was this thing where they were saying that they're by the way, it's kind of funny for someone who like we sell stuff to clarify things with a centrifuge, so it's making fun of like trying to make everything clear and color like Pepsi clear.
Remember that? Oh god. Yeah. And so they are pretending that they've made gravy clear, but really they're just pouring corn syrup over everything. So it's this incredibly thick, viscous.
And my son Dax, this is crazy, like gross stuff is coming back. Dax sends me, they're now selling thick water, which is just thicken, I swear to Christ, thickened water. And Dax sends me a picture of a gallon jug of this stuff. And I remember specifically when I was teaching hydrocolloids at the French Culinary Institute, thickening just plain water so people could taste the texture. And it was one of the most vile taste experiences that you could ever have.
It's just vile. Thick water is vile. You know what I mean? And people are paying for this? Oh yeah.
Well, that's like, do you remember? Well, probably not because hopefully you were insulated from this, but there was a there was a thing called a raindrop cake. Did you ever see this? No. It's just a block of agar.
Just a block of agar in the shape of a giant ball. And then people are like, oh, it's it's a it's not like A, not cake. B, not good. C, why? See, you know, D, like everyone knows how to use agar.
You're not inventing anything here. You're just dumb. You're just a dummy. And it's not even a good hydro for that. You know what I mean?
Like they could have done gel-and. They could have done, they could have done anything other than what they had done. Nightmare. Uh how the heck did we get on this? What were we talking about?
What the heck happened? Quinn's chicken. Oh, yeah. GLA, aspic. Yeah.
Oh, that's nice. So did you enjoy the fact that it was uh was it tougher? How do you know how old the chickens were when they were slaughtered? I don't know, but I I can find out. Yeah.
Um I think they would probably have been have been tougher with like a traditional sort of Western quick cooking method, but I mean, I wouldn't rank on the well, I wouldn't rank on our cooking techniques just because you don't like our industrial chickens. I mean I'm saying like tougher chickens don't handle quick cooking as well. I don't know that that's I've had like when I've had tough chickens, even when they're braised, they are tough as all get out. They're tough, tough birds. You know what I mean?
Like I guess there's a middle ground. These weren't super tough. Yeah. I mean like a stringy, like a stew chicken? Oh my god.
No, no. These weren't these were not like old, old chickens. They were just well raised standard uh cornish cross. Again, this farmer we get them from has a bunch of like weird, interesting breeds, but he like sells the living chickens to people. The living chickens is uh sounds like a band, the living chickens.
Uh so I had something with chickens. That's just erased from my mind. It's gone. I had something with chickens, but it doesn't matter. It's over now.
They'll be back. They'll be back. Uh oh, you know what I've never I've I've bought what they call in uh Asian markets around here, uh fowl, which are older birds. But I don't know that I've ever bought like an old school spent like that where it specifically said this is a spent laying hen, like a very, very old, to do like the classic Jewish grandma chicken soup. I don't think I've ever cooked that myself.
Yeah, I don't know where you find them unless you're near a farm. Yeah. Or an industrial laying operation. Yeah. But Quinn, that's what you should do, man.
Just f ask this farmer. See if you can get a really old spent laying. If you're lucky, it'll have like the eggs left in it. We're we're asking this guy for all kinds of crap. Yeah, but listen.
He does occasionally process one of the weird chickens. He's gut-laying chickens. He's also got emo. Right, but you know, it's a little large. It's a lot of soup.
But listen, I encourage you, for my sake, when you get the spent layer, just follow a traditional recipe so you can see what the bird itself does. Like, I don't know who, Joe Nathan? Who would you who would you look at? Joe Nathan's book? Or yeah, or Jenny Grossinger.
Yeah. All right, there you go. Go back before industrial chicken. Pre pre industrial. Yeah.
Pre-industry. I'll tell you what, Popeyes takes industrial chicken and makes a delicious fried chicken product out of it in a very mass market sort of way. You know what I mean? I mean, if you like fried chicken, I mean there are better fried chickens, but is there a easier better fried chicken to source? No.
No. No. No, there's not. Easier than Papa's. Oh, I've got a live I have a live update from my father about laying chickens.
Okay. Apparently the farmer usually sells the laying chickens to other people. They do not get old in his possession. No. Well, you have to find a different farmer then.
Because that's the that's the thing. And in fact, when you slaughter it just right, you have the eggs that are left in it when they get slaughtered, right? That's the old thing, and you have like the apparently there is the troublesome roosters. There are different applications. Yeah, no eggs, no eggs in a rooster.
No, no eggs in a room. We can make a I don't know that those do you know, Matt? Were those originally made actually with roosters, or is it just called that? I don't know. That's a I mean, it's a fair question.
I I would think somebody who knows more about French than I do might have some insight, but I John, Johnny John. I don't know. I think I've only s seen or heard about it being used with old spent. I mean, it's gotta come from somewhere. The issue with the like roosters is there's just not that many of them.
Exactly. Yeah, because you know them all. You don't want them. They're vicious creatures. Chickens were fighting birds.
You know what I mean? They're vicious. Me not the ch but that the roosters. Mean. Uh and so you just don't have that many around because they cause problems.
You have like one or two, and then the rest get chummed up when they're babies. Anyways. Uh what about you, molecules? You haven't chimed in yet. What's that?
You haven't chimed in. What do you got for the week? The Jack of the Week in review. Yeah, yeah. I talked about cooking uh I made the minced minced lamb and meat and uh green lentils and spinach.
It's delicious. Minced lamb meat. That's about it's really the only interesting thing I did in food, though. So Harold McGee talks about this Turkish lamb where you have to sit there with your hands for like an hour and just keep squeezing it and make it into a paste. And he says it's great, but just it sounds repulsive.
The idea of eating something that I can picture someone sitting there and squeezing with their hand for an hour just doesn't seem to me to be what I am looking for. I would prefer to have it and then later hear how it was made, you know. It it would not be the thing I would leave you with on a menu description. Yeah. Or although maybe it was less time than that, but just I can picture McGee making the hand motions.
So he's talking to you in like his standard McGee voice, and then he's got his hands and he's sitting there just like mangling, like, you know, squeezing this like uh like like uh not uh what's the word? It's uh you know, air meat. You know what I mean? Uh yeah. Sort of conjures the act of milking a cow and uh manipulation of the other.
Yeah. Yeah. There's also something you might not want to think about a lot. Yeah, no. Especially not now that people are getting sick milking cows from uh it's not uh no no uh no no no no future bandame talk.
Nothing, nothing. Okay. Uh all right. So what do you got to talk to us today? We'll get to some more uh questions later because one of them you might have something to say about, but uh let's let's before we run out of time, let's uh let's get to some classics in the feel from last year.
This is this year's classics. Uh well, this year's classics. Um this list is available on the Kitchen Arts and Letters website uh and our blog. But I um I came up with uh 14 books uh that I thought came out last year that were really outstanding. Uh some of them are people I know you've had here on the show because we have discerning insights.
Uh and plus we also ask Matt. Well Usually it's like, what do you think after you've already sort of made the approach? So I I don't usually talk you out of too much. Um Jim Meean's uh bartender's pantry. Question on this.
So when he shipped the book, when he literally shipped the book to individuals, it comes in the coolest book jacket package ever because his co-writer is a night, an industrial designer. Yes. Do you have it like that in the store? No. We that that was something he held back.
He gave us a lot of sort of fun and funky stuff. There were buttons and bookmarks and things. Did you get the sharpies? I saw the Sharpies. They signed the books in the store with the Sharpies, but we didn't get left in it.
Yeah. No, sorry, go ahead. They had a lot of fun with that. I uh this is um this is very much about understanding the ingredients you're using, not simply the spirits, but uh everything else that you might be putting uh into a drink. Um I think it's a it's a step forward.
It's not a beginner's book. Uh it's a book for somebody who has already made some investment of time and effort. Uh, and I think it rewards that really well. Um Steve Sando's bean book. He was on.
Yeah. Yes. Holy cow. Totally made me feel like I'd been slacking for the last 25 years, not cooking, you know, anything other than the three bean recipes that I make over and over. Which are um there is a lentils like Boston baked beans from uh the Joe Beef, the first Joe Beef book.
Oh, yeah, no, I don't know, yeah. Yeah, it's really it's great. And I hate Boston baked beans. Really? Because it's way always way too sweet.
Well, theirs isn't too sweet, it's got a little bit of maple syrup. What's the restaurant that was famous that went out of business in Boston that you can still buy all of their bean pots on eBay? Oh, what's the name of it? It was one of the oldest restaurants in the country. Lock Ober.
What? Luck Ober? I don't know. I'll have to look it up. Um, but A, for me, they're not from Boston.
It's Maine. And I, you know, he Sando does not like baked beans either, as you probably are aware. And so he gives I love his book, but he gives them short shrift in the book. Does not like I I told him to his, well, not to his face because he was virtual or not virtual, but you know, remote. I was like, you don't even say what kind of molasses he is.
What's wrong with you? You know what I mean? Like he's like, okay, okay, okay. You know what I mean? It's like he wants you to buy this Indio oregano, which by the way, is delicious.
Delicious. Like uh Wiley came over, Wiley Dufranc came over to my house, and we were making, I forget what we were making, but I was like, here's some oregano. And he's like, this is fantastic. I want this for my sauce. I'm like, well, you can buy it.
Just go to Rancho Gordo. And I also gave Wiley the banana vinegar. Have you tried the banana vinegar? I haven't. Really, really good.
Seriously. Okay. Really good. But according to the reviews, keep it in the fridge because it keeps moving and it doesn't necessarily move in a good direction if you don't keep it refrigerated. Ah, okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I so I tried a lot of stuff out of the book. The book makes you want to try a bunch of beans. And as you say, Matt, it makes you be like, oh, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Because it's it's just it seems like such a basic thing, a basic staple, and it's all fresh. So it totally wakes you up. And it, you know, and I think it can be infectious, that kind of like, all right, beans, I took them for granted. I was like making the same thing over and over again.
What else am I doing? I I think any book that gets you out of a rut and out of a groove with something you think you know is triply valuable. I finally bought uh Scarlet Runners. Good. You ever cook the Scarlet Runners?
I don't think I have. I don't think I have. So they're one of those interesting ones where they go, they they there are two textures of done. So you can have like you can have it like be relatively starchy, like almost eating all no, not really, but almost like a potato, and then you could take it more into regular bean land. Good.
Huh. Like, enjoy. Big too. Big because they're a runner bean, I believe. Anyway, so yeah, good good call.
Um I really liked Camille Becerra's Bright Cooking. This is a book that's built around the initial part is a a set of condiments and related sort of pantry items. And then the later part of the book is riffing with them. And again, that's the approach to cooking that I tend to favor personally. It's like I want something in the refrigerator that I can pull out and what do I do if I try it on rice?
What do I do if I try it on beans, you know, pasta? And it's very good. It's very versatile like that. And it didn't feel like I was seeing stuff that shows up in lots of other places. So but it's stuff that's friendly to do at home, but like Chef mindset, like her, like, you know, she's professional.
So like, you know, it but is it more like stuff that like is it more her professional approach towards ingredients that are home, or is it more like home style stuff? The dishes that she actually offers are fairly professionally styled. Um the and the condiments, you know, you're making a little bit of extra effort to prepare them. They'll most of them keep just fine. You don't have to worry about like using them in three or four days.
And uh so if you're in the market for like I have to put dinner on the table in 20 minutes kind of stuff, you've got to make that long-term investment in the condiments to do it. So I mean, I think it's very restaurant-oriented in the way that she she approaches uh how she handles things. But I mean, you've got some sauce and you're like you've already made it, yeah, you throw it on some noodles and bingo, you have that that quick dinner. Or you can put it into something more elaborate because it'll definitely reward a more thoughtful approach too. Speaking of noodles, I bought a MRE style Sichuan hot pot at the local store the other day.
And what you should not do when your family is there and they're not prepared for it is smell the gas coming out of the okay, so you ever seen one of these things? Self-heating noodle bowls. You ever never seen these? It's like a it's like an MRE for Sichuan hot pot. And you put the thing in, and then this crazy steam comes out, and I smelled it.
I was like, oh you know what? And and then I so I pulled out a torch and I lit it, making hydrogen gas. Did not go over well with the family. How much did you pay for this thing? I don't know like nine bucks.
I just wanted to see what it was like. It was also crazy, crazy mala and crazy hot. But you know. Anyway. Sorry, go ahead.
I'm glad you survived. Sauce on noodles. You said sauce on noodles, so you know. I was like, don't don't do that. Don't light, don't light don't smell a gas and then light side gas when it's in a plastic vessel that's heating an unknown MRE in a language that no one in your house can understand or read.
You know what I mean? Anyway. Safety issues. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh The Crop Cycle by Shane Mitchell. Uh these are a series of articles that have appeared over the years on uh Bitter Southerner. Now this book, i is this even on Amazon? I didn't see it. No.
But it looks like well product it's like produced. It's not like a Southerner produces it. They sell it themselves. We sell it at Kitchen Arts and Letters. I think a couple of other indie stores do.
Wait, did I hear this? You have to you cannot buy it on Amazon. We we love books like that. Yeah. Uh no, I mean that's part of what we do is try to find things that are not gonna show up, you know, and enrich the oligarchs because they don't need to be enriched.
Right. So but talk talk about the so it's a series of essays, but like talk about someone is this the one that had like all kinds of crazy rando information that's cool in it? Or there's a couple of those in here. There I mean I think I haven't read her other what's her Magnum one, like strange foods far afield yet. Um I mean, over for the last 25 years or more, she's been writing, you know, in Sever and um other places about local food customs and about uh the people who maintain them, the people who keep them going.
Um and she's done uh Far A Field has articles about uh tarot farmers in Hawaii and about I think goat herds in India. Um I didn't check that out before I left. Goat herds, yeah. But I mean, you know, there are all kinds of local food ways that survive because somebody is is passionate about holding on to a tradition, and otherwise they might be left behind. Um Crop Cycle is definitely the American South, although she lives in Upper New York State.
She has a lot of family from from the South. Um she is writing about those people who keep those ways going. And sometimes it's um it's a whole community, and sometimes it may be just a few people who are who are holding on to these things. Um she's so perceptive and um and so able to get people to confide in her and to talk to her. She's a very patient writer and interviewer.
And um if you wonder about what we may not be in touch with because it's just not I mean, we live in a in a culture of immediacy right now. I mean, you know, with or without certain social media apps surviving this week. It's always like, what can you do for me in in 20 seconds? These are not those people. Um and she's she's preserving them and expanding the number of people who know about them.
And are there recipes as well or no? Or is it more just like No, I mean, there may be like an occasional illustrative recipe, but I don't think that's not really the point of the book. This is about who are what are these foods? What are people what are people doing to keep keep the old ways alive? Nice.
All right. Um The Editor by Sarah Franklin is a biography of Judith Jones, who was with Maria Groana Shelley, one of the major American cookbook editors of the 20th century. Um Judith was a very complex figure. She was also an important editor for literary books. Um Sarah had a lot of access to Judith, who was um not a very um forthcoming person in many cases, and she opened up a lot to Sarah.
And so did other people who were part of uh Judith's life. Judith was private in a lot of ways, and her willingness to talk to Sarah Franklin meant that other people around her who might have shut down for a biographer opened up. I mean because uh they would have been ostracized? Because Judith preserved her privacy uh in many cases. I mean um she was not she didn't like to be forthcoming.
When early biographies of James Beard were being written, Judith didn't want to talk about the fact that he was gay. And she shut down inquiries along those lines. So she was she could be fiercely defensive. Um for ill. And in this case, she she wasn't.
She opened up to Franklin, who um who had earlier done, she did a book three or four years ago, a collection of uh pieces on Edna Lewis. Um and I think that sort of established for Judith that Sarah was serious. So this book is is uncommonly rich because she had access to to things that biographers often don't have. And as a biography, uh if you're not necessarily a hundred percent in the food world as a page turner, is this gonna be a movie someday? Is this like gonna be the new uh whatever those movies are?
Um I would I would there's a there are a lot of elements that can make that happen. I mean, Judith was the woman who pulled the diary of Anne Frank out of the slush pile. Uh she edited Updike, she edited all kinds of big and glamorous names. Um her personal life was certainly rich and I won't say complicated, but it wasn't all an easy path for her. Uh I would probably have to be totally rewritten to make a movie of the week.
But she's I mean, she's a major figure. Nice. And uh and it's good that we have this kind of record. Because people like that who often stand behind the scenes have an influence that is sometimes unappreciated. Like Michael Batterbury.
Yeah. And that's something that comes out in actually in Sarah's book on Edward Lewis is how um Judith's approach to uh the taste of country cooking shaped everything that happened with Edna afterward. Uh maybe not all of it uh appreciated by Edna's friends, but it's what we have. Um and so knowing about who these people are uh can make a big difference to understanding how the whole cultural terrain gets leveled or shaped. The tastemaker.
All right, awesome. I I know this next one. Flavorama, Ariel Johnson, totally uh I think inspiring and fresh and creative. And there are people who and I'm not pointing any fingers, people who are brilliant in the way they understand things, who don't necessarily do a good job of explaining them to other people. She has both gifts, you know, like firing with two two pistols.
Yeah, you should go buy that. She also did the art. Yeah. Go buy it. You should go buy it.
What you should do is go buy it from Kitchen Arts and Letters. We have it. Do you have signed copies? Not right now. I have to call her up.
Yeah. Yeah. Get her back in. Exactly. Sold out at Christmas time.
Nice. Good job, Ariel. Uh Food of Southern Thailand by Austin Bush. Haven't you mentioned this one to me before or no? I don't think I did.
All right, go ahead. But um beautifully photographed book. He did a book on Northern Thailand um six years or so ago, won a bunch of awards. This one's too early to know whether it will win awards, but it is um enticing and immersive. And uh we don't have much about Thailand that really talks about the regional differences.
Uh so it sort of all gets lumped together like I mean it's more complicated than just what you find in Thai restaurants. But in this one, he's really sort of saying this is the southern cuisine, the coastal cuisine. Um, these are the things that shape it. Um I'm always in favor of something that uh that gives us better insight into the cuisine as it's experienced on the ground, as opposed to what we see in restaurants in New York. Right.
And he was like uh is another example of he l lived or is living in Thailand for a long time, similar to Ricker, but Ricker's north most of the time. And but he's put the time in. Yes. Right. And so, but also understands kind of our universe as well.
So it's kind of an interesting thing. Yeah, I mean, he grew up uh grew up on the West Coast, grew up in Oregon. I think he's now living in Portugal. I think he relocated in the last year or two. But um, long experience there.
So he's not just some guy saying, Oh, look, Thailand is fun. I will write a book. Yeah. That phenomenon happens often enough. But is this his second book on Thailand?
Exactly. Got the north, and I got the south. All right. Maybe east and west. I don't know.
You know, I've never been to Thailand or to Portugal. Me neither. Yeah. Need to go to both. I would like to.
Yeah. Happily. Uh Islas by Ivan Diaz. This is a book that links the cooking of tropical islands around the world. Uh when I first heard about this book, I was like, well, yeah.
Um but her approach is really interesting because she's she's approaching it by technique. Um I noticed one of the last chapters is is Pitt and Steam Cooking. Now, are they all modified to do like a normal human being? Or does she actually go out and be like, here's how you dig a hole in the ground and et cetera, et cetera. Because there are no good, real good books on how to learn how to dig a hole in the ground and cook a bunch of stuff.
I wouldn't sell that book on the basis of the whole digging. No. Is there a good book on digging a hole in the ground? It's a book on North Carolina barbecue. After the one that was done by the press that's mainly after that original Chapel Hill book from the early 90s that went through and did the North Carolina tour.
You know the one I'm talking about? Early 90s. No, this is one is later. There's a University of North Carolina press book. I think it's just called Carolina Barbecue.
I haven't looked at it in a while. I'd have to pull it off the shelf. But it does hole in the ground stuff. Like I want like real like dig a hole in the ground, get a sheet of zinc, the whole you know what I mean? I don't know about the zinc.
That's like Puerto Rico, right? Dig a hole in the ground, then you put a metal over, then you cover it over. Anyway, there needs someone needs to write the definitive book on how to dig a hole in the ground and cook a big hunk of stuff in it. I I would put a book like that in the window. Um I mean, this is I don't want to go off too far on this tangent about how I'm furious with uh with publishing this season, but every freaking book, every other freaking book is uh, you know, I'm an influencer, and here are my recipes.
And I'm like, do we have anybody here who has long-term experience and insight, or are they just pretty to look at? Um but yeah, I mean, I uh it's a I would imagine that there's a lot to be said about that from all kinds of, you know, what's the soil like? Yeah. I want like the bread builder's book, which was the original uh hearth uh how to build a uh uh uh uh Woodfired oven. Yeah, wood fired oven.
I want that for digging a hole in the ground. Are they both dead, Wing and Scott? Or just one of them? Didn't one of them die from bread building? One of them died.
I don't think the other one's dead. Anyway, sorry. I digress as usual. So uh but worth getting even though you wouldn't get it necessarily for digging holes in the ground. I mean, this is the book with the recipes from Ivanow.
I mean, those things don't fall from the sky. Right. So her research is uh is wide-ranging and um and thoughtful. And she's like understanding all the different factors and what you know, why is canned meat so popular in so many island countries and cultures. Yeah.
I forgot to print the last page, so you'll have to go through them without me looking at them. I am prepared. Um so we have Jang, uh The Soul of Korean cooking by Minju Kong, which is built around three core Korean sauces. Again, um Insider's Guide. Um, I like anything that teaches you to think about food from within the cuisine as somebody who uh has grown up within it does.
We didn't have him on, but we had JDS on. And he said he learned Korean for like a year and a half to write this book just so he could go hang out over there and know this stuff. So I mean I've read some of it. It is, yeah. It's I it's it's not the last word on Korean cooking.
You know, uh it's really hard to write their last book. It's not even meant to be, though. It's not meant to be. It's like it's a way in. Yeah.
Um, and particularly if you're the kind of person who is interested in knowing how it's done, but also wants to know how you can run with it. This is this is like, you know, this is the freedom path. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh my next book was McCatless by Gary He.
I looked at the pictures that you had on the on the website. It's literally just phenomenal. Going to all crazy McDonald's is. So he went to McDonald's all over the world. He photographed the inside and the outside of these McDonald's.
He photographed their menus, he photographed food from them. He's talking about how this enormous corporate behemoth has adapted itself to local cultures in Sweden and in Japan and in Italy and you know, and and in Germany, uh, and how it alters its menus, it alters the way it presents itself. It is a fascinating picture tour. I mean, just flipping the photographs is is really interesting to see all these different buildings. But it is insightful and a little scary.
Um, just how um how deeply they they change themselves to to fit in places and how adaptable they are. Does he play favorites? No, I don't think so. I mean, there are places where you can tell he's clearly sort of enjoyed a particular menu item more than others. Like anyone that you remember, like Kazakhstan's got the best.
You know what I mean? I should have I should have looked that up. I didn't, I didn't. Um the book comes in two versions. There's sort of a standard one, and there's one that comes in a slipcase that looks like a fry bag.
Ooh. So it's is that the one with the different color paper, or do they both have the paper? They both have the different colored paper on the spine, yeah. So it looks sort of like a wrapper. Oh, nice.
Yeah, I appreciate it. It's really thoughtfully designed. Um he's this is years and years worth of work. Um so much McDonald's. You know, now that Morgan Spurlock is dead, he's now the historical authority on the maybe a little less um jaded when it comes to McDonald's.
Yeah, yeah. Nice. Well, like I said, he's been to all these McDonald's and still keeping the faith. So he's not a hater. No, he's not a hater.
He's not like that famous guy who wrote the book on camouflage but hates the military. I don't know that one. Yeah. Or the guy, you know, what's his name? David King, who's now dead, but graphic designer who is like uh the like wrote the books on uh the uh imagery of Stalinist Russia, uh but hated him because he was a Trotskyite, but also hated capitalism.
So I got these like like you know Wow. Yeah. He's like Trotsky was the guy. Come on. I no, I don't think Gary is secretly a Burger King guy.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Uh Wendy's. Wendy's. Or Wendy's, yeah.
Uh Nerdmaker 2, Tales from the East Indies. This looks amazing. I wanted to read this book. Christopher Tan. So this is his second Nerdmaker book.
He is an incredibly enthusiastic uh home baker, obviously remarkably skilled. And in this book, he's like the crossing up all these different influences and techniques. Um the book is crazy adventurous. He's based out of Singapore, you said, right? Based out of Singapore, yeah.
Uh he has a more traditional book called The Way of Quay, which is about a particular Singaporean dessert that is sort of occupies this unusual space between cake and pastry that is used to be a home thing that is becoming industrialized or at least restaurantized, and he's making a pitch for in that book for keeping it alive as a home practice. But in this book, this is a more personal, you know, exploration. And he's like, you know, bouncing off all kinds of influences. Um and he's just so creative and uh and so knowledgeable. And uh yeah, it's beautiful, beautifully photographed.
Comes from a really good publisher in Singapore called Epigram Books. They um they do some really interesting localized publishing. Uh we import from them quite regularly because uh because of the strength of of what they do there. So on like an import like that, how much is that stuck to cost? Uh I think it's like 55.
Yeah. So I mean 30 percent, 30, 40 percent of that is air freight. Yeah, yeah. Um we just we can't put those things on boats because you just never will know when they're gonna show up. Yeah.
Yeah. All right. Um also an import is Timur, uh Stories and Flavors from Nepal. Now, this one, I looked up the one you had on your thing, and I was like, okay. For those of you who don't know, it's it's lichen, which I forget the name of, the lichen, that is like apparently like the ingredient in this area with this group of people, the limbus, right?
And then uh a meat, I'm forgetting what it was, like lamb. You cannot source this unsourceable, but you're like, oh, I want it. And you know what I mean? Like and this guy is telling you that there are like 40 different regional and ethnic cuisines in Nepal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's that's his focus. But there are recipes, but they're not watered down. They're not like you could substitute chicken. No, no, I it's not about that. It is totally uncompromising.
Yeah, yeah. Um, if you're a fan of like, oh, snap, you know what I mean? Because that's all the kind of stuff that I like, you know. It's yeah, no, this is he's not making any concessions to the fact that you're not in Nepal. Yeah.
You should get off your ass and go to Nepal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and if you you know, you have the the courage. Um we need that kind of documentation in English because it is so hard to find it for so many places. Um this is really thoughtfully done, it's attractively designed.
He didn't just sort of, you know, type it up and send it to the local version of King Kos or FedEx and have it run off. It's a it's a good piece of book now. I like how you're bringing Kinkos back. That was a place we used to have to go get copies. Yeah, that was Yeah, yeah.
And I was, you know, so I went to college in 1981. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um used to be that they would make you buy a whole bunch of books, but then most people couldn't afford to buy all of the books for your class if you were only going to have one chapter. So they semi-legally the professors would take their collections to Kinkos and copy the section that you were supposed to read, and then you would buy these thick binders that were like one chapter from like 30 books. They're huge, huge, and you would pay like quite a bit of money.
Yeah. You know what I mean? But then you have to carry around this like stack of crappily bound zero well, not what are the copies, photocopies, you know what I mean? Uh for the whole semester. And that's the way life was, because there weren't no internet.
Yeah. And Kinkos was really smart because they always made themselves look like they were the local print shop. Yeah. Because their service was bad. Well, you know, if your stoner friend dropped out, they could probably get a job at Kinkos.
Yeah, and they could continue to read all the good stuff. That's right. Even if they weren't doing the good job. Exactly. Yeah.
Um Wild Axe Apple Exhibition, right? So the I've talked about this, I think, on this show before. Um periodically, they tried they've tried to do it annually, but there have been interferences. This group of people who who wander the world looking for Apple sports or abandoned orchards, find um unique or unusual apples. Maybe they're heirloom, heirloom varieties that have been forgotten that are growing in places.
Sometimes they find them in like the parking lot of a hospital. This tree that's producing an unusual and remarkable fruit. They get together, they photograph them, they um they describe the texture and the flavor, uh, whether it's, you know, keeping apple, whether it's a cider apple. Um they're beautifully photographed. It's um God.
Bad time for a blank spot. Mullen. Yeah, after you, yes. But I don't have that page here, but yeah. Yeah.
Um but the beautiful photography. The other thing about it, you know, for those of you that look at it, the ph photography is is, you know, beautiful, but it like in the style of but modern like beach from 19505. You know, if you but if you have the essay Beach, which of course you should have, uh, or you know, Burford's book or any of these books um on apples, like uh well not Burford, but the old ones that are written by pomologists, pomologists don't go as and it's they're only writing one or two sentences on these apples in the book on their taste, but they're written by people who like to eat apples and or use apples. So it's not it's not only because then it's like this is the date that it this is the date that it uh flowers, this is what it needs to be pollinated next to, subacid spritely. You know what I mean?
Like and that's it. Like they're describing like the taste like they're like powerful strawberry note, uh, you know, red of pineapple, like it's going off like people who are clearly apple lovers. So, you know. Um and they're hypnotically beautiful, and they're not um they're not cleaned up for industrial. So is this is this uh paper or or hard?
This is paperback. Okay. And say and because it's not that many apple varieties per year that they select, correct? Correct. Yeah.
And so how much like uh is this is this the size of like the Brooklyn Botanical Garden books or bigger? They're six by nine. So that's Brooklyn Botanical, isn't it? Maybe Brooklyn Botanical is slightly smaller. By the way, you like you like those Brooklyn Botanics.
I mean, like not that they're like fantastic books, but just as an idea, those little things. Yeah. And by the way, Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, uh the apples to what is it? The apples to grow and what is it? They have an apple book wherein they recommend that you get super dwarf uh super dwarf uh stock and make hedgerows out of zillions of varieties of apples.
And to this day it's still a goal of mine eventually. The apples to grow and what's it called? Anyway, uh there's no fabulous tubers, which is their other one. Hidden treasures. Anyway, go ahead, sir.
And finally, uh Xiaofan, Breakfast in China by Michael Zee. We don't know a lot in English language books about Chinese breakfast, and this is this is fascinating. Uh so much detail in there from all over the country. All right. So uh I will have to we'll check you check all of those out.
But like it's which percentage of these are this like you must go to. I mean, they should all go to you. And we have do we have do we have discounts on these for our people? I will set that up. Um I will do that within the next hour once I get back to the store.
Uh question that you might have an answer to. I hesitate to ask this question, but do any of you have favorite recipes for spam? I've been a lifelong enthusiast. My father got me started at a young age with spam and eggs. But I'm gonna get that too.
But I only had one minute. Yeah. Uh wondering what if anything you can do with it, obviously make Masubi, right? And obviously go read this is hor uh see the movie, this is Hormel uh from 1964. Go to 1140 uh minutes where they talk about making spam and check out their analysis unit, which I swear to God is called the anal ray unit.
And they can do 350 cans of spam a minute, which is 504,000 cans of spam a day. But uh, what do you think about a spam cookbook? Do you like the Hormel one or do you want Hawaii Cooks with Spam local recipes because Hawaii is the spam land? Hawaii is spam land. That's where I would go if you uh if you want to see what the enthusiasts are.
And uh which you should. And a question for you. I'm reading a cheesemonger's history of the British Isles by Ned Palmer at the recommendation of at Andos uh here in the Discord, and it's quite nice. I'm wondering if I can read a similar book about French cheesemaking without having to learn French. Palmer repeatedly makes it sound like France is the world capital of cheese, which made me curious, which is unbelievable as someone my age, because when I was a kid, it was there was no question that France, it's only recently, thanks to the work of other people that France isn't known everywhere as the undisputed capital of cheese.
But go ahead. All right, and last, sorry, sorry, uh Joe. Uh Matty writes saying, with small local mills seemingly in a boom looking for book recommendations on especially sourdough bread baking with fresh whole grain flowers. Uh any other classic or innovative sourdough books, welcome. Oh, any books on milling and what what's so the only one in milling one I know is really is the uh is uh Leonti's book.
Leonti's book, which is out of print, unfortunately. It's called the Flower Lab. Right. It's not impossible to find uh online. Um the Hayden Flour Mills person has a book, but it's not really about milling, right?
Yeah. Um and the milling aspect of it is the hard part. There are books that talk about using specific local flowers. Um, you know, Mother Grains by Roxana Julia Pat. Zach Culper's Bien Qui sort of urges you to do it.
Uh Richard Hart's bread book talks about experimenting with local flowers to understand how they're different. But I mean, his point of view is that whatever scientific analysis you get, you still have to work like hell with the things to figure them out. Because there's so much that isn't filled into it. If I ever finish book two, that's gonna be a big part of it. I'm still milling strong, still going through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of wheat.
The people are waiting. Oh God. All right. You shouldn't feel guilty or anything. And yeah, right.
Uh all right, so I think it's all we have time for. Uh we're all good? Matt, thanks so much for coming on. Delighted. Thank you for having me.
Remember, people, when you're going to buy a book on cooking, which you should do, consider buying it from Kitchen Arts and Letters. Yes, please. Yes. Thank you. Oh, Peterson, go to Peterson's website.
James Peterson selling all his cookbooks. Go to it. James Peterson. Peterson books. Go.
Cooking issues.
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