Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios joined as usual with John across from me. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Hey, hey, hey, hey!
Yo, got a full house today, but no guests. We got uh Quinn Fusile. Well, it's not really his name, Quinn Fuchile in the upper upper left left. Gotta call you that because that's what Siri calls you, my man. Yeah, yeah.
Uh and in Los Angeles, we have uh at the beginning of the show, she's gonna have to leave, I think. Nastasi the hammer Lopez. Hello. And uh Jackie Molecules. Yo, yo.
What's up? Nothing. So if you're listening live on Patreon, call your questions in two 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And they can only do that if they're a Patreon member, John.
Why don't you tell them how to sign up and why they might want to? You go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. There's a couple different membership levels there that help support the programming that uh we offer. We offer uh discounts with people that we work with. Uh Edwards HMES just gave us a code um that you can find on the Patreon.
How is this beef jerky that you had last week? Decadent. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah.
Did you have it? No, I gave mine to Joe. Oh, Joe. Joe. How do you think of a Joe?
Uh the Wagyu wasn't very good. What? Well, my wife is the Wagyu jerky. But you had the same one and you liked it? Yeah, I mean, it's just it's so intensely beefy because it's dry aged and then done into the jerky, so it's just like so if you like dry aged, get it.
But if you don't like the dry aged, don't get it. Get it. You're just gonna have like one piece at a time. Because it's really rich. It's also nugget style, right?
Yes. All right. Yes. I think that's what it was. It was the richness that she really didn't accustomed to.
Well, cause oh yeah, because you know, like I I I didn't have it yet, but you know, n nine times, I'm just gonna say nine point nine nine times out of a hundred, uh, jerky is gonna be the leanest possible meat because the fat can go like rancid like over time. So I tend to have my beef jerky be hyper lean. You know, in fact, it's the only useful thing to do with eye around besides tartar. True. Because it's a garbage cut.
This is a trash can cut. You know what? There are other and don't don't call me elitist on this one because you can make jerky out of it and it's fine. You know what I mean? And there are other cuts that are just as cheap, far better.
You know what I mean? So like it's okay that there's a part of the cow that's only for jerky and you know, tartar. Wagyu eye of round actually is what Jeremiah uses at uh what's it called, Contra for his beef tartare, so that he can say it's wagyu. See what I'm saying? It's like it's like it's wagyu.
What part? The hoof. You're like, well, oh card. Still wagyu, Dave. Still huggy, yeah.
Still wagyu hoof. So before Nastasia has to go, because she said she has to go, I'm gonna give her crap in an oblique way that no one can fully understand because I'm not allowed to talk about it. But Nastasia has a secret project that she's working on. Let me ask you a question, Nastasia. When is the best time to change a menu?
If you've been, let's say you've been working on a pro a project for months, months. Let's say that even months ago you did like a detailed tasting of what was gonna be on a menu. What's the best time to actually change the menu? Uh like a couple days before? Yeah, ding ding-ding.
Is a couple days before you open is the best time to change it. And is it is it is it good when is the best time to change it, the best way to change it is to have like uh money people parachute in at the last minute, not having paid attention when they were supposed to pay attention, and then sending people to random points within like a 50 mile radius of the restaurant to pick up items that they like that they're used to eating and then try to have you mimic them. Is that the best thing that you can possibly do? Holy crap. Yes.
Oh man. Wow. You know what? Yeah. It it is a damn miracle that everyone's not dead.
Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like it's like, I imagine you want to kill anyone everyone and you're not even in the kitchen. Like if if I would like you know, like cartoons when like when like uh like Elmer Fudd or whatever like turns red and like blows the stack like a steam whistle, like yeah, I would go on some kind of a rampage. Let me ask you a uh a question, Nastasia. Is it a good idea to use a completely untested POS system?
I'm just asking a random question, nothing to do with your project. No. Respect people's expertise, respect it. You know what? Like here's the thing.
No more. Okay, okay. Any money people that might be listening, like who like get your suggestions in early. I know you're busy, you're a money person, or at least, you know, you say that you're busy, right? But once you have waited too long, even if it's your money, you still don't have input.
That's it. Like you're done. Like you've given up your ability to have input until two or three months in. Then you can apply your input again. What do you think about that, Staz?
It's very generalized suggestion. Sure. Money people don't have a tendency to listen to me on that stuff anyhow. All right. So uh now that oh, also Nastasi and I uh had Nastasi had me out to uh uh one of her uh parties on the on the Friday.
Oh, here's a little secret for you. Yeah, Dave. Uh Los Angeles International Airport closes their terminal at uh like about one. So if you're going hoping to like for your 5 a.m. flight, if you're hoping to like go and into the terminal, don't because you're gonna sleep at the baggage claim.
And by the way, there are no comfortable seats at the baggage claim because it's never expected that you're going to be there. So just why don't you go ahead and enjoy that one? Uh what do you say, Stas? Well, you had your Airbnb until the next morning, Dave. Okay, but what was I gonna do?
Get up at like like we we left each other at like one and change. Then I'm gonna what go to the Airbnb, like get my stuff until like three, maybe like 2 30, and then get up after an hour and then no, you know what I mean? Good news is good news is So there's a pro move in LA in this predicament. All right. And it's going to the 20 going to the twenty-four hour Korean spa and sitting in one of the steel.
Dave would never do that. Dave would never do that. They would never do that. He would have to get naked to do that. Well, you have to get naked.
No, you wear a robe in that room. No, you can wear a robe in that room. They're a different room. No nakedness in the champagne room. Um take a nap in the steam room and then and how much is that pro room?
Uh that pro tip cost. I don't know, 35 bucks or something. That's better than another night in a hotel for for damn sure. I'll tell you something. Pretty sure they also have 24 hour Korean food in that spa as well.
Well, I was not hungry at that point. Uh so Nastasia had I'm not from it's La Tienda's brand of uh what they it's a relabel, I think, of a Bayota Fed Iberico, but it had an Italian name on it. But I what was her name, Stas? They uh licensed ham cutter. Jen uh Herman.
Okay. So she comes to the party and like busts out like this, you know, you know, Bayota Fed, you know, Pata Negra. You know that they of course they chop off the black hoof, but then she has a spare black hoof that she carries around with her and like jams on so it looks like it still has a black hoof on it, which I thought was a kind of funny move. But anyway, so she's like, You want more? I'm like, yes.
And then she's like, okay, now I'm like, yeah. And then she was like, what about now? I'm like, yeah. I think I ate most of the ham until I got that weird, greasy, slick like headache that you get. But here's the fun part.
And like they s they sell, I think they're like 14 packs or or I think they're 14 packs or 12 packs of like thick, thick tranche like like uh uh whole like foie gras entier, but like sliced into, and then they're v individually vacuumed and frozen right so there's two bags of these they they look like they're IQF shrimp bags right Stas you know what I mean like they're that look yeah and so yeah I show up and Stas is like here's a Sears all you're you're cooking these I'm like what and like you know of course they had no cast iron they had like you know what's the least pro range you could possibly imagine having Nastasia this was one level below that like the le anyway so and apologies I did not bring my dog brush so I couldn't modernist cuisine the the duck breast and apologies also to Nils who never scores duck breasts because he says it's uh gonna overcook I just wanted that sucker to render you know what I mean so Nastasia her friend Eddie and I were in the kitchen and we seers alled the hell out of that foie gras. So we just took the slices which were well how about how thick Stas like three quarters? Yeah yeah so salt a little bit by the way salt even was a problem here because we didn't have so the only sugar they had was straight up Domino's brown sugar in a bag. So I was like okay jeebus. So we lay out all of the stuff on a piece of uh aluminum foil in the only baking tray they had and salt and a little bit of sugar sears all the hell out of the top flipped them sears all them 450 oven four minutes pulled out what was that crazy toast that you that we we had to make what was that bread that uh Jeff Gordonier brought I forget the name of the I forget the name of the brand, but it was like some kind of sweet bread.
Yeah, so we cut that into into points and then uh buttered it. Sears all that, because we didn't have a toaster that could do all that. And then Stas put some freaking uh fig jam on top and then foie gras on top, sent it out. People housed it, housed it. The duck we just sliced, we had nothing to put on the duck.
So I was like, look in the fridge, they got me romaine. So they had romaine in the fridge. So Stas is like, I found some, I found some mixed berry jelly. So we got or cherry, cherry. So she puts cherry jelly on the romaine.
We sliced the duck breast. I sliced that duck breast with I think it was a hammer. Was that a knife or a hammer I used to slice? It was the dullest piece of metal I've ever used in in my life. You know what I mean?
It was like it was like beating it with a broomstick to cut it. Like the stuff we also you remember me slicing the bread, and I'm just like pouring sweat out because like I'm having to saw through it and crushing it so hard with that damn knife. Thank God the sweet bread was pre-sliced. Thank Christ. Anyway.
So, but all's well that ends well, right, Stas. Yeah, it was fun. It was good. Yeah. The whole point of these parties, I didn't do it in weird houses.
I don't have all the equipment, but I have cool views and it did have a good view of uh you know, Stas likes it up there in the Hollywood Hills or whatnot. Although get this, people. The speed limit on in these Hollywood Hills areas is 30 mile an hour. And if you drove 30 mile an hour, not only would you slam into a house, but you would kill 35 dogs and probably 12 children before you were done. I can't believe that the speed limit is 30 miles an hour, 35 miles an hour on those roads.
It's bizarre. You know what I mean? But hey, that's California for you. You know what I mean? Uh oh, the other thing that party, I thought I was slinging drinks.
Thank God I had Wes from uh Thunderbolt LA, who was my drinks partner. In fact, he did all the prep for it. We did a, this was kind of fun. We did a French 75 Carbonate because it was Bastille Day, ostensibly, right? So the first thing we did was we did four different cordials that were at 50 bricks and uh about 2% acid.
So then you add those, that's about right for adding to champagne. So we made like strawberry for red, we did a green apple. We died green for the uh for green. We did a plum that was really nice, and I forget what the fourth one was. But they were they were really nice, but most people didn't go for that.
Most people drank the French 75. So we made a recipe, which I can try to look up for you guys. I didn't bring it with me. The idea was to make a carbonated gin lemon cordial mix that could be mixed in any ratio with champagne and get and have it be good, right? So I designed it for a one-to-one mix of champagne and gin uh lemon juice, lemon cord, so gin lemon cordial, polydextrose, water, and one other thing.
I forget anyway. So, like I designed that so that it that was it's about 10 or 11% alcohol. That the the carbonated mix, and any ratio of that with champagne works. So it was kind of fun. Carbonated French 75.
We could put the recipe out there next time if you want. And last but not least, we made a drink called the Brangelina Spritz, which was I forget the name of this, uh like Angelino uh uh Amaro that's like orange heavy and kind of sweet. So it was that and a little bit of Nova Salis, of course, glassid, of course, polydextrose, carbonated, it's also good. That wrap up Wes and my involvement, Stas, or is that uh covered in smoke? Yeah.
And uh there were some weird people there. So, you know, you should definitely try to get invited to one of Nastasia's weird parties for sure. You know what I mean? And while I was there, I went to uh Jack, you weren't there, so you couldn't go with me. I was like uh 10 minutes walk or five minutes walk from uh Cafe Tropical, so I went there twice.
He doesn't care. Yeah. I had their crawler, which he talked about on the show, the maple crawler, which is good, and is plum Danish. But also I was given uh there's a fellow that works there, name a toaks, like multiple toaks, like you toke more than once, toaks. And he gave me a new product they're working on that we're gonna try here called you think it's Rosie's or Rossi's?
Rossi's. Rossi's Rosie's R-O-S-I-S. Rossi, Rosie. But Rossi would be two S's, right, Stas? Yeah.
Yeah. If you were Italian. Anyway, it's Stinger Peppers. It's like apparently Connecticut adjacent. So that's why John was like, yeah.
Okay. They're like Serranos in the shape of like a stinger, but it's a hot oil for pizza, which I guess makes sense. So anyway, Toke gave me a bottle to try. So John and I are gonna try it on some uh 85% hydration bread. What's cool about it is it comes in a freaking uh it comes in like an oil can like you might have had for uh oil, like a sewing machine oil, you know those little cans.
So anyway, I'll let John try it first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it's it it looks cool, like yellow and green and red. You know, like back when you didn't have all four colors, you only had like, you know, you could choose any two colors. Anyway, so that's that.
So what do you think? Yeah, yeah. Oh, tasty. In my family, that means it's gotta go. I gotta go do this thing.
Oh well, do you got anything else to say for yourself before you go do your thing? No, I will say I wish I could talk about it. I wish I could tell everybody everything, but I can't. She just can't. Not you like usually it's won't.
Today, it actually is can't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Accurate. Yeah. Oh, so actually, this is spicier than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah. That's got a little kick to it.
It's nice. Yeah, if anyone's familiar with like colony grill. Um yeah, bar style pizzas in Connecticut, specifically Stanford. Yeah, those are kind of hot oil that they serve there. But Ed Cornell from uh Cafe Tropical is doing this in conjunction with the is it is it a single quarter sheet, Jack, or is it multiple quarter sheets?
Quarter sheets is the name of the place. With plural, multiple sheets. They have more than one. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Although we were told last week that they in fact do not cook them in quarter sheets, they cook them in Detroit pants, but whatever, but it's got a kick to it. All right. That's right. So we know what Nastasia's doing.
She's rushing off to her secret project. What do you what's up with uh what's up with you and Quinn? Me, I'm just getting ready for my uh I'm one month away from my Asia trip, so I'm deep in my like itinerary planning and research. Where in Asia? Taiwan.
Taiwan, Hong Kong, Chongqing, Chengdu, Beijing. So I really I really want to go to I want to go to Beijing and I want to go to Changdu. I haven't been there. Beijing was a lot of fun. How long are you in Taiwan?
Taiwan's gonna be like uh six days. So I'm renting a car and driving the island too. So I'll get to go to like um Tainan and Tai Chung and some of the other cities outside of Taipei. Uh you know what I really wanted to visit. I was only in Taipei when I was there.
I really want to visit. They they have some like really cool, and probably I'm the only one that would care about this, like um, like uh I think they're Hinoki Cypress forests that you can visit that are like where now, whenever anyone needs to rebuild a temple, that's where they go. Because they've got like like the old growth, like Hinoki there, they're like, you know, kicking the real butt. And here's the thing when you're in, I think that's where it is. Anyway, I loved Taiwan.
I recommend I'm not saying what's gonna happen or what's not gonna happen in the world, but if you can go to Taiwan now, go to Taiwan now. You know what I'm saying? Like exactly not not to get, you know. And don't worry, I will be seeing the um the meat statue will will happen. Oh, yeah.
Everyone knows meat. We've talked about meat shaped stone. Listen, Jack, I have the it's the meat-shaped stone, and you have to go to the restaurant, whether you're hungry or not, and get the meat-shaped stone-shaped meat. Okay. Right?
Should I be bringing you back a souvenir meat-shaped stone keychain or something? Well, listen, you're familiar with the project, right? I own the Instagram handle, meat shape stone. You're familiar with this project, right? I've haven't I talked about this on air a thousand times?
Yes. I'll give it to you one more freaking time. I'll give you one more time, people. I need help with this. So, what you do is is you go to the National Museum in Taipei.
You see the meat-shaped stone, you pretend to care about the Jadite Napa cabbage, right? No one really cares about the cabbage, right? So you see the meat-shaped stone, you take a picture of it, you go to the restaurant, you get the meat-shaped stone-shaped meat. You take a picture of the meat-shaped, stone-shaped meat. Now, you take that to an artist and have them make a three-dimensional representation of that.
Then you take that to a chef and have them make a food version of that. Then you take that to an artist and again and again and again. So, right now, all I have is the meat shaped stone and then the meat shaped stones shape meat. I want to get to at least like five or six levels of stone-shaped meat shape, stone-shaped meat-shaped stone. You know what I'm saying?
I'll take it, I'll take it one or two steps further. Right. We just need to find some. It can't be like, you know, I used I have an MFA. I could be a part of it, but I'm a part of it.
I can't be a part of it. I know what the shtick is. So you can't like let the artist know here's what's here's what's supposed to happen. It's it's supposed to be like like a it's supposed to be like an exquisite corpse game of telephone. You know what I mean?
Where you're like tossing the football back and forth between artists and sh and and cooks, you know? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah. My theory is eventually it will be a meatball. And the real thing is, do you actually ever tell them that it needs to be meat, or do you just say food? I like that. Or do you say nothing?
Just say depict this thing. Well, make this edible. You have to say make this edible, right? Right, right, right. Yeah.
Yeah. Or make this a sculpture. But you don't want something, you don't want something being crazy. Yeah. It would become a eventually it would become a meatball, and then one of those like Japanese style polished mud balls.
Are they, I mean, oh, as the uh as the as the art after the meatball? Maybe. You never know. Like my theory is that once it becomes a meatball, it stays a meatball. Like maybe it turns into a fishball or whatever, but it basically once it becomes a ball, I think it stays a ball.
I don't think it unballs itself. I think like nature wants to shrink the meat-shaped stone into a sphere. That's my guess. If if I had to guess anyway, I think like if it was a little squatter, or not squatter, if it was a little flatter, it might turn into a sheet. But I think as it is, it's turning, it wants to turn into a I think there's a uh a weird kind of saddle point.
It like there's an attractor. And I think one of those attractors is sheet. Uh one of those attractors perhaps is cube and one is sphere, but I'm pretty sure that's in the pretty sure it's solidly into the sphere zone of uh shape attraction in games of telephone. But yeah, we'll see because Jack's gonna work on it. So you know, he said he is, so he's promised.
I got you. Yeah, all right. But I have promised him. All right, all right. Uh then you're gonna you're gonna like smuggle like a whole bunch of like uh fresh green uh Sichuan pill uh peppercorn back in.
I mean, I don't know about fresh, but how am I gonna smuggle them fresh? Fresh ish. And how well how well do they stay when they're fresh? But yeah, fresh-ish. I don't know.
I mean some good dried, right? Yeah, but the greens like in the sauces, like when they just throw like handful after handful of the greens into the sauce. Oh, I know. Oh my god. I'm not even sure where to get good green dried um Sichuan peppercorns anyway.
So I'm gonna definitely come back with a bunch of that. Yeah, I don't know that we can. Like McGee has a good hookup from like uh I forget what the name of the company is, like the people who make the what he considers to be the best Sichuan oil, is it 50 hertz? Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, 50 hertz is free.
Yeah. Although I I have to say, I think that's a a bullcrap name because they're like, oh, it's it it's the sensation is 50 hertz. No, it was it was done by people whose electricity runs at 50 hertz. So they're like, it's like getting shocked from an electric socket. If you tested it in the United States, people would be like, oh, it's 60 hertz.
You know what I mean? Dummies. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
Try differentiating an electric shock at 50 to the different hertz on your tongue. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm not sure. I'm getting shocked 20% slower.
Oh my god. Sichuan peppercorns taste so different in the UK. Dumb. Um, just dumb. Um you know what?
Anyway, I won't get into it. Uh all right, Queenie Queen, what do you got, man? I didn't do any major cooking, but I did do some interesting uh, well, for me, tasting, because we found a new to us fancy cheese shop a few turns over. So we're gonna have a wide selection of cheeses, some like uh to be more specific. What's related?
All right. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, uh I'm getting to there. Yeah, I had my my first uh applause. Oh, yeah, that's good stuff.
How how ammoniacal was it? Um I didn't get a big whiff of like the the main junk. It was always like on a cracker, so the smell was not too bad. Yeah, I like it, plus I I'll eat a lot of it. Apparently I saw some of my family like smell the the primary piece.
There was some uh interesting reaction. Yeah, well, you know, it's like uh it's like the this is spinal tap, smell the glove. You gotta love it. You know what I mean? Because it poise, I have to say it's delicious, but it poise the texture of it, even when it's runny, there's like a firmness, there's something to it poise that like I wish that it was slightly different.
Yeah, it's never as runny as you want it to be, I think also, even when you heat it up a little bit. It's just yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why, because it's not firm, but it's somehow it has this weird textural thing. I don't know whether it has to do with uh the bacteria on it, but I mean, you know, what's my favorite washed rind?
I used to, you know what I haven't had in years is a really good like monster. You know what I'm saying? But my problem with those is that they get little grains on the skin sometimes. I don't like the grains, you know what I mean? The little like crystal y craps.
Yeah. I don't love that. I don't know. My favorite runny cheese, my favorite cheese is is Vash Ramondor. But it has to be you get it from you can even people who fly it into the United States, that's some bull crap.
You gotta go to like France, Switzerland between like I think late December and like like early February. Like that's the rock and roll time. And you gotta get a big one that's aged to perfection. If you're in Paris, I reck I recommend Bartolomé. And when you go there and you ask for it, the Vachramondor, when they start handing it to you, give them the stink eye so that they give you the good one.
Make sure you get the good one. You don't want the bull crap one that they're gonna sell to tourists. That really is God's cheese. And I love all cheeses, not all cheeses. I hate yay toast.
But other than that, you know. Why aren't there more cheese cart services? I don't know. I told you that. That's the best time.
Best thing that's ever happened to me. Absolutely best. Cheese cart shows up. Man, person just sits there with a with like a half smile on their face, just like cutting cheeses. So great.
Best best single sentence anyone's ever said to me was I picked out all I was at uh Lepre Catalan, which I've told the story a million times, three star restaurant in the Bois de Boulogne in Paris. I think it I think it's I think I'm choosing cheese. Jen said, my wife said, you know, you choose the cheese. I was like, okay. So like, you know, I let her choose the wine, whatever, I choose cheese.
And so, you know, I choose all these cheeses, he slices them, puts them on a plate, and then hands them to Jen and says, uh or no, hands them to me and says pour La Madame. I was like, boom, boom, boom! I chose a whole nother set of cheeses. Best best sentence anyone's ever said to me. God, it's the greatest.
But yeah, why don't you think we have it? That's too expensive. Too expensive, yeah. And not enough Americans will like consume cheese at the end of the meal. I was thinking we're also a lot of us, although Marie Guarnicelli, Maria Guarnashelli, my editor said that I think she said that one of the worst things about America is that we eat cheese before our meal instead of after.
Uh and I do eat cheese before my meal just 'cause that's c what I'm conditioned to do, but I also really like it after. If someone says to you, I don't care who's listening, someone as long as you can consume it. Someone says to you, Would you like cheese or dessert? You'd say, Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Both. If they shirt up with like a cheese cart, like a dim sum style cheese cart at the end of a meal, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would say yes to that. Especially if it was just, you know, little plates pre-cut. They're like, Do you want this?
Uh yes. Yeah, but the real killer is when they show up with the blocks and then you like they tell you what they have, and then they cut the block for you and arrange it on the plate. It's the sickest service. But the issue is is that like, you know, like to really do it right, you need like I don't know, 10, 15 cheeses, something like that. Yeah, under the under the glass.
They can't be weeping. So like most Americans, like they're not invested enough in it to have enough cheese there to have it worth their while. They're not really we not willing to lose anything or like use it for a different purpose. And so you know, but oh my god. I mean, honestly, so many people with money here that you could probably charge whatever the hell you want, you know?
Yeah, because it's the Vegas, I feel like. Oh my god. Vegas would be the place to pull it off. Yeah, I don't know. I love a cheat cheese card.
Billion blank checks out there. Yeah. Yeah. Like a conveyor belt cheese situation. Oh yeah.
Pay by the pay by the plate. Yeah. This is not a terrible idea. Why did Artisanal go out of this? That was a good idea.
I don't know. It was pretty good. Yeah, the Kitan Kai ten like charcuterie and cheese. Yeah. Oh my God.
You send around like the different like you pick you could pick up like a bread and bread and jam or bread and butter and bread and jam plate, then you pick up your your the meat that you want and the cheese that you want. Different butters too. Different fruits and yeah, different like different composts and stuff. Guys, are we onto something here? Oh my god.
Kite. Kai ten. You know, different days. You can do different Italian. Oh yeah.
Wash rhyme days, fresh cheese days. Yeah, yeah. What about the boca or something? What'd you say? Oh, the book running.
This is not an idea that one can be cut this. Yeah, no, no. We gotta this is like this is first of all. Everybody, you're welcome. Here we are.
Exactly. You're welcome. Giving away more great ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, you know, yeah, dude, like what comes free at Kai at Kai 10 charcuterie, the olive oil.
Well, maybe one of the types. I don't know. You could really go crazy. Different olives, different types of nuts. Wait, Quinn says the bread should come free.
What makes you like what makes you consume more? What makes you get more plates? That's what you get. Cracker. I don't know.
I like a couple of crackers, but what I really want is bread. But I think Quinn is onto something here. If we give them too much bread, they're gonna fill up. Yes. They're gonna fill up.
True. Hmm. You want to give them a little bit? Maybe it's the olives. We're gonna sell a lot of liquor, Joe, for sure.
The most dangerous thing about this new cheese shop rediscovered is they have French cultured salted butter. Which one? The barat? And we got um which one book is like um igni or something. Yeah, yeah.
Uh in my neighborhood, they look they're all barat coat. It's like barud. Same reason. Yeah, how good can butter be? And pretty pretty damn good.
I've had that. You know what? Since you are Italian, you need to look into it. It's not cultured, but it's still the cream that they use, the Ocelli, uncultured Italian butter showstopper. A little salt on it, showstopper, not cultured.
Like it is what it is the height of what uncultured butter can be. Uncultured butter for an uncultured person. That's me. But uh, you know, when I first saw it, I bought it first from Louis DiPallo. He hasn't been able to get it because it there's two suppliers, Eataly carries it too.
They, of course, charge more, much more than DiPalos does when they when they have it. But I was like, how good can it be? It's not cultured. Good. Real good.
You know what I mean? It comes in a weird little satchel, like a weird little like paper thing with grommets. This looks like it's available on Amazon. Oh, a $40 delivery fee. The Ocelli?
The Ocelli or the Barat? Yeah. Yeah, the Ocelli. Yeah, it's good. But just go to I mean, do they have Eatley in Los Angeles yet?
Yeah, I think so. I mean, they're only going to charge you twice what it costs instead of, you know, with a $40 delivery fee, like, you know, 20 times what it costs from. What is the full name? I think it's just his name is Beppy. B E P P E.
Yeah. Beppino. Beppino. All right, listen. Listen.
Oh, the zip. Get this. Queen, we'll come back to more uh more cooking products here in a minute. But listen. So uh I'm trying to find the uh question.
Okay. Uh Malkith, maybe it's Malchite. I don't know. Uh wrote in a long time ago. Hi, Dave and crew.
In some older punch recipes, e.g. Grub Street Punch Royale and Wendrich's punch book, they call for ambergris, uh, which is of course uh like the fatty deposits found in sperm whale poop that they poop out and then uh floats in the sea for infinity till the poop washes away and only the fat soluble stuff remains, and then it has like a uh particular smell to it. Uh it looks like nowadays embroxide, which is also ambroxan, is used as a synthetic analog for ambergris and food flavoring and perfume. Have you ever played with it? Any tips?
No, I've not played with it, but I bought some. I said this a long time ago. Uh Givedon makes it and then someone repackages it and sells it on eBay. The issue is it's on the internet, which may or may not be correct. Here, get yourself a fresh one of these.
Uh which mayor, no, you need no fresh one. Yeah. Use this one. Uh uh, use that one. So it may or may not be correct, but they said I think 0.1 parts per million or something.
Someone can Wikipedia this while I'm talking. So the about as accurate as well. I think there's like zero, there's like three, three parts per billion. I think it was I read 0.1 per 0.1 per million, which is 10 parts per billion. Anyway, so I was able to fairly accurately measure 7 milligrams.
And I put seven milligrams into 200 mils of 40-proof alcohol. Now, the reason I didn't do this before is I tried to make a more accurate aliquot, but even in seven milligrams in 200 milliliters of uh vodka at 40%, I had to put it into my ANOVA and cook the hell out of it at like 150 Fahrenheit to get that stuff to dissolve. The other stuff that was like three, you know, 10 times as concentration, so like point, you know, seven hundredths of a gram in 200 milliliters, I had on a shelf for weeks and it did not dissolve. So the stuff does not want to dissolve even in 40% alcohol. Now, I don't I think my calculations are correct, but in 2000 uh uh in 165 mils of liquid, this stuff is gonna be 0.4, so four times what they say you should use is gonna be every drop.
So let's do a four. Of course, this is a little more. All right, so that's let's see if I can taste one drop. Here, John, you can see what you I don't get a lot in one drop. Taste it beforehand.
The water? Yeah. Okay. It's gonna taste like hot oil. All right, now see if you can taste one drop.
I can't really taste one drop very well. Of course, I may not be sensitive to ambroxan, or maybe this synthetic needs more. I'm gonna try it now. Two drops. I can smell it.
Now I got a big smell. What do you think? Now I'm gonna do after John adds his second drop. I'm gonna do three. I'm gonna do four drops.
Hell with it. Which is a full four drops of this is a full. Like I said, this is more than 165 mils, but we're looking at now more like one part per million. Now I understand perfume smells. Like this makes.
Now I get it. Four drops into a 250 of my seven milligrams per 200 is quite clearly there. Right? That this is the I would say the accurate use racing rate use rate. Let's use in much higher percentages in perfume.
I'm gonna say good. I'm gonna go ahead and say good. What do you say? Now what would you use that for? It's a little woody, a little perfumey, a little floral.
It's very perfumey. Like to me, that's the core smell of women's perfume, or at least of like my grandma's perfume. Smells grandma parts. Is that what you're saying? But not in a lavender way.
No, not in a lavender way, or the way you're saying either. What am I saying? You're gross. Wow. I don't know.
What would you want this in? Okay, choose a spirit. Don't say gin. No. Because that's what everyone will go.
Anytime something's perfumey or weird, someone's like, how about gin? How about vodka? No. Let's do something like if you had to use something that had like. I mean, gin is built to meld with a bunch of other aromatic stuff.
So don't choose gin. Or about like a rum. Okay, let me think. Dark or white. Nautical pirates.
Yeah, I don't know. You're just doing it based on poop. A little bit, yeah. Not based on flavor. Yeah, but I don't know.
Why not do that? Oh, yeah, I guess based on flavor. I'm thinking about you say prosecco? Yeah. So like a sparkling wine with some embroxin in it?
That's not a terrible idea. Not um, yeah, I you know what? And normally I'm not like a proseco guy, but I think you're right that you don't want you want something charmat. You don't want something that's like real mushroomy. You don't want like uh, you know, me uh method de champagne.
Yes. Which also tastes like le champignon. Yeah. Uh you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, I don't think you want the mushroom with it.
I think something that's like cleaner, more charmatty, right? Yeah. Hmm. All right. All right, Malkeith.
So uh so interesting. Yeah, so uh there, go try it. Well, you know what? If if you read on our Discord that I'm dead, then don't. But otherwise.
And it's used in much, much higher percentages in uh perfumes. What? This is less of an overuse than your uh infamous dirt martini. Oh, that was the worst thing it's ever. I mean, like I can still taste it.
It's got a long finish at four at f so seven milligrams into 200 mils of vodka, four drops into a 250 milliliter pellegrino, right? Is providing a finish that's staying with me. Now remember, ambergris, and therefore also this synthetic one, is like uh a base note, like a fixing, like a fixative thing. So it makes sense it's gonna have, even though it's mild in my mouth right now, it's got an extremely long tail. I am tasting it.
You know what I'm saying? So it could be one of those things where it like really sneaks up on you as you're drinking it. You know what I mean? Serving of eggs and ambergris was reportedly King Charles II of England's favorite dish. I don't think I wouldn't have guessed that.
I don't think I I don't think I would like that. No, but how much eggs? Well, but no, but I don't know what percentage of this is in ambergris. I don't know. So you just think it's a bad egg thing.
Yes. Because he couldn't get truffles because he's English. He's like, uh, what do we do really well? Truffles? Nah, man.
Nah. Nah, King Chucky. You know what I mean? So it's like, he's like, what do we do? Whaling?
How about whale poop? They're like, yeah, got it. Gotcha. When was when was uh Charles II? He was died in 1685, 1630 to 1685.
Yeah. So they knew how to whale at that point. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
Well, of course, otherwise they wouldn't have ambergris, right? Okay. Uh how do you think you pronounce? You think it's Osgeth or Oseth? Anyway, they wrote in.
Something reminded me of the Rye and Caraway or cardamom. It's rye and caraway. Can't remember exactly. Cookie sold at Booker and Dax circa 2014. I think it was a milk bar cookie exclusive to Booker and Dax, but not 100% sure.
I've had zero luck finding a recipe online. Curious if Dave or anyone happens to have this recipe. Well, uh Osif, uh, I called Jack uh Shram and asked him whether he remembered. He asked Jenna, who works with him at Solid Wiggles, who was uh Tozy's right hand at Milk Bar at that time. And uh I was told that in fact it was published in one of Tozy's milk bar cookbooks under Molasses Rye Cookies.
Uh makes 11 uh 11 what is it? Makes 11 over two dozen cookies. What is eleven over two dozen cookies? One and a half dozen. Oh yeah.
You think one and a half dozen? One and a half, okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart man. Uh okay, so it is uh stick of butter, one and a half cup sugar, one large egg, one large egg yolk, one third cup molasses.
I you know what? I bet you they're using like grandma's black strap, but you know, you can use Crosby's or steins because you you could be a better person. You could be a better person. You could use Crosby's or you could use stains. You don't have to use grand.
No offense to your grandma, but her molasses is no good. Um tablespoon white vinegar, uh, two and two-thirds cups all-purpose flour. And by the way, I didn't have time to try to convert this into grams, which is I I always instantly convert all recipes to grams because cups are an abomination. Uh one and a half teaspoons baking soda, one and a half teaspoons kosher salt, two teaspoons caraway seeds, one teaspoon ground caraway, and one half teaspoon ground ginger. Uh cook it at 350.
Follow, you know, Tozy's standard kind of cookie, like you know, creaming the hell out of the sugar and the butter, yeah. Uh 350. Um, and then uh two and three quarter ounce scoops of dough, two to three inches apart, greased or lined uh baking sheet. Of course, lined is the correct answer with parchment. Uh nine to ten minutes until leather-like, cool completely, and then go ahead and eat.
All right. Done. Got you. Got you, assess. Uh Tony Tony, only two Tonies, not Tony Tony Tone.
Just Tony Tony. Okay. Uh, I cooked some really tasty inch and a half center cut pork chops last night with my A Nova. Now I'm assuming, Tony Tony, that you mean ANOVA circulator and not a Nova precision oven because you're talking about water. Used uh Kenji's recipe, which is built into the ANOVA, apparently.
Call for an hour at 144 Fahrenheit, which by the way, for those of you that speak real numbers, listen. I've said this a million times. I bake in Fahrenheit, I fry in Fahrenheit, I dress in Fahrenheit, I do any technical cooking in Celsius because technical cooking is more akin to uh is more akin to like you know, science thinking. So it goes in Celsius. I think that that I know that it's not what's it called?
Consistent, but it's fine. It's fine. I'm gonna do I'm leaving tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. to go to Tales of the Cocktail, where I'm doing a talk with Mike Capafari and Jespin Clellan uh about dilution, and we talk a lot about temperatures, and Mike is a freaking Fahrenheit guy, even when he's chilling stuff, which makes no sense to me. It just makes no sense.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, why are we talking about numbers like in the 20s and the teens? I don't get it. You know what I mean? Zero and below zero and above zero makes sense for that.
You know what I mean? On the other hand, when Booker comes to me and he's like, Dad, it's it's 20, it's you know, 18 degrees outside. I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about, dude. Like, what am I supposed to wear? Just tell me it's like, you know, 50 something.
Anyway. Uh anyway. Okay. So uh it took four hours to bring the pork chops to temperature. Uh this with removing them from the bags and checking the temperature with a probe.
Water uh clocked in a solid 144, aka 62.2 Celsius. Um, but uh the chops came up really slowly using Ziploc bags hanging on the side of a deep pot. Uh when finally cooked, they were juicy. Uh they were so juicy, tender, and good, and then pan seared. All right, here's the thing.
Let me, before you get to your question, some notes on this recipe. First of all, like I think that one hour, one hour for an inch. It depends on what you're looking for. It depends on what temperature you actually want to hit in the middle of your of your pork chops. Usually what I'll do is when I'm doing pork chops, they're about that thick.
I'll do, and I want it rosy. You know what I mean? I'll do it at like 61, 62 around that for about an hour, right? And they're not getting up the temperature in the middle. In fact, I don't want them to get up to temperature in the middle.
I want them to get to like 59 or so, right? And then I drop because I'm I'm using like super high quality pork, I've also salted and peppered it beforehand, so it's going to get firmer because I'm salted and peppered it beforehand. I then drop the temperature to 55 for or 54-5 for hours. And I let it rock out. So the entire meat comes up to what is actually cooked, right?
For a steak, just not what people normally think of as cooked for pork, right? And if you have a problem with the rosiness there, you can jack the temperature a degree or two, but that's what you do. Two-step cook is always the best, but doesn't need to get all the way up to that temperature because in a really good pork chop, 62 is rather high. You know what I mean? Like, so because you know, when you're flash cooking it, that's not what you're going to get to.
But an inch and a half, if you actually wanted to cook it through, is going to take a long time. Because remember, doubling the thickness of a pork chop squares, not uh sorry, not squares. Well, it does doubling the thickness of a pork chop multiplies the amount of time it takes to cook by four, by four. Every time you double it, it get takes four times longer. So if an inch takes about an hour, which makes sense to me, an inch takes about an hour, 50 minutes to an hour, then two inches is gonna take four hours, and four inches will take eight hours.
No, 16 hours, 16 hours. So, like, you know, the numbers get real big real fast, which is why when you're doing low temperature cooking, the most important thing to do is to figure out, and by the way, I'm just doing those numbers off the top of my head, I'd have to run some numbers, but the they the most important thing is to get your geometry straight. And the bigger the the the bigger the maximum thickness the temperature has to travel through, the much, much longer it takes to get up to temperature. But I much prefer to do things where I'm almost getting up to temperature in the middle and then dropping it substantially because the proteins will keep moving in terms of like uh you're if you're cooking to you know, what are you saying? 144.
If you're cooking to 144 and you just hit 144 and turn it off, right? Let it cool down. Then if you let it that's gonna be a very different texture of meat than if you hold the meat at 144 for four hours. It like it's gonna now taste like a 146 or a 147, right? It's not gonna creep much, much higher, but the longer you keep it, it keeps creeping a little bit.
Look up activation energy with protein denaturation if you want to know why. Um anyway, so but your real question is I've got two of the four pork chops remaining for dinner tonight. How do I reheat them without losing that juiciness and tenderness? I'm thinking back into the sous vide at 144. No.
No. No. Um several hours before dinner, but is there a better way? Yes. And if 144 is unnecessarily high, I have a fresh rosemary and blah blah in the bag.
Anything. Okay, here's what you do. Uh let them, you know, come up to doesn't really matter. Turn your circulator on to, well, what's 52 in Fahrenheit? Someone tell me what, or if you know, 54 or 52.
You can put it at 54 to thaw it. Um, but you what you're really gonna do. 129 is 54. 129. All right.
So set it at like 129, because that's quote unquote, you know, like 544 is like which is one, yeah, 129 something, right? That's technically blah, blah, blah, food safe. Let it ride for a little while. Drop it down. Your real goal is to get it to be 30 degrees from top to bottom.
So if you put it in at like 54, right? It's not going to overcook because you've already cooked it at 62, right? So if you let it like get to 54 and let the whole thing get to 54 and then drop it to 50 for, oh, I don't know, like 45 minutes. At 50, when you steer the hell out of it when it comes out, it's not going to overcook. So and the middle will still be warm enough.
Anything below 50, it's not going to be warm enough, right? 50 52, which you're going to have to go ahead and convert that. But that's how to do it. There's absolutely no reason to hook uh to heat it back up to your cooking temperature because it's just gonna it's just gonna get worse, right? Keep it below your cook temperature.
You always want to have your ride temperature be below your cook temperature. Anyway, that makes sense? All right. Yep. Okay.
L butts. Maybe it's butte. We don't know. Who knows? Uh oh, Nastasia missed this because uh, okay.
So talking, they said something about Australian slang, which is weird. Apparently, in Australian slang, dead horse is rhyming slang for ketchup because horse apparently rhymes with sauce in Australia. Imagine a version of English where horse and sauce rhyme. I can't. Can't.
Doesn't compute. Doesn't compute. And Australian slang, huh? I mean, maybe, but a horse. I work with an Australian.
Get to the bottom of it. Yeah. Well, it says there on the internets, which is never wrong. Never. Has AI ever steered us wrong?
Of course not. No, come get me my AI overlord. Uh Dead Horse is rhyming slang for tomato sauce, which is similar to ketchup in other countries. What means similar? It's either ketchup or it's not.
I mean, I have tomato, like Marinara is not similar to what does that mean? It has no meaning. Internet, you've just shafted me. You've given me a meaningless statement. It's, you know, pizza sauce, which is similar to ketchup.
What? No. Um, okay. The phrase dead horse rhymes with sauce, which is why it is used this way. Hmm.
But also, dead horse can refer uh to totally useless or completely pointless, because I guess what are you gonna do with a dead horse other than beat it? Uh this meaning is related to the idiom to flog a dead horse, which you know, which means to make a futile effort. Okay, so you need to understand that in order to understand this question, I guess. Interested in hearing uh about um about the condiment in perspective, most people see it as an unsophisticated and very basic kind of sauce. On the other hand, it's a sauce containing a ton of complexity, spices, acidity, and umami, uh, that had you grown up in an environment entirely removed from it, you would think it's simply magnificent.
True story. Like an alien from another planet, uh, if you saw it, it works on almost everything and often improves the product. Although in my family, it's known but loved and called the food ruiner. It's called the food ruiner, but everybody are like past the ruiner because we all dump it on everything, but it's called the food rumor. And that's not from me, but you know, it's from someone else in in in my family group.
But anyway, um, I'm having uh uh for context, my nephew is obsessed with uh I'm just gonna go ahead and call it ketchup el boots, because that's what you know, that's what guy wants it to be called. Listen, the number one brand of ketchup in the world is heinz. Heinz is the best, and it is still like the ketchup. You know what I mean? So we can just call it ketchup.
Uh do you know that Heinz does not make baked beans in the United States, but their baked beans are incredibly popular in the UK for breakfast on toast. Oh, yeah. They're really good. Yeah. I've never had well, maybe I've had in England, but I've never known that I've had the Heinz baked beans.
But do you know that a slang for Christmas, I don't know who where this comes from, is crimbo. So they have Heinz makes a Christmas sweater that is blue Heinz bean can colored, and said it says beans with a Z means with a Z crimbo. Beans means crimbo in a Heinz thing. Yeah. Yeah, my wife has that.
She has that sweatshirt, sweater? Yeah. She calls it crimbo all the time. I'm always was Crimbo thing. I don't know where the heck does Krimbo come from.
It's like it sounds like that air. All the car, all the all the Christmas cards. Like Mary Krimbo. You're like, what? I guess I don't know.
It sounds more festive than Xmas. I know a lot of people hate Xmas. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh anyway.
So what are our thoughts on ketchup? Other than, of course, that it's great. Let me tell you something. If any one of you, if any one of you ever in your life, your whole life, in the life of five generations above and below you, ever came up with something as universally loved and as successful, consistent and delicious as ketchup, as Heinz ketchup, you would be revered. Revered.
The same way like Coca-Cola. You know what I mean? I'll say ketchup. Uh overrated. Not a big fan.
What do you mean? Overrated. You're just saying that because you may because you like mayonnaise. You can like both. What about thousand island sauce?
Even if it's like a Russian or I'd rather go with like the spicy mustard on the pastrami or something like that. Yes, ketchup. Oh no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. Obviously, no ketchup on pastrami.
But I'm saying that like sweet thing, it's just not for me. I'd rather have barbecue sauce, which I know is different, but like I don't want ketchup on my hot dog, and I want it on my french fries, I want it on my onion rings. Like I don't want it. Agree to have you be wrong. You do it on the you do it on your eggs?
No, absolutely not. On your spaghetti? No. I won't ever forget seventh grade Harry Guzman comes over to the house and puts ketchup on my mother's spaghetti olive angle. Oh Harry, you are you have a trophy in our home.
Oh was he never invited back after that? Ever. What was this guy's last name? Guzman. Listen.
Wait, Larry? Harry Guzman Harry. Harry Guzman. He left the kitchen table to go to the refrigerator to bring the ketchup back. And he's not Guzman.
He's not Guzman. He's a Guzman. Guzman. Alright, well. I hope he's not really.
Listen, listen, Harry. Call in and apologize to my man Joe Hazen. And Joe Hazen's like if any of you out here know this guy. You gotta call into Antonette. She'll she'll fix it.
You know, you gotta, you gotta make amends. This is what they tell you. You have to, you have to uh make amends to those you have wronged. Um what about oh by the way, I'll say this uh regarding the ambroxane at four four drops of uh seven milligrams per 200. It's now about eight minutes later, it's really bloomed.
Tastiers now. It's bloomed up. So maybe it takes a minute to bloom up in the uh in the in the in the product. Oh right? It's much more present.
Yeah, it's changed. Yeah. And I'm now it's a lot more floral. Yeah, so I'm gonna go ahead and say this. Add whatever you're gonna add.
Wait. Yeah. Wait. Wait. Um I think this would go really well with a gin, Dave.
I'm not saying it would. I'm not saying it would. I'm just saying, you know. I know, I know that's the easy answer. Yeah.
I think the easier answer is something in a custard. I mean, you could do that, but he he they asked for drinks, my man. Drink drink not a custard. I have to say, that's where I'm a bad person. You're a bad person on ketchup, I'm a bad person on custards.
Not a huge custard guy, not a not a flan guy. Oh. You know, if I could just have the top of a creme brulee, that would be good enough. You know what I mean? You know what I'm telling I'm tasting, I'm tasting Turkish Delight.
Oh, well, well, that well, that so Turkish Delight, the you know, those are all like floral, like rose watery. Oh, you know what they don't have any more of? Okay, did I talk about the pistachio cheese? Oh. There was okay, so like I was at DiPalo's and they don't have it anymore.
They're not gonna have it until next year, so don't worry about it, people. But there was a fresh-ish, so like uh of the texture of like marcellino, like so a relatively fresh pecorino. And it had pistachio studded throughout it. And so like I saw it on the counter, I was like, they were bright green, you know. And I was like, how good could that be?
And they were like, so they like here, have some. I was like, holy crap, so good. So good. Because it pistachios taste uh all the way through it. So what Jack, what about you and ketchup?
Oh, come on. This is fine for fries on a burger. I mean, I'm not using it on much more than that. Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and say this.
On fries, I'll put it, I'll put ketchup on fries. I prefer mayonnaise. But the greatest burgaloid of all times is of course the patty melt. And the patty melt desires ketchup. The patty melt wakes up in the morning and says, please put ketchup on me.
It's just a good product, regardless of whether you individually like it, it's just a well-made product. Okay, now it's a well-made product, but I agree with you that Heinz is the only ketchup that you should be using with all due respect to some of those uh former brands that popped up. Ooh, former brands. Uh the other question uh they had was sponsored every the other question uh they had was uh something I think has haunted cookbooks and recipes since the dawn of time. Is there really any difference between a dry caramel and a wet caramel?
Meaning, when you say caramel here, I'm assuming you mean just like brown sugar in a pan, and do you need to add water to it before you brown it, or can you brown it dry? I think that's what's happening. Sure, the water is all evaporated out of it anyway. I always end up doing a wet caramel because I feel it's easier to prevent crystallizing the sugar. We're interested to hear if there's any truth to the theory.
Well, there is uh the problem that you could easily burn a dry caramel before that it's all melted through, depending on how gentle your heat is in the pan. Uh, but the other thing is that uh sometimes in a caramel recipe, there's a certain amount of sugar inversion that happens as uh the stuff cooks, and the longer you cook it to get it to a particular color, the more sugar inversion you're going to have. And also, the more sugar inversion you have, the more coloration you get on the reducing sugar part of it when you know as it first breaks goes breaks down, then goes brown, then does the stuff. So I'm guessing there is a difference between wet and dry, but I'm guessing it's also not completely consistent based on exactly what temperatures you have. I'm sure you could make a wet exactly like a dry and a dry exactly like a wet if you control your times and temperatures accurately enough.
Make sense? All right, we'll see you guys in a couple weeks because next week I'm in uh what's it called? New Orleans or then Alaska, whatever anyway. All right, cooking issues.
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