Hello, welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Harlow, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dan Studios with a special Thanksgiving episode of Classics in the Field with Matt Matt, Matt Sardwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters. How are you doing? I'm well, thank you. Thanks for having me back.
Hey, great. We also got uh John here in the studio. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. And rocking the panels behind me.
Joe Hazen. Hey, how are you? Yeah, we we do not have anyone on the West Coast today. So although I wish them a thanks, happy Thanksgiving, they can just crack off that side of our country and float out into the ocean. Except for Quinn, who's already on an island and is already floated out to the ocean.
Besides, he's Canadian. He he already had his Canada Day or whatever in the heck that is, where they pretend that it's Thanksgiving and like maybe eat a turkey. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
Uh so look, we have a whole bunch of questions. So rather than uh doing, you know, j well just randomly shooting the breeze, let's focus. First of all, we have a for those of you that I don't know, if you haven't tuned in before, uh Matt Sartwell is uh the fearless uh leader of Kitchen Arts and Letters, which is the only real bookstore where you should buy a cookbook. It might look there are other great ones, West Coast used cook cookbooks, many, like I love I love them all. Uh, you know, Lizzie, you know, Bon, all those folks, great people.
But uh, you should go to Kitchen Arts and Letters if you've never done so. Let me put it that way. And this maybe not the only. You know, our favorite. There are a lot of great people in this field, and we're happy to uh to send people to to people like to like Lizardi when we don't have what they need.
Um, I think the world is a bigger, better place when there are more specialty stores like ours. So yeah, yeah. Uh hey, John, do you when you're buying something, do you like to buy it from people who know what they're talking about and can give you real recommendations rather than just agglomerate a bunch of slop off the internet and spew it back at you? Occasionally, yes. Yeah.
No, yeah, most of the time. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if there was a a cookbook resource that was like that? Where could I go? I don't know.
Matt, you have any ideas? Well, we're trying something like that. Yeah, we're giving it a shot. Uh you know, I you you sort of get stuck with my opinion or a few of my uh my colleagues' opinions, but yeah. Not true, actually, because you always give caveats for whatever is your opinion or what you don't know and other people's opinions as well.
You're like Harold McGee that way. You're very you're very open to other people's opinions and interpretations. Well, when you're a bookseller, you have to be. I mean, you you there is no like one true book, religious convictions aside. Um you have to be looking for that person who was just like standing on a different hill and looking in a different direction.
Uh that's what keeps the world interesting because otherwise you just have like one book in a section and you know, here's France, buy this one. Yeah, yeah. Back back. Well, remember when there was a whole I mean, there still is a whole lot of topics in English where I used to come to you all the time, you're like, no, sorry. Uh yeah, it doesn't exist.
But you know, that's the fun. Remember we used to, John, remember we used to do stump math. We used to try to stump them with stuff. Never stumped. No.
Unstumpable. Well, that's because my cheat code is to say there isn't a book. Oh, nice. Well, that's true though, but they're easy folk. Now, you know what?
Listen, they're beleaguered set these days. So, you know, no no blame. All right. So we do have one Thanksgiving, like specific Thanksgiving question, two kind of, right? So let's get to them first so that they're out of the way.
And then, Matt, you have an announcement to make regarding, you know, sure. Yeah. Holiday. Oh, right. Yes.
Or in general, though, right? Going forward, a club? Yeah. Yeah, I can do it now. We'll do it now.
Um we've been running a cookbook club for several years, uh, in which Annette Tomey, a former colleague of yours, uh, has been selecting books and teaching people about them and doing uh online classes with uh often with the authors tuning in and uh adding their their two cents to the discussion about what it makes a book interesting and and revealing. So we're starting out now uh beginning in January with a kids session. This is uh six sessions over the course of three months, all focused on a single book. First book is Instant Ramen Kitchen by Peter Kim, which is a great book for kids to learn about riffing and about feeling comfortable in the kitchen uh doctoring up uh somebody else's food. So um it's available now on our website for sign up.
We thought about it as a holiday gift for our family. Parents can join in with their kids. It's one membership offer, it covers two people. So um two for one bogo. Yeah.
We should we should frame it that way. Yeah. But we didn't, we just wanted to get people in there. So um Annette is is amazing. She's partnering with uh Pam Abrams, who's a children's uh publishing consultant, really knows a lot about um about education and materials, but not in a dry academic way.
She's really roll up her sleeve and cook kind of person, too. Now, Joshua David Stein, who does cookbooks and children's books, does he do children's cooking books? Not that I'm aware of, but he is so prolific that you you could probably persuade me that he's done five books, though. So by the time we're done with this podcast, if we called in now, by the time we're done with this podcast, he would have I I pay, I try to pay close attention to any book that's got his name on it because I think he really elevates uh a lot of people's work. Um but I'm not aware of a straight up kids' cookbook from him.
I think there was a storybook. So uh this reminds me, PS, uh, we were talking beforehand that one of my first, in fact, probably the first cookbook was by Julie Eisenhower, who you pointed out. I thought it was one of President Eisenhower's kids, but actually married into the Eisenhower family. Yes, Julie Nixon Eisen. Yeah.
So she wrote a cookbook called uh Cookbook for Children. You know, they weren't so creative back in the 70s in 1975. I had a first edition copy probably two years later, and it was given to me, and that was one of the first cookbooks that I cooked out of. That's the cookbook that had the paper bag chicken recipe that I used to make weekly. Once a week, I would make a paper bag chicken.
I had my own, I would rub McCormick curry spice into the it was basically you just take the chicken, you rub butter all over the skin. So they she was a salt and pepper kind of. It was it was a 70s. Yeah. And I put curry powder on.
That was my, you know. Your riff. My riff. And I can't remember whether I can't remember whether she put paprika on the recipe as well. Because, you know, whenever something's not going to brown right back in the 70s, they'd be like, why don't you just put some paprika on?
Because that's what they used to do. Uh and you know, you stuff it in a bag and you put it, I believe, at 375, but it could have been 350 because they were probably worried about kids laying in the bags. Because that's close. You know what I mean? Like anything over 375, a kid puts a bag in the oven if you're not watching it.
If you're not watching it, yeah. You know what I mean? If it gets too close, especially remember all those other smaller 70s ovens that would get too close to the to the top. You know what I mean? Anyway.
And so that's where I got. And then, you know, apparently, someday, I know we've talked about it before, you and I, but there's got to be a history of paperbag cookery. There is the earliest one I have was by someone who it turns out was a complete charlatan. I don't even know if he was related to Alexis Sawyer, but called himself the grandson or s son of Alexis Sawyer in r in England and wrote a book on paperbag cooking that I own, a small tome in the, I would say 1910, 1911. Oh, I've never seen that.
I'll go look it up. But if he he was basically like, you could cook everything in a bag. And he was trying to sell the bags. You know how like, you know, when you came on last time and we're talking about um oh Mrs. Marshall?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, everyone would have all they would have their book and they would use that as a way to sell their objects and or their like personal self to people. So it's an interesting. I guess, you know, some things never changed. That's how people do now.
Maybe Georgia Pacific should start thinking about a cookbook. Sell sell paper and paper bags, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, back then I think uh, you know, he was worried a lot about uh and people still are about additives to their paper, right? Yeah.
And so he was like, Mine won't cause you to smell like tar and death. Something like this. Yeah, well, and those were the days before a lot of those things were regulated. So yeah, you probably really took your chances. When you were reading old books, Matt, and they always talk about how everything is adulterated and how there's chalk in the milk and stuff, don't you take that with a grain of salt?
Because like I'm sure there were people who did that, but I doubt that it was ever as widespread as like, you know, the the Jacob Reese days of like where they're posing people in in pits of squalor. You know what I mean? Like to try to make a point. Well, but at the same time, so much food was locally produced. So um, you know, bread and flour additives in small bakeries.
I mean, that was a big pitch with uh with industrialized bread baking was that these were in conditions that were monitored and and these comp giant companies were were offering pure ingredients. And how exactly prevalent it was is, you know, I don't know enough to say, but it was enough of a theme that it had to be on people's minds that um somebody was using chalk or you know, ground eggshells or filling things out. Um the modern version of this is like the anti-twinkie book where they're like, do you know that they use titanium dioxide and explosives and paint come on, dude. You know what I mean? They use water to make dynamite.
You know what I mean? It's like, come on, people. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, that was I mean, in the dairy supply too. Um, as dairies were kept on the fringes of cities and and they were being crowded in, animals were kept in ever more squalid conditions.
And that caused problems in in the milk supply. My grandmother almost died in the 1940s because they got milk from a dairy that was like trying to hang on on the edge of the town they lived in. And yeah, no, I'm not saying that these horror anything that can be done horrible, someone has done. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?
And to this day, you know what I mean? It's just, I don't know. It just seems that uh especially among like uh upper middle and middle class white writers of a certain era. There is a lot of hand wringing about what happens among the lower classes that often remember the the history of the five points, right? There's all this writing about five points, but for those of you who don't know, it's not just a brewery and it's not just from gangs in New York.
It was a real neighborhood downtown that was leveled and they built a bunch of courthouses on top of it. There's one street left where there's an interesting Thai grocery store in New York, if you ever go Moscow. And you can, if you stand just right and squint, you can kind of feel what it was like to be one on one of those little old streets back in the day where the five points was. But I don't know, for since I was a small child, all the writing about it was how awful, how terrible, crime ridden, death, putre pu putrescence everywhere. And then they did a bunch of uh archaeology of the area, and they're like, hey, people really lived here.
You know what I mean? Real people lived here, had real lives, weren't all like, you know, cutting each other's throats left and right. You know what I mean? It's like uh I don't know. I I just have a very I have a very jaundic view of writing of that era by outsiders.
I'm sorry about it. No, I I think that's a fair criticism. Uh the fear that stocks the public mind, whether it's in the 19th century or in the 21st century, um, a lot of it is a product of, you know, one story getting told over and over again. Um and, you know, somebody got shot on this place and that that happened, and you know, there's a secure somebody poses a security guard at a at a cash machine and held up people. I mean, those stories are scary, so they get told.
We alert. There's something in our animal mind that compels us to alert uh other members of our species to danger. Yeah. Um it's like when we were kids, it was razor blades and apples. Yeah.
Which how do you gonna put well you can put a razor blade in an apple? It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. Did you guys hear a couple years ago somebody putting uh sewing needles and strawberries in Australia? That did happen.
What kind of what size sewing needle fits in a strawberry? How big are the strawberries? Maybe they broke them up. How do you stick a sewing needle into a strawberry? I don't know, man.
This actually happened. This makes drisk like these are like five times bigger than a Driscoll. These are the world's biggest strawberries or the world's tiniest needles. Okay. Or you sure it happened?
Or it's not one of these people who have what's that uh what's that phageia where you eat needles, pins and needles. There's there's people who you see the x-rays of their stuff their stomachs and still with like things. Yeah. Sure, one of them. It's like it wasn't me, dude.
It was the strawberries. You can look it up. I'm looking it up. All right. Back to Thanksgiving.
Uh B Dunn writes in. I'm cooking two Thanksgivings. Everyone should cook two Thanksgivings. Not me. You do one?
Not even this year I'm not even doing one. Oh, really? Yeah. Anti, or just don't want to feed don't feel like too many people, too many special diets. It's easier to go out.
Really? Yeah. Huh. So where are you going out? We're going to Dirty French.
Yeah. They could accommodate 10 people and special diets, and they were great about it. So you know who used to go out every Thanksgiving, never cooked the Thanksgiving? Maria Guanashelli, my old editor. Legend.
Uh publishing legend, Maria Guarnicelli. Every year would go to Jean George for Thanksgiving. And she loved it. I'm not surprised. I've never been out for Thanksgiving.
Never. Not once. I've always been at a home. I'm not going to my home. So I'm not doing much cooking.
I'm just doing the Parker House rolls this year. But I'm going to my mom's family, so I will have my mom stuffing. So that's good. You know what I mean? Um anyway.
Uh but I like cooking two Thanksgivings, especially if I'm not gonna if if I'm gonna do the first Thanksgiving, it's fine. But if I'm someone else is doing the first Thanksgiving, I like to have my Thanksgiving as well. So I will also cook the turkey the way I want it. I'll make the stuffing the way I want it, the cranberry sauce. Are you a strained or an unstrained?
Non strained. Non strained. Non strained. You strain? No, I'm saying strained.
Yeah, some people strain it. Some people they'll cook it and then they'll put it through like a a tammy, as we used to say, and get rid of all the skins and then just gel it by in a can at that point. I did that last year for a Times cranberry tart recipe. And the flavor was great, but I thought to myself at the end, never again. No, hell yeah.
One time life experience. No, don't do it. Orange in the cranberry or no orange in the cranberry. Uh yeah, I like orange. I I like it or raw sauce.
So just pulverize it with cranberries and some orange and a little sugar. Man, so peel or no peel in the orange. Yeah. Uh I've never done raw. Huh.
I like it. And how long does it take for the sugar to melt down in raw? Or do you like make it the diet the night before? And then it just all kind of together. Yeah.
Yeah. I am a traditional cook. Every time I try to mess with it by even like slight additions, although I like it, kind of like I used to add a little vanilla to it. I think it's a mistake. Yeah, that wouldn't have occurred to me.
It's a mistake. Okay. Uh it's good. I don't think it's better. Does that make sense?
I still add a pinch of salt to it though. I mean, come on. Yeah. You know what I mean? Pinch of salt.
But most other flavorings that you add with the exception of uh some orange, yeah. I haven't enjoyed the I I don't think it adds to the to the effect, to the overall effect. Um anyway, so I had something about that strain. Oh, uh, I think we already mentioned this one once on Classics in the Field, but the uh cranberry pudding recipe, although I make it at Christmas time, is also good Thanksgiving. If you've never made a traditional English steamed pudding, it's not that hard.
If you get like a you don't even technically need a pudding mold, but especially if you have a sealed pot, like a pressure cooker. Don't pressure cook it, but you know, something sealed so that it's not going to evaporate over time. Um, it's fun to make one at least once in your life and feel like you're reading, you know, some Dickens book. Uh you ever do a steamed pudding? I have not.
Steamed puddings are fun. And there are ones that are made from raw. This one's made from bread crumbs. So it's it's relatively foolproof. Uh it's a little sweet.
So you might want to cut back the sugar because it's it's a a steamed bread pudding with cranberries in it. Duh. And then it's got uh a grammar, I think it's no cranberry glaze, and then a hard sauce, which is just butter and sugar. And there's some sort of, I think, flaming grammarnier in it or something like this from the cookbook's best desserts from 1987, something like this. You know what I mean?
Uh you can look it up on the internet, I think. I think. Uh, anyway, be done is cooking two Thanksgivings. One traditional, unbound uh one traditional and one unbound by tradition. I would like to take my usual stuffing, sourdough bread, mild Italian sausage, fresh apple dried, uh cherries, sage, rosemary thyme, and turkey stock.
Sage rosemary and thyme, or as we call it, poultry seasoning, poultry seasoning, uh, and turkey stock from the first Thanksgiving and be able to press it into a small cake. I think the texture of a crab cake. I was thinking about adding egg whites as a binder. Do you think that would work or just use another binder? Yeah, why not?
Right? I mean, crab cakes are bound typically with egg on. Are they not? Yeah. I've I've seen plenty of stuffings that have a little egg in them.
Yeah. And most crab cakes don't really have much crab in them anyway. They're basically, they're basically binder. What are your feelings on bread and a crab cake? Bread and clams is fine.
Like a stuffed clam being heavy on bread is fine because that much of those big clams chopped up, too chewy. Crab man. Come on. Minimal. What do you think?
I think crab is delicate. I the less breading the better. Ding, ding, ding. Uh all right. Uh and finally, if you were going to reimagine Thanksgiving in a modern way, uh, without worrying about it being what people know as Thanksgiving, what would you make?
You know what? I just love that meal so much. I wouldn't make the same stuff. I just would cook the turkey not whole. I mean, like I would, you know, the turkey, the best way to do it is to do one traditional and then, or if you're fast, like I always take the bones out of the back and break it open in the back because no one cares about that.
That stuff never gets browned anyway. So, you know, you can flay the oysters out if you want them, fine. Do whatever you want, but cut the back out of that turkey. It does not matter. And then you have those extra bones for a stock.
If you do nothing else, I ever say, cut the back out of the turkey, open it up, it'll still look like a turkey, even if you don't take the rest of the bones out like I do. Even if you don't want to make a stuffing plug and heat the stuffing plug beforehand and then drape the boned-out flesh of the turkey over the stuffing plug so that it cooks from both sides and is still shaped like a turkey. Even if you don't want to do that, just cut the back out. John, right? Yeah, 100%.
And it's not the full benefit speed that you get from spatch cocking, but it will help. You know what I mean? Uh I mean, spatch cocking is the fastest. But if you cook one turkey of moderate size, don't cook a giant 85 billion pound turkey. Cook two smaller turkeys.
Okay, because you can actually stick them side by side in your oven at that point, right? But the real best way is cook one small turkey, normal looking, and joint one and fry it. Deep fry it. Yeah. Chicken fried turkey.
Because you can cut the pieces. What were you gonna say? What was your favorite second turkey? Well, you should just always have a second turkey to make sure there's leftover sandwiches. That's also true.
Ding ding ding, right? Yeah. Anyway, just do two turkeys. Yeah. Two smaller turkeys.
Smaller turkey cooks better than a bigger turkey every day of the week. Anyone else, uh non-traditional Thanksgiving stuff? Anything you I'm not one of these people by way, we've had this discussion many times. I love turkey. If I walk into somebody's house for Thanksgiving and it doesn't smell like turkey, I know immediately.
It's not like you can substitute some other bird, and I'm like, oh, what is that? Like, don't have me walk into your house unless you tell me ahead of time. I love all of the other poultries. I just need to know before I go that I'm not gonna have turkey because if I open the door and it doesn't smell exactly like turkey, I'm gonna be like, oh no. You know what I mean?
I'm going to the store right after this and buying myself a turkey. You know what I mean? I love turkey. Just because it's overcooked a lot doesn't make it a bad bird. You with me?
Yeah. And I'm a dark meat guy, so I always have more room for error. One more, if there's any butchers listening, one more pitch for going back 50, 60, 70, 80 years to when you could still get turkeys with, and this is before my time, but I'm told it's true, where they remove the tendons prior to cooking. You have to do it when the bird is being slaughtered. They have a special thing that you can when they take the feet off of it.
If you get a bird with the foot on still, the thought, you can do the trick that like a game person, you know, a hunter can show you how to remove the tendons. But they used to sell detended turkeys. And come on. I mean, just please. The the cookbook recommendations are like, well, you can remove them after it's cooked.
No, you can't. You rip the whole thing, please. You know what I mean? That's like uh remember, remember back in the day, maybe you don't, I think we've had this discussion where veal's expensive and some people don't eat it. Asubuko is one of God's great dishes.
And so people used to make, I used to make like turkey asapuka, where you get the big turkey legs and you cut them. But the the trick was always you had to tie them as though they were uh a veal shank and then cook them, and you had to pull the tendons after cooking because there was no viable way to get them out. Remember any of this? No. No?
Did anyone else do this? No. No. I lived in a different 70s, apparently. All right.
Any other Thanksgiving recommendation recommendations for B Dunn? Non-traditional Thanksgivings? No? No. All right.
Well, let's uh let's get on to uh to classics. You want to do your classics after? You want to get the question? Let's do the question. That's just the question.
I think we should be fair to the people who wrote in. Correct. Elliot uh I I'm saying that to me, not to you. Obviously, like I typically don't. All right.
Uh Elliot from Berkeley writes in uh this is the whole question. Gin books. Uh, or more generally, books about individual spirits as relevant for cocktails. Uh I liked uh the understanding rum section and smugglers code, but want one for gin. Uh distilled uh sp uh spirits distilled also somehow is missing a gin chapter.
So um stand me on a desert island with one gin book, and I would go with uh Dave Broom's gin a manual, uh, which covers manufacture varieties that has tasting notes on a wide variety of gins from multiple countries. Um when was it published? It's been updated about three times. There's a new edition this year. Because you need to because the world is changing a lot.
Yeah. And um and Broom has done two other books. There's one on rum, uh called Rum Emanuel, and there's also whiskey emanual. He's I mean, whiskey was his m biggest earliest, right? That's uh that's where he writes most often in whiskey.
But gin is um uh the gin book I think is really strong. We did years ago when the first one came out. We did an event with him where he like did a tasting. He's really passionate, he's interested, he's smart, he detects subtleties um and can talk about them in a very detailed and appealing way. So um, you know, you can look for other books that might talk more about history.
There's um a most noble water, the uh Anastasia Miller and Jared Brown book. Jared is Sif Smith. Yeah. Um but that's history. So if you're looking for something like, you know, what's happening now, I would say gin are right.
Go broom. Yeah. Uh you like gin? I do. And yeah, what's your go-to?
I get something different every time. I feel that it's important to keep trying these new little things. So you like new styles and old styles. Yeah. Yeah.
Um and our local liquor store pays attention to small producers. There's always sort of this rotating shelf. Some of them they have only one time. Um you ever do one of those? I try to have to name them.
I try to filter that out. Uh I am not strongly in flavor of the more floral gins. I know some people really love them. I don't generally like floral flavors in my food. So except vanilla.
So when it so you know, I don't even think of vanilla as a floral flavor because it's been A, it's the pod, and it's also been um you know fermented. Fermented. You know what I mean? But um I used to hate most flower water flavors, like orange rose, all these things. I'm become more tolerant of them in moderation as soon as they go over that line.
What are your feelings on lavender? It makes me feel like I'm licking the bottom of my grandmother's purse. Yeah. It's just I love that you've tried that. But the uh the the thing about lavender is is it's one of the more popular new gin flavors.
I I'm aware of that. Yeah. Yeah. I find it's um the issue is and I had this problem back at Booker and Dax is that it's extremely polarizing. So if you don't you should I say this with all tasting it you go out and have like 20, 30, 40 people taste something and if two thirds of or if even if a quarter of them are like ugh, right?
That would be fine. Except not everybody knows they don't like lavender because they don't know what lavender is. And so when you present a polarizing flavor that not everyone understands that they don't like it yet, that's when the problem happens. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense?
Like some polarizing flavors everyone knows whether they like them or they don't right like uh what's a what's a common polarized cilantro's most people know whether or not they like or dislike cilantro because they've been exposed to it. Uh lavender not so much necessarily you'd think that they would but they don't yeah that that surprises me in a way I feel like maybe because I'm so prone to avoid it I see it wherever it appears. Right. But in other words like I think this I think there are people who hate it whenever they taste it but they don't necessarily know that it's lavender. And so if someone says there's lavender in this, they're not like, oh, I hate that.
You know what I mean? They just have it and they they're like, oh, I hated that. But without the research into what the lavender was. I had this happen at a drank at Booker and Dax. I was like, never again.
Never again will I put it. It wasn't my drink, obviously, because I wouldn't use lavender, but I allowed the drink to happen. It was a good drink. It's called the Sherbet. It tasted like uh like a flower sherbet.
You know what I mean? That's a that's a uh a confection that I feel is gone the gone by the wayside. Sherbert. Yeah. Or Sherbet.
But how why what what yeah, but in the 70s it was pronounced Sherbert. I don't know why. Yeah, I don't either. I mean, I grew up saying it that way too. Yeah.
Yeah. Why? It's not spelled that way. It's not, yeah. Other things that are mispronounced, I get flack for constantly from my family, like coupon, which apparently is pronounced coupon.
Anyway. Uh all right. So Jason L says, hey Matt, uh, I absolutely love Kitchen Arts and Letters and the Classics in the Field podcast episodes. I am looking for a gift from my brother-in-law. He wants a book on Spanish cuisine, ideally in Spanish and a useful recipe book for a home cook.
Do you have any recommendations in this general direction? Hey, uh, Jason, thank you for the for the shout out. Um, that makes me less than happy to have to say I don't really know anything that does that job, at least in Spanish. Um certainly that we have here that there's not much that's distributed in the United States. Uh there's a the big sort of tome in Spain is uh book that translates to roughly 1080 recipes uh by the Ortegos.
Um and there is a translation of that book from Fiden. I don't really recommend that book because it is so uh it's just a recipe dump. It has no context for anything. It doesn't tell you where in the country it comes from. It doesn't tell you, you know, is it a really common dish?
Is it a really unusual dish? It's just contextless, and that always frustrates the hell out of me. Um Claudia Roden did a beautiful book called The Food of Spain about 15 years ago. Um it's pretty comprehensive, it has a lot of history, not available in Spanish, as far as I know. It uh shockingly has just gone up to $75, which I think is a suicide move by the publisher, but um it is a really worthwhile book.
Uh might be found secondhand. And then um relevant to something I'll be talking about when we get to classics in the field. There's a series called Culinaria that has books on individual countries. There is a Spanish volume. Uh that is completely the opposite of the 1080 recipes book.
It is mostly uh regional stories and culture and occasional recipes, really more for illustrating a point than to trying to be comprehensive. And I think that would be a great book. It's not in print anymore, but it's not hard to find online. Secondhand. Speaking of recipe dump, do you have dump meals, the series?
No. I was I was late to know about that. People were making jokes about it. Uh, my staff was making jokes about something, and I I really thought I was gonna have to have a conversation about what was appropriate conversation for the work until I realized what it was. And I I I don't know how anybody made the move to popularize that term.
Yeah. I mean, uh, great sense of irony. I think she made some good money off that. That's from what I hear, yeah. Dump meals.
I forget her name. I don't think I ever knew it. She has she had like a series of them. There's a whole series of dump meal books, and I think we bought one back in the day and had uh nostalgia's sister uh make one of these recipes and then call in. And then apparently, I don't even know, because I don't know what I'm saying as I say it.
Apparently, I just like eviscerated her over the air on the technique she used to make this dump meal, and she never she never did a roving correspondent thing again. I don't know. The great Kathy Mitchell. Kathy Mitchell. Yeah.
The dumpstress. Yeah. Nice. All right. Uh from Wizmerd, question for Matt or any other qualified folks, but apparently Matt.
Matt's the most qualified one here, obviously. I'm very impressed by what Japanese uh people refer to as parfaits. Uh whenever anyone says parfait, I just have the Eddie Murphy as the donkey from Shrek. Everybody everybody love parfait. That's just close to my head.
I can't get it out. Thanks, Wismer, for that one. Uh they're often themed to uh region or season. So for those of you who don't know, a it's a Japanese parfait is like the same thing you would think of as a parfait in the glass with the layered with ice cream and fruit and some crunchy stuff, but like ballistic, like huge amounts of stuff, like very like highly presented, fancy looking parfait. So nothing that you would have gotten at an American lunch counter back in the day.
Anyway, um so they're often themed to region or season. Uh they also uh usually hit as many textures as possible while still maintaining a balance and cohesive whole. Usually there's ice cream, fresh fruits, something springy like emoji and or a jelly, something crunchy, a syrup, a cream, and maybe more, what's not to love, and are there any cookbooks or even just photo books on the subject of Japanese parfaits? So I went looking for this because I had no idea that this there was this sort of specialization within uh current Japanese culinary culture. I f couldn't find anything in English.
Is there a Kakigori book? You know, the shave ice one, the uh the non-ice cream equivalent. Not that I'm aware of. Is there a Hawaiian Shave Ice cookbook? Not that I'm aware of.
All right. So go back to what you're finishing. So there are books in Japanese that are out there that would probably suffice as picture books. They're not easy to find in the U.S. I went to Kinokania, which is a great resource.
Love that place. Uh for a lot of imported Asian books. They didn't have anything with the word parfait on the title. I did find stuff on eBay and bouncing around on uh the evil uh empire. And it's really hard to evaluate what I see there.
So I unfortunately can't provide much guidance. On the other hand, it sounds like WizMerd has a pretty damn good handle on what this is. I think just wants a coffee table book. Yeah. I mean, if it's if it's just because they're inspiring, then you go get something in Japanese and don't worry about the language.
But in terms of what I used to do actually for Japanese cocktail stuff. You'd go to Kinikanuya. Oh, it's right on it used to be like closer to the public library branch, but now it's across the street from Bryant Park. You go in, ignore the regular book section. Ignore I mean it's fine.
It's good. Whatever. Ignore, go downstairs and go to the Japanese section, and then just figure out where your section is. So for me, it was cocktail, and then just like sift through, like sift through it. You know what I mean?
Um that's is that what you did? That's what I yeah, I haven't been I actually haven't been to the new location. Um but yeah, the it's a it's a phenomenal resource. They they also have things from other countries in Asia, although Japan is their is their real strength. Also, good good stationary.
Do you like stationery? No, I don't write people on it. They have good state, they have a very good pen. If you like pens, pencils, scissors, and pencil cases. And they got the cafeteria upstairs, right?
Yeah. Uh it used to be Zaya, Zaya, I think, shut and was repurchased. So Zaya was a small like onigiri and like a cold fried chicken with shredded cabbage store. It also had buns. It was a bakery.
They did like a milkbread. And they had, I think, three or so locations that I had been buying Onigiri from my son Booker since he was born. Uh they merged with a cream puff company called Beard Papa. And then uh I think kind of went out of business. It got rebought.
And so they but they think they changed their Onigiri recipe. But there's still there's still a cafeteria, I think, up there. But that used to be my weekly. Uh we would go. Yeah, we went there once.
It was good. Yeah. You know, you go go free ice skating at Bryant Park, go across the street, go to Kini Kanoya, go upstairs, get a you know, cold jumbo fried chicken sandwich, shredded cabbage. That's where I learned that shredded cabbage is good on a on a cold-fried chicken sandwich. You know why?
Crunchy. Yeah. You know what cold-fried chicken is not? Crunchy. Crunchy.
That's what it has lost. It has lost its crunchiness. Truth. It's like it's like foundation makeup for cold-fried chicken. Anyway, uh all right.
Uh Maddie says, uh, I have one for this if you don't. Well, we may have the same thing. That would be crazy. If we do, it'll be crazy. All right.
Uh Maddie writes in my in-laws just moved to Cape Cod. So I've, you know, my family's been going to Cape Cod for forever. Anyway, uh, my in-laws just moved to Cape Cod, and I'd love to get them a couple of cookbooks that cover Cape Cod or broader New England cooking/slash ingredients, slash cuisine, historical class, or classic, modern niche. Would love any recommendations. What do you got?
Uh I got Province Town Seafood Cookbook by Howard Mitchell. Oh no, I don't have that one, but so I got another one for you. Go ahead. Okay. So this is um I wrote the date down here.
Uh 1975. There's a paperback edition on the market that has a introduction by Bardane. Um if you're gonna be on Cape Cod and you're not paying attention to seafood, you should really just, you know. Move to Charlestown. What do you what are you doing?
Um it's it's a great opinionated uh cookbook. It feeds in a huge amount of history. And it's talking about like the hurricanes that took out the wharfs and uh how the early Puritans were horrified by these loose living people who lived on the tip of the Cape, and it talks about the history of the you know, the fishing fleets and the American whole American seafood industry. Um the recipes are pretty old school. I mean, they're you know, there's nothing fancy about this.
Um there's a lot of breading, maybe more breading than some of us would like, but it's um it is indisputably of a place. Um when you go to this is not a cookbook, but when you go to Cape Cod to the outer cape, right, which means you know, the out closer to closer to you know, Pete Town, all this stuff. If you're renting, right, but you want to do the whole Cape Lobster thing, and let's knock into the argument yes, the further north you go, the better the lobsters are. Hard bottom lobsters, cold or lobster. I understand it's water, blah blah la.
Okay. Uh but if like you're in between Well Fleet and Truro, let's say, and you're like I say, you're renting, uh, or you just don't feel like you want to go through cooking the whole lobster thing, but you want the lobster dinner, go to a place like Hatches, right? Uh, you go in, you pick out your lobster, whatever size you want, and then they have the big pressure steamers there, and they'll just cook them for you. And then you take them home. You tell them when you want it, they'll put your lobster aside, you tell them when you want it, you'll come, you pick it up hot, you take it to your hotel, eat it on the beach, go out on the rocks, which is really outside, is the best place to eat a lobster.
You know what I mean? With just the bodies spraying all over, all over you, and you know what I mean? It's like it eating lobster should be a visceral, disgusting. If you're sitting across from me and I'm eating a lobster, be aware that my dinner will become a part of your outfit. You know what I'm saying?
Anyway, the book that I have, I don't actually own this, but my stepfather uh has been a surf caster in Cape Cod since, you know, like forever. He's at this point now that he's uh in his 70s. He's kind of like the old man of the beach. Uh and whenever he goes to Cape Cod, which is constantly, he does all the only things he really does are sleep, sometimes eat meals, and fish. And uh he swears by there was an old uh famous fisherman who died in 2012, I think, named um uh Dave Pops Mash, M-A-S-C-H, uh, who ran a school for uh at risk kids called the uh Penices Island School, and had for a while worked at Woods Hole, but he was a famous uh he was a famous like fisher uh guy.
He wrote uh for uh on the water magazine, and he was a Harvard graduate. And although I don't have the book, like he he he is beloved in my family. And his recipe for bluefish, Pop Smash, uh Pop's Mash uh bluefish is the only recipe for bluefish that my parents will make. And they also use it for for stripers. So the two main fish you get there are stripers and blues.
And he wrote a book uh that I think was self-published earlier, but was published by a real press uh in 2007 called Cooking the Catch. And it is a local classics in the field, uh cooking the catch. And it's all recipes and lore from that area where he lived since at least he was of college age and spent the rest of his life there on the water fishing. And on the cover of the book, um, you'll see he has two very different fish, both bass, a striper and a black bass. And so it's like, you know, he was that's kind of like an uh like a slang A to Z, you know what I mean, on cookery.
So that's the that's my recommendation for that very local. Yeah, I didn't know about this book. It sounds like I had to track it down. Yeah. If I can add two to this, not super specific to Cape Cod specifically.
But um I was trying to do some research into this back, I don't know, like 10 years ago and couldn't find very much, and so kind of zoomed out and did more like New England style cooking. So Matthew Jennings' um homegrown was really good, I thought, and uh Jeremy Sewell's The New England Kitchen was good, uh, and I'm sure his cookbook, The Row 34 Cookbook, is good for that as well. So just my two cents on that. How's the can I know we're gonna talk about another m sometimes New England person later, but uh how was the Knopf New England book? I I have it, but I don't remember it as well as I remember like the spoon bread book that uh Neil put out.
I'm trying to remember who wrote the Knopf New England book. I own it, but it it then didn't make a huge impression on me one way or the other. It was not, I think, one of the definitive books. There's a time life New England that's good. Um I don't know.
I cannot picture that the Wasn't there one? I think there was one, though. Maybe I'm just manufacturing it in my head. There's a Pacific Northwest one. There is a um, you know, upper Midwest one.
John, can you see if there was a Knopf uh Knopf Cooks American was the series. Yeah, which we which is spotty but good, right? I think for the most part they they got terrific people to do it. It's just in some cases, like with the Pacific Northwest book, it was trying to define an area that was where the definition was a little more slippery. Right.
That there was an emerging culinary movement by chefs to define a regional cuisine. But having grown up in that part of the world, I could tell you that there really weren't that many dishes that you could sort of reliably figure would be on everybody's table once a week or anything like that. It was just too diverse. Too recent. You like that spoonbread one that Bill Neal did?
Yes. Yeah. Is it I mean, I loved it. Is it still currently considered good? It is.
I mean, it's not in print anymore. Biscuits, spoonbread. Yeah, and something. And sweet potato pie. Sweet potato pie.
Yeah. Um, I mean, that taught me a lot about biscuits that I had no idea. And, you know, my grandmother had come from Missouri, and I thought I knew about Southern Biscuits, but clearly she was keeping a lot of secrets or just got out of Missouri too soon. So uh yeah, I think it's uh I think that's a very strong book. Yeah.
Uh all right. This is a really cool series that I've never heard about. What? Yeah. That's back when old man Knock was sailing the ship.
I love these titles. He's dead already? I think he was dead by then. That was J that was Judith Jones. Oh, really?
Yeah. Makes sense too. I was just saying it because uh who used to say that. McGee used to say stuff like that. He wouldn't say it like that because he doesn't talk that way.
Um, and this is another one for you. I'm gonna give it to you, even though it's not this has been in our list for a while for Sherry. Uh I have a friend who's a fairly experienced home cook, just retired, is planning his post-retirement life. He's had a lifelong dream of going to culinary schools, planning to enroll in the culinary arts program. Uh he's been experimenting with sous vide recently, also an avid deep sea fisherman, lives in LA.
Uh so wants like uh media recommendations, but also book recommendations and things that expose uh him to new techniques and ingredients. So I'm passing the book section of this to you. So I would I saw a list of things in there. I would say food lab would be an obvious choice. Also Nick Sharma's flavor equation, uh, which is a great exploration of flavor theories across cultures.
Yeah, all right. Uh all right, and see if they see if there's any other oh, let me I'll hit now. You know what? Let's do your classics and then we'll we'll hit some of these ones that we want to hit on the way out before uh before we go. Okay.
What'd you bring? So first thing I brought is Simple Cooking by John Thorne. Uh this began oops, uh, as um some short pieces, little pamphlets that he published while he was living in Boston. He got a feature in the New York Times, and he began publishing a newsletter, sort of before there was Substack, before there were blogs. He, and like Ed Baer, who did the art of eating, made a living uh publishing a quarterly newsletter about food.
Um he's really curious intellectually. And curious, right? And I mean, uh a character. His his palate tends to run pretty predictably American. Um he's not gonna be investigating, you know uh tongue tacos or uh onagiri.
No, he's also got a bit of a francophile situation, right? Or is a francophone anyway. At least I get that impression that he can speak. I don't know about that part. Um honestly, he's I mean, most of the stuff that he's he's landing on is I think, you know, there's a New England cast.
He wrote a couple of his books while he was living in in Castine in Maine. And um he I think produced six books overall. Simple Cooking is the first. I think it's a great introduction to his work. Are any of these essays also in Pot on the Fire or Serious Pig?
No, they were sequential, derived uh from what he had done in the newsletter. And by the time Simple Cooking had came out, he he'd been writing the new newsletter for maybe five or six years. So he had a lot going on. He th as the books went along, he became a little prosier and perhaps a little more opinionated. Um but initially with Simple Cooking, he said, my goal as a cook has always been not so much to attain some specific sense of mastery as to be able to just go into the kitchen, take up what I find there and make a meal of it.
So a lot of the things that he spends time on are pretty simple, like oatmeal or macaroni and cheese, or uh, you know, a kale and potato soup. Beans, toast. Um I bought two of his books from you decades ago or from the store decades ago. Uh is he still alive, by the way? As far as I can tell, I was I was curious about that because he's not gonna be a kid.
Uh he was very friendly with Nock Waxman, his wife, Matt Lewis Thorne actually worked at Kitchen Arts and Letters long before I came along. Um, and so uh there was uh a bond there, but they um they seem to have sort of retired quietly and um don't seem to be active and not much evident media evidence out there. I you know he's he's not a fuss budget, but he can sort of lose himself in a recipe in figuring things out. It's an interesting mix of like uh a feat and working class, erudite and down to earth at the same time. Like I I love his I love the work.
I can consume three essays and then I need to stop for a while and go back because it's like you know what I mean? It's like very like woven and dense. You know what I mean? Uh yeah, he he doesn't manage to pack a lot in there. It's sort of like MFK Fisher.
I mean, you can spend a lot of time and you're suddenly on the periphery of this discussion, a lot of other things are sort of glimmering into uh into greater definition, uh, even though he's really just talking about, you know, what to do with your potatoes. Um you can probably get one book and come away with a pretty strong sense of what makes Thorne interesting. And if you, you know, if you get really swept up on it, there are other choices. There's serious pig, there's Outlook cook, there's pot on the fire. Yeah, I have Pot on the Fire and Serious Pig.
Pot on the Fire is the one that's got the most of the bean stuff, right? Uh no, sorry. Serious, Sirius Pig is the one with most of the bean stuff, right? Yeah, Pot on the Fire. I couldn't find my copy, but that's the one with toast.
And I don't know if so, like I had to do a um, I had to do like a video where I was reviewing all these toasters recently. I can't say a lot about it because I'm not supposed to, but I was reviewing a lot of toasters. And I said to the producer, I was like, Oh, have you read uh Quintessential Toast, which is, you know, the essay ever written on toast by Thorne. And that's in Pot on the Fire. And I she's like, no.
And I went back and I reread it, and I realized is that when I read it originally, was prior to when you could research everything on the internet. And so one of the things that uh he likes to do is put uh like a quote at the beginning of all of not all, but many of the articles or essays, whatever you want to call them, that are you know, from the past or usually very out in from left field crazy stuff. And the one in quintessential toast appears to be completely made up. And uh, I'll read it to you. Uh uh, well, I won't read it, it's very long.
So it's about the so Nigel Strangeways was a uh detective character, I believe, that was uh in a bunch of novels in like the 30s and maybe movies. Uh and so the Thorne made up a a story by about Nigel Strangway called Toaster Agonis from 1923, which according to the internet is before any of the Nigel Strangeways movies, and then has this entire thing about uh toast and dry dry toast. Uh, and especially because the whole thing about it is is that dry if you can make a dry toast that is good that doesn't have butter on it, then you truly mastered the art of toasting. That's the kind of theory, one of the theories of uh of of this uh of this thing, uh, of the whole thing. And so the the the premise of quintessential toast is that we don't toast right and we don't think about toasting properly.
We don't care about toasting enough. You know what I mean? And but then I uh you cannot find this quote because it doesn't exist. It made it up. And then so I looked at some of the other toast uh things that are seemed random.
So, you know, very random quotes, most of them real. So, like, isn't that odd? Where did this come from? The yeah, where where did this out of his head you mean? Yeah, I mean, just I don't know.
It seems like a huge risk. Right? I mean, not someone I I've never met him, but nothing else in his work suggests that he's a risk taker. That's really fascinating. Hey, anyone that can anyone that can hear me who has more time to research weird things, look it up, let me know.
Uh I mean, it's an interesting, it's an interesting quote, you know what I mean? Um so it starts with uh, you know, one of the buttered toast, said Mr. Jeffries. I suppose we might manage that. His voice trailed away, leaving in its wake a note of doubt, perhaps even mild alarm.
Indeed, he had taken on the appearance of someone reluctantly forced to the verge of a personal confidence. The thing is, he began he began hesitantly, Wilkins is such a dab hand at dry toast. And that's how the essay starts with this whole long quote about dry toast. Not real. Anyway, uh bizarre, right?
Totally unexpected. Yeah. All right. Next classic. Okay.
So jumping ahead on the holiday, a book called The Christmas Cook by William Moyce Weaver. Weaver is an American food historian. He's best known for his work on Pennsylvania Dutch. Yeah. A very early seedsaver.
Yes. Very committed to issues of gardening as well. This is a fascinating book. It, you know, it says three centuries of American Yule-tied sweets, and it really does go back into the 1700s, talking about traditions that different immigrant groups brought to the country, how they adapted to what was available here, how they adapted to community interactions. It's also really revealing about just how radically Christmas meal traditions have changed.
And I mean, this is just desserts, but they fit into a whole broader uh set of discussions about how Christmas was celebrated, whether it was ethical to celebrate Christmas. There were people who felt it was really just sort of almost sacrilegious to have a feast on the day. There were all kinds of different opinions, and they were at war with each other. And a lot of the, I mean, I only skimmed through it uh because I knew you were gonna come come on, but like a lot of uh, you know, a lot of the historical record that he's going through from the 19th century temperance is shot through a lot of it, and a lot of kind of religiosity and as you say, like, you know, uh why we're doing certain things is shot through it. He's got a very specific mindset of that, but it's it's interesting.
Um the scale of William Voice Weaver, who can sometimes really burrow so deep into the whole Pennsylvania Dutch and minutiae. Is this one on the more readable weaver side? Absolutely. Absolutely very engaging, and he's going to be talking about what was happening in Missouri and you know, and and Dutch settlers. So his geographic scope is very broad.
You clearly know that he has a deep acquaintance with Pennsylvania Dutch traditions and and other sort of you know closely associated religious movements, but he is, I think um making a big effort to cast a very wide net. And I think that the the breadth of that makes this all that much more compelling. And a whole chapter on uh Christmas recipes for people who didn't have money, can't not not necessarily just rich rich folks' Christmas recipes, which I thought was pretty interesting. Yes, because uh I mean rich people get documented better than poor people. True.
All right, so uh what's the next section? Okay. So I have a series of books called Culinaria. Ooh, the hardcover. Uh there were 12 books in this series.
Uh they began with a set uh called European specialties, which was a huge success. And um eventually followed up with volumes on the Caribbean, China, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Russia, Southeast Asia, Spain, and the United States. These are, as I think I said earlier, regional guides to the traditions within these countries. They talk about candy makers and cheesemongers, and they talk about uh holiday dishes, and they go through each country by region, and they have recipes, but the recipes are really there to demonstrate a particular tradition. It's not an attempt to be definitive, it's in it, but it is attempt to be really accurately descriptive.
They're well photographed and very well photographed. And when were they? Were they late 90s or early 2000s? Uh the first one appeared in 95. 95.
The they were done by a German publisher called Kohnemann, which um was already very successful as a photographic publisher. They did books on design and art and things like that. This series took off for them. They invested a lot in it, and it something that they did made them go bankrupt. So they were purchased by another German company called Ulman that kept it going.
Somebody had big dreams for this series. There were at points somebody had registered ISBNs for volumes on India, uh, which would have been great. Uh it was popping up on online for a while, but no evidence that it actually ever happened. Well, so I, you know, I always felt that this was, I mean, I was getting them when they were relatively new. So what it used to be is they they used to have these things called bookstores, like big ones, like borders, right?
Borders is gone, right? Gone. Gone. So borders was slightly different from Barnes and Noble, in that borders kind of built itself on this uh kind of discount section that they would have at the at the front of the store that you would go in. And what you would do is is that any town that you would walk into, you would go to the borders, you would go to the discount section and see which culinarias were in the discount section that you could buy for $2.
And that's the way that I got most of the ones I have, because they would just show up there. They are incredibly easy to spot because all of the colour covers are very punchy single color papers with an image overprinted on the top of it and the country title. So they're very easy to spot on a bookshelf. So as soon as you walked into a borders, I could just go like scan. Put it, beep, beep, beep, beep.
Yeah, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, culinary. Borders used to be used to be World War II airplanes, Hitler, and Culinaria was like that was that was all they really sold uh at at the front of the store. You know what I mean? Uh so it's amazing that didn't work. Yeah, right.
Uh so it's kind of like the history channel. We used to call it the Hitler Channel, because it was only World War II documentaries back in the day when they started. Anyways, so uh I thought they were a fantastic buy. I always thought it was uh uh an answer at that time to the Time Life series, which is my all-time favorite, you know, series we talked about. Umother amazing series.
I these are um I mean, uh you could wish that there was a volume in Mexico and on Brazil and on, you know, uh on Indonesia and on Vietnam. I mean, there could have been so much more to this. And unfortunately they just didn't make it. They always tried, I mean, even when the books were brand new, they were cheap. And I think that was their downfall is that they uh you could buy this like big 300-page book for 1995.
Yeah. And I think they doomed themselves. And are they still cheap? It varies a lot. Condition, most of them came out in several different formats.
The European volume came out in a European set came out in a single volume and a two-volume set. There were these smaller trim sizes that are about 30% of the size of the big ones. Those are the ones that have mostly the because those are the ones that were in borders. Yeah. And you can do pretty well as long as you're patient.
Don't you know don't feel like you have to have the big hardcover because these small ones will actually probably last longer. They're better bound. When you need something, people on eBay, don't buy the first one that comes up. Just put the surge hit up and just wait. Just chill on it.
Patience, patience is rewarded. Just chill on it. Uh all right. Uh are we are we missing anything? Or should I just wrap up with a recipe that someone asked for?
That's the stuff I brought. All right, all right. So let me see. I had a question in Nick from Vancouver said, uh, love the tomato BS. Thanks for the spec.
That's a non-alcoholic drink from the bar. Uh drink was a huge hit. Uh I assume I have a new one called Green Bean. That this and uh they assume that the green bean BS is similar. It is very similar, in fact, it's almost the identical drink, but you're you I use um pomegranate uh cordial instead of uh cranberry cordial, and I use green bean juice instead of uh instead of tomato juice, and add a little bit more wormwood uh tincture.
I'll tell you what it is. Uh first of all, I'll tell you how to make cranberry cordial because it's an inverse. I'm sorry, pomegranate cordial, it's an inverse of the cranberry. So cranberry has more acidity than sugar, and pomegranate has more sugar than acidity. So you get uh 17 uh 1,517 grams of pomegranate juice.
And what is that? That's exactly one forty-eight ounce uh palm wonderful uh jar, right? Uh you boil that down to 548 grams. Now it's at 50 bricks, right? Uh then you add 5.2 grams of citric acid, 2.6 grams of malic acid, and 15 drops of uh 8% succinct acid solution, and now you have pomegranate cordial.
Uh and then for the recipe, it oh, for the canned green beans, just buy canned green beans, which have their taste. The reason it's there is because it goes well with a rhubarb root. You can just put, even if you don't have a spinzall, you can just put the green beans, strain the juice, and put it into uh into a nut milk bag and just squeeze the ever-loving life out of it. And it'll be clear enough for this recipe. So it's uh one and a quarter ounces clan uh clarified green bean juice, uh, three-quarters of an ounce of rhubarb root, rhubarb root tinctured, three grams per 200.
Uh, that's an infusion, marigold petals, uh, three two hundred quarter ounce of that, uh, 15 drops of wormwood infusion, wormwood leaves, that's also a 3200, uh half ounce of reduced pomegranate, bar spoon of grapefruit oleosaccharum, make it the way you want. Three quarters of an ounce of poly D. You have to look on the look on whatever. Look on look, look, look me up. I've given the poly D recipe a million times.
Uh Matt, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. It's always a pleasure. We'll have you back. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Cooking issues.
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