Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold. You're also cooking issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, News State Studios in New York City, joined by no one here in the studio, except we got Joe Hazen rocking the pedals uh for the second half of our first ever doubleheader. How you doing? Hey, glad to see you a second time.
Yeah, yeah. Still have on the phone, thankfully, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez uh down there in Los Angeles. How you doing, Stas? I'm still okay. Well, remember, they're maybe only listening to this, so let's assume they haven't heard the last hour.
And in the upper left-hand corner, we got Quinn. How you doing? Good. And special guest for the second uh side of the doubleheader from Toronto right now, but coming from Los Angeles by way of Copenhagen, Kevin Jung from DOMA, longtime uh friend of the show. How you doing?
Good, good. Thanks for having me on again. Wait, the last time you were on was also doubleheader? I don't even remember these things. Yeah, Sola opened for me, yeah.
That was when I was in person. Oh man. Wait, so who did we do before you? We did uh you guys did Sola El Waley before. Oh, wow.
Yeah. Before uh me, yeah. So here's what I remember from the first time you were on in person. You uh knew that I loved the uh the pork loin situation, skin on uh, you know, that they do in in Denmark, and the one that I had had there most recently was uh Tolden Schnapps, which I think you told me to go to, right? Great.
Yep. And so uh for those of you that like haven't heard anything we've said before, you take uh you take the skin and you you take this cat claw situation and you drag it along the skin and you cut all the way through it, and that makes it so that when you roast it so that you get this like crackling on it, you can slice and get these perfect strips of crackling, and it's generally a good idea. So I it's hard to get, you can't get that cut of meat here normally, right? So consequently, I you can't get it. So I hadn't used it, and then before you came on, right?
I went to Denmark for to visit my son Dax, who's in Denmark, and so I went to all the Christmas markets, and there I had the I didn't get to go to Easted Grill, right? But I had like the you know, the pork Christmas sandwiches that they have at the markets there. Life, life-changing sandwich, fantastic sandwich. Yeah, yeah. So it's usually what you eat leftovers the day after Christmas.
You slice up the day old roast and you have it on a sandwich. So good. With the with the red cabbage. So I I couldn't find Cassis, uh, you know, a red uh currant juice, so I used jam, right? But then you know the you know, cook the vinegar and the red cabbage and the uh and the cassis jam.
So of that on the base. Yeah, enough enough vinegar that it'll make you cough. It should make you cough as you cook in it. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then uh and then uh, you know, the the flat the flash pickled uh, you know, uh cucumber salad that uh that they make there.
So is that and then the I made the remelade and people went crazy. The the sauce remolil, as they call it in in Danish, because they they uh they swallow the d the last letters of uh Remelade, so it's like uh kind of a mushy sounding word at the end. What what what is it with them in the language? Like like what no one can't this is why you can't pronounce anything there. It's crazy, you know what I'm saying?
I mean, I've I've lived in in Copenhagen for seven years, and I still can't don't dare speak the language. And they speak English so well over there too. So they're almost taking pity on me by speaking English to me. Yeah. Um but even like the sweets, the Swedish and Danish are quite similar.
But the Swedes say that when d Danes speak Danish, uh they it's like they're speaking Swedish with a mouthful of porridge. Yeah. Well, yeah, Nils used to say marbles. My friend Nils used to say marbles. Yeah.
So uh the two nods that I made to the fact that I'm not in Denmark, right, were one, like I said, you can't get that cut of meat. So I used pork shoulder that I had like flat I flattened out and meat glued it into like, you know, kind of a flat uh situation and then scored it and did it. But you couldn't slice it as neatly. It still I mean it tasted great. So it was a mix between like this day a Danish pork and a pulled pork.
It was like a like a kind of mashup between those two. And the other thing you booked it for longer, right? It was you were like a lower, slower. Yeah. I did it, I did it like like you know, old school like Chang used to do his bosoms.
You know what I mean? Like yeah. Yeah. And uh and the other thing that I did that was not uh uh approved was I I pretzelized the buns. So I did I did Harold McGee, uh, you know, I did uh my my hamburger rolls are not as rich as a brioche, but you know, it's milk milk and milk and butter and sugar in them.
Not a lot of sugar, but you know what I mean, but like semi-enriched hamburger buns. But I did I made the sodium carbonate solution where you bake the baking soda until it you know loses a third of its weight. And I think I I forget what percentage, I used whatever McGee said, painted it on and then sprinkled pretzel salt. And those were a big hit. I'm not saying that Danes need to do that, but they could.
Well, I mean, I think because you were saying it's not as rich as a brioche, and I I have this take on brioche burger buns. It's that I think it's one of the worst buttons you can use for a burger because it kind of starts to dissolve halfway through the burger. Yeah. Like I judge a good burger bun by your ability to eat half, go out for a cigarette, come back and pick the thing up again and not have a mess on your hands. A soupy mess.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh okay, can I just say this? Because uh sandwiches in general, like either thing is is a monstrosity, right? When you get a sandwich and it it totally soups out on you and the bread turns to to mush, nothing. That's that's unpleasant.
But I think the worst to me is when people and people love to serve, forget who it was that hates this the most, but uh someone was on recently who hates it. Uh when they serve, for instance, like a sandwich on a baguette, or when there's like massive amounts of bread and not and not enough kind of moisteness, it always gives me the hiccups and it's a nightmare. So like a dry sandwich with too much bread to me is the worst offense that you can you can commit. And I saw my son, you know, Booker. Usually he thought I was gonna get mad because when he disassembles a sandwich, right?
I'm like, you shouldn't disassemble a sandwich. Somebody took the care to make that sandwich. But we were at the botanical garden, I paid $15 for a tuna sandwich, you know, a subpar tuna sandwich. And halfway through it, he took the top layer of bread off. I'm like, you know what, son?
Good call. There was too much bread on that damn sandwich. That's a poorly made sandwich. Like a poorly made sandwich doesn't deserve to stay together. Do you know what I'm saying?
Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, too much bread is, I mean, like, it's a nightmare. It's like it's like uh, you know, if you've said something. Maybe the Danes are onto something with uh the open face sandwiches thing.
Uh this maybe they're they're more clever than you think. So how do you how do you pronounce that s'more bro think it's not a sandwich? So we how do you pronounce it? I can't pronounce it properly. Yeah.
And I refuse to attempt it on live air because I will be made fun of incessantly by people I know. Probably by REL, actually. Yeah, but here's the thing, right? Not a sandwich. Not a sandwich.
It's not a sandwich. So, like, you know, we were going to Tolden Schnapps, which is this great place where the guy can pour, like he can he can take your schnapps glass and pour his schnapps to a meniscus, right? And and then you have to figure out how to lift it up. So, you know, I went there twice. I went there back just recently.
I took Dax there because he hadn't been there. And all of the people I was with were like, oh, we're going to this place, we're getting sandwiches. I'm like, they are not sandwiches, right? They're about as much of a sandwich as a hot dog is, i.e. not.
You know, by soft toast or uh it's just a it's just you know, stuff served on bread. You know? Yeah, I guess like like eggs benedict is not a sandwich either. No by by qualification, yeah. Yeah, Stas, you're gonna you have back like if if I hand you like a little piece of like like like a thin slice of rye bread and then I put a bunch of herring on it and then like a little bit of like like an egg salad or a shrimp salad, is that a sandwich?
No, no, no. No, no, no, no. Anything anything that like doesn't ask you to pick it up is not a sandwich. See a hotel you can always tell who's a tourist in Copenhagen is if they pick up the uh the Danish open space sandwich. Yeah.
That's why you shouldn't call it a sandwich, because you're just you're here's another thing about Denmark. What is it with the stubby Christmas trees? I don't know, maybe maybe low ceilings? But not that low. I don't know actually.
What does everyone live in a tree. I've never I've never had a I mean they're it's all old like I live in a hundred-year old house that's like kind of falling apart, but kind of also held together by old engineering. Yeah. All I'm saying is is that the Christmas trees, they are, and I think I can say this. I don't think it's a curse word.
They are the chodes of Christmas trees. They are wider than they are tall. They are crazy. I don't understand it. It's got it's gotta be cultural.
At first time I saw it, I was like, oh, this no one's gonna sell, no one's gonna buy from this Christmas tree seller. You know what I mean? Because like, alone we have choked trees. And then I looked around. Everyone, everyone had them.
Hmm. Anyway. Yeah, I guess I maybe I never noticed because I've never actually had a tree in my house in in Copenhagen, just because it for me a Christmas tree is so such a pain to manage after Christmas when all the needles are falling off and they're everywhere, and it'll be the next Christmas year after you're still finding needles in the couch and things like that. So not a fan of not a fan of them. No.
So uh speaking uh staying in the Christmas sandwich uh zone and Christmas markets in general, Dr. Smokehouse wants to know the perfect uh cut of pork that the Danes would use. Uh so they use three. Um there's the loin, the skin on loin, there's a skin on belly, and then there's what we call the skin on neck. Um, which is basically the the boned out neck part of the shoulder of a of a of a pig with the skin still on it.
And that's what we use when we do Christmas lunch at Noma for the staff. Um but this is like a re like most most of the time it's gonna be loin, and then you're kind of worried about crisping the skin, rendering the fat cap, and then also not overcooking the loin. So neck is kind of the happy medium where it's a good amount of lean, a good amount of fat without it being belly alloy. But it stays sliceable. So in other words, you don't have to cook it so long that it that it turns into like a pulled pork situation.
Like uh like a pulled pork situation. Uh no, like so usually what we'll do is we'll it gets roasted on a rack and we'll we'll put water underneath um in the roasting pan. So it's not sitting in water, but there's water below. So the water as it steams in the oven was gonna sort of gently cook it from the bottom up as well. So the idea of being that A, it's a bit juicier, it cooks faster, and then B, you don't have um you know like over carmelized roasting juices on the bottom of the pan that you gotta for however long to get the the carbonization up.
So a lot of the Danish blogs that I looked at, they throw aromatics into that pan and then use the use the like leftover liquid to sauce up. Do you guys do that or is it not a good idea? Uh you definitely can. Um for for Christmas here in Toronto, uh, I'm making porchetta kind of with the Danish like I've I don't ironically I don't have the the Danish diplomatic bunch of porch pork skin claw that I gave you. So I'm gonna have to do that by hand.
But uh well, just get the claw, dude. You gave me your only claw? Yeah, I gave you my only claw. Where they're from? They're from they're from Aarhus or something like that, right?
Yeah, so there's there's uh like the only kitchen supply store pretty much in in Copenhagen, they stock these. And then uh I I bought one because I knew it was coming to to do the show with you in New York, and I was like, oh yeah. Well, I appreciate it. It is a good device. But I don't I don't I don't have one myself.
So if you're doing it in America and you do it like I do, you also have to like knife score it down the middle because a rolled out uh rolled out shoulder is too long. So the the the Danish cuts are only maybe eight inches long, I'd say, right? When they're raw? Yeah. In that zone.
Whereas, like when you roll out a, when you roll out a, you know, uh, a shoulder, it's like it's like 14 inches long. You know, so it's too long. Too long. Anyway. Uh wait, so what was I gonna say?
Oh, yeah. So we also stopped by Noma projects. And oh, nice. So the the greenhouse shop where the restaurant is. Yeah.
So if for those of you who are lucky enough to have ever gone to NOMA when it's uh, you know, fully operational battle station, you go into the greenhouse, they serve you some cocktails, you wait until the seating, and then they pull you into your table when you're doing it. That's a fair assessment of what happens, right, Kevin? Yep. Yep. So, but you can go in there now and you can either buy coffee in the back or you can buy products, including some of the like dot dashi RX and all the delicious stuff, which we'll talk about in a minute.
But in the very front of the shop, right, and Migoya's making, so like you know, Migoya is now doing pastry there. So they so it's you and Migoya are making crazy. Yeah. So I go in there and I'm like, there's a pot, there's a giant graduated cylinder in which are these weird looking like jello meteorites. And then you saw the tree sap.
Yeah. Then there's a bowl of little like amber looking, like, you know, they look like Captain Crunch made out of amber. Okay. And I'm like, dude, to the guy who was in it. So like, what the hell is this?
And he's like, oh, this is uh peach tree sap. And I was like, I was like, are you well, are you are you selling this? No. I'm like, what does it taste like? I asked all these questions, didn't give me a taste of it.
I have no idea what that stuff tastes like or what you use it for. He's like, it's not, it's not ready yet. We're not, we're not we're not selling it yet. I was like, why do you have it here, dude? Why are you why are you torturing me?
And due to a reaction from people who visit, they were curious. We're in the business of curiosity. But what is it? What do you use it for? Yeah, so it's uh like like the gentleman said, it's uh peach tree sap.
So it's as the usually from grafting, when you graft a tree, the sap will ooze out of it, you know, harden. And then we'll we'll harvest that and polish it down. And at that point you can rehydrate it. And you know, if you rehydrate in the water, which is like what you saw in the giant graduated cylinder, it doesn't really taste like anything, but you can rehydrate it in birch water, maple water, you can rehydrate it in uh in in a stock if you want to make it more savory. So we've used it in desserts, kind of like uh a chewy gelatinous jello, where we've served uh some of the the amps, like the ants that tastes like lemongrass with it.
And then we've also done savory because when it's when it's savory and uh rehydrated, it has that texture of like uh like braised beef tendon, that kind of luxurious collagenous chew to it. And how heat stable is it, if at all. Uh no, you can you can cook it, you can braise it. Um and as far as we know, you we we've never been able to overcook it. Like you end up usually over reducing the liquid and then you have to let it out again or something like that.
But it in terms of like falling apart, it doesn't really do that. So uh so uh f I forgot to mention, right? So what Kevin does, and what what's your actual title? Research chef? What is what's your title?
Yeah, I'm I'm head chef of research and developments. Head chef of research and development. Sorry, research and production, yeah. Or fermentation lab Noma Noma projects. Right, okay.
So like uh not the like your domain is that kind of bunker building next to the next to so if you go to NOMA, it's like a it's like a glass, literal like a like a glass house, right? And then, you know, uh, what's it called? What are those called? Is that what they call them? Glass houses where you grow plants?
Greenhouse. Greenhouse, greenhouse. Greenhouse? Greenhouse, greenhouse, yeah, yeah. Then the then the the hyper fancy dining room, and then to the right of the to the right of the greenhouse is like this like bunker looking structure.
Was that an old is that actually an old bunker? Because that entire area used to be Danish military. All right, it is an old bunker. Yeah, exactly. So that was an old bunker.
So the w the water you walked past on your way to the dining room, the water that's on your left-hand side, that's a man-made lake that they dug out to make this bunker that we are currently working out of. Um it used to be the the fortification of old Copenhagen, like that used to be in City Linux. Um, because of that, it's kind of like a like a protected, like a UNESCO type of situation where we can't change certain things about the building. So, like when you walk through, you probably looked up and saw like the the raw iron beams in the in the ceiling, and and there's a lot of brick and stone and things that we can't change. Um, and that's because of this designation.
Huh, even interior, huh? Most of the time over here. Yeah. Like the the in like the wooden bookshelves, like we can put a kitchen in, but there was like we couldn't put a a gas line, like a gas range or anything in there. Not that we would because we're we're very pro induction.
Yeah, you know why? Induction works. Yes. I mean, at the home I have a gas stove, which I love, but but for for the the longer term sustainability of of a kitchen and cooking and things like that, I can understand the appeal of of induction. I mean, there's certain things like uh also use a walk on on induction, you know?
Like well for it. I have to say, I always thought that was the case, and maybe still, but like I used an incredibly powerful induction burner with a walk once. It was like it was like five kilowatts. It was something stupid. And I could I could take the walk up to the curie point like very quickly.
Now, yes, if you pick it up and toss it, as you pick it up and toss it, you're not on the heat anymore. But the minute it's back on that induction, it is rocking. You know what I mean? So like, you know, especially if you're if you're doing more uh if you're doing less hand tossing style and more like short handle short handle walk work with like uh with like a spatula. I mean, I don't see why you can't get good product out of it.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you just need to get your hands on this uh uh you know Starship Enterprise uh walk burner. That's crazy. Crazy. I mean, like still um induction walk burners now.
I don't know if they're as powerful. No, they're like puny. They're like more available. It's like it's like it's like trying to use a walk on your on your 25,000 BTU or not even, you know, like home gas stove. It's like it's you know what I mean?
It's like you know, it's a sad situation. Yeah. Because like you just don't have enough you don't have enough oomph to to get the metal where it needs to be. You know what I mean? You can't, it's not nimble in in that way.
But I don't know, Quinn. Maybe, maybe online, maybe especially now, like, you know, someone sells something that I mean, these were expensive commercial units, but I mean it's possible that you could sell one, especially with no safeties or anything on it. The main problem with induction is that it it it like crappy induction tends to break. You know what I mean? Um, like quite often.
In fact, or it'll lose strength after a while. Like it'll say you're on maximum temperature and you're not anywhere near that after a few years. Yeah. You know, uh, I just had a problem recently with my fancy the the Breville uh control freak, where in the middle of cooking my meal yesterday, my my T2, my second Thanksgiving, it uh wouldn't recognize pans anymore. I was like, oh no.
Oh no. You know what I mean? Like, oh my god. Yeah. So I didn't those aren't cheap, I hope.
No, I so I unplugged it, walked away, came back, and it came back to life. But I don't know whether it's on its last legs or what, but I use that thing all the time. I love that thing. Um the reason you are in Los Angeles, Kevin, if for the NOMA land, is that Noma is doing how long of a pop-up? Uh it's gonna be about 16 weeks, I think.
Yeah, about 16 weeks. Sometime in spring. Yeah. Yeah, we've left the opening date still ambiguous because we we have yet to announce the the first day and uh the last day, but it'll be in the spring. But you're also going to release the next, well, NOMA is gonna release the next NOMA book guide to flavor at the same time, and you've you've done sections of this.
All right. So we have to like, you know, Nastasia wants me to come out and say hello to you in person at some point for the LA thing. Maybe we could uh I don't know if we could work it out with Joe, we can do some sort of uh broadcast or something. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. That'd be that'd be great, actually. So uh better weather than New York, that's for sure. Fly in in the morning and then fly out in the afternoon same day. Gotta be mean to me.
Gotta always be mean to me. Uh so what is it uh why why does Noma want to go to LA? No offense, Daz. Why would Noma want to go to LA of all places? Well, I think one of the big factors was uh so kind of the the whole basis of what makes Noma norma is that we're we're very much about time and place, about being in Scandinavia and how the growing season is so short and fermentation came out of a way of preserving the things and how we have to take advantage of what's in season while it's in season and make sure that we could keep things in some modicum of either freshness or or high flavor until the the winter or through the winter.
And now we we have the opportunity to go somewhere where the growing season, I mean it ebbs and flows, but there's not really a season where nothing's growing. And there's a a uh Rolodex of ingredients that are so different from what we're what we're used to using in uh in Copenhagen. So the opportunity presented itself where we could take the team on the road and and go and do something so so unique to what we've done for over 20 years by it by opening us up to so many things that we weren't allowed to use previously, like avocados and citrus and famously olive oil. We were um we were very much like a no olive oil kind of restaurant because you you wouldn't get olive oil in that part of the world. And now we're in California where they produce olive oil here.
And I've spoken to Nick Fullman about full and visiting producers and things like that. So it's very exciting as uh on the kitchen side, especially to to now see all these ingredients that previously you weren't able to use. So does it actually depress you to have delicious ingredients? I'm just messing with you. Well, the thing so I'm I mean, I'm from the East Coast, and everyone jokes about uh like California strawberries in winter, and it might you know, some restaurants serving strawberries like yeah, like Driscoll, California.
And then you go to you go to California, you go to Santa Monta Market, you eat a strawberry, and you're like, oh, California strawberries, not actually that bad. Maybe the joke is on all of us east coasters. Oh no, but during season, they're the best things in the world. Yeah. I mean, are you guys gonna be there during the season?
Uh I don't think we'll be there for peak season. Um we'll be we'll be here for citrus season, which is very exciting, all the different uh varieties of citrus. Um but I think berries and stone fruit season, it might be just after we finish up. You guys gotta see who ended up buying Gene Lester's farm outside of Watsonville because he had he had like hundreds of citrus varieties. And they would all be legitimate because they're all growing there.
He dead. He way dead. Gene Lester. Yeah, he's dead. But uh the California fruit explorers, and I'm sure Nastasia down there can put you in touch with Carp, who was like, you know, he knows all those people and all the fancy, unless you're already in touch with him.
Yeah, I've I visited David. I I uh visited him at his home and we talked fruit for like what, like five hours or something. I could have gone longer, we just had to do something else. Did you talk about pornographic apples? Yes.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. But that's his whole dissertation on on uh on high flavor uh in fruits and the mixture of aroma and sweetness. And uh then we we went went up to uh to Andy's Orchard, which is like the Andy Mariani's orchard that he collaborates with uh just north of uh San Martin, I believe, California. Yeah, and uh visited the orchards there. But incredible fruit here.
It's no some of the the most amazing flavors I've had in terms of orchards and fruit and and also new kinds of fruit that I've never even seen before. He's also a date master carp. Did you go did you do dates with him? Uh no, we didn't do dates with him. Um we did visit a few other date farms as well.
Fascinating, fascinating fruit because you look at them and you think, oh, well, someone's picked them and dried them, but they actually they ripen like that on tree, which I didn't know until uh until I visited and they showed me what they look like coming off the tree. Yeah. Here in New York, we do uh we do apples and uh also apples. That's it. Yeah.
But Stas, we also have apples. And look, in in August. Not really. I would not buy a pair from us. I mean, like, you know, no.
Uh but like in in August, September, we have uh, you know, we've got God's tomatoes, and that's basically it. That's what we do. You know what I mean? Everything else is fine. I mean, it's similar to Ontario, right?
Like Ontario, we get good tomatoes and and peaches, tomatoes and peaches, dog fruit or you get good small fruit too. You got good berry game. Yeah. I I mean, after living in Denmark, the strawberries, strawberries elsewhere don't taste the same as the ones in Denmark. I don't know if you had any of the um strawberries in in Copenhagen when you visited during uh the summer because you you came for vegetable season, so it would have been during berry season.
I don't know if you had any of the strawberries in Denmark to be very extraordinary. I did not I didn't I do not remember having them, let's put it that way. So probably not. Well you'll have to come back another summer and I'll I'll take you on uh we'll go to the market because there's a stall there and they have just all about insulting me these days. Hey, by the way, a shout out.
If anyone is going to Copenhagen, like walk, like go to the Noma projects, right? You know, uh, you pick up a bottle of Dash Dashi RX or the uh or the uh Yuzu corn hot sauce, which is delicious. And then uh, although now comes in two spiciness variations, I see. Yeah, because the Europeans are uh have shall we say slightly gentler palettes or cutscase intolerance losers anyway. So if you keep walking down that road, don't stop at the at the CCCC, which is the contemporary Cope Copenhagen Circuits College, right?
But instead go to the contemporary Copenhagen art museum. I think it's only three C's in that one, and check out the James Tyrrell work there. Completely the best Tyrrell work I think I've ever seen. Only 15 people are allowed. Eight, 15, no, eight people are allowed in at a time for 15 minutes.
You have to take off your shoes. They put you in a room where he controls all of the light, and you feel like your brain is being erased. It's kind of amazing. Anyway, it's a shout out to that. Uh also I forget the name of the artist, but there was an amazing bubble exhibit there.
Very well done. Anyway, so uh yeah, enjoyed it. Anyway, so um, what else? Let's get this question out of the way. So, in case I forget, because it is the holiday season coming up.
Uh Nick W called in and said or wrote in and said, Could we get the bar Contras uh spec for the brandy savage drink? Uh I have gotten a hold of the elusive uh uh Blanche Calvados from Druin, which is a very good, very good, like not expensive Blanche Calvados, right? Uh not non-expensive, good. So here's the trick. I think Quinn says I've given the recipe out before for uh the cranberry cordial, but the real secret is the cranberry cordial.
So what you do is uh briefly, you buy unsweetened cranberry juice, please, unsweetened, please, please. Uh, and then uh what we're doing is instead of uh acid adjusting it, we're boiling it down to get the specs right. So you take a 960 grams, grams of unsweetened cranberry juice and you boil it down to 307 grams. You then add 197 grams of sugar. Reweigh it because more stuff will have evaporated off, and make sure that it comes back to 504 grams, then you know it's correct.
Now, that has six per, because I did the math for you already, that is six percent acidity and 50% 50 bricks, 50% sugar by weight. And so it's uh the same acidity as lemon or lime juice and the same sugar as simple syrup. So that's the cordial, and then it's one and a half, which is 45 mils of the Drouan Blanche, uh, one half of brouillo, uh, which is uh 15 milliliters, and 7.5 milliliters of the uh reduced cranberry cordial, which is a quarter ounce. Just stir, you know, give it a good stir over ice and pour it into a chilled Nicon Nora. If you don't have Drouin Blanche, you can use uh like a lighter cognac, don't use a heavy one, a light cognac, but then it's gonna need a twist of orange to make it taste good.
All right, but I want to get that out of the way in case someone wanted to make that for the Christmas uh or whatever. Uh Kevin, you might have something on this. Uh TV Mush wrote in: Can citric acid stabilized whipped cream? I don't even know why you would say that. It would curdle the the cream, wouldn't it?
Yeah, I don't know why you'd say that just listen to a podcast unless you go all the way like like with your um like with your milk and cream syrup that's but then not a lot of sugar yeah just listen to a podcast where citric acid was mentioned as an emulsifier and ice cream just tried using a Xanthan slurry which works okay so the the trick with with the trick with um milks in general is that they are stable again once they've gone way below their isoelectric point in terms of pH but as you pass through you're gonna curdle it so the trick with like my milk syrup my cream syrup is is that you you um prevent large amounts of curdling by just adding a boat ton of sugar um yeah so no but I'll tell you what if you want to stabilize a whipped cream if you want to have whipped cream and you want to add a bunch of acid to it a really easy way to do it is to just lock the acid into a fluid gel and then you can you can add up you can make an extremely tart whipped cream if you use like you know a le a lemon an agar based lemon fluid gel works fantastically I've done that a bunch so I don't know can you can you guys think of anything else on the uh on the on that question I can I mean if they just want stabilized whipped cream also just gel to work fine yeah although I have to say I have to say hydrate it. Uh I've I've done the agar one. I've put it on my counter for three days. It just stays there. I mean, it's the most stable thing I've ever seen in my life.
You know what I mean? It's like done. You know what I mean? Like finished. Um anyway.
Uh. So by the way, Quinn, did Quinn uh in the last uh thing say he was going to spin his soda gelato and then taste it. Have you spun it and tasted it? Yeah, uh, I would say I actually didn't use enough moxy. I thought the flavor would really punch through, but it still tastes good.
But I probably could have used a squish more of the soda. But you really break apart the flavor. I think you can you can taste the actual components better as the gelato versus just uh drinking it. Hmm. Yeah, you should get the syrup.
Are you using the actual soda? You should get the syrup. Well, here you had to pay through the nose for the soda. How much pay through the nose? How much?
Well, it's cheaper to ship syrup than it is to ship water to uh Vancouver Island, right? Well, I I couldn't again I could barely find the the soda. What the hell made you want to use Moxie of all the sodas on earth? Why Moxie? I thought the bitter fragrant flavor, well, again, the the the flavor I got was actually quite uh Christmasy.
But it's like uh licorice and clove and all spice. It's a good. Speaking of Christmassy, the new hot drink on the menu at Bar Contra, because we just got the red hot pokers back, and I now I now do a no weld red hot poker, uh, is an old drink by uh bartender who now lives in um in Berlin, named Dana Corey, crazy guy. Love that guy. Changed his socks at least three times every shift because he ha hated s having swampy feet.
Interesting dude. So he had this drink called the the Bishop's Wife. Why it was called that, I don't know. But it is a mixture of bronca menta and cognac and Demarara. Very simple sugar, you know, uh syrup.
And then you flame it. And now we we used to just serve it like that. Now we serve it with a Tim Tam. You guys remember Tim Tams? You know, Tim Tams, the Australian wafer thing.
Yep. Tim Tam Slam. Yeah, Tim Tam Slam. So here's the thing. Americans, if you've never done the Tim Tam Slam, you're supposed to bite opposite corners of the wafer cookie off, suck hot coffee through the cookie.
As soon as you taste coffee in your mouth, you know that you've saturated with hot coffee. You then lift it up, it will instantly melt. You pop the whole sucker in your mouth, right? Seems simple. Yeah.
But Americans who don't understand this can't seem to do it properly, right? So like they'll bite the whole end off. I'm like, what are you doing? It needs to stay a straw. What what are you what are you crazy?
Like they crack it in half. They do all sorts of these abominations. So because we're doing the Tim Tams at the bar, we're actually just pre-cutting the corners. So that all you have to do is suck on it. Ah, you dummy proof it.
Yeah. I'm sure they still miss it. So what happens with the corners? I don't know. Maybe they eat that.
I don't know, yeah. That's the you know, the cooks. Old milk and uh Tim Sam corners. Yeah, Tim Tam corners, yeah. Maybe fabulous can like throw them into some ice cream or something, you know what I mean?
But we need a lot of Tim Tam corners. But uh anyway, that that's that's what we're that's what we're up to over there. Um Tim Tam Slam is a good thing. Someday I'll go back. I think Nastasia, as much as she hates on the Australian accent, would actually enjoy Australia quite a bit.
Oh I think you would. Especially like I think you would like the like especially if the weird crap that is like only there, like the the the birthday bread where you just put the butter on the bread and then and then cover it in sprinkles and like that's your like this because it's really bizarre and not like fancy or high end, just bizarre and only there. That seems like it's right up your alley. I know, but I really have no interest in going there. Okay.
All right. All right. Uh all right. So this is a uh general question for uh all guests. What is your go-to food snack post fancy what is your go to food or snack post fancy meal?
Hmm. I was taking our I was uh uh see, I was talking our new I was taking our new executive chef out the day after our work dinner to a pretty nice spot in the city. He said even after all the food and drinks, he still ended up getting French fries, got me thinking, what food do I always have room for? I feel like I always have room for a good slice of pizza, but even uh I was too tapped out even for pizza. I'll tell you what, when I went to Noma, they had to roll me in a wheelbarrow home.
I did not want anything else. You know what I'm saying? Well, you also went for the longest kitchen tour in the history of at least in the history of me being there. Yeah, no, it's great. It's great.
But I mean, like, in other words, like I think like one of the issues about tasting menus, right? And if we say fancy, I'm assuming you mean that is that it's very hard to get them just right. If you're doing 20 things, like a little bit over one way or the other, and you're either viciously underfeeding or vicious viciously over, it's hard to get right, right, Kevin. Yeah, and I mean you also come up against uh a lot of people have this predetermined notion that you're always hungry after tasting menu because it's all the portion sizes are so small, and how do you get full off of eating that? And so what we do when we create a menu is we'll actually we'll cook the whole menu.
Uh if like one portion's worth of the entire menu. And this is during the research development phase, like when we finalize the plates that we want to do. So we will end up doing this for the LA menu eventually. And then we'll we'll take the edible parts of every dish and we'll put them into a container to weigh it. And then so we have weights, like we know how heavy every menu is uh that we've ever done at Noma because we do this as part of the resist development process.
Just I love it. It's not too much or too little. Give me the range. Uh I can't remember off the top of my head. Um yeah, honestly, I I I'll have to send you the when I when I check the notes, but um we we'll do this we'll play a game and we'll look at it and then every every test kitchen that we're asking guess what they think the like price is right for like closest without going over.
Um and they usually some some kind of uh like a dinner dinner for two at some restaurants arranged if you get it right. Nice. But I think that's a good idea. You put it in a big jar. Like when you yeah, I mean jelly beans are in a jar.
Yeah, it's uh we do we just have a container on a scale and then every every dish that's cooked, because obviously we're cooking these dishes over and over just to to tweak them and things like that. And then if it's like the like in crab serving, right? Like we don't put the whole the shell and everything in there, we take the part that you would eat and put it in the container. And then the next course we'll take I don't know, the muscle out of the shell and we'll put the part you eat in the container. So by the end of it, you have what is essentially gonna be the inside of a guest's stomach, because it's only the parts that you would consume in this container.
And then we weigh back and then we can kind of gauge is it too much, is it too little? Small things, like is it we only do two parts on this or three parts on this? Is it too like a few grams too much broth, a few grams too little? Like there's a lot of uh a lot of tweaking that has to go on when we do these menus right before we uh we serve it to the public. I love the idea that all this like super fancy, like like highly tweaked stuff, you just kinda chum it up and throw it into a bucket.
You're like, all right, here it is, chummed up and thrown in a bucket. And then are are you ever like are you ever like, nah, the bucket's too light, add some more. Or is it just for knowledge? Uh it's it's just for for knowledge. Um, but if we if we look at it and we're like, oh, it's actually a really light menu.
Now obviously there's certain things like not that we would serve foie gras, but foie gras, for example, is not the heaviest food, but it is something that you can't eat very much of. So we have to take that in con into consideration as well, obviously. But there have been instances where it's like, is this enough food? Do we add an extra course? Um just to bring up the number a little bit.
Because like like you said, our goal is that you're not rolling out of the restaurant, but you're also not hungry afterwards. So it's just like this middle ground that we uh I think we just drive for. Part of the rolling was also you guys liquored us up pretty good. But uh I think you know, the thing War Shortle was talking about with the eating afterwards, I think we it is part of this old school kind of uh war chortle does not appear to be anti-fine dining, but there is a bit of an F you, you didn't feed me enough, I spent a billion dollars on dinner, I'm still gonna go get a slice of pizza situation. You know what I mean?
That is a real thing. Yeah, like people go for a cheeseburger after after a tasty menu or something like that. Yeah. Although, yeah. I mean, as I say, I think it's very it's very difficult.
I like I've never been full, I've never not been able to eat because I don't have enough money to go to sushi and then totally feel tapped out. Have any of you guys ever been totally tapped out at a sushi restaurant? Uh I think once I think you see, I think just once. Yeah. Yeah.
Usually my wallet taps out before my mouth does. You know what I mean? Don't you think zero, Dave, when you had that squillamantis, you were like, I don't know about this anymore. Well, listen, not that, you know, I can't believe he's not dead, first of all, which is bizarre. He's still alive, that guy, I think.
You think he's a hundred now. Uh I wasn't full, I just thought the squillamantis was a terrible dish. And by the way, I'm not against manta shrimp as a thing. That particular manta shrimp was a nightmare, right? But I was not full at the end.
The whole meal only lasted 20 minutes. How could I possibly get full? You know? Um, I heard you you and Stars speed ran uh Jiro. Well, Mark Ladner, who was going with us at the time, he was speed running out of his backside because of a trip he had taken where he got poisoned.
So he was in and out anyway. And you know, I don't enjoy I don't enjoy eating slowly. So if you put something in front of me, it's eaten, right? So then Mark and Nastasia felt like they needed to keep up with me. Right.
And so the whole meal was over in like 22 seconds. You know what I'm saying? It was literally 22 seconds. You weren't speedrunning. You were just running.
They were speedrunning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And Zero was keeping up with Dave as the pacemaker, you know?
So or the son of everyone helped. It's like everything else, though. I tell people don't pace yourself to me. That's why people are like, I'm like, literally, don't wait. I'm like, don't wait.
When people get served first, I'm like, literally, don't wait. I will still be finished before you're done. If you think he would have would not have waited, he would not have waited for us. Yes, he would have. Where is this coming from?
Where is this quote unquote knowledge coming from? You could see that he was looking to you to keep the pace of the freaking. He wasn't looking to me for squat. He hated me as much as he hated you. There's no, there's like, you know what I mean?
It's like this is just a theory you have, not based, and we're never gonna test it. Because he finally passed it over to his like 80-something year old son now, poor guy, waiting his whole life to run the restaurant. He doesn't get to do it till he's 80s, like the King Chucky Cheese of sushi restaurants. That's King Charles, wherever his current number is. You know what I mean?
But it's like uh, you know, don't blame me for you feeling you had to rush to to match me. We should have split parties. You should have sat by yourself, and then Mark and I should have sat by ourselves. Then it was like it would be like two separate parties. A we couldn't have gotten the reservation if we had done that.
Right. There's no way we could have gotten that reservation if we had we only did that because literally the park Hyatt like twisted everybody's arm off to get us that reservation, like in like one day. A miracle. Like there's no way we should have gotten that reservation. Mark said that we like to carry things on our back, and then that was the end of the day.
Yeah. For for the record, Nastasi and I don't like calling things like idiots. It's just we have no choice. Just have no choice. Um so what do you what have you messed with so far?
At what point in setting this up are you with the NOMA right now in LA? Uh so we haven't started actual dishes yet. We're doing um kind of an ingredient exploration. So to rewind a little bit, we were here in March on like a covert research mission under the guise like we had not announced we would come in to LA or anything. So we were visiting farms under the guise of like, oh, we're just in town and we just we're chefs and we'd like to visit and just see your avocados farm.
You literally said we're chefs. We're chefs. You might have heard of a restaurant, it's called NOMU. Is that what you did? No, no, no.
We don't mention the restaurant. All right. We said that we like because we're also very multinational. So people are kind of very very confused about how we were all from different parts of the world, but we were here looking at things and and asking really weird questions. Like we're asking date farmers, like, what do you do with gun rights dates?
Or do you ever use the branches? What about the like questions that no one no same person would be asking a date farmer? Um so we we did this, it was about three weeks in March, and we visited a whole bunch of farms and fish purveyors and and just to get a a a grasp of what would be around at that time of year if we were to come back the next year and and open up around around the springtime. Wait, hold on, hold on. Were you literally thinking you were gonna do your oil combi oven vacuum bag situation with date branches and you were talking about that yeah like that's something we we thought about one of like we're we're asking about the branches one of our guys has already broken off from the group and is just gnawing on on stripped off branches and things like that.
But like they're palm trees though, right? So like they don't they don't I mean they're just a whole different McGill right did you get anything good out of it? No, but but now we know right that's that's part of the the R and D of it all. But so so right now we we're we're situated in we've built uh a test kitchen and I've got a a fermentation lab where my incubators are uh our marijuana growing temps that have the the humidity and temperature regulators which actually works quite well for growing things like Koji. Um and then we're just bringing in ingredients at various points of ripeness various types of ingredients um like we're we're really like we we ordered in every avocado we could find the like the the haas obviously but then you get into like the Mexicola where you can it's small and you can eat the skin and the skin tastes like licorice and then we're roasting them full in coals we're we're preserving the skin like a like a jam like a marmalade and then trying different techniques and that's just with avocados and then you think about all the other things that we can work on as well the whole a whole bunch of citrus coming in and what can we do with the piss?
What can we do with the skin, the the flesh, the juice um so right now is that kind of explosive uh part of the research development where we're just trying to gather as many ingredients as possible and gather as much information as what is possible to do with all of these different things that we have. Anything you thought would be a slam dunk, but you haven't been able to crack it yet. Uh cactus is hard because of the spine. Yeah. Cactus has been uh like we've made progress.
There's some cool stuff we're doing, but initially like we were all looking at each other, like, man, everything in California is really bitter or really slimy. And then that was just a big hurdle of us trying to figure out exactly how to, you know, with using things like calcium hydroxide to to deal with the slime because traditionally it would be baking soda that that's uh a lot of the the Mexican families would use to prepare the no palets without the ski the slime and things like that. So eventually you kind of develop a new a new technique and method for all these ingredients. But initially it was just tasting a lot of weird stuff. At Booker and Dax, we used to have it.
Go ahead. Can you talk about what you use the spin ball for to kind of plug our product? Yes. So um so Nastasia very graciously gifted us with uh three spin balls. Um so I don't know if I've set the record for uh for the uh the most simultaneous spin balls running.
Uh but we've been using it for for herb oils, uh the same way we use our our buckets and our cage back home, so we can increase the yield by spinning our our pulp um to get the the most extraction out. We've made uh avocado oil, which um you take your avocados, you you dehydrate them, the split out the fat, and then you spin the pulp in the spin off. It almost uh a horrible noise all you do is like a size now tasting off when you've got three of those things running, but uh we're able to get that little seven to ten percent yield of oil that that tastes like an avocado, which is really cool. Yeah, for herbs, it actually really is good at dewatering an herb oil. Swear to god, it is.
You just have to get the numbers right. That's the trick. I think it's why that a lot of people don't do the the stuff, is because it's all about floating the oil off of the top. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Anyway. Yeah, and we're notoriously like uh like obviously high high flavor, but I uh high difficulty low yield, high uh like kind of restaurant where we'll do a whole bushel of something in order to get two tablespoons of a concentrated thing out of it. So using a spinz all is uh it allows us to maintain our yield margins because otherwise a lot of what we do wouldn't be possible. Yeah. Nice.
So back to cactus. I had to do that. Are you able to talk about what anyway is Kevin able to talk about any uh initial results from uh Rancho Gordo Miso? Any hits? Um yeah, so I did the I did a test in Copenhagen with Red Fog Ordo beans.
Um I haven't made a batch in California yet, but we used something called the California Corona bean. And it was um in general, they were all very high quality misos, but I think because they're heirloom beans, they all had very distinct flavor, uh which is good on one hand, but if we're using our misos for uh mixing with other ingredients like like pink pepper corns, which are everywhere in in in Los Angeles, or with um citrus peel to things like that. Sometimes the the strength of having a bean that's so delicious and has so much flavor almost interferes with what we're trying to infuse the miso with. So it's definitely something we've got in the back pocket because it it works and it's delicious. Um but right now it's uh not something I've produced in California yet.
Yeah. I used to be able back to cactus. I used to be able to get the snot out of it because we had a drink on the menu. I didn't develop it, where we would blend the cactus and then spin it, and it wasn't snotty, and then I tried to recreate it when I was redoing the book, and I couldn't. It all turned to snot.
It was all terrible. I couldn't get anything that tasted good. So it's one of those techniques that at one point I knew how to do it and I've lost it. Like pressure cooking mustard seeds. I can't make them good anymore.
For some reason, I can't make a good batch anymore. They all taste bitter to me now. Well, we've noticed that too with uh the cactus as well. Like we we ran some cactus through a juicer and like the slime separated out, and we had this like like water, water viscosity cactus juice. And then we did it again with another cactus, like the same species of cactus.
We did it again, and it was like mucus. Yeah, weird, right? So I don't know if it's depends on the cactus or on on a rain, maybe because we had a massive rainstorm um around the time that we were doing this. So maybe the cactus was more waterlogged. I don't know.
Uh yeah, we've been noticing that too is the the difference between ingredients. These are all uh opuntia species, uh you know, uh different opuntias that are lying around. Uh but same ones, and of course I think the paddles come from the same ones that give you the prickly pear stuff, um, which are also of widely varying quality. You know what I'm saying? Like the really good stuff is good, and the really bad stuff is terrible.
You know what I mean? It tastes like pool water. Yes, awful, and bad texture too. You know what I mean? The bad ones.
Whereas I so like for years I wouldn't even use them, and then I forget where I was. I don't forget where I was. Like maybe Juarez or something, and like I got all the choconosle, and they were like, That stuff's good, you know what I mean? Which is like whatever they were calling. So it's just like these things are so variable.
It's like mulberries, they're so variable. Like, even like one tree next to the other, one's gonna be terrible and one's gonna be delicious. That's why like some of these things aren't necessarily easy to commercialize, right? Because they're the cultivars aren't as locked in. We have uh so we start did you eat mulberries when you ate with us in the summertime?
It's possible. Was one of you deserts some mulberries? It's possible. Because we have so on the Islander Born Home, which is part of Denmark, but it's on the other on the other side of Sweden. There's a woman who has a mulberry tree that's I like a hundred years old.
So it's an old tree. And at one point in his life it was hit by lightning and it fell over and started growing sideways. So if you don't have to climb up as high to get the fruit. And we have this woman on a retainer. But every year we pay her a certain amount of money for the rights to her tree because the fact that it grows sideways makes it so easy for us to pick a large amount of berries.
And they're very high quality mulberries. Yeah. I mean, like, I love a high quality. They're also so fragile. What a heartache they are.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, you come back covered in purple grease. Yeah, but now that you say growing sideways, I have the old Paul Wall saw song, Sitting Sideways going through my head. And now I'm imagining Paul Wall like sipping on lean and picking mulberries off of your tree in Bornholm.
You know what I mean? That's a good tune. And a classic album cover because it's just his giant grill. You know what I mean? Paul Wall.
Yeah. Paul Wow baby. Anyway, uh apparently he's a nice fellow. I hear he's not a bad guy. All right.
Good gang. Uh what? He's a good hang? I think, yeah, but that's what I mean. I've never met him.
But you know, I hear he's like a decent, I hear he's a decent dude. You know what I mean? As far as like, you know, uh that era of rapper goes. Um, so I realized that I didn't I gave part of my recipe for T2. I just did T2, by the way, which is Thanksgiving 2, Kevin.
And so uh my my week in review was basically that, right? So Dax comes home from from Denmark. I actually made the Danish thing two weeks ago because I knew I was gonna do T2, but I wanted to use the cat scratch fever machine that you bought me before I spoke to you. So I did the Danish Christmas sandwiches two weeks ago and last week I did T2. So here's because people for some reason constantly ask me about the turkey technology.
Here's my current, my current turkey technology. First of all, I cut the hell out of my thumb. Let me tell you something, people. Nothing is worse than boning frozen birds. You know what I'm saying?
I took this sucker out of the freezer, right? First of all, if you're gonna buy a turkey in the United States of America, in New York City at least, buy it before Thanksgiving because here's what happens. All of the quote unquote fresh, which I don't know if they actually are fresh, they're probably actually were thawed at some point. All the ones at the supermarket has left, the crappy supermarkets anyway, they throw all of them into the freezer. And you can see because they're in the freezer with the word fresh on them.
So you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You took this bird and you threw it in your garbage can freezer. It took forever to freeze. So I know that when it thaws out, it's gonna be nothing but a drip testrophe and it's gonna suck, right? Because I want i if I'm I don't mind a frozen bird, but I want it frozen properly from you know, from the processor, right?
I mean, I don't know whether you guys agree, but uh that's my belief. So, and it's so it was hard. So I I ended up buying my turkey because turkeys in the United States are free around Thanksgiving because they that's the lost leader. So you can go into a Target or a Letl or a Trader Joe's or whatever, and they they they charge you probably less than they're paying for the turkey so that you buy all the other crap that goes with it. So anyway, so I grabbed a spare turkey before Thanksgiving and threw it in my freezer.
I put it in my fridge to thaw a full six days before I needed to use it, and it was still freaking frozen on the inside. And you know, chunks of ice because that's how they jacked up, that's how they jacked the right. They they inject it with stuff and then the ice precipitates out into the body cavity. So you always have this ice in the body cavity. Still frozen.
And so it is so hard, especially the older I get, the less dexterity I have in my hands when they're frozen, right? And so you can't really feel what's happening. So you're constantly having to look down and see what happens. And it's so easy in that situation when you're that cold to slip and hit yourself. So I did.
And so then I had to, and then the only glove I had in the house, because they all got taken, right, had been exposed to ozone because I have an ozone generator in my in my uh what's it called? Closet to like, you know, take the stink out of shoes. And so the minute I put it on, it completely shredded as I put it on my hand. So I had just this little finger cot so I could finish the rest of my cooking. But anyway, I eventually boned it out.
I completely boned it because I didn't really care because this wasn't Thanksgiving one, that it looked 100% turkey like. So I actually took all of the leg bones out as well, right? And then I used those to make the, you know, you roasted that, you roast that with uh celery onion and carrot, a lot of onion because you're gonna pressure cook it. And then I reinforced a store-bought chicken stock, because whatever, you know what I mean? Whatever.
So then I pressure cooked that stock, cooled it, took the oil and and some of the all the oil and some of the stock off. Then I pre-salted the turkey. You can do this in one day. Pre-salted the turkey and sugared it on the on the bottom. Uh, and then I laid it out to flat to dry for like two hours, and then injected the breast meat with some of the stock mixed with salt and sugar.
Then I made my stuffing plug, heated that in the ANOVA, covered in plastic wrap at 100% uh humidity and like 185 degrees Fahrenheit until the thing was hot all the way through. Then draped the turkey over that that I had injected into the breast meat only, roasted it off, sears all the Sears all one corner that was getting too blonde because it didn't get enough radiation. And everyone said it was the best one I had made so far. Uh all right. So that was my that was my T2.
Uh I also made, you know, I make these richarelli cookies, but I make them with pecans now. It's an almond cookie made with uh it's an almond cookie made with uh what's it called? Uh eggs, right? And some people put flour, cornstarch in, but I don't. It's just I just eggs and nuts and and sugar.
And this year I made them also with pistachios and cashews, and people enjoyed the pistachio and cashew ones as well. So cashews are a little wetter. Anyway, so Kevin, what do you got in the next minute and 15 seconds that you want to say about uh either what you've cooked this last week or stuff that you have uh going on for the Noma? Um I mean, let's well we're talking about Thanksgiving and then the turkey that you you just did. Like I I also use your your mom stuffing recipe as well.
I I cooked the turkey for Thanksgiving in America for the Noma team. And uh it's every chef I've met since that day has commented on the turkey because when they took uh a video of me talking about it and how I I used the mayonnaise based for the outside of the turkey. So a lot of people are like, oh yeah, you baked the turkey for the Delma team. Get the mayonnaise based and it's become a weird calling card where people have never met before comment on it because it's obviously a grill would go viral on on social media. So give me give me your mayonnaise-based spec.
Give me the mayonnaise-based spec. And m my mom thanks you for your support. Yeah, I mean, you gotta trademark the rest of it because I think a lot of people are gonna be using it this holiday season. But uh so the um underneath the skin of the turkey, I do like a compound butter, some basically, you know, lemon zest, uh parsley, garlic, and then whatever leftover compound butter I mix with mayonnaise, and then that becomes the uh the outer layer on top of the skin. Huh?
And then I find the mayonnaise kind of keeps everything emulsified for a bit longer than if it was just butter, so it stays and it browns really nicely gets super crispy. Love that. Send me send me a picture. I'd love to love to see it and check it out. And Kevin, uh a pleasure as always, and hopefully we will see you when Noma starts its McGillakudi out there in Los Angeles at the unnamed spring date, but uh appreciate it.
And this will be the last cooking issues of the year. Yeah. Kevin, you're rounding out the whole year. Uh we'll see you folks in 2026 cooking issues.
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