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Stock up at Whole Foods Market. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stance Studios, joined as usual with John. How you doing, man? Doing great, thanks.
Yeah? Yeah. So John, you know, brought me my Belgian mustard last week. So we've been Belgian mustard mustarding it up. Just mustard mustard.
Yeah. Not the not the uh what's his name? Kendrick Lamar style mustard, like Belgian mustard. Yes. Yeah.
Yes. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Hey, hey, welcome to the show. Ah, who do we got on the who do we got on the line?
I forgot to ask before we started. We have Quinn and we have Mr. Molecule. Ooh, all right. So starting down low in the Los Angeles area, we have Jack Insley, Jackie Molecules.
How you doing? Good. How'd you know alive? Uh and then in the uh upper left, like just cracked off of our coast on Vancouver Island. We have Quinn.
How you doing? Well, cracked off the Canadian coast. Not your coast. Hey, man. Aren't you one of these?
It's all America people. It's all freaking America, dude. I think, you know, somebody ruins that, you know what I mean? Hey, man. Not a political show, brah, but I do know what you mean.
Uh and uh, and then special guest uh in the show tonight, a for l well, I'm not a former contra person, I'm a current contra person, but former contra person and for the past, I don't know, like two and a half years, uh restaurant, which I'm gonna mispronounce and he'll pronounce for me correctly. Just kidding, people because no one else hears from the Lower East Side. Uh Fidel Caballero, how you doing? Hey, pretty good. Thank you so much for having me.
I so pr correctly pronounced the restaurant anyway. You did. All right. Did I got it right? Yeah, you got it right.
Son of a God. All right. So uh before before we get started, if you so the restaurant i it's w normally we don't talk about the restaurant first, but in case someone's listening is gonna call in a question. The restaurant, if you haven't been, it's like uh not how you would necessarily I want to describe the restaurant real quick. It's not how you would think of it.
I went there and it's like it's not like uh infli I wouldn't call it like inflected Mexican, like the way that let's say um uh it's not, you know, yeah, that's kind of his own like it's got its own vibe. Yeah, exactly. So yesterday, not yesterday, last week everyone was insulting on New America. Everyone was ranking on New American, everyone. Yeah, fair.
I was the only one taking up the mantle of New American because I come from a time when American food was seen as being garbage. Right. Now there is like this new thing of uh of like internationally inflected local from w wherever you are, right? But I don't think this really fits that bill. It's its own kind of McGill.
Do you agree with me or disagree? I agree. Yeah. Yeah. But but the like s some of your culinary roots are northern Mexico, so hopefully we get into that.
Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of like uh Kodima has his own little vibe, you know. And it has its own um kind of identity. Uh it is Mexican food, but I think it's uh Mexican food through like I guess our lens and what we think it could be and what we're trying to do with it. You know, I feel like Mexican food is just a stereotype of being, you know, something, you know.
We recently just put a taco on the menu because everybody was like, well, where's the taco? I know because people people, man, people. You can't like you can't you're like you can't crush them up into tiny cubes and then stack them on a shelf. You're not allowed to do that to people. Yeah, exactly.
You know what I mean? Uh but anyway, so I just say that uh before we normally do. So if people have questions, they can call in their questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. If you happen to be listening live on Patreon.
And John, why don't you uh why don't you tell them why they might want to be listening live on Patreon? Well, if you go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues, you can find out why. But we got a couple different membership levels available for everyone there. At all membership levels, you get access to our Discord where you get uh to talk with other fans of the show and guests, you know, who have become members and things like that. It's a great place for uh shooting the crap with uh with all your ideas.
Um there's also discounts with people we work with, uh prioritize questions getting answered, and a whole bunch of other great things. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, if you're uh if you're a cocktail person, you have access to all of my data. That's right.
If you want my data, you have access to it, it's right there. Uh actually, don't tell the people because they don't look at it at you know, at Contra, but I think like a vast majority of our recipes are in there. Yeah. Cause like maybe I gotta look. I gotta why not.
Because it's just my data. I'm giving people like pre-access to my data before I, you know, make it so that you know anyone can look at it. So you can look at it. Anyway. So uh now back, this is the portion of the show where we just shoot the breeze.
Cool, let's do it. For you know what happened in the past week or so. Let's start with the away uh away team. Uh uh Jack, what do you got for me? What it what what's what's new in the world of uh just getting over a stomach ulcer.
Well, um I've decided this week to uh finally get over my worst addiction, which is buying coffee like outside in the world all the time. Because it's expensive, man. Um Yeah, actually a chat I have with Polski after your pop-up. We we we were chatting and and we were talking about like what's your worst sort of food habit and most expensive one. And mine's like the daily cold brew at my spot like right here.
So today, finally my uh Encore coffee grinder will arrive and I'll move into the world of cold brew at home. Encore. Who's who makes Encore? Barata. Oh, I have a Barza, but I don't know remember which one.
It's good. Like, especially I think for the price point and the fact that they're uh good people and they'll answer your question. I think they do a good job for for their price point. You know what I'm saying? I have one.
Yeah. I modified mine. Yeah. I forget I I have one of the sete line because I do uh espresso sci I have one of the sete, right? That's one of their lines.
And uh I modified it because uh I don't trust uh I don't trust the the the scales or any I don't trust any of that stuff. So I just modified it to be a single because it's a very low retention grinder, so I modified it to be uh yeah, I just weigh my beans and then dump them in and do the single shot, but that's what I do too. Yeah. Yeah, that's like my favorite. Right.
So like, but I had to make a a tall so I I modified the input thing so that there'd be less bouncing. Oh, wow, okay. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. Because no one likes bouncing.
Nobody likes it. But when you when you eat with your beans, are you like um the I made the the throat a little bit narrow for larger beans? Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course.
But you know what I like about that grinder is that unlike other grinders, I'm not gonna rank on them, but in that price point, like it never chokes even on a light roast. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. I've had grinders, won't mention them because that's rude, where like you put a light roast in and it engages the clutch, it thinks it's hit of stone, and then it's just like kick kick kick kick. Oh wow, okay.
Hate. Yeah, I'm sure. Nobody likes that. Yeah. For those of you that don't know, when you're cleaning a grinder, if you're a flour person, you clean your your your mills with rice, regular white rice.
But if you put regular white rice into a consumer grinder, it can be a little hard sometimes and can choke it up. So use minute rice. Just a little tip. Oh, wow. If you don't want to buy the fancy, basically pellets for cleaning your grinder, minute rice.
We also clean our mocajete with it. Yeah? With rice, yeah. And metates. Like the things that we we grind by hand uh at the restaurant, and we clean it with rice.
Really? Mm-hmm. Huh. With rice, and then we do and then we do garlic and like like very huge sea salt, and we grind that. First we do rice and then we do garlic and sea salt.
And then we just rinse it. Yeah, I uh I usually just like allow like mainly I'm always grinding, I don't do anything. I mainly grind cumin garlic and uh and pepper in it. And so I just kind of l rinse it and leave it. Yeah.
Yeah, of course. Now we do like sauces and stuff, and sometimes we even like do like animal fat on the like on our salsas and stuff. So on on a scale from this thing looks like it just flew out of a volcano to smooth, how do you like your mocohetes and your metates? I love them. But like how how porous is yours?
Oh, mine, I like them porous. I like them porous, but I think you need to work them enough. You know, I feel like the porous ones hold a little bit better. Right. And kind of, you know, has that like little, it's kind of like a medium pore.
So you know, because um I I've seen some that like half of your salticides inside of your giant, giant holes and stuff. Yeah. Mine and the and this and the the ones that are a little smoother, it takes way longer to get stuff done. Yeah. You know, I feel like the kind of like the the Thai ones are a little harder to get stuff done, you know.
Yeah. I use those for like dry spices. Right. Those are easier. Yeah.
You don't want to like the dry spices, if it's too porous, it's just toast it's because it's all gets jammed into the thing. That sucks. Mine, uh, I think mine would be not porous enough for you, probably, but it's like 30 years old now at this point. So it's like awesome. You know?
Yeah, I'm sure it's like back then in New York City. In, you know, the only ones you could get were the ones with the pig face on them. You know what I mean? Of course I do. I was like, do you at least have one that's not painted?
I like I I'll take the pig face, but uh, can you just do it with without the paint? Okay, at least just put lipstick on it. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I have. But back then, um, you could only buy stunt matates.
You couldn't buy a real matate. Can you buy a real one now? I think so. I mean, I bought mine in, you know, in the in a small village in in Mexico. Uh, of course you did.
Yeah. But like back back here in New York, you could only get them basically the size of an eight and a half by eleven sheet of paper. What the hell are you gonna grind on it? Yeah, that's that's this decoration and then find out. And then when it comes, it's not like it's not not like the mono.
So, like, for those of you who don't know what the hell we're talking about, imagine that uh instead of grinding in a circular motion, you're grinding in a back and forth motion with what looks like a stone rolling pin, but it's not. But it look but they're kind of squared off, but it you know, you hold it in your hand. So that's the mono. And the matate is the grinding surface. So, but they also they weren't matched.
So you know what I mean? Like it like I needed like, you know, 30 years of someone every day using it, but why would this someone use this eight and a half by eleven sheet of paper? It's it's yeah. That's just decoration at this point. Yeah.
Yeah. And I don't want a decoration metallic. Nobody does. I don't need decoration in my house. I mean, like, oh, symbol of grinding.
I feel like sometimes like when they walk into the restaurant as well, they think it's decoration. I'm like, no, dude. You know, like we actually like use it, you know. People are like, no, you RoboCoup this stuff. I'm like, no, Matthew, tell that to the chefs, you know.
Cause like uh you know what the I uh the hardest part for me to learn on that, and that's why I stopped and gave it to someone, is uh is like the movement of the paste management. If the thing is so small, you can't there's no I have no actual grinding zone because you have the upper zone, the lower zone, and how do you can't there's no like pushing. Yeah, it's a it's a wrist thing. Yeah, yeah. But like you I couldn't keep it all on the No, I get it.
I get it. I think it's also like consistency. I feel like that's where there's both, right? You know, the other one's it's a bowl. It's uh it's for like wetter stuff, and the other one's more for like pastes, you know, and and you know, we're you know, we're also like big like grinding geeks there.
We do we go from like child like like chocolate refined, like you know, like we use all types of like you know, grinding we grind a lot, you know. We grind our uh Swinarinewai wheat, you know. Oh yeah, we'll talk about wheat because we have some questions. Well, I know about so do do you do your uh matate work on the ground? We do it, no, just it's a tabletop.
Like we put a wet towel underneath and we we do have a what's in the middle of our kitchen. It's a like a it's uh it's a bowling alley. Like our pass is a huge, super thick, like like a wood. So it's like very nice to do all this type of stuff. Right.
But do you need to be physically stronger if you can't ban if you can't get your body over? I think so. Yeah, I think you need to kinda yeah, if you don't you can't be underneath and do that. You know, it is yeah, it is a little a little easier to we do we we we do raspadas, which is a typical, like a you know, sometimes like corn tortillas get a little too thick for like a tostada and like it kinda hurts, you know. So these are these things are called raspadas, which is means just like scraped.
So what you do, you make a fresh sortilla, you put it on a metate, and then you scrape it, and you only get like a very thin layer of a tortilla, like extremely thin layer. You can dehydrate that and that's like the best like vessel. You don't even feel them. Yeah, you should look up into them. It's very fun because you make your tortillas and then like right now we're making like a seaweed tortilla.
We make it and then we put it in the metate when it's hot, like r fresh out of the gumal and put it, and then we just scrape it. How how much comes off of it? Half of it. Yeah. So you have like a very thin tortilla.
And it's like you but then we we kiss them on the grill to get kind of marks, and then we dehydrate 'em, and it's like you bite into it, and it's like it shatters. It's so beautiful. So like so on the scale of like a papa d'am texture? Kinda. Yeah, it kind of has that like papa down texture.
There you go. All right. Sweet. Uh Jack, we cut you off. What was it that you were uh you were saying it's not the end of it?
That's pretty much it, man. No, no, you need to say it. You I like I literally cut you off before you said anything. I'm pretty sure. I have to go back in my memory.
No, that's pretty much it, man. I'm just I'm just excited to finally not spend six dollars a day on my cold crew. That's it. Well, yeah, yeah, you know, like here's the other thing I don't understand about coffee. People I'm sure you're not this person begrudging them their money.
'Cause it's not like anyone working there is like making fat bank either. So like that's the thing about that. I think people don't understand. They're like, Oh yeah, the my this coffee costs me a lot to go to this, you know, c you know, fancy coffee place and get it, but no one's getting rich there anymore, I don't think. Like oh no.
You know what I mean? The price doesn't bother me. It's the uh it's it's the everyday of it for me. Yeah. Like that it's just unsustainable.
I think the problem is, and we've had people on the Discord talking about this too. It's like the just the price of what used to be kind of like an okay everyday luxury is getting onerous, which is a shame. Especially for our industry. Our industry depends on people wanting to have these small luxuries in their life. You know what I mean?
Yeah, of course. Anyway. Uh Quinn, what do you got for me, man? Uh let's see. I had a uh experimental bread success this time.
Okay. After a few failures. So the tomato tomato water bread worked. Uh this was with some techniques from Chocopine. So it's lightly enriched.
And then, you know, uh some of the you know, starch uh pre hydrated, pre gelatinized. I ended up using Durham in the sort of Tang Zong, you know, component. Why then a little bit of uh why because it's canadian. I I I think well I I have local Durham. So I'm j I I'm not I'm not trying to be a jerk.
I'm just wondering why Durham of you know, of the of the wheats, you know, why why go so flinty? Yeah, I think I think for s for a time for whatever reason, you know, obviously like just a cooked starch in water has a certain flavor to it. And I think the hydrated durum tastes better relative to like the white flour at least. Yeah, it's been so long since I've cooked with white flour. I gotta start cooking with white flour again just so that I have a reference for people when they ask things.
You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. Uh but then too there was there was it was old Durham, then the Tang Zong, and then a little bit of fresh um kamut as a portion of the rest of the flour. Is that how you're supposed to pronounce it? You put the put the put the accent on the moon.
That's how I pronounce it. Kamut. It sounds like like someone in the second camp. But like, you know, I'm like a northern weasel. Go get you kamut.
That's what it sounds like you're saying, but now that's the way now I hear it in my head that way. And by the way, I know you didn't say this, but it sounded like you were following a recipe from Shaka Khan. What do you actually say? Uh which part? I don't know.
When you started, you said I followed a recipe from Shaka Khan, and then in my head, all I could hear is Shaka Khan. Shaka Khan. Uh I was using some techniques from Shokupong. Oh, uh, oh, oh. I see, I see.
Ha however, I have to say that while I love that style, like hot hydrated starch has been around since infinity in every culture that has starch. Sure. Right. For instance, uh I look there's a weird thing. We're gonna talk about flour tortillas in depth later, right?
But like most of the recipes that you see from the Americas with the flour tortillas, they use hot water, not hot enough to hydrate, so I don't really know why they do, but they do. I don't know whether it's to melt a lard, I don't know what. But you use boiling water. Yeah, we use boiling water. That's different though.
Yeah. Right? That's more because you also are bringing some stuff from China. You said in an interview, but you're gonna correct me later. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's talk all about it. But but like everyone, everyone heats when they need their starch to hold more water beforehand, right? Yeah. But yet, you know, the milkbread people get all the credit. It doesn't make sense to me.
But maybe maybe it's like the Arnold Palmer thing situation where it's like obviously Arnold Palmer did not invent iced tea and lemonade. That's stupid. But you know, we drink it because it was associated with him and was easy to order, and everyone could remember the name of it. So deserves credit. Of course.
For that reason. I think I knew about the drink before even before I knew it was, you know, yeah. Well, that's you know, like, you know, then eventually no one's gonna know who Arnold Palmer is anymore, the same way that uh, you know, I said on the air before someone came into my bar, ordered a Burt Reynolds shot. I told them no. And then uh I said, uh, we don't have that kind of schnapps here.
And I was like, furthermore, like what do you even know about Burt Reynolds? And they said, Who's Burt Reynolds? I was like, leave. Get out. Out You know what I mean?
I wish that I had it in me. I wish I had it in me to be that guy who occasionally would be like, ouch! You know, you know what I mean? But like but unless you do something bad, like touch one of the staff, I'm not gonna kick you out. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Of course. But that's a bar. Yeah. Secretly judging you.
I mean, that's kind of our job, right? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Same way you do with house guests.
You judge your house guests. You do. Always. I feel like it's the third day, right? At the third day, you're like, you start.
But I mean, even just for dinner when they come over. You're like, you know, what they bring. Oh. You know what I mean? Wow, that's pretty intense, but it's kind of right.
You know, just being honest here. Yeah, I'm not gonna like, I'm not like saying that like forever you're poisoned by the first time you come over, but like, you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. It's like I remember, uh, whatever. Like, sometimes people surprise you.
So, like years ago, I didn't know, I didn't I didn't know him, but my my sister-in-law, Miley, knew him, Bobby Flav, because she'd been working with some stuff. So he comes over to our loft. I was not in the food world, right? So he comes over to our loft, it's in the 90s, and uh he brings biscuits from Mesa, and you know, it's fine. What's nice?
Hey, bring Bobby Flay, bring biscuits, eight. And so you get, you know, we do the whole thing. I do the fried chicken, all the stuff, blah, blah, blah, with my big commercial deep fryer. Uh and next day he sends us a bottle of uh Pappy Van Winkle. Now, this was before this is tw the the whatever the 20 whatever year expression, not 23, the younger.
And uh I was like, class act, because no one knew what uh Pappy Van Winkle was at that time. But you know, that's when I started buying the younger one, the 13 or 15 year, whatever it is now, that was only $30 a bottle back then. You believe that? No. Believe that?
Yeah. We used to take things like uh Yamazaki and Habiki and mix with them into old fashions. You're no. Yeah, yeah. Because these things these things are these things are good.
Crazy. But they they are not, they're not an ingredient. Knowing what ingredient is actually just so precious from a taste perspective that you couldn't do whatever you wanted with it if it was cheap. The mustard for me. Right.
But you but you that's precious because I can't even just get it. It's not the cost, even. It's not cheap, but it's not like I just can't physically go get it. But like what ingredient is there that regardless of what it cost, if it was free, you would you would like treat it with like there are cheeses that I can get once a year or tomatoes I get once a year. They're still affordable, but some of these things are just expensive.
Liquors, right? They're good. They're not worth thousands of dollars. And so like if they're not thousands of dollars, there's no reason to treat it like it costs thousands of dollars because they're good, but they're also good when you use them for other things. You know what I'm saying?
Of course. Although I did do some horrible things to Yamazaki and Habiki back in the day because it just was basically free. They had no meaning. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Uh anyway. Uh what else you got for me, Quinn? Wait, so you didn't really describe I I still don't have a conception because I was too busy thinking about the wheats that went in of what this so you do you boil the tomato water or you boiled regular water. Uh there was both. Yeah, the tomato water was in the hydrated search, and the remaining liquid for the dough was also tomato water.
So the only other exterior moisture was whatever water was in the uh in the starter. Right. And it was also did you have to did you have to uh adjust the pH at all? No, I thought I said just go with it. I researched what the pH, you know, generally is.
Yeah. And it seems like it was within tolerance. You uh you uh you hate you hate doing one variable at a time don't you just hate it. You can't do it. You hate it.
What's really a new recipe. Okay. Um it was good. Yeah I mean obviously it's not like in your face with like tomato flavor but there's a nice like savoriness that's different from like the lactic acid of the of the uh sourdoughness and we made uh really good tomato soup and grilled cheese with the bread so tomato and tomato yeah tomato and tomato tomato and tomato uh one thing I want people to be careful of when they're using pre-gelatinized starches for viscosity is that depending on which ones you use and what the amylase activity of your particular flour is your gluten whatever residual gluten you have still has to be strong enough to hold the structure as the starch starts to thin out before it actually sets so if you think about the rye bread problem where like the pentazans and stuff in rye are holding the structure which is what's happening in like a hydrated in a hydrated a pre you know like a prehydrated heated uh starch matrix you have cold holding ability because it's pre-gelatinized, right? And then so you're holding a lot of extra water bound into it, a lot of extra water.
But uh in rye, for instance, like the enzymes like functionalize like at a temperature when the bread is baking, and that's why if your rye is not sour enough, collapses down to nothing, right? Because that starch structure that's holding it together, or pentazans, in the case of in the case of rye, it's pentacans, it's not hydrated starch, but that structure collapses before whatever proteins it can gel or hold and whatever like starch structure can set itself up. So, you know, just you know, prehydrated starch is m doesn't solve all of your problems all of the time if you don't have enough other structure. In my experience, could be wrong. Someone from the Discord can ring in and be like, you're wrong.
But whatever, then good. I've learned something. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. Uh all right, anything other than the bread, my my ma'am?
Oh, we we I did do one, and this is a a isolated variable with the tomato soup, um, based on another video from Darcy. He had covered glycine, uh, which is a separate amino acid as a flavor enhancer for beverages, and I've done some experiments with it. So I tested the tomato soup with um glycine, obviously plain. I also had some pure uh LC around, which is a amino acid, probably most commonly encountered from green tea, and now I did a combination of both. So I did a trial of all those uh iterations.
But now you're now you're making me ask you, because now I need to know what's the base of the tomato soup. But how do you how do you make tomato soup? I well, this time it was onions. Um I did some summer squash, because we had a bunch around. I sweat that down for like an hour.
I'm giving you side eye on the squash all the way from New York City. But go ahead. It was good. Oh, okay. They were nice uh patty pan squashes.
It wasn't much. All right. Patty pans are a fun name. They are. It is a fun thing to say.
I used to call uh Chef Telepan Mr. Patty Pan because he had a lot of patty pan squash. So like I and I like him, so I have fond memories. The word patty pan. Go ahead.
Cool looking too, little weirdos. Yeah. Alien squash for a while, and then peeled uh fresh tomatoes, because we have them in season now, and then you can't just say tomato, dude. What kind of tomato? 20 minutes.
Uh there were a few a mix of like brandy wine, one other heirloom, and then we had some San Marzano variety tomatoes. So sort of the skin skinny Roma looking tomatoes. I exclusively used tomato juice from Campbell's in the jug and canned tomatoes from my tomato soup. They are always the same. Exactly the same.
Exactly the same. And peeled. And because you know what I don't like doing, Quinn? Straining it. Peeling, straining like a Posato style stuff.
Oh my God, what a nightmare. Yeah. So, like, so I'd use mainly juice, which is frankly great. And then not bitter at all. You ever clarify homemade tomato juice versus with where you like blend with the skins versus clarify like not the Sacramento one in the can, no offense to the Sacramento people, but the can does, I think to make it taste it different from the jug.
The jug is just so much less bitter. Really? Oh yeah. And if you ever really, if you taste then the puck that comes out, the puck that comes out of like uh tomato juice, which is basically pasata that's you know a little thinner, right? It tastes like tomato paste.
And this stuff that comes out of the one where you just blend up tomatoes and spin it tastes like filth. You know what I mean? Because it's it's flavorless seeds. Now, yes, I know the stuff around the seeds has a lot of umami. The seeds themselves, without use.
And the skins are bitter, especially like the better the tomatoes, the smaller ones here, not during season, Quinn. Don't but like not during season, the the Kamparis, the small cherries, those things have a very high skin to flesh ratio. So they actually, their juice is more bitter. But anyway, uh, but you were using I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, but I'm just saying what I use. All right, so go ahead.
So you have your tomatoes, your patty pan, no beef. No beef stock? Any stock at all? Beef. All right, again, they don't pay a damn thing.
But I use better than bouillon, no beef on my tomato because I've served a lot of vegetarians, and that stuff's surprisingly good. They're they're fake. I don't think I've ever used it. Yeah, they're fake beef. Fake beef is good.
Their fake beef is good. And you know what else I did? John told me to. I got their lobster stuff and I used it to uh reinforce a clam sauce I was making for pasta. You know what it was?
Good. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. They have good products.
I cook for a lot of vegetarians, but I am not. And so I'm not, I'm not gonna try to. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. You'd rather eat vegetarian probably, you know.
Yeah, I mean it's easier. Yeah, you know what I mean? All right, so wait, so you said no beef, no stock. No stock, just the tomatoes. Again, I have the uh Cherry nucleotides, which is the uh what is it, uh 30 minutes, guanulate, a little bit of that in the base, a little bit of yeah, a little bit of glutamate, and then uh simmer it with a little bundle of thyme, and then once that's simmered, carry it to hell, and then a little bit of cream.
Yeah, cream. All right, so we agree on the cream. No sherry? Well, it's tomato soup. So yes.
I almost did some shall she, but no. You don't like sherry in your tomato soup? Shao Shing. That's the most. I don't think I've ever had it.
Yeah, dude. Harvey's Bristol Cream. Yeah, man. Harvey's bristle cream, as a child of the 70s, man. Harvey's Bristol Cream.
Uh so for just so you want to know, if you want to know how I make uh tomato soup, just make a French onion soup, but instead of cheese and bread, put in tomatoes, cream, and sherry. It's like beef and onion, then tomatoes and cream. That because that's what I like. But you don't have to like the same thing. So what one?
You never told us what one. I'm guessing because you didn't have beef, that's the added stuff one. Yeah, yeah. Because the uh the good the glycine and and the L Thenine sort of rounded out the acidic notes, uh which was a little too much for me. But then when I combined both both of them together, I think the concentration dropped enough that the acid sort of came back up, and then uh it was still sort of enhanced relative to the control.
So I'd probably do like 0.1% each uh in the future for the glycine and the uh well, you'll let us you'll let us know. All right, now I have some questions, Fidel. First of all, so uh you're you like you hail from the kind of uh Juarez El Paso area. That's right. Yeah.
Yeah, I grew up in Chihuahua. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you a question that I have asked some Mexican people before, but they were more like Mexico City, and they were literally insulted that I asked them about it, but I think it's a delicious food. I want to talk about turkey butts. Oh, I mean, come on, man. So good.
Why are people like offended by this? I don't know, because I can't think he's very fancy Mexico City guy, and I'm like, turkey butts are delicious. He's like, no, no, this is poor people from like no, this is delicious. That's like the most popular torta where I'm from. Yeah, because it's so good, right?
Yeah, I mean, they do add, you know, like red 40, but you know, uh, when they confirm. Yeah. I don't know why. But those trays of those red turkey butts. Oh man, they're yeah, they're awesome.
Yeah, and like, you know, Vato kind of has that like sense of of that type of place, you know, because every time you go to a burrito joint, you find turkey butts like right next to it. Do you have turkey butts? We don't. Okay. It's so hard to get.
You know where I can get them? No, I was gonna ask you because like I call up literally the butchers start laughing at me. No, start laughing at me. I mean, the reason why we don't have them, like in any of our restaurants, is because we can't find them. Listen, somebody who's listening.
Please do, please help. Give us it. I've even tried. I've been like, yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever words. Yeah.
Get me the turkey butts. Yeah. But they either they go, they used to go a whole, there's a whole Polynesian, which I've never had Polynesian turkey butt. And then there's the Northern Mexican turkey butt. And it's so good.
We're doing squab butts right now. Squab butt? Yeah. It's a tiny butt. It's a tiny butt, but we do like kind of like a we do kind of like uh, what's it called?
Kind of like a pate off of them. We confirm. Yeah. Same way. We cure them, then we confirm.
And we chop them up, you know. Chop them up and we put them on a on a taco. Yeah, it's super good. Sounds delicious. Yeah, and then we do a bunch of herbs on top.
And then how many squabs have to die per taco? Oh, dude, a bunch. What we did is we serve squab, and then instead of using that for stuck, I was like, save them all, freeze them all. You know, like let's just save them, let's crowback them and put them away. World's most expensive taco.
Exactly, dude. I love it. But it's so cool. You know, we also did like there's a little hardened there, you know. There's a little like hearts and stuff.
They're grilled. Oh, yeah. So it's so good. And then we make kind of like a pace off of that, and then we put it on a there's have you ever heard asiento? Asiento is what like usually what like Oaxacans do with like when they build your like a taco or like a tlayula, they do like a smear of like well they do is they make when they make chicharron, all the things, the bits at the bottom of the of the pot, you know, whenever they're done making it, pull them out, and then they pure them with beans.
Oh man. They pure with like they kind of re-fried beans, you know, and that's what goes under the crispies. With the crispies. And that's what goes underneath. So we do that with a the with uh squat butts.
We make like a squat I guess squat butt asiento. Oh my god, that sounds so good. And that's like an herb taco. It has like all these bunch of different herbs that we get for the market. And then uh that's a real flex though.
Squaw butts, that's I think like sick, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like duck tongue, also a flex. Yeah, duck tongue. Duck tongue.
I'm like, 'cause it's so well, it's not that expensive because China's not market sell them, but like theoretically it's expensive. I know I agree. Because how many ducks? Of course. So many.
So many. Every every duck has only one tongue. Oh no. That's right. So it's hard.
But we decided to do that and it works very good. And then we serve the the leg like kind of like on a satellite. Yeah. Uh of the squab. And you get to make your little taco off.
Oh, I like the motion being made is put the thing in, rip the bone out. Yeah. We debone them, obviously. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool.
Yeah. It's pretty interactive. I'm glad that's not my job. It was the CDC's job. It wasn't mine, okay?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, Al Java was his idea. Yeah. Yeah, he was like, how about we debone them? I was like, fine.
So for those who like, because I they've only heard me, like this northern, you know, guy, like, tell people how to make it in case there's a turkey farmer out there, how do you do the turkey butts? We confirm. We can feel them in like uh just like lard. But we salt them. We look we salt them overnight, and then we uh and then we eat we cum f we we can feed this for you know a couple hours.
But for some reason they add coloring yeah like food coloring I don't hate it though because that's what like sausage is like it's like a I agree it's just it's just you know it's a thing it's a thing you know but it's not it's not a chiote it's like color yeah it's literally like drops of uh you know just like food coloring although if you wanted to you could probably I'm sure you can but I think I think it I think we have I tried it no I don't think I've tried it no but you would make it if someone could sell you the butts I will absolutely make it I will make a yeah I'll put it on the menu can anyone hear what I'm saying freaking will you get this guy some turn now I'm inter I'm not even interested about like who's who can get them I'm interested what Mexican got mad about this question I'm not gonna call them out but it's like but you know what I mean it was it wasn't it wasn't Fabian it wasn't anyone at Contra you know what I mean but uh yeah because I wanted to put them I wanted to see if I could put them on the opening menu at existing conditions. Okay. But not as Mexican style but just as like you know a food, a thing. You know what I mean? Like just uh But what are the chicken ones called or what's the nickname?
Oh yeah well in in my family like the non C I forget I don't know what the Catholic side calls it but the non Catholic side calls it a Pope's nose. Yeah yeah yeah but the Catholic side doesn't call it the Pope's nose. Actually they might my my stepfather is pretty that's like a new thing for me I didn't know they were even called that. Yeah you know until like recent years. Well like you know who like who Yeah yeah it's a weird it's a weird it's a weird one it's a weird one what does the Pope have to do with it it's like that that's that Tina Turner song.
What's the Pope got to do with it? Um anyway all right so I just wanted to I just wanted to ask that because like that that is a food that needs to travel. If we can get it, that'll be awesome. And it's weird because I even like I even asked my dad, I was like, dude, can you go and check out like all these El Paso like different you know, butcheries and stuff that they sell, man, that's where they get them. They're like, oh, we just get them for the butcher.
It's like, well, what butcher dude? Right. You know, so but it's hard, it's hard to get them. Because somewhere, like somewhere. You do get them in the States.
Yeah, well, tice, someone is taking and making ground turkey, they're making turkey breasts, they're making turkey legs, they're doing all this stuff, and the butts are all going somewhere. Just not to anywhere that we know can buy them. Yeah. They're not getting kung feed, that's for sure. No, which is what should happen.
Yeah, exactly. They shouldn't get turned into dog treats or whatever the hell happens to them, you know what I mean? And it kind of when you look at a torta that it has it kind of also looks like uh Al pastor. You know, like you can confuse them very easily. Like And for those of you that don't mind getting a little greasy, you can just pick it up and eat it too.
Oh yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But the sandwich is mom used to tell dad, stop eating that. It's too much fat.
You know, yeah, yeah. It's like leave me alone. Yeah, yeah. Leave me alone. Yeah.
Yeah. It's my thing. Yeah. Sunday. But uh, all right, so of the of the Mexican tortas, give me the give me the power ranking.
Because like the torta as a unit is very high up in the sandwich rankings. Oh, yeah. Like extremely high. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Like uh I I I like like a Milanesa torta. Really? You know, yeah, I like them. The bread at the bready cutlet? Yeah, but I like the beef.
Yeah. It needs to be beef, you know. Very thin. You have Cecina on the menu. What are your thoughts on this?
Not in a torta. I don't know. I like it. But you don't want you want something dry. You want something that not dry as you're making.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Cause sometimes I feel like the ones that are like the campechanas, the one that have like every single pork product in the world, and they just put it, top it off with a fried egg and then put it on. That's a little too much.
Too too much. Too much. Yeah. You need a fork and a knife. You shouldn't need a fork and a knife for this.
Do you make the uh do you make the the rolls at Vato at your bakery? The bolillos? Yeah. We used to. We used to, and then um I think uh we we started doing that, but we already make the tortillas there.
You know, we make like we actually have a machine and people started not buying. I think it was the cool part about it. We thought we were gonna be selling a lot of bolillos, you know, a lot of bolillos, and and and and um and it didn't happen. We were selling them, but we weren't like tortillas were just getting taken like off the shelves very quickly. So we decided to start, you know, kind of make, you know, kind of put more attention into the tortilla, the product that is selling the most.
Because we were selling I don't know, like 120 packs a day, you know, plus a hundred burritos. So on the flour. On the flour. What size? Uh we do nine inches.
Okay. It's not huge, you know. Yeah. And so these are uh so and now these are more traditional ones or your sourdough, not that they're not trapped in the colour. No, that one's more traditional.
Yeah, it's more true. Well, then again, we have two different types of tortillas. We have the Sonoran style tortilla, which is the one that we serve uh Corima, which is like the Soaquera. You heard of Soaqueras, have you? Nah.
So vaqueras are the weirdest like tortilla in the world. You should look into it. They're cooked in an upside down walk, and that's the way we cook it. That's the way you do, but so but that's actually from there. That's from there.
And people are like, oh my god, you're so inventive. I'm like, no, dude, like just go to northern Mexico. That's the reason why we opened this restaurant because everybody's just like everybody just talks about like center Mexico and like south. And everybody's like, well, how is awesome and Mexico City is beautiful. And it's like, well, you should go with the Amish people in northern Mexico.
People don't understand. We have like a bunch of Amish people. That's where like white Sonorian wheat, it's like, you know, that's how we grow it. Right, but they so but when you do it on the wok, it doesn't does it puff on the walk or no. It does.
Big time. But you're you but now in Mexico, are they using the boiling water like you're using? Yeah, that's the that's a little bit. It's hot water, it's not boiling water. Ours is like from boil into our mixer.
So what is the hot water in Mexico? What is the hot water doing? Is it just to melt the lard? I think it's only to m melt the lard. You know, and it's like, you know, it's one of those recipes that you ask why to every lady that I talked to, or not lady, every cook that I talked to, and they're like, well, that's just the way it is.
Yeah? Right. But that's when I was re- I was because I was re I was like watching videos, I was doing uh, you know, like hot water. Yes, hot water, but not hot enough to do like you know what Quinn was saying, the prehydration. It's just hot-ish.
You know, ours is boiling. That's hot, yeah. Yeah, and then we and then we as soon as we drop it in, starts gelatinizing, and then we like when then we rip it, we let it like we we turn on the speed on the sand mixer, and we beat it for like 15 minutes. And this is with white Sonorin. That's why it's uh it's a mix of white sonoran and bread flour and cake flour.
White Sonoran wheat is so good. So good. The smell, when you when you when you when water hits white Sonora and wheat, it smells almost like cereal like crazy that you're saying that because it is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I smelled it, you know. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, and it's uh it's good wheat. So I get mine from uh I get mine from a place called Ramona Farms. I get them from Ramona Farms too, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we get a lot of stuff from them too. Like their Pinola is very good. Oh, I haven't tried it. Yeah.
You know Pinole? Yeah, but I haven't tried. I've only because I once called them or not, call that emailed them. I was like, hey, listen, I buy your stuff, but I buy it through Breadtopia. Okay.
Right. And I was like, can I just order from you direct does that help you or not you know what I mean and they were like no because we have this relationship with Breadtopia it's actually more difficult for us to do like small retail stuff of course you know what I mean so of course but like yeah so you can get their product mainly their their wheat I I haven't ordered any of their other also wheat berries like we cook them for a very long periods of time. Yeah and they they're good you know we I haven't tried their Pima Club wheat they make a second wheat yeah I haven't tried it I have I think but it's been a while because I think while we were developing this thing we were look the thing is is that the white sonorin is like literally like handed from God to you to do this. Yeah like so you use it. You know what I mean?
Like and there dude also Ramona their wheat is so clean compared to other wheats it really is it's so clean. And we tried different ones and and that was Ramona was definitely the one oh yeah and it's like from Southwest and stuff it has like that story as well yeah yeah absolutely yeah for sure well they used to also sell uh Texas honey mesquite oh yeah yeah you I've never cooked with mesquite I just got some so I'll send you some oh nice nice all right so back to the back to the tortillas now uh are you will you tell people what kind of hydration how much fat you put in you use butter right we use butter yeah yeah we will you tell people kind of what your ratios or is that a trade secret? No it's not a trade secret but it has like it's not a lot of fat you know it's like eight percent fat yeah yeah it's kind of lean on the fat but we do brush them with with oil of course. Yeah, we brush them with oil wrap before we press. Because we press these.
Oh, before you press, do you do a brush out I I I take a uh what we do is we would when we portion like when we portion portion them too, we roll them with a bunch of oil, kind of like a roti. Yeah. You know, it kind of creates those they have a roti kind of similar look exactly. I think. Yeah, I I agree.
And uh and then when we when we make the dough, it's extreme it almost feels like sourdough starter. It's that wet. Oh yeah, and you do do sourdough on it. What does that do for you? It tastes.
It doesn't really because we we use it like five hours after it's made. Okay, okay. And it also kills the f the sourdough. If you think about the the you know, the the the boiling water, which is completely so it's basically just it's for sourness, yeah. I really like the acid on the tortillas.
Uh and now we add lactic acid to the ones at uh at vato. Right. It also helps with we didn't want no additives, we didn't want to do anything. We wanted this to be as stale as possible. It won't see and that's the reason why we we decided to do uh lactic acid on it.
Yeah. We do a very small percentage, but we do it's kind of like a safety net, you know, for it doesn't still as much, you know. Uh yeah, also super humid, you know, yada yada yeah. We want to keep this product as clean as possible. So when you oil it, you can just put it directly in a press shebang and do it.
We act that's the so aqueras. We used to make them by hand, and it was such a pain. We literally just had one of our our chefs just be stretching tortillas alaminut, because we cook all these elements. We used to like stretch them all, and it was so hard, and we ended up like it was a very expensive thing to have, you know. I mean, the nice thing about Sonor and White is it doesn't snap back as a butt.
So when we did you know, we kind of started R and D this this this new tort not new tortilla, we try to we we we we modified this this this your recipe. Exactly. Yeah. So what we did is that we found that um we used the same one on a press and it was extremely dry. It was almost like super stale and it just didn't feel right.
So we started, you know why do you think that that is? I don't know. I think because it didn't they because the amount of water. I can I know I do know. You had to lower the water to get it to stick in the stick in the press.
It was the other way. Uh I added the water, so whenever it was a hot press, it's a hot press. Uh-oh. So you'll press them very it's like super super hot press. Then you press them and it just kind of like gelatinizes it.
Oh, so it sets it and then you're just doing the puff on them. And then I do the puff. Huh. Yeah. We brush them with a little bit of fat and then we throw them in the uh and yeah, we used to brush them with chicken fat.
Like the first iteration of this tortilla was when I was a pop-up before we were uh a restaurant, it was it was chicken fat. And what we did is we we bought now. We still use this vinaigrette at the restaurant, but what we do is we we turn it into vinaigrette. But the chicken fat, we used to see season it with chicken bones. So what we did is like we'll grill the chicken bones.
Uh-huh. I love the the taste of grilled chicken, so I was like, how do you think this it's delicious, as well? Yeah, of course. The best thing, you know. So what we did, we grabbed the bones and we grilled the bones and then we comb feed them in uh chicken fat very slow.
And then we strained that, and that's what that fat we used some to make tortillas. All right. And it was super super good. But then we wanted to make it kind of like we wanted to make it like vegetarian. There you go.
We go back to what we're talking about, you know. Like, so I was like, I think like butter is just always gonna be, you know. It is. I mean, you're not hitting the vegans, but you're hitting most of the people, especially. And yeah, you know what?
I find that like if you can make something more inclusive, especially because I have to cook for vegetarians all the time. Yeah, of course. You know, I think it's important. Yeah, you know. You know?
So we did that. Um, and uh, yeah, it's been butter since. So, how do you get the puff on the upside down walk? It's just ripping hot. And it like goes.
Yeah, I guess, yeah. I saw your video, it kind of goes the same way. Sick. Oh, does it lift off the freaking wok? A little bit, yeah.
Aww. Yeah, and then but I mean, our so vaqueras, talking about so vaqueras, it's they're literally like a like a 22-inch pie. No, they're like huge. And these ladies make them by hand. You should watch a video.
It's like super super cool. And there's so vaqueras and they just stretch them almost like a pizza, and then they put them on top of a and put them on top of wok. And it puffs so quickly, and they flip them. Those burritos have to be, they have to be made differently too, because you have to fold the tortilla. They're so thin, the tortillas like paper thin.
You can see through them, and you uh you have to fold the tortilla in half in order for it to fill it because it's like it'll just like tear. But yeah, we we do it like interpretation of that, you know, at uh Corima and Avato is a Chihuahua installed tortilla. So by the way, you said burrito. Show me with your hands the size of an actual Juarez burrito. It's like this big.
Yeah. Now make the Californian burrito. I mean it's this big. It's ridiculous. I mean, I think burritos you should have two when you eat.
Yeah. You shouldn't have it for breakfast and for lunch. You know, like I don't think you should just eat half of it for lunch and the other half for dinner. That's that doesn't work. So someone who's from there when they see like like California style burritos are you uh I think I gived up.
I think I just said, you know what? They have their own burritos, you know, because I I mean they also put french fries in it. That's crazy. And carina asada. I like cara na sada.
I come from the north, but I don't think it should be with french fries instead of burrito with guacamole and like beans, rice, and Jesus Christ. It's the it's the whole thing. It's like instead of like anything that would be on the plate is now inside of the device. Exactly. Which I don't know.
I don't know. But we do steuse. We do very long periods of stews. We do pipion and like pork and pipion. You know, like green pipia.
Which is a great word, by the way. PPN? Yeah. It's awesome. It's a good word.
Uh we say I have another question for you. Oh, but okay, someone's trying to troll you. Just a Freud wants to know is guacamole a salad? Guacamole. Is it a salad or no?
I don't think so. No, because if if I asked for a salad and receive that, I would be I'll be very upset. Yeah, yeah. And if I asked for something that I could eat with chips and they handed me a salad, I would also be very upset. Is it is it weird that we make it at a mame guacamole?
No. I mean, like anything it's like if it's paste like it eats like it. Then yeah. And we season it like kind of just exactly like it. We do like we even do like cilantro juice in it.
You remember Stu Pac's pistachio one? Yeah, of course. I thought it was good too. Yeah. I don't I'm not traditionally serious.
I'm just saying that it doesn't serve the same function as a salad. Exactly. No, it doesn't. You know? It's like it's the same thing with uh hot dog.
Now also not a sandwich, it's not the same function. And you know, I don't know. No. I agree. It's also not a dressing either.
A what? Turkey butt update, of course, always. A turkey buttons. A butt update. According to according to uh banks in the Discord, apparently in the LA area, they are at every Mexican market, including whole.
I mean, same with El Paso. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but LA doesn't help us here in New York. I am I'm sure you could find a supplier. Good.
Nope. Yeah. No, uh, I also tried rattlesink. I've never seen that in the market. But no, but that's what I'm saying, Quinn is that like, first of all, like the the main like even someone who's gonna be Mexican here, I don't know anymore, but back in the day, it used to be people from Puebla, they're not gonna be bringing you turkey butts.
You there's you can't Yeah, it's hard. I've gone to the stores, you can't, it's just not here. You know what I mean? I'll give you an update. I'm gonna really now now that it's in our hit the butts.
Yeah, I'm gonna hit the butts. Yeah. More butts than the models. You gotta get that anyway. So like uh all right.
Uh let's see, see if I have any more questions specifically for you. Uh hey, have you ever used um have you ever used an ancarsum mixer before? Are you a mixer? Are you a mixer nerd? No.
Oh. But put me on. Well, no, the quick question in, but uh maybe we'll get to it, we'll get to it later. So like and s and cars from so I've had three main styles of mixer in my life. For the majority of my life, it's been the kitchen aid.
Yeah, of course. And I got real mad at Kitchen Aid for a while because one, whoosh, the flour shooting up out of the kitchen. Yeah, of course. You know, they've fixed that somewhat with their soft starts. Nobody wants to be like on and off, on and off.
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no. Hate, hate. Or like they're like, no, we make a little weird shield that you can put. No, no, nobody likes that either.
No. And then the second problem is that all like not the old ones, but like all of the larger capacity modern ones, there's way too much of a space between the the beater, if you're using the the for cake. Yeah. And and the bowl. So whenever or the or the balloon and the and the bowl.
So it gets a lot of so you have to pick up the bowl and jam it up into the into the thing while it's running, and then it's like and it's like and then and the other problem with the Kitchen Aid is it walks. You know, like when you're when you're doing like a hard to stiff dough, yeah. Yeah, you turn around with it. Yeah, it's like it's get walking across your counter and someone's like, you know, to hell with it. Yeah, of course.
So I moved to Bosch for a while, and then um, but I haven't I had a very old Bosch, like a third because I'm you know don't have the money. So I bought like a 25-year-old one. It's good machine. Uh and then I moved to recently the Swedish one, and carcerum, which is weird because it looks like Is this the one that is on your videos? Yeah, recently.
Any recent videos, yeah. I don't think so. I think I've seen it. And I was gonna add, yeah. Yeah, it's weird, and like it takes some getting used to.
So it's like this weird thing that looks like a citrus reamer on the side that does the mixing and then like a s a scraper here, and then the bowl rotates. Well, that's how we m make I don't even know that's where they're called, but but that's that's the machine that we use at Vato for our tortillas. But the bigger one. Yeah, the the bigger like divided. Yeah, so this one isn't like uh like a like a spiral or dividing arm.
But it kind of has the same like functionality. Yeah, so it it it's lower oxidation of the dough for a given level of development, theoretically. Okay. But um see what see what Lionel says here. Uh whenever I make dough, I will do an initial mix of flour use and water, I'll let it rest, add the remaining ingredients, salt, oil, blah, blah, blah.
And the incarcerum it it takes a lot of manual intervention on my part. That's true, you gotta move the thing around, but I don't really care. Because also you can stick your hand in, it's not gonna get ripped off. Yeah, of course. Um, the bowl moves, so it's so comfortable.
What? It's so comfortable because the bowl moves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh so uh one of the tricks with the incarcerum is is it it's better at it's better actually at putting dry stuff in than it is at putting wet stuff in. Okay.
So like I would rather overshoot the liquid and add more flour to an incarcerum than I would like the one thing I don't like doing with it, and I want someone to teach me how to do it better is like brioche style things because like you have to do your gluten your gluten development and then put the butter in it. And it's just like just gets wiped because it's not getting blasted the same way that like a kitchen aid or even a Bosch would do. Um but one of the problems if you're having a problem with salt, my key thing with salt, if you're if you because I do add salt to especially my sourdough, I add salt late so that it gets a head start. I let it sit for a while. Uh put the salt in a in a blender, like a neutral bullet.
And then it's like a a dust. And then I do. But if you have any more problems, Lionel, uh, let me let me know. Okay. So let's ask some questions.
Let's see here. Uh what is what is Vera Cruzan's what is Vera Cruz salsa? I think it's a salsa vera cruzana. It usually has like um like a bunch of, it's like an olive-based salsa. Huh.
Like green olives? Yeah, green olives. Huh. Yeah, it's super good. It usually served with fish.
Olives in what? Uh it usually has tomatoes. It's like tomato base, you know. It's like like uh it's cooked, so it's like kind of like a uh how can I explain it? It's almost like uh it feels kind of French, to be quite honest.
Like a tomato, you know, and it has a it sounds like a pasta grunes. What do you call me? I heard you. Anyway, but the uh but how about this though? What if it what if you could you put that on a sandwich almost like taking it in muffaletta direction?
Is it almost like a jardiniere or is it? No, it's a little more saucy than that. You know, but the one that we do, it is kind of that. There's a lot of stuff that we use at Korima to reference a point, you know. Yeah, okay.
And here like if we if I told my grandmother that I'm doing black garlic mole, I don't know how she will feel about that. She would not uh you don't think she would enjoy? No, absolutely not. It doesn't have any chocolate, it doesn't have any nuts. So it's a nut-free, chocolate-free mole.
Do you do you guys make do you guys make your own mole or no? What a pain. Yeah, of course. Oh my god, what a pain. Every day.
But not every day, every week. And we go through like 22 quarts of it. Really? Do you do you uh and also at Vato? Like the the the chicken and mole, there's nothing's bought.
Like we just buy two minutes. You got two minutes. Yeah, we just buy our, you know, our uh alt chiles. We toast chiles, we de seed chiles, we you know, everything. How often how often do you heat the chilies too much and they get bitter?
Yeah, it happens a lot. This is why I'm afraid of heating the chilies like everyone tells me to, because I could freak out. I'm gonna know I'm gonna I know I'm gonna saute everything and you you fry them? I uh at cook time, so I'll like take them and then I'll hit them a little bit. Yeah, but like I just like I hate so much when they go bitter when they were overtoasted and I don't trust myself.
Okay. I like frying. Yeah, frying. Frying the chillas is nice. Yeah.
Do you sell the paste at Vato or no? We don't. I think it's should we should do it. Imagine if you could be w the only place in New York where you had the table with the freaking pile of like paste. Dude, you're gonna see it next time you when you go to Vato, you're gonna see that.
Yeah. Well, I was saying also like uh because I like those. They put so much effort into it. Like we have, you know, on both places we do our mole. There's no like buying paste.
What are what are the hours on vato? Avato is from seven to three. We're about to go seven days, you know. You know, uh we're about to go seven days finally. We used to be only Thursday through Monday.
All right, and tell me how you make uh so I I'm gonna mispronounce it, but the uh dulce dulce to goat milk, cut the uh kaheta. How do you how do you like uh how do you make that out of Tokyo turnip? We uh we just literally put Tokyo turnips. I've I mean Greg Willow Wisp, my favorite turnip in probably the world. Uh he grows the best ones.
So what we do is we chop them up, you know, sometimes whole when they're a little smaller, and we cook them for three days in goat's milk. Yeah, okay. Oh, so it is in goat's milk. Yeah, yeah, it has good so, but it doesn't have any, it has any like sugar or any salt. It doesn't have anything.
We literally just cook this and blend it up. All right, I missed a question for you, and that would be uh unconscionable. Uh can you dive quickly into your grilled fish collar dish? Uh we marinated in chintex letare. Uh which, you know, chintex letare, and then we and then we brush them with a little bit of morita mayo and then we grill it.
You know, we marinated for about you know, like three days, you know, and then uh pull them out. Kind of like a yagator style, you know. And then uh do you have one of those corn grills, one of those the corn yakitori things? What do you grill it on? Yeah, yeah, we do.
Everyone uses it, everyone uses those things. Yeah. I kind of want to move away from those. Really? They break very easily.
But we use it a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we need to report warps the top ones. Yeah, yeah. And not just that, but also the bricks get like they just they don't used to make them like you know, they don't have to be a big thing.
You don't make them like they used to. You know. Hey, John, did I even get you today? Did you say a a dang thing about what you did this week? No, not really.
I'll say on going out, my one grape with cold brews is for coffees these days, is people pouring the milk at the bottom and then topping it off with the coffee. Jack was talking about cold brew earlier. Alright, give me the proper order since I'm not a cold bruget. No, I don't know. Just pour the coffee in and then the milk.
It's so hard to to mix it all through when they put it at the bottom. Is there ice in your cold brew? Yes. You know how I drink my coffee? Hot.
I know, I know. I know. Not your problem. I like them hot and short. All right, Fidel, thanks so much for coming on anytime.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I gotta stop by Vato, have some baked goods and maybe some maybe some paste. Maybe I'll buy some of your paste if you sell. Yeah, please. Yeah.
Also Tortillas. Oh, yeah, I forgot. Obviously, I'm gonna get tortillas, and we're not here next week, right, Joe? No, sir. Maybe the week after we'll figure it out.
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