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This is Dave Aron, your host of Kicking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stance Studios. Joined as usual, John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah. Yeah.
Got Joe Hazenrock in the panels. What's up, Joe? Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the show. Thanks, thanks.
We do not have Jackie Molecules because he has been disassembled and reassembled in Belgium, but I think he's gonna be back for the next program. We do have Quinn in the upper left. What's going on? Yeah, uh, not too much. Although uh my brother and mother did destroy the water main yesterday.
So we have no running water in the house. Sweet. Kicking it, kicking it 1880 style. I appreciate that. Uh question for you.
When you think about them, when you live that far north, not that you're that far north. When you live that far north, do you still think of a map where the North Pole is above you? Or have you flipped it around so that the majority of the world is above you? No, I mean I still think about like the classic uh what is it, the Mercadian projection, whatever most like the one we use. Elementary school map.
So you're using the same thing. All right, so so you you feel that you are yourself in the upper left corner, not in the lower right corner. Yeah, exactly. Okay, okay. Uh and I'm not sure.
We have like a 50% chance of Nastasia. She is somewhere in Tennessee. So if any of you fools are looking uh out the window in Tennessee and see Nastasia running around somewhere near Nashville, that is her. But I don't know if she's uh gonna make it to call in because she's wrangling uh bunches of uh cat-like humans. Anyway, uh so uh what do you guys got for the weekend review?
I guess I will go. Um, not food related, but food career related. I will no longer be going ahead with a deli. Um, while just while I've been working at Marquette, a another offer came along without me looking or anything like that, and it pays significantly more money. Like a like a lot more, like down payment on a house, new car kind of stuff.
You still get to do food. So get to do food. I'm gonna be working out of the Inc. 48 hotel, which is in like Midtown West, right off the like cruise ship, you know, terminal areas. The ink with a K or Inc with a C.
Um be running uh a wine bar downstairs, there's a cabaret section, which is apparently new, and then a rooftop bar which has really beautiful views. So if I go, you're gonna charge me full boat? Obviously. No. Um Yeah, but no, so I'm excited for the prospect.
It was a really difficult decision and one that I think like a lot of us in the industry wrestle with, you know. It's like what point, you know, for me, and what I mean by that is like for me, really what this decision was was like about passion versus money in the future, you know, and everything I've done up to this point in my career has been passion driven, you know, and by that I mean like, you know, being in my mid-20s and being an intern at the museum, you know, and like working all these other side jobs and just kind of doing whatever it takes to make ends meet to keep like chasing this dream, you know, that we all have as young cooks, you know, that you keep having as you grow older. But ultimately it's like, you know, I can't keep doing that forever, and I can't keep doing things at a discounted rate, you know, especially now that I'm engaged and want to get married, or you know, going to get married and want to. I like that. Um you know what I say about fiance.
Yeah. Least permanent title there is. Yeah. So yeah, I gotta get serious about all of that. It was a really difficult decision.
Listen, like as like someone who's had people that you know were important to what I was doing, leave because they needed either like more money or benefits that I couldn't provide. You shouldn't get mad about that. Yeah, no, it's n it's nothing personal. No, and like you know, it's just yeah, you know, like but part of the I mean part of the sad part about running businesses that no one wants to talk about is that as a small business owner, you don't have a lot of wiggle room in what you can provide. Yeah.
So and if you want the best for your people and they get a job that pays more, it's like, you know, hate the system, not the person. You know what I mean? It's like the system's not set up for to, you know, yeah, pay everyone what we want, yeah, what they're worth. You know what I mean? Exactly.
Whatever that means, whatever somebody's human being's worth means. You know what I mean? But uh yeah, so congrats. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so it's exciting.
It's you know, been like tearing me up inside also because of my friendship, you know, with India, you know, at Merketon, who was I was gonna open to Roselli with and everything like that. But yeah, ultimately I think you know, it's you gotta do what's best for you at the end of the day. Yeah. You know what I mean? The real shame as far as I'm concerned, is like I thought we were gonna have all these sandwich power rankings.
Me too. And now, you know, we were gonna have the sandwich power rankings and then have them show up maybe on the menu. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
And all of that. You just threw that in the dirt for what? For what? A comfortable life? Yes, exactly.
For what? So that you could buy a house, so that you could get married? You you got rid of our power rankings for that? Yeah. Come on, sorry, man.
No heart. No heart. No, yeah, that's the thing, no heart. Yeah. Well, you know, uh when life ends up staring you in the face, what is it?
That rancid Nazi Heidegger said, uh, you know, your horizons close as you get older. You have to when you start your young, your horizons are very wide and they're narrow down. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Uh some of that like uh horizon narrowing is artificial that you you impose it on yourself, but some of it's very real. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? 100%. In the sense that A, people won't ask you to do things that uh when you're older because they'll go with someone that you know makes more sense to them.
Yeah. B, you literally don't have as much energy, and see a lot of these things take years to to you know come to fruition, and you know, you already have bills to pay if you're an adult, and so you can't wait years again unless you're born rich, which is the best solution. That would have yes. The best solution in life is to be born rich. Yeah.
The second best solution is probably marry rich. Yes. That I'm also not doing. So you know, yeah. Everything else isn't also ran.
Yeah, yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. I in my opinion. Yeah.
What about you, Queen? What do you got? All right, besides the uh Oh, water main break. Talk to me about this. Who did it?
Your mom or your dad? Yeah. And how my brother. Your brother, your brother. How did he do it?
My brother helping helping my mother. She was trying to put in supports for a tree in the front yard. Ah. Drives down like a stake into the ground. Well, I'm familiar.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you know what? This tree needs longer stakes.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you know this. Yeah. But uh in general, it's considered good practice to uh check where all of your underground services are before you put any big holes in the ground.
Just saying. You know this now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, I I I probably would have thought of that if I had been involved in this uh endeavor, but uh sadly no. Good news is you know where your water main is now. Yeah. Must be nice. Yeah.
Do you have uh overhead power there or or buried power? Uh I think buried? Yeah, yeah. You know, next time you dig a hole. There's a lot of big there's a lot of big trees in the neighborhood, so I think it's underground.
Well, we have a lot of big trees, but no one had the money to bury the power, so the power consequently goes out constantly. Uh but uh yeah. Uh yeah, please uh have them check where the uh electric service is before you dig the next hole in your backyard. Uh because uh a water main break is one thing, but that's a whole nother ball of whacks. You know what I mean?
Uh I do have cooking related uh updates. Yeah, oh by the way. Well, you know why. Before you finish, how impressive before you finish, how impressive was the water main break? What did it look like?
No, apparently it wasn't that impressive. You know, it's a small spike, so they like put in the steak in the ground, and they're like, oh man, that's a strange sound that this tool is producing, and the sound was gurgling water through soil. But you didn't get the like the uh truck over a fire hydrant effect, which is awesome. No, no. Yeah, all right, okay.
All right. Now, now uh, what were you saying? Go ahead. Sorry. Well, you know one bit of news.
I finally found Ash Mead's kernel. Yeah, nice. How was it? Was it everything I told you it would be and more? I hope you refrigerate it.
And I haven't tasted it. Oh, it's just refrigerate them. Oh, yeah. If you don't refrigerate the ash meads kernel, the malic acid in it will get converted to sugar. Or not sugar.
It'll get converted to non-acid. And so, like, it'll like ash mead's kernels, once they're picked and and stored, they'll kind of lose their acidity, which is good if you're going to process it into a cider, but bad if you're going to like a fermented cider, but bad if you're gonna eat them or you know, use them in uh in cocktails. So I would eat one now. You know what I mean? Well, yeah, we we've been eating them.
And then yesterday I pressed it, processed it a bunch, most of it, into a sorbet. So I'm gonna taste that today because it's still freezing. Ascorbic acid? Uh a little bit, yeah. Good, thank God.
Nothing's sadder to me than taking an apple of that quality and turning it into fresh juice without using ascorbic acid because it just turns into juice. You know what I mean? If you just let it go brown, it just turns into juice. What's that all about? Like, why'd you spend all that money in time?
It turned it, it still turned pretty brown. Well, next time more ascorbic acid. By the time you you know, spin it up into a sorbet, it it it's actually a pleasant warm, almost caramel color. Yeah. It doesn't look fragmentantly.
I mean, ash meads kernel, because the skin is already um brown and can be ruddy in spots, uh, it's not gonna produce like a green juice, but you don't want it to get oxidized because then you're gonna lose some of the characteristic flavors. Well I I always like you can do one of two things. Like if you're doing large quantities of them, you can just toss some in as you chum them up. So like if you're using a cider press, I would add it at the chum up stage and before the press. But if you're using a juicer, I would just um throw some ascorbic into whatever you're juicing into, and after you juice the first, you know, two or three apples, you just stir the juice with a spoon that suspends and dissolves enough ascorbic acid that all the remaining juice is ascorbicified like the second it's made.
Uh so that's what I've always done for the past, I don't know, 25 years or whatever. Uh, you know, small, small period of time, quarter of a century. That's all. You know what I mean? But like that's in general what what I uh what I do.
Uh all right. Well, let us know when are you are you doing uh traditional spin or are you doing uh in a ninja creamy? Yeah, no, we're doing the we're doing the ninja. Yeah, creamy. What a name.
And I've got two other varieties of apples on deck. We're picking up some more probably this weekend. So I'm gonna do at least probably three uh surveys with my apple calculator, which again patrons have early access to. Once I finish my testing, I'll probably release the calculator. But how are you getting the uh acid levels for it?
Um mostly uh data or estimation. Yeah. But that's the same thing. First of all, the data set has acid a lot of who does? I you know, I have data on on a good number of apples that I've actually titrated by hand.
They're in the data that you and the Patreon people all have access to, if only you folks would use them. In my ingredient list I have maybe I have maybe fifteen apples. And the the thing about apples is I got a I've got a hundred. That you tested? I mean, these are ones I physically tested.
No, that I've that I've cobbled together from other papers. Yeah, I don't trust any outside paper ever on things like apples because you shouldn't even trust my data because my data holds for apples grown between about New Hampshire and New York, you know, in the in the Hudson Valley and up the acid levels uh in various apples is going to be very different, not only depending on where it's grown, but exactly when they harvest it, because that apple the acid quantity changes dramatically over time uh for an apple, and then as I said, upon storage will change again dramatically. And so, you know, Ashmeat's kernel alone, you know, I've had, you know that like are like a a factor of five different in different directions depending on how it's grown and and how it's stored. The good news is when you're acid adjusting something that you know, as long as your target goal is higher in acid, which is not gonna be for sorbet, but which it is for like acid adjusting in a cocktail, like being off by half a percent isn't a big deal because you you're adjusting up to six. But when you're adjusting uh you know, when you're adjusting only a couple of percent, that's when being wrong is a much bigger problem.
And so, you know, you on something like an apple, which is going to be very different from location to location, uh, because apples are extremely terroir dependent in their flavor, which is why you can't judge an apple. Like I tell you Ash Mead's kernel is my favorite apple, but it you could get one that's grown under conditions where it's not maybe a great apple, although I think it's a great apple everywhere. Uh that particular one. But um you're gonna have to use your palate somewhat. You know what I mean?
Like uh Yeah but for my calculator, uh the acid level just dictates like there's always a little ad additional malic acid in the recipe, but there's a narrow range that the calculator will adjust up or down slightly depending on the reported uh acid level. Right. So it's more just about trying to make the apple a little more characteristically either more or less sour, depending on what the character is sort of supposed to be. Right. But it's still a pretty small amount even at the maximum.
Well it's hard it it's actually hard it's hard to judge there's two things. One is that the acid level of an apple is very much harder to judge by your palate than the acid sugar ratio. Because some apples are, you know, take a Wixen. A Wixen is both very high in sugar and very high in acid, right? But it tastes similarly balanced to an apple that is both lower in sugar and lower in acid.
So if you were judging it simply based on its acidity, you might underjudge it compared to an apple that has the same amount of acidity, let's say like a granny smith, but has uh the granny smith has less sugar, so it tastes tartar, right? As a as a uh more sour. But so it can be a little bit, it can be a little bit complicated. But yeah, I think grouping into is this thing sour, is it medium, or is it like, you know, very not sour? Is it a Fuji?
Is it a Fuji? Is it, you know, a Spitzenberg or a or Ashmeat's kernel, right? And so, like in that range, uh, you know, like I think like even just having three settings would be useful useful for most people who aren't going to be able to measure. Anyway, um, I'm glad to hear you're getting good animals. Don't call for measuring the acid level in the recipe is because that's like a lot of material to like well, you know, I have I have an easy way to do it.
I have a way with no material. I've I've told you how to do it with baking soda, right? It's just a pain in the butt. It's a baking soda, yeah. I know.
But I'm saying, yeah, I'm saying that also requires, you know, some amount of the actual ingredient, right? Uh yeah. I mean, some, not a lot. It's not hyperaccurate, but the it the main problem with that technique is it's a pain in the butt. That's what sucks about it.
And the and the any the fact of the matter is, is like I think you're probably better off just kind of guessing. I would just be careful about using like a paper from Turkey to tell you what an apple grown in Canada is like. Which a lot of these papers aren't from the locale where you are from, right? And so like I've read papers on like apricots from other continents. I've read papers on like many fruits where the numbers are coming in in dissimilar growing environments, don't have things that are necessarily useful for you where you are in general, wherever you come from.
You know what I mean? Although the the recipe does with the calculator does require you to measure the uh bricks with a refractometer. So that's no the sugar is sugar. Sugar is easy. Like, you know, you know, any any anyone anyone who wants to invest, you know, $20 in a cheap refractometer can measure the sugar.
Anyway, uh what did what did I do this week of cooking note? I got my tandoor, but I haven't fired it up yet. I got a more on more on that later. I got my tandoor back. I might have already uh mentioned that.
Uh what else? I went to traffic court. That was unpleasant, but not cooking related. And the judge, if you want to call this person a judge, made errors of both fact and logic. So now I have to uh appeal it.
So like the officer, and I'm not blaming the officer for this, because they it was one of these things I was on a bike, right? And they stopped me for ostensibly going through a red bike light. I did not. I was not in the bike lane. I was in the car lane, which had a green light, right?
So officer could have written me a ticket for not being in the bike lane, and I would have been like, fine, I will pay that. But they wrote me running a red light, which I did not do, right? And so I show up at the uh at the hearing, and the judge is like, you had to stop at that red light. I'm like, in fact, I didn't. It wasn't in my lane.
It's like all of these, you know, it doesn't make sense. If you let's say, let's say that bike lane meant that red light for bikes meant bikes in any lane must stop. That means I'm in a traffic lane. They want me to stop in the middle of the traffic lane. No, it's dumb.
It makes no common sense. It's also, I think, legally wrong. So, and the the officer, again, not throwing shade on them because they were at a traffic stop. So they just write up the whole thing and then just add the particulars of the name for who they pull over, right? Because they're doing this like 20, 30, 40, 50 times in a day to generate revenue and to get bikers to obey the traffic like rules, right?
So it's a dual pronged thing. By the way, the ticket for running a red light is three times the amount of money of the ticket for not being in the bike lane. So I was like, I will pay the one that I did, right? Judge, maybe. Here's what really ticked me off, though.
The officer made two incorrect statements of fact. One that I was in the bike lane and went through the red light. Incorrect statement of fact, which by the way, when I said that's an incorrect statement of fact, the officer did not rebut me, did not say, you're wrong. Was just like, you can't see me unless you're a Patreon member, but do one of these. You know, like one of these.
That my shoulders are going up and I'm giving you the like the squinty eye pursed lips, like that. The second statement of fact that was incorrect was, and this is what really really ticked me off, because for those of you that know me, like in some ways I'm incredibly imprecise and don't care. But when it comes to certain like things, I'm highly precise. The uh the officer said in in his sworn sworn statement, I pulled him over, pulled, you know, Mr. Arnold over.
And I was like, he didn't pull me over. His partner pulled me over. His partner jumped out in front of me in the bike lane and pulled me over. And the judge said this that's just a figure of speech. I'm like, whoa, I pulled you over as a figure of speech.
It takes so much longer to say my partner pulled him over. Right? It's the same kind of figure of speech as I observed him going through the light. Moron. It's not a figure of speech.
It's an incorrect factual statement pointing to the fact that this statement was written after the fact and not an actual indication of what happened at that time. Jerks. Anyway. Uh morons. Also not cooking related on the way into the show today.
I she must work somewhere at Rock Center, but I felt so bad for her. She's like a 20-something year old woman who's wearing a sweatshirt, a light blue sweatshirt with giant letters on the back that said, Ask me with an exclamation point. And I'm like, oh my God, this poor woman has to walk down the street with a giant sign on her back that says, Ask me. Now in New York, you know somebody will. Like most of us are gonna be like, I'm gonna ignore that.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make this person's life a living hell. But there's gotta be. In the eight billion people you well, okay, eight billion. In the in the 50,000 people you might pass in a given day in Rockefeller Center, one or 12 of them are gonna be that guy. Yeah.
You know what I'm saying? Don't make your don't make your crew wear shirts, giant sweatshirts that say ask me on the back. Don't do it. Yeah. You know what I mean?
It's not considerate. It's not considerate. No, especially, you know, especially a young woman here in the city, please. You know what I mean? I'm sure she has enough problems.
Um, anything else for the week? Are we going on to questions? By the way, if you want us to answer your questions, you need to be a member of the Patreon and also to watch these things. And John Winnie tell them why they might want to do that. Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues where you can find out all the different membership levels.
Each membership level gets you access to different perks, uh, like the video feed where you could have seen Dave's imitation of the police officer who was in court. Um get I'm not even doxing them though. I could. I should dox the judge because he's worthless. Well, to see all this live, go to patreon.com/slash cooking issues.
Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, not blaming the officer on this one. Yeah. The the quote unquote judge.
Hmm. Maybe. Uh the uh worthless this person. You know what? There's a huge difference between like judges in a court and like these kind of administrative judges, at least in this one case.
I'm sure most administrative judges are great, and I just happen to get the turkey of the bunch. You know what I mean? I'm sure. Moron. You know what I mean?
Okay. Oh, uh speaking of the Patreon. Owen Kay wanted to last week when we when we were ostensibly talking about uh tree-based, tree-based uh what's it called? Spirits. And by the way, after everyone left, uh he said, Brian said, Oh, I happen to have one with me.
You want to taste it? And we're like, yeah. And so we did. We couldn't be tasting on air, but it was a birch-based uh spirit. It was good, right, Joe?
Delicious. Yeah. It was a birch-based spirit, and it was uh it was made from I think Scandinavian birch uh like syrup that was distilled in England, and I thought it was good. Had a very had a very specific taste, uh, enjoyed it. Anyway, so uh for whatever reason, we ended up on Garam.
We had a huge tangent on Garum and fish sauce uh at the near the beginning of that episode. And I mentioned the recipe that I was supposed to be writing for the New York Times, 15 years ago, uh uh called Numidian Chicken, which is a restaurant from a peaceus. And Owen Kay wanted uh to know that recipe, and I have given it to Quinn with all of my write-ups uh and steps and some photos from when I was uh talking to the New York Times about it, and so he's gonna post that to the Discord if he has not already. But uh, you know, most of it's about what I was talking about before Asafetida, aka Hing versus laser, which is this like flavoring thing that was used a lot in uh in uh Roman recipes and uh fish sauce and chicken. I even pulled out some of my paper bag cooking technology because I didn't have a rummertuf that would uh hold a whole chicken back when I was doing it.
So you ever do paperbag cooking, John? No, I haven't. It's old school. I mean, not old school, it's like medium school. Yeah.
It's it was developed, I don't know if you know this, after the paper bag was invented. You don't you don't say. Yeah. I mean, before that, there was of course on papillotte, and before that, there was uh, you know, cooking in things like bladders and and in leathers and stuff like that. But you know, paperback cooking, I think really took off after the invention of the mass-produced paper bag, yeah, as you as you might guess.
Yes. And when I was a kid, I used to I used to do it at least once a week. I mainly did it with chicken. It was mainly a chicken-based technology, which is why for me, which is why I ended up using it in this in this case. You know what?
I wonder what would happen if you did paperbag bread. Only one way to find out, I guess. Well, because results next week, I guess. Well, because I don't know if I have time to run it because if you think about it, what the paper bag is doing is sealing some of the steam in at the beginning, right, and then letting it go later. Yeah.
So I wonder whether it, you know, if it's a a substitute for something like clay cooking, would it substitute for something like clay cooking in bread? Who the hell knows? Not I. I have not tested it. Hmm.
Uh by the way, if you guys look up the original paperback cookbook, one of them, which is by a person, I forget his first name, but his last name is Sawyer, claimed to be a relative of the very famous Alexis Sawyer, writer of the gastronomic regenerator, who was one of the most famous chefs in England prior to when Escolfier started the uh Savoy with writz in uh in London. Before that, Alexis Sawyer was the man. He was, you know, the classic French guy brought over to England to French E up the food for the fancy folk. He also did a lot of food for uh poorer people uh and did uh cooking stoves for the military. Interesting dude.
So this other guy was trying to catch some of Sawyer's shine, uh, but he was uh, as it turns out, a charlatan. But he still did write a book called Paperback Cooking. Paperback Cookery, because it's British. Anyway. Uh so yeah, you can find that uh Numidian chicken recipe on uh our Discord.
At WheatsNet, would love to hear about my plans for my kitchen slash outdoor cooking setup at the new place. What's indispensable uh what's not? John, are you thought about uh cooking in Lyme? Have you set up anything at your mom's place? No, not really.
That's more because she won't let me. Um, but I would love some kind of wood fired like base cooking and then adjustable um like greats, whether that be by chain or you know, swapping it into like a counterlever kind of thing or something like that. I don't know, but yeah. How how large a thing do you want to fit on this kind of human human size? Be nice to like do like a lamb thing.
A whole lamb. Yeah, it would be fun. Nice. So for me, I I have to have a compact space. And there's certain things that I would like to have that I don't know if I'm going to be able to have.
I I think you need running water. To make like an outdoor kitchen y thing like reasonable, you need some form of running water. Now I'm not allowed to do that where I am because I can't drain anything outside. So what I'm probably gonna do is use a uh a garden hose hookup to a sink that's detachable because then and then drain it into like a five gallon bucket, because then I don't have to permit the water. But like being able, and I might even foot pedal it.
But like because to be able to just rinse your hand off while you're especially if you're dealing with lots of skewers full of like, you know, meat with all sorts of goopy stuff, like having to have your hands constantly filthy is a nightmare when you're cooking on a grill without water, right? Yeah. Nightmare. Uh another thing is a because I'm gonna do tandoor and also regular horizontal grilling, I want to place uh like a re a rod where I can hang skewers and like hang like meats and pots and stuff to keep keep them up out of the way, where if it drips down, it's easy to clean. Now, I want to have triple fuel capability.
And by that I mean I want to be able to use wood, I want to be able to use uh charcoal, and I also want to be able to use gas. Now, the one thing I know I'm gonna run on gas is my uh deep fryer. So I already have my old, what used to be an indoor 20 uh 40 pound deep fryer, commercial deep fryer. And I've already converted that from 10 years ago when I used to have a place in Connecticut 12 years ago, to running on propane. The issue with uh those is that you can't run them effectively off of single 20 gallon tanks because the uh the valves shut off.
When you when you suck that much energy out of it right away, the valves can shut off. And also you need to heat the propane in a 20-pound tank to get it to deliver the amount of gas you need, especially as it gets cooler outside into that. So, what I'm gonna do is get a hundred-pound propane tank. I'm gonna put three regulators on it. One is gonna be the low pressure regulator that's used for like grilling, and I'm not gonna put a gas grill in, but I am gonna get gas burners that I can put into.
I didn't mention this yet. My for my grilling area, what I want is a raised Roman focus style hearth. I've only ever cooked on one once, but the idea of having a hearth high that you could build a fire on and or put grates on and move stuff around is and you can put shields in front of it so you can make it act like a regular, like uh regular barbecue by like moving like shields of grates around, but you can also move coals wherever you want them or fire wherever you want them and put a tripod over it. You can hang things. It's just it's treating your outdoor grilling almost like a flat top or like a stove where you can just move stuff around.
And I one time I cooked on it, I was like, this is nice. And then usually under that is where you have kind of wood storage, right? So that it it keeps your wood dry and it also like you know gives you a raised cooking area. Next to that, I would like a small retained heat masonry oven that I could also fire with uh with a gas burner if I want. And I have my tandor, which I want to like do for vertical grilling, like in between and down.
So that's my main live fire cooking setup that I want. Then I want my deep fryer and I want a gas uh walk burner outside. Now the gas walk burner, the what you you don't want to use an indoor walk burner outside. I'll tell you why. They run off of low gas pressure, and that's fine, right?
But outside, there's a lot of wind. And so the wind can really mess with like a low pressure walk burner. So you need one of the higher pressure walk burners. They run around 20 PSI, I think, right? Whereas like, you know, the your barbecue grills, all of those burners are running like under one PSI.
So right there you need two regulators. And the third regulator I'm gonna use, I told you guys, I'm gonna I'm gonna put a Searsol on a stick on a on a on a on a hose for like lighting stuff up and touching up. That one's gonna require 60 PSI. So I'm gonna need a triple regulator, and I'm gonna try to run it off of a hundred-pound propane tank, which I store around the corner from where the thing is. So that's the main and with an awning over it.
So that's I want to try to get that as compact as possible. Uh I'd love to have a fridge, but I don't know if I'm gonna have room for it. Wouldn't it be nice to have an outdoor fridge? It would. It would.
I don't think I'm gonna have one because you have to make sure to shut it off and it's uh outdoor electricity, me, me, me, me, moo me, me, me. But like, would it be nice to have? Yeah. Hell yeah, okay. Can't have it all though.
Can't have it all. No. Yeah. No, not like Bogey and Bacall. They could have it all.
You know what I mean? Yes. Does anyone even know that song anymore? No. People.
Do people even know who Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall are anymore? I doubt it. People are the worst. Yeah. No memory.
They're like, um, you you know, that was a long time ago. Yeah. So what? You know what I mean? A lot of things were a long time ago.
You know? Yeah. People still have to read Chaucer in high school. Yeah. Yeah.
Civil War. That was a long time ago. Yeah. You still know about it. Yeah.
I hope. You know what I mean? If you're an American, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. All right.
Um, was that uh was that good to covered and smothered on the uh on the outdoor cooking? Yes. Covered and smothered. The one thing I need to figure out that I had a problem with last time is sealing up the fryer. So Wiley, my brother in law, Wiley Dufrain, he has the Cajun fryer.
What's nice about the Cajun fryer is it's got a lid gunk that closes, and that sucker is sealed. Sealed. Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing getting into it, right? Problem with mine is it's a it's a commercial fryer, so like it's hard to seal because the back flu of the fryer goes high to get past where the oil is.
But I can't figure out a way to effectively seal the oil container because the water's gonna come down, hit the the flu, you know, the the flue, and then even if I cover the flu, it's gonna go in on the I I have to figure out how to seal this damn thing. You know what I mean? In a way that's fast that preserves the oil so I can leave the oil outside when I'm not using it. Because you you don't you don't one and done on a 40-pound fryer. Yeah.
You can get like six, seven fries out of it if you're if you're being careful. Um so I just need to figure all of that out. Also, you know what you don't want? You don't want mice or voles building nests inside your tube burners because they'll get crispy when you turn it back on. I know this from experience, but it's not it's not the best.
Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like pretty hardcore. Anyway. Uh crispy.
All right. Uh tupe. T-O-O-P-E. Toupe? Yeah.
Toup. Toup. Yeah. Tup road in. Uh I want to eliminate or subdue the coconut flavor from coconut milk.
Quinn's probably got some some stuff on this. Coconut milk is great in curry dishes, but sometimes he wants something less coconutty as an alt milk for mashed potatoes. What would you do? I mean, I'm like I mean, like, if you can have nut milk, why why not just like an almond milk which has a good bit of fat in it? Or, you know, if you're rich, although I'm told pistachio milk doesn't really taste like pistachios.
The commercial stuff. I've never tried the commercial pistachio milk. Uh oat milk has fat emulsified into it, so it can act like milk. Um almonds. I would also say, like, you can also make a potato with like stock for a liquid, and then just like add a little oil or I mean if it's lactose, concern, clarified butter, or just some sort of neutral.
Yeah, I'm guessing this is a vegan. I'm guessing this is a vegan situation or a non-milk situation, not a lactose, all that's not clear. Let the coconut milk separate, skim off a bunch of the coconut fat in theory, and then mix that with what like the little bit of water that's left in the bottom and use that, maybe. Well, you could, but then it doesn't have fat. And then how are you making mashed potatoes?
Well like you could use you could use all of them. You could use you could use, I mean, frankly, you could just emulsify olive oil into something. Uh you know what I mean? But like I think like Yeah, I mean, I mean, like what what the question toop is what what do you have against almond milk and or oat milk and or pistachio milk and or cashew milk and or and or hand or again, they pay it they pay us milking, but Joy, J O I makes a paste that you can convert water into these milks, and they work fine. Although I would stabilize them with uh a little zer arabic and sand thing what are we saying quinn like a bit nut milk would be pretty delicious in potatoes then you gotta make it you know I've never figured out why when you roast a hazelnut it gets darker on the inside it's completely backwards hazelnuts burn from the center out anyone else noticed this it's a true story think about it maybe the middle is higher in sugar don't know we have that question coming up later by the way higher in sugar which I know Quinn already knows the answer to so we'll see if he pops through the phone to give it before we can but uh all right um so what do you think covered enough we need more information from toop yeah I mean I think if we need more information to know what is yeah what the problem is I mean I like to use cream in which case you need something with a very high fat content like in and around 30% I know some people are butter only people but I think it would be crazy to use a non emulsified butter is emulsified it's just a reverse emulsion but I think like you know you probably get fat float out if you were using straight I've never tried just straight olive oil.
Have any of you tried just straight olive oil I have not I I I made um still with dairy but I made a really pretty tasty um scallion mashed potatoes to go over an experimental shepherd's pie. I believe it's like just like a scallion oil emulsified with like water or vegetable broth would be a pretty good idea. So the main fat in this was scallion oil. No, I did well, I did scallion butter. So I'm saying for tubes.
Well, what I'm saying is is that was the butter clarified? In other words, was it was was the water taken out of the butter, or was it still an emulsion? And they fried, and then I added cream. So it was still it became multified. Yeah.
So I'm wondering whether an emulsion is necessary in this case. And by the way, you know who are in general not considered an experimental sort of people? Shepherds. You know what I'm saying? Like you have all these sheep, and if you if you mess with them and they die because you experimented, your your livelihood is toast.
You know what I mean? It's not a it doesn't, it's not conducive to massive amounts of experimentation. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Good point.
Yeah. And also, I don't know if you know you think about this, but this is a job people have had since biblical times and before. This is not like, you know, shepherd come lately situation. You know what I'm saying? Yep.
Yep, good points. Yeah. But maybe they experiment with their pies. Maybe as far as you know, maybe that's where they do all their experimentation with their pie. Shepherd's pie are good though.
Delicious. Yeah. Uh what do you like better though? The shepherd's pie or a chicken pot pie? I mean, probably a chicken pot pie.
Chicken pot pie. One the other day was fantastic. Yeah, chicken pot pie is delicious. I'll get this. There are people in my family who love a chicken pot pie.
Don't like pearl onions. Saddleball. I don't know. Had Lime Country Market near where you're at in lime makes a very good frozen chicken Popeyes. Yeah?
Yeah. Big fan. Hey, here's a question for you, John, since you turned me on to the frozen pearled onion. The frozen pearled onions I can get in the store these days are too big. Does anyone freeze the small ones?
Oh, I have no idea. I haven't looked recently. I prefer a smaller gauge, John. Yeah. Yeah, sorry.
If anyone out there knows who makes the high grade small gauge, like whatever the petit pois version of pearl onions is. How would you say that? Onion uh Petit Pois d'Onion? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Whoever makes that, you have a customer here. If uh if you know who it is, you know what I mean? Because y y I get what my family says you don't want them too big. Yeah. Yeah.
Did you ever find anyone who sells pearled uh pre-frozen cipolinis? No. That'd be good. That would be. There's gotta be someone.
Yeah, be good though. Yeah. You'd eat the hell out of that, right? Yeah. Wouldn't you roast the ever loving snot out of those things?
Yeah. Because once you roast, it doesn't matter that's frozen. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just toss those in with your potatoes when you're roasting them.
Yeah. Underneath your chicken. You get your you get your sheet pan, right? You get you you toss the the potatoes and the onions with some like, you know, oil, salt, pepper, rosemary, a little sugar. Put the chicken over it, you won.
Yeah. That's it. You're winning. You know what I'm saying? Yes.
In my opinion. Uh Zach, if you eat chicken and onions. So if you're not a Jane, right? I would like to get a Jane. I think someone just recently wrote a Jane book.
I would like to get a Jane, because that's a cooking style, like where you not just vegetarian, not just vegan, but you can't use onions or alliums. I would be very interested in Jane cooking. I know that there's a pop up in New York once a month that does a Jane dinner. But I I know zero about Jane cooking. You'd be interesting, right?
I know there's similar restrictions for like um like you know in like Korean Buddhist temple cuisine. Also, no onion. I don't use any of those Yeah, no onion or garlic. I think it's still allowed chili. But yeah.
I don't know. I don't know the Jane theory of peppers. But I guess you're just not supposed to inflame the emotions, right? I would I would love to know more uh uh about it. Um by know more about it, I mean uh taste some food made by someone who knows what they're talking about.
You know, you know what I mean? Um Zach from Pittsburgh, what's up, Jans? Way back in the early days of cooking issues, Dave commented that he could give fewer technical uh cooking tips if I wanted to, specifically mentioning what you could do with a ham bone. I don't think anyone ever actually took the bait. So say I have the dried out end of a country ham, what should I do with it?
Uh assume I have stockpots and pressure cookers big enough for it, access to standard home kitchen range, oven microwave toasters, basic tools. Well, uh water is gonna be your friend uh with uh these hand bones. So in general, the smaller, like the the dried out side of the ham plus the bone, I usually reserve for long cooked wet things. So uh one of the problems with country hams is that for for people who are used to cooking only what you know, what I call a city ham, like a like a wet cured ham as opposed to a dry cured ham, is that especially when they get older, the fat takes on a very particular twang and the meat is like very dark. So it's not necessarily the flavor you're kind of expecting.
So I would taste some of the fat first. Uh I like it, but it's like very specific. Um that said, uh peas, like, you know, like split pea soup. If you eat ham, which of course you do, otherwise you wouldn't ask this question, but split pea soup made with uh a regular ham is delicious, made with a country ham is like double delicious. You know what I mean?
Any kind of bean soup, uh any kind of uh, you know, like stocks on their own can be a little overwhelming because of the country hand taste, but once you have things like beans in them, that's basically what I do. I don't see a reason to do anything else. You know what I'm saying? By the way, I know I've said this before, this is a city ham, but the honey baked ham corporation makes a good city city spiral ham. You know what I mean?
Yeah. City cured spiral ham. It's a good product. I mean you can't take that away from them. You know what I'm saying?
They also sell a bean soup kit, which sounds ridiculous because it's just beans and spices. You could do this yourself. You know what I mean? Good. Yeah.
It's good. Yeah. Yeah. So if you get the country base, if you get the the spiral uh ham with the bone in, get the soup mix. You know what else they sell there?
They sell just the bones. So if you if you're like, I don't want to, you know, I don't have a hundred dollars or whatever it is to buy, you know, a honey baked ham and I have a hankering for the soup, you buy a bone in the soup mix. There you go. Anyway, uh Johnny Baseball writes in, I just bought a rabbit from a local farmer and he says the bucks, which is the dude rabbits, taste worse than the does or the female rabbits. I know in pigs, they usually castrate uh the boars to avoid bore taint, but is that an issue in all animals?
Well I know they castrate uh cows to make uh or bulls to make steers. But uh in the papers uh that I was able to find a a comparison of the quality of meat from female and male Californian and Flemish giant gray rabbits by Tomas uh Daskowitz in 2020. Uh they were not able to find any difference between uh the taste of male versus female, although there was a difference between the Californian and Flemish giant, uh although I don't remember which was considered better. But uh they didn't see a statistical difference in flavor between the two. Now, I I also searched the paper for any mention of castration, and there wasn't.
So they weren't castrating them. Um, in the methods section. Um yeah, I don't know. They they say there's not, but I one thing uh is that all of the rabbits in that study were slaughtered when they were 91 days old. So maybe it's true that like these kind of uh you know sex changes in hormones that affect meat flavor in rabbits develops after 91 days of age, which is roughly three months.
Uh so I don't know. I don't know. You know, the paper said specifically sex had no significant effect on the majority of the analyzed meat quality attributes. However, further research is needed to investigate why the meat of female rabbits had consistently higher vitamin A content. So who knows?
So that's all I got. That's all I got on rabbits. Uh polymax writes in, or maybe it's polymax. Polymex polemax. Who knows?
Who knows? Everyone knows I can't pronounce anything. Hey, Dave, uh first time, long time. I love to drink Chinese tea, specifically puer tea. Uh the good stuff is delicious.
So for those that don't know, Puer tea is a tea that is compressed, uh various kinds of compression, various styles, but like the most famous is cakes. Well, and then aged and then aged for a long period of time. Yeah, but that's not how they make it. They turn it into loose leaf. They age it in cakes, right?
No, no, no. You can get mountain. Which is the just loose tea. They age it loose. Yep.
I mean again, uh a new trend now is is fresh puer. People are drinking this year's harvest, too. Okay, well, t when I'm thinking pure, I'm thinking of a cake, it's pressed, it's aged for like one to twenty years, right? I'm assuming that's what Pol Max means. I don't know.
Like, I don't know about your newfangled puer, but like uh I'm assuming that's what they mean. Anyway, in general, this is gonna be the brewer brewer is also only from a specific region of Union. Yeah, I used to also graphic. I used to buy the ones that weren't aged that much, but they were pressed into little pellets like in paper. You know what I mean?
You have seen those? They look like like juju bees. Neither. Like they have like an indent, they look like a like a juju bee or something, and they they're in the yeah, yeah, I've seen that with. Yeah.
Um, uh, I love to drink Chinese tea, specifically pu'er tea, the good stuff is delicious. So delicious, in fact, that I want to add that flavor to my food. Do you have any tips on how to incorporate tea into baked goods? I need you guys to focus on that baked goods, uh, so I can actually taste it in the final product. I've tried vacuum sealing dried fruit with the brewed tea and baking with that.
Presumably the tea would go into the fruit, you know, but not into the batter itself, right? Uh, I've tried uh adding quadruple strength brewed tea into the batter or dough, but even with these, I can't taste it in the end. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Well, Polymex. One thing that you have just discovered is that flour, flour covers a lot of flavor.
This is why if you want to make red pasta, just dump in ketchup. And it doesn't matter. You can't taste the ketchup. Assuming you're baked good, and Quinn can go off on whatever he wants here, but um I wouldn't like a lot of your baked goods aren't going to have that much of a liquid base in them, depending on what you're doing. And so I might consider also putting it into the fat, right?
So if you like a lot of the aromatics, not not the astringency, not the caffeine, not some of the umami things, but a lot of the aromatics in tea are fat soluble. And so if there's a lot of fat in your recipe, I would consider uh circulating the tea with the fat for a while or heating it with the fat for a while to extract it into the fat. Uh what were you just gonna say, Quinn? Well, yeah, I mean, this is the type of tea that I do drink quite a bit, and I have played around with um cooking with some of the tea. I mean, it is challenging because I would say the deeper you go, especially into puer.
Well, now the main question I would have for them are they talking about the raw brewer or fermented brewer? Because I actually think fermented brewer and other types of fermented teas could be a little more conducive to incorporating into food because they are actually sort of suited or not designed, but they are traditionally a lot of fermented teas are boiled hard and they don't become, you know, overly astringent or or bitter. I mean, um Polymex isn't saying they're having a problem with astringency. Polymex made a quadruple strength brewed tea and then couldn't taste it in the end. The main problem is just getting taste through.
So like with with matcha, I think they're probably adding the powder directly to the snake. This is another thing you could do. You could just powderize it and add it directly. I will tell you though, eating tea, I've never it's not true. Very rarely have I felt worse from ingesting food than when I ingested a whole tea bag.
Oh my God. Wrecked me. But like, you know. Um another baked good would be something with a liquid filling, like some sort of custard tart or like, you know, that you're either gel filling. You're cheating.
Like Polymex wants to get the flavor into the into the dodo. Right. So it's like I don't know. Well no, I mean they they experimented with getting it into the a dried fruit component, so I'm just suggesting other components in a baked good or a dessert that are higher in liquid and therefore. I mean, tea picks up in cream quite a bit.
So just adding like a a tea based whipped cream, we used to do that constantly, like infusing the tea into into cream. You have to if you heat it at all, you have to chill it for a while after you heat it or the cream won't whip right. But uh, we used to do that all the time. Mainly with Lopsong, but we did it with a bunch of different teas. If you also try a alcohol-based tincture and just see what is what is extracted and what is that like, you know, deployed into a a cream or uh or uh uh using low moisture is gonna be hard.
It can be difficult with alcohol. Uh high strength tea alcohols and creams can tend to break, depending on how much you add, can break milk components because the you're destabilizing it both with alcohol and with the polyphenols that are in the tea. But you know, I've done many, many alcoholic extractions of tea, mainly for redistillation, like many, many, including poo-air. Uh, but um yeah, I mean, you could do an alcohol infusion and then like if it's cooking off, you know, you could you could probably add it to something and boil it down more and get like a super concentrated thing, you know what I mean? But um, I don't know.
Let us know. Let us know exactly what you think. Uh Polymex of these suggestion. Caesaric writes in, or maybe Cazeric. Who knows?
Uh how can I get my homemade breakfast sausage to brown better without making it too sweet? I currently use roughly 25 grams, uh roughly 1% of brown sugar per five-pound batch. Use lactose or dextrose instead. You can add more for a given level of sweet. Or dry malt extract.
Uh yeah, I mean, DME, malt, but like in order for browning, I mean lactose should work, dextrose, both reducing sugars. You want to reduce sugar that is less sweet, right? So uh brown sugar is not that malt extract about half the sweetness of even dextrose. Yeah, but yeah, but I don't know. Like a darker yeah, I don't know it's browning capability on a PR in sausage.
I've never tested it. I mean, I've used DME in uh I've used DME or even just maltose in mashed potatoes before. You ever done that? Malted mashed potatoes? That's good.
You get dry DME powder and dry malt extract powder and you add it to mashed potatoes, that's good. That tastes good. You know what I mean? Oh my god, I haven't done it in so many years. I gotta start doing that again.
I don't stock DME anymore. Anyway, but uh also in terms of flavor, especially those like darker dry malt extracts, they do also have some of that flunkiness of a really dark brown sugar, like some some flavor overlap. So you know you could do a combination of like dextrose and a little dark DME if they wanted that like actual brown sugar flavor, you know. Well, I would say keep the keep the brown sugar if you like it, because it's easy to source, right? And then just dope it with dextrose, which is what the standard the standard thing that people do is.
You know, the standard thing that you add. Both in this case and also when you want microbes, you know what I'm saying? What in the Discord also mentioned um a slight uh pH adjustment, which would also help, but you just don't want to overdo it. Oh, I hate when it goes alkaline. Like all of the tricks where people baking soda their meat, I hate them.
You have to correct them afterwards. Like, unless, but like let's say we don't know the breakfast sausage, I'm assuming the breakfast sausage isn't allowed to age much, so you're not getting much of a pH drop. It is true that if it's gone acidic at all, it won't brown as easily, right? So for sure, that's 100% true. But like, like, I don't know, like you have to be super careful when you're alkal alkaline adjusting meats so that you can't so that you can't taste it.
You know what I mean? All of those tricks that people used to do where they would like add baking soda to the meats and then pressure cook them and get them real dark. I just never found that I liked them. Yeah, they got brown. You know what I mean?
Uh and then you would add like like acid to them afterwards to like, you know, undo what you have done. And I do it with beans sometimes to get them soft, right? And then you adjust it back with acid. And I guess you can't tell when it's done, but I just hate the soapy smell of them cooking with the with the with the baking soda. You get you know what I'm talking about.
Yeah. That weird soapy smell. And I think maybe I am more what's it called? What's the word? More triggered by it than some folk, maybe.
Yeah, maybe. Uh also, Sazrik wants to know what is the minimum temperature for pasteurization? I thought it was 55 C, but I've heard you say previously, uh, and other info indicates that lower is possible. Well, it depends on what you mean by pasteurize, right? Uh pasteurizes temperature and time.
The lowest numbers for pasteurization that are really available are 544 C, which is slightly below uh, you know, 131 F. But, you know, are lower numbers supportive of life? No. Like down to 52, stuff's not going to grow. However, you're not necessarily killing stuff at a reasonable rate either.
So pasteurization temperatures are always temperatures plus times, right? Uh, if you're talking about killing trichinosis, uh trichinosis at 52C is killed within 47 minutes, but you have to hold it at 47 C, uh, sorry, uh, yeah, 47 minutes once the center has come up to that temperature. Um Dr. Smokehouse uh says Has anyone heard of blood-baked bread? I just learned about it from Magnum Nielsen's Nordic Baking.
Uh it was a way to preserve harvested bread by baking the bread uh blood into biscuits and then drying it like hard tack. Uh these could be used later uh for simmering in a broth, freshly made. They remind me of New England brown bread. Dried and added to broth. It was not transformational, but would be a good sustenance on a cold winter's night.
I've heard of it, but never tried it. Blood bread. Apparently it doesn't taste irony or bloody uh when you're done. Uh Z Banks wants to know what is the best way to get fresh crisp cucumber flavor into cocktails? Is there a specific type of cucumber that is better for this?
I don't use the English ones. I think they're bitter, the seedless ones. I use the American ones that you know are standard cucumbers. I find them to be less bitter. My attempts tend to end up with too little taste, muddy or with green bitterness.
Peel them. The a lot of the uh bitterness is uh in in the peel, right? And you can either like infuse them. Remember, cucumber water is for customers. I don't know if you ever seen Better Call Saul, but like it will infuse eventually if you just put it into water.
It's not a strong taste, but it's there, in which case slicing finely is going to be your answer. Or just use an American cucumber and juice it. Uh be careful if you're going to carbonate because they can be somewhat foamy. Uh Francis says he's interested in having a or she is interested in having a home seltzer tap. I seen a recall Dave was using a linder product in his current setup, was wondering uh where I am today.
Linder appears to make a dry chiller plus carbonator line, which looks perfect, but it's 240 volts and only available in Europe. Um there's also the Kegland Benchy. Um or is it really the best option still a McCann carbonator, a cold plate and ice maker with a drain? All right, listen. Yes, the best option, uh uh I l my linder is loved by everyone in the family but me, because it makes one cup of seltzer dramatically, you know, the chiller very well.
Second and third cup, it's not chilling as fast as as I would want to, and chilling not chilling it is the enemy. I looked at their actual, like just in a box carbonator that takes like tap water in and uh what's it called? CO2 in and seltzer out. And it's gonna have the same problem because it doesn't have that much of a temperature drop in it. So they're using a lower pressure and a higher temperature.
And so I bet you the first cup you pull, fantastic. And the and like the next one you pull in 10 seconds, not as good. If you have the money in space, like a McCann with a bigger chiller, so that you're chilling more than just like you know, one cup is the way to go. I mean, ice ice tray is a pain in the butt, but they make chillers that are they're gonna they're gonna be better. The other way you could do it if you want to use this system is pre-chill the incoming water, like have the water being fill fill fed out of like a kegerator, and then it'll be good.
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